Newbie 1143 - Game Over

[Gen_Wolf]

/confirm

[Gen_Wolf]

Vote: Effortless

[Gen_Wolf]

I hope saldyn is innocent then, to be honest i just picked a name randomly off the list.

Also if I was working with Saldyn, which I am not, dont you think its a little to early to be defending him?

[Gen_Wolf]

Haylens questions
1. Is there any time coming up where we can expect you to not be very active?

Weekends will prob be a little slack

2. Have you familiarized yourself with Mafia Discussion and the Wiki?

Yup

3. Have you read at least one completed game on site?

I have read day one of a couple of games to see how it plays out, nothing further than that

4. What is your experience level? How many games have you played?

I have played a few games on another site but nothing to this level, my first one on here and to this length/time scale

[Gen_Wolf]

I hope saldyn is innocent then,

Why? Because it will make you look good? Explain please.

If saldyn is guilty, I propose to hang Gen_Wolf next, in that he is also a mafia member. If saldyn is innocent, I propose we do not hang Gen_Wolf in the next day phase

The simple answer is yes, if Saldyn is innocent then according to TravisB logic I am innocent.

[Gen_Wolf]

Thomith, I wasn't trying to hide behind a town person, i was actually trying to prove to TravisB how his logic wasn't correct and that it wouldn't work out. I've got nothing to hide, and there's no need for me to hide behind someone.

Unvote: Effortless

Now, Thomith your very quick to jump in all the action and point fingers at people who are posting, there are a few people that arn't posting and keeping quite! Why?

Lastly, I believe TravisB to be scum, he was very quick to jump into the action, with his first post trying to get us to lynch someone, there was no thought process behind it and was merely just going for it with no worries, which leads me to believe that he didn't mind who he killed as the result would of benefited him - making him scum

[Quote playername="TravisB"] I urge you all to join me in this effort [/quote]

Vote: TravisB

[Gen_Wolf]

Thomith, I wasn't trying to hide behind a town person, i was actually trying to prove to TravisB how his logic wasn't correct and that it wouldn't work out. I've got nothing to hide, and there's no need for me to hide behind someone.

Unvote: Effortless

Now, Thomith your very quick to jump in all the action and point fingers at people who are posting, there are a few people that arn't posting and keeping quite! Why?

Lastly, I believe TravisB to be scum, he was very quick to jump into the action, with his first post trying to get us to lynch someone, there was no thought process behind it and was merely just going for it with no worries, which leads me to believe that he didn't mind who he killed as the result would of benefited him - making him scum

I urge you all to join me in this effort

Vote: TravisB

EBWOP

[Gen_Wolf]

Thomith, I wasn't trying to hide behind a town person, i was actually trying to prove to TravisB how his logic wasn't correct and that it wouldn't work out.

Can you clarify this? You said you hoped saldyn would turn out to be innocent because it would make you innocent by TravisB's logic. But now you're saying that logic is terrible, so how would it change anything?

Ok, I think we're getting caught up on this. This is more about how TravisB had a bad idea and i was merely pointing out that it wouldn't work?

[Gen_Wolf]

If i could add my 2 cents in here, I personally feel Effortless answered his questions well, and I know you are all going to think im defending him because he defended me, as was pointed out earlier by someone... So right now i struggle to see Effortless as scum and I see the point he was trying to get across I however feel he is wrong.

As for Thomith, i've been watching you closely since the beginning! You've been very active but your very quick to accuse people for the smallest things, your also very quick to change votes and jump from one person to the next! You've also been asking all the questions and attacking everyone which is very scum like i feel... Earlier you stated:

I want to lynch you

Yet now your the one withdrawing your vote because "He is to close to being lynched" you had a very quick change of mind for someone who was sure of there decision???

[Gen_Wolf]

while I appreciate tomith's defense, the amount that tomith and effortless have been directly arguing with each other, and almost only each other, makes me wonder if they are purposefully trying to separate themselves from one another..?

QFT

I have been thinking that as well, I was going to give it a bit of time and see how much longer it would of gone on for, but I have been noticing it too... Its very suspicious that so early on you could be having such a go at each other... It also allows for Thomith to withdraw his vote because his partner in crime was close to being voted out and it worried him!

As for Thomith, it doesnt say much for your credibility the fact your

[quote="Thomith']The "i want to lynch you" was not legit[/quote]

Does that mean we cant trust anything else you have said up to this point as this is clearly a false threat and could mean that anything else you have said is also not true??? Also why would he think your questions arn't important, is it because you two are scum trying to make each other look innocent???

Very suspicious Mr Thomith!!!!!

[Gen_Wolf]

Thomith, you really are sticking out to me, I am trying to keep and open mind and objective views on all issues I do however struggle to with you:

Firstly:
I feel like your almost pleading for us to believe you however you saying (below) doesn't make you look very good.

If you were to lynch me i wouldn't blame you as i definately made a mistake with the gambit/lie i pulled, however i promise you everything else i have said was legit other than the gambit.

The whole reason for LAL(Lynch all Liars) is because you have lied and you saying 'i promise everything else is true' is hard to believe when you lied to us once before, however you did admit the lie but I feel your opinion and thoughts aren't going to make a huge impact on my decision as I dont know if I will be able to trust it until you can build up your credibility again! I feel this is fair...

As for the "I was trying to pressure him" I feel your using it too much as an excuse and I think you need better reasoning to justify it[it being your sudden change of heart and lack of pressure on effortless]!

Lastly, Saldyn, I feel you've been a little quite as a whole (if your on V/LA i apologize), however, just curious to know your thoughts on the game and also why you cast your vote for me?

[Gen_Wolf]

Anyway, I'm really interested what Haylen and Travis have to say. Haylen in particular made no substantial post as a player (the IC posts were very helpful, but it won't help us figure out if she's scum).

Too add on to this, Travis has been very quite since i called him out so early on, almost as if I was right and he is now being all quite as it was a close call first time round!

[Gen_Wolf]

I have a migraine. Give me until tomorrow, please. <3

This is very suspicious! Jokes! Get Better!

[Gen_Wolf]

I must say, it has gone a bit quite!

My thoughts, I think everyone has answered well but to me Travis had an early slip up and until i hear from him again(if we hear from him at this rate) he will remain my vote.

I see Hazard has two votes from Thomith and Oz, i've read the discussion but just some personal insight into your thoughts their?

[Gen_Wolf]

I know you are all going to think im defending him because he defended me, as was pointed out earlier by someone

Why was this necessary to state? Guilty conscience?

Necessary because if I hadn't stated it someone would of been like "Effortless defending Wolf, Wolf defending effortless... I think scum" where as i stated it because I don't mind answering questions about it, so rather than beat around the bush, just be honest and to the point...

However, Effortless wasn't protecting me, he was just stating his opinion which someone thought it was him defending me

[Gen_Wolf]

UNVOTE

As guilty as i still think Travis is, I will change my vote just to get the game going...

VOTE: Hazard

I believe this is

L:1

[Gen_Wolf]

Thomith, put your vote back on...

Unvote

As inappropriate as it is to put someone on L:1 on day 7, nothing was happening in the game it had come to a stand still... Why not put a little pressure on Hazard see how he responds other than that and like I said in the post where i voted for him it was merely to get the game going (and it worked) and also that i still think travis is guilty so hope that answers your questions...

VOTE: Travis

[Gen_Wolf]

Thomith, put your vote back on...

Unvote

As inappropriate as it is to put someone on L:1 on page 7, nothing was happening in the game it had come to a stand still... Why not put a little pressure on Hazard see how he responds other than that and like I said in the post where i voted for him it was merely to get the game going (and it worked) and also that i still think travis is guilty so hope that answers your questions...

VOTE: Travis

ebwop i just woke up

[Gen_Wolf]

@genwolf: do you think travis is scummy because he is lurking? or are there other reasons?

I see early signs of collusion with saldyn and Gen_Wolf. With little explanation, Gen_Wolf came to the protection of saldyn from Effortless' vote. I'm curious to see how these two act in the future. For now, my vote is for saldyn. I urge everyone to join me in this effort. If saldyn is guilty, I propose to hang Gen_Wolf next, in that he is also a mafia member. If saldyn is innocent, I propose we do not hang Gen_Wolf in the next day phase.

That was the main thing that got my suspicion going, but to behonest since then he hasn't done much, which in its self could be considered suspicious! So in fairness there isnt much against him so I will unvote but IGMEOY Travis!

Unvote

[Gen_Wolf]

Unvote

. Although I still see reason for Gen_Wolf and Saldyn, I'm going to retract the vote until I read into everything a little more.

I'll be AFK this evening as my daughter is celebrating her successful participation in a stage production of "The Wizard of Oz."

Congrats!

Too add on to this, Travis has been very quite since i called him out so early on, almost as if I was right and he is now being all quite as it was a close call first time round!

Sorry, I'm back.



I'd just like to point out how Thomith is pretty successfully "running the table," so to speak on this game, and would caution everyone treading near him. Anyone that goes after him seems to be labeled scummy very quickly. Although I don't consider that enough yet for a vote, or even consideration of a vote, it still is something added to the mental check list.


I still keep my reserves on both Gen and saldyn. Gen went straight after me, and continues to despite my silence. It seems vendetta~ish.

Well you original attack and then length of lurking didn't help much for your case! However, seeing as you have now returned I will wait and see how you play this game out!

[Gen_Wolf]

Sorry i been a little quite, very busy weekend but as stated usually busy most weekends!

Anyways, my thoughts on what i've just seen...

Lizk seems to just be following the bandwagon and suspects everyone else the majority suspect, could be sheepish (I'm very certain someone made this observation already) or could be scum, will be watching you, however you have made some valid points in the last few posts!

Thomith, you seem to be asking a lot of questions! Maybe just contribute a little and let the questions pose themselves for a while, want to get your perspective!

@Daybid, im guessing at some point you will/already have read through the game as far as we are now! what are your thoughts on it?

[Gen_Wolf]

Good exchange! Well played Thomith!

Daybid, you were very quick to change topic there to Lurkers, trying to take the spotlight off yourself? This is becauseyour scum trying to deviate attention!

UNVOTE: VOTE: Daybid

[Gen_Wolf]

Well Daybid seemed very suspicious at first, and thought a little pressure would help, but he seems to be townie to me!

I'm a little suspicous of Effortless, why are you thinking that Thomith is no longer town?

Two people i am unsure of are lizk and ozzie! need to do a reread of there posts!

[Gen_Wolf]

@Effortless I guess you''ve got me figured out.

If this is sarcasm it's not read very well over the internet. Due to not knowing, I'm going to take it as truth.

Vote Hazard

Wondering whether Hazard is being sarcastic or openly admitting to being scum. Seriously?

For me, weather its a joke or reverse psychology on town, I agree with effortless and find this completely unhelpful! Personally for this stupid comment I think it's just beneficial to get rid of Hazard... He's very mixed up in all of this and I know a few people have there suspicions but I really thing he is scum trying to be clever! For trying to be such a smartarse:

UNVOTE: VOTE: HAZARD

[Gen_Wolf]

Flame, votecount please?

[Gen_Wolf]

I'm back, sorry a little bit of V/LA!

I do have a few thoughts but some must wait until i've seen the updated vote count cause its just a theory! Other than that, I must agree that Thomith does ask a lot of questions and then you get the impression he ignores the answer. Almost as if he is trying to be to clever at times!!!

Lizk, i'm not to sure on, I get the impression Thomith is dragging you into some petty battle about contradictions and all that... So i think if you focus on other people and re read what others had to say you could give some reads on them rather than focusing all your time on Thomith for now

@Ozzie: Not really understanding the "Inflating the post count..." care to explain?

@Effortless: Seems like your trying to get a little bit of a bandwagon going on Thomith... a little scummy???

[Gen_Wolf]

@gen: how is effortless trying to start a bandwagon on tomith? He voted for travis. I'm the one trying a get a bandwagon going on tomith (which not enough of you are getting aboard on).

Ya, sorry ive confused myself,let me reread and then repost

[Gen_Wolf]

You were asked to provide evidence and yet you didn't. Why is this?

i have been most of the game and the reactions i get out of people usually helps confirm their allignment

Thomith, thats a load of fluff! The question was "Why is this?" so your answer should be a long the lines of "I didn't provide evidence because I was lazy" not that you have done it for everything else so this one time your allowed to get away with it!

However, I think the answer is "I had no evidence and I was making false accusations because I am scum" your always having a go at people for avoiding questions when you have been doing it a whole lot!

I also thought that either Thomith or Lizk was scummy but didn't know which one! After re-reading i'm starting to suspect you Thomith and depending on how many votes you have I will be voting for you (Just need to check quickly)

[Gen_Wolf]

Thomith, I would say time is running out...

UNVOTE: VOTE: Thomith

L-1

Anyways, Thomith I wouldn't be suprised if the hammer is dropped this time so I want to hear what you have to say as you always like putting people in "pressure situations" here is yours...

[Gen_Wolf]

I agree, I don't think Scum didnt try kill!

Things are a bit slow, any thoughts?

[Gen_Wolf]

I absolutley 100% agree with ozzia above! Effortless is pushing so hard for everyone else being scum that it now looks so blatently obvious he is the scum! I also think lizk is a townie!

Also, ran out of cap on my computer so will be using my phone until I get my internet back but I will post my thoughts but will be a little tricky to quote and vote!

So for now: fos: effortless!

[Gen_Wolf]

Flame, I'm still about, just waiting for inet on my compiter to connect!

[Gen_Wolf]

Haylen, I can't quote right now, but what do you find scummy about me? I have nothing to hide so ask away? Also, we'll come lunita!

My thoughts at the moment are I am suspicious of Haylen trying to put pressure on me when I'm pretty sure makority of the game have said they think I'm town, seems scummy like haylen is pushing for another mislynch! The other is effortless, and although he has answered questions well recently, we did suspect him on day 1 and he was close to a hammer! Maybe we were right first time round?

vote: effortless

[Gen_Wolf]

Wolf: I was really only pushing Hazard and Thomith. I think there were good reasons for both although in retrospect I should have realized that I was annoyed with Thomith and was trying to rationalize lynching him.

No... you also pushed on Lizk and Travis.... You said Travis was a 'safe' lynch and Lizk you pushed for quite a few posts.

Effortless gives the impression of being scum who was looking for a place to hang his hat ('anyone but me'), but wants to rewrite history now and think we'll forget, so he doesn't come off as so obvious.

Push on Lizk:

I still encourage everyone to vote for lizk.

We should vote for lizk because her play is suspicious.

I'm accusing lizk because I feel like she might actually be a good candidate to lynch, depending on her answers.

In the end it comes down to this: Is lizk trying to avoid attention, while trying to look somewhat active at the same time?
I think she does, and I think that's a good reason to vote for her.

This is such a convincing case put forward by Lunita I dont see how you can look past it really, my vote stays with effortless!

As for Haylen, why the sudden questioning on me? Were you re-reading the game and had no reads so thought "ah let me just take a shot at wolfie over there" as for your little comment of

There's probably other stuff too because gut reads don't come from no where

Clearly they do, you cant lynch someone on day 2 based on a gut read, if you found something I said and then had a go, but your going on a gut read... nice

As for Thor(Welcome to the game ) I really enjoyed reading your post, made it a little more entertaining with sarcasm and wit thrown in there... However, as what you said about me was 100% completely wrong, how am i meant to trust your reads on anyone else... you could be pushing for a second mislynch and giving your scum partner the "O i think he isn't scum" and you hide this all in a bit of wit and sarcasm and throw them all into the pool.

Anyways, my thoughts for now:

Effortless: Scum as they come... Lynch him!

Haylen: A little FoS for suddenly changing tacts, but also a little curious as it seems to me that she is unsure of who is scum and who isn't and she doesn't have anyone in particular in mind.

Thor: Funny, seeing as he just started I haven't got much to say other than I don't know how much of what he says in the future I can trust purely based on his super long post...

As for the others, they've been around but nothing has stood out to me just yet!

[Gen_Wolf]

I encourage everyone to post their thoughts even if it's just something like: "I haven't really picked up anything yet," or "I'm really confused". FOS anyone who's suspicious, or at least whoever is most suspicious.

As far as I can see, we had discussions about Gen_Wolf, me, Thomith and Hazard (plus liz but no one other than me seem to have taken that seriously).

I mean, I'd really, really like to hear from the lurkers (Heylen especially) but there's no reason why we can't have a discussion while we're waiting for them.

This is scum to me, the way he is trying really hard to draw attention off himself by saying that people had discussed him and he was safe! It's so unnecessary but it is something you would do if you had something to hide, what could that be... O wait he is SCUM!!!!

[Gen_Wolf]

Clearly they do, you cant lynch someone on day 2 based on a gut read, if you found something I said and then had a go, but your going on a gut read... nice

The best reads are a combination of gut and logic. This is one of those reads.

@ Thor - How can you not see how my questions are crucial to an IC and as a player of a game?

really?

. If you want to tell me how to do my job then try reading between the lines first.

Logic wasn't mentioned first time round, and lets see the logic! I don't think i'm overreacting, just answering your questions... enthusiastically!
What are your thoughts on Effortless while we are at it?

[Gen_Wolf]

Logic wasn't mentioned first time round, and lets see the logic! I don't think i'm overreacting, just answering your questions... enthusiastically!
What are your thoughts on Effortless while we are at it?

To me this seems like gen going, "oh shit, I am really overreacting, let's change the subject, quick!"

I haven't been able to read it all yet, but Lizk nailed it dead on above, as for Thor, mate you can lynch me today but when i turn up town, and I will turn up town it might be a short day 3 for you!

Till then I will read the rest later and give my response! have a good day!

[Gen_Wolf]

Well reading through, to answer Lunita, the basic answer was because I was unsure of who was scum at the time but to answer in detail:

- Although he never mentions any suspicion of Hazard (Thor), he votes Hazard (Thor) on August 10 and puts him at L-1 "to get the game going" and switches back to Travis when questioned on placing someone at L-1
[*Though I don't think this is a scumtell in this case]

This is how it shows. At the time i had no suspicions of Hazard, yet the game had slowed up, posting was at an almost stand still and to try bring the game to life I put Hazard on L1, when Travis made a comment, being the newb i am as it is my first game, i got scared of doing something wrong and took my vote off... In hind sight I should of left that vote on and waited for Hazard to respond, however also in hindsight, scum might of dropped the hammer on him to get a lynch so still not sure if that was good or bad?

Votes Daybid Aug. 14, next day unvotes saying though Daybid was "very suspicious" but now thinks he's town. Says he suspicious of effortless and questions why effortless thinks Thomith isn't town.

And I don't see how this is a bad thing? I questioned effortless as to why he thought a player was non town and guess what, that player was town. Secondly, I still think effortless is scum as i did at that time?

Lastly, yes i did vote Thomith, but so did 4 other people and i did vote Thomith because in those 4 days between my votes my judgement had been swayed!

Yes, I voted a lot, but I voted when I thought something of a person, Thor makes it sound worse than it is! I voted days apart after I had a reason to vote! Lunita, I feel you don't believe i'm scum but have been talked into it by Thor as a lot of you will most likely be! And like I said before, it's not that me that will lose out it is the town.

I've done nothing but probe on day 1 asking questions trying to get the scum to stand out, i put L1 pressure votes on, I asked questions, I suspected people and i actively posted... On day 2, Thor rocks up and ive been defending since... And i'm not going to anymore, I'm doing what I was before!

So

@Effortless: What was the question, sorry I must of missed it?

@Thor, your new to the game yet your posting the most and you could say "almost taken charge of the scumhunt" don't you think this is a little bold being a new player? Also, starting bandwagon on someone who will turn up town (AKA me) will only be detrimental to you but also the town! So think before you act!

@Everyone else, what are your current thoughts on how the game is progressing, also what do you think of Thor's play?

[Gen_Wolf]

You claim your mind changed between the two posts I noted. In one post you were pressing on effortless (for reasons that weren't legit) and claimed you were going to rephrase the assault.
In the next you were voting Thomith.
Today you're back at effortless via sheeping Ozzie.
.

Thor, Sheeping Ozzie really? haha thats a good laugh actually i enjoyed that!
Ok, well your mind is set, nothing I say makes you think differently so i wont waste my time, I will be productive!

Also, yes everyone will claim town, what I said to you, and because you didn't read properly because your so super eager to respond in such a smart way is: WHEN I DO TURN UP TOWN, DO YOU NOT THINK THAT WILL BE DETRIMENTAL TO YOU, AND TO TOWN?? There was no IF in there it was a WHEN, its not a scare tactic it was the truth!

Stop being so subjective and answering all the questions that make you look good and start being productive and answering questions for face value!

[Gen_Wolf]

I've told you why Ive voted for Effortless, maybe you should read the last page again! Again, that goes back to my theory that you dont actually read everything! You take what you want and modify it for how you want it to sound and leave out everything else inbetween, which seems to me is quite a bit!

As for your gameplay method! That is awful, that is such a gun hoe method! O here is an idea, why don't we just line everyone in the world up and shoot them all because that way atleast one of the 6 billion people is going to be a criminal!

Your proving to me, and I would like to hope to everyone else that your not a very credible player and that your methods arn't so accurate! So one you have basically just admitted is that you will bandwagon potentially every other player in this game, and it doesn't matter if they are town or not because that is one player less to worry about!

Anyways,

Unvote: Vote: Thor

This is NOT a OMGUS vote, this is a OMG you are completely retarded vote!

[Gen_Wolf]

@Lunita - Sorry didn't see your post earlier but to answer your question:

Daybid was new to the game on Aug 14th and on that same day i asked him

@Daybid, im guessing at some point you will/already have read through the game as far as we are now! what are your thoughts on it?

Post #207

Now, from me posting that there was a discussion between daybid and a few players, some comments were made by Daybid, there was then a discussion between daybid and a few other players ensued... also two votes were cast on Daybid, Thomith & Haylen.

Then in post #221 Daybid short replied and suddenly changed focus of conversation from himself to Travis B, which immediately raised my suspicion along with the conversation that happened between posts #207 and #221... that let to me voting for Daybid because firstly, he was new and he already had 3 players, it was a pressure vote to see what information we could get out of him as obviously his old character didnt give us to much.

Also, I didn't like the sudden change of topic, it didn't sit right with me so I thought there would be no harm in putting a vote on him until a more convincing came a long!

[Gen_Wolf]

Hmmm, I thought I was sheeping Ozzie... Anyways, this is the post I was refering too and it was on page 17 not 18 sorry

I absolutley 100% agree with ozzia above! Effortless is pushing so hard for everyone else being scum that it now looks so blatently obvious he is the scum! I also think lizk is a townie!

Also, ran out of cap on my computer so will be using my phone until I get my internet back but I will post my thoughts but will be a little tricky to quote and vote!

So for now: fos: effortless!

Now you called me a sheep, IF YOU READ THE SECOND LINE (because we have discussed this already, you don't like too read all of the post you like reading just one little incy line but dontworry i bolded it for you to make it that much easier

Also, ran out of cap on my computer so will be using my phone until I get my internet back but I will post my thoughts but will be a little tricky to quote and vote!

I don't understand what your asking here:

Also, please explain why you hoped on Thomith after saying you were going to rephrase your Effortless case yesterday - I still don't understand how that happened. COuld you walk me through it (I'm a terrible player, so please use small words).

Could you use smaller words please? but seriously, what do you want?

[Gen_Wolf]

I absolutley 100% agree with ozzia above! Effortless is pushing so hard for everyone else being scum that it now looks so blatently obvious he is the scum! I also think lizk is a townie!

Also, ran out of cap on my computer so will be using my phone until I get my internet back but I will post my thoughts but will be a little tricky to quote and vote!

So for now: fos: effortless!

Now you called me a sheep, IF YOU READ THE SECOND LINE (because we have discussed this already, you don't like too read all of the post you like reading just one little incy line but dontworry i bolded it for you to make it that much easier

Also, ran out of cap on my computer so will be using my phone until I get my internet back but I will post my thoughts but will be a little tricky to quote and vote!

O and before you ask, No, i never got around to quoting my evidence on the effortless case! But if you reallly reallllly want me to, don't worry I will do it!

[Gen_Wolf]

@Gen I know Thor doesn't need anyone to stand up for him, but I feel the need to say something because it feels to me like you're attacking him personally -- not just his arguments. I think he's a great player and mentor, and I was excited to see he joined this game. I feel like I learn something from reading his posts and that it will improve my own play in the future.

Don't you think you're overreacting? After all, how can we figure out who to trust without fully examining them?

Off Game Topic:

Ok, if that's how it came across i fully apologize to all, and Thor you especially I really am sorry but in no case what so ever did I mean it to come across that way! I do get frustrated when people don't read things fully, but I wasn't trying to attack him personally but more just point out that he is missing the point! And yes I might of done it in a very sarcastic way but at no point was I trying to attack him personally! Sorry Thor and All!

On Game Topic:

@Thor/Lunita: I noticed just before you swapped in (I think its the post before Thor was swapped in) Haylen started accusing me of suspicions from there side, did you see that and did that bias your opinion or is that fully from reads before you got to that point?

[Gen_Wolf]

Here you're "not sure" about lizk, and strongly suspect effortless.

Lizk i was unsure of because I felt she had a little bit of redmist syndrome going on as she and Thomith were in a heavy debate/conversation? and i felt that she wasn't able to convey what she was tryign to say because of that.

Effortless at this time wasn't really on my radar until them, so strongly suspect is a little OTT, I would say that was more of a little jab in the ribs to see what his reaction to that would of been.

Here lizk calls you out for the silliness in your effortless push, you admit you are wrong and want to reread so you can rephrase your case.

Here, I'm not to sure why I backed off, but Lizk saying "I'm the one trying to start a bandwagon" gave me her intentions so i backed off a little, can't tell you why

Here in your next post, you don't mention effortless at all - you say you suspect lizk and Thomith...and then you L-1 Thomith. You do not discus effortless again that day, but at the start of day you suspect him more than anyone.

Ok, at this point I dropped the effortless push because of Lizk's comment "I'm the one trying to start a bandwagon", at this point the two were having such a debate over each other that i was certain one of the two had to be Scum, because of the way Thomith had played Day 1 I thought it was him as I don't recall ever fully suspecting Lizk, that is why I voted Thomith... The reason I then picked up the effortless push today is because like I said before the whole Lizk Thomith incident it is where i had finished so not thinking Lizk was ever scum I went back to pick up from effortless!

I then reread day one, with the thought of Thomith being Town and certain things stood out to me which i then quoted for Day 2.

As for the Haylen question, I was never saying you did Sheep her, it was more just a question to know if you had any thoughts going into your first read over of the game!

At this point, I think Myself, Lunita and Thor have discussed an awful lot, there are another 5 players in this game! What are your thoughts?

[Gen_Wolf]

To your second point; this just doesn't make sense to me. Hypothetically, if I was scum, me calling tomith, a townie, scum would not be an error of stating more knowledge than I would have had if I was town. Sorry, that sentence doesn't sound very coherent, but I don't really know how else to put it.

@Lizk Scum have absolute knowledge on who is scum and who is town. Unlike town who only know that they are town and have no clue what alignment the other people are. As a result, scum are operating from a position of certainty and knowledge, and town are operating from a position of odds/hunches/feels.

So when I questioned your saying, "Thomith is definitely scum," my point was that your post was speaking from a place of certainty -- that's what I was keying in on... not on the lie itself. My thought is that town at this point would not make so certain a declaration but rather a "I really, really think Thomith is scum." Make sense now?

Ok, fair enough, this makes a lot more sense. I guess I just said that in such a way because I really really thought he was scum, I just got a bit too excited.


The pressure got even heavier on you, and then you just said, "i don't like to have to defend myself, so I am going to stop and instead ask other people questions." After Day 1's mishap, I completely understand analyzing every possible suspect, but it's not okay just for you to be like, I'm done answering questions.

I realised at the time it wasn't a very good thing to say, however, even since saying that I have still answered all questions posed to me! So even though i said it out of frustration I still did answer the questions!

[Gen_Wolf]

@Flame, I have 3 votes, haylen voted for me as well

Off to work, check in later

[Gen_Wolf]

Alright, I guess the hammer is about to drop so here is my farewell to all! Make it quick, not painful

I am infact, A

Vanilla Townie

, so Townie's out there, please look into Effortless and Haylen when I am gone, especially Effortless, he is scum as they come! However, seeing as you voted me you know best so I will leave you too it

But seriously, look into Effortless... Anyways was a good first game I enjoyed

[Gen_Wolf]

Ok, well I cant answer right now as i'm going out for dinner!

However, I had expected the hammer to fall right now, but looking at the advice and questions I will get my last say in tomorrow morning (its now friday afternoon, 5;53) however my worry is someone (like a sub comes in and drops the hammer before i get a chance) but just a quick off the top of my head:

Lunita, as much as I want to fight it i've played day 2 very badly and there is no coming back from the hole I have dug, I can give you many why I shouldn't be lynched but at the end of it realistically and sadly for town, I will be lynched! However, I can give you my thoughts on who I think is scum and why... but that is for tomorrow...

@Effortless, I'll go back and give you a point by point tomorrow

@Quildford, you've come in and rather than post your own thoughts from reading through you've straight away asked for everyone else's opinion that doesn't help us, so can you please post your thoughts of what you think of the last 2 days! However, seeing as it will be bias in my favour, look at who you think is second scummiest and why and let us know!

Post in T-minus 13 hours!

[Gen_Wolf]

Well, got home earlier than expected so here are my thoughts:

As much as i dont wan't to be voted off, its hard for me to bounce back! Things going for me are that, I played day 1 well

But no, What I will do is I am going to go and get some evidence against the people I think are scum or slightly suspicious and post it in the next few posts; Effortless, you can hold the vote as long as possible but the fact will remain the same, I will be lynched and delaying it any further will only postpone the game but might help scum dig there covers deeper...

So Here goes:
Effortless: I've read and re-read and as much as I hate admitting i'm wrong, I think im wrong about Effortless, I feel that in the past I was making certain situations fit for him being scum but overall, after re-reading again I feel that he is Townie! (I hope i don't regret changing this decision). Reasons that changed me, in particular his arguments with Thomith, they are so similar and we all know Thomith turned up townie, and I feel they were both trying to fight for townie so Effortless = Townie for now (If im wrong Im going to punch myself... HARD)

Haylen: I still feel Haylen is scum, he was called out for active lurking which struck me as a bit odd at first but I didn't say anything, however, I feel that he has been very good at not saying a lot but when he does it is a lot of fluff coming out of his mouth, he is also always trying to divert attention from himself... A perfect example of this was me, and this is what im talking about

I'd like to know everyone's read on Gen_Wolf because something doesn't quite sit right with him.

Gen_Wolf wrote:
Also if I was working with Saldyn, which I am not, dont you think its a little to early to be defending him?

There's this. Which is WIFOM in itself and also it didn't really need to be said.

There's probably other stuff too because gut reads don't come from no where, but I need to sleep right now.

So, its very short, before this post he hasn't posted a lot and flame has prodded him, so "He had no time to reread the game thread" yet he can make such an indepth analyze to call me up on, that post he quoted from me was from page 2, anyone can bring a point up on page 17 and say "ooo this is really suspcious' it was still in the RVS, and he ends of by saying its WIFOM, how can it be WIFOM if this is my first game, he then proceeded to say

"There is prob other stuff too because gut reads dont come from no where"

yet he never provided that "Other stuff"

Therefore, I believe Haylen has done a very good job of getting us townies to chase our tales!

Lastly, Thor, something didnt sit quite right with Hazard and the same goes for you! Maybe it is coincidental and its both your characters but chances are slim, however saying that im not quite sure what it is, you do a good job of probing for answers and you get your answers, so your in the middle, a little between town and scum!

So anyways, to round off:

When i turn up town, these are my SUGGESTIONS (As i realize, i am dead and its very unlikely you will follow them, however they are there so i can say i told you so )
1. Dont get night killed
2. After night kill, lynch Haylen
3. Dont get night killed
4. I would say lynch effortless or thor however so much can happen in a day* that you must play it by ear

*I went from being super townie to super scum in the space of a day so a lot can change!

[Gen_Wolf]

I still feel Haylen is scum, he was called out for active lurking which struck me as a bit odd at first but I didn't say anything

It's not fluff if I provide evidence of it.

Yet you never provided evidence

I want evidence for diverting attention away from myself because that definitely hasn't happened. My indepth analyse came from your reactions. The possible sheeping of Ozzie made me suspicious of you so I decided to re-read you. I went to look for other stuff, but your reaction to my probing was sufficient enough for me to think you're scummy.

So your basing your entire analyse on one reaction when we are late in to day two? So during your reread what else did you find suspicious?

Note Gen's original vote on me was OMGUS. This is still OMGUS. I find it odd that his suspicions aren't matching his voting pattern though. He seems to be yelling most about me when it's Thor he's voting for.

If this was OMGUS, I would be voting for you, this isn't OMGUS, this is asking you a question to find out why you didnt provide evidence and secondly why didn't you follow up your original accusations! Therefore, we have proven this is not a OMGUS! Again, your trying to start a bandwagon on me by making up fluff! Your the one who is as scum as they come and I wouldn't be suprised if Thor is your scum buddy!

Oh dear. I've been paying so much attention to Gen that I'd be at a complete loss over who is scum whatever he flips. Great. Note, don't completely tunnel on one person, it'll get you stuck in a rut.

Why don't you do a re read and find someone else to bandwagon

[Gen_Wolf]

I still feel Haylen is scum, he was called out for active lurking which struck me as a bit odd at first but I didn't say anything

I wasn't active lurking. I was being inactive due to working 48 hrs a week on a combination of day and night shifts. It's not fluff if I provide evidence of it.

I want evidence for diverting attention away from myself because that definitely hasn't happened. My indepth analyse came from your reactions. The possible sheeping of Ozzie made me suspicious of you so I decided to re-read you. I went to look for other stuff, but your reaction to my probing was sufficient enough for me to think you're scummy.

Note Gen's original vote on me was OMGUS. This is still OMGUS. I find it odd that his suspicions aren't matching his voting pattern though. He seems to be yelling most about me when it's Thor he's voting for.

Oh dear. I've been paying so much attention to Gen that I'd be at a complete loss over who is scum whatever he flips. Great. Note, don't completely tunnel on one person, it'll get you stuck in a rut.

This is fluff, there is no evidence in there at all! its just you speaking about voting patterns? You didn't prove voting patterns, well you cant because there arnt any! Its FLUFF!

[Gen_Wolf]

THEN - at the start of the next day he was suddenly back voting you, a player you're saying he never had a strong issue with (do you see/agree with that?)

The rest of your post is basically explaining how he never had a strong suspicion of you which I say, GREAT because that makes my issues with him stronger, not weaker in any way, shape, or form. Also, whether or not he had strong issues with you, he was clearly working up to voting you yesterday up until the wagons shifted, and then he followed where they went. He doesn't have real reads because he's scum.

BTW, I kinda get what Thor is trying to say here. Problem is that there are a bunch of other explanations that he doesn't even bother mention.

Which is really my main issue. He never actually tried to look at Gen's case objectively. He uses every argument that he can think of hoping that we'll find at least one of them convincing enough to lynch Gen.

That's what ive been trying to say! And then I just gave up, got on some angry rant and then Thor used that against me as well!

[Gen_Wolf]

Anyways, here are my thoughts:

I think I will be lynched still, sadly

When i flip town, the two main suspects will be Haylen and Thor!

I think effortless is def town (If he isnt he played it very well) but i honestly think he is!

@Thor - the Wolf bandwagon died out when people saw me for a townie

And lastly, i'm going down fighting so

Unvote: Vote: Haylen

P.S. sorry for the broken post!

[Gen_Wolf]

Off to work! Will answer later for you both!

@Raceman: Why are those your two top suspects, some reasoning please?

[Gen_Wolf]

Effortless, dont stress, when the hammer is dropped, Lunita will lose all thought of a possible Gen/Effortless scum team! And hopefully see the Haylen/Thor scumminess!

As for your two questions:
1. If I was to accuse you of having no solid basis for any vote you make, and your votes changing more than a traffic light - what would be your answer to this?

I would agree that my vote would change frequently, however, there is always thought behind my vote! If its not to pressure someone into talking its because I genuinely believe they are scum and I provide my reasons for it!

2. What, specifically, do you think was a good point effortless made against me? (feel free to pick more than one, just as long as you describe why they're good points).

Well, the one that stands out most to me is the one where he accuses you of manipulating peoples words and choosing only half a sentence to make them look scum! You look over all the stuff and choose the evidence which makes a subjective case against your scum target... Also when people respond you ignore there answers and just carry on accusing without taking into account what they had to say.

Honestly, if you read what I said from a mutual, objective basis i think you would clearly see im town, however you ignore that and look at all the posts for there scuminess and might find one sentence in a long post but because of that one sentence im completely scum! Its subjective!

[Gen_Wolf]

@Thor: Fixed. Somehow I read a vote from Quilford and type it as Gen_wolf. Derp.

@Haylen:

I'll bump the deadline back to the 22nd.

Thanks Flame

[Gen_Wolf]

- In the meantime I took a hard look at the Haylen/Thor cases that came up but neither swayed me. Analyzing Thor's posts also helped me conclude he is town, which in turn makes me trust his read on Gen more as well.

Ok, so my question is: So you trust Thor's read on me as scum, what happens when the flip comes and I turn out to be town? Does that mean Thor is no longer town or he just made a mistake? You see, you've all accused me of sheeping Ozzie, however you have sheeped Thor quite a lot through this second day! What would your response to that statement be?

[Gen_Wolf]

Ok, so my question is: So you trust Thor's read on me as scum, what happens when the flip comes and I turn out to be town? Does that mean Thor is no longer town or he just made a mistake? You see, you've all accused me of sheeping Ozzie, however you have sheeped Thor quite a lot through this second day! What would your response to that statement be?

Eh.. I haven't "sheeped Thor quite a lot through this second day." I only sheeped Thor by placing a vote on you. But, I immediately did my own review of the original posts and conducted my own analysisof you.

My thoughts on whether Haylen or Thor is scum are MY thoughts. I'm not parroting anyone. When I analyzed the debate between Thor and Effortless, I didn't read their posts and decide what I thought. I painstakingly went back to the original sources to make sure each side was accurately portraying the past and reached my own conclusions, as I posted in detail. Haylen, same thing.

So, no...

If you end up getting lynched and flip town, it doesn't mean that Thor is automatically scum as wrong == scum. But of course I would go and look carefully at past interactions based on that information and try to figure out if scum was on the wagon and, if so, who.

It was a simple yes/no question.... would you or would you not blame Thor?

Anyways, a point I want to bring up... Say, one of the scum is a replacement(or both) which is probable... am i not mistaken in saying that scum can only contact each other during night phase so due to the recent amount of replacements and the potential for one of them atleast being scum... is it right in saying that they potnetially havent communicated thus meaning they arn't necessarily on the same page? Does this influence much at all?

[Gen_Wolf]

Are you scum racerman?

[Gen_Wolf]

But seriously, what areyour thoughts onhow Daybid and Saldyn played before you?

[Gen_Wolf]

Deadline is lurking! We need activity people!

[Gen_Wolf]

Gen_Wolf, how old are you? On a scale of 1 to 10, how mature would you say you are? I ask because I think it would help me work out your alignment.

Thor is scum and townie looking lunita is a blind sheep and its very upsetting to see her being led astray.

Haylen looks like she's lurking...

Haha well im 18 and by the sounds of it you doing think im very mature! To be honest I think I am, however, i struggle to take a lot of things seriously so there is a difference! I also get frustrated easily!

[Gen_Wolf]

My thoughts on the racerman issue are:

Are they not more likely to be town than scum purely based on the fact that if it was a scum role the replacements would be more likely to work at making time to play rather than asking for a replacement? It is a little bit of a risk but lets be honest it is more exciting to be scum that townie!

Is this bad logic? Am i being stupid?

I do realize it is a little bit of a risk, but it could be more harmful to town if we vote another townie off rather than wait for a replacement who will actually contribute to the game and then we can get a proper read?

Thoughts?

[Gen_Wolf]

Gen_Wolf, how old are you? On a scale of 1 to 10, how mature would you say you are? I ask because I think it would help me work out your alignment.

Thor is scum and townie looking lunita is a blind sheep and its very upsetting to see her being led astray.

Haylen looks like she's lurking...

Haha well im 18 and by the sounds of it you dont think im very mature! To be honest I think I am, however, i struggle to take a lot of things seriously so there is a difference! I also get frustrated easily!

EBWOP

[Gen_Wolf]

Shadow, why the vote on Thor?

Also, what do you think of the other players? A brief summary of your thoughts maybe?

[Gen_Wolf]

I disagree with your logic, but have no functional ground to stand on with the case as you make it. I still strongly advocate a Wolf lynch over me. He is actually scummy.

You see, this makes me laugh, because your so sure of yourself because of your ego that when I turn out scum i guarantee it will be my fault and not yours...

Anyways, Lunita, you contradicted yourself in the same sentence, I personally feel your judgement has been clouded by Thor, im not saying everything and i'm sure you did find something that look scum against me however I think you over thought it purely because Thor was on the Wolf wagon...

Anyways,

Unvote: Vote: ShadowJetX

Reasoning: Well, I dont want to be lynched because i'm town, but if Shadow flips town i'm most likely the next to be lynched so I have nothing to lose.

Also, if Shadow flips scum it will prove my innocence and save my life so that is what I have to gain...

[Gen_Wolf]

I disagree with your logic, but have no functional ground to stand on with the case as you make it. I still strongly advocate a Wolf lynch over me. He is actually scummy.

You see, this makes me laugh, because your so sure of yourself because of your ego that when I turn out TOWN i guarantee it will be my fault and not yours...

Anyways, Lunita, you contradicted yourself in the same sentence, I personally feel your judgement has been clouded by Thor, im not saying everything and i'm sure you did find something that look scum against me however I think you over thought it purely because Thor was on the Wolf wagon...

Anyways,

Unvote: Vote: ShadowJetX

Reasoning: Well, I dont want to be lynched because i'm town, but if Shadow flips town i'm most likely the next to be lynched so I have nothing to lose.

Also, if Shadow flips scum it will prove my innocence and save my life so that is what I have to gain...

EBWOP... was thinking because you just called me scum might look super dodge but was an honest typo

[Gen_Wolf]

I think a no lynch is out of the question now, if Haylen is telling the truth then all that will happen is we will no lynch and Haylen or Poro will be lynched meaning we are in the same predicament tomorrow?

[Gen_Wolf]

Well, I was uncertain of a no lynch but I see from Lunita's post on a no lynch...

Anyways, if Haylen turns out to be truthful then my next vote will be Lunita, purely based on the fact that Thor is still accusing Quil and I and if he infact turns out to be scum the last person he would accuse is his scum partner and the only one not to be mentioned out of the 3 uninvestigated.

But ill let today play out and see how that goes and then I will no lynch!

[Gen_Wolf]

I would like more info, lets see what happens tonight and go from there...

I think if Thor turns out to be scum and Haylen is telling the truth! I don't like lunita she is trying to hard to be town in my opinion!

Vote: No Lynch

[Gen_Wolf]

well Haylen was telling the truth!

Vote: Thor

[Gen_Wolf]

Question is who is the second:
Quil or Lunita?

[Gen_Wolf]

My gut wants to vote Quilford for allowing Thor to hammer and cut the day short before we could discuss things with Poro. But, at this point, since it's LYLO, I am going to take a step back and do some reading on Thor/Gen and Thor/Quil.

That mouse was really, really cute and made me want to forgive Thor... until I remembered he was trying to savagely murder all of us...AGAIN!

I feel exactly the same and I want to lynch Quil because gut is telling me he is scum but then also just the whole hammer and his play in the last 2 days has been suspicious!

However saying that, Lunita, I had a run in with Travis on Day 1 and seeing as you took his place that makes me a tiny bit suspicious but also the fact that you and Thor wanted to hammer me on Day 2, when I blatently tried to point out his scuminess you disagreed which also makes me question your township?

[Gen_Wolf]

ah off to work now but got the evening off, will do a nice long post then! Lunita, will answer your questions later!

@ Quil 87% of me thinks your 66.66% is made up???

[Gen_Wolf]

Post tomorrow. For now, sleep.

Welcome, Quilford!

I hope you got a good night sleep and look forward to hearing what you have to say.

谢谢！

Top suspect after reading through: Gen_Wolf. Quote wall incoming.

Also if I was working with Saldyn, which I am not, dont you think its a little to early to be defending him?

'which I am not' indicates defence mode is firmly switched on; Gen's certainly not going to say 'which I am'.

The too early to be defending question is WIFOM, and the use of a rhetorical question instead of a statement deflects pressure.

I hope saldyn is innocent then,

Why? Because it will make you look good? Explain please.

If saldyn is guilty, I propose to hang Gen_Wolf next, in that he is also a mafia member. If saldyn is innocent, I propose we do not hang Gen_Wolf in the next day phase

The simple answer is yes, if Saldyn is innocent then according to TravisB logic I am innocent.

There's no logic in what Travis has said.

Thomith, I wasn't trying to hide behind a town person, i was actually trying to prove to TravisB how his logic wasn't correct and that it wouldn't work out. I've got nothing to hide, and there's no need for me to hide behind someone.

Not seeing how Gen is "proving TravisB's logic incorrect" in the above post at tall.

Lastly, I believe TravisB to be scum, he was very quick to jump into the action, with his first post trying to get us to lynch someone, there was no thought process behind it and was merely just going for it with no worries, which leads me to believe that he didn't mind who he killed as the result would of benefited him - making him scum

I urge you all to join me in this effort

Vote: TravisB

This is the post of Travis' Gen is referring to:

vote

:saldyn

I see early signs of collusion with saldyn and Gen_Wolf. With little explanation, Gen_Wolf came to the protection of saldyn from Effortless' vote. I'm curious to see how these two act in the future. For now, my vote is for saldyn. I urge everyone to join me in this effort. If saldyn is guilty, I propose to hang Gen_Wolf next, in that he is also a mafia member. If saldyn is innocent, I propose we do not hang Gen_Wolf in the next day phase.

Travis displays a clear thought process in this post - he spells it out for us! - , and asking people to "join you in this effort" is not a scumtell, after all you want to lynch your scumreads, right?

If i could add my 2 cents in here, I personally feel Effortless answered his questions well, and I know you are all going to think im defending him because he defended me, as was pointed out earlier by someone... So right now i struggle to see Effortless as scum and I see the point he was trying to get across I however feel he is wrong.

Gen's pre-empting in the first sentence is scummy.

As for Thomith, i've been watching you closely since the beginning! You've been very active but your very quick to accuse people for the smallest things, your also very quick to change votes and jump from one person to the next! You've also been asking all the questions and attacking everyone which is very scum like i feel... Earlier you stated:

I want to lynch you

Yet now your the one withdrawing your vote because "He is to close to being lynched" you had a very quick change of mind for someone who was sure of there decision???

'I want to lynch you' does not mean you are sure of your decision. Town are almost never sure of their decision - chances are, if you notice someone being consistent about their reads over the course of the game, they are scum. I learned this the hard way in Double-Dip Mafia (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17851, if you're interested).

while I appreciate tomith's defense, the amount that tomith and effortless have been directly arguing with each other, and almost only each other, makes me wonder if they are purposefully trying to separate themselves from one another..?

QFT

I have been thinking that as well, I was going to give it a bit of time and see how much longer it would of gone on for, but I have been noticing it too... Its very suspicious that so early on you could be having such a go at each other...

No, it's not suspicious. It's only suspicious if they're attacking each other for petty or otherwise weak reasons - that's scum distancing.

As for Thomith, it doesnt say much for your credibility the fact your

The "i want to lynch you" was not legit

Does that mean we cant trust anything else you have said up to this point as this is clearly a false threat and could mean that anything else you have said is also not true??? Also why would he think your questions arn't important, is it because you two are scum trying to make each other look innocent???

Very suspicious Mr Thomith!!!!!

This is just poorly veiled exaggeration. 'could mean', 'is it', 'does that mean' are all hallmarks of scum making a potentially controversial attack, as they give wriggling space.

Firstly:
I feel like your almost pleading for us to believe you however you saying (below) doesn't make you look very good.

If you were to lynch me i wouldn't blame you as i definately made a mistake with the gambit/lie i pulled, however i promise you everything else i have said was legit other than the gambit.

The whole reason for LAL(Lynch all Liars) is because you have lied and you saying 'i promise everything else is true' is hard to believe when you lied to us once before, however you did admit the lie but I feel your opinion and thoughts aren't going to make a huge impact on my decision as I dont know if I will be able to trust it until you can build up your credibility again! I feel this is fair...

The wavering, I'll-give-you-a-second-chance tone is equivalent to fencesitting.

UNVOTE

As guilty as i still think Travis is, I will change my vote just to get the game going...

VOTE: Hazard

I believe this is

L:1

Travis is guilty? Whaaat? Weren't you just going after Thomith?

@genwolf: do you think travis is scummy because he is lurking? or are there other reasons?

I see early signs of collusion with saldyn and Gen_Wolf. With little explanation, Gen_Wolf came to the protection of saldyn from Effortless' vote. I'm curious to see how these two act in the future. For now, my vote is for saldyn. I urge everyone to join me in this effort. If saldyn is guilty, I propose to hang Gen_Wolf next, in that he is also a mafia member. If saldyn is innocent, I propose we do not hang Gen_Wolf in the next day phase.

That was the main thing that got my suspicion going, but to behonest since then he hasn't done much, which in its self could be considered suspicious! So in fairness there isnt much against him so I will unvote but IGMEOY Travis!

Unvote

The unvote is hasty and Gen's jittery tone in this post 'That was the main thing that got my suspicion going, but to behonest since then he hasn't done much, which in its self could be considered suspicious! So in fairness there isnt much against him so I will unvote but IGMEOY Travis!' is fencesitting. Wasn't Gen just voting Thomith anyway?

Sorry i been a little quite, very busy weekend but as stated usually busy most weekends!

Anyways, my thoughts on what i've just seen...

Lizk seems to just be following the bandwagon and suspects everyone else the majority suspect, could be sheepish (I'm very certain someone made this observation already) or could be scum, will be watching you, however you have made some valid points in the last few posts!

Thomith, you seem to be asking a lot of questions! Maybe just contribute a little and let the questions pose themselves for a while, want to get your perspective!

@Daybid, im guessing at some point you will/already have read through the game as far as we are now! what are your thoughts on it?

More fencesitting; asking questions isn't a scumtell unless you don't follow up on them.

@Effortless I guess you''ve got me figured out.

If this is sarcasm it's not read very well over the internet. Due to not knowing, I'm going to take it as truth.

Vote Hazard

Wondering whether Hazard is being sarcastic or openly admitting to being scum. Seriously?

For me, weather its a joke or reverse psychology on town, I agree with effortless and find this completely unhelpful! Personally for this stupid comment I think it's just beneficial to get rid of Hazard... He's very mixed up in all of this and I know a few people have there suspicions but I really thing he is scum trying to be clever! For trying to be such a smartarse:

UNVOTE: VOTE: HAZARD

Terrible reasoning for a Hazard vote - "being a smartarse"? "Completely unhelpful" is typical Mafia hyperbole. And it seems Gen is spinning effortless' comment the wrong way here.

You were asked to provide evidence and yet you didn't. Why is this?

i have been most of the game and the reactions i get out of people usually helps confirm their allignment

Thomith, thats a load of fluff! The question was "Why is this?" so your answer should be a long the lines of "I didn't provide evidence because I was lazy" not that you have done it for everything else so this one time your allowed to get away with it!

However, I think the answer is "I had no evidence and I was making false accusations because I am scum" your always having a go at people for avoiding questions when you have been doing it a whole lot!

I also thought that either Thomith or Lizk was scummy but didn't know which one! After re-reading i'm starting to suspect you Thomith and depending on how many votes you have I will be voting for you (Just need to check quickly)

It's not fluff. And I keep twitching every time Gen does one of his odd alignment thingies (e.g. 'because I am scum' above), it comes off as trying too hard.

The other is effortless, and although he has answered questions well recently, we did suspect him on day 1 and he was close to a hammer! Maybe we were right first time round?

vote: effortless

'Effortless has answered questions well recently buuuut we suspected him on Day 1! He's scum!'

I encourage everyone to post their thoughts even if it's just something like: "I haven't really picked up anything yet," or "I'm really confused". FOS anyone who's suspicious, or at least whoever is most suspicious.

As far as I can see, we had discussions about Gen_Wolf, me, Thomith and Hazard (plus liz but no one other than me seem to have taken that seriously).

I mean, I'd really, really like to hear from the lurkers (Heylen especially) but there's no reason why we can't have a discussion while we're waiting for them.

This is scum to me, the way he is trying really hard to draw attention off himself by saying that people had discussed him and he was safe! It's so unnecessary but it is something you would do if you had something to hide, what could that be... O wait he is SCUM!!!!

How is effortless trying really hard to draw attention off himself. Speaking of unnecessary, look at your last five words.

Well reading through, to answer Lunita, the basic answer was because I was unsure of who was scum at the time but to answer in detail:

- Although he never mentions any suspicion of Hazard (Thor), he votes Hazard (Thor) on August 10 and puts him at L-1 "to get the game going" and switches back to Travis when questioned on placing someone at L-1
[*Though I don't think this is a scumtell in this case]

This is how it shows. At the time i had no suspicions of Hazard, yet the game had slowed up, posting was at an almost stand still and to try bring the game to life I put Hazard on L1, when Travis made a comment, being the newb i am as it is my first game, i got scared of doing something wrong and took my vote off... In hind sight I should of left that vote on and waited for Hazard to respond, however also in hindsight, scum might of dropped the hammer on him to get a lynch so still not sure if that was good or bad?

Votes Daybid Aug. 14, next day unvotes saying though Daybid was "very suspicious" but now thinks he's town. Says he suspicious of effortless and questions why effortless thinks Thomith isn't town.

And I don't see how this is a bad thing? I questioned effortless as to why he thought a player was non town and guess what, that player was town. Secondly, I still think effortless is scum as i did at that time?

Lastly, yes i did vote Thomith, but so did 4 other people and i did vote Thomith because in those 4 days between my votes my judgement had been swayed!

Yes, I voted a lot, but I voted when I thought something of a person, Thor makes it sound worse than it is! I voted days apart after I had a reason to vote! Lunita, I feel you don't believe i'm scum but have been talked into it by Thor as a lot of you will most likely be! And like I said before, it's not that me that will lose out it is the town.

I've done nothing but probe on day 1 asking questions trying to get the scum to stand out, i put L1 pressure votes on, I asked questions, I suspected people and i actively posted... On day 2, Thor rocks up and ive been defending since... And i'm not going to anymore, I'm doing what I was before!

So

@Effortless: What was the question, sorry I must of missed it?

@Thor, your new to the game yet your posting the most and you could say "almost taken charge of the scumhunt" don't you think this is a little bold being a new player? Also, starting bandwagon on someone who will turn up town (AKA me) will only be detrimental to you but also the town! So think before you act!

@Everyone else, what are your current thoughts on how the game is progressing, also what do you think of Thor's play?

Contains a very odd change in tone when talking to Lunita; sounds pleading -- and would be, considering he's tied for largest wagon.

I absolutley 100% agree with ozzia above! Effortless is pushing so hard for everyone else being scum that it now looks so blatently obvious he is the scum! I also think lizk is a townie!

Also, ran out of cap on my computer so will be using my phone until I get my internet back but I will post my thoughts but will be a little tricky to quote and vote!

So for now: fos: effortless!

Now you called me a sheep, IF YOU READ THE SECOND LINE (because we have discussed this already, you don't like too read all of the post you like reading just one little incy line but dontworry i bolded it for you to make it that much easier

Also, ran out of cap on my computer so will be using my phone until I get my internet back but I will post my thoughts but will be a little tricky to quote and vote!

O and before you ask, No, i never got around to quoting my evidence on the effortless case! But if you reallly reallllly want me to, don't worry I will do it!

Gen voted Thomith for not procuring evidence when Haylen asked him to, if I remember correctly.

VOTE: Gen_Wolf (L-1)

Its your second post of the whole game and you accuse me like someone who has been playing the whole game, you came straight in and jumped straight on the Thor bandwagon, the reason you both could get away with it is because you were both new so no one could put it down as you working togethor! Your blatently the second scum member here! Personally I want to hear what you have to say but you have a lot of talking to do! Good luck!

[Gen_Wolf]

I feel this game is stagnating badly because of the replacements flying around and I think nothing would be more useful than a flip at the moment.

Pushing for a random flip, your trying to get rid of a player! You don't care who, thats proper scum!

[Gen_Wolf]

I feel this game is stagnating badly because of the replacements flying around and I think nothing would be more useful than a flip at the moment.

Pushing for a random flip, your trying to get rid of a player! You don't care who, thats proper scum!

I was NOT pushing for a random flip. I had just posted two cases on two players and the game was moving as slowly as a glacier.

But you were pushing for a flip?

[Gen_Wolf]

Its your second post of the whole game and you accuse me like someone who has been playing the whole game,

So what?

So, its your second post of the game, you see your scum buddy Thor pushing for Wolf to lynch, you then "as a new player" agree with him and as soon as you see its going to look obvious when I flip town and one of will be lynched you changed to Haylen "Cop" and start pushing for a lunch on her!

the reason you both could get away with it is because you were both new so no one could put it down as you working togethor!

That's BS. So what if we were both new?
If your both new it doesn't look suspicious if you both accuse the same player!

Your blatently the second scum member here! Personally I want to hear what you have to say but you have a lot of talking to do! Good luck!

When I posted my original big post on you, why didn't you say all this then?


How did I blatently become the second scum member after

Because I didn't think you were scum, and if you turn out to be town then you just played the game badly!

Anyways, if Haylen turns out to be truthful then my next vote will be Lunita, purely based on the fact that Thor is still accusing Quil and I and if he infact turns out to be scum the last person he would accuse is his scum partner and the only one not to be mentioned out of the 3 uninvestigated.

I don't like lunita she is trying to hard to be town in my opinion!

So Lunita might be scum.

Scum killed Haylen after she said this.

Ill look into this!

[Gen_Wolf]

@QUil

Your not convinvcing, your just blagging the expected answer, I could of told you that you would of said that before you even posted? Atleast try, because all you are doing is digging your hole deeper!

@Lunita

Sorry to hear, know that feeling i've had a rough few days so only able to post before and after work! But when you can get it to me! Thanks

[Gen_Wolf]

Ahhh i hate this position! Ok, well here it goes the hammer, if i get this wrong im super sorry to everyone else and will retire early from my Mafiascum career!

I honestly think its you, if its not then I just lost it for us :/

Vote: Quilford

[Gen_Wolf]

Thor, you bastard trying to lynch me!

The thing that did it for me was Thor and Lunita on Day 2 when they tried to lynch me, it was way to obvious for them to be scum buddies so based on that relationship and the quick hammer from Quil on Poro made me think Lunita was Townie!

Was a good first game, thanks all! hope to see you around soon!