Newbie 250: Scum win in overtime!

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What does my name have to do with explode?

Random vote: PBug.

Just because his name isn't here yet.

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*pokes Red Baron*

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I'd really like to know the reason why thesp accused Be, me and Red Baron as mafia. I don't think it's funny to accuse people for no reason.

*pokes red baron*

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Hi penguin zero. Well, I'm sure all 3 (cops, civilians, mafia) would get defensive regardless of whichever they were. Ogianres, your vote carries over. Just for fun, since supposedly Be, me, and penguin zero are being accused, and pz has 2 votes...

unvote, vote be

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Well, he might just be generating conversation. And to see our (the 3 people he mentioned) reactions.

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Let's see what Thesp has done: try to throw suspicion on other people, accuse 3 people, then accuse 1 of the 3 again. Seems suspicious to me. But I won't change my vote at the moment, for fear of bandwagoning.

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Wow... fastest reply I've ever received! Lol. Suspicious people = mafia.

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Well, I think most first day lynches are random. Anyway...

unvote

Because I see no reason to believe Thesp.

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I think it's pretty much impossible to have evidence on day 1. Usually I think it's like this: people talk/lurk on day 1. Then a lynch occurs. Then N1. Based on whoever died (provided we have no effective doc), then we backtrack to conversation on D1 and guess who's mafia.

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I think some people need to talk more.

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Be: what reason did you think you have?

Ogianres are you a newbie or experienced player?

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@Be: I thought that too, but I was just curious. Do most games usually move at this speed? I feel that this game isn't going anywhere... I'm going to vote Be because I want to see how people and him/her react to it, and I want to get some more discussion going. (As in, discussion not related to the random issue). At this rate we'll be at D1 for a looooong time. I am prepared to unvote if necessary.

vote: PBug

because he's lurking. He answered my question but didn't add anything else to the discussion.

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PBug: that's exactly what I meant by leaving a comment without explaining anything. What reactions from Be? All I see is a suspicious lurker who counter accusers others without saying anything.

*pokes Penguin Zero*

I believe that Ogianres hasn't shown any mafia behaviour till now. Thesp may/may not be mafia. His earlier comments were confusing, and that's scummy. (divide and conquer!) Leptokurt probably isn't mafia, he's too helpful.

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Usually there'll be a time limit if discussion is stalling.

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Mod, can you please give Penguin Zero a prod? If he doesn't reply, we might have to replace him.

For me, the only reason why Penguin Zero is scummy is because he's lurking. But he might be inactive/missing instead.

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@Be: it was stated in the rules that you do have to bold your vote or it won't be counted.

@Leptokurt: I think Be's a newbie. Well... technically speaking so am I because of the number of months thing but this is already my 2nd newbie game. So it might be the reason why he made mistakes.

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Haha. In 1 of my current mini games, I'm replacing viper0933 who replaced rite. I think 1 mod told me that's because this is summer, and people tend to become inactive.

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Thanks! I think people who voted for PZ should unvote to prevent confusion when we get a replacement.

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well, we did give him a chance to ask for a replacement if he needed one. While inactivity/lurking does not equal scummy behaviour, it doesn't help the town at all. (Reference: Newbie game #243, where mafia won due to town inactivity). And, like Leptokurt, I think our game is stagnating.

vote: Penguin Zero

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Reasons for why I think we have a doc:
6 people left after PZ died. If mafia chose to kill last night, 5 people left. Assuming 2 mafia, 3 pro-town, it'll be easy for the 2 mafia to manipulate the lynch. So I think the mafia killed and we have a doc.

Assuming person N1 investigated was innocent, cop claims, doc protects cop:
1) No lynch D2. 6 people.
2) N2, someone other than the cop dies. 5 people. Cop investigates someone.
3) Assuming the person cop investigated N2 was innocent: everyone else is mafia. We win!

Assuming person N2 investigated was mafia:
a) Lynch mafia D2. 5 people.
b) same as 2). 4 people.
c) Cop investigation N2 innocent, we lynch whoever is left. Still win!

So cop needs to claim for doc to protect him.

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Not cop. Why not claim investigations? That way we'll know who's guilty.

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Oh, I didn't think of that. So PBug/Be are cop.

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Oh I forgot:

vote: no lynch

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I'm a newbie, so I don't know. Is it possible to have no cop?

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No problem Thesp. And thanks Leptokurt for pointing out that we might have no cop. CI = confirmed innocents? I'd go with Leptokurt scenario 2 without a doc claim because the % of lynching mafia is higher. But I think that if it looks like we're about to lynch the doc then the doc should claim.

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Since we know we have no cop, and 1 doc, and doc shouldn't claim till he's on the verge of death, let's start the discussion on who we think is mafia.

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Just some reasons of why everybody (except myself, of course ^^) might be scum:

Ogianres + Leptokurt: started a mini argument, with Lepto accusing Og of being defensiveness + voting him. Then Lep (for apparently no reason) decided that Og wasn't scummy. Staged battle = scum tell.

Thesp: tried to divide the town by accusing 3 people. Divide + conquer strategy = scum tell. Then accused Og/Lep. Then said that both of them were innocent. All done without any explanation.

PBug: lurker on D1. Also voted Be 'based on certain reactions' without saying what they were. He has said short one-liners when he actually said anything at all.

Be: The way he rushed into lynching PZ is really suspicious. Reason for doing that (because he wanted the day end) also weak. And he lurked early D2.

I'll probably put up another post later today/tmr on reasons on why I think each are town.

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In a larger game (12 / 20 players), I would've pushed for a PBug lynch since a lurking/unhelpful townie doesn't do town any good. Then again, I'm hesitant to do it now because if we get the wrong man... we're probably at lynch-or-lose tomorrow.

Leptokurt: I agree with the Thesp or PBug scum pair. But I'd just like to poke a hole in it: what if the doc is a newbie and didn't know who was experienced? He could have healed random.

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Agreed. I'd like to hear more from Be too.

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First off,

unvote no lynch

. I've been trying to work out the stats to calculate which one will give town a better chance... but I haven't succeeded. I suck at maths. Anyway, going by logic (the same logic that most people go by when they lynch someone on D1), it's better to lynch someone, and after we know whether he's mafia/town, go backwards to check who sided with him etc. But I'm not sure whether this applies to our situation, because we may be at lynch-or-lose tomorrow if the doc fails to save the right person tonight.

I've played 1 game with PBug too, and I'm in the midst of another. But since I got myself killed really early both games I don't know his playing style. If we decide to follow thesp's logic, I'd lynch PBug before Be, because PBug is experienced and Be isn't, and Be might (crosses fingers) make a wrong decision on the next night.

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If you lynch me, the game will not continue unless the doc protects correctly. I will tell you that. Be very careful about who you lynch, because if the doc protects incorrectly (and they probably will), the game is lost, and if they don't we're in LyLo (Lynch Or Lose, when if you don't lynch mafia you lose).

Erm... this argument applies to everyone else who is a townie. I don't see it as a reason to not lynch you specifically. Can we not use other games as a reason for lynching? Because I don't really want to plow through another 10+ pages.

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PBug, Thesp, and Be are all trying very hard to be lynched. But I still don't like PBug's logic. (#134). Where is everyone?

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PBug posted in vacation thread that he'll have limited access for a while. I agree, Thesp and PBug are both acting suspicious, but I think that Thesp has provided a better defense compared to PBug.

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Erm.. Don't we have no cop in this game? (Since everyone said they're not cop). So why are we discussing cop claims? OG's lurking confession is interesting... While lurking isn't usual pro-town behaviour, because I'd rather hear everyone's views about everything, it takes guts to admit that you're lurking. If OG was mafia, he could have made some 'real-life' excuse to deny that he's lurking.

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I forgot.

vote: Pbug

I've explained my reasoning in an earlier post. Why do we always have no votes for such a looong time? (Now I know what Be felt... this game is dragging badly.)

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4 to lynch. I'm leaving my vote where it is. Reason: If no one ever votes, PBug will never claim. Someone else must vote for PBug to claim if he's doc. But the number of votes should stop at 2 (assuming we have 2 mafia). The 3rd person to vote will be scummy. DO NOT vote the 3rd vote till we hear from PBug after the 2nd.

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Oooo I didn't know that. Thanks Thesp for the info, OG for copying. If scum turbolynches, we'll know who is scum. But I don't want to take that risk anyway since we'll be at lynch or lose tomorrow. Can I now push for a claim from PBug? I'll re-examine Be after PBug claims.

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If I am a doctor, I did not target PBuG last night.

What's this line for?

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*very confused* If I'm the doctor, I wouldn't say whether I had targetted PBug. Then mafia would know I'm doctor and kill me tonight (which is bad for the town). And if I wasn't the doctor, I didn't protect anyone last night.

Thesp. Please clarify.

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I did. Post 173. Okie, got the reasoning of that line, thanks Thesp and lepto. (Stupid me forgot that mafia wouldn't night kill themselves, hence doc wouldn't have protected). Lep, that's a really interesting thing you did... But yes, I agree that we should finish this business today, so my vote stays.

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For me, the 2 at the top of my list are Be and Thesp. OG, what are your ideas? Since Be will probably go for Thesp and vice versa.

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And how did you know that?

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4 alive. 3 to lynch.

1) We lynch scum. N3, mafia kills. 2 people left. (1 mafia, 1 pro-town.) I'm not sure who wins.

@mod: what happens if there's a tie in votes?

2) We lynch scum. N3, no kill because of doc. 3 people left. (1 mafia, 2 town).

3) We lynch pro-town. N3, mafia kills. 2 people left, both scum, mafia wins.

Ogianres, the game hasn't ended yet. I find it interesting that you've suddenly admitted that you're doc. And Be is right. You have been lurking quite a bit.

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Be and me knew that Ogianres was the doc since we tried to kill Thesp Night 1. So even if Og didn't say anything we would've killed him tonight. So if Be died today, I kill Og tonight, we'll have 1 townie and 1 scum tomorrow.

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ogianres was really good... Be and I were so sure Thesp would die.

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Remind me to play in another newbie game with you guys. Should be fun.