Newbie 1143 - Game Over

[Thomith]

/confirm
Hello i am one of your (not so) friendly SE's. If the IC is away or i see a question that i think i can answer i will answer for you. (although i know less than the IC)

[Thomith]

@Mod- do we start with 7/9 confirmations or the full 9/9?

[Thomith]

VOTE: Ozzie72 for being at the top of the list.

[Thomith]

vote

:saldyn

I see early signs of collusion with saldyn and Gen_Wolf. With little explanation, Gen_Wolf came to the protection of saldyn from Effortless' vote. I'm curious to see how these two act in the future. For now, my vote is for saldyn. I urge everyone to join me in this effort. If saldyn is guilty, I propose to hang Gen_Wolf next, in that he is also a mafia member. If saldyn is innocent, I propose we do not hang Gen_Wolf in the next day phase.

You are calling both scum already? We have 3 weeks and you want to set up lynches for day 1 and 2? Explain how this helps us this early in the game and how this is solid so early in the game.

[Thomith]

Haylens questions (hazards sort of tie in to the last question).
1. Is there any time coming up where we can expect you to not be very active?

Well i am on a semi V/LA right now but it is ending very soon.

2. Have you familiarized yourself with Mafia Discussion and the Wiki?

I did about a week ago.

3. Have you read at least one completed game on site?

I read The Newbie game "Trick or Treat" back the first day i joined the site and i usually re-read all completed games i was in after it is over from a nuetral perspective to try and improve my play from a non town or scum point of view.

4. What is your experience level? How many games have you played?

I would say i am fairly experienced and started playing mafia competetively on another site about 2-3 years ago. On site i have played 6 games to completion 2 ongoing and 2 coming up. (one is starting tommurrow earliest)

[Thomith]

I hope saldyn is innocent then,

Why? Because it will make you look good? Explain please.

[Thomith]

The simple answer is yes, if Saldyn is innocent then according to TravisB logic I am innocent.

You really should try to prove yourself innocent with cases not by other people being innocent.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Gen
Not a random vote.

[Thomith]

I dont think i really made it clear. My vote isn't random because i believe Gen is starting to show signs of hiding behind town players to look innocent.

oh and also.

Eek! I didn't even think about it being that long. I played mafia once on another forum (we played one or two games), and those phases were about 24 hours long, so I'm used to jumping into the action. If I had known that, I would not have been so quick with my vote, although I do stand behind it. I started out this way to at least add some order to the RVS.

Quick question, did you read the rules?

8) Each game day will have

three-week deadlines

as I see fit. Under special circumstances, a deadline extension may be awarded. For instance, I will extend the deadline if we need a replacement two days before deadline.

[Thomith]

Effortless, id like to see some reasoning behind that vote other thna "Most suspicious"

^ This

Thomith, I wasn't trying to hide behind a town person,

I hope saldyn is innocent then,

Why? Because it will make you look good? Explain please.

If saldyn is guilty, I propose to hang Gen_Wolf next, in that he is also a mafia member. If saldyn is innocent, I propose we do not hang Gen_Wolf in the next day phase

The simple answer is yes

, if Saldyn is innocent then according to TravisB logic I am innocent.

Looks like you were to me.

there are a few people that arn't posting and keeping quite! Why?

Maybe because they couldn't post yet? Don't try to put the pressure i am putting on you to someone else, because this is what you seem to be doing. Also imo Lurking is not a scumtell in most cases but active lurking is (active lurking= trying to look active when really your posts have no content)

[Thomith]

Ozzie seemed to have done the same thing but you only call one person out for it?

[Thomith]

Ozzie seemed to have done the same thing but you only call one person out for it?

He didn't do exactly the same and lizk's version is more suspicious. In any case I don't see the point in focusing more than one person at a time.

Focusing on one person could let their partner slip away if they are scum or scum to slip away if they are town. So focusing on one player souly could let scum slip by unnoticed.

[Thomith]

I feel like Gen_Wolf is getting bandwagonned

I am not bandwagoning him, I am putting pressure on him so he has to answer my questions and explain his previous answers. If he gets bandwagoned then i will unvote as it is only page 3.

[Thomith]

Oh look sal only voted is he scum now?
Reason for this post- Even after sal only voted you said nothing about it but you didnt take your vote off.

UNVOTE: VOTE: effortless 3 people have done what you are voting lizk but yet you only call lizk out for it.

[Thomith]

same thing can be said for sal (sort of ozzie but he has seemed to be trying to be generating discussion)

[Thomith]

I'm accusing lizk because I feel like she might actually be a good candidate to lynch, depending on her answers.

You can't call one person out for something and label them scum when others did the same thing. This heightens my suspicions of you.

Also @ above the first few pages of votes are basically just throwing accusations around and trying to find things that are scummy to make people slip up from too much pressure.

[Thomith]

I'm accusing lizk because I feel like she might actually be a good candidate to lynch, depending on her answers.

You can't call one person out for something and label them scum when others did the same thing. This heightens my suspicions of you.

Also @

ozzie

the first few pages of votes are basically just throwing accusations around and trying to find things that are scummy to make people slip up from too much pressure.

EBWOP

[Thomith]

You don't get it You can't label one person scum for something but let somebody slip past without calling them scummy. I don't buy this as legit, i want to lynch you.

[Thomith]

the difference is slight, ozzie made one line more but you dont call him out, and sal only posted a vote but you called neither out.

I never found out if you disagreed with my reasoning or just missed it.

Guess.

[Thomith]

lizk's post fits perfectly to someone who's actively trying to avoid attention.

Guess what lizk did exactly what you did in your first 2 posts, so are you calling yourself scummy for doing what lizk did now? and before you say you didn't i will show it to you.

Your first post was a random vote and your second was answering questions

lizk's first post was a random vote and answering questions.

You did the same thing.

[Thomith]

Even if I did the same I obviously couldn't be doing it to avoid attention.

Ok you do the same thing as someone who you are calling out scum for their first post but you did the exact same thing in your first posts. Now explain how that isn't "trying to avoid attention" if you did the same thing as lizk.

[Thomith]

liz's second post was answering the questions YOU asked. So answering your questions is avoiding attention?
UNVOTE: for now because i didn't relise effortless was L-2 already. IGMEOY though.

[Thomith]

No i don't. She did what most others did in her first post and answered questions directed at her in her second.

[Thomith]

The reason why i unvoted was because i relised that a lynch on page 4 is too early. Also me jumping from one person to the next is me trying to put pressure on things i see scummy, i guess i could have done it a different way but i didn't. Also you would be suprised how many of the "smallest things" are usually what scum do.
I do feel that liz could have explained the vote better and i would like to see the reasoning. Feel free to question me on anything else.

[Thomith]

I wasn't defending you if it seemed like it, i was attacking effortless. I already explained why i switched, the "wagon" which was originally for me to build pressure on effortless starting going too fast which i did not really want. The "i want to lynch you" was not legit, it was to try to put pressure on effortless so they would answer the questions and not ignore them because not thinking they were important.

[Thomith]

Also why would he think your questions arn't important, is it because you two are scum trying to make each other look innocent???

People usually ignore questions to them if they find them not threatening, by saying "i want to lynch you" it secured in my mind that the questions and pressure would be answered.

Also calling both scum before a flip is generally anti-town, also it was more of a gambit than a lie but go ahead and ignore everything else i said, it wont help town in the long run.
ATM my gut is telling me that gen is (very) newbtown but the face that gen is tunneling on 2 "partners" on page 4 (and earlier) isn't usually what town do.

[Thomith]

Thomith to withdraw his vote because his partner in crime was close to being voted out and it worried him!

You are taking everything i do and putting in to "why scum would do it" but you never look at anything i do form "why town would do it" I unvoted because effortless was L-2 very early on in the game which doesn't help town at all.

[Thomith]

Ok the reason why i said "i want to lynch you" was to put pressure on effortless, scum usually slip under pressure and i wanted to put as much pressure on effortless as possible to see if effortless slipped. I unvoted because i relised the wagonw as growing to fast and was on L-2 too early in the game.

Think of it as OMGUS if you want but i feel you are reaching right now. VOTE: Hazard Agreeing with what gen said and imo not adding anything to the arguements at hand, and i feel your vote on me is trying too hard for a mislynch.

[Thomith]

Agreeing with what gen said and not adding any arguements of your own*

[Thomith]

The wagon grew too quickly and i had to unvote before i could find much of use so i found basically nothing but i dont think effortless is a good lynch for today. I admit lying was a stupid thing to do but it worked to get some pressure on, if you want to lynch me on it then i question your motives for lynching me on one mistake.

[Thomith]

If you were to lynch me i wouldn't blame you as i definately made a mistake with the gambit/lie i pulled, however i promise you everything else i have said was legit other than the gambit. from experience if the votes are divided like they were then people dont tend to feel much pressure from votes which is why i wanted to put more pressure on.

[Thomith]

But lynching me for one thing definately wouldn't be a pro town thing to do.

[Thomith]

it being your sudden change of heart and lack of pressure on effortless

I already explained it and can't explain it differently, i unvoted because the wagon was growing too quickly for early game, because i had to unvote i didn't get much information other than i don't think effortless is a good lynch today.

which almost sounds like something a newb would me

Not only newbs make mistakes >.>,and how is my mistake a "small thing" when it

could

have resulted in a quick L-1 because the wagon grew to quickly.

[Thomith]

it being your sudden change of heart and lack of pressure on effortless

I already explained it and can't explain it differently, i unvoted because the wagon was growing too quickly for early game, because i had to unvote i didn't get much information other than i don't think effortless is a good lynch today.

I have been swayed by some of the arguments

Are you going to add any arguements of your own? Any other reasons as to why you are voting me?

which almost sounds like something a newb would me

Not only newbs make mistakes >.>,and how is my mistake a "small thing" when it could have resulted in a quick L-1 because the wagon grew to quickly.

(quote tag fix)

[Thomith]

Also if you guys suspect me because of one thing i suggest you rethink your suspicions, voting someone on one thing hardly ever catches scum.

[Thomith]

Also i still don't know what else i can explain about what i did. I explained all that i could. I feel some of you guys are reaching for a lynch right now.
Gen seems newbtownie that suspects me, liz seems like a semi sheep but a townie it is just hazard and sal jumping on me with no case of their own that hasn't already been suspected, however at this time i don't know if they are the scumteam.

FOS: Hazard and Sal

[Thomith]

What don't you guys get about i was trying to pressure, some games questions that could catch scum are ignored because there was no pressure on them. What the heck do i need to do to prove that this is what i was doing >.>

[Thomith]

sheep means following the crowd. i listed you as a semi sheep because you didnt vote.

[Thomith]

because it implies one person is more important than the town.

i wasn't implying that. I was saying lynching me for one thing is an anti town thing to do, not lynching me was an anti town thing to do.

[Thomith]

I too want to hear more from Travis as he has yet to add something of value to this game.

[Thomith]

If Travis doesn't post soon then he will get prodded anyway. I don't find lurking as scummy as active lurking though i still want to hear from him.

[Thomith]

also @ sal when you come back i want you to post every reason as to why you think i am scummy and they have to be at least 3/4 of your own points.
Same at hazard (3/4 of your own points as to why you think i am scum)

[Thomith]

town wouldn't think about trying to find the other scum they should just be happy with one

What i meant by it is that you shouldn't pressure one person only, of course you can't call scumteams out before one has flipped but only pressuring one person could leave you with little information the next day.

[Thomith]

'their partner bit' almost as though he knows the person Effortless is voting for is scum.

No it doesn't? It is saying that

IF

the person you are attacking is scum if you souly focus on what they do and completely miss what anyone else does then like i said before lets the partner slip through.

[Thomith]

UNVOTE: although i suspect him there is no way i am having a hammer on page 7 with i think over 2 weeks untill deadline.
but i still want an answer from hazard and travis to my questions.

i still having a feeling in my gut about tomith and effortless.

Think for a minute, would BOTH scum slip up over 2 weeks from deadline? I am not ruling out effortless as scum i am saying that i doubt both scum would slip up that early. (not saying they can't saying i find it unlikely)

for now VOTE: Ozzie explain every reason you voted for hazard and putting him at L-1 in detail.

And to make it clear for everyone that is going to go "OMG HE IS SCUM BECAUSE HE UNVOTED" i unvoted because L-1 right now is way to early. However if he doesn't start looking townie i will be voting him again.

[Thomith]

Oh i thought i asked hazard this question when i hadn't
Hazard why do you think it is appropriate to vote someone for one thing which other people had already said and then not adding anything else to the case on me.

[Thomith]

You unvoted for me to revote... ok then... i don't know how to take that but sure...
not re-voting or even thinking about it untill ozzie has answered my question though.

[Thomith]

sorry i thought you put him at L-1. UNVOTE: VOTE: Hazard as gen answered the question that was meant for him which i accidently asked to ozzie , and i find Hazard the most suspicious right now, however Travis and sal come in and post thoughts please.

[Thomith]

@genwolf: do you think travis is scummy because he is lurking? or are there other reasons?

anything else you want to add to the game? What do you think of recent events? what do you think of hazard getting L-1ed after only 7 days?

[Thomith]

We already answered that post before you posted it in our votes.

[Thomith]

So you still think i am scum because i stopped a potential quickhammer on you? also why do you still think i am scummy? over one thing?
Everyone makes mistakes and really voting someone over one mistake hardly ever leads to lynching scum, unless they screwed up majorly.

[Thomith]

"running the table,"

I FOS hazard fully and i am running the table? If anyone suspects you you normaly find them scummy, when you get suspected i would be very suprised if you didnt for a second think they were scummy.

[Thomith]

Again i say.
Lurking isn't scummy active lurking is.

[Thomith]

Sal if you come back why did you vote me as you have yet to explain why.

[Thomith]

Great for some reason reading back my read on hazard is just all over the shop, my gut is saying he is scum for trying to get a bandwagon going because of what I did to get information but my head is saying he is town trying to get information himself...
Usually my gut is right but in this game my read is so mixed i am unsure... My vote is staying on because my gut read is stronger than my head read although i really don't know at the moment.

[Thomith]

ok hazard i want to ask now, state every reason you voted for me, just so i can try to get my reads sorted on you.

[Thomith]

so hazard you are voting me for gut and Lying even after 8 pages? don't you find anyone else scummy?

[Thomith]

Ozzie apart from hazard do you find anyone else scummy?
(before you ask me the same question i don't find anyone as scummy as him but i feel the sal spot was quite scummy but it just got replaced into so we will see how the replacement plays out.)

[Thomith]

lizk do you still have a gut feeling that me and effortless are scum buddies? If so why? Also if so why are you not voting for either of us?

[Thomith]

So you not reading the thread is a mistake as well, does this make you as scummy as me as this is also one mistake you made. Also you think me putting pressure on someone is scummy? I said it before and i will say it as many times that i am called scummy for it, I was putting pressure on as scum usually make slips when they have pressure on them. Why am i scummy for doing this?

[Thomith]

Of course i switch my methods of pressuring because last time it caused in a possible mislynch. It is a mistake so i changed my methods, is that so scummy?

[Thomith]

Ok so you are basically saying anyone who makes a mistake is scum. Ok got it.

[Thomith]

Asking questions gets reactions out of people, thus giving us information, this helps town along so i will not stop doing it.

If you want my reads i have already stated afew posts ago. I feel hazard is scum that is reaching for a mislynch, the sal slot worries me a little but maybe daybid will stop that suspicion, also i was the person who said lizk was sheeping a bit, at this point in time i don't feel that it is a scumtell though.

[Thomith]

Haylen is V/LA don't expect anything from her untill monday but i too would like to hear more from her. Usually my questions reflect what i think and i am questioning people on my thoughts to help me make my mind up on them.

[Thomith]

This is bad logic above, you are wanting me to just give up and get lynched? This is never how i play and never how anyone should play no matter what allignment they are, giving up and just letting yourself get lynched hinders your faction as it lowers your factions numbers. Also everyone has the same chance of getting scum.
Newbie 1085 is the second game i played on site where both scum were newbies, meaning your "lynch all experienced players" could end up in many mislynches, however i am also not saying that the experienced players cannot be scum, i am saying it is bad to assume that at least one of us are.

[Thomith]

Thinking about it UNVOTE: VOTE: Daybid he is too quick to assume that at least one of the SE's and IC's are scum, I don't know for sure but i have a feeling this might be a newb scum attempt at getting rid of the experienced players first so he can't get caugh.

[Thomith]

Haylen voted you too but you only call me out for voting you? Explain why you did this. You don't know that i am not scum, we don't know anybody's allignment but we are trying to find out others allignments, i think you are scum, then you say "oh you think i am scum but how do we know you are not scum?" Instead of trying to defend yourself.

[Thomith]

Oh and also sal made 3 posts, so really you cannot say "sal didn't try to lynch anyone so that must mean i'm town" well we are talking about you not sal so either way this means nothing.

[Thomith]

See i don't want to be lynched because my lynch would be a mislynch thus hurting town, you say it would be hurting town if you got lynched because you are town so now you know my perspective and why i don't want to get lynched because i know that it would be a mislynch, and thus "solve nothing" as you would say.

[Thomith]

I want to hear what TravisB makes of the situation and if Hazard finds anyone other than me scummy.

[Thomith]

[quote="Hazard]I'd like to know exactly why you are voting Daybid, please.[/quote] I am voting daybid originally because he said "lynch all experienced players" as if he wanted to push us out and my vote stayed because he changed the subject a little.

however since he has been acting towny after it UNVOTE: and now i am utterly confused because both of you (day and hazard) have been acting town lately :/.

Also sorry if my posts are hard to catch up on, but i try not to tone done my play in newbie games, but if you want me to explain afew posts so they are more understandable then i will.

[Thomith]

VOTE: lizk
lizk instantly said "thomith and effortless are distancing from each other" and then even after 10 pages nothing has changed her thought of that, i think this is scum trying to setup lynches as she has seemingly only focused on us, she then says "oh you say you have completed games but you made a mistake which only newbs do" is just bleh, SE's and IC's make mistakes too, we are constantly learning like you and i don't understand how some newbies think we should be perfect.

She then seemingly goes on to sheep Hazard which i didn't find scummy at first because i had a feeling she would stop but she has seemingly continued to sheep Hazard, i think at least one of Hazard/lizk is scum, however i am thinking only one of them are, likely the latter.

[Thomith]

Daybid while it seems like lurkers are against the town lurking isn't a scum tell it is a null tell, it is only scummy if you post actively but add nothing to the game, which is called active lurking.

[Thomith]

I need to put my vote somewhere atm i'll switch it.

This sounds scummy to me, why would you think you have to vote? you only need to vote when YOU think you have found scum, not before.

[Thomith]

It wasn't you voting that was scummy it was scummy that you said you had to vote.

[Thomith]

oh look at the above you accuse daybid using MY reasoning and not using any reasoning of your own, this is what you have been seemingly doing all game, and no i am not omgusing you because OMGUS has no reasoning i have reasoning, and it seems you only focus on me and effortless untill someone says somebody else is scummy when you go "oh yeah your right that is very scummy" while adding no reasoning of your own.

[Thomith]

Ok if i am lynched which hopefully the town see's a mislynch you and hazard will be in the spotlight for leading the mislynch on me,you didn't vote me untill hazard made his case on me, and then you didn't even explain why you voted me. Also i change my vote as my reads change, see unlike you i focus on everyone not just afew people, scum's vote don't usually change alot as they only one someone mislynched.
I still feel one of hazard/lizk is scum and i think it is lizk. also i have 75 posts and you have 19, with more posts you are more likely to change your vote as you are posting more content which can change your reads, if i only had 19 posts then that is when you should accuse me of vote hopping as i would be doing it less than every 3 posts.

[Thomith]

Ok if i am lynched which hopefully the town see's

it is

a mislynch you and hazard will be in the spotlight for leading the mislynch on me

EBWOP

[Thomith]

Ok lynch me. Go ahead as i obviously can't get through to you all that i am town, but make sure you lynch lizk when i flip town.

[Thomith]

Also you suspected me without reason when you did, and voted me after hazard did and was using his reasons to "build your suspicion" on me. Sheeping to the max.

[Thomith]

You say we were bussing each other now think for a second do you really think scum would give themselves away so quickly?

[Thomith]

also you have been seemingly sheeping ever since as when i said daybid looked scummy you then suddenly said he was scummy too without adding any reasoning.

[Thomith]

I thought you would stop before, but you didn't and kept sheeping, without adding any reasons of your own when someone else says someone is scummy then you agree and use the same reasons.
When i flip town do you think effortless is scum?

[Thomith]

If you keep agreeing with people without adding reasons of your own you are sheeping and not adding anything to the game. Also way to completely ignore my question.

[Thomith]

Oh look you are avoiding questions now, answer the question stop avoiding it, or you prove my point that you are despertately trying to mislynch me, without even thinking about anything else but.

[Thomith]

At this point tomith is the most suspicious to me as well, but I'm not ready to vote yet

You say i am the most suspicious to you but don't add any points as to why.

[Thomith]

OK, forgetting for a second that you are being completely hypocritical because you are also avoiding questions, and being wildly hypothetical and saying that you are town, then my vote for day 2 would depend completely on how the rest of day 1 goes and the nk and the beginning of day 2. At this particular point, no, I wouldn't automatically vote effortless regardless of what you flipped.

But it seems your arguement on me is that i am scum because he is not but he is not scum if i am not, wow you're reach so badly.

[Thomith]

OK, forgetting for a second that you are being completely hypocritical because you are also avoiding questions, and being wildly hypothetical and saying that you are town, then my vote for day 2 would depend completely on how the rest of day 1 goes and the nk and the beginning of day 2. At this particular point, no, I wouldn't automatically vote effortless regardless of what you flipped.

But it seems your arguement on me is that i am scum because he is not but he is not scum if i am not, wow you're reach so badly.

Could you explain his reach a little better that's really confusing.

He is acting like because effortless is "town" then i must be scum but if i am town it doesn't make effortless scum, even though she said she suspected us both, but she is saying i can only be scum and effortless can only be town.
Also if we don't lynch lizk or hazard today i will take the lynch as it means it is likely that one of lizk/hazard is scum and giving you guys information from my flip, although that is the worse case situation that hopefully doesn't have to happen.

[Thomith]

Giving up doesn't help your faction, and saying what i did wasn't giving up, giving up is just going "i'm going to stop posting just lynch me" but i am not going to do that because giving up hinders the faction.

[Thomith]

I explained where you said i contradicted myself that it wasn't a contradiction.

[Thomith]

You say things such as

Also you would be suprised how many of the "smallest things" are usually what scum do.

but then you also say that lynching you for your one mistake would be so such a bad idea.When you were the one to say that we needed to pay attention to such those kinds of mistakes.

There is a big difference between your claimed mistake of lying about who you want to lynch, and my mistake of overlooking one, one-word post.

Contradiction galore. In the first post you infer my mistake was a "small mistake" but in the second you infer it is a "big mistake"

what is it lizk?

[Thomith]

No. Small mistakes are more likely scummy mistakes than big ones, you seemed to be infering that my mistake was small and so scummy by basically keeping saying that my mistake was scummy.

[Thomith]

So you think i am scummy for attacking everything i find scummy?

[Thomith]

For the record he just won a game as scum where he seemed pretty active. That's just based on post counts, I haven't read the thread and probably won't either. But I'm no longer giving him creds for activity.

If you are going to meta me do it properly. I have been way too active in every game i have been in apart from my very first game, being active is not a scumtell, especially if you haven't even meta'd me properly to use meta against me.

[Thomith]

Also town shouldn't be afraid of their vote unless their vote is the hammer. Then they should say they want to hammer then wait for a claim before hammering, and even then think about their vote before hammering.

[Thomith]

It is a mistake to clear me only from being active, as i am active as both town and scum, although i am alot more active as town than i am as scum.

[Thomith]

(which not enough of you are getting aboard on).

Why don't you prove it to people rather than going "not enough of you are voting vote please" which if you are town, you would prove to others that your suspect is town, not just say "lynch that guy"

Also travis, you are calling me scummy for attacking others? Which is me trying to find scum by attacking them, so basically you are calling me scummy for trying to find scum by attacking them, and by voting against me you are attacking me, and by the same logic lizk has attacked me and effortless, but you call me out for it?

[Thomith]

Which is me trying to find scum by attacking them,

Which is why i am attacking people, to get information and to find scum, i do it so much because i am constantly trying to get information out of people.

[Thomith]

So i am your only scum read, it kind of seems that after 14 pages you are only focusing on me being scum without looking at how anyone else can be scum, but making most of the players null reads.

[Thomith]

I am your only scum read, it is pretty obvious that you are souly focusing on me being scum to look at finding other scum.

[Thomith]

So focusing on one person only to find out they are going to flip town will help you find the scum in the game, oh wait you probably are scum, nevermind. Seriously though if lizk is town then hazard is most likely scum, i doubt they are both town and i also doubt they are both scum.

[Thomith]

It is obvious when i am your only scum read, how many times do i need to say this?

[Thomith]

Obviously because you are so stubborn. Don't you have a secondary FOS in case your first one is town? Or isnt that your standard

Scum

Play?

also here are my reads just for you (actually so town has something after my flip)

Town-
Daybid

No real reason other than gut here, as he hasn't contributed a massive amount to the game, but i don't see anything scummy from him other than the lynch experienced players thing, which seems like a newbie mistake

Gen

Seems to use his own thoughts rather than others, and seems confident in his own reads and i don't see anywhere where he has used someone elses points to get reads, although i could have missed something

Ozzie

Although he has sheeped a bit in his posts he does seem to use his own logic and seems like he uses others logic and expands on it to try to find scum which i don't see scum do all that often

Null-
Haylen

not realy posting much but when she does they seem to be of decent content, would definately like to hear more though.

effortless

hasn't done anything overly scummy, although i find him being a little afraid to vote weird, although i doubt he is scum he is a null read.

Travis

i find it weird he is saying my way of finding scum makes me scum, although there are scummier candidates in the form of lizk and hazard, null for now, although he is the scummiest of my null reads.

Scum-
lizk/hazard

I think at least one of this duo is scum, Hazard sticks out more than lizk though however it seems both of them only have me as a scum read and don't have a secondary option which to me i find generally anti-town

[Thomith]

You were asked to provide evidence and yet you didn't. Why is this?

i have been most of the game and the reactions i get out of people usually helps confirm their allignment

[Thomith]

Well of course i am more active when i am being voted because i want to prove you guys wrong, also if i was actually running the table i would have more actual suspicions than lizk and hazard.

Also i am L-1? who's the fourth vote?

[Thomith]

Ah gen did. So with me being L-1 i am going to say, people are suspecting me for running the table, which i explained above, and also for being too active which i explained above.
If you do lynch me all i ask is you take my reads into account. I will not claim untill someone not on my wagon asks me too, just before someone on my wagon asks.

[Thomith]

Oh so you suspect me because of Ozzie apparently trying to draw attention away from me, so you are suspecting me over what someone else did?

[Thomith]

Your point against me is i ignore what people say, which i do if i think what they say doesn't make them any less scummy, i was active in a previous game even though i am active in any game i am in, which you would have seen if you meta'd me properly, and because of what someone else did, which is a stupid reason to call someone else scummy because of what someone else said without a flip. If ozzie was flipped scum then i would understand it, but the thing is he isn't.

[Thomith]

I can see how but you are assuming that he is scum when you don't know his allignment, your point was "so you do it as town or scum so it is wrong to assume you are town from you being active" unless i missed something (missing does not mean ignoring before you call me out on that)

[Thomith]

I did which is why i stopped attacking her for it, of i hadn't acknowledged it i would have kept attacking her for sheeping.

[Thomith]

If i don't see something then of course i ignore it beause i didn't even see it in the first place, if i don't read the post properly and miss a point which i don't do on purpose then i can't do anything about that.
Also as someone says they want to hamemer me and lizk is urging people to hammer i am not going to get quicklynched with no claim.
If you lynch me you won't be losing a power role for i am a

Vanilla Townie

now if you do lynch me remember my reads at least, and for the love of god don't quicklynch one of my scum reads without discussion things first.

[Thomith]

the quoted doesn't prove me wrong, scum can and sometimes do say they suspect someone so they can say "oh i suspected them early so i wasn't sheeping" when they actually are going to sheep but need an excuse to.

[Thomith]

I'll be changing my FOS to a vote first thing on Monday.

If you have already decided no matter what you will be hammering me you give 48 hours max not 4 days, you just seem to be prolonging it even more, as town can't really focus on anything else while half of them suspect someone.

[Thomith]

Is it monday yet?

Someones pushy, too pushy for town imo.

[Thomith]

@ above. The average newbie game lasts for about a month, sometimes it can last longer sometimes they are shorter.

@lizk being pushy isn't a good thing if the person you are lynching is a mislynch.

[Thomith]

Wait we won?
Meh i semi lost interest when most of the original players got replaced. Although glad that i figured out 1 scum

[Thomith]

meh don't worry about it.
Everyone gets lynched early game sometime, this wont be the first time for me i am sure either.

[Thomith]

yeah i guess thor is right.
I was lynched for basically argueing with lizk/hazard and then vote hopping, although i dont really see why vote hopping is scummy if you dont vote hop every post.
I am a little annoyed that people found me scummy for being "too active" though but whatever.

[Thomith]

Mod wins! Town wins!

Yay everyone happy!