Newbie 1,304 (Game over!)

zabriel · Post Post #46 (isolation #0) » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:51 pm

Wow, serious game is serious. I don't think I've ever seen a game launch so quickly.

And we've already had our first soft No Lynch suggestion, which in my general experience makes Leviathan town. NL suggestions are hella indicative of newb-town.

Agreement on Vintermute. Way too defensive for page 2.

zabriel · Post Post #59 (isolation #1) » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:30 am

Uhm wait. Leviathan is arguing speedylynch now? I don't even know. There is no reason to rush a lynch. Ever. In order for town to win we need information, and that doesn't happen by ending days quickly.

Scum want the day to end with as little good information as possible, so a speedylynch is only going to benefit scum.

zabriel · Post Post #112 (isolation #2) » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:41 pm

VOTE: Vinter

Vinter is a good vote. I don't like the LaL play here.

Now that I actually understand what Leviathan is actually saying, I'm not thinking so obv-town. I misunderstood his position, and now it just seems like it was just way more opaque than it needed to be and struck me as being a little evasive. Also, the LaL.

Less of a priority is slimer, who is coming off as a little bizarre. Pointing to Thor's sarcasm mode as a lie was just kind of bizarre. I'd say it looks like a bad scum-push, but it all honesty it just feels kind of derpy. Vint is better right now I think.

zabriel · Post Post #217 (isolation #3) » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:25 pm

Obligatory post-holiday greeting. Hope it was good for everybody.

Obligatory notices: I am going V/LA because I have the GRE coming up, so I'm going in full-study mode soon. I'm also detoxing, so I'm not sure what that's gonna do to me. Currently, it's doing headache.

I think Vint is still the best vote for today. I'm not really sure what to think about Leviathan right now. Every time I feel like I've got a read on him he either changes up or I've just been misreading him badly enough that it seems like he's changing a lot. Regardless of Vinter's alignment, it's likely that scum is already on the wagon, because it looks bad to be off the wagon, and it looks bad to hammer. Thor is probably not scum since he's first on the wagon, which leaves Mirhawk and Slimer. If scum is off: I haven't really read enough of Uct and Robert to get a feel for either of them, and Edo looks good. He's pressing slimer hard and seems pretty engaged in the game.

zabriel · Post Post #242 (isolation #4) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:52 am

Sorry Edo, I'm trying to at least check-in more. Holidays and wah.

Leviathan's last is eh. Only people who you are questioning need to claim. If you don't think somebody is scum, you want them to not claim, because a VT claim is somebody scum can ignore at night and a PR is auto-dead unless they're on the edge and scum thinks they can get them lynched anyhow. A few games ago a guy called Wiibox3 was giving everybody except for me scumfeel, but I'd been on a wiki binge and was fairly certain he was a cop, so I defended the balls out of him and tried everything I could to keep him from claiming so that scum would target somebody less vital. I tried my damnedest to keep from hinting that I thought he was a PR. We got into a clusterfuck and he had to claim anyhow, but the point is that I followed my gut and was right. He was a JK and through a lot of luck won us the game.

If you've got townfeel, stick with it until you're questioning it. Sometimes you're right and everybody else is wrong, especially in a game like this.

Still voting Vinter because he does feel scummy right now, but we've got lots of time, so there's no need to rush a claim. Unless we get into a time-crunch and you feel you might get lynched just to avoid ending the day lynchless, you can go ahead and make that claim, but otherwise you should be at L-1 with somebody declaring intent.

zabriel · Post Post #305 (isolation #5) » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:11 am

I'm starting to feel less good about Leviathan with every post. Thor mentioned it earlier, but he's actively trying to seem unscummy, and admits that he delayed his vote on slimer because he didn't want to come off as OMGUS. This isn't scummy in itself, but it's adding to my paranoia. Points for admitting it though I guess.

The bit about being the only person voting somebody makes sense late in the day when we need to have a lynch, but errant votes start new wagons and increase the amount of information and interaction. Balls to the wall Leviathan. Keeping my vote on Vint for now still. I'd be willing to switch to slimer, and to a lesser extent Leviathan. I'm still a little torn on his slot. He looks scummier every time I pop back in, but some of his earlier posts are sticking with me wondeerr if he might be very derp-town.

zabriel · Post Post #306 (isolation #6) » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:11 am

I'm starting to feel less good about Leviathan with every post. Thor mentioned it earlier, but he's actively trying to seem unscummy, and admits that he delayed his vote on slimer because he didn't want to come off as OMGUS. This isn't scummy in itself, but it's adding to my paranoia. Points for admitting it though I guess.

The bit about being the only person voting somebody makes sense late in the day when we need to have a lynch, but errant votes start new wagons and increase the amount of information and interaction. Balls to the wall Leviathan. Keeping my vote on Vint for now still. I'd be willing to switch to slimer, and to a lesser extent Leviathan. I'm still a little torn on his slot. He looks scummier every time I pop back in, but some of his earlier posts are sticking with me wondeerr if he might be very derp-town.

zabriel · Post Post #423 (isolation #7) » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:46 pm

Hey guys, I'm finally out of GRE Prep mode. Since there hasn't been a counterclaim on slimer, the smart here is to look elsewhere. For me that leaves Vint and Leviathan as possibilities for lynching. Leviathan has been willing to bend to just about everybody's will, and Vint's been looking scummy, plus with the vote left on the claimed JK, it doesn't look good.

zabriel · Post Post #487 (isolation #8) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:36 pm

Here, sorry. My brother had his 21st this weekend, so that ate up some time. I did my count based on an older count and failed to notice the change in vote when I was reading, I still feel that the rest of the information available on Vint warrants my attention.

Thor: IIoA can be a scumtell if it's meant to give the illusion of greater participation. However as is the case with some, what reads as IIoA is often just an attempt to keep track of thoughts and to create a base for building off of later. It's up to town to decide and act accordingly.

I'm disinclined to vote for Leviathan because it seems far too easy, but from his posts he seems far too eager to force a claim. It feels very much like fishing to me. I'm also finding Edo's reaction to Uct's vote on Leviathan interesting. Is Uct suspicious enough to you that you're willing to write off Leviathan as noobtown when he seems to be playing rather scummy?

zabriel · Post Post #489 (isolation #9) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:45 pm

Lurking is lurking and varies from meta to meta. Vinter and Leviathan have appeared to be the scummiest players to me thus far. I haven't read slimer's thoughts on uct myself, but assuming that Vinter's post is accurate, Slimer's vote seems opportunistic. If it is not accurate it would seem Vinter would have us believe that it is opportunistic of him. I do think it merits a response from Slimer in any case.

zabriel · Post Post #495 (isolation #10) » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:01 pm

My reads are largely independent of one another at this time. I'm saying that they both top my list as directions I'd be comfortable going today.

So, too scummy to be scum. I guess that works. Then again, sometimes they're just that bad.

@Leviathan - your overall play is just very unsettling to me. Vint did something that set me off early game, but to be honest I've forgotten the specific act. Since then I just haven't felt strongly enough about anybody else to actually move my vote.

zabriel · Post Post #600 (isolation #11) » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:29 pm

Wait, did we seriously just get two PR claims on Day 1? And yes, solid advice from Uct. This also communicates that he does not want to out the potential PR in case there has been a fake-claim. What I will say though is that we as town should direct our claimed JK since the cat is already out of the bag. If we mislynch all plans should be considered null and Slimer should play the night normally, but if we do lynch scum today, I think it is important to know where the JK block is going. While this does allow scum to target away from the block, they do so at the cost of revealing the alignment of another player in the game and bringing town that much closer to victory.

Noticing that other people exist.

Protecting Slimer does guarantee us at least two rounds of confirming this way. Thor's suggestion to protect Slimer is very town. Actually, now that I think about it, if Uct agrees to protect Slimer tonight we don't need to have Slimer tell us where the block is going, since directing the block is basically a means of ensuring that night actions aren't nullified by death. So, unless we've had a JK holding back a counterclaim, I think we're good on huge reveals. Anything else we need to get done today?

zabriel · Post Post #608 (isolation #12) » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:10 pm

That's why I try not to post when I'm high. Yes, that's an alt of mine that I forgot I was signed into. I made it for a particular game as part of the game's rules. I'd like to avoid that leaking and tainting the game it's related to.

Mod: Please delete the post in question?

Hey penguin, good to have you around. I've been generally lurking in most of my active games right now. I had the GRE last week and spent most of the last few weeks cramming and playing Star Trek Online and smoking pot. Fortunately this game got interesting to me and I have more thoughts now.

I think Leviathan is a good vote as well, but I prefer Vint, especially after 589-591 and the next few posts after that. The exchange just left me feeling like Vint's lynch is going to be the best option for today.

zabriel · Post Post #633 (isolation #13) » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:58 pm

Okay, you gave a weaksauce defense of Vint buried in redundant language. I think the biggest reason you're opposed to a Vint lynch is that you know that you're pretty close to him in the ranking. I'd consider you as the most viable non-Vint lynch. Excluding those who have claimed PRs and Thor, we have six players to choose from. You and Vint top my list. Edo and Mirhawk follow, and the penguin slot has been too absent to form a useful read on.

I'm surprised you're not trying to derail this wagon harder. You're hardly useful if you're just going to whine about nobody listening to you. Be more direct if you want to be heard. Your writing style currently leaves a lot of ambiguity and is just a vague and redundant pain to read through. By the time I finish with your posts all I can think of is how annoying your writing is to read.

PEdit: Uct, are you still planning on not protecting slimer? He his no reason to block you since he can't block as scum, and a night without a kill and the block being on you gives no information since you're a claimed Doc and a logical target for night kills. Slimer needs to target suspects in order for us to get meaningful information.

Hey Thor, was just thinking about something. You were saying that a Doc shouldn't counter-claim if one exists and Uct is faking, but it would actually be pretty beneficial to town as we'd be able to string up Uct, have the real doctor protect Slimer, and have somebody confirmed town in the morning assuming that we don't have a no-kill. The real doc probably dies, and then we direct the Slimer block and use him like a cop until he dies or we win. Basically a Doc counter-claim would get us two-conf town and a scum lynch, which means that unless both slimer and Uct are fake-claiming, we'll have two people we'll know not to lynch and one person we can count on scum to NK for us, unless it's Slimer, in which case he still has to give us one townie every day until we either get too paranoid and lynch him or we hit lylo. I feel like that's a pretty good trade.

zabriel · Post Post #750 (isolation #14) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:06 am

There's no reason that Mirhawk would have been targetted last night. Slimer may have been a target if he's town and Uct protected him. I'd like Uct to reveal his night action as well. It's *possible* that scum is screwing with us, but that's some conservative play right there. Basically my vote is going to be hugely influenced by where Uct went. Currently Mirhawk seems to be the smartest vote. If he's town and Uct didn't protect Slimer, Slimer is probably scum.

zabriel · Post Post #755 (isolation #15) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:41 am

Uct's night action is important because he's a claimed doctor who was resisting Thor's insistence that he protect slimer, so I'd like to know who he protected.

Mirhawk, you are a terrible NK option because we have a claimed JK, a claimed Doc, and an IC. There is no way that one of those three wasn't targetted last night. So basically, unless Uct protected Slimer or possibly Thor I'm left to think that Slimer stopped the kill since I tend not to assume No Kill this early in the game when we have two claimed protector roles. I tend to think of intentional no kills as a late game tactic to bolster a fake claim. Because if we go after you and you flip town my first thought is going to be to go straight for Slimer. That's something scum-Slimer would know. I suppose somebody else could have thought a few plays in advance to get town in that kind of thought process, but that's something I'd only really expect from Edo out of the possible pool.

Edo makes an interesting point about possible scum-Uct targetting Mirhawk. I'm not sure that I'm buying it right now because I think there are still more likely targets, but depending on how discussion goes I might give it another thought.

zabriel · Post Post #757 (isolation #16) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:23 am

Okay, so now this leaves me with some interesting thoughts. Thor is in the pool of potential targets, so scum-Slimer is possible, but Uct is also likely, so if we're assuming Uct town I figure this makes either Mirhawk or Slimer scum. Honestly I think I prefer a Mirhawk lynch because we gain more from Mirhawk flipping scum and lose more from Slimer flipping town today. If Mirhawk flips town we can hit Slimer tomorrow and get about the same result as if Slimer flips town and we go after Mirhawk tomorrow. Conversely if Mirhawk flips scum today we still have a JK to play with. Am I making sense? Basically I see each as more or less equally likely and prefer the risk-reward on lynching Mirhawk over Slimer today.

VOTE: Mirhawk

zabriel · Post Post #758 (isolation #17) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:23 am

Okay, so now this leaves me with some interesting thoughts. Thor is in the pool of potential targets, so scum-Slimer is possible, but Uct is also likely, so if we're assuming Uct town I figure this makes either Mirhawk or Slimer scum. Honestly I think I prefer a Mirhawk lynch because we gain more from Mirhawk flipping scum and lose more from Slimer flipping town today. If Mirhawk flips town we can hit Slimer tomorrow and get about the same result as if Slimer flips town and we go after Mirhawk tomorrow. Conversely if Mirhawk flips scum today we still have a JK to play with. Am I making sense? Basically I see each as more or less equally likely and prefer the risk-reward on lynching Mirhawk over Slimer today.

VOTE: Mirhawk

zabriel · Post Post #760 (isolation #18) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:12 am

A Mirhawk town flip would give us the same thing a Slimer townflip would: a target for tomorrow. But a Mirhawk wagon doesn't run the risk of killing a claimed PR who could still be useful to us. I may be too willing to trust here, but with a no kill happening here I'm willing to give equal weight to both of your claims. I think we hedge our bets best with a Mirhawk lynch, unless I've overlooked something.

zabriel · Post Post #785 (isolation #19) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:45 am

Thor, why wouldn't scum Uct take the open shot on you and pin it on newb-scum? Since he's the claimed Doc and we knew that Slimer would be targetting off Uct. The one thing that I would say supports scum-Uct is the end of his spat with slimer where he seemed very concerned that slimer was going to block him.

Given the lack of night kill, unless scum decided to pass on killing the only scenario I'm seeing that involves Uct as scum is that he's still paranoid and gives the kill to his buddy Mirhawk and Mirhawk gets blocked. Unless Uct and his mystery partner decided to shoot at Mirhawk and Slimer made the block.

Last night this is what could have happened:
1) Mirhawk shot at somebody and Slimer made the block.
2) Mirhawk was shot at and Slimer made the block.
3) Thor was shot at and Uct made the block.off and
4) Scum decided to no kill, in which case all bets are off and we're essentially continuing Day 1, minus one townie.

I think the best course of action is to lynch Mirhawk and wait to see what happens overnight. If Mirhawk flips scum, then Uct protects Slimer or we lynch him. Slimer blocks anybody but Uct. Slimer is able to confirm one alignment every day he stays alive and nobody can do anything about it until Uct dies. If Uct is scum we'll find him out after Slimer outs the rest of the town. If Mirhawk flips town we weigh that with the night and go from there in the morning.

zabriel · Post Post #786 (isolation #20) » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:15 am

V/LA again due to broken laptop charger. I'll try to keep poking in, but if I start to seem slow again, that's what's up.

zabriel · Post Post #854 (isolation #21) » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:47 am

Basically Uct, I'm deciding to let scum deal with the pr claims. They can leave you alive to wifom all they like, but eventually they have to shoot at you or risk having no power to kill at night.

PEdit: Interesting thoughts about that. You think slimer has the sack to offer up his partner like that?

zabriel · Post Post #905 (isolation #22) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:18 am

Hey guys, my power has been out for like two days. Just got it back today.

Right now I'm remembering Leviathan's awkward goodbye to Mirhawk. All of the newb is kind of blocking my read of Leviathan. That last post was such a damn clusterfuck of words, and it's really defensive. Like way more defensive than it needs to be. From what I can tell there's not even a real answer to the question buried in there. If scum didn't bus, it's Leviathan all the way.

VOTE: Leviatha

zabriel · Post Post #908 (isolation #23) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:05 am

Are you being sarcastic, or are you seriously asking me if avoiding questions is scummy? Avoiding questions makes it seem like you have something to hide.

zabriel · Post Post #912 (isolation #24) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:36 am

There's nothing to say about the votes on me. I'm town and supported the lynch of Mirhawk based on slimer's claim and a hunch that slimer had chosen correctly. That got us a scum lynch. I don't feel the need to further defend my alignment.

zabriel · Post Post #913 (isolation #25) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:44 am

Penguin, I can see the point that Thor is making with his call for a no lynch. Basically last night got fucked up and we got robbed of information. A no lynch would just be calling a do over and forcing the lone scum to tell us something before we proceed further. I did not like the things Leviathan said at the end of yesterday and I feel he's sketchy enough to go after today.

zabriel · Post Post #914 (isolation #26) » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:59 am

Oh, I see the actual point you were making Penguin. It's been a fucked up weekend.

zabriel · Post Post #923 (isolation #27) » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:25 am

Basically Leviathan is making me uncomfortable with his playstyle. I feel like it is worth the risk. If he's scum we've got him, and if he's not that's somebody else that Slimer can target tonight. I'll vote for a no lynch if it gets a few more votes, but right now I feel comfortable voting here. Whatever happens as long as Slimer doesn't block Uct again I'm fine.

zabriel · Post Post #928 (isolation #28) » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:26 am

I'm sorry, I can't really handle Leviathan right now. His posts have too many adverbs and speech qualifiers. He is setting off a lot of my alarms and this is the lynch I'll be happiest with today.

zabriel · Post Post #931 (isolation #29) » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:46 am

Qualifiers make your speech less direct and soften your message. The only thing I'm seeing out of you is that you seem like you're trying not to stand out too much.

zabriel · Post Post #933 (isolation #30) » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:45 am

No, because your posts are clumsy and you just look like you're trying not to look suspicious.

zabriel · Post Post #940 (isolation #31) » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:20 pm

The day ends in two and a half weeks leviathan. If I'm your best target, fine. You're mine. If you can convince me of a better target that isn't Thor or a claimed PR I'll bite. If all of us are town, would you say Edo or Penguin is the better lynch?

zabriel · Post Post #942 (isolation #32) » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:30 pm

I just have town read on Thor. I feel that he's worth keeping around.

zabriel · Post Post #981 (isolation #33) » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:06 am

I've been thinking about why I'm voting for Leviathan and it's honestly just his tone and the fact that I have a difficult time reading his writing because I'm a huge grammar Nazi. I tunneled another guy in a micro game for something kind of similar and he ended up flipping town.

UNVOTE:

Assuming that Slimer is town and didn't sell his partner down the river to float by the rest of the game on the towncred, he's demonstrated some good judgment already. How serious was that "let's lynch Edo?" I've got town on Uct and Thor, and I'm willing to give null-townish on Leviathan after some thought and the last few posts. That leaves Edo and Penguin.

PEdit: @Thor - PoE is leaving me with Edo and Penguin. What do you think of Penguin, and do you still think we'd be better off not lynching today?

zabriel · Post Post #985 (isolation #34) » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:48 am

He's not winning any awards for usefulness, but he reminds me of a wordier pieceofpecanpie. It's enough to get me questioning my judgment. That farewell to Mirhawk drew an awful lot of attention, and unless he's faking the total n00b thing it seems like it would take a big pair of brass balls to avoid bussing and then saying he'll miss him. Guaranteed to sound like "I'll miss you in the scum QT tonight". Do newbscum deliberately link themselves to their partners after the lynch has gone through, or do they shut up and hope nobody asks why they weren't on the obvlynch?

PEdit: Fair enough then. PoE has left me with Penguin. If not Leviathan and not Edo, Penguin is the only option.

VOTE: Penguin

zabriel · Post Post #990 (isolation #35) » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:10 am

To your vote for a no lynch I'm presuming Thor.

zabriel · Post Post #999 (isolation #36) » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:28 pm

Alright. That's the hammer. I think this might be the game. If it's not, make sure you get us some information tonight slimer. We'll have a town yet.

zabriel · Post Post #1002 (isolation #37) » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:25 pm

That turned around pretty well. Great game everybody.

zabriel · Post Post #1010 (isolation #38) » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:55 pm

Who would you have blocked if you didn't block Uct N2 slimer?

zabriel · Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:05 am

Yeah, there was a lot of busy happening. I'm glad we nailed Penguin day 2 though. Marathon Days are for marathons. Interestingly being a lurk-sack has lead me to a few town victories when scum start doing LaL inconsistently.

zabriel · Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:26 am

But Marathon Days are a little different than normal games. It's easy to call bullshit on somebody when your last game with them was 20 minutes ago.

zabriel · Post Post #1017 (isolation #41) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:36 pm

I'm still pretty impressed that we managed to lynch Penguin with both Leviathan and I riding at L-1. Slimer's N2 action was not the choice I'd have made, but the way he interacted with Leviathan was great. This set-up was really town-sided, so scum was pretty doomed from the start. Still, it was a lot of fun. Hope to see you all around more.