Newbie #228 - The Doom of Tinytown (Game Over!)

[MeMe]

Got it.

[MeMe]

vote: ChrisV

[MeMe]

I second viper's request that Flay clear up whether or not the votes

prior

to his announcement that the game has started count. I think it's rather vital information.

[MeMe]

Whoa. Wrong move, buddy.

That puts me at three and that makes you my new whipping boy -- let's get him up to three and see how

he

responds.

unvote: ChrisV
vote: Arvadite

[MeMe]

I believe that since it's not bolded, Arvadite's vote won't count, according to the first rule in Flay's rule post.

Regardless, I believe it was Arvadite's

intent

to put a third vote on me without explanation. That's just plain reckless and deserves votes in return.

[MeMe]

Or really inexperienced.

But are you saying that we should we just sacrifice a random player to see who votes fourth? That's ridiculous. Or are you willing to volunteer for the job? I mean, what if the sacrificed player's the doc or cop? And why would

anyone

put the fourth vote on me now that they've been told they'd be thought of as scum for doing so? And how do you know

I'm

not scum? The fact that you assume my lyncher would be scum is rather interesting as no one other than scum knows the alignments of the other players, at this point.

Alright -- let me say it clearly: although it's hard to find scum on day one in newbie games, it doesn't mean we shouldn't

try

. That means that town should be voting the person acting most suspiciously -- not just getting day one overwith as soon as possible.

[MeMe]

And Arvadite -- I just saw you in this forum after I posted, but you logged off without comment. Would've been a great time to defend your vote on me.

[MeMe]

Arvadite -- you were the third person to vote me. It was

your

action that put me in danger. It's perfectly reasonable for me to single you out as responsible for my position.

But here's how you bold things: ["b"]bold["/b"] -- but remove the quotes. Or you could just use the buttons in "post reply" mode.

[MeMe]

You seem to be really defensive about it, though.

I believe it's the duty of every player to do their best to stay alive. Being unduly defensive is when you freak out about one vote. Being kinda defensive is when you freak out about two. Getting heated up about three in a newbie game, though, isn't

defensive

, it's dutiful play.

[MeMe]

If I was scum I would have shut up long ago because all I have done so far is dig a deeper and deeper grave. Why not question Chrisv or MeMe who are fairly active members of the board but suprisingly quiet in the thread.

This is ChrisV's first game -- so he's not a "fairly active member."

If that is how it works, MeMe would still be under suspicion the same way I am because she shut up after being accused.

I wasn't accused -- I was put one away from a lynch without reason. There's a difference.

Arvadite: who SHOULD we be voting?

[MeMe]

Firstly, I find it odd that after all the song and dance about not speedlynching, she's left Arvadite hanging one away from a lynch for ages.

First, I'm interested in the prejudicial use of "song and dance" here. Wonder why you feel the need to ridicule posts that make valid points about what's good for the town? Second, there's a difference between "speedlynching" and "one away from a lynch for ages" -- which I'm certain you see. Third, I have my vote on Arvadite for a reason. He had his vote on ME for no reason other than "let's get three votes somewhere."

I know she's experienced enough not to only be concerned with self-preservation, if she's a townie.

This looks like a role fish to me. But, I'll go ahead and set you and Arvadite straight, I will always fight for my life

regardless

of role. That said, I fight harder when I'm pro-town. I've been lynched several times when scum, but I've never -- not once in almost four years of online play -- been lynched while holding a pro-town role of any kind, including townie. So your comment above is just plain false. I'm experienced enough TO be concerned with self-preservation. Why? Because I'm the only one I know for a fact is innocent and that's worth fighting for.

Even if I subscribed to the strategy that Iammars mentioned earlier (go down willingly if there's information to be gained from my death), at the point I was in danger, no concrete information could have been gained if I'd died. Newbies could easily wriggle out of their rashness with an "I didn't know it was a bad idea" (case in point: you're choosing me to vote over Arvadite, despite your admittance that you believe Arvadite is only a "few percent" from being scum). "Self preservation" is what you should EXPECT from pro-town players on day one in a newbie game -- a townie who willingly lays down is, effectively saying, "despite the fact that I'm the only one I know to be innocent, I'll make it easy on the scum today." I can barely stomach that thought.

[MeMe]

Comical that #3 in your list of possibilities if Arvadite isn't scum is a scenario in which he

is

scum.

[MeMe]

unvote: Arvadite
vote: Erotomachia

This has been something that's been boiling under the surface for a while -- but that last post puts him over Arvadite in suspicion for me.

1) He says that a fourth-vote on me would be from scum (post #38) and ignores the fact that he should be considering that I could be scum. I pointed this out to him (#39) and he didn't comment on his failure to consider that point when he responded (#47).

2) When he did respond (#47), it was to say that he was only "thinking out loud" in post 39 -- and to accuse me of getting "really defensive" despite the fact that I've explained how very valid that attitude is when being put one away from a lynch without reason and so early. He fails to comment on Arvadite's behavior OR to remove his vote from me, despite claiming that it was random.

3) Only after Arvadite's gotten up to three votes does he post anything about Arvadite's actions saying he'll "watch them both closely" (post #98 -- referencing both Arva & viper -- apparently, only deeming third votes worthy of mention when someone joins Arva in the behavior)

4) He misreads RA's post and looks rather eager to get RandomActs to explicitly say that he's naming viper and me as scum (#111). Despite the fact it's explained rather quickly that he's completely wrong, he decides not to comment on that.

5) In his last post, he completely misrepresents what I said (that I fight hard regardless of role) as me saying that I'm definitely town

because

I'm fighting hard. He calls it "hypocritical" to keep a FIRST vote on someone I thought behaved scummily -- as though that's the same thing as placing a third vote for no reason.

I think he's protecting Arvadite. That might mean they're scum together -- might not. Either way, it reflects poorly on Erotomachia.

[MeMe]

Wow -- one might call that post "really defensive"...and you've only got ONE vote. That's only 33% of the votes I had when you accused

me

of being defensive -- and only 50% of the votes I

currently

have.

Also, since when is placing a first vote "starting a bandwagon"? And, as long as I'm asking you questions, could you please point to where I cautioned everyone against turning on someone (viciously or otherwise) OR starting a bandwagon? I went looking for what your accusation might be talking about and I couldn't find anything. Also, the "every time" thing is interesting. ChrisV is voting me and I haven't "started a bandwagon" or "viciously turn[ed]" on him. Also, it's rather generous of you to characterize your post (and, by implication, Arvadite's) as questioning me...I don't see a single query in yours or anything other than a vote in Arvadite's.

And I'm just giggling at your use of "vicious" as a description of my reasonable (and referenced!) post while you've pointed the words "really defensive" and "hypocritical," at me while accusing me of "hiding something," presenting a "WIFOM" case (as a result of your misinterpretation) and "let[ting] the votes pile up," despite the fact you didn't seem to have a problem with me calling for the votes in the first place (post #36). If anything it would've been hypocritical of me to have a problem with my stated wish coming

true

.

I don't think that any of my recaps of your posts were unfair -- though my interpretations of what they mean alignment-wise are certainly my own. If you believe I've somehow misrepresented what you've said, please help me out. From my point of view, the listing seems pretty accurate, but I'm willing to be set straight if I've gotten you completely wrong.

[MeMe]

I'm guessing you simply blew off that exam? I've seen you full-time in the forum since I posted last, so...

I'll just let your post (now

posts

, I see) sit there for others to read. I'll answer point-by-point if anyone thinks it's necessary, but it looks like desperate spin to me and makes me really happy about my choice to vote you.

[MeMe]

Although, to be specific, I did pose two questions in post 129, which you declined to answer.

You're right about this, and I stand corrected about there not being a single query.

Although I didn't "decline to answer" as I addressed the topic in my post -- I'll gladly respond more clearly lest you think I'm unable/unwilling to do so directly.

You're saying that you must be town because you're very defensive, but you wouldn't be if you were scum? Isn't that just WIFOM?

1) No. I said that I defend myself regardless of role and that I work even harder to stay alive when town. Nowhere did I say that you can trust that this is an example of my most defensive work -- that's all coming from you. 2) No. You've made the statement that I expect you all to think that I "must be a townie simply because of the way [I'm] acting" and that you "don't see why we should accept your assumptions." Since I never said that or implied it, I didn't put a WIFOM argument on the table.

[MeMe]

MeMe: Any thoughts on that post of Arvadite's I quoted?

I can't find where you quoted Arvadite -- could you direct me to it?

Your persuasion skills on Day 1 ought to be the same no matter what.

"Ought to" and "are" are two different things.

[MeMe]

Oh -- I was looking for a quotebox. I found what you were talking about.

Um...I think it's inconclusive. He obviously didn't put two and two together that what he was doing was the same thing as what he earlier condemned. I've seen scum contradict themselves in this way, but I've also seen town simply believe that their actions won't look scummy because they're NOT scum. I know when I'm town, I'm always genuinely surprised that anyone thinks what I've done is scummy (and tend to think they could be scum themselves for even suggesting such a thing). That said, Arvadite has admitted that he knows what he's done was scummy -- but that could be in

retrospect

.

Obviously, I believed that his rush to vote me was scummy REGARDLESS of anything else he'd said. And, unlike you, I give him the edge of a few percentage points toward being mafia rather than townie. But, like I said, Eroto's my current leader of scumminess -- gotta vote for the leader.

[MeMe]

Oh, man. I haven't laughed so hard in a while.

[MeMe]

You can probably guess

my

thoughts about your theory.

[MeMe]

#1 -- that

was

a reaction.

#2 -- what's there to defend against? You've come up with a theory because I voted you for actions you acknowledge as scummy -- and I'm paired with viper because you think he "had to wait for someone else to vote."

Here's my defense: you're wrong.

Now defend against this: I think it's more likely that you and Erotomachia are scum together than any other pair in this game. I think that Erotomachia looks to have been defending you and you are completely ignoring HIS scummy posts. Why don't you let me know what you think about the case I've put together against

him

? Why not tell me why it doesn't make sense for you two to be paired together? And, since it wouldn't be fair of you not to comment on my theory after expecting more from me, I'll expect nothing less than a thorough reply from you.

[MeMe]

Everyone, with the exception of RandomActs (who hasn't been gone that long), has posted in the last 24 hours.

As for my theory: have you not read the last couple of pages?

[MeMe]

(Sorry for the triple)

Clarification: first post addresses Arvadite, second addresses viper.

[MeMe]

I've found myself to be overwhelmed by real-life demands and am attempting to get replacements into all of my mafia games -- Kelly Chen has agreed to take over for me here.

It was fun!