Newbie 1131 - Game over

[forehead7]

vote Legend of Mafia

Ima have a read of the rules and then come back with some questions

[forehead7]

I'm in the GMT timezone. Five hours infront of Eastern.

First game on here, I've played a few on the same site as Legend of Mafia(who's a complete dumbass btw) and a bunch on another site(View Askew, someone said Starbuck plays on here, she's from there as well)

I tend to go quiet when I'm mafia and get killed because of my quietness. When I'm village, I rarely get killed by the mafia. It tends to be the village who kill me because I end up putting my foot in my mouth.

[forehead7]

forehead7, you seem to have played with LOM before. What's your take on his behaviour right now? Scummy or innocent?

Pretty standard to be honest. He lacks common sense. In one of our games, he quoted someone and then changed what the person said to make that person look dirty, eventhough both of them were innocents.


This question will make me seem dirty but I feel I need to ask it, how do the mafia communicate off-thread? Is it a PM conversation with all of them in it or is there a private board for them?

[forehead7]

forehead: Nothing of this. It's a quicktopic on this side: http://www.quicktopic.com, given to them by the mod. Normally (Always in newbiegames) they are only allowed to talk in the night there.
Why do you need to know this?

Just curious. On the board that LOM and I play on it's a PM conversation that everyone's added to. On View Askew the game runner makes a Pro Board and then discussion ensues.

I know it'll make me seem dirty, like I'm trying to deflect attention as obviously the mafia would know but I was genuinely interested in which way this board uses.

[forehead7]

Forehead: If you know LoMs playstile and he is playing normal, is your vote random, or is there another reason?

There's no real reason, it's a sort of joke between internet "friends". Like if you were playing dodgeball and you go after your best friend as a show of superiority.

As for the links. The first one I played was http://theviewaskewboard.com/showthread.php?1377, this was Scott Pilgrim. I've played in every game since then and you can find all the games linked on the first post of this thread; http://theviewaskewboard.com/showthread ... Thread-v.2 (new games are at the bottom of the pile) That's the View Askew board.

On the same board that LOM and I play on, the first game I played in was: http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index ... afia-game/ and I have played in every since, the list of games is here; http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index ... ring-hole/(the newest games are at the top of the list on that thread)

[forehead7]

I agree with Demyx and Haoala that it is hasty to label forehead as town, it seems very much a case of WIFOM to me.

I also agree, that's why I put the first bit in. I just wanted to know the answer.

What does "WIFOM" mean?

[forehead7]

I don't really have any suspicions at the moment, I tend to work by voting patterns so the longer deadlines are favorable (for me). Bit too early for me to go after anybody with any real conviction.

[forehead7]

I've had a re-read of the thread. As such I'm going to

UNVOTE Legend of Mafia

Gingy is seeming pretty aloof (which is how I play as mafia). First of all he states that you can't lead while hunting mafia and then backs down as soon as he's called on it. Pretty standard if you're trying to avoid confrontation and attention. Then he can't provide links to the past mafia games, why not? If it was on this site then you'd be able to search for all your posts surely? Or on another site.
thus

vote Gingy

At this stage I don't think AndroidDream is dirty, if he's like me and is used to faster paced games then I can understand him wanting to speed the game up and it didn't strike me as overly dirty.

[forehead7]

Forehead, I thought Gingy was mainly from EpicMafia? Is it possible to link games from EpicMafia?

I have no idea, never been on the site. But I think not posting the links is questionable, maybe he doesn't want us to see his obvious mafia tells? Lets make him like this: (sorry, just wanted to use that emoticon)

[forehead7]

Do you think Gingy is purposefully trying to hide his past games?

Possibly, either that or he's just lazy(I can relate)

[forehead7]

Possibly, either that or he's just lazy(I can relate)

Which do you think is more likely?

At the moment I'm leaning towards him being scummy, I don't have the facts about where he played it but he does seem to be sitting on the sidelines, not really helping the town and his lack of posting is suspicious. He's not come back to defend himself as to why he hasn't/can't link his games. All of that seems suspect to me.

Lusting for blood much? I'm not quite sure how to take that one.

Nah, saw that emoticon and thought it was badass, like the Punisher skull and wanted to use it. I still believe that Gingy is the best lynch candidate, at least until he comes back on and defends himself a bit more(which would be anything at this stage)

I'm not sure that LOM will add anything more to the game tbh, he has never struck me as an astute player, no offence intended. I'm surprised, he usually posting lots of rubbish in the games I've played with him, "post whoring" we call it. I've only seen him be mafia once(in a game I hosted) and he got killed day 1, more for being himself than any scummy moves he may have made. Perhaps his change in style is due to him being mafia? Not sure though.

[forehead7]

He didn't unvote so it won't count.

Although I understand the apprehension over the policy lynch, but the thing is that LOM is usually an active poster and he has been on our home forum alot so he's not busy, he's posted 31 times in the last 24 hours there. So he's either deliberately being obtuse or is just not wanting to play.

He's been on, and unless he isn't reading the thread, then he's not posting useful info on purpose. Those are grounds for death, IMO. On day 1 people not being helpful should die, and LOM's being the most useless, IMO.

I'm still gonna keep my vote on Gingy just now though, as that's who I suspect as being mafia the most.

[forehead7]

I'm busy just now on a game I'm hosting elsewhere. Sorry, I am town though so don't waste a lynch on me.

You're co-hosting it. And you find the time to come on here and post useless things.

Hosting a game takes very little time, outwith the hour or so around the time of the deadline.

Very poor excuse.

unvote Gingy
vote Legend of Mafia

Just for the record, I still find Gingy scummy but this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for LOM.

[forehead7]

This sets off alarm bells for me. Hosting a game is totally a valid excuse. We get the first sign that legends may actually contribute and that makes you vote him?

FOS: forehead7[/ b]

His game doesn't have that many game mechanics though, pretty much just entails keeping up with the posts and posting vote counts, and he's hosting it with his brother so it's not as if he couldn't slack off to give us something, I'm not expecting him to the highest poster or anything but just give us a couple of suspects or something, ANYTHING!

You can finger me all you like(dirty, lol) but it still doesn't change the fact that LOM has given us nothing, at least Gingy has given us something (albeit not very much)

Oh man, SO not true. Maybe if you're running a very simple game with basic mechanics, but I've had mafia games that take me up to six hours to process, with interim processing during the day. Granted, the mechanics of that one were insane, but hosting a game can be a huge drain actually. In fact, I'm also hosting a game this week and will very likely be posting in less volume because of it.

While hosting a game is totally a valid excuse and forehead's dismissal of it is a little... dismissy... I'm not sure we have any sign that LoM will contribute yet. That looked like an excuse and non-content to me. Putting down a FoS instead of a vote when you admit in the same post that your previous vote lacks confidence is a little hinky.

As I've said above, his game doesn't seem too difficult to run(I died on day 1 so have been on the outside looking in pretty much)

I'm dismissing it because I've ran a more complex game than his but still was able to participate in another game and contribute a load more than he's giving us. And he's been in, all it takes it to read the thread and post one or two suspects, but he hasn't posted any game related content.

I have o big scumreads, and as we approach the deadline, if I still don't have anything, I'd say LOM, because of his unhelpfulness.
Forhead7 going after LOM doesn't seem too odd though, considering how much we've all been focused on LOM. We should also remember that forehead's played with LOM, and if he thinks the guy isn't going to be helpful,he might be right.

I do wanna see Forehead's reaction, though

I have, and as I've stated previously, he's a much more active poster than this which is why I think there's a good chance he's scum. The only time I played with him and he was mafia was in the game I ran, and he got village lynched on the first night. But comparing this performance to his innocent's makes me think he's dirty.

[forehead7]

I'm not defending LOM, I want him dead. Even more so with Gingy being replaced. He's deadwood at this point, and on Day 1 with the least information available he's a good lynch candidate.

I should say that I usually am quite in favour of killing the quiets, it's my tell when I'm mafia(not posting) so I feel that it's what most people do, outwith magical plays. So then when you start killing the quiets then you have a look at who's posting has increased and then they're probably mafia.

[forehead7]

While I don't disagree with you on LoM being deadwood, do you have an opinion on ANYONE else? I feel like all you've done this game is talk about your old buddy LoM.

Whiskers has come in and posted loads, a juxtaposition to his replaced. Maybe he's scum and he really wants to distance himself from how Gingy was playing as mafia(very quietly)

Apart from that, I don't have much until we know the allegiance of LOM. If LOM turns up town then we can have a look at who tried to get him out or who defended him.

I'll keep my vote on LOM atm.

@Haoalo, his whole game is different. He usually posts the most of any user so him not saying anything is really throwing me.

[forehead7]

This is such a load. People have said plenty of things that you can take a look at without knowing LoM's allegience. Suppose we don't even lynch LoM, what then? Why are you acting like it's a foregone conclusion?

But the majority of the recent talk has been to do with him. Then I'll re-evaluate how we came to that conclusion and I'll have a look at the votes and allegiance of the lynched. I'm not, I'm just saying what I'll do if he does get lynched since he's the only person, right now, that I think is a standout lynch candidate.

[forehead7]

unvote LOM
vote Whiskers

He's really triggering my scum-o-meter. The stuff about claiming other roles is pretty scummy, and it's also not helping us. Maybe putting some doubt prior to anyone actually claiming a role.

I am still in favour of killing LOM and will change back to him if he goes L-1, but Whiskers seems scummy as well.

[forehead7]

However, I CAN tell you what I see,and what I read. Right now I read forehead7 just did sometihng scummy-- no, not vogting for me, that's usually very pro-town.
No, what forehead7 did scummy is that he voted for me, BUT THEN! (gasp!) he said he'd go back and hammer Strato, if Strato got to L-1.

So... hammerlust? I thought that was a bad thing, why do you admit to having it forehead7?!

It's hardly a secret that I think LOM's dirty. Obviously, that hasn't changed since he's

still

not posted anything useful, so yeah, I do want him dead. That's not a major reveal, sorry.

Hammerlust? I don't have it for anyone except LOM, but that's because I really think he's dirty.

It is interesting how you've reacted to one vote though, I'm sensing some anger Whiskers.

[forehead7]

I'm leaning towards agreeing with Haoala, Android has been a bit erratic. I still think Whiskers is more dirty than Android.

[forehead7]

Wow, lot of stuff recently. I'm only on page 11. I see Johhog has joined us, welcome sir! Gimme an hour or so.

[forehead7]

Right I've caught up now and firstly:
Welcome Hiplop as well(you weren't in the first post so I didn't know you'd replaced when I said hello to Johhog

I thought you're supposed to abandon your scumbuddies as soon as they got reasonable suspicion, not defend them. A hard lynch just a lynch that takes a lot of work to get it to work. AD doesn't have anypony defending him, does he (except for me, now)?

If I understand it then this is some WIFOM, right?

Forehead:
Has brought up next-to-nothing that doesn't have to do with his buddy LoM. He's basically tunneled on LoM being obviously scum and doesn't care much to examine the other players. Also seems to feel he can't scumhunt without voting records. Frustrating, but I read this as a sign of newbishness and someone who is latching on to someone he knows. Though if this keeps up, I definitely want more pressure on this guy.

I'm not gonna lie, the long deadlines are making me feel less excited by this game. I'm not gonna shit on it though, it's the way you(pl) play games over here and I joined in. But if I am to join another game, I'd look(if there is an option) to join a game that has shorter deadlines, probably 2 or 3 days ea.

What do ISO and lampshading mean? Does "ml" mean mis-lynch?

I still think Android and Whiskers are the two scum.

Demyx and Johhog's spat has put them in the "maybe" column. The bad thing is, if one flips town then the other will probably die and there's a decent chance they both could be town, even more so since I don't really think much of their argument is as concrete as the ones that have been presented on Android or Whiskers.

I'm not really getting anything on anyone else. Hiplop seems town to me, the other three(Haoala, Tajun and StefanB) I can't read.

[forehead7]

We essentially learn foreheads alignment. Pretty much every post by him has been about LegendOfMafia or johhog. We learn how much we should trust johhogs analysis, if he flips town ill learn that I was wrong, and need to adjust my playstyle accordingly. etc etc

Lots of info.

Uh oh, god he better flip scum or I'm dead.

Johhog is acting very much like he did in the game we played together, he fought bitterly after deadline then as well.

Whiskers, I thought you were overly fighting to get rid of your previous player's scumtell(Gingy was silent). The fact you wanted to lynch Android Dreams after he claimed made me feel even more that way.

Is that Johhog definitely dead now, even if the Mod doesn't call the deadline slightly early?

[forehead7]

Right cool, thought so. Just wasn't sure if early lynches didn't happen so close to the deadline.

[forehead7]

Secondly, I think we're all not sure if you're town. Forehead hopes you flip town so he won't be lynched. I hope you flip scum so that we flipped scum.

No I said I hope he flips scum, as it would lay more credence to my "tunneling" of LOM. If Johhog flips town then I was going after a town which doesn't look good.

I did say it in a tongue and cheek sense though, nice of you to try and twist it though.

[pre-edit] nevermind...sort of.

[forehead7]

So we aren't told if the doctor prevents a kill or if anyone's put in jail? In non MS games, it usually says the player's name and FAILED/GUARDED(depending on the reason for the kill not working)

I'll wait until everyone has posted in this day but I'm still suspicious of Whiskers. I'm not surprised Johhog was town, but am surprised Legend of Mafia was, he is a bit of a buttmunch though.

[forehead7]

Also, Forehead is awfully quiet. The only post he's made today was commenting that we don't know whether it was a JK or doc save, and saying he would wait until everyone else has posted. Forehead, you there?

I am, sorry, been quite busy studying for exams(not that that's an excuse for slacking off but it's the reason)

Not that we want to win that way but Haoala's death is obviously good.

Gone trough Haoalas ISO:

To people strike me as posible candidates for scum.
Hiplop due to the not mentioning of him and VitaminR and the second case:
is Whiskers:
Sorry the whole conversation with Haoala looks very much like teaching their scumbuddy to play better. And that was a clasic vote town, FOS my scumbuddy. Another think is that there were 2 waggons, Haoala did vote Johhog and not Whiskers.

There is the old VC anylisis also. There were 4 players of the lynchwaggon (the dead towny, AD, me and Forehead) Scum is normaly not complete on a misslynch day 1.
This makes Forehead for me another suspect.

Pro Hiplop is that he was pretty anti Haoala, so that get's to mentioned.

So

Vote: Forehead[/ b]

Hang on. You say you have two candidates for who you think is scum, Hiplop and Whiskers(right?) and then you go and vote me. I'm confused, maybe I've read that wrong.

Who did me, you, AD and Johhog lynchwaggon exactly? Also what's "VC"

If we jail the remaining mafia member, do we win? Or do we need to kill them?

[forehead7]

I did that search on Haoala's posts.

I didn't really get anything from him. Although he did go after AndroidDreams, then went onto Whiskers, and then back onto AndroidDreams. I'd need to have a look at the times but it could be around the time that Whiskers started getting a bit of heat, goes after the other scum but then stops because he doesn't want to actual lynch his buddy.

I still think Whiskers is scummy. Tajun is also flickering on my radar. I'm not convinced he's scum but certainly above neutral.

I'm leaning towards Demyx being clean, I asked about whether we need to jail the mafia member because obviously if that was the case then we'd win if Demyx was the other mafia member. Obviously not though, so that isn't helpful. I'm leaning towards that because I agree with her maths(I think it was Demyx who did it) Either AD jailed the scum or the scums target or the doctor saved the scum target. With their only being a 33% chance of there being a doctor then that immediately becomes less likely. AD has no reason to lie and the chances of AD hitting the scum is less than the chance of him hitting the scum target.

pre-edit: many thanks Tajun, edited my post slightly to reflect his answer to my question.

[forehead7]

Forehead: We four were on the Whiskerslynchwaggon at deadline.

Yeah, but it's not really relevant until we know what Whiskers is. It's also irrelevant because Johhog(confirmed town), AD(pretty much town atm) and yourself(presumably claiming town) were all on it as well. 3 of four pretty much town(or 3 if you exchange me for you since I'm town as well) were on that lynch.

You even said that you thought Whiskers was dirty, and you obviously thought it if you voted for Whiskers as well so it isn't a lynchwagon, unless you're admitting that you voted for Whiskers for nothing-reasons.

unvote whoever(don't think I have voted but just incase)
vote Tajun

This might seem like OMGUS, but your reasons for voting me are bullshit. You threw suspicion on two people(Hiplop and Whiskers) and then voted for me, claiming a lynchwagon which you and I were on for a reason for voting for me. Also think you went after me because I was quiet over the last couple of days, trying for an easy target.

I wasn't too sure on you, but this has made you jump further up to the top of the list, along with Whiskers.

You and Whiskers are scummy, with Tajun floating in the purgatory between scummy and neutral.

Demyx and Hiplop are neutral at the moment and AD is "pretty much town".

[forehead7]

Question: Forehead, are you saying StefanB and whiskers are scummy, and tajun is floating in the purgatory between scummy and neutral? Just wanting to make sure I understand right.

Yeah sorry.

Whiskers and Stefan seem scummy, Tajun is in between scummy and neutral.

[forehead7]

Shit.

unvote Tajun
vote StefanB

What I said makes sense now. I voted for the wrong person, lol.

It's because I replied to Stefan's post and then typed out what I was gonna post, then looked back from post 665 to the most recent posts. I accidently voted for Tajun because I saw Hiplop had and his name obviously got in my head.

I'm not gonna vote for someone who I'm unsure about when I have two suspects. Apologies for the confusion.

pre-edit:mistakenly voted for him Whiskers.

[forehead7]

Can somepony give me a good reason why haoala would not be scum? He's the only one that looks bad to me, with Android being second, and Demyx coming in third. (<-These are gut, since i haven't ISO'd anypony to make a case)

No, he just seems mean.
He was mean to me! ;__;
So, nothing really. I'm just feeling Omgussy toward him, and wondered if there was a good reason to vote.
He's been voting around without getting much attention is all-- I guess just the same: He's flying under the radar, sort of.

seem like distancing to me. Of course he was right as it turns out, but for the wrong reasons. If there is anything that I see as scummy, it is being right without a good reason for it.

I actually quite like this, he votes for the other mafia "on gut instincts". He gets the credit of being right if he happens to get killed but doesn't give the rest of the town reasons to get behind the lynch, thus protecting his buddy.

[forehead7]

Forehead is at L-1 now. Please, nobody vote for Forehead until he gets a chance to post.

I've been reading the posts.

Apologies, but I can't see what the actual case is against me. Whiskers voted for me because other people said it was either me or her. So she votes me.

Stefan voted for me because I was part of a bunch of people voting for Whiskers. Stefan thought that Hiplop or Whiskers for scum but voted for me anyway because the other three people who voted for her(Whiskers) are/were innocent. Hmm.

Demyx voted for me because I'm flying under the radar, sorta fair enough. I am trying to post more but over the weekend there was nothing to go on, no one posted at all on Sunday.

[forehead7]

Forehead7, My vote on you was Mostly OMGUS. I don't see the case on you myself (as I said earlier), but somepony else said it's there.
Besides plain Omgus, I don't really like you since you got conftown reads from everypony, and now that you have that supposrt you start posting. My case is not a good one-- I wouldn't go so far as to call it a case.

Unvote

.

You all know how I feel about my own lynch.

I started posting more because two or three people said I was suspicious cause I was "lying low".

[forehead7]

If the JK can protect someone from the lynch, and the doctor can as well. Shouldn't the doctor reveal(if we have one). The doctor can protect Android Dream and AD can jail keep the doctor. We can just lynch everyone else, right? Or is there something I'm missing? :S

[forehead7]

Sorry, been a bit busy. I'm just about to go to my Grandad's 80th party but I'll catch up(page 31 for my benefit) and post tomorrow.

Again, apologies.

[forehead7]

Actually, rereading forehead's posts he did say that he was studying for exams as well atp. I won't hold his disappearance against him, that's a pretty legit excuse.

Yes, I am. My last one is on Tuesday and then I don't go back to university until the last Tuesday in September so I'll be able to put in the hours again after Tuesday.

Since Demyx asked: Forehead:

In his Iso 17 (240) he votes Whiskers
After that about LoM:

Forehead wrote

It's hardly a secret that I think LOM's dirty. Obviously, that hasn't
changed since he's still not posted anything useful, so yeah, I do
want him dead. That's not a major reveal, sorry

Has never voted him since.

I was convinced LOM was mafia, but I also thought Whiskers was dirty. Since LOM wasn't posting, I thought I'd throw a vote onto Whiskers and see how she reacted, that's a fairly standard day 1 action. Probing about to see what moves.

His reads:

I still think Android and Whiskers are the two scum.
Demyx and Johhog's spat has put them in the "maybe" column. The bad
thing is, if one flips town then the other will probably die and
there's a decent chance they both could be town, even more so since I
don't really think much of their argument is as concrete as the ones
that have been presented on Android or Whiskers.
I'm not really getting anything on anyone else. Hiplop seems town to
me, the other three(Haoala, Tajun and StefanB) I can't read.

Well safe spot for the scum. Very strange reaction to the Demyx-Johhog fight. Reads like I think both could be town but let's call them dirty.

Yeah, because I couldn't read them. Ironically, it was because all three of you weren't posting. I couldn't get a firm grasp on you and thus weren't gonna put you in either of the other groups.

His reaction after the Johhogynch:

Uh oh, god he better flip scum or I'm dead.
Johhog is acting very much like he did in the game we played together,
he fought bitterly after deadline then as well.
Whiskers, I thought you were overly fighting to get rid of your
previous player's scumtell(Gingy was silent). The fact you wanted to
lynch Android Dreams after he claimed made me feel even more that way.

Strange for not beeing on the waggon since the beginning of the day. Seems more concerned about looking good, than anythink else. Made me also think that scum doesn't want the people lynched the call scum they want town to lynch the people they call town so they don't need new suspects. Would call this nervous about getting dirty by calling town scum.
Was btw called out by Whiskers and defends it in 557 as toungue in check.

Yeah, I was hoping Johhog flipped scum, as it would look better for me. It was more down to me tunnelling LOM though.

I'm not surprised Johhog was town, but am surprised Legend of Mafia was, he is a bit of a buttmunch though.

Comes after the no-kill in the night. Still talking about the lynch, still trying to look clean.

I'm not sure how this is a bad thing, I mean, the results do help to try and scumhunt or look for cleared-ish townies.

Not that we want to win that way but Haoala's death is obviously good.

His reaction to the Modkill. Makes him seme like a good townie, but look artifical.

Tajun has called some of his mistakes towntells. He is perhabs better to list them.

Last argument, was with me the only one off the Johhongwaggon, who isn't pretty much cleared (AD), or death (Johhong)

Would vote him, if there wasn't Whiskers.

How is it artificial?

You can't use the example of being on a bandwagon that you yourself were on as a reason for someone being dirty. If you were on it then you obviously felt that person was dirty, so me being on it says the same.

My catch up hasn't brought me too much, in terms of reads. But Whiskers is looking more town to me.

I'd go with Stefan is still the scum.
Tajun, Whiskers and Hiplop are neutral, leaning towards town.
Demyx is very town.
Android Dreams is pretty much confirmed as town.

As I said, I've got my last exam on Tuesday but I'll try and look in tomorrow sometime. And then I'll really be able to get back into it from Wednesday onwards.

[forehead7]

Forehead should I wait whit the response after your exames?
I you are ready give me the okay. (If you are Mafia or not, reallife comes first)
Second a tipp for the future, you may want in cases where you are probably bussy post V/LAs when you aren't there.

Fire away sir, I'll be back after this in about 20ish hours.

Since Demyx asked: Forehead:

In his Iso 17 (240) he votes Whiskers
After that about LoM:

Forehead wrote

It's hardly a secret that I think LOM's dirty. Obviously, that hasn't
changed since he's still not posted anything useful, so yeah, I do
want him dead. That's not a major reveal, sorry

Has never voted him since.

I was convinced LOM was mafia, but I also thought Whiskers was dirty. Since LOM wasn't posting, I thought I'd throw a vote onto Whiskers and see how she reacted, that's a fairly standard day 1 action. Probing about to see what moves.

His reads:

I still think Android and Whiskers are the two scum.
Demyx and Johhog's spat has put them in the "maybe" column. The bad
thing is, if one flips town then the other will probably die and
there's a decent chance they both could be town, even more so since I
don't really think much of their argument is as concrete as the ones
that have been presented on Android or Whiskers.
I'm not really getting anything on anyone else. Hiplop seems town to
me, the other three(Haoala, Tajun and StefanB) I can't read.

Well safe spot for the scum. Very strange reaction to the Demyx-Johhog fight. Reads like I think both could be town but let's call them dirty.

Yeah, because I couldn't read them. Ironically, it was because all three of you weren't posting. I couldn't get a firm grasp on you and thus weren't gonna put you in either of the other groups.

His reaction after the Johhogynch:

Uh oh, god he better flip scum or I'm dead.

I thought this seemed pretty shady at the time but neglected to bring it up.

Strange for not beeing on the waggon since the beginning of the day. Seems more concerned about looking good, than anythink else. Made me also think that scum doesn't want the people lynched the call scum they want town to lynch the people they call town so they don't need new suspects. Would call this nervous about getting dirty by calling town scum.
Was btw called out by Whiskers and defends it in 557 as toungue in check.

An interesting take on the matter.

I'm not surprised Johhog was town, but am surprised Legend of Mafia was, he is a bit of a buttmunch though.

Comes after the no-kill in the night. Still talking about the lynch, still trying to look clean.

"Oh no, that guy was town!" is indeed a common scum-thing.

Not that we want to win that way but Haoala's death is obviously good.

His reaction to the Modkill. Makes him seme like a good townie, but look artifical.

It's much in the vein of the above "Oh dear, Johhog was town!"

You can't use the example of being on a bandwagon that you yourself were on as a reason for someone being dirty. If you were on it then you obviously felt that person was dirty, so me being on it says the same.

You absolutely can if you think the other person has a worse reason for being on the wagon.

My catch up hasn't brought me too much, in terms of reads. But Whiskers is looking more town to me.

I realize you're busy with exams and all, but are you going to ever post reads? It's kind of a necessary part of the game.

I'd go with Stefan is still the scum.
Tajun, Whiskers and Hiplop are neutral, leaning towards town.
Demyx is very town.
Android Dreams is pretty much confirmed as town.

These aren't reads because they don't have reasons.

As I said, I've got my last exam on Tuesday but I'll try and look in tomorrow sometime. And then I'll really be able to get back into it from Wednesday onwards.

Cool. I'm probably not going to vote you until you have a chance to talk more.[/quote]

[forehead7]

Shit, meant to click "preview", Vel-Rahn Koon can you delete or edit the post please? I'm about to post the same post but with my words, I'm trying to fix the quoting problems and as such will be pressing preview to make sure it's ok.

[forehead7]

You can't use the example of being on a bandwagon that you yourself were on as a reason for someone being dirty. If you were on it then you obviously felt that person was dirty, so me being on it says the same.

You absolutely can if you think the other person has a worse reason for being on the wagon.

I'd need to have a proper look, which I'll be doing tomorrow night as well, but I suspect I was voting Johhog because of his previous poster. I don't think I was on his lynch when he got hammered. Stefan, care to remind of us of why you were on the lynch?

My catch up hasn't brought me too much, in terms of reads. But Whiskers is looking more town to me.

I realize you're busy with exams and all, but are you going to ever post reads? It's kind of a necessary part of the game.

Yes, I plan on doing the ISO thing on each individual, so stay tuned!

I'd go with Stefan is still the scum.
Tajun, Whiskers and Hiplop are neutral, leaning towards town.
Demyx is very town.
Android Dreams is pretty much confirmed as town.

These aren't reads because they don't have reasons.

Noted, reasons haven't really changed but I'll have a refresh and post reasons for my feelings on everyone.

As I said, I've got my last exam on Tuesday but I'll try and look in tomorrow sometime. And then I'll really be able to get back into it from Wednesday onwards.

Cool. I'm probably not going to vote you until you have a chance to talk more.

I hope that I can repay your faith.

I'm going to

unvote StefanB

I still have my suspicions of him, and think he's the dirtiest looking but I can't remember the reasons clearly, that small break hasn't helped my memory. It's not fair to vote for him without clear reasons. I'll be ISOing him and everyone else when I get back tomorrow.

[forehead7]

Yes, I plan on doing the ISO thing on each individual, so stay tuned!

Why not just read the thread then? And take notes like that? If you're going to do it on everyone, I can't see the use of looking at EVERY single post out of context.

Because you might notice things when you're reading the same person, I'd probably notice changes in posting more than if I just re-read the thread. Also probably won't read my posts or Johhog's since they aren't gonna be too helpful.

Have no problem with the fact that you voted Whiskers, more like that you have never acted on your LOMsuspicion after that post again. This was more introduction.

Because I thought he'd get modkilled, felt there was no need to waste my energy on him anymore, I'd made my case. People were telling me to stop focusing just on him and I think it was Demyx who suggested I should look at others, so I did.

Having nullreads is okay. But here it's hm. I don't think I was that silent in the beginning, Tajun I think posted also enough content. So saying we weren't posting is not right.
Interesting what he doesn't comment on. His point about Demyx-Johong and the reading of Haoala, which were the points I was trying to make.
So he comes of witch a huh? argument and ignores the interesting points.

Difficult to read posts though, you can post a lot without giving info and I suspect that it'd be that.

Haoala's read is pretty simple, he posted enough but didn't really stand out as either, certainly not the most town or most scum. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously tried to claim they had him pegged as the scum.

I'm not sure what was wrong with my read on the Demyx and Johhog fight, I don't think there was much to it(in terms of substance or reasons), certainly I didn't believe so and as such, I thought that one could be scum since obviously scum tend to make up or make the most out of small things to argue with townies about. I wasn't going to call them both scum as it didn't feel staged but I wasn't sure of the reasons so either could have been scum. Although LOM felt mafia-y, Johhog didn't but I wasn't convinced during this argument.

Well most people hope the lynched person flipps scum, because dead scum= good. Your point is more like defending (before the attack), don't want to look scummy, which is not exactly townmind, exspecially because you called LOM scummy long before Johhog replaced in, haven't attacked him since, weren't on the lynchwaggon.
It's ironical that I ask that: Why were you so damm nervous?

As I said, it was a tongue and cheek comment, not meant to be taken fully serious. Pretty stupid of me, if I was scum, to come and say something like that, no? LOM's lack of helpful posts but him being active wasn't helpful, I thought that getting rid of him early would allow us to move on. I mean, we ended up lynching him(effectively) anyway. Johhog felt very town to me, didn't post anything that stood out scummy and was very active. I felt that Whiskers was the correct choice for the lynch, so that's where my vote was.

I was "nervous" because I really went after LOM. If he(well Johhog) had flipped town then I would've felt like I hadn't wasted most of Day 1 going after him, and yeah, it would've given me some town-points.

Well, analysing the lynch is of course not a bad think. But your action here is not exactly scumhunting, bad people would call it fluff. My point was that you did that to look more clean, not exactly helpfull or from a townmind necessary

Sometimes I just post opinions on things, not every post is gonna be a winner. I'm sure I could dig up some useless posts of yours.

The reaction doesn't feel genuine. It feels more like, you want to look good than helpful. It reads translated "I don't like it, but it's a good think because I am town." (I kind of ugh reaction) Look at the other reaction, they look more real.

I'm not really sure there's anything I can say to defend this, not a copout, but it's just a reaction. His death was cheap, I would much rather win by the village's good work at scumhunting rather than the mafia getting modkilled for some cheating.

Sorry the first part is fail. I never said that your suspicion of Whiskers was not good. The fact that the waggon on Whiskers didn't look bad is not a reason for there to be no scum on it. The fact that you are the only one on it, that I am unsure of, is sending alarming bells. But I will let that fall (Everone should now react now, HUH????) because you will see later.
Having only scumread can be a sign for very bad scum or for bad reads.

So you're saying that there has to be a scum on every bandwagon? Could easily be that the remaining scum doesn't want to be associated with any potential lynchwagons.

Other facts: Forehead and Haoala have never voted for the same person.
The only L-1 waggon Whiskers wasn't a part of was his own.

Hmm, that's interesting. I presume that that's just every L-1 wagon, or have we never been on the same person? If it's the former, then there's plenty more that can be deduced from your work detailing all the wagons.

For example, Haoala and Johhog were never on the same wagon. Obviously we know their allegiances, but it's interesting and it means that a townie could never have voted "with" Haoala. I'm not using this as a defense, it's more just something to think about.

Also, you saying that I might be scum because me, you(Stefan), Johhog and AD were on the same wagon and you believe there's a scum on every wagon. By that token, one of Hiplop, Demyx, yourself(Stefan) and Tajun are probably scum as you were all on "Johhog 2".

On the note about Whiskers being on all of them, Stefan you were only not on the first and final Johhog wagons. Haoala being on the final one might suggest that the other mafia member would stay off it as we'd find out that we lynched an innocent, by your logic on the Whisker's wagon then you must be mafia because of that.

[forehead7]

Also your comments on the votecount seem designed to deflect attention rather than to help. I'm having trouble buying your defense here.

It was more to show that the voting patterns weren't of any use, or certainly have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[forehead7]

Well, on that point we certainly agree. At the very least they are open to interpretation. Do you like StefanB as the scum again/still then?

I'm not sure, although the case is against me it's some pretty good posting. That I will admit. Some of the stuff does look pretty bad, although I'm town. I've not had time to do the ISOs I was going to, probably get round to it tomorrow as I'm not doing anything apart from the dentist, which is in like 9 hours, so I'll have plenty of time tomorrow afternoon, GMT.

Well, on that point we certainly agree. At the very least they are open to interpretation.

(Just took Tajuns quote, because it is a nice starting point to make this statement)
They are open to interpratation, if someone finds somethink else in there be my guest. If someone seens aditional info on it, cool. But Forehead seems more, how can I redicul it, than can I use that to find scum, which should ring allarming bells.

I'm more just trying to show ways in which looking solely at the voting pattern can be false, I will admit that it doesn't look great that I haven't voted on the same person as Haoala, but you'll see(if you lynch me) that it's just pure coincidence, or a weird play by the mafia.

Forehead wrote:

Because I thought he'd get modkilled, felt there was no need to waste my energy on him anymore, I'd made my case. People were telling me to stop focusing just on him and I think it was Demyx who suggested I should look at others, so I did.

Why did you think LoM was getting modkilled???? There was no point where he was in danger of that. Ignoring LoM for the rest of his play okay, but when Johhog replaced in, that would have been a place to be suspicios, not treading it, as 2 different slots. But okay, that is the introduction, not the meat of the case.

He wasn't posting nearer the end, IIRC. (he admitted off(this)board that he got "bored" of it, or something to that effect. Did he not get prodded? I was giving Johhog a chance to come in and be helpful, be a good villager, and I feel he did that, in terms of, his posts were scummy, that's why I didn't go after him.

Forehead wrote:

Difficult to read posts though, you can post a lot without giving info and I suspect that it'd be that.

Haoala's read is pretty simple, he posted enough but didn't really stand out as either, certainly not the most town or most scum. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously tried to claim they had him pegged as the scum.

does not synch with:

Yeah, because I couldn't read them. Ironically, it was because all three of you weren't posting. I couldn't get a firm grasp on you and thus weren't gonna put you in either of the other groups.

I tread your Haoala=null as a point against you. Pegged as scum perhabs no, voiced suspicion yes: Demyx and me voted him, and Hiplop had some suspicion about him.
And now we have that. What version is true: That Tajun and me weren't posting or that you couldn't get a read of them. Just that you posted 2 version (the truth has only one) makes you more suspicious. It's not uncommon to not be sure if a certain (even very active) poster is town or scum. But storys that don't match are scummy.

"Weren't posting" means that he wasn't posting enough to get a read on him, as his posts were just sorta there. No real conviction. I don't recall him really going after anyone like I did with LOM, or you have with me.

I'm not sure what was wrong with my read on the Demyx and Johhog fight, I don't think there was much to it(in terms of substance or reasons), certainly I didn't believe so and as such, I thought that one could be scum since obviously scum tend to make up or make the most out of small things to argue with townies about. I wasn't going to call them both scum as it didn't feel staged but I wasn't sure of the reasons so either could have been scum. Although LOM felt mafia-y, Johhog didn't but I wasn't convinced during this argument.

So why was it such a big point. It's a small think in your opinion. Somethink that you weren' sure played a big role. Everyone can be scum, why was it so important for you?

What? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that sentence seems pretty contradictory, you say it's a big point then it's a small thing and doesn't play a big role then you claim it's important, all to me or in my opinion. Can you clarify here please?

Forehead about his "I hope he is scum."

As I said, it was a tongue and cheek comment, not meant to be taken fully serious. Pretty stupid of me, if I was scum, to come and say something like that, no? LOM's lack of helpful posts but him being active wasn't helpful, I thought that getting rid of him early would allow us to move on. I mean, we ended up lynching him(effectively) anyway. Johhog felt very town to me, didn't post anything that stood out scummy and was very active. I felt that Whiskers was the correct choice for the lynch, so that's where my vote was.

I was "nervous" because I really went after LOM. If he(well Johhog) had flipped town then I would've felt like I hadn't wasted most of Day 1 going after him, and yeah, it would've given me some town-points.

The first part is WIFOM. If you are scum you were trying to clear yourself from the myslynch.

I wasn't part of the mislynch though so I didn't have to clear myself from anything. It was everyone else except yourself, myself and Johhog who lynched Johhog. Presuming that by mislynch you mean lynching a villager.

So you're saying that there has to be a scum on every bandwagon? Could easily be that the remaining scum doesn't want to be associated with any potential lynchwagons.

My theory is that scum tryes to blend in, they try to get townies lynched, so no they don't have to be on every bandwaggon, but they will be on them.

That isn't really your theory, that's a pretty obvious statement(unless they're trying a play or something) but there doesn't

need

to be one on every wagon, I was just trying to prove that just because there's a wagon doesn't mean there's a scum on it and as such, if there's only one "uncleared" player(in your, or the village's eyes) then that doesn't mean that person is scum. Even if you have a decent case against that person, I don't think you can use that as an excuse. Certainly, other people can't use it to vote as, from their view, we're both uncleared and there's an equal chance we could be scum(or town).

Forehead:

For example, Haoala and Johhog were never on the same wagon. Obviously we know their allegiances, but it's interesting and it means that a townie could never have voted "with" Haoala. I'm not using this as a defense, it's more just something to think about.

Also, you saying that I might be scum because me, you(Stefan), Johhog and AD were on the same wagon and you believe there's a scum on every wagon. By that token, one of Hiplop, Demyx, yourself(Stefan) and Tajun are probably scum as you were all on "Johhog 2".

On the note about Whiskers being on all of them, Stefan you were only not on the first and final Johhog wagons. Haoala being on the final one might suggest that the other mafia member would stay off it as we'd find out that we lynched an innocent, by your logic on the Whisker's wagon then you must be mafia because of that.

Okay, the waggonanalysis is a tool, but you are not trying to be helpful here as town. I don't know if Haoala and Johhog/LoM were conected. I didn't analise Johhog very much, he wasn't of a concern of me.
My point about Johhog 2 was that it build very fast and Haoala was in catching up status during it, you were bussy on your waggon. So it is the most logic of mafia beeing away from it. So nice try but explained for me.
Okay my status: I was on four waggons: Whiskers(then Gingy), Android, Johhog and Whiskers. 2 of them were late at the day, in the others I was the waggonstarter. So your point?

I'm defending myself, obviously defending myself isn't going to help the town(at this moment) until I get a chance to provide evidence against you (or anyone else). Although, me pointing out the flaws in the voting evidence you've provided could be helpful to the village as it might make you look scummy, like you're making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, something a scum has to do to get townies lynched.

I reckon that if me and Haoala were the mafia then we might've made more of an effort to get him lynched on that wagon. Considering the only difference between the people on that wagon and the one which got Johhog lynched was Haoala and Whiskers not being on it and you being on it. Considering Haoala was the one who hammered Johhog, I'm sure one of us would've done it, I mean the mafia obviously don't care about how it looks to be the hammer-er. I'm sure there would've been some pressure on Haoala about the hammering if he hadn't died prematurely.

Was more that that point about Whiskers isn't cut and dry. You've been on the wagons of two townies(well pretty much, hindsight) and Whiskers' character twice, not exactly beaming town-ness.

[forehead7]

Just noticed the dead players bit in the OP, what does "neutral survivor" mean? It says that Haoala turned it, just wondering that's all.

[forehead7]

I'm defending myself, obviously defending myself isn't going to help the town(at this moment) until I get a chance to provide evidence against you (or anyone else).

Yup. What I'm really waiting from on you is reads.

They're acoming, don't worry.

I reckon that if me and Haoala were the mafia then we might've made more of an effort to get him lynched on that wagon. Considering the only difference between the people on that wagon and the one which got Johhog lynched was Haoala and Whiskers not being on it and you being on it. Considering Haoala was the one who hammered Johhog, I'm sure one of us would've done it, I mean the mafia obviously don't care about how it looks to be the hammer-er. I'm sure there would've been some pressure on Haoala about the hammering if he hadn't died prematurely.

That would point to Whiskers, wouldn't it?

Possibly, but it could also be that the other mafia was already on the lynch, not that I have any strong feelings on who it is atm, although Stefan and Whiskers are the most likely, given my past votings and reads but that could change when I do my next set.


Thanks for all the responses about the survivor thing, get it now.


pre-edit: That's sorta fair Tajun, of course I'm not going to like it when it's pointing to me but I'm not sure you can use 1 day's worth to incriminate someone, but I'm not sure you can utilize is in this sort of game. When I said that VCs were useful I meant a few days worth of voting, with confirmed townies but you probably don't get them in a 9 player newbie game since it won't last long enough to get a band of confirmed town/scums. It's a tactic I like to employ in my games on other boards but they're larger and it's usually about Day 3/4 before you can use them to the town's advantage.

[forehead7]

It IS a couple of days and we HAVE a couple of confirmed townies.
I guess the only other thing to tell you is to go sign up for a Large Normal. (because we don't have ENOUGH days or confirmed?)

We only have one confirmed town and only one day's worth of voting for that person and half of it wasn't useful since LOM was a total douche who didn't really play as a townie.

Although AndroidDreams looks good, he could still be playing the big dirty on us and just claimed a role and then didn't submit that night to give his claim more weight, not likely and it would be helluva gamble but still could be possible.

[forehead7]

So if I have a strong scumread I will vote that, if not than I will vote LoM near deadline, even if it is the hammer.

It is my head vs my heart. My head is telling me that since LoM is not playing, there is a bigger chance for him to be town, even if his play is marginally better for scum.
My heart tells me that LoM is a headache and I would like to see him gone.

This doesn't sit well with me. I was voting for LOM because his usual game is posting a lot, and him not doing so felt scummy. Demyx said something similar. But Stefan seems to want to lynch him just cause he's not posting despite thinking he's more likely town.

About LoM, him beeing a bigger probability of beeing town is just simple math. 6/8 is more than 2/8 (from my point of viev)
I am willing to vote him, if I don't have a scumread or no chance to have my scumread lynched. First makes the chance of him beeing scum bigger. (The more townreads you have the less got it is looking for the nullreads)
Second a lynch on a null, is better than a nolynch. A lynch on a townread would be terrible. (Exection about 1 hour before deadline)
I am also only discusing a potential scenario here. Not one that I am working at.

It's not as cut and dry as that, from post 1 maybe but as the game goes on different factors come into it, the numbers would have to have some sort of coefficient involved to make it truly correct. (sorry, it's the mathematician in me coming out)

Also goes back to that he'll vote to lynch LOM despite thinking he's town, surely you'd vote for a no lynch or just stick on your suspected scum?

[quote="StefanB"I would say that Demyx, Tajun and

Haoalo

are definitly not a lynch for today.[/quote]

Quite near the deadline, just throws his scumbuddy's name into the mix of definitely not lynch candidates. Didn't add AndroidDreams in though, despite him claiming a PR.

If that wagon doesn't go of, I will hammer Whiskers at deadline. Still think he is more likly town, but I don't like him voting the claimed JK and I see where other players are comming from.

Another instance of Stefan saying he'll hammer someone who he think is town.

Why do you need him to say it again that he claims to be a vanilla townie?
He has.
Just getting the feeling that Whiskers could after all be the better lynch.
And perhaps I will feel stupid but

Unvote

Vote: Whiskers

He then votes that person. Is it not standard practice to make someone roleclaim when they're at L-1? That's all Whiskers was doing, getting a confirmed claim from Johhog since both LOM and Johhog had been pretty unclear about it.

Gone trough Haoalas ISO:

To people strike me as posible candidates for scum.
Hiplop due to the not mentioning of him and VitaminR and the second case:
is Whiskers:
Sorry the whole conversation with Haoala looks very much like teaching their scumbuddy to play better. And that was a clasic vote town, FOS my scumbuddy. Another think is that there were 2 waggons, Haoala did vote Johhog and not Whiskers.

There is the old VC anylisis also. There were 4 players of the lynchwaggon (the dead towny, AD, me and Forehead) Scum is normaly not complete on a misslynch day 1.
This makes Forehead for me another suspect.

Pro Hiplop is that he was pretty anti Haoala, so that get's to mentioned.

So

Vote: Forehead

Gets a couple of suspicions from Haoala's ISO but votes for someone else.

Forehead that is not even remotly what happened. I just tryed to use somethink from an arsenal that many scumhunters used and it pointed in your direction.
Whiskers: Why does it scare you if people don't see you as bad player?????????
I would advise against jailing Demyx again, there is not much pointing at Demyxscum.
I would rather see AD jk someone that he is suspicios of or who he sees in the neutral catagory.
For now

Unvote:

How about a little test, at the moment my vote would go to Hiplop or Whiskers. Why shouldn't I vote you or why should I vote the other one?

Part of the bullshit L-1 wagon on me. Whiskers voted because it was me or her, Demyx for me lurking and Stefan for me being one of the two unconfirmed on a wagon, the other being himself. I'm not sure who the other one was but apart from Demyx, the other two reasons were rubbish and hence why they both unvoted as soon as I pointed out as much.

Demyx: Your points in 861:

5. Okay for that quote I want to scream. I did give you my suspects a while back. I am the only one who did analyse Haoalas Iso completly. Your point is more that you don't like my reasoning.

That's not exactly true is it? Just because you made more out of it than others, and did it more publicly than others doesn't mean no one else looked it up.

There's also the stuff with the copclaim, his plan was alright but was obviously banking on there being one. Or he wanted the cop to claim so he could kill the cop and then AD the next night(if there's enough nights, cba doing the maths for it)

And then there's his attack on me, which obviously I think is rubbish. The vote stuff isn't concrete, not even close. Especially with there being only 9 players, not sure you can use that me and Haoala never voted for the same person when there was other instances of people not being on any of the wagons, Johhog and Haoala being one example I brought up as proof.

[forehead7]

Oh and Vel-Rahn Koon, I might be V/LA this weekend. I'm staying at my friend's flat both tonight and tomorrow night. He's supposed to be getting his internet router delivered today so if it does then I'll be able to set it up and get it running, in which case it should be alright.

But if he doesn't then I probably won't be on.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Noted, thank you!

[forehead7]

Hey guys
I'm not gonna have internet connection from the 29th to the 7th. I asked Vel if I should have a weeklong standin, or just be V/LA, but he said to ask you guys what you think

We could just lynch StefanB before that and we'd win anyway

I'm not sure, probably best to try and get a replacement for that time, more so because you've got quite an important role.

I presume that it's not allowed for Johhog to return for that week? I know Haoala wouldn't but Johhog won't have any more information that any other person who took his place. Just a thought.

[forehead7]

I think it's more likely that forehead7 is town than it is that StefanB is scum. I just want what I expect to be confirmed as true.

I think my head just exploded...

Gets a couple of suspicions from Haoala's ISO but votes for someone else.

The post you posted was AFTER Haoala got modkilled so I'm not sure why you were expecting him to vote for Haoala.

Misquoting someone, not cool...

No he voiced suspicion on Whiskers and Hiplop, then voted me. That was the gripe I had in that point.

Okay the bluffing part of AD is very low. Well look at mafiaperspective if AD would be mafia. A nokill is definitly bad for mafia, somethink they don't want. An acidential nokill is not very likly. (They had time for the code, so they were active) And if AD would be Mafia he knew that town had one or 2 of this: Jk (screewed), Doc (Best case but could still make thinks complicated and screw the plan), Cop(not good, exspecially since Ad could very well be invastigated)
So doesn't really make sense for the scum. AD is imho town. Killing him because he couldn't stopp the NK doesn't make sense, exspecially that he can only do it, of Tajun is scum, not very likly.

This is a good point, pretty much puts to be that Android Dreams is pulling a fast one on us, for me. I'm not sure anyone else did think it but it's always a thought in the back of my mind when I'm playing. No sense to waste the first NK, unless you really wanted to cement your claim, but I don't think anyone would've questioned his role even if the mafia had got their kill.

[forehead7]

How will the game go with the storms on the East Coast? Who here is an East Coaster?

[forehead7]

Not you, everyone! It makes those posts a hundred times harder to read. Sorry about last night, I'm a bit of a jerk when I drink. So we can wait till deadline then?

I agree, or start making your responses in a different colour(that isn't red or purple) so that we can easily see it if you're prone to making mistakes with the quote tags. I have taken to previewing a lot before posting though, works quite easily and have only mistakenly posted an unfinished post once so it's not too bad.

Are you not going to hammer now then? Deadline in about 30 hours right?

[forehead7]

After tonight we should probably lynch and JK me and StefanB(doesn't matter which way around) and then we'll win. Obviously I think that after tonight we should lynch StefanB and we'll be done with it.

All assuming that Whiskers isn't the last scum.

[forehead7]

PreEdit: We might not have a PR after tonight. In that case we would only get two lynches to get it right. Are you certain enough that StefanB is scum to be willing to let us lynch the two of you?

Right now? Yes.

If StefanB doesn't come up mafia then I will probably be lynched, if it comes to that then I think the mafia have done enough to win this as either Demyx or Hiplop is the mafia and they've played well if they're mafia.

Of course, if you're jailed and there's no NK then you should be JKed when me or Stefan is lynched then we'd assess it(if there's still no NK then you're scum, if there is a NK then you're obviously cleared)

[forehead7]

Hmm, a bold reply, one which certainly makes me rethink my stand on you. Which might very well be what you want... But for now, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I agree that Demyx deserves the win if she is mafia, and will likely get it, barring another PR being present. But I really am uncertain about hiplop. Unfortunately there are now 3 people who in my mind might be scum, and we might only get to lynch two.

It probably is what a mafia would say, but I'm really sure that it must be Whiskers or Stefan, more the latter obviously, but we can't ignore a lot of early play that made Whiskers dirty, but she's started to sound very town like recently which is why I wasn't convinced by her lynch.

I just haven't seen anything that has suggested Hiplop is the last scum. I'll need to have a look over his posts after the night but I just couldn't get behind a Hiplop lynch at the moment.

[forehead7]

I know we're in twilight just now so when Vel closes the thread and starts the night phase is that a set 72 hours or change it end quicker like the day section if the mafia decides within the first 24 hours?

Basically I want to know when I need to check in, if the night is a definitive 72 hours then I'll come back on Thursday and check in.

[forehead7]

First off: I'm going to be away Labor Day weekend and might not have very much time or access to the Internet for checking this site. Any large scumhunting type posts will probably have to wait until then. Sorry for the inconvenience

Roster:
Johhog, Whiskers - Dead Townies
AndroidDreams - Dead Jailkeeper
Haoala - Dead scum
Tajun - Confirmed town
Demyx, Hiplop, Forehead, Stefan - Unknown. Either three townies and one scum or two townies, one cop/doc and one scum.

Good that the scum didn't try anything stupid and abstain from night killing.

I'll try and read back through Hiplop's posts but atm it's between StefanB(most likely) and Hiplop, because Demyx has been pretty town through the game.

[forehead7]

Nah, the thing I was talking about doesnt mean anything anymore.

I'd be willing to lynch forehead today...

May I ask why you believe I'm more likely to be the scum than StefanB?

I'm assuming you see it more likely that it's one of us that's the final scum.

[forehead7]

This game is dying

[forehead7]

Forehead7, similarily if we lynch StefanB who flips town and I die, who would you lynch out of hiplop and Demyx?

Hiplop. Demyx has been very town throughout, if she flips scum then she deserves the win tbh. FWIW, I don't think he's very scummy but process of elimination leaves him.

[forehead7]

Forehead: It seems quite possible/likely that you and Stefanb will be the two lynches, are you alright with that still?

Yes. I understand that I'll get lynched today or tomorrow but StefanB would be my choice for the lynch.

I'll start us off on a massclaim. I am a vanilla townie. Forehead, you're up.

I'm a vanilla townie.

I've not had time to ISO Hiplop. (feeling very hungover today so will probably be tomorrow) but it really is between him and Stefan.

[forehead7]

Forehead: Who should claim next? Normally the one who has claimed, chose the next one.

I probably would've went for Hiplop or yourself, although I'm not sure it matters. No one is gonna claim anything except vanilla townie.

[forehead7]

I'm here. I haven't really been fighting my lynch because everyone(except Tajun) seemed resigned that I was going to die.

I'm interested in Hiplop though. He is saying I'm scum, which isn't true. What happens when I come up vanilla townie? He thinks everyone else is town :/

My view on Stefan hasn't changed, if anyone wants me too them I'll look back on the post I made before the last deadline on him.

I'll have a look back on Hiplop just now, but the last remaining scum is between Hiplop and Stefan(95% sure anyway). I'd say atm it's about 75 Stefan and 25 Hiplop.

I can only think that Hiplop is saying Stefan is town so that if Stefan does flip town then he looks better, and inevitably we'll lynch me and he'll win(if he's the scum) if he's not then I'm not sure what his angle is, he's either wrong or Demyx is the last scum.

I could live with us losing to Demyx, but I'd be super-pissed if Stefan wins, slightly less but still peeved if Hiplop wins, as scum obviously.

[forehead7]

Hmm, Hiplop's ISO provided very little. Although his read on Demyx has changed quite a bit from the start. Although Hiplop still has some reservations on her, I'm not sure that her style has changed much from the star. That and his read on Stefan seem to be the only things that stand out against him.

It's totally Stefan then

vote StefanB

[forehead7]

I get this, I do, and I did think Stefan was scummy before. I suppose I'd be all right with a Stefan lynch. But it bugs me a bit that the people who are going for Stefan (Tajun and Forehead) aren't really posting up that much of an argument. I'd feel better about it if I thought I knew why. I mean, I'm basically assuming Forehead is voting Stefan out of self-preservation.

Does anyone want to sum up the current case against Stefan? Tajun?

Calling it self-preservation makes it seem like I'm mafia trying to cling on, if I was trying to do that then I'd be fighting my lynch a lot harder. I obviously know that I'm town, and we have to assume AD actually did JK Tajun so that clears him. You've(Demyx) has been very town this game and there wasn't much from Hiplop to suggest scumminess either. Process of elimination and some evidence leaves me with StefanB. Here's the case I posted a few pages back, I think Stefan already defended some of it but it's more just to rehash it, my opinion isn't going to change unless Stefan dies and is revealed to be town.

So if I have a strong scumread I will vote that, if not than I will vote LoM near deadline, even if it is the hammer.

It is my head vs my heart. My head is telling me that since LoM is not playing, there is a bigger chance for him to be town, even if his play is marginally better for scum.
My heart tells me that LoM is a headache and I would like to see him gone.

This doesn't sit well with me. I was voting for LOM because his usual game is posting a lot, and him not doing so felt scummy. Demyx said something similar. But Stefan seems to want to lynch him just cause he's not posting despite thinking he's more likely town.

About LoM, him beeing a bigger probability of beeing town is just simple math. 6/8 is more than 2/8 (from my point of viev)
I am willing to vote him, if I don't have a scumread or no chance to have my scumread lynched. First makes the chance of him beeing scum bigger. (The more townreads you have the less got it is looking for the nullreads)
Second a lynch on a null, is better than a nolynch. A lynch on a townread would be terrible. (Exection about 1 hour before deadline)
I am also only discusing a potential scenario here. Not one that I am working at.

It's not as cut and dry as that, from post 1 maybe but as the game goes on different factors come into it, the numbers would have to have some sort of coefficient involved to make it truly correct. (sorry, it's the mathematician in me coming out)

Also goes back to that he'll vote to lynch LOM despite thinking he's town, surely you'd vote for a no lynch or just stick on your suspected scum?

[quote="StefanB"I would say that Demyx, Tajun and

Haoalo

are definitly not a lynch for today.

Quite near the deadline, just throws his scumbuddy's name into the mix of definitely not lynch candidates. Didn't add AndroidDreams in though, despite him claiming a PR.

If that wagon doesn't go of, I will hammer Whiskers at deadline. Still think he is more likly town, but I don't like him voting the claimed JK and I see where other players are comming from.

Another instance of Stefan saying he'll hammer someone who he think is town.

Why do you need him to say it again that he claims to be a vanilla townie?
He has.
Just getting the feeling that Whiskers could after all be the better lynch.
And perhaps I will feel stupid but

Unvote

Vote: Whiskers

He then votes that person. Is it not standard practice to make someone roleclaim when they're at L-1? That's all Whiskers was doing, getting a confirmed claim from Johhog since both LOM and Johhog had been pretty unclear about it.

Gone trough Haoalas ISO:

To people strike me as posible candidates for scum.
Hiplop due to the not mentioning of him and VitaminR and the second case:
is Whiskers:
Sorry the whole conversation with Haoala looks very much like teaching their scumbuddy to play better. And that was a clasic vote town, FOS my scumbuddy. Another think is that there were 2 waggons, Haoala did vote Johhog and not Whiskers.

There is the old VC anylisis also. There were 4 players of the lynchwaggon (the dead towny, AD, me and Forehead) Scum is normaly not complete on a misslynch day 1.
This makes Forehead for me another suspect.

Pro Hiplop is that he was pretty anti Haoala, so that get's to mentioned.

So

Vote: Forehead

Gets a couple of suspicions from Haoala's ISO but votes for someone else.

Forehead that is not even remotly what happened. I just tryed to use somethink from an arsenal that many scumhunters used and it pointed in your direction.
Whiskers: Why does it scare you if people don't see you as bad player?????????
I would advise against jailing Demyx again, there is not much pointing at Demyxscum.
I would rather see AD jk someone that he is suspicios of or who he sees in the neutral catagory.
For now

Unvote:

How about a little test, at the moment my vote would go to Hiplop or Whiskers. Why shouldn't I vote you or why should I vote the other one?

Part of the bullshit L-1 wagon on me. Whiskers voted because it was me or her, Demyx for me lurking and Stefan for me being one of the two unconfirmed on a wagon, the other being himself. I'm not sure who the other one was but apart from Demyx, the other two reasons were rubbish and hence why they both unvoted as soon as I pointed out as much.

Demyx: Your points in 861:

5. Okay for that quote I want to scream. I did give you my suspects a while back. I am the only one who did analyse Haoalas Iso completly. Your point is more that you don't like my reasoning.

That's not exactly true is it? Just because you made more out of it than others, and did it more publicly than others doesn't mean no one else looked it up.

There's also the stuff with the copclaim, his plan was alright but was obviously banking on there being one. Or he wanted the cop to claim so he could kill the cop and then AD the next night(if there's enough nights, cba doing the maths for it)

And then there's his attack on me, which obviously I think is rubbish. The vote stuff isn't concrete, not even close. Especially with there being only 9 players, not sure you can use that me and Haoala never voted for the same person when there was other instances of people not being on any of the wagons, Johhog and Haoala being one example I brought up as proof.[/quote]

[forehead7]

Wtf, all I did was multiquote it and it messed up! I'm sure you can all decipher it, it just goes StefanB then I reply, then another one of his quotes then I reply etc.

[forehead7]

Looking at the most recent VC, it says 4 to lynch, is that right or is that a typo? (I thought it was just a majority which is obviously just 3 of 5)

Was more just wondering, because Tajun would need to vote for me if I was to be lynched if it was 4 needed.

[forehead7]

The case on Forehead as I see it, with points made by Forehead, then counters by me (some of the counters are new)

1. Forehead and Haoala have never voted for the same person.

Counter Forehead: Johhog and Haoala have also never voted for the same person.

My Counter to that: Well, Johhog/LoM voted twice. Once for the IC (a waggon some scumplayers wan't join) and on Whiskers when Haoala decieded to lynch Johhog.
Forehead voted on day 1 4 times, not the same. Also Haoala could have voted for LoM or Gingy easyly but didn't. So it's not the same think and at last notworthy.

When I "countered" that, I was just going by the votes that you had posted (the L-1 and lynches), I didn't realise that we'd never voted for the same person at the same time, whilst it might seem scummy I don't think it's indicative. It's too "textbook" scumplay, it's that play that might've been a scumtell at the start of mafia but now it's just as obvious as if two players always voted for the same person. The two scum would have to vary it up, not voting for the same person, or each other, is too obvious when the town finds out one of the scum.

2. On every wagon that got to L-1 or lynch on day 1, there was exactly on of Forehead and Haoala. Never zero never 2 (with on execption but we will take about it later)

Counter Forehead: There was a wagon on Johhog that has no scum on it, your theory is wrong.

My counter: It's debatable if that was the case. The waggon hat no scum on it, if my theory is correct, when it first reached L-1, but it was still the same waggon when it was a hammer, and there was scum (Haoala) on it. My unvote and the vote from Whiskers and Haoala didn't destroy that waggon.
And it bulded, while Forehead was pushing the Whiskerswagon and Haoala was busy catching up, so understandable if scum missed it.
Also Haoala was playing for a sanctioned hammer and so beeing of the waggon was a good place at this time.

Sorta of the same answer as above, regarding us not being on the same wagon. When Johhog got lynched, I didn't think he was scum. I was after LOM, no point trying to deny that, but that's because he was acting very differently to normal. Once Johhog got replaced in, I felt the slot changed and Johhog felt a lot better to me. If I really was scum then I could've still manipulated the wagon so that I could've voted earlier, before Haoala hammered. Something like that I'll go back to Whiskers on the next day after Johhog's being lynched or better to lynch someone questionable than no lynch etc.

3. He is lurkish has the last post of all players. (Difficult to read is a goal of scum)
Counter from Tajun: But he was there in the important times.
Counter me: Could be smart scumplay.

Could also be the "disinterested townie", which seems to be the consensus. Although I haven't posted that much, I have been checking in. The second prod wasn't actually necessary as I had checked the thread since my last post, I just hadn't posted because there was nothing to say really. I've only been away when I got the first prod, that was when I sorta forgot about the game. Most of the "lurking" was because I didn't really have anything to add. I find being powerless in a small game quite difficult to scumhunt. If I'm being honest, some of the time I might see a case or a suspicion, and I like it and I'll take it and run with it, building the case up a bit. That's quite difficult in a small game.

4. His reaction to the Demyx-Johhogfight. He build a case on it, that they could be scum because of it. Later he says it is much substance in it. If there wasn't much substance in it, why did his whole reads build on it?

I didn't think either was scum. It was just a note. Just like Demyx being JK's when there was no NK on day 1 is a note. It probably doesn't mean anything, but it's something to remember if either do start to look scummy.

5. He couldn't read Tajun, me or Haoala on day 1. Having a nullread on Haoala is of course not bad for scum, but his reason for having nullreads on Tajun or me are contridictions. Was it

because we two weren't posting

or were the post difficult to read. Truth does only have one, a lye can be multible.

I was probably getting mixed up. It was a while ago when I posted it, never mind just now. If Haoala and Tajun hadn't been killed/cleared I probably wouldn't be any closer to a read just now.

6. Him trying to clear himself after Johhogs death, while he wasn't on the waggon for half of the day. Trying to be clear and not accused speaks more of mafia then town.

When? Was that the quote about him flipping town and me looking bad because of LOM? That was meant in jest. I only made one post between Johhog's lynch and Haoala's modkill. It was at the stage that I was starting to lose interest.

7. His reaction to Haoalas modkill still looks strange to me. I think that's how a scumpartner would react to it.

That is the case shortly, the meat of it. (Left out one or 2 points, that weren't that strong). Sorry my internet problem on Mo-Fr should get nonexistend soon and my aunt was visiting us, so this weekend was not good for playing mafia.

I'm not sure how it is scummy. All I said was that we don't want to win that way but it's obviously good. Do you want to win by a technicality? I don't. I'd rather win by one of us building a really good case on the two scum and they get sussed out.

Your reaction, IMO, is more scummy. You ISO the dead mafia and produce two suspects, Hiplop and Whiskers, but you vote me because scum are usually on a mislynch wagon. Lets ignore the evidence you thought you had on the other two but vote for someone just because they were on a wagon, eh?

[forehead7]

This thread took off during the weekend, I'll be back today with my thoughts

I'd think weekends would be slower.

Deadline's, what, Friday?

Obviously if it's three then it's pretty much between who Hiplop and Demyx vote, assuming Tajun doesn't change his vote. I believe you are both suspecting me(Hiplop is at least). Maybe you should both both your reasons and I'll see if I can help ease your suspicions. Maybe do the same for Stefan(if he's your second suspect).

[forehead7]

Forehead: When playing mafia, do you get more into the game when you're under fire? Can you link to some of your off-site games that proves this (when you're town, and maybe one when you're mafia).

TBH, my activity doesn't usually change. It's normally pretty high on the whole, I'm not sure why it's low in this game. Probably a mix between the long deadlines and the fact I don't check the forum that much. Because the other two are more like message boards with mafia games as a side part of it so I'm checking it to post about other things (football, wrestling, tv shows and games) then I will look into the game when I'm on.

http://theviewaskewboard.com/showthread ... post401177 This is a Star Trek game I was village in. I've linked it to the start of day 1 when the shit kicked off. I got setup by Spork-girl, who was also village. I think it was because I was looking at my PMs and she saw it and figured I must've been mafia. That's probably the hardest I've fought a lynch, was my 4th game so I was more eager to live back then.

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index ... __st__1225 This is probably the best example of me being defensive as mafia, in those games you aren't allowed to reveal your roles and one of the people with information on me basically revealed his role so I was pretty pissed off that he'd cheated to get me (and another mafia) killed.

[forehead7]

Mostly for me the Forehead regarding LoM was this:

Uh oh, god he better flip scum or I'm dead.

and later:

No I said I hope he flips scum, as it would lay more credence to my "tunneling" of LOM. If Johhog flips town then I was going after a town which doesn't look good.

I did say it in a tongue and cheek sense though, nice of you to try and twist it though.

And remember that Forehead last beeing on LoM was (okay that is from rememberence) about half the game ago. Also keep in mind that Forehead wasn't exactly pushing a policitylynch. He was pushing a "I know this guy he is playing completly different than he played before" lynch (not quote but that is how I remembered it)

Sorry should perhaps look more after Hiplop. (If Forehead is not scum he becomes the most logical choice) I just can't get the modkill out of my head. It was so stupid and I don't think that he would be part of it. (Sorry I will ask the partner in aftergame what went trough his mind, I just can't get it in my head) The info was pretty obvious and Haoala was not in that much danger, when he posted it.

I'm not sure what's wrong with any of the first part.

Also, it doesn't matter who's the other scum partner, presumably they didn't know about Haoala's intention to cheat. It would've been Haoala's decision or the other person would've been mod-killed as well.

[forehead7]

About my change on the LOM/Johhog slot, I did have suspicions about LOM because of his change in playstyle. When Johhog swapped in, he didn't seem anywhere near as scummy as LOM did/was, which was evident in the fact I didn't vote for him(Johhog). It was more a matter that the content didn't seem scummy than I couldn't really read him.


The point about the mod-killing was that I don't think one of the scums "cheating"(only putting it in quotes cause we don't know what exactly happened) indicates that Hiplop is less likely be the partner. I can't for one second believe that it would've been a collective decision to cheat, it definitely seems like it was Haoala's decision to try and outsmart the mod(lesson for everyone, it can't be done :p ) and wasn't the other person's choice either.

[forehead7]

alright, we need to get to business.

who are we lynching? A no lynch would be pretty bad here, (assuming on town) with a lynch tomorrow we go into 3 player lylo, (LYnch LOse) 2 townies and a scum. If we no-lynch, we go to 4 player with 1 scum in there. We lynch wrong there, scum kills at night wins

Really is lynch is good just for Process of Elimination

Demyx said she was probably gonna hammer Stefan, unless you can provide further evidence for me(or anyone else) or you hammer him yourself then I think that's where we're going.

I agree that we definitely need to lynch someone, it's better to lynch an unconfirmed townie than not lynch, obviously. So much so that if you aren't convinced Stefan is town(over myself) and Demyx doesn't turn up at the deadline then I'll hammer myself.

[forehead7]

Oh balls. I'm not convinced there's enough of a case of Demyx or Hiplop to sway either's opinion. Thorough re-reads will have to take place next week.

[forehead7]

Oh balls. I'm not convinced there's enough of a case of Demyx or Hiplop to sway either's opinion. Thorough re-reads will have to take place next week.

Interesting post. You should be interested who is scum, not who you can get lynched as town. Tomorrow is the last day.

It was more because I'm not sure who the scum is out of the two of them. Neither seem scum to me A testament to how well they've (the scum) played I guess.

[forehead7]

Yeah, not surprising at all.

I'm pretty ill atm so I'm not at university so I should be able to do some reading back. Hopefully at least.

[forehead7]

Not going to lie, i really am leaning to it being forehead, but im definitely open to what he has to ssy,this moment is important,and we need to take it slow

I totally know how you're feeling. And I'd probably feel the same way if I was either of you. Before I read back, I'd say you(Hiplop) seem most scummy to me. But that's more of a process of elimination rather than you doing anything scummy. I just can't see Demyx being the remaining member. But whichever one of you it is has played a blinder and are to be commended.

I'll try and make some points on both of you and try to get some discussion going. I'll certainly do my best to be around and reply to any points and whatnot so we can thrash this day out fully.

[forehead7]

Alright! pretty much waiting on forehead right now :\

Sorry, we had a power cut earlier and I was in the middle of reading back.

The case on Hiplop is pretty poor, even I'll admit that.

Posts read which include Johhog and Demyx as the two potential scum members (also has Tajun, Haoala and myself as null) He then backs off on Demyx in his next post. He then pushed for Johhog's lynch. Obviously has one of the scum as null, reasonably safe and I find that's usually where the scum post each other in their reads. Too obviously to have them as 100% either town or scum. Demyx didn't seem scummy to me and his reasons were all opinion based, all Demyx's reasons Hiplop disagreed with and that was his reason for suspecting Demyx. He didn't really factor in LOM's involvement in the slot, it was all Johhog. I guess this is a difference of opinion but I felt the other way(LOM felt scummy but Johhog felt less so IMO)

After the flip he then throws out the option that Demyx could be scum based on the JK and failed NK. No one bites so he quietly reels it back in. Also posts:

If your death is beneficial to the town; you're scum. It's honestly the only way it is. Stop AtE. If I didn't think you were town, I'd be dropping a large hammer on you right now.

Just something I noticed, not necessarily scummy but certainly isn't true. If someone claims to be the cop and then says that he has info that someone is scum then their death would be beneficial to the town as he'd condemn someone(similar idea if he had info on a towner)

Throws in an extra bit of Demyx suspicion at #710(Iso #47), says she lost town points but is still a town read. Just a little something, another wee prod at a possible Demyx lynch but still covering himself.

At around the ISO #98 he started to post how he felt StefanB was town. This could be because he knew that there was about a 45% chance he'd get lynched(I say 45 because I'd say me and him were even with the other 10 being split between Hiplop and Demyx) He might want to throw out a truth about one of the townies under fire so that if he does get killed then it makes Hiplop look better.

------
That's about all I got on Hiplop. I'm not sure that'd be enough to even convince me. I'll have a look at Demyx, probably tomorrow. You can defend that if you want Hiplop.

[forehead7]

Just something I noticed, not necessarily scummy but certainly isn't true. If someone claims to be the cop and then says that he has info that someone is scum then their death would be beneficial to the town as he'd condemn someone(similar idea if he had info on a towner)

But then you lose the cop, you would gain the same info by lynching the guiltied player, so again its not beneficial!

Well he could have info on one scum and one townie, that'd be a useful. It was more a point that I didn't think that to be true(your initial statement)

Obviously has one of the scum as null, reasonably safe and I find that's usually where the scum post each other in their reads.

Pretty sure EVERYONE had a null-read on haoala. He didn't do all that much to warrant a substancial read.

That's fine. I was more doing your ISO with the view that you were scum. I know that might seem scummy but I'm just trying my best to figure out which one of you is the final mafioso.

Demyx didn't seem scummy to me and his reasons were all opinion based, all Demyx's reasons Hiplop disagreed with and that was his reason for suspecting Demyx. He didn't really factor in LOM's involvement in the slot, it was all Johhog. I guess this is a difference of opinion but I felt the other way(LOM felt scummy but Johhog felt less so IMO)

Not sure what you mean in the first part :\ but second, yeah I honestly didnt think much about LOM - his behavior made sense from both alignments, wheras johhog felt scum

You(Hiplop) gave reasons why you though Demyx was a scummy. They were mostly opinions, stuff like disagreeing on the policy lynch etc. I know it was early but it's a weak reason to go after someone IMO. And it really was just an opinion. It just seemed a bit like you were trying your best to try and put more weight behind your subtle push for Demyx's lynch.

After the flip he then throws out the option that Demyx could be scum based on the JK and failed NK. No one bites so he quietly reels it back in. Also posts:

Sort of have to think of all options - she either got NK'd, or she is scum. I needed everyone to know what was going down!

Yeah, I can see that since you're the IC. Still would make sense if you were the scum.

At around the ISO #98 he started to post how he felt StefanB was town. This could be because he knew that there was about a 45% chance he'd get lynched(I say 45 because I'd say me and him were even with the other 10 being split between Hiplop and Demyx) He might want to throw out a truth about one of the townies under fire so that if he does get killed then it makes Hiplop look better.

Or you know, I thought he was town

[/quote]

Again, I went through your ISO with the opinion that you were scum, trying to find errors in your play.

Don't worry though, I'll do the same to Demyx when I ISO her.

[forehead7]

Ok, shit. I have nothing on Demyx. Apart from the no nightkill thing, I can't see anything that points to her being mafia.

It must be Hiplop then.

TBH, I don't see the point in dragging this out too much.

VOTE: Hiplop

(apologies if that didn't work, I'm trying out the voting tags)

Unless either of you have some questions then I think you two should vote for whom you think is the remaining mafia and we'll end this.

[forehead7]

Why are you wanting to end the game quickly,forehead?

I figured that was the smart thing to do.

I've made my case on you, as poor as it is and I don't think there's a case to be made for Demyx. This game is really dragging on now and I don't see the need to prolong the inevitable lynch of myself, as much as it pains me to say, I don't think I can convince either of you that I'm not mafia

[forehead7]

Hiplop, you've been sussed. You're the last mafia. I know that I'm not and if Demyx was then she would've seen the chance to hammer me as soon as she saw I was at L-1.

I don't mind if Demyx does hammer me, but at least I'll be safe in the knowledge that I found you out

[forehead7]

Yeah, either Demyx is being really cruel as scum, or you're the scum. Gotta say, you did do pretty well yesterday at pushing the blame onto stefanB. We'll talk more at endgame, but I am impressed by your scum game!

Its up to you demyx, cmon

Even if I was scum, I've played badly. But I'm not, I've just played terribly as a townie here, as I do look the most scummy. That's the reason why I don't mind Demyx just coming in and hammering me to end this.

I just wanted it down on paper(figuratively)before the endgame reveals your role. Just as a personal win, it'll be the only one I get in this game.

[forehead7]

its just a game demyx ! It is forehead, but i wont be mad if you vote me; it is indeed a VERY hard choice - but just think; we've been sort of trying to get him dead all game: theres gotta be a reason, yet somehow he keeps managing to weasel through!

Yeah, but equally by that, there has to be a reason why I I keep "managing to weasel through". It's because I'm not the final mafia member, you are.

Read over all the arguments again, I think I have to go with Forehead. It's the whole active lurking thing mainly, and my case on Hiplop is not great. I will flip if Hiplop is scum, but I have to make a decision.

I will likely hammer Forehead today. Any final thoughts?

I don't mind, if you've got personal stuff then it's ok. Just hammer me, I'd rather end the game now than let it drag on. I won't blame you for Hiplop's win.

[forehead7]

look at other games; usually the one who always manages to just hang on is scum (Brightest day mafia, mini normal #x [cant remember but i was in it with player named BECK] tv mafia, etc)

Well I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule

[forehead7]

its just a game demyx ! It is forehead, but i wont be mad if you vote me; it is indeed a VERY hard choice - but just think; we've been sort of trying to get him dead all game: theres gotta be a reason, yet somehow he keeps managing to weasel through!

You know, this isn't very good reasoning :p

just getting kinda tired of this game

I agree wit Hiplop, it's not an allegiancy thing, it's more just a wanting for the game to end.

Just hammer me Demyx, I won't hold it against you. If the village lose then it's my fault for coming across so scummy not your fault for voting me.

[forehead7]

I was kind of hoping one of you would say something to help me decide.

I don't really know how to respond to this If you're really unsure then just take a random stab at one of us, 50/50 is a pretty decent chance of killing scum. Certainly better than the chance of randomly shooting one at the start!

[forehead7]

yeah, really i have no problem if you hammer me anymore, it sucks that after 3 months we'd lose but, if you're really that unsure feel free :\

Oh you and your mindgames.

CM Punk is not impressed.

[forehead7]

Shit, just realised the deadline is ~2 days and 8 hours Completely forgot there'd be one

[forehead7]

Well done Hiplop, you've won.

[forehead7]

*facepalm* Guess this is one of those times when I should have gone with gut instead of logic. Apologies, all.

TBH, I'm surprised I last as long as I did I expected to die yesterday instead of Stefan and then was sure that as soon as the day started you'd both just vote me there and then. It was close though, just a shame we didn't have a doctor or cop, always gonna be more difficult with just the one PR.

[forehead7]

I went through the thread looking for stuff but couldn't dig up anything new that I hadn't already dissected by Day Three. And my heart/swirling void wasn't really in it since IRL got in the way. Sorry for the unjust killing.

It wasn't unjust, I was surprised you were even considering Hiplop, lol. I don't blame you for hammering me, I certainly looked pretty bad which is on me. I guess it might've been different if I hadn't went AWOL, then I might not have looked so bad. Tis a shame but I can understand why I died.

[forehead7]

I have to say that Hiplop did a fine job. Certainly fooled me.

Yeah this is it. Going into this last day I really couldn't have said with even 75% certainly which one of you were the scum. A read through on both of you gave slightly more evidence that Hiplop was scum and then when you didn't hammer either of us as soon as you checked in I knew you wouldn't have been the scum as all your hard work in coming across as town would've been wasted had you not just claimed victory right there and then.

Kudos to you both, you both played well in this game. Neither coming off very scummy(to me at least) which is what your jobs were.

[forehead7]

3 to Lynch.

.

Wait, what? Is it not two? Or else you may as well call it because Hiplop's never gonna vote himself.

[forehead7]

Disregard that, didn't realise there was another page.

[forehead7]

heh This game was awesome, had so much fun (imo I played pretty well) I'll post thoughts on everyone a little later (pretty busy atm) but glad to say I won, I got pretty lucky

Yeah you did well, really well. Although it became obvious to me that you were the scum I still couldn't dig up enough evidence

I'm not too pissed that we lost, I had resigned myself to it when we entered the last day. Was a little tighter than I thought though.

[forehead7]

Forehead: Will you play another game on this site? I promise you that it's not normal for games of this size to take this long time, if you look at the forum this was pretty much the oldest one in play and some games who started at the same time as this one ended two months ago.

I've already "/in"ed for another newbie game. I've also noticed that the normal games are two weeks, that's certainly more appealing. Is there any games that have deadlines of a week? That'd be perfect, well for non-marathon games.

I wouldn't say that Forehead was most at fault for the loss, that honor goes to Hiplops play. And I am much to blaim, I tunnel way to much on Forehead, and I don't know if I would have managed to make a convincing case on him, at the last day. And sorry for the less contrubation on day 3, I was really without internet this time.

Yeah, Hiplop's play won him the game. I was just saying that if I hadn't went AWOL then maybe I wouldn't have looked as scummy, then Demyx might've trusted his gut more since the logic would've been less convincing.

I'm surprised I last as long, tbh, especially when it was you and I left.

[forehead7]

I've already "/in"ed for another newbie game. I've also noticed that the normal games are two weeks, that's certainly more appealing. Is there any games that have deadlines of a week? That'd be perfect, well for non-marathon games.

It's quite common with 10 day deadlines, look around in the different forums and you will find several. I suppose there would be some with week deadlines too, but I think they're more uncommon.

Just PM the mod and ask if he doesn't specify how long the deadlines will be in the sign-up thread/queue thread.

Hmm, 10 days would be better. I'll still play with two weeks, but the small the deadline then the more likely I'm gonna be active the whole time.