Newbie #228 - The Doom of Tinytown (Game Over!)

[Erotomachia]

/confirm.

My first Mafia game! I'm so excited!

[Erotomachia]

So we just throw out votes to random people? I'm tempted to RandomVote for RandomActs!

Random Vote: MeMe

[Erotomachia]

But if someone put a fourth vote on you, we'd know they're scum, right?

[Erotomachia]

Or really inexperienced.

But are you saying that we should we just sacrifice a random player to see who votes fourth? That's ridiculous. Or are you willing to volunteer for the job? I mean, what if the sacrificed player's the doc or cop? And why would

anyone

put the fourth vote on me now that they've been told they'd be thought of as scum for doing so? And how do you know

I'm

not scum? The fact that you assume my lyncher would be scum is rather interesting as no one other than scum knows the alignments of the other players, at this point.

No, I certainly don't believe in sacrificing random people. I was just thinking out loud; after all, killing somebody off so quickly doesn't really benefit us. I have no idea whether you're scum or not; I just randomly voted for you. You seem to be really defensive about it, though.

And you still didn't bold your vote, Arvadite.

[Erotomachia]

I think everyone's been posting a reasonable amount. But I'm not how quickly Mafia games usually go.

[Erotomachia]

Sorry, I forgot a word. I meant to say that "I'm not

sure

how quickly Mafia games go."

[Erotomachia]

Both Arvadite and viper0933 cast "3rd votes" on people, so I for one will watch them both closely.

I still don't understand Arvadite's reasoning for his vote on MeMe. There were two random votes on MeMe, and then Arvadite suddenly pounced on her. After that, it just seems like everyone jumped on Arvadite in retaliation.

Anyway, I'd personally like to hear more from ChrisV.

[Erotomachia]

Does this

(Well, except for me. You can always trust me in whatever I say.)

apply to this?

2. Or perhaps both scum have already voted on the wagon

(and no, folks, I’m not one of them.)

Anyway, you're saying that #2 is the most probable, right?...are you suggesting that MeMe and viper0933 are scum?

[Erotomachia]

I don't see where this is going.

[Erotomachia]

I believed I expressed my suspicions about Arvadite and viper0933 on post 98 of page 4.

I'd also like input from others on how Arvadite's "yeah that would be kind of an obvious thing" post fits into their theory that he then attempted a speedlynch of MeMe.

Hmm, good observation. He first writes that it would obviously be scummy to jump on a bandwagon early in the game. A couple posts later, he does just that as he casts a third vote on MeMe. I've been wary of Arvadite since the very beginning of the game; unfortunately he's been quiet since page 4 and hasn't attempted to justify his actions. I don't think it's fair to move so fast, however--you're pushing for a lynch too hard, ChrisV. Can't we at least hear what Arvadite himself has to say to all this?

By reading the first few pages, you can probably tell that I haven't placed much trust in MeMe. Allow me to now express my opinions more concretely.

But, I'll go ahead and set you and Arvadite straight, I will always fight for my life regardless of role. That said, I fight harder when I'm pro-town. I've been lynched several times when scum, but I've never -- not once in almost four years of online play -- been lynched while holding a pro-town role of any kind, including townie. So your comment above is just plain false. I'm experienced enough TO be concerned with self-preservation. Why? Because I'm the only one I know for a fact is innocent and that's worth fighting for.

You're saying that you must be town because you're very defensive, but you wouldn't be if you were scum? Isn't that just WIFOM? (i.e. you must be a townie simply because of the way you're acting). I don't see why we should accept your assumptions.

MeMe likes to talk about her "duty" and all that...I personally feel like she's hiding something. It also seemed hypocritical to criticize Arvadite for his 3rd vote and then turn around and let the votes pile up on him.

I'm content with my vote for now.

[Erotomachia]

I'll read your post and comment on it later...I've got to take an exam. I'm not surprised by having you suddenly turn on me, however. You did the same thing to Arvadite. Every time someone questions you, you viciously turn on them and start a bandwagon on them. And yet at the very beginning you cautioned us against just that!

[Erotomachia]

This has been something that's been boiling under the surface for a while -- but that last post puts him over Arvadite in suspicion for me.

Boiling under the surface for a while? I think you mean it just started with your last post. Nowhere had you even so much as FOS’ed me, and now you suddenly vote against me.

At the beginning of the game you wrote that Arvadite’s behaviour of getting someone up to 3 votes is “just plain reckless.” Later on, you have absolutely no problem leaving him at 3 votes for quite a while. Only now, under pressure by ChrisV and me, do you switch your vote. In other words, you were so worried about the 3 votes against you but had no trouble leaving 3 votes against Arvadite. I call that hypocrisy.

After that, although ChrisV states: “I was just drawing a distinction between your strong self preservation and your willingness to hang someone at three votes for ages, on the evidence that he cast a third vote for you” in post 124, you ignore him.

He says that a fourth-vote on me would be from scum (post #38 ) and ignores the fact that he should be considering that I could be scum. I pointed this out to him (#39) and he didn't comment on his failure to consider that point when he responded (#47).

Looking back upon my post, I do not believe I stated that. Isn’t it obvious that a quick, unexplained fourth vote would be from a scum player? As townies, we wish to discuss the game...we are, as RandomActs stated, in no rush. Therefore, only a very anti-town or inexperienced town player would quicklynch someone in such a manner. I expect most human beings to behave in a rational manner, which is why I would think only the mafia would want to quicklynch. You suggest a hypothetical situation in which you are scum—if you’re truly a townie, why would you even consider this?

2) When he did respond (#47), it was to say that he was only "thinking out loud" in post 39 -- and to accuse me of getting "really defensive" despite the fact that I've explained how very valid that attitude is when being put one away from a lynch without reason and so early. He fails to comment on Arvadite's behavior OR to remove his vote from me, despite claiming that it was random.

Of course I did not remove by vote. You seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that I was already growing suspicious of you because of your over-defensiveness. Furthermore, I explicitly stated in post 47 that “killing somebody off so quickly doesn't really benefit us” which reveals my worry about Arvadite’s 3rd vote on you.

3) Only after Arvadite's gotten up to three votes does he post anything about Arvadite's actions saying he'll "watch them both closely" (post #98 -- referencing both Arva & viper -- apparently, only deeming third votes worthy of mention when someone joins Arva in the behavior)

See my response to #2. I also questioned Arvadite as to why he had placed a 3rd vote on you: “I still don't understand Arvadite's reasoning for his vote on MeMe,” although he ignored me.

4) He misreads RA's post and looks rather eager to get RandomActs to explicitly say that he's naming viper and me as scum (#111). Despite the fact it's explained rather quickly that he's completely wrong, he decides not to comment on that.

This is a blatant distortion of the truth, and I am frightened by it. “Looks rather eagar”? That’s your personal, prejudiced interpretation. I think we townies should stick to facts...you’re trying to cover things up by immediately forcing a biased perspective.

This is how I interpreted RandomActs’ post: He listed 3 possibilities, and wrote that the probabilities were 3, 1, 2. I thought that he was assigning values to the 3 possibilities, and that therefore number 2 was ranked 1st, number 3 was ranked 2nd, and number 1 was ranked 3rd. I made a mistake, but later understood what RandomActs was actually saying.

5) In his last post, he completely misrepresents what I said (that I fight hard regardless of role) as me saying that I'm definitely town because I'm fighting hard. He calls it "hypocritical" to keep a FIRST vote on someone I thought behaved scummily -- as though that's the same thing as placing a third vote for no reason.

Perhaps you could attempt to explain your post then. You clearly said that you fight harder as a townie, therefore suggesting that you’re not scum in this game simply because you’re “fighting hard.” And yes, I explained your hypocrisy earlier–ChrisV even pointed it out (post 105), although you’ve mostly ignored him.

[Erotomachia]

Wow -- one might call that post "really defensive"...and you've only got ONE vote. That's only 33% of the votes I had when you accused me of being defensive -- and only 50% of the votes I currently have.

I’m demonstrating to the other players your voting patterns. After Arvadite’s vote, you voted against him, which quickly turned into a 3 person bandwagon, putting him only one vote away from a lynch. You wrote at the very beginning about self-preservation and the fact that Arvadite was reckless; however, you’ve got no trouble leaving his life hanging by a thread. These sorts of contradictions are worrisome and scummy.

Also, since when is placing a first vote "starting a bandwagon"? And, as long as I'm asking you questions, could you please point to where I cautioned everyone against turning on someone (viciously or otherwise) OR starting a bandwagon? I went looking for what your accusation might be talking about and I couldn't find anything. Also, the "every time" thing is interesting. ChrisV is voting me and I haven't "started a bandwagon" or "viciously turn[ed]" on him. Also, it's rather generous of you to characterize your post (and, by implication, Arvadite's) as questioning me...I don't see a single query in yours or anything other than a vote in Arvadite's.

In posts 37 and 39 you write that a 3rd vote like Arvadite’s is reckless. You also warn us about “getting day one overwith as soon as possible.” So 3 quick votes against you=big problem, yet 3 quick ones against Arvadite=no problem. The town came very close to lynching someone quickly, and yet (despite your earlier cautioning) you do not dispute this (unless it’s your own skin you’re trying to save). You do not remove your vote from Arvadite, even when he is 1 vote away from being lynched, although you lectured us on, as ChrisV says, "all the song and dance about not speedlynching."

Literal interpretations are tiresome, but all right...

v. questioned, questioning, questions
v. tr.
1. To put a question to. See Synonyms at ask.
2. To examine (a witness, for example) by questioning; interrogate.
3. To express doubt about; dispute.
4. To analyze; examine.
(www.dictionary.com)

Looks like questioning can mean more than just “asking a question.” Although, to be specific, I did pose two questions in post 129, which you declined to answer.

I don't think that any of my recaps of your posts were unfair -- though my interpretations of what they mean alignment-wise are certainly my own. If you believe I've somehow misrepresented what you've said, please help me out. From my point of view, the listing seems pretty accurate, but I'm willing to be set straight if I've gotten you completely wrong.

I think I’ve already explained how you have enjoy inserting words like “eager” to distort the truth. Willing to be set straight? Scum have a tendency to lie.

[Erotomachia]

I'm in the midst of finals, so I'm not quite as active as before.

But when he claims that MeMe was using her defensiveness as proof of township, well, that really is a mischaracterization of what she said.

All I can say is that was the first impression I got after reading the following post:

This looks like a role fish to me. But, I'll go ahead and set you and Arvadite straight, I will always fight for my life regardless of role.

That said, I fight harder when I'm pro-town.

I've been lynched several times when scum, but I've never -- not once in almost four years of online play -- been lynched while holding a pro-town role of any kind, including townie. So your comment above is just plain false. I'm experienced enough TO be concerned with self-preservation. Why? Because I'm the only one I know for a fact is innocent and that's worth fighting for.

Perhaps that wasn't what she was saying, but that's what the paragraph seemed to suggest (to me). Anyway, that's over and done with, since Kelly Chen shouldn't be expected to defend MeMe's words.

Frankly, I'm quite surprised that MeMe thinks I'm scum with Arvadite. Just because I didn't lynch him isn't evidence that I'm being soft on him--it's simply evidence that I don't favour a rapid killing off of other players.

Oh, and welcome to the game, Kelly Chen.

But, umm, you're voting for me because MeMe is "relatively accurate"? Given that you are the same person, I personally feel that doesn't stand for much (you'd have the same motivations).

[Erotomachia]

Just one more essay and then I'll be finished with finals. I should be able to post more often after this week is over.

For now, I'll keep it short.

I watch with surprise as viper0933 and ChrisV call for my head as soon as possible. I guess I might have misinterpreted MeMe, which gives a bad impression...but I am honestly astonished at how quickly everyone has forgotten Arvadite's 3rd vote on MeMe that came with

no explanation at all

. What was his excuse later? That he was rushed.

So that's already my default thinking, and it's given further credence by the post Arvadite made before he voted, indicating that he understood that speedlynching was scummy and would be "kind of an obvious thing".

To me, that signals a contradiction. Arvadite makes that statement on page 2, and then a few posts later casts the 3rd vote on MeMe. Saying one thing and doing another seems pretty scummy to me.

And as my vote seems pretty useless at the moment...

Unvote

[Erotomachia]

Please show me where I "defended" Arvadite.

[Erotomachia]

We should lynch ChrisV to put him out of his misery.

[Erotomachia]

I'm teasing, of course.

Anyway, Iammars just hopped on the bandwagon against me. Nothing new, as ChrisV pointed out...I found a lot of the analysis outdated (in regard to posts that were made and discussed a long time ago).

3 votes to lynch, is it? I think I've already got 2 against me...ChrisV because he wants the day to end, and Kelly Chen because I misinterpreted MeMe...

[Erotomachia]

I'm here as well...I'm just a little tired of the game.

I still need to read Arvadite's and viper0933 recent lengthy exchange.

I was tempted to vote for Iammars because of how he has managed to maintain a low profile, but he hasn't done anything suspicious. I have difficulty calling his actions "scummy."

I've also thought of voting for Arvadite, but that would be a third vote against him and I still need to read his most recent posts before I make a decision. I've just realized I should probably read before posting, haha. Ah well.

[Erotomachia]

I obviously don't use the computer as much as others. From what I remember, lurking is reading without posting. I do not engage in such behaviour. ChrisV does the same as me--he posts even without having read everything. And frankly, I don't think many have bothered reading the ridiculous tirade between viper and Arvadite.

It is pro-village to state clearly and succinctly who you suspect. Normally you shouldn't even say why.

This is my first Mafia game, so I'll take your word for it. I thought that support for one's argument was a good thing, however.

It doesn't really matter what else I say as I am sure to be lynched. That's what you all want...good luck!

[Erotomachia]

Have fun everyone. It's rather a relief to leave this game.

[Erotomachia]

Woohoo! Good game everyone. I played terribly, but thanks to my amazing partner, we managed to snatch the victory.