Newbie 1239 -- Game Over

[Gen_Wolf]

/confirm

[Gen_Wolf]

Hello All

I am Wolfie Your friendly and helpful IC for the game.

My job is to help teach you the theory of the game and answer any questions you might have! No question is a stupid question and I am happy to help you out. If you don't understand something don't be scared to ask as ultimately it is you who will lose out. I do not bite, I promise However, if you have any questions relating to your role or the role PM sent to you by NobodySpecial please do ask him privately as I am also playing the game.

I will explain certain things throughout the game or just give basic knowledge or reasoning if I feel it is necessary.

I follow the guide for being an IC set out on the mafiawiki. Found here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _a_good_IC. I am also joined by two extremely capable SE players (Semi-experienced) who have played a couple of games on site and will also be able to answer your questions. They are:

iStark

and

SigmaEXE003

. *clap clap clap*

Also, please do remember we are here to have fun and so are the other players around you so lets do just that It will get a bit heated at times but just remember to have fun! Lets also try be active, a fun game is an active game!

When I speak as an IC, I speak independently from my role and at no time will I use my position as an IC to bias the game! Just a heads up! Lastly just want to thank Nobody for giving up his time and moderating the game for us

Have fun!

[Gen_Wolf]

What's the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

That depends.

"Although a definitive answer would of course require further measurements, published species-wide averages of wing length and body mass, initial Strouhal estimates based on those averages and cross-species comparisons, the Lund wind tunnel study of birds flying at a range of speeds, and revised Strouhal numbers based on that study all lead me to estimate that the average cruising airspeed velocity of an unladen European Swallow is roughly 11 meters per second, or 24 miles an hour."

OR

http://www.amazon.com/Monty-Python-Grai ... B00005O3VC

Buy Monthy Python

Like i said, no question is stupid

[Gen_Wolf]

/CONFIRM

VOTE: Gen because he's the only person I recognize and he spelled my name wrong. It's "Lastsurvivor" not "iStark."

Haha sorry for the little typo their LastSurvivor... Good to play with you again but let me fix that typo for you quickly!

Vote:Last Survivor

[Gen_Wolf]

If everyone wants to answer these questions:
1. GMT +2 : The time at the beep is 16:28 - Beep
2. 19 Male
3. Town - its far easier and I have a guilty conscience - I like cop!
4. Part of the game - has to happen.
5. Mafiascum is my experience - I even survived the great crash of 2011
6. I feel it creates a false sense of scuminess - I also dont like it when people role fish and then claim innocence!
7. Whats meta? Jokes - I never look at Meta, I play the game at face value
8. Lurking is frustrating however people do have lives to live so you have to accommodate for that. I don't like lying and don't like being lied to!
9. Ah I am at uni, so when I feel like it! Could be early morning, lunch or late evening. I'm always about except weekends im usually scare due to university culture
10. Negatory!

Now, why such in depth questions. I feel like I just filled out a census.

[Gen_Wolf]

7. No idea what meta is, although I think it's judging from the person's other games? Well if it is that, I think it's not something you should look at.. I mean, I would strive to play exactly the same way I play when I am town if I was scum, otherwise it would be too easy to tell whether or not you are scum/town.

Meta is exactly that. It is when you go and find previous games that the players have player in and compare their playing style from that game to this current game to determine whether they are scum. The theory is that when people play as scum they play differently to when they are town as they are more paranoid and feel the need to play differently. At times this is true however there are clear flaws to the theory, as with most

For example, I will use myself as an example. I play each game differently and usually based on the mood I am in, thus majority of my games are different. However I have been voted out plenty of times because of my meta. It is something that happens and you'll learn to accept it but its your choice whether you want to do it or not

Hope this helps!

[Gen_Wolf]

Arugula, question number 10 on your list. Was it just for a bit of fun is there method to your madness?

[Gen_Wolf]

Nobody, can you give Sigma and HaRisk a prod please?

[Gen_Wolf]

That's in all honesty not a good way to start at all.

Gen, out of interest. What would your preffered method this game be to go about hunting the mafia members?

Like I said, I take every game at face value so I react in the moment. Usually though, there are 1 or 2 scum slips on day so you just have to be patient. Also, use the time i'm given! No point for me to rush into a vote - lynch so early on day 1.

That's in all honesty not a good way to start at all.

Gen, out of interest. What would your preffered method this game be to go about hunting the mafia members?

I'm not Gen, but I play a very gut/process of elimination (PoE) based game. Typically if I have time I'll do a reread and create some town/scum reads based on gut. Then I look through my non-town reads (null, scum reads) and go through their ISOs and decide which is most likely to be the scum.

ISOs are your friend. Don't ignore them.

You should always be looking out for things that don't make a lot of sense. When reading a post, think "What motivation does town have to post this? What about scum?" Most of the time, you'll find that both town and scum would have motivation. Think about which has more.

Gen feel free to add more. :3

@Arugula: That doesn't really answer the question.

Lastsurvivor, we need to work on this name thing Jokes

On a serious need, why did you feel the need to answer this question? Almost as if you are trying to get in front and lead town?

/confirm

Welcome, just make yourself familiar with the rules and if you have any questions please feel free to ask myself, Stigma (when he comes back) or Lastsurvivor. All are perfectly capable of helping you out! Enjoy!

[Gen_Wolf]

Two errors above *facepalm* it's to early for me to be thinking properly.

1 or 2 scum slips on day 1

And

On a serious NOTE

Apologies

[Gen_Wolf]

Gen, out of interest. What would your preffered method this game be to go about hunting the mafia members?

I'm not Gen, but I play a very gut/process of elimination (PoE) based game. Typically if I have time I'll do a reread and create some town/scum reads based on gut. Then I look through my non-town reads (null, scum reads) and go through their ISOs and decide which is most likely to be the scum.

ISOs are your friend. Don't ignore them.

You should always be looking out for things that don't make a lot of sense. When reading a post, think "What motivation does town have to post this? What about scum?" Most of the time, you'll find that both town and scum would have motivation. Think about which has more.

1. What are ISOs? (I'm assuming you mean looking through previous games?)

2. I just thought I'd say I sort of agree with you. I don't have much experience, but from the games I have played, you really do need to go with your gut, process of elimination style. You do have to look at the ones who are acting manipulative (however, it could be the cop who got a good investigation, for example), voting erratically (although they could just be "testing the waters," trying to get reactions, I mean), but since everything can all be summed into a WIFOM situation (it makes sense if he's town, but he could be scum acting as town) you really do just need to go with your gut.

Unless you're mafia, then you need to be more careful. But I have no idea how to play as mafia.

ISO stands for Isolation. It is when you view a players posts individually and no other posts are listed. Their posts are listed in chronological order.

To do this you do the following:
1.) Scroll to the bottom of the page
2.) Under the 'Quick reply' section, you will see a group of drop down lists
3.) The bottom box listed as 'Display posts by user:' and then the box next to it at present has 'All users'.
4.) From that list select which users posts you would like to see.
5.) Click 'Go' and be amazed

Hope this helps!

[Gen_Wolf]

A lot of the game is based on gut, however you cannot solely place a vote based on gut. If you lynch based on gut then you are being detrimental towards town!

You need a valid reason to vote, and come up with a reason. We all have gut feelings however justify it before you vote! (I got a raw deal in my last game because'someone had a gut feeling'... I was town thus I do not trust other peoples gut reads anymore)

[Gen_Wolf]

10. Are you scum?
Maybe.

Really?

Come on...

I also picked up on that! What are your thoughts on that Fitz?

[Gen_Wolf]

Well my thoughts are that it's too obvious to be true (saying "maybe" is basically admitting you're scum), but there's a sense of metaness to it that it could really be brave scum playing around. I'm not going to read too much into that particular action, but I will keep my eyes on Sigma.

For now, the scummiest player to me is LastSurvivor, but it's still early to really tell.

Thats a bit WIFOM isn't it though? Ah ok... I don't see the case on LastSurvivor at the moment but will keep watching

[Gen_Wolf]

The site wouldn't let me log on yesterday for some reason? I was getting worried!

Ah HaRisk, I think we need a replacement there! Also I am not happy with this lurking! :/ We wasting time now!

[Gen_Wolf]

Gen, do you have any opinions on anyone/thing other than the inactivity? Why haven't you been trying to spur discussion?

In fairness, I was restricted from sight all of yesterday! Reason? I have the slightest clue!

I will spur discussion in the morning, its the weekend and like I said I get quite aled on the weekend. However, it is not my sole responsibility to spur discussion! everyone must make the effort! will catch back up tomorrow have a good evening!

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[Gen_Wolf]

8. What are your stances on lurking and lying?
I don't mind lurking if the lurker contributes when they are here. Lying, well, you won't really know if it's a lie until it's too late, if at all. No use lingering on the past when you do find out. Of course, unless you're using to catch a scumbuddy, but don't make it a personal thing.

What about Stigma, he's only had two posts and one of them was a "/confirm". The other was when he answered the questions:

The one above stood out. I was thinking, maybe he doesn't mind lurking this game because he is involved in the scum fraction of this game? It's quite hard to get a read on someone who hasn't posted at all but him and HaRisk are the two who have posted least :/

Any thoughts?

[Gen_Wolf]

8. What are your stances on lurking and lying?
I don't mind lurking if the lurker contributes when they are here. Lying, well, you won't really know if it's a lie until it's too late, if at all. No use lingering on the past when you do find out. Of course, unless you're using to catch a scumbuddy, but don't make it a personal thing.

What about Stigma, he's only had two posts and one of them was a "/confirm". The other was when he answered the questions:

The one above stood out. I was thinking, maybe he doesn't mind lurking this game because he is involved in the scum fraction of this game? It's quite hard to get a read on someone who hasn't posted at all but him and HaRisk are the two who have posted least :/

Any thoughts?

I excluded Sigma because he had already been prodded (and has been prodded again). Doesn't seem like scum coasting, because usually they pay attention and make sure they avoid prods.

My theory might be bust though since MooseyGoosey just got prodded. I expected him to react to my post before his prod.

That said, there are a lot of people who look like they could be coasting just because of their low post counts. I don't think we can search for lulling scum yet...

The fact that no one has posted again last night just makes me upset. I think it has to be said but scum are lurking.

3 People (Myself, LastSurvivor and Fitz) have posted more than half of the game posts (If you exclude NS). The point I am trying to make is, unless your protecting your scum buddy LS, which I don't think you are I think it is safe to assume that scum is among those who haven't posted? Safe assumption?

We are pretty much 5 pages in and have nothing to go on, we might as well be in the RVS stage still :/

[Gen_Wolf]

The fact that no one has posted again last night just makes me upset. I think it has to be said but scum are lurking.

3 People (Myself, LastSurvivor and Fitz) have posted more than half of the game posts (If you exclude NS). The point I am trying to make is, unless your protecting your scum buddy LS, which I don't think you are I think it is safe to assume that scum is among those who haven't posted? Safe assumption?

We are pretty much 5 pages in and have nothing to go on, we might as well be in the RVS stage still :/

Ah I was grumpy this morning at the pace of the game, so I disagree with my own rash statement of its safe to assume scum wasn't LS or Fitz... The fact Fitz didn't comment on it makes me think so back to the beginning anyone and everyone...

[Gen_Wolf]

ALSO also, I have a 22-hour trip starting at 6:30am tomorrow (going back to Canada for a couple of weeks) so I probably won't be able to check the thread until Wednesday sometime. (I don't want to get replaced!)

No problem, as stated by Nobody in the rules, you usually have to post once every 48 hours minimum. Obviously we encourage you to post more because thats the point of the game. However, for circumstances like yours you have no need to worry. If you are going on holiday for a few days or have limited holiday (This is what is refered to as V/LA (Vacation/Limited Access) just post it in bold and the length you will be away. for future reference of course

Travel Safe though on your journey!

[Gen_Wolf]

/confirm

Hey LS a face I recognize.

Will read up on the game so far should not take too long and then it is time to get a tad more active here.

Welcome

Any questions feel free to ask! Lets just hope your more active than the last fella in your place A bunch of questions were posted on page 1 would be good if you answered those please. Also, just give your general thoughts on what has happened so far.

Thanks for replacing and have fun

[Gen_Wolf]

The fact that no one has posted again last night just makes me upset. I think it has to be said but scum are lurking.

3 People (Myself, LastSurvivor and Fitz) have posted more than half of the game posts (If you exclude NS). The point I am trying to make is, unless your protecting your scum buddy LS, which I don't think you are I think it is safe to assume that scum is among those who haven't posted? Safe assumption?

We are pretty much 5 pages in and have nothing to go on, we might as well be in the RVS stage still :/

Ah I was grumpy this morning at the pace of the game, so I disagree with my own rash statement of its safe to assume scum wasn't LS or Fitz... The fact Fitz didn't comment on it makes me think so back to the beginning anyone and everyone...

In all honesty, I don't really like what you've done here.

The statement about people being inactive are scum, and people who're not isn't, is just completely wrong in my opinion, even if it was a statement made while you were a bit annoyed. I would think that mafia would be the ones who are more interested, because they face the greater gamble in the game, atleast that is how I would feel.

I understand that you rectified yourself later on, but it does not change the fact that you(an experienced player) made such a rash statement. The second post could also perhaps be you realising you made a foolis assumption, and trying to cover it up.

Am I making any logical sense or am I just being a newbie and spewing out shiznipplets?

I'll reply to this first, firstly your making perfect sense.

The thing is, and you need to understand however "experienced" you make me out to be, experience and emotions have no correlation. I am what you could deem an "emotional player" thus if I am drunk I will post, if I am upset I will post. The fact that I am getting upset because of the lack of posts is because I don't want 12 days to roll on and we are sitting at 7 pages and now we have to lynch someone. If you think that is an adequate amount of detail to lynch someone on then you are clearly mistaken.

Yes my statement about me LS and whoever the third person was, was rash and my logic was flawed. The fact I corrected it shows that I can admit to my mistake. Why would I blatantly bring up a mistake I made if I am trying to hide away and why would I encourage play. That question if answered will be WIFOM. The point is, I am encouraging play, I got upset and made a rash statement. I corrected it.

[Gen_Wolf]

Ok lol.

Also, UNVOTE: RachMarie
VOTE: Sigma

The more I think about it, that maybe answer was pretty scummy and he hasn't posted since (I don't think so at least).

+scum points. At the time of the vote, Sigma had only answered the RQS and now 5 pages later your casting a vote on him??

... snip

As for the discussion on gut, I think it can be a good starting point, but oftentimes, people eiher use it as part of their argument, which is basically admitting you have nothing on your "reads," or develop tunnel vision on their gut scumreads and ignore their gut townreads. Basically, in the right hands, it can help you in the right direction, but in the wrong hands, it can devastate your play.

@ Wolfie Any ideas how to shake up this town and get it talking? an inactive town is not as much fun for everyone and it is particularly bad for town since it means scum can be totally lazy and slip through the cracks.

Looks like that has been done. Sigma surely did shake it up a bit!

@Gen: Can you explain the logic here:

I was thinking, maybe he doesn't mind lurking this game because he is involved in the scum fraction of this game?

And also why you mentioned that that was my stance in this game. Would that be you accusing me of lying about my stance to form an appearance of myself? If so, was there a basis for that accusation? Or did that really mean nothing and I'm looking too much into it?

3 People (Myself, LastSurvivor and Fitz) have posted more than half of the game posts (If you exclude NS).

Way to pat yourself on the back. However, out of your 20 non-confirmation posts, 7 of them were IC posts (which I won't count as content) and 7 others were essentially contentless (my numbers may be off, let's not argue semantics). I'm not saying you haven't contributed, nor will I make any accusations of your contribution relative to other players since I don't have the time for that. What I am saying is that you seemed to be pointing to yourself as one of the largest contributors, as if to gain a good reputation, when of course the IC will have more posts since they have questions to answer and people looking to them for advice.

That's all I have for now, but I'm tired. I'll see what else I can muster tomorrow, about 16 hours from now if I'm not busy.

I think that speaks for itself. I thought you were scum because you were lurking. Pretty basic.
The fact you now attack me with the accusation of "would you be accusing me of lying about my stance to form an appearance of myself" is an entertaining one to say the least. At what point did I accuse you of lying? Also as stated in my original IC post I said that I would never use my position as IC to advantage me. You are making it seem like I am which I am not happy about.

Also, my intention is not to boast about "wow I have so many posts" the point I was trying to get across is that if 3 people are able to post consistently i'm sure a few others can. Saying that however the game seems to have picked up so I am happy!

[Gen_Wolf]

In terms of my vote, it is no longer valid on LS as that was from the RVS.

MooseyGoosey has a bit of xenophobia going on

It was between Sigma and Arugula. Both deserve a vote, but for now I will wait to see Sigma's response on the above. I agree with LS on the fact that Arugula's vote is somewhat suspicious. Also, you did a good job initially on the RQS but have seemed to fade out since then.

For now

Vote: Arugula

[Gen_Wolf]

Just make sure you get your quotes right moosey! Its [/b] to close off your bolded text.

in terms of the votes on aru... Personally my vote would be considered more of a pressure vote... So if 2 more people quickly hopped on the wagon I would hop off as I don't feel its enough to be lynched on. Its to make him aware that we need motives for what he has done! He must explain himself

Offtopic quick: what uni you at? I decided too come to rhodes over ones in jhb...

[Gen_Wolf]

Ah I see, so it is because of his no-reason vote?

Oh and sorry

/unvote

Studying at Tikkies :p, although the sad part is most of my friends went to potch, which I strongly considered!

Exactly

Ah ok

[Gen_Wolf]

My job here is to explain my actions but seeing as Arugula feels no pressure i'm sure he wont mind if I leave it on then... Not my loss.

Welp there's no pressure on me now :/ Also, I already provided my reason for voting Sigma. His answers were slightly scummy. There was literally nothing else to base a vote on at the time.

You mean after his massive 2 posts count at the time? :/ Poor explanation. Try again.

[Gen_Wolf]

The point I am trying to get across is this. YOU voted STIGMA for his "I voted him because of his scummy answers and there was nothing else to base my vote on then."

You voted for Stigma at post #123. Correct?

By then, Stigma had posted twice post #13 which was his confirm. AND

Post #72 which his answer too the RQS.

So my question is:
Where in these two posts did you find what he said scummy?

[Gen_Wolf]

(Also, Gen, this may be a good time to give a run-down on WIFOM c:)

Sorry Pulcher, missed this all together.

WIFOM is when there is an arugment or discussion that is going in circle's. I have attached the link from the mafiawiki page for you though https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Wifom. On the wiki it is defined as "WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny." Hope it helps.

I hope that is helpful! If not let me know.

[Gen_Wolf]

Ah, yes...that post from Gen does seem to be popular.

I actually don't like Pulcher. In his post 151 he says that he dislikes Arugula's Sigma vote...and then goes on to vote Sigma?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pulcher

@Rach: Don't Pulcher's post by post summaries look...familiar? AKA, what I do when I'm scum (see: N1206)?

Can you explain this for the rest of us please, the part addressed to Rach?
Missed that on Pulcher to be honest.

I am also waiting for Sigma's reply to his question from Pulcher and my question to be honest. A little bit of recursion from Pulcher but it is an important question that needs to be answered. Right now I am not liking Sigma based on this post Post 136. The way he manipulated what I have said.

However, I will wait for a response from him before I do anything.

[Gen_Wolf]

@ Wolfie
I can explain that LS and I were in Newbie 1206 together it was my first game on site and first ever mafia game. I was the doc and LS was the mafia goon. He posted very much like Pulcher did.

Merci. Do you feel that is a scumtell or just coincidence?

[Gen_Wolf]

Damn, a bit of bickering has come up while I was writing that post up. So far LS is looking better than Pulcher in my eyes,

though the only thing I can be sure of is that they're on opposing sides.

(No way they would do this if they're both scum.)

**SNIP**
-----

Fitz, when you say "opposite sides," are you saying that this is a town/scum argument?

I get the impression that is exactly what he is saying.

Well at the moment I like the argument going on between LS and Pulcher, although I must disagree with the statement of 'the have to be on opposite sides'. Remember, none of us know anyone elses alignment, so while it could be bussing, it could very well also just be two townies who are having a go at eachother.

I was wondering if anyone else would of picked up on this. My thought is that maybe Fitz knows something we don't like 'the alignment of one of those players in the argument'. What I am trying to say is the potentially I believe Fitz has just made a massive scum slip outing himself and his partner, either LS or Pulcher in the process. The man himself states (where I have bolded) that the only thing he is sure of is that they are on opposing sides. The only way you would know that if you yourself were scum. Thus I believe throwing himself under the bus in the process.

Personally I feel that is a massive scum slip and I would like to follow up with:

Vote: Fitz

[Gen_Wolf]

@Pulcher

I want to ISO Rach next, I still don't like Sigma, I'm going to review Fitz to see if his past behavior lines up with that fallacy/possible scumslip, and I'm curious about Gen not taking a stance on my and LS's exchange, though he's low priority.

I feel its recursive argument. If you really want I will input my 2c's. I feel LS is taking content out of context, not all of it though. I also feel though you do not grasp the concept and points he is trying to make. At times he has valid points. I feel your getting frustrated unnecessarily and have now made it a personal vendetta to make a LS look bad. The point I am trying to make is that there is a lot of valid content in there to analyze right now I feel it is unnecessary because I want to see the flip on Fitz.

Thus no stance yet.

@Fitz

but I also think that "town slips" exist too

They do? Personally never seen a town slip before. Interesting tactic but I am sorry I just do not buy into it. Please will you offer us your thoughts on the players in the game at present. See what your views are. I personally feel you are scum but I would like to see your thoughts.

@Rachmarie

Same with everyone else what is your analysis of this argument?

You've asked the question but I think you should also answer it.

@Sigma
I feel your post in #224 is a bit redundant. However I included the words "this game" because I was referring to "this game" - that's quite funny isn't it. Quite a simple answer after such a long question you posed.

Except scum don't have daytalk here. I'm not saying Fitz's response doesn't seem off, just that it wasn't the work of a buddy.

QFE

@Lowman
Welcome to the game! Any questions feel free to ask
Enjoy!

Thats my catch up for the evening - if I have missed anything crucial or addressed at me please point me back to it!

[Gen_Wolf]

@ Wolfie
I am happy to answer it more in depth myself. Will re-read the argument and share my thoughts.

@Fitz
And I am sure that Wolfie as IC would agree with this, you do not have to claim at this point. You are at L-1 and so far no one has declared an intent to hammer. Generally, it is once someone has declared an intent to hammer that you claim. Right now discussion is important and we have time still before making a final decision on a lynch.

Exactly what Rach said here You only claim once someone has shown intent to hammer and asked you to claim. If someone quick lynches you, it is unlucky but majority of the time you will be asked to claim You did the right thing in that situation though!

They do? Personally never seen a town slip before. Interesting tactic but I am sorry I just do not buy into it. Please will you offer us your thoughts on the players in the game at present. See what your views are. I personally feel you are scum but I would like to see your thoughts.

Gen I'm very interested to see what you see in Fitz. Personally I'm not seeing anything at all.

Also, town slips totally don't exist. But scum slips don't either. They're called town tells and scum tells.

I was playing on the scum tell... Build some pressure see if anything more came out to confirm his scuminess. Now he has softclaimed a PR it kind of looks like I am wrong.

Unvote

@Low
So you think Sigma is scummy. Can you give us a case please?

@Rach
Still waiting for those answers!

[Gen_Wolf]

Sorry, what's "softclaim a PR?" I'm

assuming

it means to claim to be a special of some sort (softclaim meaning not outright saying it, and PR means ... I don't know). Is that correct?

If that is so, let me be more clear. I did not intend to "softclaim a PR." What I meant is that if my role is revealed, be it vanilla or special, it will still be advantageous to mafia to learn my role: If I'm special, obviously it's bad for mafia to know this (they will kill me in the Night), and if I'm vanilla, it reduces the pool of unknown special towns, making the chances of randomly night-killing one greater.

Yes sorry. I know it was explained but just for the record - PR is a power role (Doctor, Jailkeeper, Cop) those are considered PR's and a softclaim is when you insinuate a PR but do not necessarily outright claim it.

As for the game Mafia there are a lot of acronyms and at times we do forget there are new players so I do apologize. Obviously you are more than welcome to ask in the game but just for interests sake you might want to take a look at https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Acronyms. It has a nice list explaining all acronyms

FTR, I didn't get softclaiming a PR out of what Fitz said. I mostly got the "Scum will know my role thus making it easier to PR hunt" vibe out of it.

So...meh.

Ah, well it was quite ambiguous so I do see how it could be interpreted in many different ways.

Just wanted to drop in and say a quick hello. I'll get around to reading through this game sometime tonight or early tomorrow.

Welcome Lets hope your a little more active than the last player in your slot!

As for the rest, I will catch up this evening (GMT +2 - 13:13pm right now) have a few things I need to do!

[Gen_Wolf]

Guys, I have a massive test tonight so will catch up tomorrow! Sorry!

[Gen_Wolf]

@Everyone else: This game has not turned into the LS vs Morton show. Please weigh in. Excluding Gen who said he will weigh in tomorrow.

Thanks all for being so patient - test was alright! I hope I passed haha!

Morton, LS - that argument was... different. I must say such scrutiny of answers and if I had to be honest I lost interest halfway through. It lost relevance somewhere in the middle. However, what I did pick up from it was a lot of people think Morton (or the slot morton is playing in) is scum. Quite frankly I thought Sigma was scum from the get go and if you refer to LS point of scum lurking and he has listed 3 examples it is true. However, you cannot apply the playstyle of one or multiple peoples game to another person. Thus I feel the point of Sigma lurking put out by LS cannot be taken into account.

However, Morton & LS I feel it became highly repetitive and more personal than actually related to the game so for now I cannot put a vote based any of that content. I am not saying that Morton isn't scummy becuase I thought Sigma was but I will not place a vote based on that argument.

Morton, I am interested in the whole RachMarie vote. I would like to see your case on that when you can please

@Morton, again sorry, why did you ask LS and Rach those questions? Reaction test?

@Arugula you haven't said much recently or very little please give us thoughts, any questions? Do you think LS is scum because I feel that is what you insinuated in post #306? Conversely if you feel he is scum like you insinuated why have you not shown intent to hammer?

[Gen_Wolf]

Umm Wolfie on that last part did you mean Conversely if you think he (Morton)? cause Morton who used to be Sigma is the only one at L-1 not LS?

I did! Apologies

[Gen_Wolf]

EBWOP: No I didn't my post is correct? What do you see as wrong?

[Gen_Wolf]

Umm Wolfie on that last part did you mean Conversely if you think he (Morton)? cause Morton who used to be Sigma is the only one at L-1 not LS?

Sorry your 100% correct! I had just woken up from a nap and you confused me! What i meant was

"Do you think LS is scum because I feel that is what you insinuated in post #306? Conversely if you feel he isn't scum like you insinuated why have you not shown intent to hammer Morton?"

Sorry for any confusion, if im confused and I wrote it imagine how you guys feel! So sorry!

Will address the rest later!

[Gen_Wolf]

Umm Wolfie on that last part did you mean Conversely if you think he (Morton)? cause Morton who used to be Sigma is the only one at L-1 not LS?

Sorry your 100% correct! I had just woken up from a nap and you confused me! What i meant was

"Do you think LS is scum because I feel that is what you insinuated in post #306? Conversely if you feel he isn't scum like you insinuated why have you not shown intent to hammer Morton?"

Sorry for any confusion, if im confused and I wrote it imagine how you guys feel! So sorry!

Will address the rest later!

I don't think LS is scum. I didn't mean to insinuate that.

I haven't shown intent to hammer Morton until Rach pointed out that Amished tell. That is a very good tell and I think it almost always gets scum.

Morton, I want you to claim because I am expressing intent for a hammer.

Ah ok, just checking.

As for the bolded part I will answer it at the bottom

A few people for now:

Fitz

:

I think you take votes against you too personally. You had a FoS on LS because he voted for you, Moosey only went on your radar when they voted for you, and the same goes with Gen. Most people voting for you in this game are going to be fellow townies thinking they caught you doing something suspicious. Someone voting for you doesn't necessarily mean they are scummy.

Damn, a bit of bickering has come up while I was writing that post up. So far LS is looking better than Pulcher in my eyes, though the only thing I can be sure of is that they're on opposing sides. (No way they would do this if they're both scum.)

I didn't read this as a scum slip and I believe you explained yourself adequately in post 211.

Your reads list has a lot of people leaning scummy for you. What of RachMarie's play this game reads town for you? Any particular things she has said?

I also noticed your vote isn't on anyone. Are you just as suspicious of Mort as many others are?

Pulcher

:

I didn't read his responses in the early game as summarizing or anything similar, and I don't much care for the comparison being made with Lastsurvivor's game play which was partly responsible for starting the mini bandwagon attempt on him. His reaction to Lastsurvivor's posts read as frustration to his aggressiveness. I don't think either LS or Pulcher reacted very well with each other, the only difference being Pulcher not being good as an arguer.

Also, I didn't really care for the whole ~reasons~ thing, but that isn't a scum tell or anything. It's just not good game play.

Pulcher - After the episode with LS, you haven't been commenting or contributing as much we you did prior. Do you believe Morton to be scum? Who else reads scummy to you? I'd like to hear more of your reads on others.

UNVOTE: Fitz for now. Also, I'd advise against hammering anyone at this very moment. I'd like some time to examine what's going on and there are a few others who are away right now and haven't posted much.

Nice contribution. Welcome to the game

Also please make it quick, we are running out of time!

Sure i'm VT. Hammer me and lynch the obvious scum team tomorrow please.

I actually believe you.

So remove intent to hammer.

Seemed a little opportunistic. You said Rach had a very good scum tell and all he says is I am VT and you believe him?

@Jal, Can you do morton/sigma (same person, same slot) next please?

[Gen_Wolf]

I have read the rest I just want to help Fitz out first!

I don't know if I just suck at this game or maybe it's that I just don't have the time to analyze every single post, but I kind of feel like there's

too much

talking going on. This is great for scum, because people like me get confused (and WIFOMed) easily.

I'd rather we all just straight-up list off who we think are scummy and who we think are townie, then make a vote (or not, if you're not sure).

Don't get demoralized! Like all things it doesn't happen over night! The more you play the better you get. You haven't been playing badly at all, I get the impression you feel threatened and scared. If you don't take chance's you won't learn and that is the point of a newbie game. To learn. We have all been in your position and if there hadn't been this massive crash I would of pointed you in the direction of my first newbie. The problem with the bolded part is Mafia itself. We can't all be straight up and honest because scum will just lie and win, hence why there is so much discussion!

I tend to look at each player and who they are fighting with/accusing, and separate each pair into a good/bad pile accordingly. I know someone said that scum do sometimes bus, talk to, harass, etc. each other to throw off the scent, but I just don't know if I'm going to buy it for this game. One reason I believe this is, again, because there's just too much bitching back and forth. It's too extreme for me to believe they're only doing it to throw town off their scent.

LS vs Pulcher or Morton vs Rach... in both of these face offs, it could be that they're both town or (more likely, in my opinion) one is scum. I know I'm repeating myself from before, but this is just how I "scumhunt." (I don't really know how to scum hunt, I usually look at votes and accusations rather than "slips" or tells.)

We all have our own methods of doing it just try not to get WIFOM'd so much. If you read something and have a thought or question, put it to the floor. Try take control and be a little more assertive however finding scum isn't easy so you do have to work a little!

I feel like my safest bet for a vote is on Morton. He took over for Sigma, who came off as scummy to me. If he's scum, he has a hard time trying to reverse the reputation Sigma left for him, and I feel like he's not doing a very good job of it. If I joined mid-game and got a mafia card, I'd do whatever I can do to suck up to the rest of the players because who knows what mistakes the person before me made.

I do have my suspicions towards a couple others (Moosey for one, as I've stated earlier), but they don't seem to be generating enough heat for it to go anywhere. That said, I also don't want to be the hammer that puts a townie to sleep (if Morton is town, I mean) so, I'm still undecided. I really just don't want to be solely responsible for Morton's fate.

Just for fact, I believe Moosey replaced out and JAL has now taken his place. As for voting Morton if you feel he is scum then vote him, you are as much responsible for his fate as the other 5 (in this case) people on the wagon. However, before you ever hammer show intent to hammer, let him claim (which he has done already in this case), let him say some last words and if you still think he is scum then vote him. Saying that though, do not feel scared to change your mind. If he has convinced you that he isn't scum don't vote him for the sake of voting him because ultimately that will affect town! Just never get lazy whilst playing MS!

Hope this helps, I haven't re-read it but I hope it all makes sense
/IC OFF

[Gen_Wolf]

My final exam is tomorrow, so I'm being a bit of a slow-poke getting content out today. Per Gen_Wolf's request:

Sigma/Mort

:

The Sigma/Mort slot doesn't feel scummy and I'm weary of the votes on him. A big part of my reasoning is because I interpret Sigma's lack of contribution as being not so much a lurker, as just not even being here. His responses mainly following a mod prodding him is a big indicator of that. I also interpret the aggressiveness he displayed as being part of his posting style. Regardless, Sigma hadn't posted enough for me to read his alignment as being either way.

I don't understand the problem with Mort's posts. Due to the lack of content in this thread, conversations that have transpired days ago for everyone else only occurred a few pages back prior to Mort's posting. Not a lot of stuff occurred in-between LS and Pulcher's walls and Mort coming here, especially if one doesn't buy into Fitz's "scum slip." Also, it's difficult to come out with "new" information on LS when he barely contributed to the thread after the Pulcher ordeal until his vote on Sigma. The reasoning behind voting on Mort because of this is weak.

I find Sigma and his style, plus rage quitting when some votes piled on him to be far more scummy, hence that is where my vote is. So far, the Morton vs LS argument has not given me enough to convince me that the slot is town.

How do you interpret Sigma's quitting as "rage quitting?" You tend to go to extremes. You did it similarly when calling Pulcher's posts "screaming at LS" and "caps rage." I can't tell whether you're trying to strengthen your points towards someone by doing this or you're purposely trying to lead town to feel similarly.

Thank you, sorry about that good luck for your exam!
To be honest, you are now doing what Rach is being accused of, just stating facts and not really taking a stance. I do however realise you have a test tomorrow so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now!

You're basically right with Pulcher, but not with Sigma. There's no way we can really tell if it was because of our questions or some extraneous issue.

I agree with this. QFE.

You nailed it on the head there. Rach has been doing what LS said is scummy. But, from LS's point of view, I'm guessing he believes Rach hasn't done anything else worthy of a vote, and linking to posts isn't enough by itself. However, I don't think that they are scum partners. It would be too obvious.

I disagree completely. If I see someone doing something that I thing is scummy i'm going to call them out on it regardless of whether or not I place my vote on them. That's a big part of scumhunting; picking out nuances in people's play even if you aren't comfortable building a complete base on them for being scum.

I don't understand what you mean when you said it would be too obvious either, perhaps you could clarify?

Scum partners aren't going to blatantly side with each other during the game. They bus, ignore, and generally try to not be connected to their partners. Rach and LS, who I think are good players, have been doing the opposite of this.

So are you saying that LS/Rach are not a scum team or both are not scum? Can you just round your points up with facts. You always leave them in a very ambiguous way :/

Let me make this clearer then Morton,

I think that LS is more likely to flip town than you from your posting plus the way that Sigma responded to a bit of pressure. its a total package for the slot, and yes I think your vote on me is because I voted you. I think you are the one grasping at straws here.

Rach contradicting you already, she is taking a stand.
Personally I do not see the case on Rach.

@Morton, you requested a case by Rach on you. I would like to see on of Rach by You?
Saying that Rach, we need a proper case not a summary of what you read? Else I will start thinking that Morton has a point.

I think that LS is more likely to flip town than you from your posting plus the way that Sigma responded to a bit of pressure.

How is this relevant towards anything?

its a total package for the slot, and yes I think your vote on me is because I voted you. I think you are the one grasping at straws here.

You shouldn't mind a 1 for 1 then, right? I flip town we lynch you, deal?

You, as well as I do, know that this is just a bad idea. I do not agree with this.

Quite frankly, I agree with Fitz and the other 4 people on the wagon in saying that Morton is scum and as he so nicely put it "grasping at straws". In fairness, I did show my suspicions towards him a few days ago however, and if you rememeber me saying, I let him slide for a while to see what action has developed. Quite frankly all I want from you now is
A list of town to scum players. If you do flip town would be nice to know your thoughts on the day.

PEdit: Please point me to your case - I must of overlooked it - Can you please give me your post with town to scum?

[Gen_Wolf]

Gen you seem to be doing a lot of ICing and not a lot of scumhunting.

What do you think of my case on RachMarie?

Because that is my job - and if you actually read my opening post you would see that I stated, and I will quote for you:

When I speak as an IC, I speak independently from my role and at no time will I use my position as an IC to bias the game! Just a heads up! Lastly just want to thank Nobody for giving up his time and moderating the game for us

Thus the fact you even insinuate that shows you are truly grasping at straws

[Gen_Wolf]

Thus the fact you even insinuate that shows you are truly grasping at straws

Holy fuck what am I grasping at straws with?

I DIDN'T EVEN ACCUSE YOU OF ANYTHING. WHAT THE FUCK AM I GRASPING AT?

I've never been more tempted to self hammer just so I don't need to beat my head against the wall anymore. This is the most frustrating game i've ever played.

Then why did you even make that comment if it had no meaning? It was 100% unnecessary!

[Gen_Wolf]

Jal! Ill answer you just now! On my phone, reception is bad

[Gen_Wolf]

Just wanted to post this quickly before going to bed.

Gen_Wolf

:

My stance on Mort is

The Sigma/Mort slot doesn't feel scummy

Due to the reasons I outlined within the same post 349.

Fitz doesn't seem scummy due to the scumslip Moosey (the person I replaced) voted him for, so I unvoted him. Waiting on more content from Pulcher.

Meanwhile: Do you agree with what Rach has been accused of doing?

Fitz

: Don't be afraid to vote for who you think is scummy. I think LS took his vote off of Mort, so it should be safe to place a vote back onto him if that is where you feel it belongs.

Mort

: I think you need to take a little break to clear your head. Although I agree with some of your points, you are letting a bad attitude get in the way of people seeing your side. People didn't like Sigma's attitude, so when they see posts such as "I really hope you're not town, for your own sake" people immediately connect that incendiary statement back to Sigma.

Looking forward to some ISOing results from Rach. Going to do my own and place my vote tomorrow.

Yes. She doesn't take enough of a stance but nor does Fitz. I think its a null tell. But she also does give thoughts, ask questions and try to get a direction going. Its a tough one but I don't think its enough to put a vote on just yet.

As for Morton's stunt of "If i flip town then we vote Rach" I do not agree with because at the end of the day if they are both town, us townies lose out. However, if Morton does flip town I am more than willing to look at Rach as a candidate a long with a scum team of Rach/LS. However, there is no point in discussing what is going to happen in D2 when D1 hasn't even ended!

Morton, I am not going to hammer you now because I want to see use all the time we have and see if there is any truth in your statements. Wouldn't be fair to not give you the chance if you are townie. Thus deadline is in 4 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes. Just know that theoretically my vote is on you at the moment but I will give you time! Is that chilled?

[Gen_Wolf]

Mort: I think you need to take a little break to clear your head. Although I agree with some of your points, you are letting a bad attitude get in the way of people seeing your side. People didn't like Sigma's attitude, so when they see posts such as "I really hope you're not town, for your own sake" people immediately connect that incendiary statement back to Sigma.

Yeah I have a bad habit of letting my emotions cloud my judgement and I often make rash posts.

This I can relate too. I feel that a lot of the time so I know that feeling and it does give you town points in all honesty.

Then why did you even make that comment if it had no meaning? It was 100% unnecessary!

Because people keep coming into this thread ignoring things that i'm saying just because i'm their primary scum suspect. You've been active but haven't commented on my case on RachMarie and it was starting to irk me.

I apologize for that, I do not do it intentionally I promise. Please do point me to the post/s where your case on Rach are and I will comment on them post by post or point by point.

As for Morton's stunt of "If i flip town then we vote Rach" I do not agree with because at the end of the day if they are both town, us townies lose out. However, if Morton does flip town I am more than willing to look at Rach as a candidate a long with a scum team of Rach/LS. However, there is no point in discussing what is going to happen in D2 when D1 hasn't even ended!

See, this is my problem right here. I'm accused of tunneling, and yet we aren't even allowed to discuss other potential scum suspects unless I flip town? What's the point of not hammering me immediately if nothing I say is even going to be taken into account until I flip?

Here again, I have been very accommodating and gave you time to prove your point and let you prove to me that you are not scum. Quite frankly you have proven that you are very likely not scum. I even stated that there is no point in discussing D2 until D1 is finished. That statement in no way implicated you as the prime target of D1 it was a mere statement that players were getting a head of themselves and starting to think about D2 rather than conclude D1. In essence I feel I was helping you more there that hurting you?

@Morton: You're not at L-1. I unvoted you...so no one can hammer you ATM.

I completely missed your unvote, sorry.

As well I completely missed this.

PEdit: Please point me to your case - I must of overlooked it - Can you please give me your post with town to scum?

It's hard to build a solid case on the premise of someone scum hunting. It's a case built on the fact that nothings there; and as such it's extremely difficult to point to specific instances and say "Here is X where she is scum", but rather you need to look at her overall play to see how extremely noncommittal she's being and just how much she's posturing scum hunting.

As towards a list of who I think is scum and who I think is town, sure why not:

Town to scum:

Jal
Fitz
Arugula
LastSurvivor
Gen_Wolf
Pulcher
LowMan
RachMarie

As with your list I am happy with it, obviously other than me. The other person I feel who is quite high who shouldn't be is Arugula. I have my suspicions about him however i will sort that out in the morning.

Anyways, like I said I play this game anywhere anytime. Right now its 2am and I just got home from a night out so im sure you can work out what that means. Any issues or errors please just let me know and I will clarify them for you! Sleep tight all

[Gen_Wolf]

As with your list I am happy with it, obviously other than me. The other person I feel who is quite high who shouldn't be is Arugula. I have my suspicions about him however i will sort that out in the morning.

Yeah I agree. I haven't given Arugula's slot the proper attention it deserves, he definitely deserves a reread on his ISO.

I apologize for that, I do not do it intentionally I promise. Please do point me to the post/s where your case on Rach are and I will comment on them post by post or point by point.

LS does a good job of breaking down the case in #386; and my initial case on her was in #322.

Merci - Will look now.

I'd like to hear what you have against me.

Why do you assume I have anything against you? All I said was that I haven't given your slot the proper attention it deserves; hence why I was more inclined to place you higher on the list rather than lower.

Is there something I

should

have against you?

I was talking to Gen.

Well nothing at the moment. I just said I am suspicious of you along with every other single player in the game. Just said I would read over your ISO this morning?? I will let you know if I find anything.

[Gen_Wolf]

Morton, I am interested in the whole RachMarie vote. I would like to see your case on that when you can please

RachMarie hasn't made a significant stance on anyone this entire game. If you look at her ISO, the only two votes she has placed were really weak votes. She voted Pulcher after LS already voted for her, and she voted Sigma just as a pressure vote. Outside of that, she hasn't done a single bit of scumhunting this entire game.

Her post #303 reaffirmed my suspicion that she isn't willing to put her foot in the water regarding any issues.

She's scum trying to be as noncommittal as possible. I like my vote where it is.

Your entire case is based off the fact that she doesn't want to take a stance which yes does come across in a negative manner. However, to really base a lynch on that is quite harsh. It will be interesting to see her ISO's later. See what crops up. I feel you could have a point here Mr Morton.

So why do I think you're playing worst? :/

VOTE: RachMarie

Bahbah reasons...

1) In most of her posts she doesn't take a stance on issues. She has taken a stance on Pulcher and the Sigma/Morton slot. However, Rach was kind of sheeping the Sigma wagon (she called it a "pressure vote").
2) She's been using a few unfair points against Sigma. I.e: In post #128 she bolded that Sigma preferred playing scum, as if we're supposed to think it's important. Then of course there's when Rach accused Sigma of rage quitting...which we can't really prove. :/
3) This is one of the posts I dislike the most. When Morton asked to post examples of scumhunting, Rach posted a bunch of things that couldn't be considered scumhunting at all along with the true scumhunting examples. A few examples are #175 (second paragraph), #190 (the first paragraph), #222, etc. A few more of the posts that she posted are hardly scumhunting.

With point 2 you must remember this is a newbie game so something like that she might feel is very important where as the rest of us see it as a null tell? I am not defending her at all just stating that thought. I agree with point 3 though. That "Scum hunting" wasn't anything close to it. However I would like to see her ISO's tonight and then I will base my vote on that.

To sum up, I think you have a point Morton. Sorry it took so long to read!

Anyways,
@Everyone -
Thoughts on Arugula?

I read his case and there was nothing to find because well he hasn't written much at all. I do not know if this is him just trying to avoid a scum slip by writing less or if it is just his scum tell. I also don't see him encouraging game play so I am skeptical of him on the basis of how he constructs his posts. His content in the posts seems fine but I would like a second or multiple opinions please?

[Gen_Wolf]

Rach - do you have those ISO's are coming.

Fitz, in terms of your theory I know what point you are trying to get across but you can never be sure! Every game is different and however likely that you presume scum is on your or another persons bandwagon you can never ever be certain. However if you work it out using probability it would suggest that your theory is correct but for instance you might have two scum on a bandwagon or none... Always depends.

Try not let things like that cloud your judgment! Play the game at face value!

Deadline is getting close - anyone else take a look at Aru? Also can the others add there opinions on mortons case on Rach please?

[Gen_Wolf]

Lol at LS above.

Anyways, guys/girls I have read through what has happened but I am not in the best state to respond now! Will do it ASAP in the morning and then put my vote down as deadline is approaching! Hopefully by then Rach has given her ISO's...

Sorry Jal, I don't mean to do that! I do post my thoughts I just don't sum it up always... I kind of presume that people assume which direction I am heading. I will give you clear concise thoughts in the morning as well

Sleep tight all

[Gen_Wolf]

Ah well with deadline approaching quite frankly I still do not see Rach as scum! I might be wrong but I am not willing to put my vote on her sorry.

I feel your case of - she doesn't post enough content! Which she hasn't been is now rescinded due to the fact she just posted an ISO on every single player. I feel she thinks she is posting enough content when she actually isn't and I think the ISO's, even though they took a while to get, show that she isn't trying to hide.

Anyways, my vote will be on aru

Vote:Arugula

His posts are always short, I get the impression he is trying to make himself known and make us think he is involved but he lacks drive and I never see him going out of his way to ask questions (other than RQS) or motivate town to scum hunt. His posts always are short and not very indepth - I think he is scum just trying to fly under the radar!

[Gen_Wolf]

Ah well with deadline approaching quite frankly I still do not see Rach as scum! I might be wrong but I am not willing to put my vote on her sorry.

I feel your case of - she doesn't post enough content! Which she hasn't been is now rescinded due to the fact she just posted an ISO on every single player. I feel she thinks she is posting enough content when she actually isn't and I think the ISO's, even though they took a while to get, show that she isn't trying to hide.

Anyways, my vote will be on aru

Vote:Arugula

His posts are always short, I get the impression he is trying to make himself known and make us think he is involved but he lacks drive and I never see him going out of his way to ask questions (other than RQS) or motivate town to scum hunt. His posts always are short and not very indepth - I think he is scum just trying to fly under the radar!

Baaaa baaaa.

The way that this wagon came up seemed very orchestrated. Gen said that people need to look into my slot, and now there is a bandwagon forming. Of course, anyone who was scummy before this revelation shouldn't even be considered for a lynch at this point. That would actually be productive.

O sorry! I will stop scumhunting then because it has absolutely no relevance to the game? I am playing the game and I think your scummy - how is that orchestrated?

[Gen_Wolf]

And in terms of that last sentence who are you referring too?

Everyone who had a wagon on them actually defended themselves rather than complained about it bar you and Rach - thus at this present time we have two wagons forming.

On you and Rach! So come back with a counter argument rather than complain because all you did there was just make yourself look more scummy and I am convinced now that you are scum. If Rach gets lynched today I can promise you my vote will be on you tomorrow as well!

[Gen_Wolf]

Welcome back all!

I was suspicious of Lowman for that quicklynch but he has given a reason and he was honest in saying that he still would of hammered. I am still unsure though!

@Morton, your thoughts on what happened over night. I never saw a Fitz kill coming? To be honest i assumed you or lastsurvivor?

@Nacho, I know your new and you said you will do a catch up but anything in particular stand out? Also what time zone are you in please so we can know when to expect your presence Thanks!

[Gen_Wolf]

A few things first.

Gen_Wolf

- Still looking for those

general thoughts

concerning others in the game.

Lowman

: Why did you come in and hammer Arugula without saying anything else along with it?

I'm going to re-read the last few pages and I'll be back in a bit.

Alright well here you go:

Pulcher - I thought was scum
Nacho - Took Pulchers place so lets see how that spot turns out so right now a null.
Jal - Strong Town
Morton - leaning town
LS - Leaning town
Rach - Leaning scum
Lowman - Comes into the game and quicklynches... scum by my accounts.

To be honest, if I had my way, (which I don't because then this game would be pointless ) I would rather have a lowman or pulcher/nacho lynch today. More lowman.

If I missed anyone it means they should post a little more because you have done nothing significant to benefit town...

Well, there's my something. Not really what I was hoping for. Got anything else for us Rach?

VOTE: RachMarie

Shouldn't have let this go yesterday really. :/

I dislike Gen asking Morton to provide nightspec.

I'd expect an IC to know that's generally useless.

I disagree 100% and the fact you believe that is ignorant. Any information is information. Yes, me asking Morton what he thinks of the NK's isn't going to magically turn up our two scummy culprits but it isn't doing anything detrimental to town? And like I said I was expecting you or Morton to be NK'd not Fitz. Fitz was hardly involved in D1 hence it makes me think why him? You understand now LS?

O and FYI because I am an IC doesn't mean I am a super perfect player who knows everything KK cool!

Anyways, for now I am going to vote

Vote: Lowman

- still dont like that quickhammer mate!

[Gen_Wolf]

And like I said I was expecting you or Morton to be NK'd not Fitz. Fitz was hardly involved in D1 hence it makes me think why him? You understand now LS?

Why do you think I was a potential night kill target? And why are you so blindly ignoring the fact that Fitz soft claimed his PR pretty obviously and then attempted to backtrack out of it...Are you intentionally playing dumb?

I also don't understand your sudden desire to lynch Lowman ahead of anyone else. His hammer without a claim wasn't even that bad considering there was only a couple hours left until the deadline and a lynch needed to happen asap. His actions weren't ideal, but to immediately jump on them as automatic scum is pretty scummy in itself.

Forgot about the softclaim to be honest... Ah well explains that! You and LS were the noisiest people in D1... Just an assumption, but with the softclaim it now makes sense.

As for lowman, a lynch was needed yesterday but the circumstances it happened in and if I didn't 'automatically jump on people for being scummy' as you put it then nothing would happen now would it? Anyways, the lowman thing isn't going to happen so might as well put Rach at L-1...

Vote: Rach

Rach is at L-1

[Gen_Wolf]

Rach, really sorry to hear! Hope all works out well!

His hammer without a claim wasn't even that bad considering there was only a couple hours left until the deadline

What? This is wrong. No one else give LowMan any false benefit because of this statement. I believe we had about 30 hours left to go.

Gen

- Your sudden switch in votes doesn't make sense. It's been, what? Two days since the game has opened up?

You'd rather either a Nacho or LowMan (your two most likely scum candidates) lynch today, but you're ultimately voting for someone else who is not either of these two? And setting up a quick hammer for no good reason?

Everyone stop acting scummy on D2.

I explained it. Morton seems so adamant to vote Rach, and even though its a I do not believe in I was just giving the man what he wants else he isnt happy. Yes, those two (well pulcher, havent seen nacho yet) are my leading scum spots and your right i'll vote for him!

It was more to make a point to morton that he needs to stop having tunnel vision!!!

Vote: Lowman

where my vote should be.

What ever you say to Morton and whatever reasoning you give him he just throws it out because all he wants is to see Rach dead and that is a lynch that I don't think is right! Thanks for getting my head back on right Jal.

Anyways, i gave you my scum reads who are yours Jal?

[Gen_Wolf]

That's good enough for me.

Gen, you aren't making much sense.

To be honest,

if I had my way, (which I don't because then this game would be pointless )

I would rather have a lowman or pulcher/nacho lynch today. More lowman.

This reads like a scum slip to me.

Please explain how that is a scum slip... It was actually meant to be a bit of dry humour... tounge in cheek... Pretty much if I had my way I would do what I want but then it takes away the point of the game? Make more sense now or? I would love to know how you get scum slip though?

[Gen_Wolf]

What? This is wrong. No one else give LowMan any false benefit because of this statement. I believe we had about 30 hours left to go.

I'm almost positive that it was less than a day, at the very least. I can't tell because of the way that deadlines are set up.

I explained it. Morton seems so adamant to vote Rach, and even though its a I do not believe in I was just giving the man what he wants else he isnt happy. Yes, those two (well pulcher, havent seen nacho yet) are my leading scum spots and your right i'll vote for him!

It was more to make a point to morton that he needs to stop having tunnel vision!!!

How is pursuing my most viable scum candidate tunnel visioning? Are you saying that if a lynch doesn't happen right away I need to stop pursuing that target?

Explain to me anything that i've ignored in favor of just "tunneling" Rach, please.

Im just saying I think you struggle to listen to other peoples opinions of other players! Anyways it doesn't matter...

[Gen_Wolf]

Nacho

:

You're also calling people town with weak reasoning, giving weak scumreads, you're not meticulous at all... Lord.

Is this reasoned in comparison to your previous game with each other, or from what you've read in-thread?

What's the difference?

I explained it. Morton seems so adamant to vote Rach, and even though its a I do not believe in I was just giving the man what he wants else he isnt happy. Yes, those two (well pulcher, havent seen nacho yet) are my leading scum spots and your right i'll vote for him!

It was more to make a point to morton that he needs to stop having tunnel vision!!!

Wait, what? You put Rach at L-1 to point out to morton that he's having tunnel vision? And then as soon as you're questioned on it, you immediately back down?
What?

Because I don't believe in a Rach vote. Unless lowman did his quickhammer trick again I would of unvoted as soon as there was an intent to hammer. It was to make a point. I've explained it all.

LS this isn't called Cryptic mafia. Share.

Sorry, I think I missed this part but does Nacho thing Rach is scum or not scum?

[Gen_Wolf]

LS this isn't called Cryptic mafia. Share.

What do

you

think I mean?

Well I don't know hence why I asked you... I assume that was a rhetorical question and your insinuating that I am scum but then this is just going to end in a WIFOM situation with you saying that you never thought that even though you did.

Your now being unhelpful to town. If we all played mafia like that then nothing again would get done. Your D2 play has been severely different to your D1. Almost as if your stalling play?

[Gen_Wolf]

@Jal: ISO #0 - #5 are all good. Also, what's different about Rach's play in 0397 (the game I played with her) and her play here?
@Gen: Generally good answer up until the second paragraph. It's somewhat incorrect. I was going to say you were scum regardless of what you said...but you can't really take my word for it. Anyvay, second paragraph's not that good though. Am I suddenly scum now, Gen?

Cryptic mafia is actually quite fun Except I am the target of it! But I would be interested in seeing the case you have please.

Ya, second paragraph was a tiny vent, anyways let me stand for my actions and justify it. I do not think your scum still. I just think in general the game has slowed down. We are all culprits for it and the only reason I am annoyed by this is because scum can fly under the radar and not post and justify it by saing that no one else is posting. Thus if townies keep posting it forces scum to post and thats when scumslips and information are revealed. So yes, I am a little upset there was a massive 1 whole post last night/yesterday(whatever time zone your in ).

[Gen_Wolf]

Rach what do you think of Gen?

I think Gen is awesome.

However my choice of vote has nothing to do with Wolfie's alignment,

Hmm...I don't think anyone ever said it did.

Anyway, fair point about Jackal. Do a Gen ISO asap. :3

You are asking everyone else for an opinion of me yet you still have not provided one yourself? Please give me something that I can defend myself against... Right now its like propaganda. Just rallying the troops ready for yet another mislynch!

Anyways, I still do not feel Rach is scum and I think jackel's quickhammer has been overlooked considerably! I will not be getting involved in her lynch as I feel it will be another mislynch!

@LS case please...

[Gen_Wolf]

Yesterday you were nagging me. I felt you were ICing more than you were actually playing. The things you did jump on were fairly weak, e.g., Fitz's "scumslip." You were indecisive on my argument with Morton, which also bothered me yesterday.

Today you've been acting odd. Like you said to me, your play has been different. Mainly, your vote on Rach has bothered me the most today. I don't buy that you voted her just to make a point.

Is this not good enough for you, Gen...?

Did I not respond to this already?

If not here you go:
Like I said, me being an IC will no way influence my gameplay, It turned out that we have a few noobies in their first game or asking questions. I answered them. That is my job, you could of done it for me as your an SE and then I wouldn't of had to. I feel this point is null and I shouldn't need to defend my position as an IC?

I felt, I built cases yesterday. I thought Fitz had a scum slip and I built on it. Secondly, I built the case on Aru (yes it turns out he was townie) however how can you say I didn't take a stand when I started the case and the people after me were the ones hopping on a wagon i created. I am not proud of it because it voted a town member off but the point is I actually tried unlike others.

I did take a stand on you and Morton. I said your argument was pointless and that I would not be getting involved because it was a secular argument that just went in the biggest circle I have ever seen in Mafia. It got to the point where you were listing post by post summaries to prove your point over a single word and you want to tell me that is beneficial to the game? Why do i have to pick a side?

As for me playing differently. I must admit, for some reason I do not start days well. I get all jumpy and nervous thus I do stupid things such as the Rach thing. However, with the rach thing I was trying to make a point to Morton, I would never of let her get lynched and would of unvoted as I keep saying I do not believe she is scum but the point I was trying to make to him was just listen to other peoples opinions. He was so adamant that she is scum and that we must lynch her NOW it got frustrating. In hind sight I realise it is a completely stupid way to make my point but what is done is done.

@LS - Anyways, sorry if I missed it the first time but I honestly feel there are bigger fish to fry, firstly the inactivity which is horrendous.
My question is about lowman/jackels quickhammer? Why we all so quick to let it slide as non scum yet no one wants to vote Rach because they are scared he will do it again. If you(not you personally but you as a whole game) are scared he will do it again call him out on it rather than let it happen again? just my 2c on the matter!

[Gen_Wolf]

I read his case and there was nothing to find because well he hasn't written much at all. I do not know if this is him just trying to avoid a scum slip by writing less or if it is just his scum tell. I also don't see him encouraging game play so I am skeptical of him on the basis of how he constructs his posts. His content in the posts seems fine but I would like a second or multiple opinions please?

I think that is quite a substantial case to be honest... It is more of a case than what is on Rach. The case on Rach is based on that she hasn't posted content. I had listed at least 3 points there in which Aru had erred.

@Jal, let me address your above post

Post #400
I said

@Everyone -
Thoughts on Arugula?

I read his case and there was nothing to find because well he hasn't written much at all. I do not know if this is him just trying to avoid a scum slip by writing less or if it is just his scum tell. I also don't see him encouraging game play so I am skeptical of him on the basis of how he constructs his posts. His content in the posts seems fine but I would like a second or multiple opinions please?

then Post #428
I said

Anyways, my vote will be on aru

Vote:Arugula

His posts are always short, I get the impression he is trying to make himself known and make us think he is involved but he lacks drive and I never see him going out of his way to ask questions (other than RQS) or motivate town to scum hunt. His posts always are short and not very indepth - I think he is scum just trying to fly under the radar!

At no point did I ever say

"well, nothing at the moment."

So please do tell me where you got the information from? As it seems to be fabricated. You also said that

Also, you barely built the case on Arugula.

.
You yourself were on the Aru wagon and if my case is barely built yours does not exist at all. You did not offer any explanation for your vote on Aru you just went and did this

Going to go ahead and

UNVOTE: Pulcher
VOTE: Arugula

Pulcher's bandwagon will have have to wait for D2.

Arugula is officially at L-1 status. No quick hammering please.

Express intent to hammer and let Arugula and everyone else have a final say.

1.) You first fabricate words that I said. When I didn't.
2.) You secondly attack the case I had on Aru when you yourself voted for the man and didnt even offer an explanation
3.) Seem to be trying to wagon me off now as well.

[Gen_Wolf]

@Jal

It's my play style. I very rarely put my vote on immediately. I like to give the person a chance to respond to make sure of my opinion.

Sorry I missed that. I however see that as a read and not a case. You do show suspicion for him but then vote pulcher.

Anyways, seems the game is moving a bit slowly and will be until the end of this weekend. I will however give an early warning for V/LA:

V/LA: Monday 11th - Friday 15th - will be more LA.

Sadly writing exams and 3 of the 4 end up one after the other

[Gen_Wolf]

Unvote: RachMarie

Well, this is unlike you. Unvoting for no reason?

That vote was mainly due to lurking, and was meant as mainly a pressure vote. At the time it had been 3 days since she posted anything. Two posts and 3 hours after my vote-post, she posts with a valid excuse for the inactivity.

At the same time she places a vote on me, which I find completely legit and 100% don't view as OMGUS. It also skewed my read back towards null, hence the unvote.

Why do you find the vote legitimate?

The vote was placed for valid reasons. My day 1 hammer without allowing for claim looked scummy as hell, even I admit that. The day was about to end anyway, I just pushed it along.

At this time I'm going to go back and vote the one player that currently looks scummy to me.
VOTE: Gen_Wolf

OMGUS much...

[Gen_Wolf]

OMGUS much...

That's not OMGUS.

Its not?

[Gen_Wolf]

I see you lurking around the forum Rach.

Intent to hammer. Claim.

I work from home on my computer and I keep myself logged on the MS site all the time. It is not lurking if I am working on other tabs and taking breaks from work to check on my mafia games. I was also gone much of yesterday out of town.

I am not going to claim a PR because I am not one, and most likely you all will hammer me anyways claiming VT

. Regardless of my alignment in any given game my point about looking to figure out both town and scum is still valid and even if someone is town and they tunnel it still is not good for town.

Good luck everyone and it was fun playing with you all.

The bolded part changes my opinion on you... It makes you look like you have thought about what role you are going to claim to be honest! Thats what it looks like to me... It looks like you thought about claiming a PR when you are not one?

[Gen_Wolf]

I am not going to claim a PR because I am not one, and most likely you all will hammer me anyways claiming VT. Regardless of my alignment in any given game my point about looking to figure out both town and scum is still valid and even if someone is town and they tunnel it still is not good for town.

Good luck everyone and it was fun playing with you all.

Day 1, I would as discussed earlier. Day 2, not so much. If I'm wrong and you flip town, we go to LyLo Day 3. I will keep my vote where it is for now, and wait.

P-edit: Gen's post #561 makes him look even more scummy than he did. Twisting the words away from their intended meaning.

I'm comfortable for now keeping my vote on Gen

So how does me interpreting it a different way to you make me scummy? If I had hammered then yes I would look scummy but I don't think she is scummy, even though that last post looked scummy. I do not understand how me interpreting it and then airing my opinion makes me scummy.

[Gen_Wolf]

I am not going to claim a PR because I am not one, and most likely you all will hammer me anyways claiming VT. Regardless of my alignment in any given game my point about looking to figure out both town and scum is still valid and even if someone is town and they tunnel it still is not good for town.

Good luck everyone and it was fun playing with you all.

Day 1, I would as discussed earlier. Day 2, not so much. If I'm wrong and you flip town, we go to LyLo Day 3. I will keep my vote where it is for now, and wait.

P-edit: Gen's post #561 makes him look even more scummy than he did. Twisting the words away from their intended meaning.

I'm comfortable for now keeping my vote on Gen

I am viewing my opinion. Just what I thought was off about her post

So how does me interpreting it a different way to you make me scummy? If I had hammered then yes I would look scummy but I don't think she is scummy, even though that last post looked scummy. I do not understand how me interpreting it and then airing my opinion makes me scummy.

She's close to death right now, Gen. If you don't think that she's scum, then why edge her closer to the abyss of death?

[Gen_Wolf]

Edit:

Dont know why but it deleted what I had typed?

WHat I said was that, the reason I pointed it out Nacho is because that post in particular looked rather scummy. It was almost as if she had to think about what she was going to claim. Usually if you claim, there is no need to think purely because you know your role. The only time you would have to think is if you are scum trying to claim VT or PR. In this case thats the impression I got from the post.

[Gen_Wolf]

So...where is everybody?

Specifically, where is Rach?

Well, she managed to post in 1336 about 7 hours ago so... why can't she post here? Rach? We realize your busy and have a day job but when your sitting at L-1 I think some games take preference over others. E.G. Here.

[Gen_Wolf]

So Gen...About the whole Rach not being scummy thing and how it was going to be another mislynch. Care to explain?

Ya! I got that one seriously wrong hey... Going to have to do a re read! See where I lost it! Can't believe I was protecting a scummer! :/ makes sense though now I look back at it! She was buddying up to me, copying my votes! Should of seen it.

[Gen_Wolf]

Good game all

Sadly, for me, I am the last scum! LS I tried to NK you, you jailkeeper you got me also it seems!

Was fun I enjoyed

[Gen_Wolf]

I was planning on going on a postgame rant about how much I hate the JK role...but once you get down to one scum it becomes quite useful.

Sorry I didn't protect you, Fitz I didn't want to roleblock you, and I was hoping scum didn't catch onto your softclaim. Unfortunately it was Gen that noticed it in the first place. D:

Haha, Ya rach must take credit for Fitz. I noticed in and then completely forgot about it

Sorry I'm late to the party guys.

Good game all around.

I had a feeling we had both scum captured by the end of D2. It was only a question of finally getting the bandwagons together I really wanted Rach to acually do that Gen ISO before hammering because I thought it would be weak (again) and it would seal the deal of the team.

LS: Yeah that was bad luck. I really liked Fitz too. Gen saying he forgot about it D2 was pretty suspect, especially looking at it now

Haha, Funny thing is I genuinely forgot. I tried budding up to Rach and saying "She isn't scum" so if she got lynched I could just WIFOM it saying well why would I as scum partner buddy up so close. But when the NK happened I knew I had no chance haha!

actually you did do something Arugula you made a good mislynch and after that it was much harder to find mislynches especially with Nacho replacing in when he did. If I could have figured out a way to either convince enough for Jackal or if I could have figured out a way even with Nacho replacing in to convince peeps to mislynch one of them instead of me D 2, the game might have gone differently. But overall really good game.

I agree completely! Rach survives D2 and the game is completely different. LS, I am suprised you wanted to roleblock me N1. I thought Rach took more flak than me personally hence why I submitted roles. Rach we tried Next time.

Anyways, NS thanks so much for modding! Another quality job and I am sure I can speak for everyone when we say that we are grateful. As for my fellow players! It was most definately one of my more enjoyable games and I would not hesitate to play with any of you again. Any questions at all please feel free to ask me! Just drop me a PM. Hope to see you all in a game or two around here again