Newbie #358 - Big Trouble in Little Rome (Game Over!)

[Battle Mage]

ah another newbie with jack!
confirm.

[Battle Mage]

sorry about my silence thus far guys. i genuinely forgot that i was in this game. Dont worry though, im back now.

Well I have a feeling Battle Mage is scum and I'm usually correct on this so

Vote:battle mage

I believe the only occassion in which we have been together in a game and i have been killed, i was a townie, who YOU hammered.
lynch all liars?

Vote:Jack

Note this vote is also due, in part, to your scummy vote hopping, and putting Dio at -2 before everyone had even posted once...

[Battle Mage]

why is it incorrect? please point out my mistake if i have made one.

I believe the only occassion in which we have been together in a game and i have been killed, i was a townie, who YOU hammered.

This is incorrect.

[Battle Mage]

it was 3 to lynch at deadline. with only hours to go, for all intents and purposes, you hammered me.
And yes, i didnt use the phrase in the exact context for which it was designed, but you should see what i am getting at.
BM

I didn't hammer you.

Also,

[IC]lynch all liars refers to a meta game strategy of lynching everyone who lies to discourage townies from lying. However it is not meant for use the way Battle Mage described it, it's more along the lines of "doctor claimed to be townie and is now claiming doc" lynch him. Or "townie claimed cop but wasn't" lynch him.[/IC]

[Battle Mage]

say it how you read it. should you lynch people who are lying, because the only people who should lie, are scum.
not difficult.
BM

I am here, sorry about my not posting.

it was 3 to lynch at deadline. with only hours to go, for all intents and purposes, you hammered me.
And yes, i didnt use the phrase in the exact context for which it was designed, but you should see what i am getting at.
BM

I don't see what you were getting at. The phrase "lynch all liars" has nothing to do with the way you used it. Or am I unaware of some other meaning?

[Battle Mage]

That's generally how battle mage plays.

This. If you think THAT was aggressive, just wait until Day 2

[Battle Mage]

woah!?
Scumbag at 12 o'clock.

Unvote, Vote: Tendril

I suppose a bit more pressure on ElKabong to post more wouldn't hurt. Lurking like a lurky lurker.

Vote: ElKabong

[Battle Mage]

may i ask how many games you have participated in on MS?

I will try to explain what I was thinking (or not thinking as the case was).

It was really just a case of another vote to pressure him into speaking, i thought if he was suddenly one off a lynch he'd need to speak to save himself, I know (now) that it really just puts him into a position where he can be bumped off quickly.

I'm, not sure I can explain it very much more than that.

[Battle Mage]

hmm... i just find it odd that you havent noticed before ANYONE who got put at lynch-1, and the reaction it ALWAYS provokes. Strikes me as odd, considering your time at the site, and the fact you have played as many newbie games as me-where lynch-1 comes around more often than most.
nonetheless, i think you could be genuine town. Jack certainly seems willing to fight your corner.

Unvote

Two haven't survived very long to be fair, and this situation hasn't arisen before and finally i probably am just not very good at this. However, I'm not going to defend myself anymore as it is distracting me from trying to find out who the mafia actually are. You'll either have to believe me and not vote or don't believe me and vote.

[Battle Mage]

its a nice idea, but it would work better as a film than a book i think.
Also, you are gonna be hard pushed to beat Saw-which already had a similar storyline in its sequel.

oh, quick question... for everyone, including the mod. As my day job, I am a writer, and I had an idea for a story on Mafia. It's kind of like the movie Saw. A guy kidnaps 18 people and makes them play real Mafia, where the people actually die. I want to make it as real as possible, so would it be alright if I use this game as like a reference, and include strategies and stuff like that? If there are any objections, just let me know, but it would be really helpful...

[Battle Mage]

2) Battle Mage, whats up with you and Jack? Especially this one:

nonetheless, i think you could be genuine town. Jack certainly seems willing to fight your corner.

I mean, yes, if you believe that Tendril has sufficiently defended himself, then an unvote is in order, but the fact that Jack defends him is a dangerous reason to use/follow, since if Jack is scum, then he could lead you around very easily. Beware of that!

Lol dont worry-i dont intend to be led around by anyone. Fyi, the comment about Jack wasnt part of my reasoning-more of a mental note that i might want to look back on, should either one of them come up scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

NB: Appeal to Emotion is rarely considered a scumtell. its more of a "i care about this game quite alot" tell.

[Battle Mage]

why? do you have any REASON for such a comment?
evidence perchance?
and if you can draw a reasonable conclusion from said aggressiveness, what is it?

BM

Good point.


I'll take back that statement and replace it with: "BattleMage is very aggressive".

[Battle Mage]

1. that was a natural protown reaction. unfortunately its hard to read Jack at the beginning of games, because he always tries to play the fool, by making silly votes, but i felt this overstepped the mark a bit.

2. You may not be aware of this, but i dont like it when people try and put suspicion on others without giving reasons. Its a strong scum-tell, and you comitted it blatantly.

In all, i dont understand your logic atall. It seems you made a comment, which was then defended against, and then you retreated with a stupid comment about me-presumably in an effort to make it look like you are contributing to the game...
Then when you are asked for an explanation, you claim that your statement was referring to aggression WHICH HADN'T HAPPENED YET.
You also recognised that my playstyle may tend to be aggressive, yet your comment does not appear to reflect this.

Vote: Scarecrow

i will reread your predecessors posts soon, however in the meantime, im happy with my vote on you

BM

why? do you have any REASON for such a comment?
evidence perchance?
and if you can draw a reasonable conclusion from said aggressiveness, what is it?

BM

Actually, I have two:

1. You jumped hard on Jack after he put whoever it was at -2, as well as aggressively responding to my off-hand comment.

2. I'm pretty sure that somewhere in this thread you said you are an aggressive player.

[Battle Mage]

in response to your misunderstanding, my comment about "aggression which hadnt happened yet, was in reponse to your explanation for your original comment. a bit of a mouthful, but i felt the fact that you listed it as a reason was suspicious, so i mentioned it.
Meantime, i find it quite ironic that you accuse me of aggression, then when called up on it, you act more aggressive than i ever do...

oh and btw, 3 days of absence does not qualify as 'lurk' mode. Most people dont post that often when they are active...

Well well. This is a very interesting post by BM.

Firstly, you are entitled to your own opinion, of course, in this case about Jack’s vote at the beginning of the game. You felt he was overstepping the sill mark.

However, I, too, am entitled to my opinions, and I feel that you reacted rather more than you should have to this occurrence.

You accuse me of a “strong scum tell”, assigning “suspicion” without reason. I don’t know where you got this at all. All I said was that you were a bit more aggressive than I would like, which is

in itself

a valid reason. I was simply giving voice to my initial feelings about the game and, by extension, its players, not screaming “Let’s all lynch BM!!1!”

You appear to have read too much into my simple comment about Jack, which was due to a misread, nothing more.


You say that my statement was “referring to aggression WHICH HADN'T HAPPENED YET.”

I don’t quite know what you mean here, as the aggression I was referring to occurred on page two, at which time you OMGUSsed Jack, as well as attacking him for his vote on Dio, apparently trying to start a bandwagon. (Putting him at -2, the very thing you said he was scummy for doing. Although you were the one doing it while trying to cover your tracks with some pathetic fabricated “reasons”, even citing the phrase, “Lynch all lyars”)




Finally, you finish with a vote on me. Apparently because I said you were “aggressive”, a statement you proved 100% while coming out of lurk mode with your crap-cannons blazing.

[Battle Mage]

lol its alarming how many people have been quick to comment on my vote upon Scarecrow, which in my mind, wasnt unusual atall. Im thinking perhaps scum are just going along with the trend, as so often happens...

[Battle Mage]

lol have you been playing this game?
if you STILL cant see the reason behind my votes, i give up trying to explain it to you. suffice to say, your defence has been poor and my vote stands.
BM

You vote on me was normal except for the fact that it was almost completely unsupported by any sort of logic. Other than that I don't see any reason for people to be surprised at it.


You can't seriously expect to wildly vote someone for such a pathetic reason, call nearly everyone else (At least everyone who comments negatively on said vote) scum, and have people just ignore you.

[Battle Mage]

no im not. im telling you to read back a couple of pages and read it for yourselves, rather than making me repeat the same things over and over.
I dont mind repeating things for people who dont understand my comments, but i wont do so for people who are simply too lazy to read back.

lol have you been playing this game?
if you STILL cant see the reason behind my votes, i give up trying to explain it to you. suffice to say, your defence has been poor and my vote stands.
BM

Pretend we are idiots. TELL us your reasoning. At the moment you are just telling us to work it out for ourselves, which is utterly pointless.

[Battle Mage]

Vollkan has summed up the discussion better than i ever could. i hope that suffices for the rest of u

[Battle Mage]

complete lies. you also OMGUSed someone to -1.
BRAVO SCUMBAG.
someone on the Vollkan wagon, unvote quickly and move onto SC instead.

Yes it does. Your

only

reason for voting me was that I "attacked and voted" BM for something he hadn't done yet. I have done neither of those two things.

All I did was say "BattleMage is very aggressive."

Purely

a statement of fact. Nothing more.

[Battle Mage]

it always bothers me when people say stuff like that, because if Vollkan comes up scum now, its going to be damn obvious that you his scumbuddy. On the other hand, if he comes up town, you are presumably scum with Scarecrow.

@Dr. Doom-the votes on SC have been explained numerous times. your comment is as flawed as his, because he accused me of something before i had actually committed to it, which then led me to commit it, and then his original statement looks good, when in fact it was stupid.

im not sure either way about Vollkan, but it seems foolish to lynch anyone other than SC or Jack today

Scarecrow hasn't done anything suspicious.

Wouldn't be surprised if vollkan and BM are scum together.

[Battle Mage]

i was talking to Jack. his post made him most likely to be scum, IF Vollkan comes up scum, however if Vollkan comes up town (as i suspect he will) Scarecrow is significantly more scummy.
BM

it always bothers me when people say stuff like that, because if Vollkan comes up scum now, its going to be damn obvious that you his scumbuddy. On the other hand, if he comes up town, you are presumably scum with Scarecrow.

Pardon?
So, if vollkan comes up scum, I'm his scumbuddy. If he comes up town, I'm Scarecrows Scumbuddy. Yet it is foolish to lynch anyone else but Scarecrow or vollkan? If I'm scum anyway, wouldn't it be much better to lynch me instead of someone who might be town?
I think I misunderstodd you there. please clarify.

[Battle Mage]

you need speechmarks around the name i think...

[Battle Mage]

why would you set out to prove something, if the information wasnt there in the first place?
that sounds like a thing only scum would do...

Yes, I do. However, at that point I was thinking more along the lines of "How do I prove BM is aggressive?" And less, "Why did I say BM is aggressive?"

[Battle Mage]

no, but even with the best case in the world, i wont be able to persuade scumbuddies to lynch of their own. My only hope is that the other PROTOWN players read your posts, and make their own decisions.
Your reactions are also pretty funny, considering your criticisms of others being defensive! lol

Sure, that's understandable. What's not is stuff like this:

that sounds like a thing only scum would do...

BM, repeating that I'm scum is not going to help you get anyone else to lynch me.

[Battle Mage]

1. scumbuddies only bus each other when necessary. they arent going to do it unless the rewards outweigh the risks.
2. Obviously to other players i could be scum, but as I know i am not, i dont see why i would EVER consider it as a possibility.

Furthermore, it seems that there is little i can do to persuade the town of who is the right lynch. Until now, appearing innocent has been the least of my concerns. as town, my aim is to lynch the scum. Find me scummy if you want, but i call it being enthusiastic and pro-active.
BM

no, but even with the best case in the world, i wont be able to persuade scumbuddies to lynch of their own. My only hope is that the other PROTOWN players read your posts, and make their own decisions.
Your reactions are also pretty funny, considering your criticisms of others being defensive! lol

What the...

1) Scum does sometimes lynch each other, its called bussing, you know?
2) Whats with the allusion to the other protown players? For all we know, you could be scum - and you do not ne3ed to convince scummers to lynch him, because if he is scum, hes got only one scumbuddy, while there are 5 protown players out there. I dontget this at all....

[Battle Mage]

I agree, however it feels awfully like a conspiracy at the moment. Its similar to the situation i found myself in on Day 1 of Mafia 61-where i was town, but because EVERYONE was attacking me, i had no indication of who were the sly scum, and who were the ignorant town.
I think Vollkans role would reveal alot to the town, as if he was town, that would indicate that Jack and SC are scumbuddies. If not, we could be looking more at Dr. Doom-who has been reluctant to place his vote either way.
The fact is, until i am presented with an actual case against me, there is little opportunity for me to defend myself.
How about instead of reiterating the same word in a meaningless fashion, in an attempt to sound incriminating, someone suspicious of me makes a case for why i am so obviously scum?
BM

hm, an interesting developement. I have to go back and check, but I believe I accused Tendril of doing this same exact thing: that in the best interest of the town, you, BM, should defend yourself so there is not a mistaken lynch just because people believe you to be scum do to your silence. Vollkan also pointed out that if you are pro-town, posting and prolonging discussion will not only help to save you, but can also bring about a scum to make a mistake, eg. get to aggressive, or perhaps slip up. If you are scum, you probably would keep quiet in hopes that you don't make anymore slip ups, and so as not to incriminate your scum partner. There is my opinion, Doc Doom.

(Just out of curiousity, why did you ask what I think?)

[Battle Mage]

2) Well, I found you scummy for voting scarecrow over some off-hand remark, and calling something scummy which I do not find scummy at all. Plus, you are very excited (to avoid the word aggressive here), which seems like a scummer got accused and overreacts in fear that he is pointed out.

You mean in the same way Scarecrow voted me over absolutely nothing?
if i was scum and looked like i was about to be lynched, i dont think i would be excited...

@Vollkan- The main scummy thing i saw about SC, was how he tried to attack someone, got beaten back by a solid defence, and then immediately jumped on me. I've done the exact same thing before as scum, because all good scum want to look useful, and thus, have an opinion. SC just chose a target, and stuck to it, despite the lack of any evidence-to his own admission.

[Battle Mage]

This was Scarecrows post-despite having not mentioned me in his previous, vague analysis:

Good point.
I'll take back that statement and replace it with: "BattleMage is very aggressive".

It seems pretty obvious from this that he was just looking to get an opinion down, so he could keep his play consistent. trust me, i do this as scum ALOT. You set yourself in the frame of mind to lynch a particular person, and go at them as hard as you can, so nobody can criticise your consistency.

the fact he made an offhand comment as his only contribution is EXACTLY my point. you appear to be blinded by my natural reaction, and are unable to see that it was him only managing to contribute such rubbish that earnt him suspicion in the first place.

@Vollkan-i believe it is Doom who first suggested that i was in a situation of danger, and was thus acting excited-which i know makes NO sense lol.
Besides, the way the current conversation is going, i will be very surprised if i dont get lynched today. If i was scum i would probably hammer you now
shame im not, and i dont really think you are scummy enough to warrant it...

[Battle Mage]

well, at least im not the sort of idiot who fails at reading time stamps. either that, or you're lying to get yourself out of trouble...
*the moral of the story is: dont insult someone elses intelligence if you intend to make a complete fool of yourself in the same post.

Are you some kind of idiot?



Didn't you read this post of mine?

When I believed that Jack had put a player at -1, then I believed that BM's vote was entirely justified. However, when I learned that Jack had only placed the second vote, my opinion about BM changed due to the fact that while voting some one for a very scummy, almost baseless vote that puts someone at -1 so soon in the day is good cause for a vote on said person, putting someone at -2 if most definitely not good cause to

do exactly the same thing.

Thus, my subsequent suspicions of Jack, and then BM are mutually exclusive. It would make no sense to entertain both at the same time.

[Battle Mage]

yeh i think it is WIFOM, but WIFOM is often a valid defence. Few people recognise it, but those who are more open-minded, can see the logic that often comes out of it.
obviously its not fool-proof, but it can be helpful.
whilst it IS undoubtedly WIFOM, as i have already said, im bound to get lynched today, so IF i was scum, i would almost certainly have hammered Vollkan by now, as i would survive another day.
Anyone who knows me to any extent will find the logic in this undeniable.

Battle Mage wrote:
Besides, the way the current conversation is going, i will be very surprised if i dont get lynched today. If i was scum i would probably hammer you now

As I understand it, BM's logic appears to be that "If BM were scum he would lynch me. Therefore, BM is not scum". As kab said, the very fact you acknowledge this creates a massive circular defence.

[Battle Mage]

Its a very realistic scenario. hes playing exactly how i tend to play as scum. That is probably why it seems so obvious to me.
the fact that his only contribution was a random, meaningless sentence, after doing a full reread, is very scummy. He wanted to appear useful, and look like he was trying to find out who was scum, when actually he was scum himself.
If i was scum, hammering now would not only buy me another day, but i would probably be able to increase my chances of survival day 2, as i could use the argument that the person who hammers, is no scummier than the person who put them at lynch -1, -2.

BM

Good point.
I'll take back that statement and replace it with: "BattleMage is very aggressive".

It seems pretty obvious from this that he was just looking to get an opinion down, so he could keep his play consistent. trust me, i do this as scum ALOT. You set yourself in the frame of mind to lynch a particular person, and go at them as hard as you can, so nobody can criticise your consistency.

Hm. Never thought of that, actually, and I don't know now if it holds water. Anyway, I don't think its "pretty obvious" at all, but as I said, I don't know. It seems to me not to be a very realistic scenario.

the fact he made an offhand comment as his only contribution is EXACTLY my point. you appear to be blinded by my natural reaction, and are unable to see that it was him only managing to contribute such rubbish that earnt him suspicion in the first place.

Pardon? Casn you explain that again?

@Vollkan-i believe it is Doom who first suggested that i was in a situation of danger, and was thus acting excited-which i know makes NO sense lol.

Wait, you got me wrong here - I said that I find your reactions to scarecrow much more intensive than I would have expected them for this small comment. I did not say that you are in any danger of getting lynched, nor do I think you are the lynch for Day 1.

Besides, the way the current conversation is going, i will be very surprised if i dont get lynched today. If i was scum i would probably hammer you now

Really? Why would you do that?

[Battle Mage]

it would indicate Jack and SC as scumbuddies, because they both have shown great willingness to kill both Vollkan and myself. if Vollkan is protown, that means that they have set themselves up against 2 protown players, which makes me feel quite strongly that at least 1 of them is scum.
BM

I think Vollkans role would reveal alot to the town, as if he was town, that would indicate that Jack and SC are scumbuddies.

How would that indicate Jack and SC as scum buddies. What if they just agree with each other and have no connection. Vollkan looks extremely scummy to me that doesn't mean though that I am in leagues with Jack and SC. BM you have no votes on you nor did you look suspicious to me until you started thowing up this defense. Why defend yourself when you don't need to?

[Battle Mage]

i always do that. Appeal to Emotion is my forte. i tend to do it more often as town than as scum though.
Also, sorry for lurking guys. this game is rarely towards the top of the newbie game list, and i rarely bother to look further down, unless i think there is a chance that we can lynch scum today.
I would gladly lynch Jack or Scarecrow at this point.
Dio needs to post.

BM

Hrrrm, atm I don't want Vollkan to be lynched, and I'd prefer Jack instead, to be honest. This whole "If he were town, he would be hammered by now" argument seems totally strange, as if he wanted to use his IC-status to lure one of the townie-newbies to hammer vollkan. Plus, Dio has been absent (okay, if hes ill: Get well soon! Best wishes!) for quite a long time.

Plus, Battlemage has been acting really strange, although I don't find it really scummy. It's odd, yes, and I don't quite get teh logixc behind his actions, but it does not really feels "funny". Otoh, this whole (like the conversation is going now, I'll be lynched" thing was really strange and does indeed feel scummy (as if he would like to evoke our sympathy or something like that).

What vollkan said aboput scarecrow was strange, too, but I'm not sure if it isn't a honest mistake or not (it would be quite stupid for scum to misrepresent so blatantly, but he said he has reread the whole thing, so how did he miss that sc never actually voted for BM?).

Further, how SC reacted to vollkan strikes me as odd - as if he was uneasy to put someone at -1, but niot because that someone could have been town, but because how the others would react.

Atm, I'm leaning towards Jack and Scarecrow or Jack and BM as our pair.

Dio is lurking, SC too. kabenon seems town (if you are scum: Bravo, you fooled me).

[Battle Mage]

do i detect an OMGUSSY noob?
nah srsly, if youd rather lynch me, go ahead and vote for me. It will gain you alot of respect amongst ur scumbuddies

I'm kind of busy this weekend, but I'll post as much as I can.


At the moment I'd rather lynch BM than vollkan, but since I think they're both scum I'm fine with either.

Vollkan hasn't made me any less suspicious of him by getting all polite and agreeable once he realized he was in trouble.

[Battle Mage]

its posts like these that convince me Vollkan is town. ive unwittingly defended scum like this many times, and the typical scumbag response is to tie themselves to me, so i get lynched tomorrow. Instead, Vollkan is showing genuine suspicion of me. Im still happy killing Scarecrow.

[Battle Mage]

err....


no comment.

[Battle Mage]

guys quit it with the long words. lets just lynch SC and be done with it. his scumbuddy Jack can be killed tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

rofl. this is pretty hilarious. 3 people all decide BM needs a pressure vote, and within 12 hours, im at Lynch-1.
im absolutely flumoxed as to the reasons behind the votes. many people are suggesting that my play has been 'wierd', but im really not seeing it. it could be that you havent played with me before, because i can assure you, i am playing exactly how i normally do...
Dr. Dooms vote is at least RIDICULOUS. I mean, you criticise me and Jack of acting deliberately scummy, then have the balls to say that anyone who hammers is scum, when in fact YOU JUST UNNECESSARILY PUT ME AT L-1.
I cant believe i protown player would be that stupid. it also implies that both scumbags are already on the wagon (thus you are planning the lynch ahead, on the person who hammers me).
i CAN see the logic behind Vollkans comments, as he is correct that i havent presented a great case against SC. his vote on me seems like an attempt to save his own arse, but whether that makes him scum is a different matter.
Trustgossips vote is the least suspicious. i still think he is probably town.
Anyway, its time for a claim i guess. im a vanilla townie. no big loss if i am hammered, and hopefully it will lead the town to kill the 2 scumbags tomorrow.
I am confident that the 2 mafia can be found amongst these 3 people:
Dr Doom-the scummiest player atm.
Scarecrow-probable scum.
Jack-not alot to go on, but i dont advise giving him too much leeway.
i highly suggest u lynch Dr Doom or SC tomorrow, as it will be Lynch or Lose.

Good luck town!
BM

[Battle Mage]

i dont expect YOU to see the stupidity in your actions, just like i wouldnt expect you to vote for yourself as scum. The hypocrisy in your posts is highly scummy, seeing as whilst putting me at L-1, you promise to pounce on anyone who hammers. ill bring up the old argument: Everyone on the wagon is equally to blame. You cant conciously put me at -1 and then say you dont want me lynched. thats totally ridiculous!
its obvious why Doom-scum would vote for me now, as you pointed the reason out yourself-not only do you lynch a townie today, you can pounce on the person (presumably protown according to you) who hammers me tomorrow, and thus win the game by day 2.
of course you are right, i dont want the town to lose, but in these situations i try to go out peacefully. rarely ever do i reach -1 without the lynch taking place. im an easy target for scum, and thats just the way it is. im not going to cry over it. there is town on my wagon, and at endgame, ill suffice with giving them an ear-bashing.
BM

Hello, BM, you are not dead yet. I fail to see the stupidity in my actions (and how stupidity and being protown is related). I explicitly said that I don't want to get you lynched, and if any scummer would be so kind and Hammer you, I'd be kinda happy, because then I would have a good Idea on who the scum is/are. But they won't, because they don't want to out themselves. they know it, and you know it, so why do make up this thing?

Plus, I can't see how my vote (and post) can be construed as scummy - What would Dr. Scum gain from it? Yes, you are a popular target right now, but it would have been perfectly reasonable for me to keep my vote, as it has not been brought up by anyone as a scumtell against me (why not, btw?). I could have even provided reference from my last game, where I did not vote for a very long time during Day 1 (after having put someone at -1 by mistake very early in the game).

If you are a townie, you loose with the town, and putting us in Lylo endangers your win very much, so you should try to defend yourself as long as you can, in order to make your win more probable. Plus you know that if you are a townie that everything that is being brought up against you is more or less wrong.

Your scumminess (as I see it) stems from the fact that I just can't really see why you see SC as scummy. You say he plays like you do if you are scum (I don't see any similarity in the playstyles of you two, btw), and that his remark about your aggressiveness and that his reasons for it relied partly on wrong Logic is a class A scumtell. I just don't follow - It was an Offhand remark, and he did not vote or attack you for it. When you reacted like it was huge thing, he attacked you more, but it was you who first shifted into high-gear.
Plus, when vollkan grossly misrepresented SC, you agreed with him 100%, which does not speak protown to me.

[btw,

vollkan

: You said that you noted your error right after you posted that one, so why didn't you make a follow up that corrected the error after you noticed?]

ts posts like these that convince me Vollkan is town. ive unwittingly defended scum like this many times, and the typical scumbag response is to tie themselves to me, so i get lynched tomorrow. Instead, Vollkan is showing genuine suspicion of me. Im still happy killing Scarecrow.

Care to explain that one further, please? I don't really get what you mean here - vollkan defends someone you think is very clearly scum, yes? Who would that be?

[Battle Mage]

BS. Try metagaming a little. i always appeal to emotion when i am about to die. its a BM-tell, not a scum-tell.

Yep. You're still acting like an appealing-to-emotion scum.



"You'll be sorry!"


Please.

[Battle Mage]

your odds are confusing. why would the odds of me being scum be greater than 1/3?
of course someone could hammer me now. i wouldnt blame scum for jumping on the easy wagon. i could even see a stupid townie doing it.
you obviously think a little too highly of yourself if you believe that someone will not hammer because YOU, AND YOU ALONE will be suspicious of them tomorrow. Besides, working on the assumption that you are scum, it stands to reason that it would be town, not scum who hammers me. should scum hammer me, your actions tomorrow would be mere bussing, which might cost the town the game anyway!
criticising my defence is at best, pathetic, when ive yet to be faced with a substantial attack. im used to being quick-lynched by scum, so its no skin off my nose. as far as im concerned, ive done the best i can, and i can only hope that the town follows my advice tomorrow.

you speak like you know i am town. is there a reason why you still have your vote on me, if this is so clearly your view?

ill respond to anything else later. note also that your last comment implies that you want scumbuddy Dio to return and hammer me. if Doom comes up scum tomorrow, be wary of Dio.

BM

No, it isn't. What I am saying is that I think you are probably scum (with substantially more than 1/3 chance)

its obvious why Doom-scum would vote for me now, as you pointed the reason out yourself-not only do you lynch a townie today, you can pounce on the person (presumably protown according to you) who hammers me tomorrow, and thus win the game by day 2.

No, it does not work that way. No one will hammer you (now), because if it's scum, they will be my target tomorrow (as I stated), and Town does not have any reason (except maybe for boredom) to hammer you now. If your defense is continuing to be as poor as it is, you might very well be lynched, however (and I'll take my share of the responsibility if you in fact are town).

of course you are right, i dont want the town to lose, but in these situations i try to go out peacefully.

What the hell does that mean? Peacefully? In contrast to violent, or what?

rarely ever do i reach -1 without the lynch taking place. im an easy target for scum, and thats just the way it is. im not going to cry over it. there is town on my wagon, and at endgame, ill suffice with giving them an ear-bashing.

You should still do everything you can to avoid getting a lynch on you (except maybe if the town would benefit very much from it, which it does not in this situation). Why not defend yourself until your last breath?

A fact that you nearly buried with your accusation of me: I don't follow your reason to vote for SC at all. Can you explain it again (iirc, you dodged this exact question earlier this game, too). That's why I think you are scum.

Plus you dodged this entirely:

Your scumminess (as I see it) stems from the fact that I just can't really see why you see SC as scummy. You say he plays like you do if you are scum (I don't see any similarity in the playstyles of you two, btw), and that his remark about your aggressiveness and that his reasons for it relied partly on wrong Logic is a class A scumtell. I just don't follow - It was an Offhand remark, and he did not vote or attack you for it. When you reacted like it was huge thing, he attacked you more, but it was you who first shifted into high-gear.
Plus, when vollkan grossly misrepresented SC, you agreed with him 100%, which does not speak protown to me.

and

its posts like these that convince me Vollkan is town. ive unwittingly defended scum like this many times, and the typical scumbag response is to tie themselves to me, so i get lynched tomorrow. Instead, Vollkan is showing genuine suspicion of me. Im still happy killing Scarecrow.

Care to explain that one further, please? I don't really get what you mean here - vollkan defends someone you think is very clearly scum, yes? Who would that be?

Say something in regards to this, because that is why I accuse you.

ANd, Dio, your last post is more than a week ago. Say something!

[Battle Mage]

people who say im crazy are just jealous. as i always say, its the times i DONT look scummy, in which i am probably scum!

Unvote, Vote: Dr Doom

btw

BS. Try metagaming a little. i always appeal to emotion when i am about to die. its a BM-tell, not a scum-tell.

Yep. You're still acting like an appealing-to-emotion scum.



"You'll be sorry!"


Please.

Don't think I've slacked off in my research. Popular opinion seems to state that your playstyle is difficult to understand and frequently interpretted as scummy. Popular opinion also states that you're crazy.

My main problem, like Dr. Doom's is your single target broadside against scarecrow. I know there are reasons to not absolve him of suspicion, I just don't think that he ranks anywhere near the list of scummy targets at this point in the game.

However, I really have many more problems with Jack at the moment. On going back and re-reading, he posts very sparsely but his opinions seem to dictate the entire flow of the game. Almost as if he's clearly indicating to a scum parter what townie to string up on a bandwagon.

Considering the deadline, I'm not at a point where I can just let my suspicion sit idly.

Unvote: BM, Vote: Jack

[Battle Mage]

trying to save ur buddy Dr Doom?
rofl.

[Battle Mage]

well, opinions change. At the moment, i think Dr Doom is more likely scum than Jack.

[Battle Mage]

@Jack, I don't think you should let past experience dictate this decision. Think about it. If BM's playstyle as a townie constantly smells scummy, and he plays with good people, he still wins as town even if lynched. However this would be the perfect smokescreen if ever he gets a scum role.

thats true, however, as a general rule, people find me scummier as town than as scum. that is reflected in the fact i have only been lynched once as scum, and i have been lynched about 15 times as town.
ofc its WIFOM, but if you metagame, thats the basic answer.

[Battle Mage]

actually i have. if 1/4 of players are scum, the fact that i have only been lynched as scum 1/16 of the time, is significant in proving that i am more often killed as town than the average player.
BM

You haven't been scum often enough for that to be statistically significant.

[Battle Mage]

yes, as most games have 1/4 of the players as scum, its reasonable to believe that

at least

1/4 of the players lynched will be scum. in fact, its actually greater than this, as in most games, all players who are NKed are town, and scum can only be killed via lynch, thus more scum left to be lynch victims.
according to this, my 1/16 is looking pretty sound

actually i have. if 1/4 of players are scum, the fact that i have only been lynched as scum 1/16 of the time, is significant in proving that i am more often killed as town than the average player.
BM

But it doesn't prove you are killed more often as town than the "average player". It just gives evidence that over a pretty small sample space there is a tendency for YOU to be lynched as town more than as scum, which just collapses into WIFOM.

Unless there is some statistic floating out there that "the average player is killed as town in xx% of games", I can't see where you are coming from.

[Battle Mage]

ive made the points against Dr Doom. if you are town, get your act together and go and read them. there's little point me trying to persuade the scum to bus their buddy. lol
if i die today, you gotta kill Dr Doom tomorrow. the scum are almost certainly out of the following 3: Jack, Scarecrow, Dr. Doom.

[Battle Mage]

ooh this is the 3rd newbie game in which im at L-1.
whilst it is tempting to hammer myself into the coffin, i still think there is hope for a Dr Doom lynch.

[Battle Mage]

you forget that Doom has since been backtracking, in order to distance himself from the BM wagon.

[Battle Mage]

lol im pretty sure i already answered that, but ive lost most interest in this game, so its possible that i didnt. anyway, the reason i thought Vollkan was town, is that if he was scum, he would have tried to tie himself to me, so when i died, he'd look town by defending me, or when he died, his buddy could convince others that i was the other scum. he did neither, so i dont think he is scum. comprende?

the thing about Doom is simple from where im sitting. he tries to drum up alot of Anti-BM statements etc, then once the wagon speeds up, and a lynch looks certain, he changes his tune, and tries to distance himself from it. Classic scum.

oh and btw, stop acting dumb if you are town. if i was trying to save my life, why would i be provoking someone who WASNT ON MY WAGON and who could hammer me at any time?

your arguments make little sense, and the fact that you are repeating Dooms comments to make yourself appear useful is dubious in itself.

BM

BM, Doom wrote:

Dr. Doom wrote:
Plus you dodged this entirely:
Dr. Doom wrote:
Your scumminess (as I see it) stems from the fact that I just can't really see why you see SC as scummy. You say he plays like you do if you are scum (I don't see any similarity in the playstyles of you two, btw), and that his remark about your aggressiveness and that his reasons for it relied partly on wrong Logic is a class A scumtell. I just don't follow - It was an Offhand remark, and he did not vote or attack you for it. When you reacted like it was huge thing, he attacked you more, but it was you who first shifted into high-gear.
Plus, when vollkan grossly misrepresented SC, you agreed with him 100%, which does not speak protown to me.
and
Dr. Doom wrote:
Battlemage wrote:
its posts like these that convince me Vollkan is town. ive unwittingly defended scum like this many times, and the typical scumbag response is to tie themselves to me, so i get lynched tomorrow. Instead, Vollkan is showing genuine suspicion of me. Im still happy killing Scarecrow.

Care to explain that one further, please? I don't really get what you mean here - vollkan defends someone you think is very clearly scum, yes? Who would that be?
Say something in regards to this, because that is why I accuse you.
You still dodged this, despite answering to my posts twice, and both times you claimed that there is nothing that is hold against you.

Can you please answer these questions? (Though I already said this way back in [319])

Also, I don't see what you mean by "backtracking". Doom's most recent post before you raised that issue stated:

I voted BM to put him under heavy pressure, to see who would come out to maybe defend him, what reactions it provoked. And, last but not least, I voted him because he made such silly accusations against SC, because he said yes to the crass misrepresentation of SC that vollkan delivered, and that I donT follow his reasons at all. But there isstill some doubt in me, and that bugs me.

I see no evidence for your accusation. Again, much like the anti-Doom thing you and Dio have been running of late, this accusation of backtracking smells like an attempt to throw suspicion off yourself.

Oh, and to re-iterate, BM answer the questions!

[Battle Mage]

the reason i thought Vollkan was town, is that if he was scum, he would have tried to tie himself to me, so when i died, he'd look town by defending me, or when he died, his buddy could convince others that i was the other scum. he did neither, so i dont think he is scum. comprende?

This is so wifom it's ridiculous.

whatever, the fact is, its entirely reasonable.

[Battle Mage]

are you paying attention?
that makes no sense. You are saying that Vollkan attacking me would be OMGUS, but im not attacking him, so how is that so?

@Dr Doom-your reasoning on me is faulty. If, as you say, i act scummy regardless of affiliation, then finding me scummy is a null-tell, thus if you were town, you would try to work out my alignment in another way.

BM

the reason i thought Vollkan was town, is that if he was scum, he would have tried to tie himself to me, so when i died, he'd look town by defending me, or when he died, his buddy could convince others that i was the other scum. he did neither, so i dont think he is scum. comprende?

This is so wifom it's ridiculous.

whatever, the fact is, its entirely reasonable.

No it isn't. The reason "omgus" is considered scummy is because scum often try to accuse the people who are attacking them. You claim the opposite. It's a ridiculous reason to trust vollkan.

[Battle Mage]

lol is anyone else seeing the opportunism of Doom here?
he is willing to join any one of the existing bandwagons, in order to save himself. does that strike you as protown?
The choice here is simple. either kill me, and kill Doom tomorrow, or kill Doom today, and tomorrow we can look for his scumbuddy, without the threat of LyLo.
BM

[Battle Mage]

nope. id rather No Lynch than lose someone i KNOW is town. of course, if we have a doc, No Lynch is a strong play, as we could buy ourselves an extra day of discussion.
anyway, have i claimed yet here?

He's not trying to save himself, he's trying to prevent a no-lynch, which is almost wholeheartedly bad for town.

Your continued failure to pick up even the most basic reads/clues/logic from other players is unforgivable at this stage, where everyone is pressed to limit trying to decide on the best course of action.

I will unvote in three to four hours and end this. If BM musters a satisfactory and lucid defense by then, I may not. It's unusual because your astoundingly bad play goes past the realm of "scuminess" and into, "what the hell is he doing?" which could be either town or scum.

[Battle Mage]

lol gl town. i think...

[Battle Mage]

woah ****!
I'm genuinely amazed that both Scarecrow AND Dr. Doom were town. I guess we screwed this game up royally...

Shots ring out in the courtyard, and very soon it's all over. Before mnowax and Dr. Doom can even finish arguing with each other, they are gunned down, with the shocked Romanus spluttering his last words into the dust.

• Tendril
  Dr. Doom,
  Townie
  , was lynched Day Two.
  
• yakult
  Scarecrow
  Romanus,
  Townie
  , was killed in the endgame.
  
• Dio
  mnowax,
  Townie
  , was killed in the endgame.
  
• Battle Mage,
  Townie
  , was lynched Day One.
  
• ElKabong
  kabenon007
  TrustGossip,
  Townie
  , was killed Night One.
  
• vollkan,
  Mafia
  , won!
  
• Jack,
  Mafia
  , won!

No power roles, so all night actions are already known. What do you all think of the game? This kept a fairly steady pace overall, though the deadline was looming for today. What really harmed the town was the feud between Townies, of course, so if someone (especially scum) want to comment on that...