Newbie #1019 (Game Over)

[Rikka]

VOTE: GPT Because all capitals are evil.

First game here, first ever. Nice to meet you all.

[Rikka]

Questions, eh?

1) When I was very young on a site long ago, I used the random name generator to get Rikka66 or something very similar. I've kept using "Rikka" since.
2) Tyki Mikk, a villain from a show I don't like much. But he's a rather slick guy, and I like tophats.
3) I would think claiming to be scum. While twirling your mustache and claiming you'll be back next time, of course.

[Rikka]

I don't like how Reilster put the L-2 on Olinea. Scum could put their votes for a hammer from their. Unlikely and stupid on their part, yes, but then I would think a newbie game would be the place where it would happen. And while I get that you're trying to get people talking, I think you're too quick to change votes.

Thian: Well my gut hasn't screamed at me yet to distrust someone, which I think is to be expected at 2 pages. The way to win is to find scum, and to find scum people need to talk. But to me there's talking and there's yelling, and it's easier to hide in yelling then manipulate talking.

[Rikka]

To clarify, my comment about yelling wasn't directed at you, Thian. You're certainly more aggressive than me, but that can be chalked up to just a difference in experience and personality. It was the honest answer to your earlier question, what would help my goal of winning. I had no problems with your questioning of Reilster. It doesn't seem like you're trying to get a bandwagon going, you're just seeing if he'll slip up.

[Rikka]

Oh yeah.

Hammer: Put the final vote that lynches a player.
L-#: That many votes for a lynch. With five votes needed, and your vote being the third, two were needed for a lynch.
RVS: Random Voting Stage (I assume)
RQS: Random Question Stage (I assume)

[Rikka]

So right now, would you have no problem with us taking Nazgul to the lynch?

[Rikka]

I agree for sure that voting is fine. I tend to pace things out more, so I'm not comfortable with a lynch this early. Mostly just wanted your reaction to the question. And yeah, a quick run-up would be great information wise. But if only wishes could come true.

The first vote being a self-vote is a suspicious move for sure, and the lack of reaction is worth pushing.

[Rikka]

I questioned camm to get the straight up on how far she wanted to push Nazgul at that current point. I had no intention of voting for a lynch on her when she had only posted once. She's very aggressive, and if things were to get to a lurker lynch on naz I didn't' want camm to have any way to slip out of responsibility for it. And I agreed with her answer because....I agreed with her answer. She's not voting to get a lynch, she's voting to pressure. If there was a sudden run-up from L-2 at that point and Naz was innocent, it would be informative. There wasn't much to disagree with.

Thian seems to be trying to find a slip-up in someone, but I think you're going too far. Too many questions without answers that are only to get someone to mess up their words just annoy everyone else.

[Rikka]

I'll establish that my vote for GPT isn't random anymore, but a pressure vote. I'd like to see him get into the game more. Also from here on I'm reading from my last post, so that's the order for responses.

Olinea is going about being willing to lynch again (another threat, or real?).

I don't think the issue on Olinea is that big. I'm believing the claim right now that it was just icebreaker questions, and there wasn't much time between the post and the explanation for question 3. I do note Olinea's random vote was on you, and essentially your next post was a vote on Oli. I know there's one before, but there's a 2 minute difference between them.

@Nazgul: Well your posting, and you're rather.....spunky. Not that it is a bad quality to have, but in a game like this spunk is kind of odd. Not necessarily scummy, just odd. I also kidn of agree with your voting policy. I haven't fully worked out what mine is yet, being my first game, but I'm not big on throwing out votes lightly. For her vote switch, you had made a post by then, and it fits with her "go after lurkers" policy. But then switching to GPT. She has an explanation, but it it a bit flimsy.

I don't want you to take it that because camm has called my obvtown that I'm now fully trusting her every word. camm's aggressive play makes her a, well, "bloodthirsty little slut." She's either a really obvious town or a really obvious scum. That might sound like it's not useful to know, but I think it is. Some kind of read is worth noting over no read.

I'm not sure what you meant by "catching camm out." Was it, like, looking for a slip of the tongue. Either way, realize because you predict an answer doesn't mean they're scummy for using it. And I think you can understand why that way of speech, using phrases like "to tell the truth" looks scummy.

[Rikka]

Who exactly were the people you had in mind when you said "i have 2 scum sweating?" Based off a quick reread of your posts it seems to be myself and Thian. And speaking personally, you don't really have anyone sweating.

[Rikka]

Reilster

[Rikka]

I'm hesitant about a list because I'm having a hard time getting a read on some people. And it's harder to classify as either seeming like town or scum without just putting it down to my gut. I'm going to chalk it up to being my first game. I'll give a try though.

Withnail: You're very amicable. I'm finding you don't really post anything that's going to rile anyone up particularly. Whether that's just how you are or you're scum trying to avoid getting on anyone's bad side I can't be sure of.

Nazgul: Like I said, oddly spunky. Has had to be on the defense so far, but works in an argument against camm as well.

Olinea: I kind of have the same read on you as Witnail, but not as amicable. I'm also feeling like we're getting a bit too much fluff posting from you.

McGriddle: I read his posts with an angry tone. He certainly hasn't contributed much to helping town so far.

Thian: I found some of his questions of Reilster really odd on a first read-through, but they make more sense on rereads. He's scum hunting hard, and though I've called it annoying, he's working for the town. He also hasn't tried to use any of these little minor issues he questions to push a bandwagon. At the same time, most of it feels like minor issues, and he could just be trying to create noise so we don't notice real issues worth hard pushing.

Reilster: I don't get the best vibe in the world from you.

Also, I encourage you to write down what you think on EVERYONE. 2 scum are sweating at the moment from what I've said about them. Also, accuse me, I want to see people properly scum-hunting, I'll answer any questions easily, because I'll be telling the truth.

I just get a really bad vibe from that. And that assumption you've got people sweating. Still, you're seem to be trying to keep your thoughts open to everyone, which I like. So bad vibe aside, I have no good reason to call you scum.

camn: Like I said, really town or really scum. She focuses mainly on lurkers, maybe too much? You dropped the case with Nazgul a bit quick. You've done extra questioning on her and on Thian, so it's not like you're just attaking people who don't talk. She's made the most moves that seem like attempts to take command.

Also, doing a quick read through of her posts on the first pages of Newbie 789, where she is town. Her posts are around the same length. She's after lurkers. But those posts were she seems to be trying to take the lead aren't as prevalent. In fairness, she isn't the IC there, and she did makea point of linking the Ic code of ethics thingy. Quit reading at page 7, where that forcefulness is really showing off.

GPT: Dude hasn't been here, so Gonna keep this vote on him so his replacement is hot on his heels from the beginning.

Right now I would call camm and Thian town, though maybe I'm still just blushing at being called obvtown. Can't really peg anyone as scum.

[Rikka]

Olinea is going about being willing to lynch again (another threat, or real?).

I just noticed that here I put Olinea instead of camn. Crap.

I'm disappointed in what we're getting from you so far, Eggy. We're really in a need of some fresh perspective. And while I appreciate the honesty, "I won't have time to analyze or give long posts, now everyone please unvote me" doesn't inspire confidence. And the only specific mention is of camn. If it's an attempt to start a bandwagon, it's certainly a subtle one, trying to get us to suddenly rethink all of our opinion's on camn or bring up the doubts we have with her. I understand how he would have trouble getting a good read on everyone, that seems to be the theme for most of us. But I think it's obvious a lot of us were hoping for a bit more on your thoughts on everyone.

What do you mean by the difference between inactivity and lurking? It is the difference between not being here and checking the thread but not posting? We've talked of lurking and active lurking, but your choice of words make it sound like you speak of something different. Regardless, I don't know why you brought this up, since it should be clear the early assault on Nazgul was only because she wasn't posting. It's the same reason we begin to get on GPT.

I can see where you're coming from, but I feel you're making a big leap to go for a straight out scum call.

[Rikka]

Last sentence addressed to camn.

[Rikka]

I am curious as to why you chose to put your vote on Thian instead of Reilster, Withnail.

The way I look at it right now, since their is no way to prove their was pre-game planning between Thian and Reilster, it might be easier to interrogate Withnail compared to Thian.

[Rikka]

Reilster
I know 2 scum are sweating because I'm town (typical scum behaviour, I don't know.) therefore 2 of you are scum and they will be nervous by what i have written, I need to properly read what i have written and see if anyone has changed behaviour drastically, to try and stop acting scummy.

But why would they be sweating? You had said nothing particularly threatening, and they aren't going to sweat just because you're town. There's seven town, they knew that from the start. And what would you be looking for when you say "try to stop acting scummy"? A behavior change in general isn't necessarily a sign of scum.

I'm not changing my vote, but if it comes down to deadline and nothing has changed then McGriddle would be my choice. As for now I'm content to give Eggy a bit of a reason to sweat.

[Rikka]

We're talking about FoS on it's own, right? Because obviously when you already have a vote up FoS is just a fancy way of saying "i'm suspicious of so-and-so."

Withnail, so have your thoughts changed about Reilster along with the ones you have on Thian?

It seems like Eggy is just dancing around us right now. It's why my vote is staying on him instead of going to McGriddle.

[Rikka]

Rikka had a busy weekend. And a bad hangover. He decided he was not in the best condition to be posting.

I have come to realize that in this game the smart people always get lynched, and the morons who write walls of text that include no information always slip under the radar (whether they be scum, or just town that has no idea what they are doing). I know I am town, so I try to get scum. I have almost given up on helping the town, and I have started playing for me. The town has become so dumb that it's not even worth fighting for anymore. I just wish people would be less blood hungry and more logical and intelligent but I guess that's like throwing your quarter in a well and expecting a dragon to fly out at this point.

My top 2 scum candidates: Withnail and Eggy.

I am not going to claim.

I'd like to throw the hammer right now. He's spent half the game whining and bitching, and now insulting everyone. He knows riling people up is a great way to get himself lynched. You've barely hunted, and you haven't shared any of these amazing insights with the rest of the town. If you're next post isn't an actual defense and some sharing of information, I'm hammering.

Putting things off camn? I don't like it. If we get a lynch soon one of your first posts for day two should be a sharing of your evaluations.

Nazgul, you need to post. Especially if you are so sure in your case against camn, which you've made it seem pretty clear you are.

I still think Eggy is dancing, and he's be my second choice for a lynch right now.

[Rikka]

I want to lynch. I said I should lynch. I should lynch.

Olinea, I'll give you a day or Naz's next post to get your read. After that I'm hammering.

[Rikka]

I need to do a read through of the thread again, see if there's a new perspective to be had.

Without a read-through, well, the Nazgul case hasn't changed an iota.

[Rikka]

Saying the Nazgul case hasn't changed was incorrect, you're right. What I meant was that in my view she didn't look any less scummy. She's avoided voting, avoided hammering McGriddle, and it feels like she's been trying to get a camn wagon going since the beginning without much success. After being the focus of a wagon early on day 1 could she have chosen to try to stay out of the spotlight the rest of the day?

I brought the two of you up yesterday because both of you have been accusing the other since the beginning, with neither of you pushing it very hard. I'd to see you post a new summary of why you have a case on camn, Nazgul. Did she do anything during the latter half of day 1 that strengthened your suspicion? Tell the specifics of how our two recent twon reveals support your accusation. I think Thian had some good points about her role in the McGriddle lynch.

Four posts today for Eggy and none of them go over a line.

Right now I say VOTE: Nazgul Eggy isn't giving the best vibe though.

[Rikka]

Okay, somehow my post that should have gone under 339 went under 334. What?

[Rikka]

Thian: I understand where camn's case against me came from. I did phrase that post incorrectly. Like I said, it's not that the case against Nazgul hasn't changed, I think it's even worse.
If she's mafia, she didn't want to hammer because she new McGriddle was town and thought it would look worse to be the hammer then not to be, even with questioning on her. On the other hand, even though camn is pulling a scum-read now she still has no problems with a Nazgul lynch. Since early day 1 she's been talking about a Naz lynch without really pushing it though, like she's hoping a bandwagon shows up on its own.

Withnail: My suspicion of Nazgul didn't flare up until the end of yesterday, and by then I was more focused on McGriddle to worry much about it. And I'm hesitant about Eggy, because it already reminds me of McGriddle. I wanted him lynch because he wasn't helpful, but I will admit him being as ass helped the decision. It feels like we're going the same route with Eggy.

Really, what I said about camn is pretty much the same thing I said about Nazgul last page. Both have pinned each other as scum early on, but neither has done much to convince the others of it.

[Rikka]

I didn't understand this, especially "pulling a scum read". It seems like an interesting point - could you rephrase so as to make it clearer?

She picks me out as one of the possible scums because I suggested we continue a case against Nazgul. She calls scummy as to her I'm just suggesting we just continue where we left off on day 2 without any change, which I understand. But she's admits later she has no problem with a Nazgul lynch.

[Rikka]

I did phrase that explanation badly, sorry.

Without a read-through, well, the Nazgul case hasn't changed an iota.

This is what camn finds suspect.

Rikka, on the other hand, came out pushing 'lets do the same as yesterday!", which, IMO is a scum-move 100%

And I said, what I meant was more "i think we should push nazgul more as her case doesn't look any better, if anything it looks worse." So I understand where camn is coming from, as my intial post does have something of "things haven't changed, let's keep doing what we were doing" wording.

I still support a Nazgul lynch.

A later post from camn says she supports a nazgul lynch. She calls me out for suggesting we continue a nazgul case. In fairness, Nazgul had since had two more posts were she votes for camn and gives some poor support for her suspicion.

I dunno what my point it, really. Just something I thought worth noting. As I've said, this nazgul vs. camn thing has been going down in the background since the beginning. Camn has never really pushed too hard on it though, and even now she only votes after a restate this in post 360. Could she be scum sweating that I'm calling her out for fence-sitting and she's trying to take a stand now? Dunno. I think it's more likely for nazgul to be scum, but I'd like to see what camn has to say about this. She said on her vote that she had "been going to easy on her" which would be the way to look at a town who did this.

[Rikka]

Gonna work on a post, will have it sometime tonight. I want to say very soon, but this a computer, and I am easily distracted.

Question though, Eggy mentions he's seeing breadcrumbs. Andrew says that wasn't smart to point out as town, which I'm inclined to agree. But now that it's out in the open, do we want to see who else is seeing breadcrumbs. Not from who or were, just if they're also seeing them. If scum are hunting for clues now, do we want a group consensus on whether or not there are any so they can know better whether there are or not? I suppose this is where the IC hat comes in.

[Rikka]

I forgot to say this, but the reason to know would be to see if eggy is trying to throw up a smoke-screen.

[Rikka]

Well first, we've never gotten that analysis post Eggy promised.

Andrew's entrance.....completely shifts the flow that was going on before. He's entirely focused on Eggy. Barely a word about anyone else. And what he says largely echoes thoughts we all had already had. Eggy is pretty scummy, no doubt, so I see why he's the one you would target. But no thoughts on the rest of us. Town or scum, it seems like you chose the easiest target to get the pressure off you.

Eggy's defense.....well, at least he's consistent in admitting he useless. But the thing about power roles feels like a desperate last attempt to defend yourself.

Withnail's got the right idea. I'm wary that eggy really is just useless and not scum. All we had with Nazgul were her actions at the end of day one. And you got me thinking down pat. That was why I called out the amicable thing. Reilster and myself are the people who have really slipped under the radar most.

I get a bad vibe from Camn's post (395). Nothing in it particulalry, but just her whole behavior this game makes me worried. I'm afraid right now she's been leading us along. Aside from occasionally, "too much IC hat" no one pressured her except Nazgul, and you can hardly call that Nazgul.

Reilster's post echoes my thoughts. I feel like me and him have behaved pretty identically, which may be why I'm inclined to think him town right now. Not getting that bad vibe I had yesterday. Still, that whole post about the role set-up where he demonstrated he didn't understand them......weird. Kind of makes me feel more like he's town. Can't see a scum trying something like that. And his NK post is like my breadcrumb post. Reilster, what were you thinking when you asked that?

This entire fakeclaim argument. I don't think the details are important on this. Either andrew is setting up for future fakeclaims and is scum or is town who honestly believes this theory. As I don't have any experience with fakeclaims, I don't feel like I can chime in. It certainly doesn't seem like a good idea in the majority of situations to me. Creates too much confusion for town as well as scum.

Second thoughts: This discussion has gone on stupidly long, and it's distracting from real discussion. It's cluttering up the thread and keeping real scum hunting form occurring.

I certainly would.

Re:logic.... Doesn't exist early in a game, IMO. Only gut and grit. But later, once you can look at votes and night choices.. Then it is more important.

Re: withnail... His posts.. They just keep ringing so true in my mind. Either he is town, or the most brilliant scum I have seen since Hoopla 2 games back. I can't see him as scum.

@Andrew: fakeclaiming doc is terrible.
You are clearly scum, and you are trying to setup the opportunity for you or your partner (who is Eggy) to fakeclaim.
If you get counterclaimed, you will say you are actually vanilla. .. Hoping to buy another day of life.
Meanwhile you will have exposed the real Power Roles for no reason, and thrown the town into confusion.

Not gonna work while I am alive.

MORE ANDREW VOTES PLEASE.

Camn confidence again. She wants an Andrew lynch. And like the entire game, she wants us following her lead. If camn is scum, it fits in with the "one scum on wagon, one scum off" theory she shared with us earlier.

I'm more inclined to think a scum is somewhere in eggy or andrew. I don't see them both being scum with them attacking each other while they're the only two targets, but then maybe that's naive of me. They could just be bussing one another so whoever comes out alive looks better tomorrow.

[Rikka]

That is actually a good point, and I totally forgot to rectify that.

My vote stays

After McGriddle, I don't feel comfortable with voting for someone who is just useless. And I want to see something about andrew that doesn't' involve fakeclaiming or eggy. What do you feel about the rest of us? Our play?

[Rikka]

That should have been bold.

[Rikka]

Did a quick readthrough of the the latter half of day 1. Camn didn't seem too interested to talk about any other options, namely Nazgul, during the McGriddle events. She says she thinks she scums, says she'll get to it later, but isn't interested in talking about it. That's because she was confident in Griddle being scum.

And of course, she really likes you Withnail. I know it seems unlikely that scum would be that obvious in buddying up with each other, but it seems naive to just straight up write something off as too scummy to be possible.

Though I have to agree, you seem pretty town.

[Rikka]

I'm speaking of buddying up. It doesn't prove anything, I'm just bringing up an observation I have. I've been asked plenty of times throughout the thread to speak up more, and I figure I best try to however I can.

[Rikka]

Just my nature. I don't talk much in real life. I don't say something unless I really think it's worth saying. Which isn't really the best approach to take in this game, I'll admit, but it's who I am.

I wasn't trying to clear camn or withnail with my comment. My attention with that comment was just to bring up the possibility that withnail is scum with camn, and I mostly brought up because I find myself so trusting of withnail. I'm more curious what you think of the first part of my post. Do you think camn should have been more open about the possibility of discussing Nazgul during the McGriddle events? She says she was confident McGriddle was scum, but you weren't, Thian. Shouldn't you have asked camn to join in that avenue of discussion?

[Rikka]

My gut isn't in withnail and camn. Right now I'm pretty sure withnail is town. It's just a possibility that came to mind when I was making that post. And I also tried to get camn to discuss Nazgul near the end of day 1, but she told me she didn't want to bring it up when she was pretty sure McGriddle was scum.

[Rikka]

The thing with withnail is entirely my problem, I didn't expect anyone to figure it out for me. I don't expect you to ask those questions. I expect you to ask your own questions. I found your answers pretty satisfying on why you didn't push on camn for nazgul day 1. And that's the thing, I wasn't asking you to ask my questions, I was asking you to answer my questions.

And to answer you question, I do find it scummy. McGriddle was the best choice for a day 1 lynch, but he was hardly such a sure choice that if camn had other suspicions she should have let them sit. Am I guilty of the same? Yes, but one of his being guilty of an action doesn't mean the other isn't.

[Rikka]

Also

Unvote

andrew. He's coming out of his shell. And I can't in good conscience keep my vote solely with my other two scum suspects.

And a new post. This little exchange is how I'm trying to move towards that. Direct questions....it's not that it's not my style, it's not my person. My posts are essentially me thinking aloud, and obviously its something that needs to change some. I didn't question about the nazgul thing because I figured the answer would be the same as when I asked here day 1.

[Rikka]

@Eggy: You've admitted to be playing neutral and not helping town. McGriddle said on day 1 he wasn't interested in playing on the first day. Do you think there are similarities in the behavior of the two of you?

@Reilster:

I have personally had a bad gut feel over Camn, but I didn't want to throw the town into chaos if I was the only one who had doubts, but now that you have said something

You took Nazgul away from L-1 because you wanted more information and presumably discussion, but you aren't willing to share possibly doubts you had about camn, to try to get a new route of discussion going? And because it would "throw the town into chaos?" I understand don't necessarily agree with camn using that excuse back on Day 1. If she thought McGriddle was scum, then allowing the lynch to run through without fully explaining suspicions make sense. But even then she at least noted her suspicions of Nazgul, where you haven't said anything of the sort. And right now we have no lynch for you to be sure of, as indicated by your lack of a vote.

So why did you wait for Withnail to raise his doubts before saying anything?

[Rikka]

Rikka, where do you feel your vote would be best placed?

If I knew that, I'd be voting on someone. Eggy is the scummiest, but as much as it pains me to say this he seems too scummy to be true. camn would be for pressure. And I'm just less and less sure of andrew.

[Rikka]

No. I felt as if you she could be scum trying to take charge of the town, and even said she was either really town or really scum, but that I was leaning towards town.
I was more suspicious of Withnail day 1, and never had any kind of gut read on him. I do think he's town right now.

[Rikka]

I'm more suspicious of camn then outright sure she's scummy. But it's a strong suspicion.

[Rikka]

secondly, ur ability is already not working due to me

What do you mean by this andrew? How you impeding are endgame ability right now?

And.....yeah, eggy, play the game or leave.

Camn, if you want eggy lynched, why don't you vote him? Don't tell me about pressuring, since it's clear it won't work with him.

[Rikka]

I did a skim of some of Newbie 1005, his first game. He's mafia, his posts are short, he doesn't say much. If he's VT than he's a piece of shit, but lynching him means we're looking at lylo tomorrow.

In an earlier post I said andrew either was setting up fakeclaiming or arguing too long. I only said the first thing because camn brought it up, I will admit. Looking back I don't think he wanted to set up a chance to fakeclaim. I also believe she's more logical than she's letting. I don't think she was trying to set up a case against you with that post, though, Withnail.

Eggy, what exactly in your reread made you decide to investigate Withnail?

I don't really feel like me and Reilster are being pressured to participate as much as you're making it out to be, Thian. I threw myself in the limelight with our little discussion. So if Eggy is doing this to hide Reilster it's incredibly preemptive. Which doesn't seem like him.

[Rikka]

camn, how closely were you reading the fakeclaiming discussion between andrew and withnail/thian?

Eggy, why did you bring

So town that he might be scum

up if it wasn't an example of breadcrumbing.

[Rikka]

When? camn has mentioned it an example that if you had an innocent on withnail, then that statement wouldn't inform us of it after your death. And why did you bold the "so town" part?

[Rikka]

I'm inclined not to trust eggy as he never answered any of the questions I asked of him. But I think withnail has a point. Scum or cop, eggy's play isn't good. Judging him under normal standards isn't the best course. But while I only skimmed Newbie 1005, ignoring his night actions it didn't seem like his play was as bad as in this game. Maybe no one ever jumped on him there, though.

If camn really did just the fakeclaim argument a shallow look, I can see how she would think andrew was trying to set up fakeclaiming. But a closer look makes it pretty clear he wasn't.

andrew, why are you so confident that if eggy flips town we have an easy mark in camn tomorrow? I hardly see things playing out that way.

[Rikka]

If things don't change I'm voting to lynch eggy, I'm decided on that. I was planning on announcing it tonight and if everyone was prepared, to lynch. But now we have an extra week and a new players, so we'll see if anything changes.

[Rikka]

Hahahah. I'm no shining star in the realm of activity, but I'm better than you at least. And considering you never answeared any of the questions I had for you, it doesn't surprise me you have none for me. Right now I'm waiting for charlie to finish his reread, as there isn't much to say about his suspicions about me, as I don't feel he's fully explained them. I will say post 56 was so Thian didn't feel so many people wanted him to stop talking.

[Rikka]

No, I do not. The reason I don't post more is because I feel I don't have much of substance to say, and I want what I say to count.

Eggy, do you believe I am active lurking? Do you think that's a sign of scum?

[Rikka]

I'm going to let charlie have a chance to finish his reread. I'll give him till, Sunday, and if by then he hasn't finished I'll lynch. Unless you rather unvote and allow me to have the L-1 spot, if that makes you feel more comfortable.

[Rikka]

All of his vote summary posts deadlines since announcing the change have today as the deadline, something I just noticed. If this is the case I'll lynch today. Mod, what's up?

And no thian, I don't. But when I'm ready to lynch and am waiting for a replacement to read the thread I wonder where you want me to vote.

[Rikka]

I really can't respond to any of charlie's accusations since he's not very specific. It seems to largely be "I can't read him, so he's probably scum." Which isn't the worse argument, I suppose. It be easier if he would give me examples of scummy behavior, because I can just say right now "that's just how I am."

I wont' lynch until Sunday night, and if you guys want to go longer after that just say so.

[Rikka]

That's it. Lynch time. I don't think there's anything else to say.
VOTE: Eggy

charlie, it would really help if you would explain why you think I'm scum. As it is now there's nothing for me to respond to.

[Rikka]

So nothing I can argue with. Can I have examples of the possible association?

[Rikka]

I'm pretty suspicious of Withnail currently. He did his best to stay out of the Eggy debate, focusing exclusively on camn.

Wow ... that's one development I wasn't expecting!

In this situation, if there is a real cop (who's not Eggy), I think s/he should counterclaim.

The downside of that is obvious: the counterclaimer would out himself/herself as the real cop. But it's still worth doing. The IC player in my last game (who was town) put the point very neatly:

This comes down to a simple question: What is the purpose of a power role? The answer is ultimately to help us find scum. If you can help us find scum merely by claiming your role, your role has already done its job. The point of playing Mafia is not “to keep the power roles hidden / alive” but to lynch scum.


If there is no counterclaim, we shouldn't lynch Eggy.

If he is scum, its a win-win situation for him. Counterclaim shows up, they know the cop. No counterclaim, his scum buddy stays alive.

Then in post #595 he calls out andrew as a more suspicious candidate than Eggy. Post #610 seems to sum up his views; he's not after Eggy because he thinks Eggy just sucks, not that he's mafia. I had similar thoughts. But I still went after Eggy.

You've also identified Rikka and me as suspects. I've raised suspicions of camn. Various people have suspected the Nazgul / andrew slot. Etc.

It's a crucial decision, and there's no hurry to make it. We have over a week to go. I say: take your time. You may spot something that changes several votes.

It really seems like he wants the Eggy discussion to halt. He wants a different lynch target. I'm not sure what to make of #694. It could just be putting up an act.

So overall, I feel like Withnail actively avoided taking part in debate on Eggy, when he did take part it was attempts to get people not to vote him, and he attempted, and largely succeeded, to get a campaign started against camn, and at one point re-fuel the wagon against andrew.

I'll admit this is largely from an ISO read on Withnail, so I'm likely missing some key elements from other players.

[Rikka]

If the target wasn't andrew in #594, I blame the formatting. The name "camn" doesn't show up once aside from quotes. It goes from "there's a more suspicious candidate" into quotes about andrew.

The questions I asked of eggy, he ignored. There was no use pointing out for the tenth time that yes, the guy who admitted he wasn't trying to help the town was scummy. It was largely a matter of deciding of whether Eggy was crappy town or crappy mafia.

The refueling comment was again referring to #594.

I'm pretty indecisive. It's not a good excuse, no doubt. But it's the true reason I don't take too many stands, and that's better than a complicated lie. And I think this is one of those WIFOM type things I'm posting here. Meh.

I'm not looking to lead discussion. But it's easier for me to bring up thoughts I don't feel like I'm just repeating. Why beginning of the day works for me.

Why are you surprised Thian was NK? Not taking into the real possibility he had been suspicious of the other scum, he's a good candidate. He well liked, and no one was bringing him up as possible scum. Where as at the end of day 2 Charlie had listed me as one of his possible scums, you had spent most of the day after camn, and andrew had been a big target the first half of day 2.

So does no one else I find it suspicious the guy who didn't want to lynch eggy and the guy eggy the really bad scum called out as innocent were the same person?

[Rikka]

Which is why I haven't voted him. I still haven't done a good read on anyone else yesterday, so don't think I'm solely after Withnail right now. He just stuck out the most after eggy turning scum.

I will say the problem wouldn't be Withnail's play so much as it would be eggy screwing him over.

[Rikka]

If you guys want a massclaim, I'm fine with going first. We've had people still alive who've made clear what roles they can't be, so I'd be surprised if their would be a scum power-role claim attempt. So the bigger problem is it will make problems for tonight.

Thing is, those problems don't matter if we lynch scum today. So I'm okay with a massclaim if the majority is.

[Rikka]

I can claim right now if that's what you want.

[Rikka]

I'm in favor of a mass-claim, but not so much so that I'm going to push one. I don't see it as vital that one happens.

Vanilla Town. Not much groundbreaking, I'm afraid.

[Rikka]

Can you ever trust anyone's word? I do think what people say is worth more now than later. But then I don't have much experience in the situation. But now it seems there isn't too few or too many, and there is only one player who should potentially be lying.

I'm feeling resigned, but I need to muster up some resistance. If we have to go to lylo tommorrow I'll admit I'd be the least useful town member to have, with my indecisive attitude. But I'd rather lynch the scum now, obviously. But realistically, if I'm gonna get lynched I want to have left valuable information for the other town to be able to find the last scum. And right now if I'm lynched I don't think I'll have left any clues.

So I'll go and read and see what I can't find to bring up. My question, for everyone right now is, just how scummy do you find me? I understand my fence-sitting and somewhat lurky behavior is what has gotten me here, but just how scummy do you really find this? Is this merely a case where when we don't have much scummy behavior I'm just the best candidate or am I really oblivious and everyone is acting really scummy, and I'm just the most so?

I brought up the Withnail thing to get discussion started. I didn't feel like looking at everyone's play but I did feel like I should try to do my part to get his day started, and Withnail was on my mind. To me its divided in my mind "either Withnail really thought Eggy was just sucky town, or he's scum" and I wanted to know how others thought.

[Rikka]

@Withnail. I just think if we're ever mass-claiming, now would be the best time. If all we have is a doctor or a cop with no reads, for whatever reason, then its best for them to keep hiding, yeah. That's the reason I'm not pushing for one like andrew.

[Rikka]

Post #257 of Reilster's strikes me as an odd time to attack eggy. It's during the period the wagon on McGriddle is ramped up to L-1. Still, he had been on eggy before and after that, so I'm not reading it as bussing. Hell, the first thing he says day 2 is that he's looking at eggy and nazgul. So, andrew, what exactly was suspicious about reilster day 1? Can we have specific examples?

[Rikka]

Its placement was a bit odd, but overall it was the oddest post I could find in relation to eggy and it was pretty town. So no, I don't agree with andrew and want to know what he saw was so suspicious.

[Rikka]

I think you've overblown the fence-sitting of my comments of mass-claims. I'm just trying to get down all my thoughts about it I'll say it again, I think its a good idea, but not so much i care to argue towards doing it. And if one of you are a doctor, or a cop with no living reads, then I can see why you're against it. That's also not the best plan when people are already pissed at you for fence-sitting.

The re-read. I have finished day 1, probably won't have the rest done till tomorrow. Not looking great on my part, since a lot of I could bring up is stuff we know scummy, we thought was scummy before, and is still scummy. Withnail looks worse for going after Thian day one, though.

I still want to know what andrew saw from reilster with eggy that we didn't. Or at least I didn't.

[Rikka]

Sorry. Relatives come early stay long. Not much time for mafia. Will try to get thoughts together later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Will say that I'd like some explanation too andrew, as I feel I'm missing something you're seeing. And so far my read hasn't been going good for me.

Can't say I am withnail. I could see you being nightkilled just because scum wouldn't want to go up against you during lylo, though.

[Rikka]

My read isn't giving me anything. Partially because like everyone else I'm a bit tired of this game, which my behavior has contributed to, my apologies. I'm gonna look some more, but assuming I don't have anything whenever withnail does his normal "4 in the morning us central time posting" then you can take it that I'm ready to accept my fate. I'll say again, I'm town, and I apologize for not being able to help more.

[Rikka]

You know, I think I would have caught on with camn sooner if I hadn't actually been getting drunk around the time she made those posts.

[Rikka]

When both andrew and charlie replaced, the first thing they did, basically, was target eggy. Eggy would make for a depressing scum-partner, but how likely would the first action of a scum replacing in be to bus his partner? The contexts are the situations are important as well. Andrew came in when the wagon against nazgul was big, with eggy being the other primary target, but that was still back when we had more annoyance than outright "scum try to lynch" feelings. Charlie came in when eggy was at l-1 and a deadline a few days, later moved to a week.

I couldn't see myself choosing the course of action when I first replace in, but I don't have any experience in the matter. I think it especially unlikely for andrew to do if he was scum, censoring the context compared to charlie. What do the people with more notches under their belt think?

And yeah, its really late here. But I was playing minecraft, and now I don't want to sleep I'll probably pass out at some point.

[Rikka]

Bah post and such. Good luck, town. I'm sorry I couldn't have been more help.

[Rikka]

I totally didn't realize the cop claim and the Thian innocence until a few days before my lynch. And I felt so stupid for taking so long. The whole PJ Harvey thing reeked of bull, though. Good game to all of you though. I had fun.

On Day 2 camn sort of faded out the spotlight when Withnail went after her and eggy just got more focus, which made me forgot about her, which was my biggest mistake barring my natural play. To any who play with me in the future I'll hope to have it improved.