Newbie 509 - Game Over

[Rishi]

Vote: Tenebrys

Random.Org told me so.

By the way, I'm one of your ICs. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I am also a player in this game, so I am trying to win. But, I won't intentionally give you bad advice.

[Rishi]

And to answer cepi's question, I think spurgistan is the other IC.

[Rishi]

I

nexperience-

C

hallenged player (Essentially, not a newbie, each newbie game has 5 newbies and 2 IC players)

I see. Is it also true that our ICs are split? I mean, one of them is scum and the other is town?

Oh, and BTW I think we have 3 ICs here.

Who do you think is the third?

[Rishi]

hmmm, only cepi needs to vote till night begins

No, that's not true. Night begins when someone has reached a majority. That means that, until one person reaches four votes, night will not begin.

I figured when you put the second vote on Tenebrys, it was probably just random. But now, if you're thinking that once everyone has voted, the majority person gets lynched, then perhaps there was more to that second vote.

Unvote, Vote: Dean Harper

[Rishi]

Inexperience-Challenged player (Essentially, not a newbie, each newbie game has 5 newbies and 2 IC players)

I see. Is it also true that our ICs are split? I mean, one of them is scum and the other is town?

Oh, and BTW I think we have 3 ICs here.

Who do you think is the third?

I think the one with a extremely difficult name is. --

FoS : Xylthixlm

Or it is too obvious or I'm missing something.

Xylthixlm has been registered on this site for a long time, but this is his first game on here.

I assume from the sig that he has played on other sites. However, I have played occasionally on other sites, and have found that the style of play is very different.

[Rishi]

Xylthixlm has been registered on this site for a long time, but this is his first game on here.

I assume from the sig that he has played on other sites. However, I have played occasionally on other sites, and have found that the style of play is very different.

I play on the MTGS chat mafia (#mafia@irc.globalgamerscenter.net), which is very different from forum mafia. Games rarely last longer than 30 minutes or so.

Game experience does count, so I wouldn't consider you a newbie. I mostly play on here and face-to-face. The games are VERY different. But, I find that playing face-to-face makes me a better forum player and vice versa.

[Rishi]

I think people need to get avatars. I can't tell anyone apart.

[Rishi]

Heres a vote count:

DH: 3
Mispeled: 0
Tenebrys: 1
Cepi: 0
Xyl: 1
Spurg: 1
Rishi: 1

I didn't check if this was right, but an official vote count would also be helpful.

I wonder if JDodge lurks as a mod as much as he does when playing. Hmm.

Unvote

I don't want someone to suddenly drop the hammer on Dean Harper before we get more information. As Mispeled said, Dean Harper is very newbish and might not be scum.

[Rishi]

Sorry for the double post. As far as what Dean Harper said, it's true. I do tend to hold back in the first few pages a little and drop small, probing questions. Don't worry - I will start participating more as the game develops.

[Rishi]

Umm, guys. I just didn't want Dean Harper to be at three votes. A little pressure would still be helpful to get information. EVERYONE doesn't have to unvote.

[Rishi]

And cepi and Tenebrys continue to not have avatars.

[Rishi]

I go away for a day and the game explodes.

I will read all the new posts later today and put up a post with some actual content. Have to get some work done now.

[Rishi]

Hey, spurgistan. I hate metagaming, but you'll notice I have been somewhat absent from all my games, so I'm sorry if I have been away. Parents in town, etc.

Tenebrys's post 89 caught my attention. Pretending to give an opinion on the other players, but all of it is fairly wishy-washy analysis without any conclusions.

I am starting to get the impression from Dean Harper that he just wants to PLAY and is getting a little too excited, which explains the vote hopping and trying to get someone lynched. Occasionally, you'll see newbies who have no idea about the slow pacing of these games, and they get eager and impatient.

That's as much meaningful content I have right now. More after the Thanksgiving weekend, probably.

[Rishi]

I suppose I'm not very good at handling stupid newbies; on IRC we generally just keep lynching them until they stop acting stupid, generally two or three games (which take 5-10 minutes each). I also tend to have an aggressive play style, since putting a lot of pressure on someone and watching the reactions tells you a lot about everyone else.

Sorry for the semi-lurking, all. To be honest, nobody has done much to catch my attention. Feel free to direct questions at me. If anyone wants to do a meta-read on me, you'll find that I am usually quiet on Day 1.

Just because a newbie is stupid does not mean they are scum. (And I don't know if I agree that Dean Harper is "stupid" - so I'm talking more in theoretical terms.) The funny thing is, the more you play, it becomes easier to differentiate between newbie town play and newbie scum play. That was the purpose of the pressure vote on Dean Harper. I think he came out of it looking pro-town.

Newbies tend to learn eventually. But it's more useful to determine whether they are town or scum than to lynch them for policy reasons. We have too much time and effort invested in this game to do that. (If these games lasted 5-10 minutes, or even 5-10 days, I would be in favor of lynching idiots just for its own sake.)

In case it hasn't been pointed out, the newbie setup is pure brutality. If there is a doctor save or some other weirdness, we get extra time, but generally speaking, we will have three lynches in this game. Two of them have to be correct or the town loses.

[Rishi]

I will repeat what cepi said, since it was buried in a lot of text.

LYNCH OR LOSE. DO NOT VOTE.

If a townie votes for another townie, the Mafia could both jump on the vote to auto-win the game.

[Rishi]

Yeah. I want to hear something from those who lynched. I didn't even know what happened.

By the way, in lynch-or-lose, if there's a cop with a guilty result, he should probably claim. If there's a cop with an innocent result, that's his choice. But, he should say something if he knows we're going to lynch a townie.

[Rishi]

Agreed. Waiting for them too. Hope they dont take too long to come with a reasonable explanation. I expected to find a Dean Harper post, but no, so I think we'll just have to wait.

You were on the lynch as well. You can participate in the conversation.

[Rishi]

Fun fact: Xyl is the only player that was both on the Dean Harper bandwagon (which got to L -1) and the Tenebrys bandwagon.

[Rishi]

Thanks, Xyl. You are correct. It was an oversight on my part, but it brings up an interesting point - spurgistan posted after my "fun fact" and didn't say anything about my mistake.

Also, I don't find Xyl on Tenebrys's wagon that suspicious. He was the first vote there and the lynch happened so fast that he can't be blamed for not unvoting.

I'm not so sure about spurgistan though, who put the L -1 vote. I actually find that vote more suspicious than Dean Harper's hammer, since it's obvious that DH actually made an effort to find out where the vote count was at, but miscounted. (As evidenced by DH's unvote.) I really hate using the argument that an IC should know better, because I've met some really dumb ICs. But spurgistan, as far as I know (haven't played with him before) is not a really dumb IC. So he should have known better.

What do the rest of you think?

[Rishi]

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

???

You care to back that up?

[Rishi]

Hey folks. Sorry for my absence. I have been very busy lately, and the fact that I was not posting in this thread has nothing to do with avoidance and everything to do with the fact that I didn't want to post without devoting proper time to this thread.

One thing that I see over and over again is that people tend to pile up on someone who is absent. Being absent from a thread has absolutely nothing to do with alignment. Occasionally, someone will be absent from the thread for all sorts of reasons,

most of which have nothing to do with the game.

If I say that I have not been around do to real life concerns, I want you all to accept that and not metagame it. In my experience, no good comes out of metagaming. I used to play like that, and then I got tired of being wrong. If there are any other questions directed towards me that I missed, please repeat them and I will be happy to answer them.

I am going to reiterate that spurgistan's vote to put Tenebrys at L-1 was more scummy than Dean Harper. If you look at DH's posts, he is a follower. Which could be a scumtell (often scum try to find townies to agree with). DH rarely comes up with original thoughts or opinions. He was voting for Tenebrys because it was the "cool thing" to do.

But, here's the thing that might make spurgistan seem less scummy. I am the only living player who did not vote for Tenebrys. That means (since I know I'm a townie - I know you can't accept that blindly, but I have to write from my own perspective) that BOTH scum were on the lynch. Usually, it's a bad idea for scum to follow other scum.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the order of the lynch was Xyl (early), then cepi, spurgistan and Dean Harper. Now, spurgistan knows better than to follow his partner on Day 1 than that (I would think). Dean Harper, on the other hand, is the follower. I know, for a fact, that spurgistan knows better than to vote for someone immediately (in the next couple posts) after his partner. So, I think, if spurgistan was scum, his partner is either Xyl (spurg forgot about Xyl's vote) or DH (DH followed spurg's vote). I don't know if I find either of these scenarios likely.

As for cepi, no idea. All the aggression has not put him on the defensive at all, so it's tough to gauge his alignment. I'll do a readthrough on cepi at some point and see if I can come up with some questions.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and makes me want to lynch you. Either as a townie or as Mafia, you should not want to be lynched. We can afford a little aggression on Day 1, but in a lynch-or-lose situation, it's not helpful.

Here's a question, cepi. Your playstyle on Day 2 is significantly different than Day 1. Why?

[Rishi]

A recent study showed that people tend to interpret a lack of information about another person in the most favorable way. My experience on IRC shows the same applies to Mafia. I counteract it by taking silence as a sign that someone is trying to hide something.

That may be true on IRC, but here I think the opposite is true. Most players on here seem suspicious of people who don't contribute, even if that lack of contribution has no correlation to the game.

[Rishi]

This isn't an accusation, Rishi, I really like hearing you post. But would you agree that the correct play for scum here, as they're on the verge of winning with no evidence of power roles thus far, would be to sit back and let the townies yell at each other?

Well, yeah. That would be smart. And I realize I have been the least active as of late, but I am hoping that will change.

[Rishi]

I actually agree with spurgistan. If cepi is scum, he's hardcore distancing himself from people. There's no logical partnership for him, except maybe Xyl.

[Rishi]

Well, yeah. That would be smart. And I realize I have been the least active as of late, but I am hoping that will change.

Fun fact : Rishi had been posting in all his other games but this.

In all my other games? Really? How many games do you think I'm in? Did you count? Did you read my posts or did you just quickly scan "Find all posts by Rishi"?

I told you that the metagaming argument is not a good one. And I'm telling you that not to save myself or to try to manipulate the system. I say that from EXPERIENCE. This is general advice that has nothing to do with the game. And if you're not trying to learn anything, get out of the newbie game.

The fact is you're making a bad argument. The posts in my other games have been 1-2 sentence responses. Even if I don't have time to post, I do read my games. If there's something that I can contribute that I think is worthwhile in a short response, I am going to do it. I knew that this game required a longer and more detailed response. So I waited until I had the time to post such a response. And if you bothered to read any of the other posts, you would see that I did mention in other threads that I didn't have time to post something more cogent.

As for cepi, no idea. All the aggression has not put him on the defensive at all, so it's tough to gauge his alignment. I'll do a readthrough on cepi at some point and see if I can come up with some questions.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and makes me want to lynch you. Either as a townie or as Mafia, you should not want to be lynched. We can afford a little aggression on Day 1, but in a lynch-or-lose situation, it's not helpful.

I have the feeling this last two paragraphs contradict each other. So do u have an idea of my alignment (paragraph1) or do I seem scummy to u (paragraph 2)?

I'm not attacking you. The paragraphs do not contradict each other. You could be an aggressive (and bad) player that happens to be a townie.

When I say it makes you seem scummy, I am talking about how I expect people to react. I can see past that and note that you just don't know what you're doing. You think that you're going to get somewhere by coming out with guns blazing. What you're actually doing is hijacking the thread with your tunnel-vision on me and DH. You're allowing spurg and Xyl to sit back and watch us go at each other's throats. If either (or both) of them is scum, you're handing them the game. (By the way, since you've shown your reading skills are not up to par, this is not an accusation - it's a hypothetical situation.)

But, what you are doing is trying to trigger an emotional response in the other players by posting intentionally incendiary responses. You seem to think that scum is going to jump and react to that. The fact is that, when you use your style of play, townies who are innocent resent being accused and react emotionally.

So, if you are town, I am asking you to please stop. It's distracting and annoying.

[Rishi]

cepi -- Let me see if I can explain myself better. It seems that you are trying to provoke an emotional response out of me, and, when playing emotionally, I would be inclined to push for your lynch for the reason that you're frustrating to play with. I am not some robot that is above reacting negatively to being provoked - regardless of whether I am an IC or not. You don't have to sit back. You can ask probing, insightful questions without getting all riled up. In fact, I thought your last post was quite appropriate.

As for what I think of Dean Harper, didn't Xyl point out that this is his first game? It's just that he replaced into another one after joining this one. If he replaced into the game, he might have missed the IC and FoS discussion, which usually occurs on Day 1. There are definitely things I find suspicious about Dean Harper (I don't think he can ever be truly absolved for the hammer, for example), but not knowing the terminology isn't one of them.

Xyl -- I didn't say that you and cepi were scum. I said that, if cepi were scum, you're the only person I could see as his partner. He's distancing a bit much from me and Dean Harper (no votes yet - but we're in a lynch-or-lose situation so it makes sense). Also, spurgistan's vote on Tenebrys came so soon after cepi's that I doubt that spurgistan would follow his scumbuddy so closely.

[Rishi]

Fun fact : Guess which two players suggested role claiming. (IMO, a bad idea)

If there is a cop with a guilty result, he SHOULD claim now so that we're guaranteed to lynch Mafia. A cop with an innocent result to claim to derail a mislynch, but otherwise, claiming is a bad idea. A doctor should NOT claim.

Why do you think it's a bad idea?

Rishi, What are u trying here? Why are u trying to subtly contribute with this "Rishi and Cepi are scumpartners" theory? My last post was like all others before it (inappropiates according to ur lurking gamestyle).

1. I am telling the truth. You should try it once in a while.

2. My absence from the game has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME ITSELF. I WAS ABSENT DUE TO OTHER ISSUES. I am not lurking now and nor do I intend to lurk for the rest of the game. I see that you are going to continue to spout the same rhetoric no matter what people say. The fact that you keep bringing up an argument that is no longer true and was not that strong to begin with leads me to believe that you are intentionally not worried about actual probing and just pushing hard to get me lynched. I wasn't sure about your alignment before, but now I am getting scummy vibes.

Waiting for his analysys. All I can say its wrong. Rishi is my principal suspect (besides DH) and if his following posts keep bopthering me Ill be the first one puting my vote on him.

Were you trying to say "analysis"? Also, it's "principle" unless you think I am really the head of that junior high that you go to. I'm not sure what "bopthering" is, but I assure you that I'm not doing that to you, nor would I ever want to. Also, if your going to be "puting" your vote, please turn your head first.

Anyway, what do the rest of you think? As I said, I think Xyl is cepi's only possible scumpartner. So, of course Xyl is agreeing with him. I like how Xyl put me at the top of his suspect list and threw in "cepi" for some possible distancing.

I think spurgistan is making more sense. The main thing I found scummy about him before was the fact that he did put the L -1 vote on Tenebrys when he should have known better. I think DH's hammer was an honest mistake. Given JDodge's infrequent vote counts and the amount of time between Xyl's vote and cepi's, it looks bad but it's forgivable.

I think cepi's Mafia profile fits perfectly. He starts off the day going after spurg and DH (for L -1 and the hammer...) completely dodging the question about why his vote was on Tenebrys as well. Then, seeing an opportunity when I started posting less, and came after me. Then he used inflammatory language to try to provoke me into emotional play because, yes, I will admit that emotional play does look scummy. But, often it's the provoker (not the provokee) that's actually scummy.

And before cepi says I'm flip-flopping, I wasn't convinced he was scum before this last post. Same bad arguments over and over....

[Rishi]

If there is a cop with a guilty result, he SHOULD claim now so that we're guaranteed to lynch Mafia. A cop with an innocent result to claim to derail a mislynch, but otherwise, claiming is a bad idea. A doctor should NOT claim.

Why do you think it's a bad idea?

Read this. I couldnt have put it better myself :

And no, DH, a mass-claim (what I think you asked for) would not at all be a good thing, now. We need to lynch one of the scumlords today, or the game is lost. If we manage to pull that off today(40% odds, although I can obviously call that 50% if we don't lynch me) we go into tomorrow with either 3 townies : 1 scum or 2:1, depending on whether or not we get a doc protection (3:1 against). Also, the cop's investiagation becomes incrementally more powerful as the players dwindle. If we have a power role survive the night, that basically wins the game for town. Anyways, in a c-9 game a mass-claim is essentially worthless, as there are only 3 roles with no character names to claim, and anybody can claim vanilla. All that will do is add five posts with everybody claiming vanilla.

See, this is where your arguments are very, very weak. Did I ever suggest a mass claim? A mass claim is a really bad idea. All I am saying is that a cop with a guilty claim should claim, so we're guaranteed to hit scum today. A cop with an innocent result SHOULD CLAIM to derail a mislynch, because we automatically lose if we lynch someone we know is innocent. A doctor should not claim.

THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MASS CLAIM AND HAVING ONE POWER ROLE CLAIM IN LIMITED SITUATIONS. YOU ARE EITHER BLATANTLY MANIPULATING THE FACTS OR WORSE, YOU ARE EITHER NOT READING OR NOT UNDERSTANDING.

2. My absence from the game has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME ITSELF. I WAS ABSENT DUE TO OTHER ISSUES. I am not lurking now and nor do I intend to lurk for the rest of the game. I see that you are going to continue to spout the same rhetoric no matter what people say.

Ok. I can understand this. What I dont understand is that u did post in other games. 0ne or two lignes. I dont care. Why didnt u do this here? Why did u

totally

ignore us? Your lurking IMO, its extremely scummy. Then, u and Spurgistan had an interesting chat where u kinda defended the lurking (Ok, Ok, the "I dont have time for

this

game") situation.

You're acting like I was gone for two weeks or something. I didn't post for FIVE DAYS. I knew I would be able to post before it got to be too long. I was in a newbie game that lasted over six months. Five days isn't that long in the scheme of things.

And we just proved in this game the problem with attacking the player who is not contributing. Look what happened when people started piling on Tenebrys for lurking.

Thats what we basically were doing until Xyl kinda shows his interest in my case. Guess what u posted in the following post. A subtle attack on spurgistan and myself. Not so obvious, just throwing the suspicions. maybe trying to get a little help from Xyl. Probably.

I've probably suspected everyone in this game at one point or another, except for Mispeled and Tenebrys (I did suspect Tenebrys briefly in one post) - the two confirmed townies. I think if you look at everyone's posts, they have suspicions on every living player. I couldn't find any place where you suspected Xyl, though.

Were you trying to say "analysis"? Also, it's "principle" unless you think I am really the head of that junior high that you go to. I'm not sure what "bopthering" is, but I assure you that I'm not doing that to you, nor would I ever want to. Also, if your going to be "puting" your vote, please turn your head first.

Im not going to respond to this because its so stupid and irrelevant to the game. I dont understand why u as an IC are trying to play so dirty. Its obvious english is not my first language. In fact, its my fourth and Im just learning it.

I sincerely apologize for this. I had no idea that English was not your first language as this is the first time you've mentioned it and you don't have your location field filled out. I figured, since you continued to mock me with the "Fun fact" things, I would resort to an immature attacks.

But it does bring up a point - ICs are not perfect or better than newbies. They are just people who played a lot. Making assumptions about ICs doesn't always work. There are some really bad players who qualify as ICs. I don't think spurg is one of them and I hope that I'm not, but who knows? It's hard to be objective about your own play - EVERYONE usually thinks positively about their own play.

Yeah, DH was doing the same thing with his theory of "Rishi and Cepi" are scum. This might add something to ur silly theory, but I find Xyl protown, although he seemed scummy when he put DH at L-1, days ago. Besides that, and taking in count his kinda believable IRC excuse, he hasnt done anything particular scummy IMO. What its extremely scummy is that u are throwing suspicions on him just because we're both in his top list. Have u found something else that Im not seeing, Rishi?

I think it's unusual how the two of you seem to be agreeing with each other. I find you scummy and you're sticking up for Xyl. So I find Xyl scummy. It may not be a strong argument, but it's there.

I think cepi's Mafia profile fits perfectly. He starts off the day going after spurg and DH (for L -1 and the hammer...) completely dodging the question about why his vote was on Tenebrys as well.

I didnt.

You were on the lynch as well. You can participate in the conversation.

Sure. Before voting I didnt have a principal suspect. Even Tenebrys wasnt enough suspicious for me, taking in count he had just a few posts with not enough input.

So why did I vote him? Basically, he was a lurking player. I honestly think there was a big possibility of finding scum in his lurking attitudes. Besides the irrelevant fact that I dont like that gamestyle. So, I thought putting him in L-2 was enough to get him talking.

Yeah, Rishi. I guess u didnt find another thing to make me look scummy. Next time, find a true fact.

I remembered your post. I feel it was kind of a wishy-washy defense of your vote. I still don't think you really answered for the vote. Every living player except me had a hand in lynching Tenebrys. Yet you continued to try to suspect spurg and DH for their L-1 and hammer votes while not receiving any pressure for your vote.

As you were wrong before about lurking = scummy, don't think you think you could be wrong again? (And, once again, I wasn't even lurking. I just didn't post for five days. I have not lurked since then.)

I think the overreaction is scummier. I wasnt trying to provoke u. I was just trying to see how u were going to react because at that time I wasn sure that u were scum. And u reacted very bad. After that emotional post, I confirmed my theory. And after u felt bad about that overreaction I was even more sure.

You weren't trying to provoke me? Could have fooled me. I would point to other games where I was town where I overreacted, but you don't read this game carefully enough, so I doubt you'd do any homework and read other games.

Rishi suspects Xyl in post 128 (fun fact: IMO an irrelevant attack with not enough backup for being post in D-2)

How many games have you played? Your attack is the fact that the post was in Day 2? How do you know what is and isn't appropriate for Day 2? I was trying to get a reaction out of Xyl. I had made an honest mistake by missing that spurg was on both bandwagons as well.

Rishi suspects Spurg for the L-1 in post 131 (and he lets DH out of suspicions when he was the one who hammered Tenebrys)

At this point, I don't think DH is scum. How is this any different than you sticking up for Xyl?

DH suspects Spurg in post 135
DH suspects Cepi in posts 144,147,150,153,157(he suddeny suspects Rishi in this last post)
Rishi comes back from his lurking and suspects Spurgistan and Cepi. post 161
DH suspects Cepi again. post 166
Rishi suspects Cepi and Xyl post 168
DH suspects Cepi and Xyl post 169 (!!)
Rishi strongly suspects Cepi post 183
DH strongly suspects Cepi post 186 (!!!)

Dont u see a pattern?

Yes. You are a big fan of OMGUS.

Anyway, I think this cepi-Rishi thing is dominating the thread. And if we both happen to be town (I really think cepi is scum, but he could just be a confused townie), then we are letting the scum get away. I think we should end this, cepi and focus more attention on the three other players. If you want to get in your "last word," that's fine. I won't respond again.

Xyl - What do you think?

[Rishi]

its odd for Xyl not to be posting, maybe hes away?

Xyl's last post was two days ago. He'll respond.

[Rishi]

No time for a response now. Will respond to Xyl later and might see if there's anything left to say to cepi.

[Rishi]

Spurg and DH are lurking, Rishi promised an analysis. Long D-2 indeed.

Please stop doing this. It is not a good argument, and you are unnecessarily throwing suspicion around. Most newbie games last about three months. When someone hasn't posted something for over a week, then it's significant. Otherwise, it is typical for games on this site.

[Rishi]

Chill out, Rishi. I was not throwing suspicion with that statement. Its a good way to gather information and to avoid possible long lurking periods. Spurigstan is here, DH isn't. U r still here as well, but u promised an analysis. Waiting for that.

Well, then, there's a misunderstanding. Around these parts, the word "lurking" automatically implies that someone is suspicious. Perhaps you could have said it a different way?

I always have time for short posts, but longer analyses take time.

[Rishi]

Rishi; I understand that part. What I don't understand is why you don't think cepi could be partnered with anyone else. You and spurgistan both seem like possible partners to me.

Well, I know that I'm not his partner. As for spurg, I think spurg is too smart to follow cepi's vote too closely on Day 1. I said this twice already.

For cepi and Rishi, cepi has been very aggressive towards everyone but me today. Rishi seems to be particularly riled up about it, though, and is basically telling cepi to back off and keep quiet. That's not the reaction I'd expect from a townie being attacked; Rishi is criticizing the form of the accusation rather than the content. That, combined with the fact that Rishi was encouraging cepi to lurk, makes me think they could be scum doing some excessive distancing.

I'm not telling cepi to be quiet. I am asking him to be more calm and less arrogant in his accusations. Also, I don't like when one or two players dominate the thread. I've seen games where two townies argue with each other and let the scum slip through.

It's nice to see Rishi contributing at last. Rishi, how about a ranking of people and/or scumpairs in order of scumminess? If you're really paying attention like you claim, you should be able to produce one even if you're not 100% sure about it.

I think this can already be derived from my posts. I think cepi and you are scum together. I think DH and spurg are town. I'm not sure about this, but that's where I'm leaning right now.

I'm really curious how you think I'm agreeing with cepi. Also, if you really think I'm cepi's only possible scumpartner, that implies that cepi can't be scum unless I am, so you should be attacking

me

rather than cepi. Why aren't you doing that? It seems like you're setting up to lynch cepi, kill, and then flip it off into a mislynch of me on day 3.

Good point. But bussing my partner and setting up a mislynch is a risky play, and I don't usually go for risky plays. If I were scum, I would only do that if I felt I had a low chance of winning outright. I should probably say that you're cepi's most likely partner. The problem is, other than agreeing with cepi a lot, you don't seem particularly scummy to me. I don't like trying to set up a lynch of people because they associate with the wrong people.

184: The same thing applies here. Anyone who thinks that cepi is scum (probably) and I'm cepi's only possible scumpartner (wrong) should be attacking me rather than cepi.

Why? If cepi is scummier than you, we should lynch cepi. We can revisit the issue of his partner tomorrow. There's too many ifs in trying to lynch you. First of all, cepi will have to be scum and we'd have to be correct about you being his only possible partner.

Thtas why I think (I could be wrong) that a cop claiming today is a bad idea unless we have a very critical situation. (town somehow agrees to lynch an innocent) I dont think we're at one.

Don't just go off of what spurg is saying. Think for yourself. We're in a lynch-or-lose situation. It is a critical situation. The cop only knows the alignment of one person. If the cop has a guilty result, he should claim. Saving his information for Day 3 is really risky, since in a small setup like this, there is a good chance the cop could die tonight anyway, and then we lose any information he has. As I said earlier in this post, I don't like risky plays. Yes, the cop leads to an auto-win if he survives to Day 3, but if he doesn't step forward with his guilty result, then there's a good chance we'll never get to Day 3.

My reason can be stupid in ur reasoning, but heres the thing I dont understand. Do u think the second vote on Tenebrys is more suspicious than Spurgistan's L-1 or DH`s hammer?

No, I find them all equally suspicious. But DH and spurg have been acting less suspicious otherwise.

By the way, cepi, part of the reason you find spurg suspicious is because he's sticking up for me? And part of the reason you find me suspicious is because I am sticking up for DH? You know there's only two scum, right?

[Rishi]

cepi continues with his tunnel-vision. I let you have a last word, and you let me have one more, and yet you continue with the argument.

I've made my case, cepi. Your arguments are weak, and you keep attacking me because I'm the easiest to lynch in your eyes.

Vote: cepi

[Rishi]

Rishi, UNVOTE RIGHT NOW. If u somehow are town then we lose. Are you the one who was in the six months game? Dont u have more arguments? Debate, man, this game is for debate. It's so early for a vote.

I am a townie. Yelling at me isn't going to make me change my vote. Thinking you are smarter than the ICs is also not going to make me change my vote.

It is not early in Day 2.

Prove that you are town and I'll unvote. Bear in mind trying to prove someone else is scum is not what I'm asking. I'm asking you to point to specific pro-town behavior that you exhibited.

[Rishi]

By the way, notice how cepi doesn't give any instructions to Xyl about voting, since he knows his scumbuddy won't vote him.

[Rishi]

I'm curious: on IRC, I would assume here that the scum would have quick-hammered if neither cepi nor Rishi is scum, and thus at least one of them has to be scum. Does that apply to forum games?

Yes, I think that's a somewhat valid argument now that everyone has posted.

It is a somewhat risky move on forums, though, so it's not ironclad. If, for example, DH and spurg were scum (just using a hypothetical here - not saying they are), then spurg might have avoided the vote since he wouldn't know when DH would have time to post again. However, DH and spurg easily could have slipped a vote on cepi saying that they agreed with what I was saying and not looked as suspicious.

[Rishi]

Twilight. The quickness of those two votes worries me.

[Rishi]

I'll wait until JDodge posts the ending before giving my complete post-game comments.

But I suspected that perhaps cepi was letting the scum slip away by attacking me, which I pointed out. But when cepi would not let up, it made me believe he was scum.

I think spurg did a really good job buddying up to me while Xyl buddied up to cepi.

[Rishi]

cepi - I think you should use shorter posts in your next game. I see a lot of people posting long, detailed analysis, but at the end of the day, it's not quotes that win the game. It's your ability to convince people. Trying to use a long analysis to convince people just makes it seem like you're covering things up.

I've made this mistake before, but it's never good to have two townies get into a huge argument. The Mafia just can sit back, relax and ride the argument to the win. I tried backing off, cepi, but you would not let go. The townie, in the middle of an argument, should take the lead on backing off.

And I was not being impatient. I felt as though I had enough information to make my decision. You were the one who wanted to lynch me for not posting for a few days. You made the mistake TWICE - first with Tenebrys and then with me.

Anyway, I think spurgistan and Xyl played well, but really, the town played horribly in this one. I include myself in that.