Newbie 1123 - Game over!

[Cobblerfone]

/confirm

[Cobblerfone]

@Mod: Can the mafia roleblocker block and kill at the same time? And if so, what happens if the roleblocker blocks the jailkeeper and the jailkeeper blocks the roleblocker? Does the kill go through or not?

I did some research during confirmation. And I have some questions for all of you.

@Arthur: Are you still as good a scumhunter as I read in those two games from 2009? And do you expect to die just as quickly?
@mozamis: Are you going to allow the scum to buddy up to you in this game?
@Amrun: I believe you are officially the player I've played with the most. How are you approaching being an IC now?
@Chickadee: What's your experience with mafia?
@PiggyGal15: What's your experience with mafia?
@homeless: What's your experience with mafia?
@Masterp443: Are you scum?

[Cobblerfone]

I also request to know if anyone is under 18 or has issues with cursing and/or rude humor.

I'm 17. As long as it's within site-rules I'm fine I guess. Though I don't personally curse.

Cobbler: Depending on my mood, I can be a cryptic and/or very aggressive player in normal games. I have decided to be transparent and less aggressive as an IC, but everything else is up in the air as it is my first time.

In general, I want to guide the newbies through the waters of learning to play at MS but not entirely hold their hands. I think sometimes newbie games coddle them so much that they go into shock and flake in their first non-newbie game and that is the opposite of what I want to happen.

A link to a handy playing guide is forthcoming!

Thank you for answering.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobblerfone - I most certainly am not scum. Though I am puzzled as to why you asked PiggyGal15, homeless, and Chickadee (who I believe to be new to Mafia/Mafiascum.net) "What's your experience with mafia?", when you ask me "Are you scum", a question of which you'll surely get a negative response.

Good, good. I love it when people aren't fresh newbies. The reason I picked you instead of the others was arbitrary; you confirmed right above me, you have three numbers in your name, etc. Essentially random.

I, of course, am not new to Mafia games at all, but this is my first Mafiascum.net game. Perhaps your "research" has indicated that I've only made about 4 or so posts on this website, leading you to think I might slip up on your "reaction test". I apologize if you think that I am giving you a scum reading, but that question struck me as peculiar.

I'm glad you answered the question I was going to ask you next. It saves me the trouble of asking and waiting. A reaction test is exactly what is was.

Thereby, I'll use my first FoS on Cobblerfone. Don't take this personally; I will remove my vote when I hear a reply from you.

Typically you use FoS on people you're not voting. I don't take it personally, though your response strikes me as odd. (Though I think I know why. You're reaction testing me, aren't you?) Somewhat defensive but that's null. I see you use your vote as a way to add pressure, yes?

Do you have any questions for me?

[Cobblerfone]

What is your favorite alignment, and why?

That's a very tough question. I have two completed games on this site as town plus a couple others off-site. And I have one completed game as scum. It was thrilling deceiving people, and competing with that hydra, but ended a bit short and the game ended up nearly mountainous anyway so in retrospect I count it as an unfair victory. As town, even though I've only found one scum on my own (on this site anyway, and it was post-mortem), I think I like watching the more experienced scumhunters do their thing, and I'm really trying to improve my town game. Plus there's the fact that town is harder to win as and has more variety in terms of power roles (I think cop is my favorite. I've been it off-site two times and both times I found scum on the first try). So, I guess Town is my favorite alignment. How about you?

@Amrun: I'll let Masterp answer your question, but why didn't you call me out for asking personalized questions?

@ Cobblers : ah, I did indeed get "buddied" in my last completed game by scum which was galling Yep, it's certainly something to watch out for. Though as I always say, I'll defend people if I think they are town.

This seems somewhat stilted. Particularly the second sentence. Though I'll admit I only read part of day one and the post-game of that last game. So I'll recheck your meta to get a proper feel for it.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler, you seem to have forgotten to ask me a question. Unless you didn't.

I'm not sure how that happened. Okay then, what's your experience with mafia?

*notes to self, omitting a person from a list of questions may be of use in the future. Somehow.*

[Cobblerfone]

Sorry, I stuffed the build up, the Mafia Roleblocker is actually the Mafia Role Cop. Making appropriate changes to posts now.

Hmm...

I'll just throw in the little tidbit that had I been scum I probably would've posted the exact same question at you to get town points through the appearance of ignorance.

[Cobblerfone]

er hang on I'm confused. You DID ask the mod the q. about roleblocker/jailkeeper. So what do you mean Cobblers?

The mafia would know there wasn't a roleblocker. Or, they might've thought there was if they got sent the PMs.

I just keep breaking it don't I?

RAuRGh.

[Cobblerfone]

ah hang on. You're basically saying "Obviously, I was town asking that question, but of course I could have been scum trying to earn towny points".
but why did you say it? Seems like obfuscation.

I didn't want to break the game. Although, it seems people think I'm more suspicious now. So I guess I didn't.

Yay.

[Cobblerfone]

Slipped what?

[Cobblerfone]

It is odd that u asked the question in the first place. I had not even noticed the Mod had made a mistake. You did, becuase you were checking your role pm with p1.

Huh? No I noticed there was a roleblocker instead of a Role Cop and thought, "Oh, did they finally find a solution for the roleblocker vs roleblocker scenario?"

[Cobblerfone]

How did you know that scum wouldn't have asked that question because they got a rolecop pm?

I said that if I were scum I might have.

Anywho, it was an honest question that I asked to find out what would happen in the roleblocker versus roleblocker scenario since it's somewhat controversial.

[Cobblerfone]

Since I got to L-1 I feel now is the appropiate time to say that you should always ask for a person to claim their role before placing the lynching vote on them.

This self-serving but accurate advice brought to you by Hangman-O's. They're to die for!

@Ms. Piggy, you said you read some games, correct? Were they on mafiascum?

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: Masterp

I'm more concerned about his being so okay about mislynching. We only get two unless a jailkeeper/doc gets lucky.

yes, it's my first time, and I hope you don't mind if I ask some questions here and there, but other than that, I'm good on my own (I also have stalked some other games before)

Were they mafiascum games, on some other site, or in real life?

[Cobblerfone]

...What?

We have a mislynch, there is no denying it. What everyone thinks I am suspicious for is that I "implied" that lynching Piggy was a mislynch. Do you even know what you are saying, or are you just sheeping the town?

What we have here is a failure to communicate. You are using "mislynch" in the sense of, "we have a spare lynch," Piggy was using it in the sense of "Lynching a town-aligned player."

Question - if there's a detective, would they have already gotten their answer from the MOD, or do they get it later on?

These seems town within the context of what she posted later.

[Cobblerfone]

My eyebrow raises even higher. ',=/

[Cobblerfone]

I have a question, was Chickadee actually lurking (meaning you saw her name in the "WHO IS ONLINE" list.) or is it for not posting?

[Cobblerfone]

(Random note: I had a dream last night that I woke up, looked at the forum, and there were, like, eight votes on me during my sleep. Ha ha. This game is already affecting my personal life.) ; )

I wonder if this was an effect of a guilty conscience...

@Cobblerfone : Also, what does't thou raise thine eyebrow for'?

I don't like how safe noraa, amrun, and mozamis are; it seems that they are coming off as (don't get me wrong here, I'm not accusing them of anything) *too* safe.

This is exactly the type of situation I have been trying to avoid all game, having "super" trustworthy pro-town players that everyone will fall back onto. For example, mozamis voted for Cobblerfone here. Soon after that, Amrun follows suit.

Now, I'm not saying this is a scumtell, but it appears to me that some fishy behaviour is taking place here.

This. In the second part I bolded (and sectioned off), it sounds like

he's

"playing it safe" by casting suspicion on a third of the roster while saying at the same time "but this doesn't necessarily mean they're scum". Also, while I was paranoid about scum leading the game in my first game here but the first bolded part doesn't even describe what he was talking about. Amrun wasn't sheeping or relying on mozamis for her vote.

[Cobblerfone]

? And really, wouldn't the scum try and make everyone suspicious of the most inexperienced player like you did? (They certainly are easy enough to lynch off if they don't think carefully.) Because it was your comments that pointed everyone towards me as being scum (besides homeless who thought I was scum for jumping on the bandwagon, but I cleared that up before you commented).

@Both of you: Don't get caught in a WIFOM trap.

[Cobblerfone]

Full discloser : As my rankings show, MasterP is the person who is ranking highest on my MafiaRadar, so I may have some bias in my opinion. Like I said, I am waiting to hear from MasterP before I cast any votes, but I don't personally think I will wait until Amrum comes back to hold off a vote if I feel a strong enough reason to vote for MasterP (or anyone for that matter, not just MasterP).

What bias? Are you saying that you're basing your opinions off of your rankings rather than the other way around?

I assure you I am not scum, though the only way I could possibly benefit the town would be voting.

If you're claiming to be a regular townie it's typically not wise to claim unless absolutely necessary since it "narrows down the list" of possible people who are power roles for the mafia.

I'm not quite done reading through yet, but Cobbler is seeming very suspicious, because they're being somewhat of a power role in terms of leading the game. They seem to have been pinning things on people, in a way that doesn't so much come off as getting to know your fellow players.

'round here "power role" usually refers to things like cop, doctor, jailkeeper, etc. You also don't have to use singular they with me, "he" sounds much better. (I had to think a bit to understand your post.) By "pinning things on people" do you mean my questions for starting the game that I used to help start up my reads?

[Cobblerfone]

To be fair this game's probably relatively slow. But on the other hand, she's the IC in this one. I had a feeling about Amrun, but as far as I know it's just my IC jitters. (My first game's IC was scum you see.) However, I do not agree about the misrepresentation and I don't think it makes her suspicious enough to be lynched. I would like to hear what she has to say about your case though.

[Cobblerfone]

Hmm... She has made quite a few posts. Though most of them are brief.

[Cobblerfone]

Okay I'll bite.

VOTE: Amrun

[Cobblerfone]

I wouldn't say lynch until at least after she's posted again.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler: Naturally it is my wish that you change your vote back to Masterp, and indeed I wish I could have posted this all yesterday to convince you so before you switched, but if you still feel you need to get an explanation from Amrun first, that's understandable.

My main suspect is still Masterp and if he gets up to L-1 before Amrun returns I'll ask for a claim and hammer, depending on how long it's been. I'm just leaving my vote on Amrun as an incentive to post here.

[Cobblerfone]

Sorry Amrun.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: MasterP

That's L-1. If anyone wants to hammer ask for Masterp to claim and let him do so before voting.

[Cobblerfone]

You've almost got it. Claims that don't end in a lynch are bad for a town because they give scum information, generally speaking. However, town doesn't want to accidentally lynch a role that can confirm itself (like a vigilante can confirm himself by shooting). Claims are a way to balance that.

Hmm? Is that the current method/theory/way of thinking? Because I was thinking that since this is a semi-open game that if someone claims a power role we can ask for counter claims and if there aren't any then we don't lynch them. (But we can still leave on eye on them, and if they don't die and another power role does, then any other power role could counterclaim them.) On the other hand there is the chance there's only one power role but- Hmm. Maybe we should come up with some sort of plan through consensus? Or should we just cross that bridge when we get there?

[Cobblerfone]

scummy of cobblerfone to put master at L-1. We ARE NO WHERE NEAR READY FOR A LYNCH.
And yes, I'm quoting my (town) IC from my last game. Surprising that Amrun hasn't said that.
Amrun and Cobblerfone as scum team anyone?
Anyway someone PLEASE UNVOTE master.

When will we be ready? What makes us ready or not ready? What would you have us do to make us ready? Would you have us post lists of reads? I think we have enough to go off of for most of the players if we do end up lynching now (I'd use PoE on any others). But keep in mind that just because he's at L-1 doesn't mean he will be lynched any time soon.

Could you have sat on the fence any more than this? So you dont think Amrun is scum now?
And I would like a good explanation as to why you put Master at L-1 without any reason.

I voted her because she wasn't posting in this game despite posting in others which was a little suspicious and worthy of pressuring. She's posted now.
I was voting Master before and since I no longer have reason to vote Amrun I don't see why I shouldn't vote Masterp, my actual suspect. Now this is getting into playstyle meta-territory but I see no reason why I should treat a vote that puts someone at L-1 different than any other vote (besides a hammer) if I think they're scum. Now, if it was as simple as wanting to pressure Masterp I wouldn't have put him at L-1.

please don't let Cobbler's discussion of theory with Amrun fool you into thinking they are scum hunting.

Never said I was. I was asking her a theory-question and she answered as IC's are supposed to.

[Cobblerfone]

Just as an aside to discuss theory: I don't think there's much good in pressuring a person to claim. If they happen to claim all on their own with no pressure, then fine. But in the case of asking for a claim, the whole reason you're looking for a claim in the first place is because you think they're scum. And THEY are claiming to save their ass. Can you see the faulty logic in even giving a shit what they claim?

Dude it's a semi-open game. a person claims because a majority of the players find that person scum. The reason claims exist as a concept though is to avoid lynching power roles (especially in a semi-open game like this). You need to allow for counter-claims.

[Cobblerfone]

Scum would almost certainly have hammered by now, or at least tried to get a counter wagon going.

Too many problems with that theory: MasterP could be scum and his partner is bussing already, or MasterP isn't scum and the mafia are already voting for him, or the mafia don't want to associate with the lynch, or they simply don't want to quickhammer as that's an obvious anti-town type move.

[Cobblerfone]

I'd rather keep the scum guessing. But I agree with Dent for the most part (including you being town). I do have a list though. One for if Masterp is mafia, one for if Masterp is town.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler : Could you clarify what you agree with me about (for the most part), just so I know where we are think together? It is a little pet peeve of mine for people to say they agree for the most part, but then don't clarify the "most part." (I'm not taking this as scummy, it just bothers me.) ; )

Well, mozamis' paranoia made me think he was town. And your logic about the possible scum-partners being people who aren't associating with Masterp at all seemed right, but I didn't think of it until I read it. If Masterp flipped scum I was going to take another look at mozamis, but your theory seems more likely than mozamis being a defending partner since it would be pretty obvious.

[Cobblerfone]

so Cobbler, you think I am town and Master is scum?
Assuming Master flips town, which seems likely, what are we to make of you putting him at L-1 without good reason?
If you could answer both questions that would be great

I've answered the second. The only vote that's special to me is the hammer.

"mozamis paranoia" nice pro town thing to say Remember peeps, if you question or suspect people in this game, you are paranoid!

No, you're paranoid because you're afraid of a quickhammer, when with all the warnings it's highly unlikely. And if you're afraid of a scum-quickhammer, well then, we would find scum, yay!

What the...? What was that intended to be? This is highly scummy imo - preemptively announcing a hammer while the target isn't even near L-1 yet! This doesn't sit well with me. Is this telling your scumpartner to drive the wagon forward? Or did you try to sound confident beforehand if you find yourself in the need to bus your scumpartner? And then you suddenly change your opinion out of the blue and set Masterp to L-1 and also out of someone else voting along? Also the L-1 vote is scummy itself.
VOTE: Cobblerfone

Change my opinion out of the blue? Amrun posted. My vote's work was finished. (Though, I'm not sure how much work it actually did.) Also, which is it, is Masterp town or is Masterp my scumpartner? If you're going to say I'm scum for something please make up your mind about which scenario you're using, because it sounds like you've already made up your mind about me and are twisting the evidence to fit whatever case you want to make. (Though, I admit I also often think through multiple possibilities.)

Why is an L-1 vote scummy when I was voting him before hand? If anything since I had already voted for him and announced him as my prime suspect, wouldn't the vote before mine be suspicious? (If Masterp is town it is. If he's scum it's not.)

and seeing as: 1) Eijo voted for Cobbler, so chance of actually getting a counter wagon to Master going
2)he'll be easier to lynch (looks scummier, less experienced) than Amrun,

This looks like a scum mindset to me. Why are you concerned about finding the easier lynches? Usually scum are more concerned about how easy or hard a person is to lynch. Did I read you as town too soon?

[Cobblerfone]

It is called compromising, if you perceive 2 people as scummy you might consider placing your vote on the one where you're not alone with your case.

It's just the wording he used unsettled me. He used "easier lynch" instead of "scummier player". Yes he did say I was scummy, but I don't really see why it matters that I'm easier especially since I'm apparently only easier by one vote so far.

It's too early to lock people into scumteams - both situations I outlined are not good for you. Also what is your vote doing on Amrun if you want Masterp lynched?

There's more than two situations. I know this because the situation is that I am town and suspect Masterp. My announcement was to attempt to leave pressure on both of them. Since I had already voted Masterp, I felt that out of the two, pressuring Amrun would need the vote more. Especially since the point of pressuring her was to get her to post in this game while pressuring Masterp was to get him to slip.

[Cobblerfone]

Yes, the long version is: my annoucement was to prevent pressure from being taken off of him so that if someone voted for him he might post to defend himself and hopefully slip.

I'm going to research noraaa now, be right back.

[Cobblerfone]

So I experienced a little deja vu because apparently I did research noraaa during confirmation. But I didn't have any notes. odd.

A note on the mention by mozamis that I've never voted- I like to be careful with my vote.

Your other game backs this up. But I do have a question for you: would you "random" vote in a Random Voting Stage? I didn't see one in your ISO in the other game so I was wondering how "careful" you would be in this hypothetical scenario.

Also to be perfectly clear, because your latest post seemed a bit wishy-washy, your main suspect is mozamis, yes?

[Cobblerfone]

@cobbler- I'm pretty sure I rvs in the last game. It's my general understanding that it's something that happens in most every game, and is expected to get the ball rolling. If I'm wrong I'd really like to know before I play more games.

The second sentence is correct. As for the first sentence, I don't know but it doesn't matter. You didn't respond in the way I was looking for. Which is- good I guess.

Hello Muffin Man good to see a lot of content from you. PLEASE NO ONE HAMMER. I can see Dent being annoyed at Muffin's defence/attacks, but this is no time for an OMGUS vote.

Here, I'll make it impossible: (or harder at least)

UNVOTE: zMuffinMan

Muffin Man makes good sense. Homeless and Piggy are the people that I was most suspicious of if Masterp flipped town. (Of course, I can't prove it now. Perhaps I should go back to posting reads?)

It's interesting. Muffin Man exudes towniness, but Masterp seemed to exude scumminess. Hmm. I do have a question for zMM, why aren't you voting yet?

[Cobblerfone]

For the record, he doesn't even have a legitimate reason to be on my wagon. Do you even know why he's voting for me? Yeah, neither do I. I looked for the reason in his ISO, and it's.... because he had an epiphane that mozamis is scum... ... ... ...

Check his ISO #7. I'd explain his epiphany but I'd rather he do that. It works logically IMO. But then again being logical is neither a townish nor scummy. I do disagree that scum HAVE to be on a wagon though. In my scum game a wagon got up to L-1 quickly and the only scum-vote on it was an RVS vote. Most of the others were self-admitted sheep. I'm not saying it's unlikely that there's a scum on this wagon, but an all-town wagon is possible. Especially if you are scum. And after checking some of your points it does make me doubt you again. But like I said, logic is neither scummy nor townish.

[Cobblerfone]

I actually had some doubt about the mozamis case noraaa presented too - especially the first points seem kinda weak, but the last 3 points have some reasoning behind them.

But what really did cut it for me was mozamis' reaction to the case and how he is responding now that things don't go in his favor.

Did you forget your question to piggy? Do you have any response to it?

[Cobblerfone]

Gut's telling me mozamis is town.

The reason behind my question was to get her to take a stance, because she was only asking questions without telling us her thoughts on mozamis until now. So her answer is sufficient for me.

Alright. Then I guess I'll go ahead with my follow up.

@Eijo - I think at least one of them is scum, if not both. When it was Masterp, I really couldn't see them being a scum team. Now, it's not that hard.

What about their interactions have determined that they

can

be a scum team that's different from when it was masterp?

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler - when it was Masterp, mozamis was being way too over the top "Don't vote!" but now that they've distanced themselves, it seems like they did all of it on purpose, it's also slightly weird that...

Okay then.

Yet your vote is still on him, and you keep getting us all to vote either Muffin or Amrun.

The laughing emoticon clearly indicates sarcasm.

I read a scum and town muffinman ISO. (He replaced in the town one.) And I have to say, I am impressed. I actually wouldn't mind sheeping him today. I'll have to doublecheck Dent tomorrow first though.

[Cobblerfone]

Sorry I didn't post yesterday, my laptop sort of puted itself out halfway through the day and I still don't know why. It's working now though.

Anyway, after a read of Arthur's ISO the details of his ISO have convinced me he's town.

An Amrun lynch is one I'm comfortable with.

VOTE: Amrun

[Cobblerfone]

So Cobbler, why are you voting for Amrun? You haven't exactly given any reasons, this time, or last time, besides the fact that other people are voting for her.

Amrun doesn't really seem to be acting the same way as in our latest shared game (Speed Mafia). She's explained it as she's trying to be more "open", but I'm not really seeing it. The only other viable lynches (MuffinMan and mozamis) are more or less, townreads of mine now.

I might need to reread Speed Mafia, but yeah, she's been kind pinging the edges of my scumdar and I have no real strong scum reads right now. I have 3-4 town ones though. You (your response to my follow-up put you as town), Dent, mozamis, and MuffinMan.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobbler, I didn't go into excessive talk of theory in Speed Mafia, no. Shocker, right?

Go ahead and compare. It's not different as far as I can recall, besides swapping for a position of authority.

Comparing.

Eh, it must be the authority thing that's bugging me and making me read you in a different voice. But that you say "it's not different as far as I can recall" sounds artificial. It's a stretch I guess, but like I said, I don't have any more strong scumreads. Hey Amrun, do you have an opinion on who's town? I mean, you think one of mozamis and zMM is scum and one is town, but more generally who do you think is town?

what do you think of mozamis?

Acting up, but probtown.

[Cobblerfone]

So you're an alt, Big Sleep? Or you did heavy reading or you play a lot off-site?

[Cobblerfone]

@Piggy: Why do you think that if one of them is the scum the other is also scum?

UNVOTE:

We might as well just sort this all out before voting. I'm fine either way I guess. noraaa and eijo too I suppose, they're all null reads. If I had to pick one, it'd probably be noraaa.

[Cobblerfone]

Sure.

VOTE: homeless

If he gets replaced we get more time. But after the game where I got lynched I'm not even sure if that's a good thing anymore. Still, it'll give the replacement plenty of time to claim.

[Cobblerfone]

After rereading the start of the game, particularly homeless' first real game post where he calls out piggy for jumping on my bandwagon, I actually feel more comfortable with my vote. It reminds me of the same type of posts that I've experienced in the marathon day.

[Cobblerfone]

The deadline isn't when the day ends. It's when it HAS to end.

[Cobblerfone]

Thanks scum for killing a null/scummy read of mine.

@Xanny: Something about you seems off. Arthur Dent had some details in his ISO that made me think he was town despite the rest of it seeming off as well. Do you have any background for us? Where you've played mafia, for example?

[Cobblerfone]

Actually,

VOTE: noraaa

Get rid of her and it essentially becomes a logic problem whether she's scum or town. Since Xanny and Piggy are townreads of mine and the last or both scum are probably hidden in the Muffin/Amrun/mozamis mess. If noraaa's scum, my bet's on Amrun. If she's town I'm betting on Muffin/mozamis. (Amrun would be bussing Muffin too hard, mozamis going after Amrun for not posting in this game while posting in others sounds like a really awkward thing to accuse your buddy of.)

[Cobblerfone]

My enthusiasm, perhaps?

I think I figured it out. Your post seemed to be accusing Piggy directly to herself without a single question, only statements. An odd thing since you can't convince a player they're scum (even if they are). You have to convince the rest of the town that they're scum.

Seriously though, what makes you think noraaa is scum? You make it sound as if lynching her will give us answers whether she's scum or not, but to be fair that's pretty much true of anyone.

It's process of elimination for me. I already have a town read on you and piggy. That leaves Muffin/mozamis/Amrun, which have essentially settled themselves out, and noraaa who has few connections to anybody. Although, actually now that I think about it, if noraaa flips scum it could be muffin or mozamis as well, it's just Amrun seems the most likely partner. But if she's town I think it gurantees the scum team is in there. Hmm... Actually I might need to rethink this and review those three player's interactions.

[Cobblerfone]

@Mod:I'm gonna be V/LA part or all of tomorrow and Saturday. I'm not exactly sure at what time but I'll back on Sunday.

[Cobblerfone]

Also Cobbler's vote for noraa makes no sense. What is the "logic pro lem" you're talking about?

This and noraaa's question to me are basically the same so I'll just answer here. After posting again I said I might need to reread and rethink the relationship between you three. Now that I'm back I'll do that.

[Cobblerfone]

I reread and think mozamis is town on his own merits. Mainly on page two with the "I think he slipped". Anyway, with that cleared up I now only have one more dilema between the two. And it's something that can't be cleared up tomorrow if we DO mislynch. So just to be safe:

Vote: Amrun

[Cobblerfone]

My connection has been spotty the past couple of days. It might've cleared up, it might've not, I'm not sure yet.

You need to explain these "dileemmas" more.

Yeah sure. Not coming right out and explaining has ended bad for me before so I'll just outright say that I think one of you is the cop.

[Cobblerfone]

"Scummy but some of the details make me think town". Though I recently learned that that's not always gonna be a way to clear town.

[Cobblerfone]

How is valley girl a scumtell?

I took it as a joke. I am surprised that xanny seems so threatened to say that he's 2/3 chance, instead where from the way I interpret Muffin's suspicion it's "Amrun+noraaa or Amrun+xanny".

[Cobblerfone]

You don't meta people as scum and go "Oh... I'm wrong!"

Actually, I did that as scum. The player was vezok though.

[Cobblerfone]

This game is dying. But at least peacefully. I think we should quicklynch Amrun or noraaa. I say quicklynch, but of course let them claim when they're run up to L-1. Everyone needs to count votes carefully though.

[Cobblerfone]

Sure Xanny's an option. I've lost faith in my town-details finding anyway. So long as he has time to claim.

[Cobblerfone]

Amrun's reaction to xanny is "you call that a case?" Sounds like a mild scumtell to me.

But then, I've lost faith in general scumtells. I do think it applies to her though.

[Cobblerfone]

Okay, if the cop has a guilty, claim now. If the cop has an innocent on xanny/Amrun/noraaa/(Piggy?) or you are any of those people I suggest you claim, just to get this mess cleared out and make the rest of the game easier. Actually, how about we vote whether or not the cop should claim results? (Barring results on dead players)

I say: Yes the cop should claim if they have an innocent on anyone except Muffin/mozamis/Cobblerfone/Eijo. And that if they have a guilty I'm going to be mad they didn't claim.

[Cobblerfone]

The reason: I think Piggy and mozamis are town. Leaving Amrun/Muffin, noraaa, and xanny. If there's an innocent result on the rest of ya that'd help me greatly.

[Cobblerfone]

If the cop is in that group then that leaves exactly two people to be the mafia. If they have an innocent on Eijo I don't think they should claim.

[Cobblerfone]

The thing is, I think xanny will be a mislynch. So tomorrow will be lylo. The cop can't reliably claim in lylo. That's the thing I'm worried about.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobbler first brings up the possibility of there being a Cop here

But this is the post that worries me "if the cop has a guilty, claim now" here
We have absolutely no idea whether we have a cop or not.
So why did you ask that Cobbler?

Why not? There might be a cop.

[Cobblerfone]

Heck yeah. I was so afraid that the game had been thrown. I liked every player. This is my second favorite game so far. Plus I learned something with Dent, if something seems off, listen to your gut, don't try to justify it with "details".

[Cobblerfone]

Oh yeah, Fun Fact: I targeted Scum both nights. I figured I'd probably die but knew Muffin wouldn't on N2 so I protected the other person in my personal cop equation. On N1 I protected Big Sleep because it seemed like most people figured he was town and I thought he might be killed.

I really need to work on my cop-finding skills.

[Cobblerfone]

@Cobbler: well, you thought me or amrun were the cop, so your "who's not VT skills" are pretty good

Actually that was Amrun/Muffin. Though I noticed both you and Amrun got concerned about the cop.