Newbie 570 - Game Over

[Korts]

randomvote: V8Cougar

'cos I don't give a shit about cars.

[Korts]

I know random voting is fun and all, but that doesn't mean we should be reckless. Having a player on L-2 with two mafiosos isn't such a good idea.

L-2 means two votes from lynching. L-1 is one vote for a lynch, so on.

Y, an L-2 with two scum is actually good for town in a sense that if both the scum pile on recklessly and without forethought, we'd know who to lynch next day and the day after that. But, you're right that a pro-town lynch D1 causes LYLO (for newbies, LYLO is "lynch or lose" for short). So, for now,

unvote

On another note, why ask for a votecount four posts into the game?

[Korts]

mod: sorry, UnVote: V8Cougar

[Korts]

I guess it depends on the mod's rules, but it never hurts to include a name when you unvote.

[Korts]

Because of that, in a normal game I'd accuse ting as a possible scum, but in this case I'll assume it was a mistake made by ignorance.

I, on the other hand, won't let it slide.

Vote: ting =)

You see, the number of pages don't matter. We have to have a discussion. Only then will somebody exhibit something suspicious, and only if somebody exhibits something suspicious, will we be able to justify any votes. If you don't know how to spot scumtells, or what these scumtells are, look at the wiki article called "Finding Scum."

[Korts]

Second time? In which game? He randomvoted in post 2-3 or so, and unvoted just now.

FoS: Y

for being blind. Only scum are blind. Town have 20/20 vision. Therefore you are scum.

[Korts]

I'm still:

VOTE V8COUGAR

cos he voted for me, and thats how mature i am lol

mozsuggs, will you kindly stop saying (writing) lol?

[Korts]

Yep, indeed you did. Found your glasses?

>_>

<_<

Olé.

[Korts]

I'm not defending Vampaneze, it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on the game. Just pointing out factual errors. Vampaneze and thing may be scum together but there's nothing yet to point to it being so. Sideney, you seem very eager to point fingers early in the game. Are you hurrying anywhere?

Unvote: ting =)

FoS: sideney

[Korts]

No hopping. I unvoted you. Did I vote anyone else? No. No hopping.

[Korts]

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

[Korts]

Bit dazed, sorry if I make little sense.

Vote: Vamp

as he's playing erratically, bit suspicious. Will come back and reconsider once head clears.

[Korts]

Yeah, clear head now, vote stays.

First of all, being sarcastic isn't a scumtell. In my read, it is only the proof of a refined sense of humor. And I know this vote was only to start the discussion, but surely you can find something better to point at. If being sarcastic was a capital offense, we'd all be shot in the head. And twice in the chest. And then they'd sap our blood and cut our heads off with a rusty saw, just to be on the safe side. And the corpse incinerated. And the ashes shot into the sun. And the sun blown up.

A much more scummy act is the fiddling over the order of the quotes. I think it should be fairly obvious what V8 was saying. If it isn't, perhaps this isn't your game after all, or you need a strong coffee.

So vote stays.

[Korts]

Vamp: no need to get cavalier. You only have my vote, as far as I can tell.

Ting, what I'm doing is what I see to be the point of the game, i.e. scumhunting. If you don't like that, maybe there's a reason?

[Korts]

mozsuggs hasn't added anything, his only posts consisting of "lol" and "lynch already." For now,

Fos: mozsuggs

cos if I put him at L-2, ting's gonna freak out at me again...

[Korts]

Sorry, here. Forgot to post here cos there's a lot going on in another game of mine. Nothing much to add, though, really. Mozsuggs should add something, though, and with a little luck we'll be able to decide if he's a reluctant townie or lurking scum.

Vamp, you're acting very erratic, I really don't see why.

V8Cougar seems pro-town, for now, although that's not very hard when the pressure's elsewhere.

Y, pretty much the same as V8.

Ting, I'm not sure about. I've got my eye on him.

Sideney's italian approach to english is getting a bit on my nerves, but he hasn't actually said much.

Korts, he's very pro-town. I mean, look at him. No doubt.

That's pretty much all I have now.

[Korts]

Sideney, a cop won't--or at least, shouldn't--claim cop Day 1, because the scum will know it isn't one of them fakeclaiming, therefore he will be the target Night 1. A cop, if pressed to claim, should claim townie, in my opinion, but of course, this is where it gets subjective.

For this reason, mafia won't claim cop either, because the real cop wouldn't. A townie may claim cop to draw the N1 kill, but that townie also draws suspicion D1, therefore more likely to be lynched before he can draw the N1 kill.

So Day 1, you probably won't see a cop claim.

On the other hand, claiming mafia is a very rarely seen tactic. In fact, according to the wiki, there's only one documented case. The fact that it worked that one time doesn't mean it always works. Actually, my guess is it wouldn't work 99% of the time.

Don't expect anyone to claim what they really are, Sideney. This is a game where a part of the people are trying to fool you. They won't suddenly tell you they were lying all along. A claim is something to go by, additional info which you can choose to believe. But a claimed cop is just that: claimed. He can still be scum just 'cos he said he's cop.

[Korts]

Well, we don't seem to have anything to go on. I'm for lynching the most suspicious player at the moment, and we'll have more to go by D2.

I find mozsuggs' actions the scummiest yet, so

unvote: Vamp

vote: mozsuggs

[Korts]

This puts him at L-2. Mozsuggs, no need to claim, if you have any sense you'll claim townie anyway.

[Korts]

@ting =)
mozsuggs has been actively lurking from the beginning. He has shown inclination towards a quicklynch without any reasons (I mean the "let's lynch somebody already" post) and has refused to participate in the scumhunting.

On the other hand, Vamp has been contibuting some, althoug he played very emotionally, taking everything as a personal offense. His cavalier attitude is much less of a tell than mozsuggs' tells.

[Korts]

I see your point now, that i'm trying to deflect suspicion on to others.

No, that's not WIFOM. Have you read 1984? Remember doublethink? It's like when people say this and this is what scum would never do, so scum start doing it, but if they do it, it's because they're scum doing what scum would "never do". And so scum wouldn't try it, knowing they'll seem like they're trying too hard to look townie, therefor it would be something scum would never try. And so on. Get it?

Anyway, mozsuggs, there is a way of contributing day one. You look at posts, and find holes in logic or suspiciously oh-so-pro-town exclamations or something. You don't lurk around waiting for scum to raise their hands.

On this "I'm noob" topic, this isn't an excuse for staying in the background. And you don't say "it's a mistake to vote me, guys" when you get votes. You try to argue. You explain things that made people suspicious of you.

@ting: I' trying a new playstyle. You know, agressive, niggling, stuff. Guess it's not a huge success.

[Korts]

Ok, I'll let someone else explain why a no-lynch is bad. I'm too tired to, now, cos I just wrote a pagelong post in another game. Basically, it all comes down to statistics.

[Korts]

A) "Voting me is bad" isn't gonna prove your innocence.

2) No-one knows for sure you're townie, therefore no townies will answer your call of "townies unite and lynch everyone on my wagon" especially because if you look at the numbers, it means two scum tops, and one townie minimum.

III) Be funny all you want, but BE funny. Not by saying "lol" a lot.

Four)

This serioudsly feels like a witch hunt now-ANYTHING i say is being taken against me.

That's mafia for you. We take your words apart to see what makes them tick.

E) Either learn to play or stop frothing at the corner of your mouth. Preferably both.

6) We treat you like a noob because you act like one.

[Korts]

I'm guessing you are a 13 year old pimply TWAT-why are you being so agressive?

I'm guessing you're wrong. About why I'm so agressive, I'm trying a new playstyle. We'll see at the end of the game how it worked out.

And i dont know how many times i have to say it-yes, I am a"noob"-but that has no bearing on whether i am guilty or innocent.

Who said you're guilty cos you're noob?

This IS me learning to play, you half wit-how else can you learn without playing.?

Then please try to help by listening to advice. I don't mean to insult you, I want to find scum. Where I'm looking at the moment (you) has no personal bearing.

If you are town, you are being a fool.

Hey, man, I'm suspicious of you. Therefore I put pressure on you. I think you easily may be scum. Does this make me a fool? Don't be an idiot.

But the alternatives arent great either.

Alternatives as in answering the attacks with logical statements, do exist. Aren't they great? No? Well, you can lurk, you can play raving madman, or you can sit down and argue. Your choice, of course.

Now, sorry if this sounds agressive again. I want to be of help in learning, but on the other hand I'm not at all convinced about your innocence.

[Korts]

Alright. Advice, a few points.

-don't state your innocence. prove it by helping find the real scum.
-read the first point thoroughly, again.
-and again.
-never feel secure. you're always the possible target of a lynch, therefore read the first point again.
-when joking, it's probably best if you try subtle. be sarcastic, not outright jerk.
-if you can avoid it, don't use "craplogic" i.e. don't make arguments that have no sense.

That's about it for now.

[Korts]

And you're telling me I'm patronizing you?

By jerk, I meant this. (I know this is funny by your standards, but still. I'm a stuck-up twat, you know.)

I'm guessing you are a 13 year old pimply TWAT

[Korts]

But your point about my humour really has nothing to do with this game.

Agree. I have a sense of humor too, just not one like this. I don't appreciate your jokes, you don't appreciate mine. Fine by me. Waste no more words on this.

ENTIRELY BASELESS accusations.

Don't agree. Everything I said is based on clear logic.

[Korts]

I apolgise for that remark, it was over the top.

Oh don't worry, I've had worse. By the way, if you feel insulted by anything I said, I apologize. But I'm very suspicious of you nonetheless.

[Korts]

Just made a quick read through, no time. I have gotten a headache. I also need to read through again. This is the messiest thing ever. Mosz, could I please have your previous game numbers? Do you have any finished games, or at least games where you're dead already? Do you always play this way? I also don't like kort's 'i'm trying a new playstyle, that's all' excuse, but mosz far outdoes that. more post later. sorry.

It's not an excuse, it's a statement. But meta me if you want, I've tried "don't give a shit" and "calm 'n' logical" in other games.

[Korts]

I wonder if the sense of humour is a Yank thing-any Brits here? I was just having a laugh, cos its a game-hardly anything is "inappropriate" (apart from abusing people i guess!)

I'm an American and I like British comedy. There are plenty of situations where what you'd be doing is funny (although Korts might disagree), but it's not helpful. It's sending out mixed messages from someone on the brink of being lynched.

There can be situations where mozsuggs would be funny, but this isn't it. I like Brit-coms too, most of them, but mozsuggs I don't find greatly humorous. No problem with having a laugh, though some people might not get your jokes, but there's a time and a place for it. The so-called random stage is for that. Otherwise, it helps to be serious, at least mostly.

[Korts]

Do you really want to know what's going on? Well, I tried something:
I gave enough reasons for people to vote mozsuggs and put him on L-1 (That's one vote short of a lynch) to see who will take the opportunity to drop the hammer (Yep, mozsuggs, I gambled with your life. Sorry?). No one did.
What did we learn? We have one of two options:
1. mozsuggs is, in fact, scum, who's partner didn't want to kill.
2. The two players before me on the wagon (sideney and Korts) are. If they weren't the last mafia would have taken the kill (It was too easy to miss).

Since Korts has been hopping from one player to the other until he suddenly decided to leave his vote on mozsuggs with sideney, I think he'll be our best option at the moment.

I truly believe Korts to be scum, but if he turns out to be town (Although I really doubt it), we know mozsuggs is the scum.

That said,

Unvote, Vote Korts

.

One problem with this plan. I, of course, am assuming that I am town, therefore it would go like this, if you lynch me. Town will be in LYLO Day 2, and assuming mozsuggs is scum (will elaborate later why it would be possible for both of us to be town) and you lynch him, Day 3 there will be
two town and one scum, and you only have a 33% chance of lynching right. Unless, of course, someone is confirmed. Damn, I'm not going through with the possibilities of who the cop investigates and when, and what he should do, but assuming the cop decides to not confirm anyone, this is what will happen once you lynch me and mozsuggs is scum.

Back to your two options, there are two more.
3. I am, in fact, town, convinced of mozsuggs' guilt, and the two scum on his wagon are sideney and Y, and when no hammer comes, though it could've, you (Y) come up with the quoted post to have me lynched and yourself cleared, all the while throwing your partner under the bus by hinting he and I are scumpartners.
4. Scum wasn't on mozsuggs' wagon, or only one of them, while the other was watching, because if there wouldn't be a hammer, they could blame me.

[Korts]

@ Korts: You're saying there are other options, but you don't go through with cop investigations and further planing? You don't even follow real logic (You say you're town, I get you lynched, I get cleared?).

I didn't go through with cop investigations because it only occured to me that moment that the cop's info could change the outcome. Anyway, that wasn't the point that I wanted to stress.

If you get me lynched, and I turn up scum, you're cleared, because you've just lynched... wait, that really is shit. Sorry, dunno how that got there. Still, the rest is valid.

If you're going to try and lynch a townie, you should seek easier targets.

This setup is no fun, when everyone claims townie. Anyway, I'm going after my suspicions, not by judging the easiness of targets.

[Korts]

You're actually considering the option of you showing up scum? That's a good thing to know.

You're twisting my words. Of course, the fact that you can should mean something, but still.

You didn't go through with the cop investigation because they would change outcome... That's interesting... Why would you deprive the town the knowledge of the cop actually helping us win if we lynch you?

Oh no, guy, you're not doing that, are you? No point in rolefishing here, it's too open a setup. I will claim townie, no other. God, this setup sucks, don't it?

You're attacking me, but still voting mozsuggs? Even sideney got out of that wagon. Don't you want to hop on some one else's wagon, as you did all day?

I'm not attacking you, or at least I wasn't trying to. Just wanted to reply to your attacks. As far as the vote goes, I'm still pulling towards mozsuggs being scum.

[Korts]

Prob best if I just admit I am scum.

Sorry, is this your idea of a joke again, or do you want to go?

[Korts]

I'm still absolutely GAGGING for a lynch.

Looks like the conversation's slowed down. When I sober up, I'm gonna go do a reread, until then, vote stays where it is.

[Korts]

You didn't go through with the cop investigation because they would change outcome... That's interesting... Why would you deprive the town the knowledge of the cop actually helping us win if we lynch you?

Oh no, guy, you're not doing that, are you? No point in rolefishing here, it's too open a setup. I will claim townie, no other. God, this setup sucks, don't it?

You're straw-manning (Misrepresenting statements in order to make up a basis for an accusation). I wasn't asking you to claim. Nor the cop.
What I was really saying is that you showed the town how bad it will be if they follow my plan, but you left out, on purpose, the fact that the cop's investigations will help the town, making my plan not as flawed as you tried to make it seem.

Oh, hey. Didn't notice this post.

I wasn't asking you to claim. Nor the cop.

As far as I see, that's what you were doing, you were fishing for my role. You were trying to imply that by lynching me, the cop's investigations would be out of the question. Despite the fact that the setup allows me to claim only townie. Not that I would be anything else, of course.

you left out, on purpose, the fact that the cop's investigations will help the town

I left it out cos I was lazy. Still, it could happen that the cop won't be able to help the town: he can be roleblocked, nightkilled, and lynched, who knows?

making my plan not as flawed as you tried to make it seem.

This plan is based on the assumption that my alignment is different from mozsuggs'. What if we're both town, or just assuming I come up scum, which won't happen (don't start, I'm thinking from your viewpoint) how can you be sure I wasn't trying to throw mozsuggs under the bus?

[Korts]

You know, mozsuggs, that was actually funny. To clarify, throwing someone under the bus, or otherwise bussing someone, is a thing scum occasionally do, to clear themselves of suspicion: they get their scumpartner lynched, or at least argue with them, and so town won't think they are scumpartners.

[Korts]

Really? Where, exactly, was I asking your, or any body else's, role?

You weren't asking for it, you were implying I was cop.

Opportunistically lazy. How can the cop be blocked?

Right, didn't check the setup. Alright.

If you're both scum, then we're at a much better state tomorrow after lynching you. I don't rule out the possibility of you trying to kill your partner, but killing at least one is good enough for D1.
If you were partners, you would be happy having the chance to get off your partner.
If both of you are town (Which I really doubt), and the cop gets nothing, the mafia played such a good game and they deserve to win.

If we were partners, I would be happy to hop back off the wagon ASAP? That's WIFOM, of course. Plus, you don't know my playstyle as scum. The rest I have to agree with.

If both of you are town (Which I really doubt), and the cop gets nothing, the mafia played such a good game and they deserve to win.

You seem, just a little bit, to be praising yourself.

[Korts]

Sorry Korts, you're dead. No talking for dead ppl in twilight. - Mod

[Korts]

Oh, and go town.

[Korts]

Hey, nice game. Everyone was pretty good, except Vamp... WTF? I'd have hammered without a second thought. Guess you're a bit rusty still.

V8-very nicely played. Textbook play. Hats off, mate.
Y, you were good, too, I wasn't very sure of you until sid's claim, until then you were playing just like I did Day 1. I guess I need to work some more on this agressive playstyle.
ting, kudos. I had hoped after my lynch that at least you get to see D2, I was 100% sure of you being town and so on and so forth.
Mozsuggs, tone down a bit on the joking, I guess I was a bit dry ingame, your humor isn't half bad, though not really my style. Keep it up, though, and we'll make a scumhunter out of you yet.
Vamp... yeah.

VRK

good modding.

[Korts]

mozsuggs was too funny to be scum

Yeah, don't let that fool you, he's a wily one.

Vote: mozsuggs

[Korts]

@ V8, I believe you could easily counter claim cop, saying mozsuggs is scum, or something. No one would suspect. You could even say sideney was scum and it would probably swing the lynch. Good game anyway.

Or, you could say you had an innocent on Vamp or mozsuggs, and you didn't want to claim with an innocent investigation, in lylo. You'd have the confirmed innocent on your side, and it'd be even easier to get sid lynched than claiming a guilty investigation.