Newbie 208 - Game Over

[Yamahako]

I'm in my first game! Am I supposed to pick someone to random vote now? My first vote shall be

vote bdwhox

. Do we start looking for suspicious people now? Or should I just start trying to find discrepancies in other people's posts? 'Cause I don't want to mess anything up in my first game!

[Yamahako]

Hmm, so everyone has posted, and 6 people have votes. Joker has two votes - and hasn't put out a silly/random vote yet. No one looks very scummy though. The worst thing is Glork putting the second vote on Joker, but Joker hadn't posted yet still:

FOS Glork

! Ameliasay flip-flopped her vote but that seemed mostly in silly retaliation

FOS Ameliasay

. We need more people to say stuff! I will

unvote

and

vote Arafax

'cause no one has voted for him yet!

[Yamahako]

The worst thing is Glork putting the second vote on Joker, but Joker hadn't posted yet still: FOS Glork! ... I will unvote and vote Arafax 'cause no one has voted for him yet!

No one has voted for Glork yet either. So, why vote for Arafax after having just chastised Glork?

And what's so terrible about a 2nd vote?

True!

unvote, vote Glork

. And now that everyone has been voted for

unvote

. I don't really know how to tell if someone is bad, although I read the Wiki. What kinds of things should we be looking for?

[Yamahako]

I may be the only one to do this but when i read a post I imagin the person saying it in real life in person. and Yamahako when you post i imagin a hyperactive little kid with a really high piched voice so I'm content to leave my vote where it is and also Yamahako seems almost parinoied about finding the mafia on day 1 maby he is scum trying to throw suspicion of himself

Sorry, I'm 25 not a little kid, though I am a bit overly eager I suppose. I first learned about Mafia a little over 1 month ago from MTGsalvation. And I've been chomping at the bit since then to get into a game.

I'm just trying to get some discussion going, I'm not really paranoid. I appologize if I came off like a child.

[Yamahako]

So does that mean since I'm not scum I can't screw up (unless I role claim too soon)? That makes me feel better! I think bdwhoX was just trying to help. And you seem a bit helpful as well... maybe too helpful....

However, since we need conversation in order to find discrepancies in our compatriots, Arafax and AmeliaSlay have the fewest number of posts at 2 a piece. Ameliaslay only posted once to do a random vote, then another to defend herself - Arafax did make one post concerning something unrelated to himself. This leads me to believe that AmeliaSlay is a bit more scummy - seeming more "selfish". Or at least, that's as much as I could get from reading this thread on their limited post. And since I decided I was going to vote for the person with the least number of posts - I'm going to

Vote AmeliaSlay

. I realize this may be Craplogic (tm) but there isn't much else to work with is there?

[Yamahako]

decided I was going to vote for the person with the least number of posts

Hmm, well I'm tied for that honor w/ Arafax, but hey whatever floats your boat.

I don't mean to be mean - but I said you were tied. I gave my reasons for picking you over Arafax... and with your post #3 those reasons seem to be reinforced.

Am I supposed to have a partner? I thought they didn't have masons in the newbie games...

[Yamahako]

Hmmm in re-reading posts this one caught my eye in a way that I didn't see before -

also Yamahako seems almost parinoied about finding the mafia on day 1 maby he is scum trying to throw suspicion of himself

It's probably nothing, however - shouldn't

everyone

be a bit paranoid about finding the mafia? I still think AmeliaSlay is being a bit scummy, however I'm putting a really strong

FOS on bdwhox

. It's a minor thing I know, but it's like a subconsious tell isn't it?

Right now my list from Most to Least Scummy (with what limited information I can muster)

1.) AmeliaSlay - still seems scummy, though she did post a non-acusatory, non-defensive post that was helpful (#47)
2.) bdwhox - very friendly and helpful, the above comment makes me question a bit
3.) Joker - additionally being helpful - though not too friendly, he seems distrustful - which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but he is posting a lot and most people have less to go on.
4.) BigAl - he isn't really posting on the game really, that seems like someone who is trying to appear under the rader which is pseudo-scummy
5.) Arafax - the only thing I noticed (#33) is that he said I didn't unvote before my last vote - however I did

True!

unvote, vote Glork

. And now that everyone has been voted for

unvote

.

so that is that as they say - however I can't tell if he said that, or if the mod said that.
6.) Glorx - he doesn't seem to be non-scummy, but nothing really scummy about anything he's done. He made an excellent point about Joker, but he did vote for me... grrrr.

[Yamahako]

Under the influence of Stark's mind control machine:

Yup, Stark is an awesome vote counter. He counts votes with awesomeness.

[Yamahako]

Just don't want anyone to think I'm lurking. There isn't a lot more that I've gathered from my last post. My 3 biggest picks as potential scum are still AmeliaSlay, bdwhox, and Joker.

I think it's possible that bdwhox and joker are acting against each other as a way to separate themselves in our minds so if we get one of them, we'll assume the other is innocent.

I'm really interested in getting some kind of analysis from AmeliaSlay. Her(? - appologies if I'm getting that wrong) last post said it was coming, but I really want to see it. I'm still suspicious that she hasn't posted anything of substance yet.

If she responds I still don't know where I would vote. next on my list is probably bigAl, but I don't have anything other than intuition about that one. And I'm not sure I could make a strong decision one way or the other between bdwhox or Joker.

[Yamahako]

And just because there's been many unvotes recently -

Vote Count

, if it wouldn't be too much trouble. Were on another page too!

[Yamahako]

Arafax - I just noticed something - we started on exactly the same day. That's pretty freaky...

[Yamahako]

Ameliaslay: 2 (bigAl, Yamahako)

Can I ask for input on why you both think that Amelia is scummy?...For the record, I am not seeking to defend her, I am just curious as to their input....Maybe I have missed something...Thanks!

Her post, to date, have been both few and almost solely defensive in nature. I don't necessarily feel that's enough to peg her fully scum, but she isn't adding very much to the discussion at hand, and she isn't doing much other than refuting when people target her for response. Those are my basic reasons. Not necessarily that she seems scummy, just more scummy than anyone else I can target in this game.

If she posted a decent analysis that we could scrutinize, it might help her seem more innocent in my book, but as of yet she hasn't done anything of the sort. That make her appear to be hiding under the radar, just adding something when she is (even only moderatly) threatened. My vote is staying on her until we get more out of her - however I wouldn't necessarily think she should be lynched at this point.

Joker and Bdwhox I think are on that crux where they are either scummy, or playing an agressively pro-town.

[Yamahako]

Hmm, well I don't see how I've come off as defensive... most of that was put in a joking manner, and yet you keep reiterating that my behavior is defensive

Just don't want anyone to think I'm lurking.

I did pick up on this minor thing, why would a pro-town person worry about being perceived as scummy? You come off a bit paranoid and I can't decide if that's a noobish trait, or if it belongs to a self-concious scum, if anything. But it seems to be a trait you share with bdwhox.

Well... lets look at your posts and see why I feel you're being defensive. (I'm actually giddy, my first PBPA!!)

Right back at ya SCUM vote: bigAl

unvote, vote:Joker

This is an OMGUS (as you pointed out earlier) and a random vote (I'm assuming) - though not labled as such. IMO an OMGUS is a defensive measure.

Agh, you followed me Glork...

Yamahako wrote:
Ameliasay flip-flopped her vote but that seemed mostly in silly retaliation FOS Ameliasay

It's called an OMGUS
bigAl wrote:
Still happy with my vote until I hear an explanation why Ameliaslay vote then unvoted me

Because I wanted to.

Two defensive comments.

Yamahako wrote: decided I was going to vote for the person with the least number of posts
Hmm, well I'm tied for that honor w/ Arafax, but hey whatever floats your boat.

<had to edit this quote due to messed up tags in the original post>

Another defensive Comment

bdwhox wrote:
well someone could agree with someone else in a preveous game to be partners


Nope, you can't talk to anyone outside the thread about this game---and in any other sense of the word, you wouldn't and couldn't know your "partner's" alignment, herefore there'd be no reason to trust him/her. (unless you've played enough games with him/her to be able to reasonably predict whether or not he/she is scum, even then you'd just be making a good guess.)

This is not defensive. I will give you that one.

yamahako wrote:
AmeliaSlay - still seems scummy, though she did post a non-accusatory, non-defensive post that was helpful


Moi, whatever have I done?

In a round about way this is defensive, "What have I done" is most often interpreted as "I haven't done anything wrong!"

The silent observer speaks...

Firm opinion, huh?

My initial response is that I'm a little suspicious of Yamhako, but nothing I can pin down concretely.
I believe that I will unvote and place my vote a little later when I come back from my sojurn w/ further analysis.

This to me is the most telling post. First you start off calling yourself a 'silent observer' which is a way of trying to slip in a reason for your lack of posting on anything real. Then you (in response to a request from another person) give an opinion (defensive response). You choose to finger me out, the person most consistently going against you - which is not only defensive, but the "safest" play. And even at that you say doesn't have any concrete merit. So when called on to make a statement regarding the game state, you reply to satisfy the call, but with nothing of substance. No one could specifically fault you for choosing me as a target since I've pretty much chosen you as my most scummy nominee, and you make sure not to say anything specific so you couldn't be called on it. Even I missed all of that at first. Bravo!

Hmm, well I don't see how I've come off as defensive... most of that was put in a joking manner, and yet you keep reiterating that my behavior is defensive

yamahako wrote:
Just don't want anyone to think I'm lurking.

I did pick up on this minor thing, why would a pro-town person worry about being perceived as scummy? You come off a bit paranoid and I can't decide if that's a noobish trait, or if it belongs to a self-conscious scum, if anything. But it seems to be a trait you share with bdwhox.

I keep saying you're posting defensively because only one of your posts was not made in a defensive manner. Even this one is defensive. And whether you were joking with some of your earlier posts, or "joking" as to be able to alleviate some suspicion if it arose, I still think there's enough past the potential joking around stage to warrant investigation.

I did learn a bit from your second point in this post however - I definitely need to be a bit more careful with word choice. I do tend to write what I am thinking while I am typing. For the record, I don't want anyone to excuse any of my behavior because of my inexperience in this game... If I'm being a bad townie - I want to be lynched so I can learn from my mistakes. I would really hate it if I loose a game for the town down the road because my town-mates thought I was scummy.

[Yamahako]

Woah... that was a bit fast there guys... she's got 4 votes... doesn't that mean she's lynched?

BigAl, Me, Arafax and bdwhox....

[Yamahako]

Is it too late to

unvote

?? I think she's scummy - but I haven't had time to read her reply well enough yet...

[Yamahako]

PS - Good job Doc

Acording to the wiki, the first person to compliment the Doc is mafia..

Man bdwhox, that was really scummy... I've got a strong

FOS

on you. I was just giving my reasons guys why I thought she was scummy, not calling for a lynch or anything, I mean Big Al's vote was still a random vote IIRC

Since there wasn't a night kill, I don't think we are in lynch or lose yet - it should still take 4 votes to lynch - but seriously think hard before you put a second vote on anyone in case the scum speed lynch.

[Yamahako]

For reference - I'm a guy how do I put that symbol under my name?

And yamahoko, did you miss the part in the post above where BigAl claimed cop and also said he checked bdwhox and came up clean? Why the FOS on bdwhox?

I missed the part where BigAl claimed cop you're exactly right. I will

Un-FOS bdwhox

. Actually I'm pretty sure I was writing my post while he was writing his as they are only 12 mintues apart (and sometimes I get distracted while I'm at home in the middle of a post - for reference it's 3:56 my time right now - we'll see how long it takes me to finish this).

There's no counter claim, however there isn't a gaurentee there's a cop in this game either. While it would be a gambit, it is possbile that BigAl is *not* a cop and he is clearing bdwhox (his scum partner) under the circumstances that they chose not to do a night kill as their strategy. I'm not saying this is the case, all I'm saying is we need to take this into consideration. The only way we could be sure is to lynch one of them - however IM NOT ADVOCATING THAT. With 6 people left, it would be a risky play for mafia, and as townies - its only giving us 33% chance at winning (you're right that we are in Lynch or Lose Joker, I didn't really remember that we lose someone tonight as well - I was just thinking that if anyone dropped a vote then its over if the mafia bandwagon as being the lynch or lose situation)

If BigAl *is* a cop, *and* the mafia tried to kill someone last night, then we have a doc. But these are things we can not be absolutely sure of. If we do have a doc, then it would have to be either Joker, Arafax, Glork, or myself (this again is basing nothing except the verity of BigAl's claim). This assumption gives us a 50% shot of getting mafia - which is better than 33%.

While often true for newbs, you can't take any single piece of evidence by itself. Just because he said that, there is no certainty that he is mafia (ie. compare "the first person to compliment the Doc is mafia" to "the first person to compliment the Doc is often mafia").

Yeah, sorry I was picturing the list with the +10 and everything.

but I would like the doc to come out so we know...

I'm pretty sure under no circumstances should the doc come out and say they are the doc unless its to keep from being lynched. Even *if* the doc were to claim, *and* BigAl is the cop, *and* bdwhox is a cleared townie then we have a 66% chance of hitting *a* scum, then scum grabs the Doc (probably), then we have a 50% chance at getting scum again or we loose. So that's only a 33% chance of winning too. If the scum doesn't know the doc, then we have a 50% chance of getting scum - but the scum then only have a 50% chance of hitting the doc, meaning we have a 50% chance of still being alive day 4. If I'm getting these wrong, please let me know but I'm pretty sure that I'm right. So the best plan is to NOT claim, and possibly to assume BigAl and bdwhox are clear, and then work from there. However, like I said, that's not even a sure thing.

I tried to unvote because I didn't think we should have lynched AmeliaSlay yet. I thought she was acting the most scummy, however what I wanted from her was some analysis and responses to the game, and I wasn't getting those - which is why I was going after her so strongly. To be honest, if she responded I was going to go after BigAl or Arafax next. BigAl has definatly added a bunch to the game at this point in terms of strategy and suggestions. Arafax has been a bit weaker - I don't have time to go through everything again, but for the moment I'm going to

FOS arafax

simply to remind myself to look into him more.

[Yamahako]

O.K. I may be doing this to early but I can tell you right now that 3 of the 6 people remaining are inocent. The list I am about to show you is almost perfectly acurate

bdwhox: I am the doc so you can count me out
Joker: He is the one who was targeted last night I saved him
Yamahako: Don't know
Arafax: don't know
AmeliaSlay: dead
Glork: don't know
BigAl: is the cop asuming that he is not lying

so at this point ether Yamahako, Arafax, or Glork are scum this reduces the number of suspects greatly. I may be coming into the open way to soon but this will let us look at far fewer people

Dude you are SO busted. I am the doc you scum!! I protected Glork last night since he seemed the most likely to be townie. I hid my claim in my first post to prove it:

I

'm in my first game!

A

m I supposed to pick someone to random vote now?

M

y first vote shall be vote bdwhox.

D

o we start looking for suspicious people now?

O

r should I just start trying to find discrepancies in other people's posts? '

C

ause I don't want to mess anything up in my first game!

That's why I sounded a little wierd, it was hard to get all the sentances to start with the right letters.

VOTE BDWHOX

- oh and Thanks BigAl I'll fix my gender!

[Yamahako]

Also that means BigAl must be scum - for the record.

[Yamahako]

Or it could go like this:

bdwhox and BigAl tried to kill Glork last night. I chose to protect Glork because he was the only one I was pretty sure was not mafia. Glork was also suspicious of bdwhox, but not as obviously so as Joker - if joker died last night, it would have made everyone even more suspicious at bdwhox; this is why it doesn't make sense (number 1) that joker would have been targeted (or number 2) that bdwhox would choose to protect joker. I protected Glork because he was at the bottom of my list. Simple as that. That may be the same reason he was targeted (or possibly not targeted) It didn't go through though.

BigAl and Glork knew there was a doc, but didn't know who it was, so they decided to risk a claim for cop, since there was a 50% chance that it could win them the game (50% chance there was no cop) since they'd both be cleared. Since most people pretty much seemed to go for it, Bdwhox claimed doc picking Joker - who was his biggest enemy in day 1 to additionally clear, knowing full well there was a doc. Assuming that the real doc would counter claim (there's a 75% chance it wasn't Joker) then at *worst* they'd only have to convince one of the rest of us that the counter claimed doc was lying and they'd have their lynch (and the game).

nice fall back plan. if you get outed then you can just clam you where doc all along.

it would be a terrible fall back plan! It was pretty obvious what I did, and I read on MTG Salvation that you should do one. If I *wasn't* doc and someone *did* see it, then I would have been lynched out of hand.

The only truth any of you townies can be sure of is this: bdwhox speed lynched AmeliaSlay. After that you're going to have to go on my word, that firstly, it would be dumb of me to claim doc if I was mafia since it would be almost an auto-lynch (and I understand thats the situation I am in now, but when you

know

who the scum are you need to tell the town), and secondly, BigAl's risky un-countered cop claim was the perfect way to set this up when they lost their kill last night.

I would say vote for me and lynch me if we had 1 more townie since it would prove my point, except that in this situation we'd loose :-/

[Yamahako]

Three other points to add:

If I was mafia, why wouldn't I have sat back and waited to see where the arguments are going. Waiting to see if Glork or Arafax was implicated as the lynch today, and just gone along with the plan as long as it didn't get me or my partner? That would have been the best chance at winning,

if I was mafia

.

If I was town

then bdwhox's claim would tell me who both of the other mafia are, and since we have to pick a mafia today or loose, I would have to come out and counter or else

i would lose

.

Once BigAl was un-counter claimed as Cop, this does make sense as a mafia plan. Oust the doc, this lets them lynch the real doc, thus allowing no interference with their night kill (and thusly winning the game) tonight.

I will

Unvote

until we reach a consensus as town, because I am a townie. But I *know* who the scum are.

[Yamahako]

Also! I just thought of this:

What good townie would have claimed doc??

Think about it, bdwhox couldn't really be sure that BigAl isn't scum. BigAl could be lying (number 1). If bdwhox was really the doc, he should have kept quiet about it. Used the information he knew in order to keep joker clear (assuming an attempt on Joker's life) but

not told anyone he was the doc

. If the town picked wrong, and pegged a townie, he could still attempt to save the game through saving someone tonight. If bdwhox was a townie - he pretty much would have lost the game for town if the town didn't nab a mafia today - because the mafia would kill off the doc tonight.

The best play for town was to not oust the doc. So why would bdwhox claim doc if he was town? It wouldn't benefit the town - making the margin of sucess far smaller.

So what's more likely?

bdwhox speed lynched AmeliaSlay. His partner is BigAl. They targeted Glork. Glork didn't die so they knew there was a doc. BigAl made a risky venture to claim cop that worked for him. After that, they knew that gaurenteed victory only came if they knew who the doc was. bdwhox claimed doc to oust the doc - which was incredibly safe given he was "cleared" by the uncounterclaimed BigAl. He said he "protected" Joker, who was his biggest opposition day 1 in order to try and win over the hardest opponent of that plan.

[Yamahako]

or maby you are just trying to get out of the big dich I threw you in, I my self have used the "if i where scum i wouldn't do this" exuse before. By the way would you explain why the scum would attack glork. You never provided a reason for picking him other than that he was at the bottom of your scum list, the statistics are not on your side for a luck guess

I explained this before - though you already know why.

Joker came out pretty hard against you day 1. It would have been very suspicious of you to get rid of him. However, the other person voting for you bdwhox was Glork:

I reread the thread, and bdwhoX has been giving me the scummiest vibes so far. Vote: bdwhoX

I'm a bit skeptical of Yamahako's play, too, and BigAl has gotten away with contrbuting surprisingly little actual content (and yes, I'm aware that he's been gone yesterday/today). He's made a few reflective, explanatory (regarding rules and procedure), and commentary-type posts, but I haven't seen him take a firm stance on anyone yet. That's a little alarming, so I'll definitely be keeping an eye on him.

That's pretty much a good reason for both of you to try and off Glork, wouldn't you say?

And, yeah, I was lucky that I picked Glork to protect tonight - and he also happened to be your choice as a kill.

[Yamahako]

I just figured it out -

we are in lynch or lose. If we

don't

lynch someone today, then we will know who the mafia are by who they choose to kill tonight. Tomorrow, assuming a night kill, we will still be lynch or lose - however we will have considerably more information. This gives us another day at least.

As joker said - it doesn't make sense for all 3 of us to be lying, that means Joker is a confirmed townie. If I was lying, that would mean my partner is either arafax or glork. If I'm killed in the night, then it will be obvious that bdwhox and bigal are lying, and we can lynch them. If bdwhox is killed, then it will be obvious that I am lying, and bigal's investigation would win you the game.

[Yamahako]

bigAl & bdwhox : If you will not vote Yamahoko you make me feel that you are lying in your claims...I honestly think that you are telling the truth in your claims...I just for the life of me can not figure out why you both won't vote Yamahoko.

I am completely against a no lynch day...We know who scum is...Why are we letting them go???...Also, Scum can kill off one of their own in the night to throw suspicion onto bigAl & bdwhox...I think that we know that Yamahoko is scum...Vote him off.

My Vote: Yamahoko stays!

Arafax, they can't vote for me, because if I get lynched, and it says "Yamahako, the LSD fairy, was lynched" then they lose the game.

I know for certain that you are a townie, but you are acting like a scum.

If I

am

scum, then a no lynch means I can't kill off BigAl or bdwhox tonight because it will prove their innocence - and thus out me. I also can't target myself or my partner who, if I'm scum, is either you or Glork. (or in a twisted scenario where I planned to claim doc, and we decided on no kill at night - Joker). That means I only have 2 possible targets to kill at night (Joker or arafax/glork)- that gives the Doc a possible 1/2 shot at saving someone.

If bdwhoX is scum, then they can kill you, or Glork, or Joker and not raise suspicion since it won't confirm anything. That gives the doc a 1/3 shot of saving someone.

Both scenarios of a no-kill leave the town alive tomorrow. If we lynch a townie (looking to be either me or bdwhoX if there is a lynch) then not only are we losing a townie, but we are losing the doc - who is the only chance to save the game in the case that we mislynch.

This is why I was so adamant about not having the doc claim. If we nail the wrong person, and the mafia know who the doc is - its game over. Luckily for me, bdwhox messed up - and since BigAl confims him I know who

both

the mafia are.

If you vote me off, we lose the game. Since you can't trust me on that - you need to trust that the best plan of action is to not lynch anyone.

[Yamahako]

The thing is, it would make absolutely no sense whatsoever for Yamahako to counter-claim doc if he's a scumbag. Why? Because if we believe him, that would mean that both Al and bdwhoX were lying, and that they tried

to hope for the 1/4 chance that there was no doc or cop

.

It isn't a 1/4 chance. BigAl wasn't counter claimed as cop. That was their gamble. And it was only 50/50. bdwhoX could claim doc under *any* circumstances after he was cleared by "cop" BigAl. Because either there simply isn't a doc, or the doc will claim. At which point the "cleared" BigAl and bdwhoX can simply lynch the doc

or anyone else

and then night kill the doc so the game ends tonight. Worst case senario for them was a counter-claim to BigAl, which would then only out one of them if we decided BigAl was lying (since you couldn't be sure he would have cleared his partner). The risk was virtually gone for them once BigAl was un-counterclaimed. I mean that's the scenario we are in now. No one counter-claimed BigAl. bdwhoX claimed doc, and "protected" joker (his biggest opponent). Since I'm the doc - I had to counter-clam, they were scot free because I look like scum for counter-claiming. Win/Win for them.

If I was scum - I would have had

no reason

to claim. It makes me suspicious, and gaurentees that mafia looses on day three after I'm lynched.

[Yamahako]

bdwhox: If you ARE the doctor and someone counterclaims you, you know for a FACT that they are scum. There are never two doctors. There is never a reason to hold a vote back if you know for a fact someone is scum.

This seems like a pretty good reason for you to change your vote Ara, they need two votes on me to speed lynch me and end the game - they don't have that so they want to hold off. I understand your misgivings, that's why we suggest that you don't vote. If you don't want a no lynch that's fine. But besides your intuition there's no reason to be so sure they are right.

[Yamahako]

Scum counterclaim all of the time! Example: In newbie 196, The cop claimed with an innocent result, then the doc claimed, scum counterclaimed the doc and eventually won the game. Scum are usually smart to counterclaim, especially when it is narrowed down to three (Yamahoko, Glork and myself) and they often win the game with the counterclaim!

On this logic wouldn't scum always want to claim doc first since the counter claimee is "definatly" scum?

[Yamahako]

I don't like the way bigAl and Glork aren't attacking each other enough. The only way they're both town is if it's Yama and Arafax. A while back my hunch was Glork and bigAl were the scum, playing us noobs. But that seems impossible with the two docs.

I've stated before that, though I was certainly suspicious of BigAl on Day One (I remember pointing out that he was lurking a lot), I've been thinking that Arafax is scummier. I will re-evaluate my opinion of BigAl makes some kind of ridiculous gambit as scum.

doc bdwhoX: Yama

scum bdwhoX: Yama

cop bigAl: Yama

scum bigAl: Yama

townie Arafax: bigAl or Yama

scum Arafax: bdwhoX

townie Glork: bigAl or Yama

scum Glork: bdwhoX
doc Yama: bigAl or bdwhoX
scum Yama: bdwhoX

townie Joker: bigAl or Yama

Isn't that five townies who could/should be voting Yama? Why isn't he lynched yet? It seems that nobody as scum would want to vote Yama. That indicates that he is the right play for today. I'm more comfortable lynching Yama today and leaving the bigAl/Arafax/Glork matter for tomorrow. I want to go with what is most likely to be the best lynch, and I think we've illustrated that it's Yamahako.

BigAl is the safest lynch in this case then because it leaves the doc to protect at night in either case. If BigAl is definatly scum (being either my partner or bdwhow's), which I know him to be because I know bdwhow is scum, then isn't he better seeing as how that leaves the doc a chance to protect a townie tonight? Nothing in my PM said I couldn't protect myself, making a 1 scum night kill a mite bit harder.

[Yamahako]

BigAl is the safest lynch in this case

It's neither safer nor less safe because if we lynch wrong, we lose.

Nothing in my PM said I couldn't protect myself

I thought docs couldn't protect themselves, but I just looked for it in the rules post 0 and I don't see it. Hmm...

no lynch is the safest, but if we are going to lynch someone, then BigAl is safer than bdwhox or me, since ONE of us is the doc - we'll be alive to try and save someone tonight.

[Yamahako]

/Shrug

it's your funeral!

[Yamahako]

Is it over - can I post again?

[Yamahako]

Yeah, I think I played it too hastily. I didn't think I was in trouble - I just didn't like the 33% chance of hitting arafax. I had the sub claim earlier and had to use it then or else I couldn't later, but I didn't to it very well. I knew I had to do it when there wasn't any suspicion on me because otherwise it would look like a last ditch effort to save my self - I was hoping that Joker would be skeptical, and Glork would back me up, and we'd only have to convince Arafax - and then we'd have gotten rid of bdwhox... Then when it backfired, I thought that a no lynch would give me time to figure the rest out with Glork since we couldn't talk durring the say. Sorry I messed it up for you Glork - I tried to implicate arafax more strongly with my suggestions but obviously I still have a lot to learn! great game can't wait to play number 2.