Newbie 1397 - Game Over

[Slaine Hayes]

Hey kids,

I am another one of the SE's, and as so eloquently stated by Sakura Hana, please feel free to ask me any questions if the IC isn't around.

Speaking if IC's, Random

Vote: chkflip

because OMGUS.

[Slaine Hayes]

I wholeheartedly agree with harryxaxa. Vote analysis in the RVS is rather pointless. I would argue we are still in that stage because we're only on page two and some players haven't even posted yet.

@Justice: Exactly what are you hoping to gain from NicCage? A single vote, particularly in the RVS, is hardly a good method to get a reaction out of someone or put pressure on them.

[Slaine Hayes]

I thought my vote on you was because you weren't voting, not because you were my top scumread, I want to encourage people to do voting early game, and you just did, however now that you're misrepping me I feel my vote is more serious.

So now you have a "serious" vote on NicCage because he is misrepping you? Please indicate where NicCage has done this and how that warrants a vote.

[Slaine Hayes]

Also,
@NicCage: How does Sakura not reacting to your town claim make her scummy?

[Slaine Hayes]

Alright, lets get down to business.

First off,

Unvote:chkflip

I'd like to weigh in on recent events:
I'm still not sold on Sakura Hana being town. The vote on NicCage was in my opinion pretty baseless. The vote on Justice doesn't make much sense to me, either. Sure, his posts may not contain a whole lot of good information, but you're gonna have to come up with more solid reasoning to convince me he is scum. Note that everything in this paragraph occurred before what I'm going to say about Justice in the next paragraph.

I am a firm believer in not allowing yourself to be lynched. It does nothing but hurt the town (provided you are town aligned). That being said, If I was town aligned, I would attempt to back up my arguments with something more than "trust me on this one guys!" and attempting to subvert suspicion somewhere else. At L-1, someone trying to divert suspicion elsewhere rather than try and make a convincing case for their innocence is very scummy in my opinion.

Therefore, I will put an FoS (Finger of Suspicion) on Justice, as I am not willing to vote just yet. I recommend that we push the deadline as much as we can to gain the most information.

I'd also like to hear more from homer, Dys, and chkflip. Which I know sounds hypocritical because I haven't posted much, but I celebrated America's Independence the right way this year. I'll be much more active from now on.

[Slaine Hayes]

Slaine, Why did you unvote chkflip? Do you think he's town now?

Justice, What do you think of homer? Do you think it's possible that he's scumbuddies with Sakura?

I don't have a read on chkflip. My vote on him was leftover from RVS.

[Slaine Hayes]

Justice, what makes you believe that chkflip is scum?

[Slaine Hayes]

#135 is a town post
UNVOTE:

I am rather concerned by this. It seems awfully odd that you are so quick to turn around your stance on Justice right after I questioned your basis for voting Justice. And then we have this...

What's town about #135 Sakura?

Reads, scum isn't willing to take stances normally, and he wasn't even asked for his reads, yet he gave them anyway.

Why wouldn't scum take stances on something? Getting someone lynched benefits them. Also "normal" play is an invalid argument. Each new mafia game is different. I am concerned that you are so willing to change your vote (even though I do agree that your vote was strange in the first place) over what would "normally" be true in a game.

Sure, Justice provided his reads without asking, but perhaps he is trying to blend in and be a productive member of the discussion. I don't see why it is so far fetched that a scum player would act in this manner.

Your quick unvote, combined with flimsy arguments to back it up, all after I attacked you for your vote on Justice, lead me to put a major FoS on you.

[Slaine Hayes]

EBWOP:

Dyslexicon, what is your reasoning voting Sakura?

[Slaine Hayes]

I think it's a little unfair to be placing votes on chkflip. He did state he would not be very active for outside reasons. Instead, I'd like to hear more from Nani, homer, and harryxaxa.

@NicCage: It's just a playstyle preference. I don't place votes lightly and I only change them after placing them if I have a very compelling reason to do so. Before I place a vote on Sakura, I want to be able to back it up with a good argument. At this point, an FoS is the most I can in good conscious do.

I am rather concerned by the lack of activity in this game. We only have a few days left before the deadline and I personally do not feel we have gotten very far, simply from a lack of meaningful discussion. It would be a shame if we have to lynch someone around deadline for flimsy reasoning, but that is preferable to a No Lynch.

[Slaine Hayes]

EBWOP:

Justice, when you have the time, I would like to hear the reasoning for your town reads on he various players.

[Slaine Hayes]

@Sakura: My opinions on you *may* have altered a bit. I was a little concerned by your willingness to change votes so quickly, but in all fairness, we do have relatively little information and other players have been doing the same. I don't know what you hoped to gain from voting chkflip, and then unvoting him, as if two votes would somehow convince him to post. Any comments on your playstyle for such voting patterns?

@chkflip: I'd be very much interested to hear your reasoning for your town read on Sakura and your scum read on me. Also, wouldn't it be more prudent, in the interest of time, to ask questions of everyone simultaneously? That would provide us with some good discussion that we have been lacking and is definitely more efficient than asking questions one by one.

@NicCage/Homer: I agree that Homer was a tad bit overdefensive in his post. Nic hadn't even placed a vote on him yet. So Homer, why do you feel so threatened by Nic? Also, have your opinions on Dyslexicon being scum intensified since your vote? Or have they gone down?

@Harry: I'm not sure how your different time zone factors into this game. We're on a forum. I'm a little concerned that you used this as your reasoning for not posting much. I would like to hear some concrete opinions/reads from you.

And in closing, some reads from myself:
chkflip: Good questions, but asking good questions doesn't move my scumdar any. He hasn't posted enough yet for me to have any real opinions.

Justice: The appeal to emotion post still bothers me. Slight scumread.

Sakura: I am a little concerned by her willingness to change votes, but that *could* be explained away by my reasoning at the top of this post. My read has shifted slightly more to town, given the circumstances of our lack of info.

On the relationship between Sakura and Justice: I think commenting on that at this point would be pure speculation. I believe that we will be able to analyze it further once on of their alignments has been revealed.

Harry: No real content. The time zone thing is concerning. It being Day 1 with no real reads is a legitimate problem, but I feel *most* of the other players have been attempting with the best of their ability to create content and keep the game moving. That being said, he must have *some* kind of read.

NicCage: Going after Homer. At this point, a good move in my eyes.

Homer: Overdefensive in the last post. Will await his answer to the questions I proposed above.

Dyslexicon/Nani: Neutral.


Please keep in mind that despite these reads, I am by no means convinced any player is scum or town.

[Slaine Hayes]

The Lack of Info is due to 2 factors:
The main one being that people arent being really active, and it seems like me, Nic and chk are the only ones interested in asking questions.
the 2nd one being that not everyone voted during RVS so there was not much to question during it, RQS didn't seem to have brought anything of value either.

Re: My Playstyle
Is something I'll leave you to ponder, if you're really town then don't be lazy and do your homework, why should I be commenting on my own playstyle when if i were scum i could lie about it?

If you're really town, you could answer the question and possibly generate more discussion.

[Slaine Hayes]

Not really, why should i tell you about my playstyle when you can find as much by reading my games? Asking a player for them to self-meta just spells out lazy, I don't see why town would be lazy on hunting for info where as you can see chkflip has already noticed i sux at playing as scum just from my signature.

And there is already discussion.

Being lazy to hunt for info spells scum, Discuss!

I'm not sure how my "laziness" would be relevant to my alignment. I think we can all agree I am certainly not a lurker.

More information and discussion is always preferable to the level before it. My goal was not to make judgements on your play style, but rather to analyze your answer and see if it gained more information for myself and the other players.

Would you agree then, that our current level of discussion of information is adequate, that we should not try to gain more, and that my attempts at generating it are scummy?

[Slaine Hayes]

I'm not positive I can glean anything from your response. But it is possible.
Either way, more discussion is being generated, which can almost never be a bad thing, while we await the input of other players.

[Slaine Hayes]

Would you say that this tactic has served you well in this game? Have your votes on different players garnered the reaction you were looking for?

[Slaine Hayes]

I suppose you are right. I just feel that post analysis and lines of questioning are better at getting reactions than votes, unless of course the vote is backed up by others and good arguments for it.

I just re-read and noticed something interesting. Chkflip mentioned that he got a town read off
Of you, and a scum read from me. I think it's interesting that he called the two of us out by name as opposed to other players. He asked us to discuss it, so why not? Do you think he has any valid reasonings for claiming I am scum? Do you think that our conversations led him to this conclusion, and to call us out by name?

[Slaine Hayes]

I might just be paranoid, but I think that chkflip's reference directly to us was a little too coincidental. The fact that you were in there as a town read makes me believe that somehow he drew those conclusions from us talking with one another.

Speaking of, @chlflip: Exactly what are you expecting anyone to discuss without giving any precedent to your opinions?

And Sakura, you claim that I am doing nothing to get reads, which I personally feel to be untrue, and I provided my reads in the next
Post. Did my reads and our recent discussion change your opinion any? Why?

Lastly, what is your opinion on my agreement with NicCage on Homer? Do you think we are overreacting, or perhaps on the right track?

What is your opinion on Harry, and what I said of him?

Actually, I direct those last two questions at everyone.

[Slaine Hayes]

Nani, I am concerned by your overdefensiveness to Sakura's question about your vote on Justice. It seems like you just plan on sitting on Justice (even though he hasn't really been around for awhile) not taking stances on other players. Unfortunately, due to our lack of time, going after active players seems to be our only option. Can I infer from post 232 that you feel Sakura is scummy?

As for me not voting, as I have explained before, I do not place votes lightly. I will probably be voting later on tonight, but only because of time constraints, and not that I really want to.

@Dys: To clarify, I had in fact looked at some of Sakura's other games. I decided to ask her about it to engage her in conversation and see if I could come up with a more solid opinion on her. I will hold off on saying it has changed until she has enlightened us on her suspicions of Harry and why she isn't bothered by chkflip's reads without interacting with other players, which she stated bothers her earlier.

Also, I still am waiting to hear your reasoning for voting NicCage.

[Slaine Hayes]

I do have my suspicions, which have been outlined in numerous previous posts. I am merely
Commenting that ideally, I would rather be placing a vote with more
Information that I have, but due to time concerns, I will have to vote with less information than I would prefer under normal circumstances.

[Slaine Hayes]

Yeah, I'm not convinced by chkflip either. It seems a little odd just to bust in and say "Ok, Justice is scum because he provided reads with no basis". You could argue this point, but chkflip still has not posted his own reads or answered the questions as to why he has a town read on Sakura and a scum read on me.

I'd still like to see a Homer lynch, but I will not be responsible for a No Lynch.

So, for now, and for reasons stated earlier (I don't have much time atm), I will

Vote: homertve

I will change my vote to avoid the No Lynch tomorrow morning if it comes to that, but I won't be particularly happy about it.

[Slaine Hayes]

Unless I'm counting incorrectly, Justice was still at L-1

[Slaine Hayes]

I would hardly call the second vote on someone wagon jumping. I already discussed my reasons for the vote. Explaining away your reasoning doesn't make automatically get you off the hook. However, at least for now, with more time, you are off the hook.

unvote: Homer

Just until we gain more information from the deadline extension.

[Slaine Hayes]

I hope that chkflip will be able to weigh in before the deadline.
Should it get dangerously close to deadline time and Nani has yet to hammer, I am also willing to place the hammer vote.

[Slaine Hayes]

I hate that all this confusion is occurring right before the deadline.

I concede at this point that the most likely lynch will be on GameRaptor.

Personally, I feel that the relationship between Homer and GameRaptor is a little interesting (well, with what little time they had to interact, of course).

Raptor came into the game highly supportive of Homer, and voted me perhaps because I was who Homer was voting for.

Lines like "Homer may be cop", "he can pick out any scum after this day" and the like concern me.

And then, Homer switches his vote to Raptor, perhaps as a way to distance himself from him.

I'm not willing to say so with 100% certainty, but I don't think it is very far-fetched to consider them a scum team.

I will come back closer to deadline and see what's happening. If necessary, I will hammer.

[Slaine Hayes]

EBWOP: I would also like to direct everyone to post #318. Raptor states that he likes being vigilante because "anyone that ticks him off is DEAD". I don't know how the game works on the other site he plays on, but that is horribly anti-town. Vigs should shoot towards mafia, not those that anger them.

I know that really has no bearing on THIS game, but I definitely think that quote is worth mentioning.

[Slaine Hayes]

Well, that wasn't really what I had in mind with "weighing in", but I suppose that wraps up Day 1.

Raptor, please don't allow that quick lynch to deter you from this site, and please come around for the post-game discussion.

[Slaine Hayes]

Well, only one hour left.

vote: GamerRaptor

I agree with chkflip. It definitely takes a few games to really get a feel for this site. I've never played forum mafia anywhere else, so I don't know how it works on other sites.

But definitely sign up for another game, and come see us when the game is over!

[Slaine Hayes]

I waited until the end because I didn't want to hammer quickly and end the day when more information could have potentially been gathered.

[Slaine Hayes]

I thought I had made it clear I supported a Homer lynch. I agree that Raptor's lynch was heavily rushed and based on very little information. But I stand beside my choice to hammer him rather than do a no-lynch.

As a side note Nic, why were you so convinced you would be the one to die Night 1?

I'll be posting a more substantial post later on today.

[Slaine Hayes]

I didn't want to be the hammer. When I checked the game, GamerRaptor was at L-1. Just how the timing worked.

[Slaine Hayes]

It looks like I will be out of a laptop for an undetermined length of time, so I will be posting from my
iPhone. I apologize in advance if my posts seem a little odd or if autocorrect starts going haywire on me.

I'd like to start by saying that the GamerRaptor lynch is only barely excusable because of our lack of time. That should not happen anymore in this game. I agree that he was incredibly scummy, but I still maintain we should have kept him around long enough to get more
Information out of him.

....and now down to business.

Dyslexicon: I have a positive view of him. A cool head was kept during the final pages, as stated earlier by NicCage. I have no questions for you at the moment, but I'm sure
One will come up soon.

Homer: It appears as if you have already resigned yourself to being lynched this day, as opposed to coming out swinging to convince us to vote someone else, assuming you are indeed town. Why is this?

Nani: You stated that you agreed with Dys that the GamerRaptor thing was getting out of hand. However, in that very same post, you placed a vote on Raptor. Due to time constraints, I understand this dilemma to a point, BUT...your vote was only the third on GamerRaptor, and you stated earlier you intended to hammer on Homer. Why not keep your vote on Homer and use what little valuable time was left to convince others to vote for Homer, and then Vote for GamerRaptor if you failed?

Justice: Come out and play.

NicCage: My question from earlier still stands.

Sakura: Much earlier, you stated that you were suspicious of people that provided reads without much interaction with the players. You went on to say that you were not suspicious of chkflip for this reasoning, but you were keeping the reason why to yourself. Would you enlighten us as to why you are not suspicious of chkflip?

Chkflip: Your votes on other players seem to be without a whole lot of evidence behind them. You had a vote on Justice, then switched to GamerRaptor, then to NicCage (and then tried to convince others to vote for NicCage) for reasons I personally feel do not even come close to your reasons for voting Justice. I agree with Nani that your vote on NicCage at that stage of the game was pretty much a waste of a vote. What is your opinion of the GamerRaptor lynch? Do you still feel that NicCage is scum? And same thing as Justice...come out and play.

[Slaine Hayes]

I could see the validity in your argument, but you not bring suspicious of him for that would only really work if he was confirmed town. He could have just as easily been reaction testing as a scum player, finding something to latch on to, and then pushed for a lynch.

Given his recent behavior, are you still not suspicious of chkflip? With what little interaction we have had with him, of course.

[Slaine Hayes]

With that look on things, I'm not convinced that you are really trying your hardest to convince us that lynching you would not be beneficial to the town.

We still have alot of time left in this game, but at this point, a lynch on you is most likely.

If you are really a town player, you will help us root out scum. Do you still believe that a lynch on me would be the best bet? Please update your reasoning with recent events.

[Slaine Hayes]

I originally was voting Homer, then unvoted when we got the time extension. Which I suppose wasn't really necessary, but I was hoping that I could gain more info. I was also a little wary of someone else coming in and hammering a little early.

With recent events I may be altering my opinion of homer, but yes, if you put a gun to my head and forced me to name someone to lynch, I would pick Homer. But I am going to play the day out and see what else happens before I say I want to go ahead with a lynch.

[Slaine Hayes]

I had a couple of fears for voting Homer at that point.

First, I was afraid someone might come in and quick hammer. It was all so confusing that I really wanted to press the deadline to get as much out of the day as possible. I felt comfortable doing this because I knew that I would be on close to deadline.

Second, if I had placed my vote on Homer, that would have put both Homer and GamerRaptor at L-1. I felt it would be pointless to vote Homer and then switch to GamerRaptor at the last minute to avoid a No Lynch.

I didn't wind up hammering until an hour left on deadline. At that point I knew we were either going to lynch GamerRaptor or we weren't lynching at all.

[Slaine Hayes]

If you look at the final vote count, you will see that I was the one to hammer.

I can assure you none of that is bull. I played to my win condition by gettin the most information possible and not allowing us to deprived on any information.

If I was scum, I would have just hammered early on GamerRaptor and then called it a day.

[Slaine Hayes]

Ah you're right. Guess I could have just kept sleeping huh lol.

The first point is a blatant lie. First of all, no one could quickhammer homer. Wanna know why? Because he wasn't at L-1 and he ALREADY HAD CLAIMED. You could have

easily

voted homer to show your support for that wagon. It would not have been pointless, you are scum.

Besides, what "information" did you even want? What were you doing to gain that information?

Also, if homer was your choice for scum yesterday, why aren't you assuming he's scum today? That last minute bullshit that you voted GamerRaptor with?

Everyone else, what do you think about my point against Slaine? Do you think it's strange that he never revoted his scumread and switched so easily to GamerRaptor?

Well then.

I never stated that Homer was at L-1. I was saying that if I had placed my vote on homer, he would have been put at L-1 and someone could have come on, switched their vote, and hammered him. With so much chaos with GamerRaptor, I wanted to press the deadline and see what we could get out of it. The fact that he had claimed is irrelevant.

I was looking for any sort of information. I knew it was a long shot but each minute was precious. I made post 363 to try and invite some discussion. It didn't and I worked with what I had.


I never once said I do not believe homer is scum.

As for me "changing my
Vote so quickly to GamerRaptor", I would like to remind you that there was one hour left before deadline, and I was not certain anyone would be on to hammer and we would have a No Lynch.

My vote was not placed quickly. It was placed to avoid a No Lynch.

[Slaine Hayes]

I never officially tied them together. I merely stated I thought them being a scum team was an avenue we should look at, IF one of them turned up scum.

What do you mean "it doesn't matter which one I lynched?"

The ONLY way I was guaranteed not to have a No Lynch was for voting GamerRaptor.

[Slaine Hayes]

EBWOP:

I don't know Nic, I was going to go down the Homer route, but right now I'm trying to figure
Out why you are blatantly misreading my posts.

If I had voted Homer, which you state I should have to appear to be a town player, there was a chance of a No lynch. By voting for Raptor, I was guaranteeing that would not happen. Since when was preventing a No Lynch anti-town?

[Slaine Hayes]

I apologize that it wasn't clear that I supported a Homer lynch. I supported the homer lynch, but I realized that a GamerRaptor lynch was most likely. I kept out of it in the hopes the tides would turn again, but they didn't. So I placed my hammer vote.

As for not asking questions when I make comments, I tend to not talk to myself in-thread. I meant that statement to be for discussion, or I would not have posted. I apologize if that was also not clear.

Either way, it's a moot point since GamerRaptor flipped town.

At this point I do still suspect homer, but I must admit, Nani and chkflip are on up there to. I will be placing my
Vote on one of them after some more discussion, I am sure.

[Slaine Hayes]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Justice?

[Slaine Hayes]

Nani, I agree that the lynch on GamerRaptor seemed inevitable. However, you stated that you placed the third vote in anticipation of chkflip and Sakura voting after you.

At the time, however, chkflip was still voting NicCage. What made you think chkflip would vote GamerRaptor?

[Slaine Hayes]

My apologies. I was confused. For some reason, I thought you
Voted for GamerRaptor before chkflip did.

I also thought the mod's vote count was done in the order of votes, which made it look suspicious that you voted third.

I was totally gonna run with that, too.

Please ignore my suspicions (for now).

[Slaine Hayes]

You stated you supported a homer lynch and intended to hammer.

I'm not sure what it means yet, but it is a tad odd that you went ahead and voted third as opposed to continuing to push for a homer lynch, which you seemed pretty convinced of.

[Slaine Hayes]

Ah, I see. I missed where chkflip voted for GamerRaptor before going to NicCage and then back.

[Slaine Hayes]

On the Raptor lynch: I think we can all agree that he was fairly scummy. I supported a homer lynch over him mostly because I thought it was a tad unfair to lynch him after just replacing in. Though, I did have my suspicions of Harry before he replaced in.

I'm not trying to lecture on play style here, but I think that it is dangerous to write of scummy behavior as "noobish". You can get trapped real quickly by that. Some very good scum tells could be explained away by "oh, he is a noob." I have also seen the opposite. It hasn't happened in this game, but I've seen IC's do some scummy things and everyone saying "that was scummy, but he's the IC, he must be town and have something tricky up his sleeve. If anything, it allows newer players to learn from their mistakes.

As for my not leaving my vote on Homer, I feel like I may have missed Sakura's unvote on him. I don't really remember what was going through my head at that time, but I think I was afraid that someone might hammer right after the deadline extension. Heh, I seem to be missing some stuff lately. I will take care to read more carefully.

All that being said, I think there is a fairly high chance that at least one of the scum players was on the GamerRaptor wagon.

As for Justice, I agree that his famous "don't lynch me guys!" Post was anti-town, but I don't think it's enough to push for a lynch. Other than that, I have been mostly neutral on him, and for this reason I am dying to hear from him.

Also, to get this out of the way: I will have limited activity over the weekend. I will be able to post, but please don't expect too much until I return.

[Slaine Hayes]

I'm back kids.

Dys: There wasn't an updated vote count at the time I unvoted Homer. I believe I missed Sakura's unvote. But, even if I did, in all fairness, it IS possible for a quicklynch at L-2, if unlikely.

I'll come back and comment on recent events later on tonight when I the have the time.

[Slaine Hayes]

Nic, how does Homer claiming change the situation? A quick hammer with a claim and a quick hammer with no claim aren't that different. Scum aren't going to admit themselves to being scum at L-1.

[Slaine Hayes]

I'm going to be careful about what has been going on with Sakura and Nani. Tempers are running a little high and I don't think that's a good time to try and analyze the situation.

One thing can be gleaned from it though, that if one of them flips scum, we can be reasonably certain that the other is town.

I am liking how Homer is being more proactive than he was at the beginning of the day.

Dys, I'd like to hear why you voted for NicCage.

As for chkflip....he said not to let anyone lurk. Thus far I haven't gotten an answer from my questions of him from like 5 pages ago. Also, chkflip: I think it's high time you stated your opinions on, well....everything.

Depending on his answer to my questions and activity, this vote is subject to change. But for right now, I won't let him actively lurk.

Vote:chkflip

[Slaine Hayes]

Welcome, Thor. I hope you will be more active than a predecessor.

And I will certainly answer your questions homer:

1: At this point, it is pretty clear that chkflip definitely had some real life obligations. Which is a shame, because we didn't really get to hear much from him. In honor of this fact, and because Thor is at L-1, I will

unvote:chkflip/Thor or however that works

.

2: Can you clarify what you are referring to, please?

3: I believe Nic was, at first, justified in his suspicions. However, you have definitely stepped up your game since then, at least in my opinion. However, wether this is you learning more about the game or an attempt to see townish I'm not sure about. I would agree with you that tunneling is not scum hunting. That being said, if you are convinced someone is scum, tunneling is a good tactic. I don't want to speak fr NicCage, but it seems he is convinced of who is scum and is altering his play style accordingly.

Since we're here, thoughts on this Nic?

[Slaine Hayes]

I unvoted you because chkflip stated to not allow him to lurk. I had some questions about his voting patterns, but not enough to place a vote and he never discussed the matter with me or anyone else. My vote was in the hopes that he would see a little pressure and begin posting as he promised numerous times. With you replacing in, I hope we will not have issues with lurking.

So...you haven't read the game, and are voting me? I am curious to know your reasoning behind that, if you have no information on the game up until this point.

[Slaine Hayes]

Homer: I believe that Dys was just waiting for you analysis of me from the ISO.

About the magic-fairy world thing....yeah I don't know what's up with that either.

Thor: No, I was not going to help a lynch on chkflip. I would have unvoted him when I came back on and saw that he was at L-1 anyway even if you had not replaced him. I wasn't expecting Sakura and Nani to come in and vote after me and put him at L-1. Which has led me to agree with you that either Sakura or Nani are scum. Judging by their past conversations, I find it highly unlikely that they are scum partners.

I will ISO both of them and analyze their interactions and post some more detailed thoughts on them either tonight or tomorrow.

[Slaine Hayes]

Take cover kids, text wall incoming.

Dys: It seems you and Nic believe that the fault of GR's lynch rests solely on my shoulders. As I have stated before, I supported a Homer lynch over him. But I allowed the extra time before voting to see if I could be persuaded, which, by my own admission, failed miserably. When I checked back into the game, there was about one hour left until the deadline. I could have either voted Homer and hoped in that time someone came through and voted him, or I could have voted GR to guarantee a lynch. I had a 50% chance vs. a 100% chance. This was definitely preferable to a No Lynch, and I still don't understand (and likely never will) what is so controversial about that vote.

It also appears we have different definitions of a "quick lynch". I wanted to push the deadline as much as possible to gain as much information as much as possible. What I was afraid of was the day ending without us gleaming from it everything that we could. So, by my definitions, Homer's claim isn't really relevant.

Shortly before the end of Day 1, I stated I suspected homer because of his over defensiveness. I decided I would test this out by stating "I support a homer lynch", to which he responded by placing a vote on me.
So, the blatant OMGUS didn't help his case in my eyes. My suspicions on homer were further heightened when GR came in and started defending homer for....well,
Apparently no reason whatsoever. My thought process, at the time, was that GR may have been scum (from my suspicions on Harry from earlier) and that he came into the game seeing that homer was in trouble, and began defending him. Obviously, this later turned out to be false, but I was more
Convinced that homer was scum at the end of Day 1 than anyone else.

As for my opinions now, I definitely think he is playing better today than yesterday. As previously stated, I am not sure if this means he has started to play better as town or has realized this was the best option as scum. I'm not sure which is the correct reasoning at this point in time.

I don't necessarily agree that emotions can provide good reads in all cases. But I'll
Post my opinions of Sakura/Nani later on in this post.



Dys, I still don't fully understand your reasoning for voting Nic. Clarify, please?

Well uh....basically what I gleaned from the Sakura/Nani interaction was this: (watered down so no ones head explodes from having to read alot)

-Sakura votes Nani for "lurking". For the record, I do not agree that Nani is lurking, just a player without as much time as some others, much like Dys.
-Nani becomes rather overdefensive and places an OMGUS
Vote on Sakura. I'm not sure if this a result of genuine anger or a scum move.

Given what I know about Sakura's voting patterns (they change alot), I would say I would be more suspicious of Nani if you put a gun to my head and forced me to pic scum out of the two of them. But, as stated before, I'm not sure if its genuine anger or scum frustration. Hopefully Nani's future posts will help me shed some light on this.

[Slaine Hayes]

If I am so inherently useless, I'll leave.

[Slaine Hayes]

Thor: No, I do not agree with you. I post when I can and include all of the information I have. Like it or not, it's what I've got.

Nani: I've been reviewing Nic's case on homer and doing some thinking on it. I've also been reviewing you and Sakura just for good measure. But, since its in the wee hours of the morning, it'll have to wait until tomorrow until I post my thoughts on it.

[Slaine Hayes]

I still could, if my contributions are actually that "useless" or unwanted.

[Slaine Hayes]

Sorry for the absence folks. I agree with Thor on the need for discussion. I am re-reading and will be placing a vote in the near future.

[Slaine Hayes]

Thor: You seem convinced that I am scum and are trying to convince others to vote me for apparently no reason other than I am "useless". I'd like to know why you think I a scum with a better argument.

Dys/Nic: I really can't explain my reasoning for hammering raptor any better than I already have. You can believe me or not believe me.

I agree that Nic's case against homer has more valid points that just meta. I think when I pressured him to talk more and scum hunt at the beginning of Day 2 he may have altered his playstyle as a result of pressure.

The fight with Sakura and Nani has devolved into a bunch of shenanigans. IF one of them is scum, I would have to go with Nani for being rather over-defensive.

Nic: If you still support a homer lynch, why are you still voting me?

I still support a homer lynch. The next best in my opinion would be Thor for his lack of reasoning for voting me and attempting to get others to do so.

I'm not sold on Nani being scum, but I guess I'll put her down for my third choice.

vote: homertve

Everyone: I am male. I was confused when people said "her" and then realized they were referring to me. So umm... Fun fact.

[Slaine Hayes]

Thor: You seem convinced that I am scum and are trying to convince others to vote me for apparently no reason other than I am "useless". I'd like to know why you think I a scum with a better argument.

Don't think i need one.
Wilma/Justice looks like town.
I don't think scum Nic would go out of his way to try to fake a hammer on town - no real gain to it.
Therefore I think you're scum.

What are you talking about? What does anything having to do with Nic and fake hammer have to do with me being scum?

[Slaine Hayes]

I am absolutely baffled that you would call on others to vote me for "not reading the thread" when you have stated numerous times you have not and will not do the same yourself.

And, as far as I can tell, you haven't mentioned how Nic's pseudo-hammer (which I thought we were already over as an honest mistake) paints me as scum.

[Slaine Hayes]

I have read the thread, and still haven't the faintest idea what you are referring to. If your accusations are along the same lines as those as Dys and Nic, then I'll just add you to the group of you can believe me or not. I really can't argue my point any better than it has already been said. And if I am lynched for that reason....heh, well, the town is in some serious trouble.

[Slaine Hayes]

Most of my opinions on homer haven't really changed since yesterday. My suspicions were heightened when he placed an OMGUS vote on me, while claiming that my vote on him came out of nowhere. When, in fact, I had already discussed my reasons for suspecting him.

Also, if you recall, he came into Day 2 rather defeated after narrowly avoiding a lynch Day 1. When pressured about it, he began stepping up his game. I don't think it's a stretch that he's scum and altered the way he played when he realized just how close he came to being lynched.

Speaking of lynches, we don't seem to have much of a consensus here. I'm pretty sold on homer.
Nani and Dys: If you had to change your vote to either Nic or me (the two with the most votes), who would it go to?

[Slaine Hayes]

Nic: I didn't include homer because he is already voting you.

Sakura: I am aware. But I'm gonna leave my vote there in the hopes people will see the light and also vote homer. I'm not comfortable with a Nic lynch and I am obviously not comfortable with my lynch.

Homer: it's a pretty rapid turn around for you. You can into Day 2 pretty dejected. I just don't think you would jump into gear THAT fast unless there was some ulterior motive for doing so. A motive like you being scum.

[Slaine Hayes]

Well scum's NK DID fail after all.

What does that have to do with anything?

[Slaine Hayes]

I theorize he came in rather dejected because he was certain he was going to be lynched.

[Slaine Hayes]

Though your theory may be correct as well.

[Slaine Hayes]

Nic: I thought it was obvious I supported others voting homer.

But just for good measure: players voting Nic/me, if you decide to switch your
Vote, won't you pretty please consider homer?

[Slaine Hayes]

I'll compromise with a lynch on Homer or Nani, with a 90% preference for
Homer.

I'll leave my vote where it sits.

[Slaine Hayes]

When I get an intent to hammer, I will claim and make my last post.

[Slaine Hayes]

Edit: If it gets close to deadline and no one has claimed intent, I am willing to self-hammer. The way I see it, If we no lynch today, I will be lynched tomorrow, and that gives scum two NKs for one lynch.

So essentially, three town players dead to two scum alive as opposed to the possibility
Of three town players dead to one scum alive.

You may hate me for it, but I have never been in this situation before and to me at least it sounds best for the town. So uhhh....please don't blacklist me or whatever happens when you self-hammer.

[Slaine Hayes]

Actually,
Wilma: I'd prefer it if you would go ahead and intent to hammer. We aren't going to swing the vote around with this little time left and with so many players sleeping/working or whatever it is that happens this time. Throughout most
Of the game, most haven't posted this late at night.

Though I am sad a town player is being lynched, it's better than a No lynch, for reasons I described above.

Once you intent, I'll claim, post my final thoughts, and after some time to allow for people to weigh in, hammer away.

[Slaine Hayes]

Sakura: I just double checked. I'm at L-1.

[Slaine Hayes]

If I give intent, does that oblige me to hammer you Slaine?

Ummm...technically, yes. I really don't want to be known as the guy who self-hammered,
So I would prefer it if you did.

Though Sakura seems to be here.

Sakura: How long do you plan on being around?

[Slaine Hayes]

If I give intent, does that oblige me to hammer you Slaine?

Depends on what you think after his claim and last defense. You arent forced to hammer, but this may make others unvote.

I don't think others will unvote, simply because as I said, most aren't on. Nic as far as I know never posts this late, Nani said she was going to bed, Dys I don't think has ever posted this late, and the likelihood of Thor, who sometimes posts this late, changing his vote is slim.

[Slaine Hayes]

I am a vanilla townie.

From an objective standpoint, I'd like the town to know that this was a pretty flimsy lynch with little reasoning. Please don't allow the same to happen tomorrow.

My final thoughts:

I urge everyone to look at the following possibilities for scum:
Nic/ Thor
Nic/ Dys
Nani/Homer

I'm pretty certain Wilma is town, and also fairly certain Sakura is as well.

I'll be in the Dead QT for whoever dies tonight if they wanna discuss the game.

Good luck town, and I will be back for the post-game discussion. I enjoyed this game.

Out of character: I WAS telling the truth about why I voted GamerRaptor and why I didn't leave my vote on homer.

If that's it, Wilma/Sakura: hammer away.

[Slaine Hayes]

Nic's reasoning is, in my opinion, is rather flimsy for voting me. Thor says he did state his reasoning, but for the life of me I never founded, and he refuse to elaborate. They've been rather buddying up dont you think?

I think Dys/Nic is less likely, but Dys and Nic have, for most of the game, been pretty much in agreement with one another. Also I think Dys has so much town credit that people will ignore the idea of him being scum.

I still think homer is scum, and my read on Nani as scum is pretty weak, but I don't see either of them being paired with Dys, Nic or Thor.

[Slaine Hayes]

Nani homer wouldnt make sense, they just cross bused out of the blue, i doubt they had time to prepare that ._.

Exactly. But it doesn't hurt to leave ideas in the mix.

[Slaine Hayes]

One final recommendation:

Don't push the deadlines so hard in the future. I thought it was a good idea at first, but after today, I think it's a bad idea. Both Nani and Sakura didnt want to vote me, but it was necessary to avoid the No Lynch. Lets not have a whole game full of such unfortunate circumstances.

[Slaine Hayes]

Hey hang on! We didn't get a chance to see if the Homer lynch was still a possibility.

It's over now, Wilma. Realistically speaking, we would not have been able to swing the votes at this point.

[Slaine Hayes]

I go make a cup of tea and come back to a done deal lynch. Maybe there wasn't another option, but I'd have liked the chance to talk about it a bit more, that's all.

Even if you and Sakura voted for homer, that wouldn't be enough to lynch him.
It is unfortunate, but this was the only logical route. And I accept it so town doesnt waste their time still being suspicious of me and there being three dead town players and two scum still alive, as I mentioned earlier.

[Slaine Hayes]

Valid point, Sakura.

[Slaine Hayes]

Good game, kids.

[Slaine Hayes]

I had a strange feeling most of why Nic was so suspicious was because I was jailed and it just so happened noone died that night.

Heh, I probably would have acted the same way in that situation. Bad luck on my end.