Newbie 1007 - When in Rome, Game Over!

[doreah]

Vote: Pizzaplate

For being made of delicious pizza.

[doreah]

I figured these were all "random" votes, so I don't mind if random.org thinks I'm scummy. Then again, perhaps thinking pizza is delicious is a scum tell, but it seems more like a non-zombie tell.

[doreah]

1. Don't know yet. I would assume that scum is harder, because town just needs to be truthful. Then again, hunting requires logic and deduction... hmm.
2. I'm confused on what a Lurker vs Active Lurker vs Active person is (after reading a few Newbie games). In most forums, "lurking" is good behaviour. Here, I would assume if you have nothing to add, even if you're just reading the thread, you're considered Lurking?
3. I don't have a policy on this yet, but I think lying would be anti-town... unless the person is trying to mislead scum... but that gets into WIFOM right? So I'm against lying and it would probably factor into whether I vote for someone or not.

Completely off topic (I think I am allowed a tiny bit of that?): Several anime avatars here Lynch all non-anime avatars!

[doreah]

I'd like to do a quick review to get some content here. If I have a neutral or town read on you, I haven't included you below. (I'm probably too new to notice anything yet, and maybe I'm moving too fast? I don't know. Reading old games is fun, I've been picking up on the terms quickly, but the games go faster when they're not being updated in real time.)

Flomo: We really haven't heard from you. We need something.

If I was going to start a bandwagon at this stage, I'd pick you.

I choose you!

nikitakit: Possible OMGUS. Not a scum tell, however, there is a (tiny) bandwagon starting.
Yenros: Seemed a little defensive. Doesn't indicate scum, but worth keeping in mind.

I am going to UNVOTE: Pizzaplate, VOTE: Flomo, at this stage, for lack of a viable, clear scummy target.

[doreah]

Hi all,

I wanted to update my isos to take into account the new page and a half of content since last week. I wanted to post more, but there just wasn't much activity until Monday!

Flomo: He's completely gone and I'm not going to waste my vote on him anymore. I will let his replacement do the talking.
FEMM: You haven't seriously voted for anyone yet. Why do you want your vote on Splasherz? You haven't given a reasoning on that. I understand you didn't want to bring nikitakit to L-1 (in post #50/65, even though because of Beefster's change of vote, you would not have), but please explain why your Splasherz vote is now serious.
Splasherz: Brothers don't hog computers for a whole week (and Civ5 didn't come out until yesterday!). Serious concerns with the lack of content here. I'm a girl too, but I didn't make a separate post with no content to say so.
nikitakit: I don't see a serious vote from you either, just your original "not" OMGUS. Who is scum, in your mind? Mothrax? You find him most suspicious, but you don't vote for him. Why?

I think part of the problem is that we're missing two full bodies. If our scum are just lurking (say, for example the scum is Flomo and Splasherz), and the rest of us are just pointing fingers at each other, then how can we get anywhere? That is disappointing at least. I know I'm afraid to point the finger on someone who might end up town, but I think some people need to start making decisions (gut, logic, bandwagon, whatever!).

UNVOTE: Flomo
And because I need to take my own advice, and not be wishy-washy, I VOTE: FEMM.

[doreah]

Nikitakit: I don't have a scum read on him. OMGUS or random vote, he hasn't behaved scummy, as far as I can tell. I did ask for a serious vote from him though in my last post.
Mothrax: Also neutral. Doing ISOs for everyone rather than just scum seems personal preference. IioA aside, I feel he was trying to add to the discussion. He did give a conclusion of sorts for each of his iso reports and he did state before he posted them that they were his "personal" isos. Perhaps he should have reworked them before posting, but having to translate them too probably is a lot of work.
Yenros: Neutral read. When he specifically voted for someone who didn't have a vote, it seemed to be an honest, if unnecessary, reasoning.

Honestly, I didn't say anything about the last two in my most recent post because I had nothing negative to say about them.

[doreah]

@ Beefster:
I originally voted for Flomo to encourage him to join the game. Obviously it didn't work. My second vote was for FEMM... I think that's a vote for a legitimately active person, unless you consider her to be active lurking? I think I'm still confused by those terms.

I voted for FEMM in 72 because I felt she hadn't given a reason for her Splasherz vote in her iso 6. She responded in iso 9 with a mostly reasonable explanation. I'm keeping my vote on her because she immediately changed her vote after I pointed it out, which seems scummy.

I'll switch to

VOTE: Pizzaplate

. Pressure on somone who is actually present for now. And I don't want nik @ L-1.

So her vote choices are Pizzaplate and Nikitakit. It is implied that she would vote for Nikitakit if he wasn't at L2 but instead, she votes for the same person Nikitakit is voting for. If she feels Nikitakit is scum, it's probably a bad idea to vote with him. That doesn't make her scummy, but at least she's worth a vote at this point.

I hope we get replacements for Flomo and Splasherz next week - we've only got a week and a bit worth of discussion time left.

[doreah]

@ all, re my absence: I did note in my iso 4 that I had wanted to update, but there hadn't been much activity between my last post (Tues, 14th) and Monday (20th). At least, not activity that I could comment on. There were a lot of "I'll post later" posts during that week, until mothrax posted his personal isos... then I didn't have a chance to post until Weds. I have tried to make my posts content-full and not fluff, so I don't post if I have nothing to say, or if I'm planning to post later.

I guess the major problem is that I have been fairly passive: I don't find any of the bandwagons really scummy yet (maybe I'm looking for something that's never that obvious). I want to go with my gut, but it's only telling me people are town! And of course, we're still a person short. And finally, I guess I don't know how to scum hunt. I will go back to the wiki for hints/tips.

[doreah]

@ Mothrax:
When you return, please clarify your ISO 15. I didn't catch this before, but "beefsteak"? That seems derogatory, defensive and wasn't necessary. I also see that you've only voted twice: once for Nikitakit, and once for Beefster.

I think you voted for Nikitakit to make it look like you're not scum buddies. It was win-win: if a noob accidentally lynched, you would look town, and if another bandwagon started instead, later on you could point to your earlier vote as proof that you thought he was scummy first.

In your iso 6 you said:

Beefster:
overall leaning town, but not ruling out ICscum

Beefster later IGMEOUs you (I think for active lurking), so only hours after Beefster gets his first vote, you suddenly suspect him (iso 11 - hours after the first vote for him), then vote in iso 15. Since then, you've had a couple posts, but I think you're trying to stay under the radar.

If you're not scum, who do you think is - you've mentioned Nikitakit*, Beefster and Pizzaplate so far. Do you still think Pizzaplate is scummy, or has someone else caught your attention?

VOTE: Mothrax

@ all: Nikitakit is very very likely scum now, but I'd like to get more discussion and not press a lynch right away. I look forward to Substrike22's post.

[doreah]

Apologies to all, it was Canadian Thanksgiving, so I was in a turkey stupor the last few days.

Nikitakit, you are dangerously close to a lynch. Do you have anything to say?

My reread of the situation doesn't change my opinion at all on Nikitakit or Mothrax. Mothrax, you leave a lot open when you say that Nikitakit and Pizzaplate are scummy, as well as two "unnamed" people (as you say your two scum picks aren't partners). That's four of seven players, and gives you a lot of wiggle room if either of your picks flips town.

Both of you (Nikitakit and Mothrax) were first "suspicious" of each other, and I think you've both used that as a mask to hide you as town ("I suspected him first!").

[doreah]

I am out of town until Wednesday (Thursday will be my iso review). I just wanted to mention a couple things for now.

To reply to Pizza: I guessed, incorrectly, that nikitakit was scum based on my theory (in iso 8) that mothrax and nikitakit were pointing fingers at each other to make both of them seem more townie. There was also the large case that others had put together that, while I felt it was circumstantial, it "fit" with my theory that mothrax was scum.

Now, I will have to do a more in depth review on Thursday, but my preliminary scummy picks: still Mothrax, and I think Thymin. He has been in the back of my mind for his aggressive vote strategy for Beefster from the start, but I have no proof yet, just a feeling).

[doreah]

I am sorry for not posting yesterday, and I just worked a 13 hour shift. Will attempt to reply tomorrow.

[doreah]

Ok... here is my analysis (again, sorry for the delay). Everyone is suspicious! In alphabetical order...

Mothrax:
You were my original top subject (after my lurker and RQS votes), however, as I was wrong about Nikitakit I have had to re-evaluate the reason I chose you as scum.
1) Second person to vote for Beefster, our IC and cop.
Not good, and looks like you were trying to help a quick bandwagon on the "scummiest looking" town.
2) Vote on Nikitakit again (which was a hammer), saying you have given many reasons for this.
In my review of your iso, I see only that he OMGUSed possibly, and he was defensive, in your iso 6. In fact, I really don't see any reasons why you voted for Nikitakit except that you said he was defensive in your iso 6 and 19. Not good, I feel your reasoning was really weak.

Pizzaplate is the only one left of your previous scumpicks (again, the other two have turned out town). Who is your other pick?

Pizzaplate:
1) Second vote on Nikitakit for OMGUS.
This was following Mothrax, which looks bad if he's scum.
2) Third vote on Beefster, again following Mothrax.
Looks bad, especially as you probably know better than to lynch the IC first day (even if he could be scum).
3) Voted again for Nikitakit, helping lynch another town.

How sure are you that Thymin is scum? Why is he more scummy than Mothrax?

Substrike22:
1) Joined a bandwagon without any analysis.
Not good, feels anti town (you haven't given us enough to work with).
2) Giant post about Nikitakit - that amounts to nothing, as he is town.
Almost like you are trying to overwhelm us with "facts" with your post about Nikitakit (iso 8).

We haven't heard from you since (I can't complain much as I am also guilty of this). However, in iso 14 you write: "I'd like to elaborate more but I don't want to give scum a shopping list." I'd like to know who you think is scum now, especially since your only attack has been on a townie.

Thymin:
I am sorry to hear about your loss, and I don't want to seem heartless so I do understand if you are unable to respond. To continue the game I have to post my comments though.

1) First vote on Beefster.
Doesn't look good, but could be a mistake.
2) Vote on Nikitakit.
No real analysis, just bandwagon jumping, which is bad. In fact, I see no previous comments about Nikitakit - in fact nothing until your iso 10 where you state that the vote was because of his defensiveness and because you wanted to "trap" scum by voting for him.

If Mothrax is your scumbuddy, then you gave him the leg up to hammer Nikitakit. He just had to wait long enough to ensure that it didn't look like a quickhammer.

Not voting yet, but Mothrax and Thymin are my highest scumpicks. Hope to hear from Substrike22, Mothrax and Thymin soon!

[doreah]

Bah, if I had only seen Pizzaplate's last post! I was so sure he was town, I only threw out those questions for him to pretend that I didn't think that. And in hindsight, I should have begged people to vote Mothrax with me (and should have been suspicious why people were not).

Glad to hear your mom is ok Haylen - and hope your foot heals soon!