Newbie 1238 - Game over!

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I guess we both came from the same place cjquines. Me too I find day starts a bit strange and I think it's harder to adjust when you're used to particular setups than complete newbies. But anyway, VOTE: Nacho because he's the IC in the game.

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unvote

VOTE: Dylan

Policy lynch please put avatars so it's easier to differentiate.

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Yay you're here

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I kinda understand Fallman on the d1 nl part, I'm used to games that do that as well. sure it's not the best way when you're playing it on forums but I understand since most of us here are newbies. That said I don't like the aggressiveness of his opinion when the game is just opening up and not all are on the discussion. Too careless for a maf, but I'll still vote to put pressure. Hope he explains himself then.

VOTE: Fallman

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Please don't hammer yet.

btw, when someone hammers for 5 votes is that automatically counts as lynch or is there still time for them to unvote

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Hmm, I dont know if Im allowed to say this but in my other game day 1 took 14+ pages of scumhunting, so definitely it was taken seriously. No sense in waiting for day 2 if you could get everyone reading and telling on the first day.

Anyway I'm sticking with my vote, I pushed it to L-1 to pressure fallman but god knows what he's doing right now.

(what happens when theyre prodded and didn't react?)

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DylanSA has been prodded.

Hmm, I dont know if Im allowed to say this but in my other game day 1 took 14+ pages of scumhunting, so definitely it was taken seriously.

Major Rules

• If a game isn't finished, don't discuss it here.

No, that is talking about that game, which needs to be confined to that game's thread. It's generally best to pretend games don't exist until they've finished. If you not sure whether something's allowed, please just ask me before posting it.

Sorry, I was just making a point since Kibble mentioned in his other games that they wait till D2 to hardcore scumhunt.

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*mentioned that in his other games

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Oh god I've been prodded, ok first of all I'll gonna post this just to not get replaced but will hopefully give a read of the newer pages sooner just kinda busy with enrollment.

Anyway I'll stay with my vote since that's the only lead unless everyone else opens some new tell then we'll see.

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I'm back. Ok, that kill surprised me but anyway now obviously I need to explain myself since I was the living FOS of Nacho.

hero immediately jumps in to make it 4, but seems to think the no-lynch idea is not so bad or at least an honest mistake, then explicitly says he thinks fallman is NOT mafia, but he puts him at L-1 to apply "pressure". This is a vote I find very suspicious. Why put a person you think is not mafia at L-1 on a whim? Either mafia or stupid townie. This is so blatantly scummy that it almost makes me less suspicious, but I think we have to judge people by their votes, and this is a terrible one in my mind.

You don't have to believe this but I didn't know I was putting him at L-1. I voted him hoping to put pressure but I wasn't taking count of the votes that I didnt know that there would be 4 votes in his place. It was careless yes still I stayed with the vote since I was confident noone a townie or a maf would go for a vote like hammer since he's be ofed the next day.
That said I didn't switch since there's not much lead to go on anyway. This is my defense take it on any way.

(is it against therules to mention you're busy rl?) This would be a tight situation Ill reread and give my thoughts on the othergoings shortly.

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cj may I ask. what spreadsheet?

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Ok. First off, I'm having double thoughts about outing every read we got so far, for one (in my another game) a non-newb said it was unnecessary to give everything out since it provides some map for the maf who to kill at night.
But since there's no way to scumhunt other than the votes and the people talking then in my opinion we should pressure those that aren't talking.

@DanyBoy: Whydid you hammer fallman aside from the reason that we need to lynch someone?

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(I don't really know how to use spreadsheets. Are there any tutorials for that?)

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My thought is that everyone is dead irl.

Danyboy, we're more at a standstill now than yesterday.

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If this goes on I might request replacement as well I was planning to v/la anyway.

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finally. woot woot hello replacements!

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Hmm.. I don't know, I kinda like the longpost by Sleepy, it does seem to go poitnting out the tiniest detail but still I take it more as persistent scumhuntting than scummy. A notell imo but certainly a welcome activity to this dragging game.

Why did you admit this vote was for pressure when Nacho had just explained that this was not a good idea?

nacho was talking about fos not vote.

Why didn't you just unvote, especially seeing as you didn't even want a lynch?

thinking back it might have been a better idea but i was pretty confident the wagon won't last long as defense of fallman will prob reveal tells and people voting others, etc. also totally didn't expect that sudden hammer.

(other replacement we're waiting for you)

@cj:

If I'm the scummiest, why are you voting Dany?

should've done this on my previous posts VOTE: Dany
@Dany: mainly because of last day. i was expecting more activity for this day since you became controversial via the hammer, i want to know what you think of the game so far.

also @elmo, is mad gonna be replaced or is he staying?

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I have a question concerning the setup for the nonnewbs but i'm worried. hmm, is it safer to message the mod or do i ask away since this is more of an educational learning game so everyone can benefit from the question?

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You voted Fallman although he wasn't a scum suspect of yours...

he was. like others i was intirgued by his post though not a pure scumtell it's still a step for d1 to put votes on foses (independent of the unintentional l-1 - which i can't prove)

If you weren't expecting a hammer, then why'd you explicitly request that nobody hammer?

whut. i was surprised at the realizeation i put him at l-1, i had confidence no hammer would occur but it doesn't mean I didn't rule it out as possible, and as you can see some players (including me) have been less than aware of what's going on. hammer out of not knowing it's l-1 is the last thing we want.

Why is it surprising? The IC tends to be a pretty logical target seeing as they are generally the most knowledgeable player.

i don't even need to answer this...

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Also, why did you not express suspicion of Dany previously?

? previously as in relative to what?

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Please point out anywhere that you expressed suspicion of Fallman ever.

While I didn't directly say I accuse him, all reasons on my vote was in the same post #35. Again I was voting for my fos/lead with no intent for it to lead up to a lynch.

Protip: Just unvote in that situation and declare intent to L-1.

yes. yes. and yes. i understand it now and i would be lying if some part of me didn't consider it and had got caught up on the moment, i kinda leaned on the 'oh wow l1, wont it be interesting if he was actually maf' of course before you again blame me for contradicitng statements(not expecting lynch but still interested on a possible lynch hurr durr), yes it was complciated like that i both didn't expect thehammer but my vote stayed because he's my primary fos. I hope i don't need to explain that again and i apologize though that really didn't help anyone especially my case for this day.

Please, answer the question about Nacho.

why? don't you see why I don't want to answer that?

Previous to you voting him.

fault of inactivity. i didnt reread and next time i logged in after night, surprise there were questions waiting for me to be answered, some time before reading last day and fossing the sudden hammer.

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..because you would expect a doc to go after him(being a seeming town IC). which means we might be in a setup where there is no doc, or there might be a doc and he didnt go for Nacho but mentioning that statement will tell me as non-doc. I'm not comfortable with that as I previously mentioned i'm more paranoid about giving maf maps esp on this type of setup, hypo on a 50-50 there is doc, then a 1/5 i'm not doc is a welcome point of consideration for nk.
yes, it's a stretch but there you go. It seems my reason wasn't as obvious as I thought it would be.

I don't know what to think of these two replacements, sleepy started with a good burst of scumhunt, i want to think as town. well it'slong and didn't fos anyone specifically but the reads are well explained. GW fossed with good reason but as I said I didn't feel comfortable answering everything (are you even required to do that or will you be 'oohh scummy' for not answering), hypoing a maf in the replacement, that would be effective rolehunting especially with the lack of activity. i guess it works for town scumhunt as well so yea notell for now on both.

I would like dany to be more active, actually is he prodded? can he be prodded. If in case he missed it my questiion would be what does he think of the game so far. I'm guesing i would be in the defensive for this day(oh fun!) unless the other start offering something to the table.

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btw GreyWing I don't know why it bothers me but why did you insist then put an instant vote to me? my denial to answer was that great of a scumtell?

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I'm back... whew!!, is it bad that I feel insecure about these replacements, they're certainly not newbs and as an original I feel responsibility to up my game. So let's see. (Also away goes my planned inquiry for Dany)
VOTE: unvote

Actually, yes you do:

VOTE: hero_bash

I answered it what now. You've been moving your votes actively on who you fos then voted me for answer and I answered. you got fos on cj and he didn't even answer it before you voting me. I'm not directing you to vote him but it seems strange that vote lied around even though we are both your fos I think you should explain more why you have that vote on me and not on cj.

[quote"sleep"]I believe Greywing just gave a perfect example of a properly execited pressure-vote. He wanted information, he voted the person he wanted it from, WITHOUT saying "this is just for pressure".
At least, I think that's what he just did[/quote]
It's not really the vote but the realization that what I thought was a reason to shut up wasn't really communicating itself as I thought it would.

For example: If Amrun was a strong townread of everyone in the game, including Doctor Quaroah, would he protect her? Think about it. The Mafia know that everyone thinks Amrun is town. So there is a high likelyhood that she is being protected. But Quaroath knows that they know this, so he may assume that they won't shoot Amrun, and thus he won't protect her. So on and so forth, WIFOMY WIFOMY WIFOM.

oh wow. thanks for that! perfect example of wifom.

I want to have something against sleepy but I can't find anything yet, he's the least suspect I have.

I wanted to, but I'm cautious with votes. But thanks for pushing me.

then votes dany while saying sleep is most scum. next post:

He's been prodded, but nothing yet. If he was scum, he'd be dead by now.

unvotes after more fos on him(by grey). but the reason, I don't understand it why would he be dead with a prod.

I would like everyone's top 2 suspects in their next post please. If that lists changes along the way before we kill the 1st scum, feel free to update the group on your new top 2. I'll do mine as well once I get caught up and have an opportunity to ask a few questions.

[quote = "IamI"]Still need Top 2 list from cj, Dany, kibbles, & hero.
Need Sleepy to round out his top 2 list as well.[/quote]
You had the chance to ask question Where's your two list? Are you planing to give yours after everyone has given theirs?

Why didn't you unvote then if you didn't rule it out as possible?

It's certainly possible but I didn't believe it to be probable, as in he would be hammered by a idk 5% chance?

for

kibbles

he's very careful on pointing out who is his fos but nonchalantly dismisses people as town(prob because he knows they are town), it's like his meter is for the towness of the person and not the summiness which is what a town would be looking for. er, I'm not sure of what I'm saying but for me while everyone is looking for every possible hole and trap other people for scumtells, he has been defending himself so far.
@kibbles: who is your 2? also what do you think of cj?

Oh he replied.. there goes my cj-kibbles.
(i'd want to quote things but it was evident for most his post when suddenly people[including me though I was happy for that] was suddenlly town but with no reason why)

well nothing with green yet..but I agree with most of what he said. actually agree that my 2fos would be the same as his, I want to explain it by my own words but I'd be repeating him. sorry. i'll try to come up with something original.

I did say he was moving up my scum list, but he truly has not done anything particularly scummy besides that hammer.

you defended your fos on him but then says:

but Johnny does not seem like a good slot to vote for

changing the names for the same thing now?
he did hammer right why isn't the position worthy of vote, note we're talking about the position not the person, of course now with my current reply i'd have to pull out the vote because of diff. person. also I'll go out of my way to defend that cj unvoted dany before he was replaced so a united effort to vote on the position of which is now a new person won't hold water if we were team. With that said I don't remove the suspicion on cj(which all will agree confuses the hell out of everyone)

my 2fos will change since kibble's reply. actually no I'll still gow ith kibbles and cj. i'd definitely expect him to vote me first since I have the last retaining vote for john/dany. voting a partner so he won't be suspected if cj does in fact get lynched?

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EDIT

(i'd want to quote things but it was evident for most his post when suddenly people[including me though I was happy for that] was suddenlly town but with no reason why)

he did hammer right why isn't the position worthy of vote, note we're talking about the position not the person, of course now with my current reply i'd have to pull out the vote because of diff. person. also I'll go out of my way to defend that cj unvoted dany before he was replaced so a united effort to vote on the position of which is now a new person won't hold water if we were team. With that said I don't remove the suspicion on cj(which all will agree confuses the hell out of everyone)

this was painful to read. I'll try to edit:
cj voted dany.
i voted dany.
cj unvotes dany. (due to critics i guess)
i still have a vote.(i wasn't around)
dany gets replaced.
(me arrives)i unvote since new person.

kibbles accuses us of scumteam, which would make sense if we still had votes on the position AFTER it was replaced.

but Johnny does not seem like a good slot to vote for. However, hero and cj seem pretty united in this effort...possible scum team?

i didn't vote johnny, i voted dany.

I'd like to add this but I was really hoping I think wishing that one of the replacements was maf. This isn't logical but Hypomaf within kibbles or cj, then another one on the replacments. If there was a maf on the replacements who would it be? A thought to ponder. Yea it's unfait and scummy limiting the fos to a select people but scum replacement would almost be forced to scumhunt, i mean to cover up for whatever there predecessors do and appear town with an advantage of 'safety' since they can judge those that were from d1. But it's still farfetchd and just another one of my newb intuitions obviously noone would be a candidate yet. so my 2fos are still the 2.

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oops seems i was quick at that i missed this

So let's ignore the fact that Dany has now been replaced by Johnny and focus instead on why he is/is not a good lynch candidate. Firstly, the scummiest thing he did was a stupid hammer.

he was good if we were basing d2 primary votes on the previous day's vote. and you're wording seems like you're trying to make it seem like I want to lynch him because of that. You missed a purpose of a vote which is to pressure someone into explaining themselves for their scummy move, if vote always equate to i want to kill that guy cause my reason is best then why aren't you calling out votes(with other purpose than to want to lynch) of the same nature. you find a common vote between me and the current major fos hurray. does that save you? we'll see.

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he was good if we were basing d2 primary votes on the previous day's vote.

and by he i meant the position not johnny because obviousl he cannot be held responsible for dany's actions.

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You unvoted in post 172, AFTER I pointed out that a Johnny vote was a bad call. And I do now realize that in 157 cj unvoted Dany/Johnny. Now all I see is scum

no. i have no way of proving it but i typed(the unvote) long before you was able to submit your reply. so while it in the forums it appears my post succeeds yours that part of my post was technically before yours - again no way of proving.

I understand that you were pressuring Dany into explaining himself. Did you really think you were going to get a better explanation than 109 and 111?

Well I hoped so or at least I hope he would show up more often.


you don't need to be a good scum to realize you should appear town and scumhunt on replacement especially when the 1st replacement jumpstarted the activity for this day.

Everyone is scum except me.

so are you fossing everyone or just the two of us?

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Guys guys I realized

everyone is town except everyone else but me

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One scummy thing in seven pages of discussion is worthy of a vote to you? A stupid thing at that? If we're policy lynching stupid decisions now this is going to be a short game.

Um yes? As I said that vote wasn't the same thing as desire to lynch him, kindof like the votes to fallman,he did one scummy and then town should express desire of analyzing him further with pressure with the votes. M vote to dany was of the same nature.

So is Grey's vote to me. Do you want to comment on that?

I'm not sure what you're getting but yea I said this before but I learned a lesson about throwing votes around.

I understand that I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but that original post by Fallman was NOT worthy of a vote. He thought that NL was our best bet, and because he was a bit arrogant in defending his idea he was at L-1 within days. He never really changed the way he talked throughout D1 and his only crime was being an arrogant newbie with a bad strategy.

No you're not beating a dead horse but bringing up a good way of antagonizing votes a posteriori.
But if you're talking about the lynch then yes that was regrettable.

I know I shouldn't hold you accountable for dany but this interest me

They say things like "Guys, this conversation is getting us nowhere, we should do some real scumhunting."

Funny dany had said something similar but with a bonus hammer attached.

One scummy thing in seven pages of discussion is worthy of a vote to you? A stupid thing at that? If we're policy lynching stupid decisions now this is going to be a short game.

Hmm.. I'm not sure if I'm not getting the point of voting in this game or.. I don't think you could equate voting and wanting to lynch, since lynching could only be attained with collective decsion to vote someone. So me voting for a fos isn't really policy lynching I wasn't even encouraging others I was following my own lead.

Are you planning on giving yours at all?

I did. cj and kibbles. and not in a way that they're team, more like one of them could be.

Clearly, the concept of a pressure vote eludes you. I wanted you to answer the question I asked. My vote caused you to answer it.

I understand perfectly what you're talking about and that's what I've been telling johnny. With that said, it's not the vote itself but prior to it you had a vote to cj probably you want something out of him, then after you vote for me and got that something out of me, your vote stays? So why did you vote cj in the first place?



btw sorry guys English isn't my main language and I was typing stream of consciousness so if I said someting that isn't clear let me know and I'll elaborate.

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EDIT

One scummy thing in seven pages of discussion is worthy of a vote to you? A stupid thing at that? If we're policy lynching stupid decisions now this is going to be a short game.

Hmm.. I'm not sure if I'm not getting the point of voting in this game or.. I don't think you could equate voting and wanting to lynch, since lynching could only be attained with collective decsion to vote someone. So me voting for a fos isn't really policy lynching I wasn't even encouraging others I was following my own lead.

Are you planning on giving yours at all?

I did. cj and kibbles. and not in a way that they're team, more like one of them could be.

Clearly, the concept of a pressure vote eludes you. I wanted you to answer the question I asked. My vote caused you to answer it

I understand perfectly what you're talking about and that's what I've been telling johnny. With that said, it's not the vote itself but prior to it you had a vote to cj probably you want something out of him, then after you vote for me and got that something out of me, your vote stays? So why did you vote cj in the first place?


btw sorry guys English isn't my main language and I was typing stream of consciousness so if I said someting that isn't clear let me know and I'll elaborate.

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just dropping by, i hate to drag this (mod how much time before deadline) but i'll answer qestions and give my thoughts probably later i after i go back home, hopefully it's still a reasonable time to contribute before we get to day's end.

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ohh.. i really hate to be doing this but i think it will benefite this game in the long run. mod please replace me, i still have an ongoing game and just plans to finish it(close to finishing) before completely going for a long time from the site. I will just get busier as classes start and i won't be able to contribute much especially if the game reaches the difficult days.