Newbie 1012 - Game over

[Dickov]

Hi guys. I confirm my participation in this game. Pleasure to meet you all and hopefully we'll have an interesting game of mafia.

[Dickov]

GMT+8 normally (although I will return to GMT in a week)

Little experience of forum mafia per se and I have no general preference for mafia or townsfolk.

[Dickov]

I

vote Silverbullet

purely because of

Oh My God You Suck

voting.

[Dickov]

Unvote

Vote Enigma

for

Oh My God You Sucking

.

I understand the general concept of scumhunting and trying to provoke people into giving too much away but seriously, I only put an OMGUS vote and I'm heralded as Don Dickov.

Woop de doo.

[Dickov]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused but...

a) What is l-1?
b) @ Bhavit; What are you talking about?
c) What is FoS and why must it be bolded?

[Dickov]

Okay, I didn't actually keep track of the votes but now that I've revised the thread I understand a bit.

Sorry for L-1ing you Silverbullet but it's only fair you get an OMGUS vote after voting for me for such a... pathetic reason.

After analyzing the thread, I will

unvote

but expect an OMGUS for whoever votes for me.

Also, Finger of Suspicion to Bhavit as well for hijacking the moral high ground and forcing people to defend themselves. You are fingered dude.

[Dickov]

On Day 1 itself, what information can

truely

be gathered about your surrounding players? Only speculative guessing at best.

I'm not a fan for Day 1 Lynching because it's bad for town to me. We're already gonna get raped by the mafia it doesn't help if we rape our own on such inconclusive evidence.

I'm not a fan of Day 1 Lynching because of the gaming aspect of it as well. I can imagine other fellow new players in this game, after waiting for 3-5 days to get into their first game, they die by day 1 lynch. It's heartbreaking, regardless of whether one is mafia or not.

Yes, I know, I've read the wiki and expect to be told off for being a mafiosi as

it's a mafia tell to vote for no lynch on day 1 bla bla bla

. Pardon the OMGUS voting because that's all I have in my arsenal of defence there is just no plausible way I can actually make a calculated and logical vote on who I think is mafia at this phase of the game.

That being said, inb4youtalktoomuchyoumustbenervousthereforemafia
and inb4onlythemafiavotenolynchday1 or inb4youremafiacauseyouravatarsaysmafia

[Dickov]

Okay. I've read through the rubble.

Firstly; Enigma.

Is it just me or does it look like you became the self-appointed shot caller in this game? A look at the voting for both times Excedrin has published the vote count shows that you are involved in the buildup to lynch for both silverbullet999 AND RaymondKurayami; both leaders in votes. Granted, I too was involved in silverbullet999's wagon but I had a justifiable reason (by my standards at least) to vote for him.

Couple that with the fact that you've changed your vote many times; from Silverbullet to me to BhavitGhoyal and to RaymondKurayami and now Raymond is one vote closer to L-1. It may look like you're genuinely part of the uninformed majority easily slapping your vote on people's faces to draw more information or it could be a

facade

for you to contribute to a mislynch that mafia would so desire in the guise of "gathering information".

Shadow Dancer

You said "Waggoning an SE seems like a good idea" but there are two SE's in this game why did you choose Silverbullet over Enigma? Co-incidentally, Raymond myself and more importantly Enigma (as well) voted for Silverbullet on your wagon, convenient correlation or mere coincidence?

You wanted to hear my justification for voting silverbullet? It's a poor reason but it's genuine OMGUS but now that I see the power of a vote, it's much too powerful to use on mere OMGUS reasons. I however would like to see your justification for

bhavit vs. ray looks strange... Definitely something to keep an exe on.

However,

unvote. vote dickov

is what is to do now.

Bhavitghoyal

Maybe it didn't cross your mind but I've observed that you have wagoned in this game and more importantly, twice you've wagonned off Enigma. Firstly you voted for me shortly after he did and after Enigma posted his suspicions about Raymond and his "scumslip" you quickly jumped ship too. It's insufficient to launch a concrete scumhunt against you but consider yourself

fingered

for a more solid reason this time. That and the fact that you're a new player who behaves like an SE or IC. You've also conveniently managed to deflect attention onto your fellow new players whenever you come into the line of fire of questioning.

It could be that this is some advanced gameplay that is beyond a beginner like me but hey, you can't blame a guy for trying right?
Am I doing it right?

[Dickov]

@ BhavitGoyal (sorry about the spelling mistake)

Firstly, you attempted to pass off tagging along with Enigma as your "foolishness" in failing to recognize the obvious "scumslip".
But this is what you earlier addressed to Raymond

Let me ask you guys, how much real evidence is there against me? Or is it just assumptions. I know this game is based of fos' but picking me is just bad.

No eal evidence can ever be found in this game. All you could find is little mistakes. And you have done one already. We have a strong evidence only against you. So theres a chance for you to be a mafia.

I'm a beginner but even a beginner could realize that this statement automatically refers to his earlier scumslip which you claimed to have overlooked in your last post to me. Can you care to explain the contradiction in terms?

Your volatile sense of suspicion allows me to deduce a few things about you, perhaps not necessarily scum but certainly indicative about your playstyle.
You have OKed my suspicions of Enigma which makes wonder why you earlier OKed his vote against me. It seems that whenever someone becomes vocal in this game, you are always in the shadow of their aggression... that is... until the aggression is directed against you.

Blaming others for my mistakes may be scummy but I have given all that I've spoken against the benefit of the doubt, as I'm a newbie and it's a newbie game. I could lie and say it was some advanced gameplay where I did some hammer and nails shit and instantly found out who is mafia but it's not. Boiling away its caveats, it was just noobness from me to vote as the fourth guy in a... generally interesting wagon. Now that I know slightly more, I won't make the same mistake again, hence me STILL not voting until I have garnered further information.

So right now, you find yourself in a comfortable position as scum (or maybe townsfolk). No votes against you as both me and Raymond have been identified as threats or maybe just lynchalicious and you come from your position with a feeble novice attempt at rolefinding and trying to gather very general information. The caution you have applied to what has said so far

id est

agreeing with whoever is the voice of the moment, hijacking the moral high ground, the constant scapegoating of lurkers and newbies and maybe just your darned good position (as mafia) has increased your

finger

to a

hand

.

[Dickov]

I was referring to where you claim to have realized your folly in letting the "scumslip" of Raymondkurami by in #138 although in post #131, there is evidence suggesting you already had knowledge of the scumslip which you claim to have missed in #138. I merely highlighted the inconsistency.

Why am I not voting for you although I feel you may be Don BhavitGoyal? It may be Enigma, it may be Shadow Dancer and it may be you (based on Day 1 information ONLY) but a vote is all that I have and I would be remiss to relinquish it so easily again and have my voting choice used against me like I have against several of you. It may change though, depending on the performance of players in Day 1.

[Dickov]

You may have noticed it in #60 BhavitGoyal but let me break down your statement in #138

I am accusing you of bandwaggoning Enigma on two occasions
In post #138, your defence to bandwaggoning Enigma's vote on RaymondKurayami is a mere "co-incidence" and a byproduct of your failure to take notice of an "obvious scumslip"

Maybe it didn't cross your mind but I've observed that you have wagoned in this game and more importantly, twice you've wagonned off Enigma. Firstly you voted for me shortly after he did and after Enigma posted his suspicions about Raymond and his "scumslip" you quickly jumped ship too. It's insufficient to launch a concrete scumhunt against you but consider yourself fingered for a more solid reason this time.

It was a mere coincidence

. I voted for you earlier but he posted it earlier.
And

about the Raymond incident, it was foolish of me not to notice the obvious scumslip

. Maybe I need to be careful with these statements next time.

From what you have stated, it can only mean to me that you are saying that the scumslip had no part to play in your decision to wagon with Enigma (Post #62). According to what you have said, it's a

mere coincidence

that you wagonned. Post #62, Post #131, Post #142, Post #146 however all evidence that you had prior knowledge of a "scumslip" and that your decision to wagon may not have been based purely on

mere coincidence

.

Post #138 is key here because in post #138, you're telling me that a defence to you wagonning with Enigma was that you didn't realize the scumslip in aligning your vote with him but in everything else that you post, it seems to scream to me that you had knowledge of the "scumslip" and that you

retracted

your statement regarding co-incidence because

a) it no longer suits you to have a persona that you really are a mere bandwagon hopper
b) You committed a slip yourself and you're trying to cover up the inconsistency (albeit poorly)

Every post that you provide to me, about how you really knew about the scumslip and didn't wagon with Enigma for wagonning's sake just throws you deeper into the mire because of the Achilles Heel in Post #138 where you claimed to have wagonned because of coincidence.

Fuck, I'm confused.

[Dickov]

I noticed the wolf straight away but I don't buy it.

Firstly, during the random voting stage, it's the tendency for players to try and weaken the justification for their voting as much as they can in order to reduce the level of attention on them. If it looks like they have an agenda on other players, people might question them instead.

Take for instance, Silver justified his vote by highlighting the male anatomy in my user name.
Nameloc's initial vote was because of a small avatar.
Enigma's initial vote concerned a ludicrous improbability.
My vote was OMGUS (although it immediately l-1ed him)

Your

vote however disclaimed its

randomness

in the random voting stage by virtue of you including further justification for your reason to vote "against an SE player" and further suspicion is cast when the OTHER SE player rides along your vote.

That is why I have shortlisted you

and

Enigma

along with Bhavit in my circle of terror. However, if either one of you can be cleared of suspicion in my mind, I will herald it as an anomaly and continue discussions without the idea that

both

of you are mafia.

Regarding #59, all I can ask of you is that you don't apply the standard of a seasoned player to every player just because you are one. I genuinely did not at that point understand what my voting for silverbullet would result in and had I known, I wouldn't have done it.

Think about it, if I was indeed the mafia, would I intentionally draw so much attention to myself during the lynching stage when the chance of a mislych is 77.78%? The only justification for the action is an appeal to ignorance which you may choose to accept or ignore.

Furthermore, keeping your vote on me after I have attacked you shows to me that you may be uncomfortable with the level of attention you're receiving from me (and I don't blame you) and it also shows that instead of using your vote to hunt mafia, you are instead using it as a defence (similar to my OMGUS voting initially) which shows perhaps that you may already know who the mafia is and why it would be

detrimental

to hunt them.

Far fetched reasoning surely, but you can't blame me for trying.

[Dickov]

I know exactly how you feel dude. To me as well it's not a "scumslip". You just asked a rhetorical question and Enigma jumped on it like a vulture and the next thing you know Bhavit and Nameloc and the whole shang-bang of people who misunderstand rhetoric suddenly point the finger at you.

It's good though because currently because of an "imagined" scumslip, you're leading the lynch board. To me personally, I wouldn't go as far as to say you're not mafia, but you definitely don't deserve the fingers and fists of love from others because of your "scumslip".

Inb4DickovisbuddyingwithRaymondthereforehemustbemafia

[Dickov]

@Bhavit

If you are voted because you have a similar avatar to Shadow Dancer, it's a stupid reason and is acceptable in a RANDOM voting stage.

Read what Shadow Dancer said. He said that

waggoning an SE seems like a good idea to start D1

. Note that he did not say he was merely voting for an SE, he mentioned further that it was a

good idea

and a

good idea to

wagon

to add.

My concern is that he disguised a tactical

informed

decision with that of a seemingly random one. Guess who answers the call to arms on his wagon conveniently? Another SE.

In any case, you seem to be defending him, what do you mean he "gave a reason for being the lunar wolf..."? Anyone can see that he voted "to be the alpha wolf"... do you however see the underlying assumptions behind that decision?

[Dickov]

You may dislike the statement but you can't disclaim the truth of it.

With two mafia against seven townsfolk, mafia would do well to remain low key; occasionally throw accusations here and there and generally thrive in the shadows while the Townsfolks begin the rape of each other in the name of "scumhunting". Even without intending to, Raymond has been accused of providing a "scumslip", I have been accused of bringing you to L-1 and Bhavit has yet to fully explain to me satisfactorily the inconsistency in his wagoning with Enigma. On the surface of it, all three of us are doing a good job of biting the bullet for the mafia.

Granted, any of the three of us could ACTUALLY be mafia and justify our accusations/votes but what are the chances of that happening? I just cannot fathom real mafia actually taking the risk to hammer on day 1 and get lynched on day 2 which is why my defence of an appeal to ignorance holds water. Sure you can lambast me for hiding behind the veil of ignorance or you can credit me with quickly learning how the game should be played and bringing possible threats into the light despite an initial mistake.

You as an SE should know that a 1 town - 1 mafia trade will

always

be a pro-town exchange, would I (if I were mafia) undertake that on the first day?

Does Mafia really need to do much more on day 1? From my basic understanding of the game, Mafia is more likely to be a active lurker (i.e. Enigma and Shadow Dancer) as opposed to an inactive one (lollero, Koreanwonderboy and yourself). You've unvoted me and I'm grateful for that, but who do you suspect most right now? Care to share?

[Dickov]

@Dickov With 9 players in the game there is a 33% chance that one of the mafia is one of y'all that has already been accused. It may not seem like much to go on right now, but it's ONLY day 2 (i think). We can always retract our vote. So I don't feel like we're taking a risk at all. We're just trying to provoke discussion. My vote still stands.

__

2 mafia

_ = 22.22% chance of being lynched as mafia =/= 33% as you mentioned.
9 townsfolk

@Silverbullet999
I merely repeated myself because I felt you didn't understand the gist of what I'm saying.

I do however understand the danger in my logic as I realized it assumes the mafia play a perfect game when this often is far from the truth.

I merely identified the logical behavioral norm of a mafiosi at this stage and phase of the game, backed up my theory with odds and explained the detraction from the path most commonly taken. It may sound suspicious for me to use

argumentum ad ignoratium

but it's the truth (I understand "truth" varies from person to person in this game) Should I lie about it or fail to address it by ignoring it, the matter will surely return to haunt me in later days.

[Dickov]

-Bhav

Tell me why should I ask them questions if I have no evidence against them yet. I would like to see their analysis on the thread and if I found something scummy, then I would start pressurising them. And about you I havent found something suspicious yet.

If this is the case... then why honorable Bhavin... did you say this.

But still I think there are high chances of one being a mafia or even two.

What caused you to see a high chance that one of them are mafia?

When I said about high chances I meant to say that there are chances that one of them is mafia i.e it could be possible that one of them is mafia not necessary that one of them will be. Until I have some interaction with them, I wont post questions. Because I really want to see what they have to say about the thread.

That's a moot point. It's like me saying there's a high chance you could be mafia although this does not necessarily mean you are the mafia. What silverbullet (and probably me) want to see are the reasons

why

you suspect them.

The whole game you've been sitting on your arse waiting for a "slip" from other players makes me feel that you're on the defensive and a bit guarded from imposing too much of your personality into the game lest you be caught out. That is

why

I suspect you to be mafia.

It doesn't help town or even the game itself to go "

this guy is weird, that guy is weird

" without following up on anything. Finding suspicions in other people often have a sliver of basic evidence and a lot of hunch mindset. I want to see that sliver from you. It's not an excuse to say "I don't want to follow up without enough evidence" because if you don't have enough evidence, why

publicly

suspect someone then?

[Dickov]

That is a very nice point but we cant accuse them of lurking just yet. But

still I think there are high chances of one being a mafia or even two

. I would like to see Lollero post because he hasnt posted after the game began that is a really bad thing for town. If he does not post today, he should be sent a prod.

In fact.

I also find this act suspicious. Enigma may be a second mafia.

Vote:Raymondkurayami

Somethings fishy about him.

I Have my eyes on you ENIGMA

You are behaving scummy. Changing your vote after a very short period

Unvote
Vote:Raymond

I was always suspicious about you and now this makes me even more clearer

Hey Raymond, I have a question for you.

Who's your scum partner

So is it a Mafia Roleblocker?

You would know that one is mafia because

you are a mafia yourself

.

Basically, if you noticed the trend of your posting, you post relatively strong accusations but lack equally strong evidence. Look at your bolded words and how brash and uninformed you are in your accusations almost to the point of being ignorant. It's difficult to ascertain a certain degree of evidence in Mafia but you of all people have attacked

a)Raymond
b)Enigma
c)Lurkers

of being mafia without providing further clarification for your accusations. The worst is in your tirade with Raymond where you spoke to him almost as if you were speaking to a mafiosi. You and Ray both also share the sentiment that 3 lurkers and 2 mafia = mafia must be in the lurkers without setting up a line of interrogation and questioning.

Later on in the game,

your stance changes completely

after I start attacking you. You start demanding "further evidence and actually try to put up a facade of acquiring information;

I have a question for everybody

How would you react if you were at a L-1 situation

I am not sure whether KoreanBoy is scum or not,

not much evidence against him

.

Let me ask you guys, how much real evidence is there against me? Or is it just assumptions. I know this game is based of fos' but picking me is just bad.

No real evidence can ever be found in this game

. All you could find is little mistakes. And you have done one already. We have a strong evidence only against you. So theres a chance for you to be a mafia.

Tell me

why should I ask them questions if I have no evidence against them yet.

I would like to see their analysis on the thread and if I found something scummy, then I would start pressurising them. And about you I havent found something suspicious yet.

That is a very nice point but

we cant accuse them of lurking just yet

. I would like to see Lollero post because he hasnt posted after the game began that is a really bad thing for town. If he does not post today, he should be sent a prod.

This is where you get really interesting.

1) You failed to fully explain to me in a satisfactorily manner why you wagonned Enigma's vote on Raymond at first instance when you yourself said you should've noticed Raymond's scumslip before voting for him.

2) In the later stages of day 1, you start deciding you need more evidence before you can begin accusations yet you still leave your vote on RaymondKurayami without arguably any

real

evidence against him. (Contrast red words with bold words in the mess of quotations)

3) You make sure that you're involved in the discussion with short and sweet one liners occasionally and in truth, your participation in this thread so far borders on defending yourself against me. Yet you still make fleeting references to the "lurkers" as if to say "

Oh my, I'm still in the thread, why not select one of these juicy targets to lynch instead of me

?"

I'm grateful that silverbullet deflected his vote onto you. Because now I will sadistically see what happens to the frog when you increase the temperature of the pot.

Vote: BhavitGoyal

[Dickov]

You are digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself buddy.

I have already explained this. By high chances I didnt meant to say high but wanted to say there are chances.

You didn't mean to accuse strongly, you only meant to accuse?
I interpret this to be;
a) you did mean to accuse strongly but you're lying now
b) you are participating in the discussion by stating the obvious and avoiding the flak that the lurkers are getting without giving any

real

contribution

It was RVS and I was just joking.

Joking

in the RVS is a necessary and fundamental element of early voting strategy, as providing an agenda early on immediately puts attention on yourself. A "joke" vote would be vote:RaymondKurayami for having a faggy Bleach Avatar and being a general Wapanese fag.

That

is a joke vote.

Accusing someone (Enigma) of being mafia is a joke? Funny.

I found it scummy changing votes too quickly.

Let's examine

your

voting history.

1st vote: RaymondKurayami (something fishy)
2nd vote: Dickov (Wagonned Enigma, no explanation provided) <2nd on my wagon immediately after Enigma>
3rd vote: RaymondKurayami (wagonned Enigma again, merely said "nice point", insufficient explanation) <2nd on Raymond's wagon immediately after Enigma>

if you really believe someone who changes their votes frequently to be scummy, why do you follow that individual

twice

?

When I talked about it, I had noticed the scumslip. So, where is the point?

Dickov's notes: Note there is no mention of a need to re-read anything in this quotation i.e he fully understood the consequence of voting RaymondKurayami for the scumslip.

I never reread things and when Enigma mentioned it. I then reread it and noticed the scum slip

Dickov's notes:Later on, regarding the same issue, he mentions a need to "re-read" and that he should've noticed an obvious scumslip

This is the second time I've caught you taking a shit and trying to hide it. Did you or did you not notice Raymond's imaginary scumslip before you wagonned Enigma to vote him? Unsatisfactory at best.

I am not trying to lynch the lurkers, I just stated the possibility that one of them could be mafia.

Do you understand the consequence of saying that someone

could be

mafia? Town's Win Condition is to lynch all mafia and by saying someone

could be

mafia you are automatically implying they

should be

lynched. The obvious possibility will always remain; any one of us 9 players

could be

mafia. By virtue of you mentioning that the lurkers

could be

mafia (especially when you're taking heat from me), it tells me that you're propositioning another target for me.

You've still failed to address the change in your gung-ho attitude in early day 1 compared with the reserved, cautious, I-need-more-evidence attitude in latter day 1.

Unsatisfactory.

[Dickov]

Sorry. For your reference, everything in post #209 is quoted from Bhavit.

Also I only typed in his quote bubble to provide commentary. I thought it was sufficient to disclaim it with "Dickov's notes" but apparently that didn't work.

[Dickov]

Okay, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for voting against me. Rightly so L-1ing someone early in the game is a bad move and I deserve to be punished for it.

However, when you wagonned Enigma on Raymond; I'll quote only the most select and juiciest contradiction, which makes me hunt you down so vehemently.

And about the Raymond incident,

it was foolish of me not to notice the obvious scumslip

. Maybe I need to be careful with these statements next time.

^You said this as a defence to you wagonning on Raymond with Enigma, when I questionned you initially.

I cant understand what are you trying to say when I voted against Raymond

I was clear of the SCUMSLIP.

I noticed it way back in post#60 where Enigma mentioned it, so where the doubt Dickov

When Enigma talked about the scumslip, I noticed it and then

came to know about the scumslip

. From then on I am clear that it is a scumslip.

I feel you may be playing me to be the village idiot by pretending that you don't understand me while you're under pressure so I'll break this down for

everyone

to get into.

I personally

don't care i

f you wagon with Enigma or not and to me it's not even a "scumslip" on Raymond's part. So far I'm concerned with why you mentioned you weren't

aware

of said scumslip (

blue

quotation) although later posts by yourself desperately try to salvage an impression that you were aware of the scumslip (

red

quotation).

Your defence to this REPEATED query is basically

"What? I don't get it, what are you trying to say?"
"I already made my position clear, why are you still going over that?"
"I don't understand you"

despite my many walls of texts to you, which makes yourself all the more suspicious to me.

I also like how you answer only what you can answer and leave out what you can't e.g. "Enigma is Mafia" as a joke outside RVS and your convenient "stated possibility" of the lurkers (yet to answer). In fact, when I revised everything you said; the moment Enigma mentioned Lynch all Lurkers/Liars, you mention something in post #105 along the lines of

2. Lynch all lurkers?

Dont have any experience about this. But I think lurkers are more likely to be scums.

And then almost by miracle,

still on the same page as Enigma's suggestion to hang lurkers/liars

in post #108...

I am not sure whether KoreanBoy is scum or not, not much evidence against him.

I diverted attention towards him because

I thought he is online and did not post anything

.

Did you decide that this was a convenient time to again "state the possibility" that KoreanBoy

could be

mafia for lurking (as you did in post #88), as could anyone of us?

The proof is in the pudding fellow players.

[Dickov]

@nameloc1986
Who are your top suspects? List them.

And what do you mean I'm making up some good points

lately

? I've always made good points! /kid

@Bhavit
Sorry Bhavit, I'm afraid I can't let you off that easily. If you wanted to feign ignorance, you should have stuck to it instead of claiming that you knew about the scumslip

after

you posted saying that you should've known about it.

Your response to your recommendation of KoreanWonderBoy lynchage is unsatisfactory. You have stated the obvious by stating

what

you did but not

why

you did it.

Also I voted BhavitGoyal Mod

[Dickov]

What is V/LA?

[Dickov]

BTW, Dickov I never said I had TOP suspects.

Everyone knows that raymond is my (and a few others top suspect).................................................
...................raymond is not my only suspect BTW. I'll try to find something else on someone else later.

My oh my Nameloc1986, you're a little careless today.

[Dickov]

I'm going to V/LA for two days as I'm returning to England and it's a fifteen hour flight and another ten hours on the road travel.

I'm glad you decided to contribute your vote to something that I believe in but you're still just as suspicious as Bhavit and Shadow Dancer. Trying to bus your buddy after a long lur- absence?

I'm willing to give you and Shadow Dancer the benefit of the doubt or your "continued absence" through the game upon heat imposed on me and I'll see if you're willing to extend this courtesy to me.

And also, lol @ BhavitGoyal following the recommendation of (guess who!) again.
Also lol @BhavitGoyal again for "waiting for other people to scumhunt and not putting his efforts in." (I think I got knocked out by the irony.)

[Dickov]

@Shadow Dancer

Sorry, I justt cannot get rid of the conviction that Dickov is scum. A vast majority of posts comes from a scummy POV.
i.e.:
- continuously trying to anticipate eventual critique against his arguments
- perceive votes (his own and other's) mainly as a means to discurage other's voting (OMGUS centered voting and vote perception)
- trying to discurage me from keping my vote on him by trying to defame it as an OMGUS vote in iso 11.
- trying to cover his slips by WIFOM arguments
- likes the ray waggon for the simple reason it's not him (self-centered/survival-oriented mindset) (iso 12)
- iso 14 looks a bit too much as if he tries to establish an opinion that "mafia will do this or that" with the aim to mark himslef as unsuspicious in that regard, and, streangely enough, he seems to be pretty sure that also both bhavit and ray aren't scum... The second paragraph ("[...]...any of the three of us could ACTUALLY be mafia[...]") relativate that impression a bit, but he could have added this paragraph later qhile revising his post.
- thinks of

being lynched

as mafia instead of lynching mafia (in iso 15)

Of course most of these points alone on their own would rather look like typical newb mistakes, but combining them and taking into consideration what might be his freudian slips I think you get a pretty strong overall picture of scummyness.

My second suspect would be Andrew right now, I did not like his framing attempt, but I want to see a bit more from him first.

FoS Andrew

Point 1 : In what way is this scummy? How can it be scummy to predict the mindset of others you're debating with? How!?

Point 2 : OMGUS voting

initially

however if you look at the latest vote count, check out who I've attacked and voted for all this while compared with who that guy voted for? OMGUS? Maybe I'm selfish, maybe you guys define the end-game by writing a wiki and treating it as the mafia bible, but I have my own playstyle and if it challenges the gospel truth of the wiki then it's scummy?
E.g. Wiki says you shouldn't this or you shouldn't that because it's scummy. At the end of the day, who wrote the wiki? God? Or other experienced players like yourself?

Don't try to mould the meta-game to suit yourself thanks.

Point 3 : If I wanted to discourage you from voting for me would I use OMGUS as a reason? Bear in mind that the moment I say OMGUS, you will

NOT

retract your vote. Why?

Think about it, people call you out on OMGUS and you comply

; use your own standards to judge that action and tell me if that is scummy or not.

Point 4 : WIFOM? That's like the ad infinitum stuff right? How the hell have I infinitied anything? By the "If I were mafia, would I?" rhetoric?
You want honesty and when it's presented you don't accept it. Do I have a duty to please you in this game?

Point 5 : Yes, I'm a selfish player, I don't want to die after investing so much in the game. I must be scum. (See point 2)

Point 6 : Invalid. I don't think Bhavit is scum? Have you even read what I've posted? Also, to catch you out on your bullshit, you did a "3 amigoes" analogy with the SEs and IC of the game and how it's unlikely that you can't be mafia. Notice how you did exactly what I did when you said "eliminating myself from the equation...". Hypocritical scumslip much?

[Dickov]

@Shadow Dancer

You said it was Oppurtunistic.Scum.Mindset to take delight in Ray's wagon.
Is that really capitalizing on opportunity? I basically

defended

the guy by saying that anyone who voted for him is deluded with imagination.

I didn't take delight in anything. I had to measure out a certain neutrality in my posts. The moment I say I'm unhappy that he's leading lynchboards for the wrong reasons, it'll be called buddying and I'll be called scummy for that.
The moment I disclaim any attachment to Ray and his wagon, I'm showing O.S.M.
(And Yes, I think this is WIFOM ergo I am scum correct?)

Damned if you do/don't?

Consider the fact that for the first 8 pages, I lie low and absent-mindedly promote anti-town behavior (OMGUS, no lynch etc). I get called out on the bullshit by you and Enigma. Post page 8, I make a novice attempt at scumhunting and Enigma labels my hunting of Bhavit as a "pointless argument" yet champions discussion as the gold of the masses in later posts. Also....

Why risk an accidental quicklynch by some one who might just be an overstrained newb? That would be just horribly bad.

Looks like when playing the benelovent IC didn't work you quickly ditched it and started attacking the

overstrained newb

who just wouldn't do as he was told.

[Dickov]

You know you are making bad arguments and still bloat them out - maybe because you consider fake activity a good town tell.
And also alleged self-critique might spare you one vote or another - or you might have thought so.

I don't get what you're trying to fish at here. The initial argument you stated was that I was at fault for

anticipating the ideas of others

. Do you honestly

just speak your mind

? Notice that I did (regarding why I L1-ed Silver) and I was immediately faulted for WIFOMing and trying to hide behind the newb card. When I insure myself against potential misreads it's scumlike. All I can say is "Bah".

You OMGUS vote silver to L-1.
You OMGUS vote Enigma.
You threaten to OMGUS vote any one who votes you.
You perceive my vote as OMGUS (or at least pretend - i.e. lie about it - to).
All in all you seem to perceive votes mainly for their OMGUS quality and as means to discurage others.

a) No solid argument for this, I already explained myself and was told not to hide behind newb card
b) I OMGUSed voted for Enigma at a relatively early point in the game

(a little beyond RVS

) when I had learned not to L-1 others. I wouldn't think it would return to haunt me.
c) Self-defence mechanism. And look at the vote count. Are you voted for by me? (Not yet at least)
d) A perception of OMGUS or a penchant for anticipating the intent of others? It's only natural to think that whoever attacks you is scum because I know who I am.
e) If you looked at who I voted for and the

manner

in which that individual is voted for, in what way is that application of the ideals of OMGUS?

You didn't reference the wiki granted, but your staunch wording of certain phrases appears in many of the wiki articles I have read (maybe paraphrased)

This is not the first time that you explicitely perceive votes mainly as a means to discurage other people's voting.

This is not a town mindset

.

Calling out a newb for asking the mod unnecessary questions

is not scum hunting

, it's an attempt in newb framing. A very clumsy attempt, though.

The mere aim od surviving

does in no way justify any means

(unless you are asurvivor - no, there are none in this game...).

Notice italicized words. While you don't reference the wiki, you leave your phrasing in the absolute. This suggests to me that you may be abusing your position as an IC, thinking that others follow your gospel word by virtue of your experience. I don't like how you at times act like the protective IC, governing the interests of newbies yet you at times also lay down the law on arguably newbie mistakes stating that you do not accept such and such. It's not that I disagree completely with what you say, it's that your form and temperament seems to fluctuate just as mine does.

Intelligent sounding jibe - ad Hominem and just as bad as Ad absurdum

Some plain facts for

you

Mafia is a game - it's a game essentially. You don't blame a basketball player for trying a shot himself instead of passing. People play a game for different reasons. As long as I fulfil my WINCON, it doesn't matter to me HOW I fulfil it. Another analogy; Survivor TV series, some play the good guy, some play the bad.
Stating the obvious of mafia does not in any way address my point. Yes it's a game, yes my intent is to track down scum and yes mafia is a team game. How does it in any way affect how I DISLIKE dying?

Regarding Raymond's waggon, you just cherry picked what you liked from my statement and moulded it in a way that villainized me. Sure it sounds bad when Shadow Dancer's big bad italized words appear in front of everyone yet you conveniently ignored the fact that I

DID

defend him by citing the weakness of Enigma's "scumslip". To each his own I suppose.

Might be rushed, but I'm headed out for a bit. Will elaborate later.

[Dickov]

Replace me please.

Thanks guys, it was fun while it lasted. I hope to have some time to play again in the future.

[Dickov]

University started and I'm a fresher rep. Ah well.

[Dickov]

What an exciting game. Too bad I missed it.