Newbie 570 - Game Over

[VampanezeHunter]

Random Vote: ting=)

-No real reason. He's the odd one out as he has a smiley face in his name! =P

[VampanezeHunter]

Have fun? Have fun? The people in our town are being picked off one by one by the mafia and you tell us to HAVE FUN?!

vote:Y

Yes that's the whole point! We have fun while killing people YAY!

[VampanezeHunter]

The vote count was a joke. It wasn't bolded, as you can see.

The problem of having a player in a situation that can get him lynched on page one is that either scum can kill him, or any one by mistake (Or a wrong choice of votes), and we'll have no way to know nor a lead for investigation. A kill in the first few pages is never good.

By the way, sorry about the "L-2" thing, but the last newbie I ICed had no problems with terminology.

Just to prove further this point is I was in a game where we ended up killing someone in 4 pages. That someone was me. Throught those 4 pages I was starting to suspect one of the IC's but they ended up getting me lynched. In the end town lost as they didn't have any evidence to go on. SO LET US NOT KILL ON THE FIRST PAGES. Not that we will XD

[VampanezeHunter]

I, too, dislike dragging games, but the connection between time and the number of pages isn't linear. What I mean is that getting to two pages may take longer in one game, than getting to six in another. A game with a good flow is a game on which everybody writes often.

As opposed to time, more pages means more posts, and more info.
Our goal is to lynch right, not to lynch fast. As long as there's activity and progress, the game will be enjoyable, even if we take more time before we lynch.

Lynching fast isn't good, since we need every bit of information we can get. The mafia, who have more information than we have, tend to try and deprive us from that information. The faster we lynch, the better it is for the mafia.

Because of that, in a normal game I'd accuse ting as a possible scum, but in this case I'll assume it was a mistake made by ignorance.

Amen to that!


Also I haven't played in a long time so do blame me for not being as helpful as Y.

On the issue of setting a target, my opinion is no. Like teachers say in school "Quality not quantity" I think that we should lynch with enough evidence to back it up. For example if we went to 6 pages, half of it being random talk, and we had to lynch we may not neccissarily have good evidence whereas if we waited till quailty evidence in 10 pages we may get a correct lynch! I would rather latter.

[VampanezeHunter]

EBWOP: Sorry bout that didn't think...Since TIng=) is a L-2 i will

Unvote: Ting=)

[VampanezeHunter]

I, on the other hand, won't let it slide. Vote: ting =)

You see, the number of pages don't matter. We have to have a discussion. Only then will somebody exhibit something suspicious, and only if somebody exhibits something suspicious, will we be able to justify any votes. If you don't know how to spot scumtells, or what these scumtells are, look at the wiki article called "Finding Scum."

This is in reply to Y and vampaneze too by the way. I already said that 6 was a suggestion, and if we want to have more discussion, we can always wait till later. The main purpose of me calling for 6 pages is so that we can avoid the occurance of a quicklynch. Maybe deadline was the wrong term though, since it implies lynching by page 6, but I can't think of what the correct term would be. 6 is the minimum I would consider good for a lynch, that's all I meant.

Also, like Y said, a quicklynch would only benefit scum. Calling for us to wait 6 pages before we lynch would completely take a quicklynch out of the equation. Granted, it's a wifom argument, but there you go.

Also, why all the hopping Korts? You seem to be taking every little thing as an excuse to attack someone.

Oh sorry didn't realise you were saying this. Yes 6 pages the very minimum but also I'm starting to think that we shouldn't lag on too long e.g 15pages. I think that 8-10 pages should be enough to get a good lynch. Thats just an estimate though.

For now the only suspicios thing that i see is the connection between Vampaneze and Korts. Vampaneze vote and unvote ting twice, and the second time unvote, Korts vote him. And i ask me, why? Only because ting =) want a lynch before page 6?
For Y, when i was "Fitting words to a theory"? I say only what is coming from my head while reading the post, i don't say: "Well, Y and mozsuggs are scum, try to find a connection".

Uum I don't hink I have voted Ting=) twice. I may have unvoted him twic but that is me being safe as I don't want a quicklynch. I am getting very confused about what you are saying about votes so I am not gonna continue on this.

[VampanezeHunter]

Uh by the way, V8cougar, those quotes are in the wrong order. The first quote is 28 but the latter is 24. This is a bit scummy to me as you haven't been incredibly careful with your reasoning and it could look like you are twisting his words and trying to make something out of it.

The vote is voting for the sake of voting. That makes you start to look desperate. As if you need to vote someone. That's what I'm seeing. This probably makes me look scummy defending TIng=) but until I get some solid evidence on anyone I won't vote them.

Maybe we should start talking about stuff other than when to lynch someone. JUst a suggestion.

Finally

FoS:V8COugar

[VampanezeHunter]

VampanezeHunter, it is obvious that the quotes are in the wrong order, since the whole post is written in the form of 'Ting wrote <quote> saying A, B and C, while referring to this post: <quote>, which said X, Y and Z'.

Your accusation has nothing to it, but it seems like you're trying too hard to make it look like there is. Both ting's behaviour and the ridiculous way you defend it seem scummy.

until I get some solid evidence on anyone I won't vote them.

You do know you can't vote for dead players, right?

Stop being sarcastic! I know you can't vote for a dead player. Now that I look back they were weak rasons but am I not allowed ro state my thoughts? If not then this game is crap. But I'm sure that is not true.

VampanezeHunter: You are right that the quotes are not in chronological order, but it's clear to me that the first quote is a later quote, as I say "Here is ting's post explaining his previous actions." The second one is obviously (to me) the original post.

I think my reasoning is fine. Granted, it's not a huge offense, but I did want to point it out. To me, placing vote 1 on a person with 4 needed to lynch is fine. I was monitoring the thread throughout the day and would have removed my vote if I thought a bandwagon was forming for no good reason (if people were using only my post as a reason to vote).

I would think placing a first vote for the sake of voting (with at least a speck of reason) is good early in the game. It allows for discussion like we're having now, which helps us make that first crucial vote. Of course, we don't want an ignorant bandwagon in a game this small, and anyone who votes after the first vote better have a good reason of doing so.

True. I was just warning of the ignorant Bandwagon. So actually yes your vote is fine now I look at it that way. Since we need some disscussion here is a reason to talk...

Vote:Y

for being sarcastic and I find using sarcasm to try and proove an argument sucks.

Mod:Prods?

[VampanezeHunter]

I think that I will

unvote.

There's no point keeping my vote on.

@Vampaneze Hunter: Why so snappy? Your vote on Y is technically omgus.

Yes it effectively is but if he wasn't being sarcastic then I wouldn't have voted for him.

A Fos to V8 Cougar, and then a vote for Y? Vampaneze are you sure? I find this scummy...

Fos VapanezeHunter

I don't actually. FoSing someone and then voting someone else is perfectly fine. It just menas they have found a better place for their vote than the other guy. Everyone does it. But because you find it scummy...

UnFoS: V8Cougar

[VampanezeHunter]

I don't mind now if you guys lynch me I'm town. So if you lynch me it'll be lylo. I have no proof but if you want to go ahead. I'll have no grudges. If only

I

had something to talk about. You guys can talk about me. I'm not unvoting. If Y hadn't used sarcasm then I wouldn't have voted but sarcasm is really annoying. SO do what you like.

[VampanezeHunter]

VampanezeHunter is the scummiest to me so far, if only because he's given us the most to go on. Acting very strange and essentially giving up with a "I don't mind if you lynch me". As an IC, he should have an idea of how to help the town, and that's not the way he's playing.

Just because I'm an IC doesn't mean I play the same way as everyone else. ALso I haven't played for a long time! I'm still rusty. I've finally senn how big I overreacted so

Unvote:Y

NOw back to scumhunting. I am going to direct over to mozzugs. He hasn't posted much at all and what little posts he has made haven't had much content. I have found out in many games I have played that one Scum member is very loyd and tries to direct the crowd and the other stays in the shadows and doesn't do too much. So

minor FoS:mozzugs

[VampanezeHunter]

Yea sorry for overreacting guys. I had a bad day and was angry. I would like to see mozzugs's opinion on everthing. Otherwise I haven't seen much at all. I totally agree with Ting's comments. I accept it's bad.

[VampanezeHunter]

I'm torn between VampanezeHunter and mozsuggs.

VampanezeHunter has been hopping and was using lame excuses for it, while mozsuggs has been lurking and just being anti-town.

Ting's "P6 Deadline" thing was completely forgotten, but it shouldn't be.

Btw for the millionth time I

haven't

vote hopped!!!!

This post will be written like this: Ting's quote followed by the way I, and I believe others, understand it.

ting =) wrote:
Not to sound impatient, but I'm not a very big fan of games that lag on for forever. How about we set a target, like - lynch by page 6? I think we should have a good enough feel of everyone by then to be able to decide who we think is scummiest.

"I want a deadline by page 6 because I don't like long games, and I believe we can do it without messing it up".

ting =) wrote:
This is in reply to Y and vampaneze too by the way. I already said that 6 was a suggestion, and if we want to have more discussion, we can always wait till later. The main purpose of me calling for 6 pages is so that we can avoid the occurance of a quicklynch. Maybe deadline was the wrong term though, since it implies lynching by page 6, but I can't think of what the correct term would be. 6 is the minimum I would consider good for a lynch, that's all I meant.

Also, like Y said, a quicklynch would only benefit scum. Calling for us to wait 6 pages before we lynch would completely take a quicklynch out of the equation. Granted, it's a wifom argument, but there you go.

"I didn't mean 'kill by page 6', but 'wait at least 6 pages'. You got me wrong on that one.
I called for at least 6 pages in order to prevent a quicklynch".

ting =) wrote:
I didn't want the game to drag on, so I felt a deadline would be nice. If all I wanted was just wanted a fast game, I'd have proposed page 3, or page 4. That would be too soon though, so I felt that page 6 was the minimum that would guarantee avoiding a quicklynch, while also not being so long as to drag on.

"I do wand to end the day by page 6, but not sooner, since it would be too quick".

ting =) wrote:
@Y. Fair enough. What do you want to discuss about it though? My first game ended with a town win after lynching on page 5, and then on page 7. I honestly thought, and still think, that 6 pages of discussion is enough for a lynch. It would be a fairly quick lynch in a big game, but with 7 players, I think 6 pages is enough. Any more than 6, and I feel that the day will drag on.

"I do want a 6-page deadline and it is, in fact, a good idea".

Could you please explain quote#2, then? It seems somewhat contradictory to the others.
I understand you want a lynch by P6, so here, you can help me with it: Vote: Ting=).

FOr once cn you stop personally attacking me. I know you're trying to be sublte. JUst because I got mixed up with the quotes doesn't mean you have to keep reminding me of it unless you found it scummy! Now I don't mind if I get lynched, t least it will stp personal attacks!

[VampanezeHunter]

I checked the game and I did get the impression you voted more than you actually did.

FOr once cn you stop personally attacking me. I know you're trying to be sublte. JUst because I got mixed up with the quotes doesn't mean you have to keep reminding me of it unless you found it scummy! Now I don't mind if I get lynched, t least it will stp personal attacks!

What?!

That post was aimed at ting. There's nothing there about you. Are you defensive because you got something to hide, or is it because an attack on ting makes you feel bad?

The first time you overreacted was exactly that - An overreaction. This post is actually ridiculous.
If I get your reaction correctly, you think I quoted ting to show you the way you misunderstood V8Cougar's post at the time, but not everything's about you. When I quote some one, I do it because I want to show exactly what he said, to show that my case is viable and based on real facts (As opposed to some one who hallucinates an attack and gets defensive).

Damnit. I messed up again. Ok you can kill me for messing up alot. I wont hve a grude against you. I see how you wrote it now. I thought it was a personal attack on me. Yep I won't defend myself. I really suck don't I?

[VampanezeHunter]

Ok from now on I shall remove myself emotinally from this game.

In reply to Mozuggs, not for now. I don't think a claim this early on is neccissary. If everyone else wants one the fine, but I don't agree as if cn eplain why you were absent then we may get some good talking subjects.

I think I have mentioned my opinions on lurking well tha's kind of the same here. Both Sidney and Korts, I think, could be scum having already talked at the beginning and are now trailing off hoping to avoid suspicion. Only a thought. But if right I should think only one of them would be scum. It''s quite unlikely for both scum members to do the same thing in a game.

[VampanezeHunter]

What means "claim"?

If you mean what does "Claim" mean, then it means that they say whether thay are town, cop, doc etc.

[VampanezeHunter]

Has no-one noticed my absense? Sorry for not posting I was clogged up with reading week. I've read through quickly but can people tell me their main reasons for suspecting mozuggs?

[VampanezeHunter]

Alright. Advice, a few points.

-don't state your innocence. prove it by helping find the real scum.
-read the first point thoroughly, again.
-and again.
-never feel secure. you're always the possible target of a lynch, therefore read the first point again.
-when joking, it's probably best if you try subtle. be sarcastic, not outright jerk.
-if you can avoid it, don't use "craplogic" i.e. don't make arguments that have no sense.

That's about it for now.

You see, young Korts, you were doing so well, and i was listening to you, until you called me a jerk. Thats not an effectiv method of communication-perhaps you are just not very bright.

More likely, I suspect, is that you are quite bright, but you enjoy bullying noobs cos you have played a few games of mafia-well done you, big boy.

If you want people to listen to you-be nice, be pleasant-or they wont.

OK? Now, be pleasant and i may well take your advice, because you clearly know a bit about this game.

I am starting to see why you guys suspect him. At the moment I'm playing the game "Innocent till proven Guilty" so that's mainly why I'm not voting(anymore...lol)
But to be honest I think, and maybe others, that when Korts metioned "jerk" he ment a style of behaviour. Not directed at mozuggs.

Hang on mate, I've lost you-when did i "misrepresent" your words?
Plus, I'm not entirely convinced logic plays a great part on day one-an awful lot of it seems to be randomish bandwagoning, and fair enough.
Naturally, I'm not keen on that bandwagon being me!

Here:

mozsuggs:

Contributed very little (If anything at all), and did some stupid moves. Either a bad mafia

or

a clueless noob.

This one means "He might be a new player, not mafia (This is the cause of his scummyness)".

ps someone said "or maybe he's a clueless noob"
er...guys, this IS a newbie game-of course i'm a noob!

Voting for me cos i'm a noob is a sure sign of scum-a quick easy lynch for scum.
Don't be dicks-if you are town, and you want to win, then don't vote for me.

"Some one voted me

because

I'm a new player. He's scummy for doing so".

As you can see, I haven't voted you at that point. While I used the newb aspect as an option besides you being scum, you changed it to mean that I thought you're scum because of you being new. Your point was that you being new, doesn't make you mafia (Which was my original point).

About logic: It plays a big part every day. On D!, it takes a few pages before we have enough info in order to start using logic.

I agree with Y on alot of this. Nothing more to say of that but about logic, we should really use from the beginning. As in be logical when you post. Take evidence and logically build a case and show everyone.


P.S: The tatic I mentioned earlier is a new tactic I have adopted.

[VampanezeHunter]

EBWOP: Oops I based that post on the end of page 6...sorry. Also post 156 i'm guessing when V8 said "you" he ment mozuggs? =?

[VampanezeHunter]

Sorry busy day again! It seems we mustn't have much to go on as we are now talking of what

could

happen. I'm not syaing there is anything wrong with that, but usually in games past, when tlk of probability leads to a confusing game. Not very sure on the details though.

Anyway I know this looks scummy but I believe that Y is right again, either a good scum-hunter or VERY good scum(if the latter we're dead), as if Korts [is] town then why did he include that he may be scum? I don't really find not leaving the bandwagon scummy.

In reply to Y earlier, it's a new tactic.

Official Vote Count

mozsuggs - 1 (Korts)

Korts - 1 (Y)
Y - 1 (mozsuggs)

Not Voting - 4 (sideney, ting =), V8Cougar, VampaneseHunter)

4 To Lynch

[VampanezeHunter]

I beleive Mozzugs and sidney to be scum. They are my main pair but also a WIFOM argument is that the other 2 are scum and are making the first pir look scummy. Well if the lattter is true then we're screwed. I'll wait until a definate descion for my vote...

[VampanezeHunter]

EBWOP: THe reason I find Mozz and sid scummy is the obviousness of the fact that scum would hammer by now. No reason not too.

[VampanezeHunter]

@V8cougar: what do you think?

Anyway at the moment I would vote SId but if I did this scum may hammer...
This sounds scummy but I would lynch Sid even if he was town for really crap town play. I know that I'm using sensible caution. ALthough this is stupid but mozzugs could be scum distancing himself.

[VampanezeHunter]

My views is that Sid is NOT the cop. Why not use that argument immediately? Even a newbie would use that for an argument. I am now 99% sure Sid is scum and 45% sure on mozzugs.

SO

Vote: Sidney

[VampanezeHunter]

SCREW THE GAME MAFIA!!!!!!!!!!!