Newbie 1741 - Game Over

[Empoof]

Hi fam.

Unvote

Gonna catch up on everything during my commute to work and make some reads. From my skim I'd support the algebra wagon so I'll be looking at that more thoroughly as well as checking my reads of the people on that wagon. I don't wanna send someone to L-1 off a quick skim though.

FoS: Algebra

I expect myself to be finished reading everything and make a mild post during my break in about 5-6 hours.

[Empoof]

Alright the last 2 pages of a lot of walls of text (at least on my phone) and our server called in sick so my break is shorter than I want

Reading Papa and Titus as the big townies so far. Papa's 4 page sink hounding Titus was excessive but I actually think it was genuine
Morning Tweet made OneBigPost.jpg and has been silent. Feels like scum hiding in the back after looking townie. I need more on this though.
at first nn looked like confused noob town but then saying algebra was hoping on a wagon without lots of reasoning... while hoping on the algebra wagon without a lot of reasoning... lol
Looking over algebra's small posts I'm actually not as sold as I was before. My main scumread was similar to what I read from others - that he sent Titus to L-1 and then specified later. But I realized the later was literally 6 mins. Otherwise he's reacted to things seemingly genuinely and at least is feigning an attempt at solving the game. Willing to bet he's stubborn town actually. So throw me on his scum team ty
Shadow has been surprisingly absent for being the IC this game - 14 posts in 13 days. Would love more, null atm
Dunhallym wrote novels I haven't read so idk
I wanna iso arona because every post felt like a rollercoaster ride for me for some reason so I'll hold a null for now

AND THATS THE GAME W0W

nn is my top scum now, will flesh out when I get off work if I feel like it and I'll start being an Active Towns Member now

[Empoof]

attempt at solving the game. Willing to bet he's stubborn town actually.

So throw me on his scum team ty

Who is the bolded part directed toward?

Everyone that is trying to solve the game :RollerCoasterEmoji:

[Empoof]

Shadow has been surprisingly absent for being the IC this game - 14 posts in 13 days. Would love more, null atm

TMW the game has only been going on for less than a week FeelsBadMan. Reading over shadow's posts there's more there than I thought, seems pretty good at facilitating. Leaning town. Shadow, I'm curious your thoughts on

the loudest man in the room

Papa, since I haven't seen you mention him. How do you feel about the Titus/Papa 5 page headbashing fest? Who came out as town to you?

Also, what do you make of these wagons forming right now? If the thread stopped here, do you think we have Scum v scum or scum v village (you have your vote on nn right now so I'm assuming you're still thinking they're scum). What do you make of algebra's suggestion that nn scum could mean titus scum?

[Empoof]

Yeah it's probably Grundy and algebra here. Nn30 just fears being lynched as town. Grundy and algebra are inconsistent and scumread each other but vote elsewhere.

I like this headspace but I'm not there yet. I watched nn flounder and didn't read it as townie, and the aggressive tone nn had at the accusation of nn/titus felt extremely misguided. Algebra also had verbatim the same reaction I had when nn posted "the answer to the question I was asking". But Arona is sticking out like a sore thumb to me and this scum team is really logical.

Lynch aronagrundy

I'm pissed that my 2 harder scum reads (in nn and arona) aren't likely to be on the same team.

I'm seeing if arona then algebra, but not holistically the other way around with the lack of substance from algebra.
@Titus do you think lynching algebra would be preferable to arona with your current reads? Why? What makes algebra look "worse" to you? How would you convince me to get on the algebra wagon everyone's talking about.

@Morning Tweet your OneBigPost.jpeg is logical and very "if this, then that". Let's say it's D2 and we mislynched. I want your break down of who are possible scum teams if algebra/nn isn't true.

@Dunhallym ty => thank you

[Empoof]

Nice, head to bed and wake up to votes. I like this game (100% serious)

Ok one more post and then I'm done. Empoof when I'm talking about your townread on algebra I'm referring to the one you held before agreeing with titus. I'm aware you think he's my scumbuddy

To clarify, I still think algebra is likely stubborn town but I see the potential in the scum team Titus presented. The thinking she had I agreed with considering her points of view, but I don't fully share them yet. I town read Titus so I want to dig deeper with that logic.

My vote on you is more how out of place some of your posts feel. I held the roller coaster feeling as null and reading further it felt like scum. Gonna grab some food, address that further and look at the recent posts. brb.

Also, straight up if anything I say doesn't make sense to someone please ask me to clarify. I have a tendency to ride my ADD wave and sometimes don't voice my train of thought correctly. I take no offense from people asking!

[Empoof]

Alright let me go over arona and this "rollercoaster" feeling. This is a sudo-iso up to my vote and I encourage people to look through the posts themselves instead of relying on my poor summary.

Posts 5 through 64 feel like standard early game. Null
post 65 calling out the IC on (in arona's perspective) flawed logic. Town
Titus calls arona algebra's scum buddy since they are currently talking about algebra but arona just walks right over it. Post 68 is scum.
post 129/130 unvotes shadow and doesn't revote after previously "agreeing with algebra votes", this is odd behaviour. scum.
post 154 says doesn't vote because wanted to read more closely. Super legit, seems town.
post 155 sus of titus still there from previous vote before shadow (this is kush), and agreeing with someone you had a scum read on (?) that nn looks shady so you vote him. This vote feels pretty scummy.
post 156 asking your scum read to clarify suspicions they have. this is townie
^ the posts so far when I read them go back and forth from looking townie to looking scummy. Why i initially placed null and why i describe your posts like a rollercoaster going up and down.

the rest of the posts up into 195 just felt really bizarre. You were sitting on a vote on nn with someone you had labelled as scum in algebra, that was pressured by your other scum in Titus. Noting this is before nn freaked out about Titus association. You move algebra into anti-town while thinking he has sound logic. I had also labelled 195 as you feeling still feeling defensive about scumteam associations (which I was misread, you elaborate more in 209).

This is why I pulled the trigger on you.

Morning Tweets post reaks of townie. Please continue to use logic in this game, it will benefit town.

responding to arona's followups: "It struck me as odd that you would make light of her logic even though she appears to be your strongest townread" I asked Titus for more reasoning because I hold a town read on them... Collaborating with other townies is a good way to win the game. I'm not treating her word as gospel at all, I actually said that I'm not quite there yet. I want more. Though I like your double mislynch theory, that's good deduction.

Your response doesn't feel like OMGUS, but you sound alarmed. Which is fair, I didn't give lots of reasoning behind my vote.

[Empoof]

WOW there are some words on this page!

I'll be home in about an hour and see what arona has to say while I drink some tea

Baked Apple Cinnamon mmmm I can smell it now.

[Empoof]

Oh this isn't nearly as intimidating as it was on my phone. Thank god, I have to wake up in like 7 hours and was legit worried I would be reading forever lol.

This might sound bad but I don't feel the need to answer everything you posed towards me. If you ask nice I will but yeah. It felt like a lot of nickpicky things that I think in the end we'd see eye to eye on or just agree to disagree. If you want this, i'll do it, clarity is cool. But not tonight lol. This quote was really important for me though:

A lot of the issues that you and titus have with me are about me saying that I'm suspicious of people and not necessarily voting them. I think it's important to see the context of both of my shaddowez and nn30 vote. With the shaddowez vote, the algebra wagon had just started so I commented on it. It was on my mind. That's all. And then with nn30, I had previously questioned titus on a post that she had made (which was directed toward nn30, funny enough). That's just who I am. I just like putting my thoughts out there, especially in response to how the game's flowing.

PLEASE keep doing this. This was actually huge for me UNVOTE: aronagrundy. This along with how you've dissected my posts makes me feel like you're legit hunting and not trying to catch a town slipping.

One more thing, empoof:

post 129/130 unvotes shadow and doesn't revote after previously "agreeing with algebra votes", this is odd behaviour. scum.

Why did this come up as scum when you first read it (yes I know you answer your own question about me unvoting later)? I think this only makes me scummy if algebra is scum (unless not revoting after unvoting is a major scumtell). And you didn't think that algebra was scum your first read through.

To me, regardless of alignment of the accused (this would in context be algebra), choosing to not vote someone while holding suspicion of them feels like a cope out. It's really safe for mafians, since if vote=> town, then they weren't on the wagon, and if vote=> scum, it's one less person voting their buddy. So my initial read through that solely in isolation felt scummy. This was one of my red flags on Morning Tweets OneBigPost, but the comfort level in their reads in AnotherBigPost swayed me.

^I answered this one because I think this is the crux of our disagreement.

I can't just say that and not have a vote VOTE: nn30 since I didn't like their aggressive reaction to algebra's suggestion. It helps that arona isn't off the rails on my scumdar anymore (which was a big deterrent in initially focusing on nn). Will dive into this tomorrow, along with clarity for arona since I'm expecting him to want it.

this reverts the wagons to 3vs3vs2 if i'm reading it right.

[Empoof]

Joining the "I need to catch up" family, worked overtime and got 4 hours of sleep with classes starting today... grog.

Hopefully I read up and respond/push today but I might just sleep instead.

Perhaps you noticed something strange yesterday. And perhaps you have forgotten it.

This is basically my life rn

[Empoof]

Alright too sleepy to think, sorry. Not that I was doing any of that before PogChamp. See you guys tomorrow. If that deadline's right on page 1 we still have 5~ days

I gave up coffee 3 months ago but might jump on the horse again. I swear coffee just makes you a better human being if taken in moderation. It was just the moderation part I struggled with

[Empoof]

Papa idk if I'm in some weird work headspace but that theory post made me have an epiphany, thanks fam. Might see some shifts in my "fart thoughts on page" playstyle

Also I missed FACE day, my b.

shadow

how you doing over there

Short break back to work

[Empoof]

UNVOTE: nn30
VOTE: shadowez
I need to do some soul searching and I want to see shadow's sultry IC words in this thread

@Dun I admittedly havent kept up with you very well. Moving from skim to read-through after class. Was there a reason you were holding your vote?

[Empoof]

I removed vote from algebra because he was at l-1 and I didn't want a hammer to happen too soon. I think that I've made it pretty clear that algebra is my favourite lynch for today, at least unless he changes.

Yeah I figured as much from what I read, I just must have missed you explaining that earlier. Thanks

[Empoof]

:popcorn gif:
@Morning feel free to do more quick posts like that as the game moves forward

I'm work now, I like the feel of this vote

[Empoof]

Where I'm from there's a trope that you have to discuss the pros and cons of no lynch every day 1. Just remember we're not random lynching. We're making inferences and deductions. These improve with lynch results as well i.e. I have some pocket reads that become something depending on alignment flip.

@nn30 what's your opinion on the shadow lynch? I know you think algebra is better today

@Dun did you get a chance to read through shadow yet?

^I'm of the opinion we should be directing our attention more to this at the moment given we're relatively close to deadline. That doesn't mean rush to a decision so make the rereads you gotta make. I know I am.

[Empoof]

@Dunhallym

I have a question for Shaddow voters: does your suspicion of Shaddow come mostly from Shaddow’s posts or to a potential connection with algebra? I think I already know Zito and Titus’s answer but please also answer.

I don't attempt to find partners until I have a flip. My vote is purely on Shadow's actions in the game.

I'm in a similar boat, on shadow for shadow's posts. I'm looking at partners for D2 if we're right but that isn't here yet. I like this lynch more than the algebra lynch.

@nn

I can see the reason behind the votes which are currently on him but I don't feel strongly enough about it to be the hammer.

What do you see when you read through shadow's posts. I'm having trouble identifying your PoV.

@algebra

you caught up yet?

[Empoof]

@Titus - if we haven't shifted to Algebra as today's lynch by 12pm (~5hrs from now) I will claim intent to hammer on Shaddowez.

I was having trouble identifying if you thought shadow was scum or not. This helped me understand a bit better.

I'm work for the next 7 hours so I'm on shadow personally until then. I'd need something to happen for me to change at this point

{enter shadow stage left}

[Empoof]

FWIW I was gonna bring up the unvote on Titus but didn't finish my post before class since phone formatting blows

Why did this change? And if it changed due to her push (I'm anticipating here) then why oh why didn't you revote her? Even better - why did you take the vote off if you weren't going to vote someone else? I had no idea Titus was your #1 you've thrown me for a loop here congrats.

It changed because of her reactions and her push.

I had unvoted her because at the time one of my major issues was the algebra quote, which I already admitted to being dumb about regarding semantics.

I didn't know the vote count at the time, and didn't have any more time that day to look into it, so didn't want to vote algebra. everyone.

I'm finding it hard to believe that the algebra quote would be the crux of your argumentation against her considering her post count. I can understand unvoting being based on her reactions but it's poor form to start a shallow wagon that you labeled as "unpopular" that crumbled that hard to semantics. You also could have just said

anything

about a potential vote, since now it feels to me like you're resigning to the counter wagon just because it's there.

I really dislike the defeatist attitude you held in your first post reply and it clouded me listening to your argumentation with an unbiased view so I'm gonna have lunch and look at it.

ALSO I'm loving the competing wagons you guys have no idea.

I was beginning to think I was the only one

[Empoof]

I can text bae and scum hunt at the same time

[Empoof]

nn I'm on the shadow wagon

Eating banana bread, nothing's come up for me on this reread so far that isn't some sort of rehash or relies on knowing his flip. But I'm still digging.

Would love that detailed argumentation that Papa was talking about since what you have here is kind of a mess.
The misrep I've seen looked more like Titus insights rather than a summary but I haven't gone through the "white knight" business yet

[Empoof]

TFW

[Empoof]

So algebra tomorrow

[Empoof]

A friend of mine said this in a game before:

"The play is so scummy it's almost townie"

[Empoof]

I think algebra is fucked regardless of flip

If this goes to LyLo D3 this game will be bonkers

[Empoof]

Shadow in what world do we not lynch algebra tomorrow

Am I playing a different game than you guys or something

If you're Town can you sparknotes Titus for us?

[Empoof]

I'm asking because algebra is basically guaranteed tomorrow regardless of flip

Again am I playing a different game

[Empoof]

Shadow flips scum -> algebra "oops's" a wagon on scum to look cleaner when he would otherwise be D2'd

Shadow flips town -> algebra "oops's" a wagon that isn't his

Like... this isn't rocket science is there something I'm missing. This is the single scummiest hammer I've ever seen

[Empoof]

[Empoof]

His play started going downhill 284 forward

Weren't you not a fan of the shadow wagon in 318?

[Empoof]

Xalxe bb please come home I just want to start D2 already

[Empoof]

tbh I thought that red Algebra would have arona as a likely partner.
Papa thoughts on why you're still alive itg.

VOTE: Algebra

I at least want to keep my line of questioning on this atm.
Algebra give me the break down of what you knew when you made this post:

Catching up, but tbh I'm not a fan of the shadow wagon

Since you knowing about the shadow wagon meant you had read up to a certain point but you somehow hadn't read shadow's posts at the same time.

I'm gonna read through the thread again in full at some point today.
Also aronagrundy was a dude @nn

[Empoof]

Oh I forgot I was gonna reread this today my b. I'll do this tomorrow then

I'm sick with the flu rn so I'm gonna be not as useful. If it gets worse instead of better I'll V/LA for a few days.

What if the kill wasn't to protect dead algebra but to set up the teammate?

I'm intrigued

@Empoof I could explain in more detail when I get on a pc, but I was just going to originally say that I was catching up, but I saw the pagetop VC and saw that shadow was L-1.

Would love the more detail when you get a chance

[Empoof]

UNVOTE: Algebra

I'd rather not turbo into algebra self-lynch

[Empoof]

Vote Count 1.10

Find more ways to work ‘plinth’ into daily conversations.

shaddowez (5): Papa Zito, Empoof, aronagrundy, Titus, algebra

algebra (4)

: nn30, Morning Tweet, Dunhallym, shaddowez

Not Voting

:

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-02 15:42:07)

We need to talk about these wagons rn.
arona NK benefits algebra scum teams imo. If we're following MT logic it benefits Papa scum teams too.

I need

V/LA for 3 days

I can't think very well.

FTR I don't have a problem with an algebra lynch.

But when your IC isn't even voting it's like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This post is garbage and looks like scum hedging bets on the lynch. If algebra is red Papa should be looked at.
This votecount could easily be v/v and it's really upsetting me because that algebra hammer was so bad.
^Both these thoughts are new from a flu readthrough. I am way less confident in town!Zito atm

I am way less confident in all my town reads now but that Papa one is the biggest switch

[Empoof]

Hi I was absent because I had the flu and posted V/LA about that. Idk why I was prodded tbh

[Empoof]

Can you explain to the class why that post is garbage?

It's the only time you gave a willing read on the developed algebra wagon. The way it's phrased it could easily be set up for your get-out-of-jail-free card if the shadow wagon didn't go anywhere. If algebra is red, you and I should be considered the 2 most likely partners. Adding that arona (and algebra pusher) died and not someone who was considered by all to be town is concerning.

I'm really intrigued by what algebra has on you that's scummy that's not related to him.

[Empoof]

Option 1) Algebra is town. Scum push for a Shadow vote in order to to keep Algebra around for an easy D2 lynch.

I think it's safe to remove Zito from the scum discussion. He was the first to vote Shadow - scum don't like to rock the boat and stick their neck out that way.

The timing of this vote is also suspect - he hopped on a popular wagon. There was no boat to rock by the time he joins.

I quoted the parts I disagreed with. You should definitely not be removing Zito from the scumhunt because he's "rocking the boat" - If algebra is scum he needs to find a counterwagon to save him. I also didn't "hop on a popular wagon", I was the second vote. Titus wasn't showing likelihood of moving off the algebra wagon at the time and others were pretty deadset. Shadow hadn't responded well at that point and I was losing faith in my scum reads. I wrote out later things I didn't like about shadow's play.

If we had v/v wagons then scum doesn't need to push for a new wagon "to get an easy D2 lynch", I'd argue that people that were complacently sitting on algebra should be scrutinized more even.

P.EDIT: I'll respond to zito in another post

[Empoof]

That was a very interesting post. Let's put the original back up to make things easy for the crowd.

FTR I don't have a problem with an algebra lynch.

But when your IC isn't even voting it's like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[1]It's the only time you gave a willing read on the developed algebra wagon. [2]The way it's phrased it could easily be set up for your get-out-of-jail-free card if the shadow wagon didn't go anywhere. [3]If algebra is red, you and I should be considered the 2 most likely partners. [4]Adding that arona (and algebra pusher) died and not someone who was considered by all to be town is concerning.

1. And?
2. Why in the world would I need a "get-out-of-jail-free" card?
3. I've already stated my opinion on pre-flip associations so you'll have to forgive me if I completely ignore this.
4. There were multiple Algebra pushers, including myself (376, 383, 395, 396 for examples), during Day 1. Killing Arona doesn't lesson the pressure on Algebra - see today's early votes. So what's your point here?

1.) It doesn't look good if algebra is scum for you to have ignored the wagon and hedge it when you did
2.) If Algebra is red and you hadn't said anything about him while throwing him softball questions
3.) Most of my stuff is based on pre-flip associations since I'm lynching algebra today. I'm sorry if you disagree with them.
4.) Arona dying instead of someone seen as 100% town is weird. Shadow dropped shade on titus and I before death and was talking to you heavily as near confirmed town. The next towniest person is arona. Do you not see that as weird??

[Empoof]

yup

I would be grilling algebra but the infinite V/LA and not fleshing out the thoughts he's had makes that pretty futile rn

[Empoof]

@Empoof

If I get it, you suspect Zito only by association with algebra. What are your thoughts on Titus?

I had the luxary of reading a game she got D1 lynched as town and it looked fairly similar to her line of thinking this game. I know Papa doesn't like meta reads but it's helped.

She's also pushing cases that have reasoning that I like. I'd lean town for now considering scum!algebra, but if not I'll have to take a closer look.

@Empoof - If I'm reading you correctly, your defense of my 445 is that my process of elimination should never have left you as the lone suspect?

I was reading Titus as suspicious of Shadow at that time. Even though you voted before she did, her suspicion came before yours. Rather than initiating the wagon, you joined it.

Can you back up your suspicion of Papa Zito with anything from earlier in the day?

I'd also like to know why you did so little scum hunting of me, your top scumspect.

I think it's narrow sighted to write off people like that. There's still the (unlikely but possible) situation of Titus having bussed algebra all D1 and planning to win by being "cleared", but saw the shadow wagon and moved to that one. I get you want to focus on me, and understand why you would, but completely ruling out other targets is foolish. I disliked your reasoning for leaving off Zito especially, since

he started a counterwagon away from algebra

. For you to ignore that and say that scum don't like to rock the boat really put me off.

My suspicion of Papa has to do with earlier in the day. Iso him and look at where he mentions algebra and you'll see the softball questions and a lack of mention of his stance on the algebra lynch - until it's getting close to the wire. That's why I view the post I brought up as hedging bets on the lynch, since I was clueless he was comfortable with it until it was crunch time.

I didn't scumhunt you heavily because I was scumhunting arona and then was relatively absent. Read my iso from unvoting arona to lynching shadow and you can see that. As I read through your posts and listened to peoples reasonings I "wanted to do some soul searching" and didn't like shadow's titus push. When he floundered more it was easy to hold the vote.

Question: Do you see me pushing a possible Zito scum as rocking the boat?

[Empoof]

Indeed I should be back, but I will have to phone post for the next week as I have no internet access.

@Dunny I think it was in a non algebra scumteam's best interest to lynch shadow over algebra yesterday, so I'm interested in that wagon.

In addition scum killed a member of the shadow wagon, Arona, as if they wanted to make it even easier to lynch algebra today by leaving algebra voters alive.

So I'm looking at Empoof, Papa, and Titus for one if not two scum. My gut doesn't want to believe there's a Papa/Titus scumteam, so there's a higher chance Empoof is scum if there's two scum in that group. Furthermore Titus currently has a mystery townread on Empoof, so I think the best possible vote is:

VOTE: Empoof

How do you feel about algebra? Going with this line of thinking, would you call him town? How do you feel about his hammer yesterday? Where does that leave nn to you, someone who (sheepishly) had intent to hammer?

[Empoof]

1) I think it's narrow sighted to write off people like that. There's still the (unlikely but possible) situation of Titus having bussed algebra all D1 and planning to win by being "cleared", but saw the shadow wagon and moved to that one. I get you want to focus on me, and understand why you would, but completely ruling out other targets is foolish.

I disliked your reasoning for leaving off Zito especially, since

he started a counterwagon away from algebra

. For you to ignore that and say that scum don't like to rock the boat really put me off.

2) My suspicion of Papa has to do with earlier in the day. Iso him and look at where he mentions algebra and you'll see the softball questions and a lack of mention of his stance on the algebra lynch - until it's getting close to the wire. That's why I view the post I brought up as hedging bets on the lynch, since I was clueless he was comfortable with it until it was crunch time.

3) I didn't scumhunt you heavily because I was scumhunting arona and then was relatively absent. Read my iso from unvoting arona to lynching shadow and you can see that. As I read through your posts and listened to peoples reasonings I "wanted to do some soul searching" and didn't like shadow's titus push. When he floundered more it was easy to hold the vote.

4) Question: Do you see me pushing a possible Zito scum as rocking the boat?

1) Let's take your logic to it's fullest extent (referring to the bolded). Here are the assumptions you are making for this scenario.

a) Algebra is scum
b) Papa Zito is scum
c) Papa Zito started the counterwagon (260) on Shadow in order to save his scum buddy

How does this play out in later days? Zito knows Shadow will flip town. After that point, the town will likely revert back to bussing whoever it was bussing before switching to Shadow. In this scenario, that's either Algebra or myself (referring to the VC in 237 with myself and Algebra tied). At the point in time where Zito made his play (bussing Shadow) let's say there's a 50/50 chance that he manages to divert the wagon away from Algebra on day two. Is this a logical scum play?

To take this into day 2 speculation (I fully admit that this is difficult to speculate accurately; I'm doing it for the purposes of this thought process).

Then

we have to assume that town won't turn on him (or Algebra) once I flip town. Is this still a play that logical scum would make?

Re-read the interactions between Shadow and Zito leading up to Zito's vote in 260. I think that it's more likely that Zito found Shaddow's actions at the time to be scummy and chose to switch focus to him.

2) Sure, these do seem like softball questions. I'll concede this point, but I do have a question.

How does this read match up with how Zito has been behaving on day two? Please look at 476 and 518 in particular.

3) Why did you choose to scumhunt Arona over me though? I get that you were absent - that's fine - but you chose to go after someone other than your top scumspect.

4) Sure; you're scum hunting a fresh target. That could be seen as rocking the boat.

You could also be trying to divert attention away from Algebra (just as you claim Zito did by bussing Shadow).

It could go either way IMO but I'm leaning towards the latter rather than the former.

1.) Is this a logical scum play - yeah, he found the scummy looking target that Titus was looking at, someone who was ride-or-die algebra=scum, and pushed him while appealing to Titus. This is a beautiful wagon to counterpush. I don't like how you put chance numbers in this, I think looking at a situation like that as a 50/50 isn't good. Algebra is looking worse and worse and Zito needs to find a target that will appeal to a mass audience more. Enter:Shadow

2.) It matches up with Zito taking a backseat early on and trying to gather ground. I dislike him taking a backseat while he was considered so townie by so many people. What does scum!algebra's partner do this day other than bus because algebra's so screwed.

3.) I wrote why I chose to scumhunt arona over you when I voted him - look over those posts. You're stressing this "topscumspect" thing really hard. You can see my behaviour and my reasonings in my iso and I don't think I need to rehash any of that.

4.) HOW AM I DIVERTING ATTENTION AWAY FROM ALGEBRA WHEN HE'S BEEN DEFACTO MY LYNCH TARGET AND CORE FOUNDATION FOR SCUMREADS

[Empoof]

@empoof, vote papa or algebra then?

Why would you vote Papa today over Algebra

[Empoof]

Yes Titus is getting away with too much which I will get to when I can and at a pc

@Empoof I could explain in more detail when I get on a pc, but I was just going to originally say that I was catching up, but I saw the pagetop VC and saw that shadow was L-1.

Prod received, still gonna be v/la for a couple more days though. Papa looks pretty bad rn

[Empoof]

I am still considering papa/dunn as well.

Can you expand on this for me, most if not all my Zito stuff has algebra bases

[Empoof]

Cool nn, i feel.

to wrap up:
2.) nope, i had seen that post already
4.) I thought you were talking about my behavior today and not yesterday. My b. Looking at the wagons and how I treated algebra, I would have put myself in the suspect lists, which I brought up in 486.

Intent to Hammer

[Empoof]

just in case shadow's scumbuddy would vote me

For this to have been true the shadow scumbuddy would have had to be on the shadow wagon as it was building near EoD or been exactly nn who had shown to go by protocol. This is pretty bad reasoning to hammer while shadow was also building a case against someone you (algebra) had high suspicion of in Titus.

A little more than 1 day until EoD

[Empoof]

It's literally 1 day, and personally I have a lot going on this week with midterms and catch-up work so it benefits me as well

[Empoof]

@empoof, vote papa or algebra then?

How do you feel about Algebra's mudsling?

@Dunn, Why are you whiteknighting algebra?

@Zito, why have you done no investigation but just tried mechanically to move the day along?

Zito, why should we be townreading you or Dunn?

Titus I gotta agree with Zito here, these are all objectively bad questions

[Empoof]

We don't need to wait, no. We just need someone to hammer.

Reminder from the game rules:

A simple majority of all living players must agree on one person (via voting) for a Lynch to occur (simple majority = ½ # of living players +1, rounded down). If no one has a simple majority of votes at deadline a No Lynch will occur.

We don't want to no lynch here.

I actually didn't know this, thanks. I'm gonna grab some food and hammer in ~2-3 hours to give some time to anyone that wants it (be that Algebra/Titus w/e)

[Empoof]

OK THEN
VOTE: Algebra

[Empoof]

[Empoof]

There can also be 0, which mafia would know since they wouldn't have a roleblocker.

Claiming BPV doesn't conf town anyone and it's important to note that.

My gut says Titus is scum now but i need to run through this game with green algebra all the way through. And look at the v/v wagon from D1. And eat.

[Empoof]

Titus you're just 100% wrong on the setup right now take a closer look at the grid if jailkeeper is revealed:

Jailkeeper/BPV/Mafia Roleblocker
JailKeeper/VT/Goon

[Empoof]

Hats off to scum!papa if he ordered dunny killed to make town!titus' reads look bad

Double hats off if scum is nn/tweet and they kept papa and titus alive this long knowing they'd probably opt for each others throats

This is a funny f5

[Empoof]

I wouldn't put it outside anyone's scum realm personally. But you can disagree

[Empoof]

Hey I have time to read through everything now while I have some pasta

Current gut says Titus still scummy (as stated earlier) but I want to back it up with more than just her bad questions D2. It really bothered me when she asked if I wanted to lynch papa over algebra.

nn your own point c is how it would benefit Titus. I view misrepping the setup as NAI, in case that wasn't clear.

We're all writing off Morning Tweet as town (including me) which worries me. I want thoughts from Morning Tweet.

Side note that papa post that triggered me is no longer garbage with v/v wagons.

[Empoof]

Alright I said I would read yesterday but I didn't. I've been staring at the Xalxe iso vote counts for a while today. Papa, where would you say your effective vote was during D1 algebra vs nn? I remember you saying it was on Titus early in the day, and then you FTRd algebra near the end of the day. I know this was a while ago but I'm trying to see where your thinking was during this time.

Titus, can you brief me on why you wanted papa over algebra yesterday and expand on your intent on papa today (more than "white knight")

Morning Tweet you have incredibly townie tone. You've also been showing a gamesolving mindset with good consistency. I'm hyper paranoid this f5, and I could see you on any scum team atm. nn is least likely as your partner with what I read in your iso but the lack of commitment from choosing a wagon during algebra/nn is in my notes.

[Empoof]

@papa right before I joined the game (post ~159) to voting shadow. All of the algebra vs nn stuff. You had yourself not voting Titus because of L-1, but left it off for a long time after the wagon dissipated

@Titus you said scum fell in (algebra/Dunn/Papa) yesterday. Expand this thought process and why are nn/Tweet/myself townie yesterday. Who's papas most likely partner in your eyes right now.

[Empoof]

I'm so paranoid I could see papa and Titus scum team rn trying to lock f3. Fuck.

Might start drinking coffee again today

[Empoof]

159 -> 242 is about 5 days time. This is the area I was grey about, which you were too apparently. But I didn't notice you were also prodded during this time.

Welp. That didn't help as much as I'd hoped it would.

I am no longer interested in lynching nn30 though, I think those voters are on the wrong track. Grundy and Big Poof strike me as bros. Algebra's a mess and I see why he's getting flak but I'm super unsure about what he's doing or why. Tweet needs to post more - Don't Let Your Dreams Be Dreams. Shadow's lack of presence continues to be a major concern. I want to throw Titus through a window regardless of her alignment.

I think that's about where I'm at.


Time to start Doing Stuff I guess I'll start here.

@algebra:

Who would you say are your top 3 scumspects? I don't need reasons just a list is cool.

This is the kinda post I was wondering about, thanks

[Empoof]

Also Titus my name is Empoof that's been bugging me since you started using Emproof D2. Not why I'm scumreading you though

Night kills: Arona and Dunn. Someone give me reasons why these 2 died. Mostly Arona. I read through Arona and am not seeing anything that jumps out at me. Dunn was Papa's homie at the end of D2 and sassed Titus but I haven't read through them yet.

Titus what was your line of questions going for yesterday, it felt like there was no wind in your sails. Most of the questions felt loaded or reasonless.

I'm gonna tear into Titus/nn EoD 1 since I remember titus goading nn for the shaddow hammer

[Empoof]

That's not reaching a decision.

Tbh, I would already be voting you but Empoof's comments about Papa Zito/Titus are ridiculous.

It doesn't seem so ridiculous when you only need 1 to make it into f3 to win

. Also how does this stop your vote, we shouldn't be voting until last day anyways.
You guys are also

BOTH

just talking past each other. I don't like when my tinfoil crackpot theory makes sense either. I see it as the least likely option but it's still an option. Why do I feel like the only one presenting a wide erray of scum teams.

Shouldn't the other 2 villagers be considering all the lines since they don't know who scum is?

Scum can do so much shade throwing and bussing during this f5 it's ridiculous. I even have reason to believe MT is scum while he's my "most townie" player but am the only one that's expressed that.

When scumhunting, we should be seeking resolution, right or wrong. Being able to vote anyone at any time is a red flag just as much as buddying. I am pretty sure Zito is scum using that standard but I want to find the other scum before I vote. The catch is there's good reason to doubt all of you as scum.

Can you give me more on why Papa is scum than this and white-knighting.

Papa respond to the above Titus post. Also give us an example of good scumhunting from someone from this game.

You guys are clearly forming a line in the sand of Papa v Titus. As it stands I'm more convinced of Papa. I don't see why scum!papa sits on the sidelines of algebra v nn and then forms the shaddow wagon. Was he trying to make himself appear more townie? He was widely town read and easily could've went on either of these wagons without looking scummy at a lot of different points. Explain this for me please, especially from nn's perspective, as this is a real hang up for me.

nn give me succinct post on why Titus is your basically locked town so I can refer to it easier. What's your reaction when Papa picked apart Titus' scumhunting. Give me more on scum!Papa. It's a red flag for me when nn/titus have been painting town!zito as "unlikely" and I can't find why.

@Emproof, It wasn't so much that I wanted Papa over Algebra, but I was alarmed at the lack of scumhunting going on. No one was trying to press the game forward, and

something felt off

about Papa Zito. So I pressured it.

I was fishing a bit.

Something felt off

that I couldn't explain. I feel like that kill was almost designed to make my theory look bad, but why? *scratch*

Something is off

with my reads so I'll get to NN30 in a moment.

I'm putting these here because I want your explanations to not have "something was off" in it and have you put some meat in your argumentation.

Morning Tweet needs to get in this thread

[Empoof]

I keep reading the Papa/Titus back and forth above and it looks like 2 little kids fighting in a playground

"You're not answering my question"
"YOU'RE not answering my question"
"You're clearly not reading"
"YOU'RE clearly not reading"

[Empoof]

Since Empoof has decided to be an ass and nobody else is actually putting in any effort I'm going on a mini vacation.

Ya'll fucking do something I'll see you later.

I would say I counterbalanced my assness with decent questions

[Empoof]

Empoof I hear you, we have to look at all the possibilities. But as tempting as it is to not trust anyone we've got to make a unanimous decision to be able to lynch scum.

Sheesh, it's not like I left the thread for a whole day. Is there anything specific you'd like to hear from me?

Are you bringing up Titus and Zito's fighting style to suggest it looks staged, so the "Titus/Zito" scumteam may have legs?

I just want you as a driving force on this day. If everyone is reading you town your opinion and outlook are really important. I know we have to make a unanimous decision today. I think odd scumteams should still have been considered which is why I brought up the ever unlikely Titus/Zito in the first place. I'm not giving the Titus/Zito scumteam legs with the fighting, I'm just pointing out that they are acting like children in their squabble and with neither of them really budging it wasn't doing anything productive. I still think it's the least likely pair but I want the townies that make it to f3 to not overlook anything.

I don't need anything specific from you right now, keep making posts like that last one and I'll be happy.

I think it's safe to remove Zito from the scum discussion. He was the first to vote Shadow - scum don't like to rock the boat and stick their neck out that way.

So either Zito is actually town (I agree, unlikely) or you need you rethink your Morning Tweet read.

nn answer all my stuff and tell me what happened between these 2 posts.

[Empoof]

I'm immediately starting to realize why Papa was frustrated in talking with Titus.

Titus can respond to my questions. Maybe outline why you view me as scummy now. If not for me, do it to gain votes from 2 other people.

nn had the decency to acknowledge me as a player and I understand their PoV better for it.

The process of elimination says MorningTweet, but that doesn't feel right either.

Are F5's usually this hard?

I think F5's usually don't stem from a townie refusing to play the game all of D2 when they're under the gun.

[Empoof]

Alright I've read over a lot of stuff and I think the most likely teams are Titus ones.

We lost all of D2 thanks to algebra, it essentially doesn't matter what happened after part way into D2. We're basically gridlocked into a F5 after the shadow lynch when town!algebra doesn't play the game. What does matter is what happened D1, and the night kills. How we deal with F5 matters too, but all this is just takes from D1

There's Tweet, who has very townie sounding posts but is the lowest poster here by quite a bit. That's NAI (#algebra) but it lowers their involvement in D1 considerably. He's my highest individual town read, but has the easiest time being partnered with anyone. Honestly this slot scares the piss outta me

Individually my list from scum to town looks like
Titus >> nn > Papa > Tweet

But here are some briefs on scum teams with my thoughts on how it works for them

Papa/Titus have fought all game. Papa led the sort-of RVS wagon on Titus, left at L-1 to avoid noobie hammers, and eventually the wagon faded into algebra/nn. At the end of the day they agree on scum!Shaddow and vote together. I dislike some of Titus' posts about the shaddow lynch but I'll get to that. Papa/Titus dialogs are pretty off base with each other, enough to not look like s/s. But mechanically they can be partners. From their talk I'd still say it's unlikely. I'm also nodding at Titus starting to opt to vote for me over papa, which wins the game for this team right now if she gets one of nn/tweet to agree.

Titus/nn. Some of the interactions they've had (similar to Papa/Titus but not nearly as extreme) don't look like s/s. But there's Titus voting nn HARD for a no-lynch sort-of RVS which she drops it into a townread while voting up algebra. NN's strong reaction to algebra listing this scum team off also feels like a red flag.

The scariest scum team is Titusless in nn/tweet. Both of them read other as scum and don't vote each other. This scum team really doesn't have to do anything to float through the game but nod at consensus reads everyone is making. After algebra doesn't show up D2 it's gg. They also have the highest potential to have the night kills make sense: keeping Papa/Titus alive will lead to them opposing each other in F5. Tbh this scum team should just win if true. BUT I also don't think 2 noobie scum can produce their analysis and have it look that good AND be clever enough with their night kills. I'm writing this team off atm but had to bring it up.

I could also expand on the 3 other scum teams if wanted, but Titus/Tweet have no relevant interactions other than tweet not hammering the shadow wagon when asked.

I'm on Titus for now. Individually she's looking the worst. I'll flesh out my full case against her with quotes when I get to a computer late tonight. I'm not algebra I'll actually do this.

I also looked around the shaddow VT claim area and see who's responses look town. 1 other townie has to be on that wagon with me in papa/nn/Titus and Titus' reaction was the shadiest. Read the posts around this time.

[Empoof]

Hmmm I think I need to clarify after rereading.

Titus' individual scumminess is currently outweighing the unlikeliness of her scum teams for me

[Empoof]

Have you looked through at the different scum teams? There is so little meaningful interaction with Tweet + anyone D1. I put in the only thing relevant in Tweet/Titus being he was asked by you to hammer. This is why I put the seperate section about Tweet at the beginning. I focused on the Titus lines because you're my top scumread. I brought up the nn/tweet line because of how it made sense of the night kills. Which is something I was specifically looking for. I can put my notes here for the other teams if you want them, as I've said, but I don't feel I need to. Especially with the way you're playing.

I have no reason to believe you've been actively looking in the thread to solve for scum teams. You've posted no evidence to your claims, your top D3 scumread in Zito has consisted of saying you think Zito is scum for being willing to vote everyone, whiteknighting that you aren't showing examples of, and a feeling. I've asked you to build upon your scum reads but you're ignoring all requests to from all parties. Unless you're top scum is me, which I asked you to expand on. From what I can tell, it's because Papa and I are "weird together" (with, again, no quotes or backing) and I'm being selective with my scum teams

when they're focused on my top scumread

.

I'll be home in about an hour, I have notes of where the

quotes

I'm using are to show you're scum. This is me resolving the game. Quote me posts of you doing so.

You wanna play the game or just keep pushing with no backing. You're not playing like town.

[Empoof]

I had a big post set up so I'll just use pieces of it as we go to remove the word salad for you.

Wow, so much deflection.

Shaddow should eat rope now.

I'm going to summarize his post.

Titus is wierd but I have no evidence.

I am the easy target as the IC.
I'm not going to vote the counterwagon.
I am a VT.

This your reply to Shaddow's claim. You considered it scummy that he thought you were weird with no evidence. I'm watching you do that today. That's why I wanted quotations. I am not seeing evidence.

I've suggested a Papa/Titus scumteam, I've deemed it unlikely based on tone in your dialogs. I however still find you most likely scum. I can't make out your partner yet as you and nn have had conversations that don't seem s/s as well and Morning Tweet is a townie enigma to me. Which is why I haven't ruled out Papa/Titus. I made that post to outline my thought process.

[Empoof]

I'm dealing with a concussion so I probably won't be useful for a day or two.

nn expand on Zito D1. Where did you feel he was on the sidelines (hint: I've talked about this). What do you make of his engagements during D1 where he was present. D2 was fucked by absentbra

Titus should be returning shortly so we can hit more brick walls

[Empoof]

>am town
>was voted
>people posted
>game is still going

Titus is scum then

VOTE: Titus

[Empoof]

Game would be over if it was papa/nn scumteam

Surprised you wouldn't have thought of that tbh

[Empoof]

It was. But this is lylo.

So I have to keep reassessing supposing that I'm right and wrong at the same time.

Yet,

I cannot come up with a town based justification for his passive posting of a Zito/Titus scumteam.

He's done no effort to resolve it or push anyone towards that conclusion OR verify it's authenticity. He has one of us solidly as scum but maybe both. There's no effort to resolve that conclusion whatsoever. Town would want that resolution.

Scum!Empoof benefits regardless of your alignment. If you're town, he fuels a TvT which he particularly doesn't want to take sides on so he can come back on the hammer and fuel a false dichotomy. If you're scum, he sets himself up to bus if necessary.

I have to keep reassessing supposing that I'm right and wrong at the same time.

I cannot come up with a town based justification for his passive posting of a Zito/Titus scumteam.

[Empoof]

Game would be over if it was papa/nn scumteam

Surprised you wouldn't have thought of that tbh

*cough*

Titus' vote is only concerning if Empoof and Titus are both town (

suggesting a papa/nn scumteam, which I find unlikely

).

I mean you said finding unlikely
It is now impossible

[Empoof]

I'm gonna eat some dinner feel free to ask me anything.

Gonna be honest and say I don't think I'm a strong enough player to deal with Titus' strong arming as we go forward but I'll do my best for town

[Empoof]

Yes, Empoof is indeed scum.

I voted Empoof because I could not create a scenario where Empoof is town.

That's not townie btw

[Empoof]

Empoof still being a live after 7 hours suggests that he's scum.

If he were town, two scum would have dog piled him already.

Unless Titus is using this vote to bait a townie into voting Empoof.

Hrm...

Titus having a vote on her, that isn't dog piled yet, also suggest scum. Though Zito and I haven't been here since that vote was cast.

HRM...

I don't like this post.

You being unable to see Titus as possible scum until forced is odd behaviour

[Empoof]

@Titus - convince me that killing Arona is in Empoof's best interests. Why would he do this when Arona was town reading him farily strongly.

@Empoof - what are your thoughts on not being dead yet?

Titus is scum because mechanics

[Empoof]

I mean, I've been hard town reading her for a while. Something drastic would have to happen for me to change that.

That is happening right now.

p-edit - please expand on mechanics.

Having a hard town read in F5 considering the game is odd behaviour is what i'm saying.

Titus voted me and I lived with others posting. Since I'm town she has to be a wolf. 3 town / 2 wolf

[Empoof]

You bring up my hard town read on her now? I've been on that thought process for the entirety of D3. Why is this suddenly scummy to you?

Titus voted me and I lived with others posting. Since I'm town she has to be a wolf. 3 town / 2 wolf

This is categorically incorrect. I see two likely possibilities - there is no guarantee which one is correct.

It's not categorically incorrect from my PoV since I'm town

nn give me succinct post on why Titus is your basically locked town so I can refer to it easier.

I mean I've brought it up before I just didn't stress it super hard /shrug

[Empoof]

Two possibilities if you're town -

Titus is scum and baiting.
Titus is town and testing the water.

we can't both be town. Leaves 2 red in tweet/papa/nn and they can vote and win the game

We don't get to test waters in a F5 situation

[Empoof]

Two possibilities if you're town -

Titus is scum and baiting.
Titus is town and testing the water.

we can't both be town. Leaves 2 red in tweet/papa/nn and they can vote and win the game

We don't get to test waters in a F5 situation

Scum don't. Town can, if you know what you're doing.

They have scum chat and can just organize the vote ???

[Empoof]

I was definitely testing what would happen. I did it while I would be here. If I saw someone vote, I would have immediately unvoted. If Empoof was town (meaning my theory was incorrect), he would have gotten votes. Instead, a stalemate happens.

I'm almost convinced. Can you think of a situation where your theory doesn't work?

When mafia have scum chat and can decide exactly when to quick vote

[Empoof]

I was definitely testing what would happen. I did it while I would be here. If I saw someone vote, I would have immediately unvoted. If Empoof was town (meaning my theory was incorrect), he would have gotten votes. Instead, a stalemate happens.

I'm almost convinced. Can you think of a situation where your theory doesn't work?

When mafia have scum chat and can decide exactly when to quick vote

Someone is good at coaching you.

Scum lack daychat.

General Rules/Game Etiquette

1. This game will start with a Day phase.
   
2. Communication outside the thread (if your role specifically allows it) is allowed until the game begins. It is not permitted otherwise during day phases.

UNVOTE: Titus
Didn't know

[Empoof]

Scum do have night chat to coordinate votes however. They can announce when they'll be on and wait back for a hammer.

Why did you unvote if you thought I was mechanically confirmed scum?

You're no longer mechanically confirmed scum if they don't have daychat. They can organize votes somehow with the help of nightchat but that's not nearly as easy/effective.

I still think you're scum just not mechanically + I won't be here refreshing to check for scum quickvotes.

[Empoof]

Two possibilities if you're town -

Titus is scum and baiting.
Titus is town and testing the water.

I was definitely testing what would happen. I did it while I would be here. If I saw someone vote, I would have immediately unvoted. If Empoof was town (meaning my theory was incorrect), he would have gotten votes. Instead, a stalemate happens.

The situation with the votes forces Empoof myself dichotomy. There's no way around that.

If we're town/town and scum don't have daychat how does voting me catch scum then.

I'm ass backwards confused about this now.

[Empoof]

VOTE: Titus

I liked it better when I was voting you.

g'night

[Empoof]

Well if it's not papa/titus GG then.

[Empoof]

I had a good time ^^

[Empoof]

Also I feel like I learned a lot about playing from this game and it's helped me a ton

so thanks for that

Really cool crew would play with any of you again, even algebra if he took the game seriously

[Empoof]

Also if it's papa/nn I want cred in post game if your code has to do with the "hmm/hrm"s

going back to sleep see ya

[Empoof]

Looking at this made me realize a possible motive behind grundy's kill - Empoof went toe-to-toe with him Day 1 and had to back off. A scum Empoof may have decided he wouldn't be able to get a lynch on grundy and so killed him instead.

Damn this reasoning is so hot even I want to vote me

I can't sleep can you end the game please too much suspense

[Empoof]

oh thanks nn rofl

[Empoof]

WHO'S THE PAIR

[Empoof]

it's nn/titus then

it's k papa I dig where you're coming from. It was basically a coinflip walking into F5 anyways

nn I believe so, also would be full grime to have a game end where we move maj

Will let Papa say

[Empoof]

OH MY GOD

[Empoof]

I'm not even mad I'm so proud

[Empoof]

The scariest scum team is Titusless in nn/tweet. Both of them read other as scum and don't vote each other. This scum team really doesn't have to do anything to float through the game but nod at consensus reads everyone is making. After algebra doesn't show up D2 it's gg. They also have the highest potential to have the night kills make sense: keeping Papa/Titus alive will lead to them opposing each other in F5. Tbh this scum team should just win if true. BUT I also don't think 2 noobie scum can produce their analysis and have it look that good AND be clever enough with their night kills. I'm writing this team off atm but had to bring it up.

cred cred cred cred cred cred

[Empoof]

I'm not even mad I'm so proud

Lol why?

You guys killed it

[Empoof]

Yeah Xalxe thanks so much for hosting, your quotes in the VCs were fuego. Also tigers.

Everything Papa has said are good scumhunting tips tbh. I semi-disagree with completely disregarding meta but that's a massive can of worms and hot button topic. Thread is > all though for sure.

Most important thing is playing to your own strengths as a player, which I'm learning rn. I would consider my strength tone which I didn't play to until it was too late

Thanks for the cred <3 lmao

I thought about bringing up how likely it is for town perspective to consider algebra as town (tweets D2) but his reasoning was so good I didn't

[Empoof]

The scum team was me and Tweet.

I'm stunned.

[Empoof]

jfc -> Jesus fucking christ

Nah b you played fine

Also votes should be locked at F5 js (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

[Empoof]

Scummies nomination thread.

They dropped Best Newbie for some reason.

Looks like Rising Star is the option

hot damn the shoving about the night kill from nn while it might lead to them