Newbie 1006 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[boberz]

Okay so andrew thinks that a 'random' vote coincidentally for the person he knows is random. So for clearly trying to misrepresent in the random vote stage, having his vote tactically on a player he obviously wants to mislynch me immediately.

Also the fact Zdenek is clearly trying to buddy Zach makes me very suspicious. There is no reason to apologise for a random vote so it is clearly a fear of someone striking in their first post.

vote zdenek

Cos he is clearly scum with andrew (I am not joking this is serious and I have so caught the scum already. Someone join me on this wagon it is looking hot.

A few questions:

How much mafia have you played?
How often are you planning to be online to play?
Who are you going to vote for?

[boberz]

But it wasnt random, it might have been policy, or just because he is scared of me. Or perhaps he thinks that because I know him I will take a random vote more readily without showing it for what it really is. Scummy.

Bandwagons are not scummy they are very protown, join me and Ill show you.

Unfortuantly I am guilty of everything you accuse me of you accuse me of Rydon but it just is not scummy. Why do you think scum would do what I have done? WHat si the logic behind it?

[boberz]

No Rydon, don't wait for someone else to back either you or me then side with them make your own decision. Am I right or am I wrong?

Are bandwagons scummy, if so why?
Was andrew's vote 'random' if so why am I sucmmy for accusing him of it not being?

[boberz]

It clearly was not random, he even recognised it was because he had played with me before. That means it was not random it may be justifyable but it is not random.

Meanwhile zdenek is obv scum, cmon everyone jump on the wagon.

[boberz]

So he roled a dice and it coincidentally landed on me, the player who he has played with before. I think not. Even if the vote looks silly there is motive behind it, there is nothing random in a random vote unless a random event is used to determine it, making the whole process pointless.

Zdenek's vote is just another example of a vote that looks random but in actual fact there was some kind of thought behind it. It is not random. SO it deserves to be analysed.

And how dare you say carry on. That is as much your responsibility as anyone elses. That is clearly an attempt to stifle discussion.

---

Cross post.

[boberz]

@gaul.

boberz post is very weird.

Thank you.

you're voting someone in the dark

Not that in the dark really. He is scum after all.

leaded by a hidden motive

From what do you infer that I have a hidden motive. Or are you just saying that to justify what you just said? Any evidence of this?

even worst is that you ask people to join the bandwagon

Why is this worse? In fact why on earth is this bad. He is scum I made a pretty good case considering it is early game, people should join me.

Rydonmower is voting for boberz because he thinks his reason for the voting is overreacting and he finds the "join the wagon", in his words, "extremely, extremely scummy behaviour". I find this to be logic and justified, despite that we have little information and not all people have posted yet, so this can also be wrong. We'll see... for now i'm holding my vote, waiting for everyone to speak up.

But I asked him why it was scummy and he couldnt answer. So he didnt really find it funny, he was just a bit suprised I did something other than random vote and assumed it was scummy. It was not.

for now i'm holding my vote, waiting for everyone to speak up.

Cop out.

[boberz]

I mean you copped out, meaning you wimped out of voting. An expression not referring to any kind of inspector!!!

Also i don't see anything wrong in waiting for people to come on and post.

Well there is something wrong. You are hedging your bets, not prepard to make a decision or a mistake. Sounds like a scum mentality to me.

It can be true, but i just can't accept your word for it. After all if your scum you'll be trying to trick me.

Wagon me to find out if I am lying then. You wont do anything sitting there paranoid.

Once again you're assuming you're right and you can't be sure of that, unless you're scum or the cop.

Stop talking about the cop. And whether right or wrong you should join me on the wagon, or wagon me.

Saying someone is mafia is not true just because you say it. Other votes might been or not random, but yours is not. You thinking someone is scum doesn't actually makes them scum.

Not many players use random number generators and those who do are wrong. So very few votes are random imo. Me thinking someone is scummy does make them worth a wagon though. Unless you are too scared of me finding out who is who.

I would say "your welcome" but i'm not really sure why you're thanking me. To me buddying is also a scum tell.

Tis you who complimented me so you are the guilty party.

You can't know that for sure.

No, but I am a fair bit more sure than anyone else atm.

---

Cross post.

[boberz]

@Rydon: define random.

I dont care what kind of thought it was however stupid I am going to analyse them. Unless he turns up and tells me he roled a dice I am not going to consider it random.

Okay, perhaps 'Carry on' wasn't the best phrase to use. I was suggesting we get on with the game, instead of getting stuck on trivial matters like what constitutes a random vote. But then you accuse me of 'attempting to stifle discussion?
1. If I were scum, attempting to stifle discussion would probably be picked out pretty quick, therefore, I would not do it.
2. The phrase 'Carry on' conveys that we should move on into more discussion, not stifling anything.

1/ WIFOM (circular logic leading to nowhere)
2/ Well go and carry on then, after saying carry on you havent actually done that.

Hm? I thought I did a pretty good job of explaining why it was scummy. I had no comment regarding andrew's vote, but I did explain my reasoning behind your (likely scummy) use of bandwagoning.

Bandwagoning isnt scummy. You said why you thought it might be, but then I contradicted you and asked you for logic regarding why it might be scummy. You failed to explain this.

---

In the meantime, I have to say my suspicions on boberz have been set in stone. I highly doubt I'll be changing my vote before lynching time.

lol

[boberz]

My vote was random

How did you choose who to vote for then?

[boberz]

Of Boberz: Trying really hard to get someone hammered ASAP.

I did no such thing.

You're very zealous about scum hunting. On day one, this is the right stance. With nothing else to go on, supporting or opposing you are our only choices.

Thank you.

I would side with you to avoid a no lynch, but I'm not eager to jump on a bandwagon this early.

The earlier on in the game the more we need bandwagons. And I still don't like the assumption we are going to lynch him.

Let's here what other people have to say, and maybe we'll actually find a scum instead of a noob

If everyone says that (which about three people have now) then nobody would post. Think about how silly this statement is.

[boberz]

Post 27 is fence sitting at it's finest. Supporting and opposing Boberz are not the only possible options at this point in the game. You can also look at the reactions to Boberz vote as well, or take your own stance on someone else's play to this point.

Thank you, I was trying to demonstrate this by doing rather than saying.

Do as I do and all that.

---

On that point what do you make of the game so far Zach

[boberz]

@Pasch your avatar is not working for me, it might just be me but worth a mention.

Wingless, please may you get an avatar I like them if not dont worry.

[boberz]

I like wingless. Actually what a legend.

[boberz]

Sounds exciting

[boberz]

Any thoughts Zach?

[boberz]

I think you're reading too much into Andrew and Zdenek's RVS votes. People don't always cast votes that are truly random but rather arbitrary. You'll often see it done with reasoning similar to what they came up with. (My read on both is pretty null)

I agree but if we make a massive thing of RVS votes we can stamp them pout completely.

Based on what both players actually did, I would have expected your vote to go on Andrew

Yes but then every newb would scream OMGUS and we would be into the world of stock tells much too early.

(Though you seem to have misinterpreted Zdenek's apology post, and I can understand the vote based on how you explained your interpretation of the post.)

I read it correctly but just pretended to misunderstand so I had a reason to vote.

How can i be SE or IC? Do i have to win heaps of games?

Nothing so hard. SE means you have played atleast 2 games (in my case about a dozen) an IC means you have played atleast 5 games, had your standard checked by a listmod and have read the 'how to be an IC' guide.

[boberz]

There is a wiki here:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

A newbie guide here:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide

IC guide here:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... _a_good_IC

My faourite thing in the wiki (and why half the players on here (probably including me) are crap):
http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=12751

---

I realise that the following post is going to need explaining:

I read it correctly but just pretended to misunderstand so I had a reason to vote.

Essentially I think the RVS is completely backward. It is full of people without motive making their votes look arbitary, except scum who are able to gain early position without explanation required. I prefer people with a motive making their votes look as serious as possible however arbitary the vote is.

[boberz]

Fair enough.

[boberz]

What misfired? Why do that?

[boberz]

I wonder what Pasch has to say about being at L-2...

Nobody put him at L-1 please in case scum try a quick hammer.

[boberz]

Well, I saw the list of names, and saw Zachrules. I immediately thought of Zach Morris from Saved by the Bell, and then thought, Zach Morris doesn't rule at all.

So it wasnt random it was based on the extent to which Zach Morris rules. See what I mean however shaky the arbitrary vote is somethig is driving it in this case andrew's previous experience with me.

About being opposed to the RVS and wanting to stomp it out. I guess the way you think would be best to do it is through the RQS, and then let that lead to a vote?

Not really I prefer my, attack someone with a massive stretch then get into an argument about theory and make sure I end up wagonned in the first few pages (it happened). But the RQS is better than the RVS.

It actually makes it harder for scum because town end up more organised and in a more analytical mood. It creates better scumhunting conditions.

---

I agree that no second guessing the mod has occured, but the robo was right to clarify he did it randomly (I had assumed this anyway but worth drawing attention to)

[boberz]

Also, could you actually say WHO you're quoting in your posts? I find myself ignoring almost every point you try to make because you're not being clear.

I will in future. But dont ignore, go and find out.

Aside from that Pasch is clearly wrong.

[boberz]

Back that up, or are you just blustering about? There's no substance to your arguments either. Wingless is new and isn't expected to know better. You're just blowing a lot of hot air and hoping that you'll be followed if you yell louder.

I like leading town it is fun. Not scummy though.

You know what, you convinced me. You're a bigger threat than Wingless. And Zdenek makes a good point. Hopefully Wingless will shape up. You have no such excuse Boberz.

This is not actually an accusation just words.

---

But for a full reason why everybody who read your post knows you are wrong:

I wasn't aware that waiting until everyone had posted at least once was fence sitting. Since we have twenty days for the first vote, I saw no reason to jump on anyone immediately. Then I saw something worth pointing out.

Ignorance is no defence. It is fence sitting.

We need all the time we can get, if he gave you a year would you wait a week before switching your brain on? I hope not. It is just a ludicrous delaying tactic, I chance to see how the game is going to play out.

Boberz's claim that he had discovered the whole answer from three posts was absurd. I suspect he is just using his status and experience here to push his own view.

All correct except the status thing. I did a similar thing in my first ever game on the site with no 'status. Tbh I dont have a 'status' now.

Two people, voting for different people, and you have the answer?

Probably not, but hey I was closer than anyone else.

That's more OMGUS than anything else, and as someone who's supposed to be a role model for the new folks, you should know better.

OMGUS doesnt work, in fact none of the stock tells work imo. Even the few that do work only work in very small contexts certainly not there, and you didnt even go near explaining any kind of context. But hey, who need actually think.

If every newb that played with me had my approach to the RVS I would be a proud man.

On a more serious note, dont you think this is a tad emotional for an internet game.

I find myself ignoring almost every point you try to make

The harder somebody is to read the harder you should try, I will try to make my posts easier to read but anybody will tell you this is bad.

Rydon's position not to jump on a bandwagon until he actually believes in his position is the correct one. Letting someone lead you by the nose makes you passive. Don't be passive.

He can start his own wagon if he wants, if it is any good I may jump on it. But bandwagons are healthy and throwing mud at me for leading them is utter rubbish. Scared of an aggressive scumhunter?

---

The stuff on wingless was boring. Yoiu call him town then moan about how he plays. Well news for you, he made himself look like a townie, you have three votes and a promise of a fourth if you dont improve, who cant play mafia?

---

Now Pasch be careful next itme you come at me otherwise you could end up on a noose. Three others have positioned the rope for us.

[boberz]

firmly stand that Boberz is just trying to hammer someone, and doesn't care who.

You liar. You dirty stinking rabid smelling liar.

Twice he refuses to put his money where his mouth is and asks for support of his decisions.

Or I was making sure he wasnt going to come and lurk.

u caught a scum in 3 posts- i notice you dont do this in last game

I cannot remember exactly which our last game was, but I imagine I found reason to attack atleast one person on a stretched point, then ordered a bandwagon. All this succeeded in doing was to ensure a bandwagon arose on myself. Any similarities. I probably hadnt hit scum in one post but I was closer to it than anyone else.

ultimate role fishing, then states that cop out means not voting

Cop out is a phrase that means fence sitting/delaying a decision. It is nothing to do with the roles in this game.

1st question so he knows whos pro and who to kill and who to mislynch (newbs)
2nd question so he knows voting patterns etc
3rd so he knows who to hammer

You know this is tosh.

---

Oh dear lord I hope you guys (the SEs) are just joking around. And if you are, I would appreciate it if you would start actually playing, thanks.

Sort of. I am playing properly just ensuring we have a bit of info to go off. It is better than having someone vote 'boberz because it sounds like roberz' which has happened before.

no saying that you got both scum on the 4th post is NOT testing the waters. that is not scumhunting, imagine how a newb would react- he also said he didnt want to vote me so i could cry OMGUS. what kind of a shit excuse is that- so i wont vote confrimed scum cos he has a vote on me?

Andrew you are a fool. I am clearly not suggesting I hit scum on the 4th post am I? I am clearly just ensuring we dont enter RVS, and making sure we get some nice info and proper bandwagons.OMGUS doesnt work andrew, I dont care for wiki tells at all tbh. Furthermore is it really OMGUS, were you really attacking me am I really likely to get scared as either faction after your two posts.

[boberz]

You liar. You dirty stinking rabid smelling liar.

You know this is tosh.

Andrew you are a fool. I am clearly not suggesting I hit scum on the 4th post am I? I am clearly just ensuring we dont enter RVS, and making sure we get some nice info and proper bandwagons.OMGUS doesnt work andrew, I dont care for wiki tells at all tbh. Furthermore is it really OMGUS, were you really attacking me am I really likely to get scared as either faction after your two posts.

Also keep in mind his snarky little comments inside his quotes, calling people fools and "idiot who can't play mafia". He's flipping out, losing his cool, and relying on insults rather than arguments.

That, my friend, is anti-town. Playing on emotions rather than thinking through the issue. He's not gonna find scum this way, but he'll sure as hell get someone lynched for challenging him. That kind of play doesn't help town, it only helps him survive and dominate. He'll sacrifice townies who disagree with him in order to make himself feel stronger.

You wanted to know what my case was, Wisa? I've told you twice already. I've shown you what Boberz is going to do for the rest of the game, and how it's incredibly beneficial to him, and hinders town. Beating up on people doesn't flush out scum. Scum know not to engage so hard. Townies who disagree are the ones who'll fight back, as I am right now. Boberz is trying to kill the competition, not the scum. His position is geared towards ensuring that he lives longer and isn't lynched himself. Isn't that exactly what scum try to do?

Hang on. You lied. The accusation was tosh and andrew was being a fool (even thought I know he is not a fool). Dont change the terms of the debate now. He will find scum this way, he has before. It is not for you to say what I will do for the whole game, go and look at my meta if you want you will see me doing this in day 1 in every one of them. My position is geared to lynching scum not saving myself. If I was intent on saving myself why would I play in such a way that I get a day 1 wagon on myself in every game I play. Come on atleast make your accusations true.

I'm still pretty happy with my vote on boberz, but I don't think I'll be too disappointed if he's not lynched this evening.

Sitting on the fence. If you vot eme make a nice big juicy accusation give me something to defend.

[boberz]

Wisa is wise. Where have you been all my life?

You should take someone to L-1 if you think that their lynch would be acceptable and at an acceptable time. There is no set time. But iif that person is lynched quickly the L-1 voter will get as much stick as the hammerer.

[boberz]

(which is an opinion, not a fact),

This is where you are really wrong. Take a deep breath imagine both Wisa and I are town for a second and you will realise it does all make sense our way as well and you have your scumtinted glasses on.

attempts to influence others

This is a protown thing to do. I dont care what you say I am right.

His unwillingness and inability to actually back up his claims

Which claims?

His goal is just to kill the people he chooses, whether they be innocent or guilty.

Dirty rotten liar. Dirty rotten liar. Dirty rotten liar.

Go and quote one place where I have said I am just going to kill innocents. You will fail. Because I didnt. You are wrong,you are an embarrasment to town and should just dig a hole and sit in it. Take a laptop with you and reread the thread while your at it.

[boberz]

(which is an opinion, not a fact),

This is where you are really wrong. Take a deep breath imagine both Wisa and I are town for a second and you will realise it does all make sense our way as well and you have your scumtinted glasses on.

attempts to influence others

This is a protown thing to do. I dont care what you say I am right.

His unwillingness and inability to actually back up his claims

Which claims?

His goal is just to kill the people he chooses, whether they be innocent or guilty.

Dirty rotten liar. Dirty rotten liar. Dirty rotten liar.

Go and quote one place where I have said I am just going to kill innocents. You will fail. Because I didnt. You are wrong,you are an embarrasment to town and should just dig a hole and sit in it. Take a laptop with you and reread the thread while your at it.

Lots of rage with no substance. Keep in mind, you're defending yourself at L-2, and you're doing a terrible job of it.

I am always wagoned early game. Then people realise I am just being different not being scummy. But you give me nhing to defend aganst, provide evidence. One more post like that and I will find myself a nice juicy new target with the fist letter 'P'.

[boberz]

I was mistaken here. Zdenek changed his vote. Still, other than insults and whining, Boberz has offered no defense and no proof to his claims. I'd hate to imagine the string of wailing and profanity we'll see when you're closer to being lynched...

Which claims? (for the second time of asking).

And where was the profanity?

Eitherway it is all irrelevant you have shown othingof value in your entire ausation.

[boberz]

Because it is more than just not voting. 'Cop-out' is a really common phrase where I come from. It obviously isn't on andrew land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cop_out
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cop%20out

How on earth would I be considering let alone mentioning the cop as either faction in that situation. It makes a lot more sens if you assume I mean not taking responsibility/wimping out or copping out.

---
I am not in aworld of my own here.

[boberz]

Boberz is playing passive-aggressively

Nothing passive about it.

[boberz]

His rationale is that I am challenging him, not that I'm scum.

My rationale is that you are not latching on to simple arguments. That you are tunnelling to a heavy degree. And you clearly lack basic critical thinking skills required for a town win.

He's in just as much hot water as I am, except he's just ranting and yelling, and misunderstanding my posts... I'm offering a conclusion based on his consistent attitude.

I am not, whenever I get enough time I walk in here and prove you wrong. Found any claims I haven't substantiated? Excused your lying yet? Stopped tunnelling yet? No you are avoiding as much as me, I just avoid the useless stuff, you avoid the stuff that could get you hung.

Self-preservation, without a serious attempt to kill someone you claim to be scum?

How about if I am not sure of your allignment? But I am not self preservation, surely acting in a way that causes a wagon on myself in every day1 shows I am not into self preservation. You really have the wrong person to try this accusation on. It simply isnt true, I say so, my meta says so, my play so far says so. All sorts of things just show you are wrong. but talk to Wisa he knows.

Great choice of words, especially after my reply to one of your questions:

Tbh I totally forgot this, but if you knew that you english was not necessarily up to scratch why assume the worst about my post without asking anyone?

So you are willing to take down someone you think it's a townie just because you think he's weak. Interesting... specially because this is a newbie game.

I would do this in day 2 I think. It is dangerous to have noobs in lylo. (notice not newbs only noobs.)

as opposed to any actual logic

Hypocrite.

delaying tactics

No tactics about it, my sister had just had two epileptic fits at college so I had to pick her up and look after her; if you must know. I didnt realise one afternoon not proving how crap you are was tactical, but each to their own.

I have explained multiple times how Boberz' attacks are unfounded and bullyish, rather than actually proving why anyone is scummy. He's used idle threats, delaying tactics, and even a "why me" whine when he claimed that he is often railroaded on day 1. I've quoted him several times and shown his belligerence and lack of proof. I have also pointed out how this position is more self-centered and less team-centered, and we all know that is a scum position. I'm sorry if you misread my comments as "fluff", but I'm actually showing you a pattern.

Most of this is wrong. My attacks are not unfounded, they do show why people are scummy when they are (or just wrong when they are just wrong), my threats arent idle, i didnt use delaying tactics, no I deliberately get myself wagonned on day1 you fool that is why I am not scared like you, nobody has proof just evidence I have a fair bit of that, it is team centred but dont get yourself in wifom anyway!!! But more importantly the vast majority is not scummy.

Boberz is trying to insinuate himself in a position of power

THis is a protown position imo. Especiallywhen you are me

If my position is still unclear

It is clear but wrong. Get it into your skull you are wrong. You are actually wrong. Provide some evidence and I will tell you why you are wrong. but remember the constant in the equation: you are wrong.

im not a fool

I know which is why it spikes my interest whenever you say something foolish

Can someone please explain to Wisa, slowly and in small words, how I have already answered his questions. Over and over.

Someone can explain it to me while your at it. Or maybe nobody has followed Pasch this far. Or maybe Pasch, your wrong!

Honestly, I'm tired of arguing with you two. I'm certainly not going to convince you to vote yourselves, so I'll move on

At risk of giving andrew a heart attack, I consider this a cop-out.

The only strong difference is that Boberz needs to get someone else onto the wagon, because he can't rely on scum to hammer me, because he and Wisa will only make 4.

This sort of comment makes me think your crap town Pasch. I mean there are large points for you being scum, but I dont necessarily feel it anymore. But you probably are.

I'm saying that being a leader, rather than actually being right

Are these things mutually exclusive or not??? Big question you need to answer it.

He's (boberz) trying to keep his hands clean

Really?

I also note that in the very same paragraph you quote, where I view "him in terms of being a threat as opposed to being interested in figuring out his alignment", I go on to discuss his alignment, with my proof for it, in the very next sentence. Seriously, are you actually reading my posts or just cherrypicking for things to complain about?

But the threat should not be an issue at all, meanwhile hypocrite. You literally took one phrase from a large proper post of mine, and suggested I was asking for support, when I was encouraging activity. Ludicrous.

[boberz]

Also, going under the radar here is andrew.

unvote vote andrew

He hasnt posted much, and what he has posted has been devoid of any kind of critical thinking.

The following posts are examples of attacks that have not felt 'real'. They seem like he is just fabricating pretty poor attacks merely to get me (someone who has seen his meta, is an experienced player and an apparently easy target) wagoned.

u caught a scum in 3 posts- i notice you dont do this in last game

I may not have done specifically this in every game, but I always start of in a very strong accusatory high profile townleading way. I like to think I was on meta, check it for yourselves;this felt fabricated.

then you said stop talking about the cop. its funny how YOU started it

I can understand (sort of) people not knowing the phrase and assuming I had committed some kind of cardinal sin. But once my explanation had been given to continue to accuse me of first mentioning the detetective is very strange.

1st question so he knows whos pro and who to kill and who to mislynch (newbs)
2nd question so he knows voting patterns etc
3rd so he knows who to hammer

These are questions you will see in many newbie games all over the place. It is simple questions to help introduce people into the game. It contextualises everyone's play so people know what to expect from whom. I certainly dont need help in finding lynch targets, I am quite good at attacking in case he hadnt noticed.

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no saying that you got both scum on the 4th post is NOT testing the waters. that is not scumhunting, imagine how a newb would react- he also said he didnt want to vote me so i could cry OMGUS. what kind of a shit excuse is that- so i wont vote confrimed scum cos he has a vote on me?

i like how you completely ignored my post

This is something different. It is just completely misunderstanding everything.

I do do it in every newbie game I play, and it works.
He confuses himself over the OMGUS, I was suggesting andrew would accuse me of OMGUS not the other way around. Either way it was the first few posts, why does he still care now?

---

im not a fool

For someone who is so busy with exams, and when so much is going on in the game he picked a strange thing to comment on.

If we assume his points against me are crap, which they are (they are atleast repititions in most acases as well as being factually crap), he has been active lurking the whole time.

im serious about the cop out comment.
why the phrase'cop out' just say fucking WHY NOT VOTING

instead he say cop out which is often related more likely to the cop
and then he says ' o it means not voting'

i say whatever

There was no point in going on about this, he is miles behind avoindint the real discssions.

[boberz]

I did, except in one case (the last, in which case it was the whole post under question.

To the cross post >>> No read it yourself. Make your own judgements. If you cant catch up replace out, you cannot ban people from walls.

[boberz]

Britain. and I dont see much content in your walls andrew.

[boberz]

Ok FOS wingless. That series of posts was the worst I have seen in a while.

[boberz]

I kind of agree really Zach, I just think it is a good way to point at something and say it is bad without making a big deal. IN this case said rolefishing.

[boberz]

Wingless, what you are doing is ery anti-town I still dislike this. The cop if we have one will choose who to investigate himself. We will not get involved in any kind of scheme that may give off cop tells.

I do hope you do get nked

[boberz]

No wingless, this is not an opinion thing at all. You are creating an enviroment where the cop is in danger of being discovered. And not only that we may not even have a cop. Setting up any game so it is reliant on PRs does not work (if it does it is a bad setup).

Wingless get scumhunting now.

[boberz]

Setting up any game so it is reliant on PRs does not work (if it does it is a bad setup).

It can be fun! I'm running a bastard mod on another site right now with a closed set up. It's three groups of mafia and a serial killer. It relies on the Godfathers and Serial Killer being NK-immune to work, but nobody suspects a thing about the set up.

Keyword 'bastard' in that. I wouldnt like it personally but each to their own.

Either way winbgless desert this line of thought now.

[boberz]

You are meant to work out who the mafia is!!! Who do you think is mafia? Why? WHat evidence do you have?

If you can answer those three questions then why am I not voting for them?

[boberz]

In fact:

unvote vote wingless

It is a tad too much to let anyone get away with, so for obvious reasons.

[boberz]

Why do you think it is me?

If you answer my questions I'll answer yours. Deal?

[boberz]

You are meant to work out who the mafia is!!! Who do you think is mafia? Why? WHat evidence do you have?

If you can answer those three questions then why am I not voting for them?

You had better start reading properly wingless. It was only two posts above yours!!!

[boberz]

Are you still pretending andrew?

[boberz]

Andrew read the post above mine that you wrote, then use basic reading comprehension to work out what I could possibly be talking about.

[boberz]

do not know who the mafia is. I do not have any evidence and I am afraid of neither of us will have a real evidence on somebody at any time. If I could answer that 3 questions, I would vote on my first mafia target.

Change this attitude. There is loads of evidence about loads of people. What did you think of my case on andrew for example.

[boberz]

If you think it is a good idea, justify it and go for it.

[boberz]

I prefer two or three competing wagons, but I havent got a proper handle on this game really.

[boberz]

I havent got a handle because I have been a tad lazy and am a bit worried about andrew and have not spent much effort on some others (you amongst others). And it is different because people seem bemused by the fact they are expected to find scum.

[boberz]

andrew is playing atrociously. I am prepared to off him now.

[boberz]

Also, going under the radar here is andrew.

unvote vote andrew

He hasnt posted much, and what he has posted has been devoid of any kind of critical thinking.

The following posts are examples of attacks that have not felt 'real'. They seem like he is just fabricating pretty poor attacks merely to get me (someone who has seen his meta, is an experienced player and an apparently easy target) wagoned.

u caught a scum in 3 posts- i notice you dont do this in last game

I may not have done specifically this in every game, but I always start of in a very strong accusatory high profile townleading way. I like to think I was on meta, check it for yourselves;this felt fabricated.

then you said stop talking about the cop. its funny how YOU started it

I can understand (sort of) people not knowing the phrase and assuming I had committed some kind of cardinal sin. But once my explanation had been given to continue to accuse me of first mentioning the detetective is very strange.

1st question so he knows whos pro and who to kill and who to mislynch (newbs)
2nd question so he knows voting patterns etc
3rd so he knows who to hammer

These are questions you will see in many newbie games all over the place. It is simple questions to help introduce people into the game. It contextualises everyone's play so people know what to expect from whom. I certainly dont need help in finding lynch targets, I am quite good at attacking in case he hadnt noticed.

---

no saying that you got both scum on the 4th post is NOT testing the waters. that is not scumhunting, imagine how a newb would react- he also said he didnt want to vote me so i could cry OMGUS. what kind of a shit excuse is that- so i wont vote confrimed scum cos he has a vote on me?

i like how you completely ignored my post

This is something different. It is just completely misunderstanding everything.

I do do it in every newbie game I play, and it works.
He confuses himself over the OMGUS, I was suggesting andrew would accuse me of OMGUS not the other way around. Either way it was the first few posts, why does he still care now?

---

im not a fool

For someone who is so busy with exams, and when so much is going on in the game he picked a strange thing to comment on.

If we assume his points against me are crap, which they are (they are atleast repititions in most acases as well as being factually crap), he has been active lurking the whole time.

im serious about the cop out comment.
why the phrase'cop out' just say fucking WHY NOT VOTING

instead he say cop out which is often related more likely to the cop
and then he says ' o it means not voting'

i say whatever

There was no point in going on about this, he is miles behind avoindint the real discssions.

[boberz]

@mod

request vote count please.

[boberz]

Wow. I fail. He posted yesterday. Gaulamos is not being prodded. I guess I'll just put up a votecount then shutup now =P

Cheers robo, you are doing a good job dont get downhearted (if you are)

[boberz]

nice , im mafia because i voted for you? in that case if i unvote, im not mafia then? use your brians


also, do you know what rolefishing is?
its making an obsure statement that when some pr reads it he'll respond in a different way, so being newb or not doesnt matter.
finally modding a game= experience

Misrep, blatant misrep/misunderstand/rubbish post.

[boberz]

i clearly said that if wingless flips town, lynch me tommorrow

Never say this if your town.

[boberz]

Never say it as town.

[boberz]

Wingless, start playing properly now.

[boberz]

Indeed I am with you on that now Zach. I am bored of the wingless tuff.

unvote

[boberz]

Cheers yellow bounder.

Not 100% sure what is going on anymore, I too am going to read.

[boberz]

7. He has just won a game as scum partially by pretending to be a bit more newbie than he really is. (there were other factors before he claims I am misrepping).

[boberz]

Dont do it like that andrew it is impossible for him to respond properly now.

[boberz]

bold inside quotes.

[boberz]

That's is nice and selfish of you.

But seriously people will get annoyed if you make a habit of it.

[boberz]

Also, going under the radar here is andrew.

unvote vote andrew

He hasnt posted much, and what he has posted has been devoid of any kind of critical thinking.

The following posts are examples of attacks that have not felt 'real'. They seem like he is just fabricating pretty poor attacks merely to get me (someone who has seen his meta, is an experienced player and an apparently easy target) wagoned.

u caught a scum in 3 posts- i notice you dont do this in last game

I may not have done specifically this in every game, but I always start of in a very strong accusatory high profile townleading way. I like to think I was on meta, check it for yourselves;this felt fabricated.

then you said stop talking about the cop. its funny how YOU started it

I can understand (sort of) people not knowing the phrase and assuming I had committed some kind of cardinal sin. But once my explanation had been given to continue to accuse me of first mentioning the detetective is very strange.

1st question so he knows whos pro and who to kill and who to mislynch (newbs)
2nd question so he knows voting patterns etc
3rd so he knows who to hammer

These are questions you will see in many newbie games all over the place. It is simple questions to help introduce people into the game. It contextualises everyone's play so people know what to expect from whom. I certainly dont need help in finding lynch targets, I am quite good at attacking in case he hadnt noticed.

---

no saying that you got both scum on the 4th post is NOT testing the waters. that is not scumhunting, imagine how a newb would react- he also said he didnt want to vote me so i could cry OMGUS. what kind of a shit excuse is that- so i wont vote confrimed scum cos he has a vote on me?

i like how you completely ignored my post

This is something different. It is just completely misunderstanding everything.

I do do it in every newbie game I play, and it works.
He confuses himself over the OMGUS, I was suggesting andrew would accuse me of OMGUS not the other way around. Either way it was the first few posts, why does he still care now?

---

im not a fool

For someone who is so busy with exams, and when so much is going on in the game he picked a strange thing to comment on.

If we assume his points against me are crap, which they are (they are atleast repititions in most acases as well as being factually crap), he has been active lurking the whole time.

im serious about the cop out comment.
why the phrase'cop out' just say fucking WHY NOT VOTING

instead he say cop out which is often related more likely to the cop
and then he says ' o it means not voting'

i say whatever

There was no point in going on about this, he is miles behind avoindint the real discssions.

[boberz]

You didnt answer any o thematthe time, or the second time I posted them so I am just making sure town are aware of the outstanding points on you.

[boberz]

So because some of it occured in RVS you are allowed to dismiss it?

Or is RVS there so we can make judgements off of it?

Meanwhile claim- I am sure we can convince someone to hammer.

[boberz]

I dont like how pasch has got out of this actually but I think andrew is good today.

[boberz]

any breadcrumbs?

[boberz]

You can beadcrumb in such a way that it can never be seen unless you show it to people. I was not asking for a softclaim.

I still want answers andrew.

[boberz]

Not to mention the wifom if he is not. But I see that from Pasch's view (if he is town of course)

[boberz]

Let's see the flip and stuff, happy to talk in the morning, but I recommend that we let night happen first. And be wary to avoid wifom wisa.

[boberz]

I would seriously think about lynching my scum mate. But, it could make me a perfect town image

???

Probably a language barrier here, can you please say what you said in a slightly different way please?

[boberz]

WHy are you speculating about this?

[boberz]

I am interested in maths. I am now trying to add a formula because I'd like to take part in a tender or competition or what. And I try to find out how other people think about this situation, because at least one of them is scum.

Are you excited, boberz? You wrote your post so fast and you didn't correct your WHy to Why. I haven't seen it from you before. I think that was a town move about excite.

I am sure I have done it before, I rarely correct my posts a trait I should correct.

But send all your maths to the MD forum, please try and find some scum in this game please. However bad you are it is important to me you try and look for scum. I too like maths and would be keen to read this

if

you send it into MD.

[boberz]

Go and read your role pm very carefully pasch!

[boberz]

Btw andrew you claim very close to outright mentioning active games while that was still going on. Be careful in future that is a modkill offence.

If you were a VT I might just cry myself to sleep.

[boberz]

Zdenek's vote seems a bit off.

I am a bit depressed btw. (Damn lying townies the death of newbie games.)

[boberz]

vote zdenek

I vaguely remember he was scummy before as well.

I only have internet when I visit the appropriate pubs atm this means my content is severely limited. (No internet in my new house atm.)

[boberz]

unvote vote gaul

Forget that have a nice proper target now.

Gaul interests me, because early on he was quite intent on finding me scummy for my early play. But quite quickly he turns round defending me (not that I neede it but thanks anyway) because I and others suggest that it wasnt scummy. I just felt his whole attitude towards me early game as a bit flifloppy/wishy washy.

He epically jumped on my active lurking point with reference to andrew shamelessly hijacking it for himself with no original thought.
He later proceeded with some quite poorly reasoned attack on andrew for buddying zdenek.

He seemed obssessed with 'copoutgate' even ages after he accepted it was not scummy reffering to it on more than one occasion.

[boberz]

Thank you but yours were not.

Any more to say?

[boberz]

I am clocking in just seen wingless at L-1 I really dont think it is him guys.

Catching up now. Dissapointed in lack of activity. I am semi VLA and keeping up easily.

[boberz]

Gaul my very early day 1 play was indeed very haphazard, but surely it was evident my andrew suspicion was real. And it certainly became so throughout the day. I do not accept that my early Day 1 play is representative of how I play mafia.

At some point later in the day you unvoted him for no reason, just to vote for Wingless

Contradiction in one sentence. Your gonna have to defend yourself better than this Gaul, it ain't working.

You mentioned copout on many occasions after the event as well. Even flipantly using it as an example of your bad english (your english is not bad btw)

Gaul has just flipflopped on me again btw. I sensed a tone of suspicion on me here.

---

Everyone has to stop waiting for everyone else to post. Zdenek is guilty of this (among others probs)

---

Wisa: "Wingless it is" bad bad post. I think you are town WIsa which is why I have been trying to work with you a little bit. But this is a bad bad post.

[boberz]

Wingless better not be L-1 once I leave this pub. It is shocking town play.

[boberz]

I accept he may have misunderstood originally but there was no need to harp on about it over and over again. It is a strange person who harps on about an inadvertant miscommunication that hampered towns chances of winning.

His flipflopping on me is scummy because of the way I tried to lead town and how aggressive in early game. This tied into how he hung onto my coatails on the andrew active lurking and he then made up some absolute crap on andrew. Check gaul's andrew case for yourself it is twaddle.

I do not want wingless lynched it is not a softclaim if that is what you are thinking but I have a strong town read on him. He was not rolefishing if I remember correctly. ANd the iwngless wagon is one of those mislynch wagons that always appears against a newbie when town run out of ideas. Gaul better be the lynch today.

[boberz]

Is there merit in going for yellow bounder? If he is lurking we will get him tomorrow, I say we get gaul off now though.

[boberz]

I agree I want info from the player spot but I am not convinced we need to actually vote him (or consider doing so) however I would like to make sure everyone votes for gaul about now.

[boberz]

The mod basically responded to an in game post by boberz that entertained the notion of lynching him for lurking by pointing out that he's not lurking intentionally.

Quite the opposite zach I was suggesting it was not time to lynch lurkers so I had the read as very slightly the opposite but I do not put nearly as much stead in it as you. I refuse to accept that this ahs the impact zach is suggesting.

[boberz]

vote zdenek

On that latest post read: 'How do I playh as scum'

[boberz]

unvote

Get on a wagon and all the scummy people join him.

I am not answerng those questions as I already have done and the idea that unvoting people is bad is nonesense, particularly now we know one of them was town.

vote gaul

Let's off him now.

[boberz]

Sorry guys I got gaul. And by endgame I definately would have had zach but put a target on my back their.

Zach may kill me for saying this but always kill the IC in endgame, if they are lasting this long then they are scum. THey would be knd otherwise.

---

Zach now I have daily (more than) internet access do you think I am good enough to be an IC? I ahve played enough games but most of the other ICs seem to be really good players, is it an unofficial rule that you have to be good to be an IC?

[boberz]

I am fairly certain a very disproportionate number of ICs in my games in endgame have been scum. I may have to research before I start spreading it too much but for now I think I will use it.

[boberz]

I am fairly certain a very disproportionate number of ICs in my games in endgame have been scum. I may have to research before I start spreading it too much but for now I think I will use it.

So effectively you're going to push what amounts to a policy lynch based on the Too Townie fallacy?

Good luck with that

From what I have seen it may have a bit of traction. And it certainly is not a too townie thing. It may end up being a fallacy but I do not think it is a too townie one, it is a pshycology one. (btw zach I dont know how many games you have played but 50% of the time being scum when you are scum in less than a third of games sounds statistically significant to me).

As I said it will require some investigation to see if it actually does work. And as soon as the investigation is made public it will very quickly become invalid, so I may just keep it to myself