Newbie 1006 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[Wingless]

Now, let's see. I think we should take on of the inexperienced ones because experienced players are more likely to find a scum. It is very unlikely that 2 of the 3 experienced players are mafia, so we will have at least one left at Day2. Boberz and Rydonmower were fighting each other, so it is not very likely they are both scum i think.

VOTE: gaulamos

[Wingless]

Now, let's see. I think we should take on of the inexperienced ones because experienced players are more likely to find a scum. It is very unlikely that 2 of the 3 experienced players are mafia, so we will have at least one left at Day2. Boberz and Rydonmower were fighting each other, so it is not very likely they are both scum i think.

VOTE: gaulamos

Bad meta at its finest. Trying to guess what the mod was thinking, especially when roles are assigned randomly, leads to bad choices.

Vote: Wingless

I didn't try to guess what the mod was thinking. 3/9*2/8=1/12 is the chance that the 2 mafia scum is 2 of the 3 experienced players. I think this is fairly poor chance, plus considering boberz's and Rydonmower's fight, I would say it is very likely what I said is true. I

UNVOTE: gaulamos

and

VOTE: Paschendale

for attacking me without any reason.

[Wingless]

I am going to get a cool avatar.

[Wingless]

Wagon that Paschendale guy unless he shows something.

[Wingless]

How can i be SE or IC? Do i have to win heaps of games?

[Wingless]

Where's that guide? I would be pleased if I were told where those guides are.

[Wingless]

I will be online at least once a day if not more times. But as anything, it isn't sure. Wisakedjak: Paschendale attacked me without a reason i think. Gaulamous's last post had been made before i made my first post.

[Wingless]

OK, I'll post here some important things. My mother language is not English so i am probably going to do worse post analysis than you. I do not have much time at the moment, but i will have on the weekend. I think I'll read this forum better than now.
This is my first online mafia game, so i am fairly bad. But this has some positive sides: mafia will not want my head as soon as yours. OK, i am a bad player that can't do much post analysis. Then teach me! I am not going to imporve much during this game but i think experience will come at the end. I still think mafia is more excited about the game so mafias will be more likely fairly active than others, so my vote remains on Paschendale.

[Wingless]

What does L-1 mean?

[Wingless]

Paschendale, I am not angry. How could I be? This is just a game. I just think your behavior is something like scummy, and as i read, you don't really want to find scum. I still think you are more likely to be scum than anyone else.

[Wingless]

Could somebody explain to me why is boberz voted 3 times? You guys wrote a heap of posts and things, and my mother language is not english so i do not really enjoy reading them and i do not understand it as you do.

[Wingless]

And, we could explain some strategy about what our cops or doctors should do. We are likely to have at least one of them. Ok, it is clear that the maffia may kill me becouse of this maybe doctor or cop post, but it is a serious thing. Who should they investigate or protect in your opinion?

[Wingless]

I didn't really meant that. I have not played any form of mafia. But I am hosting a game on another site and I read interesting things there. May i describe them? I think it may be useful.

Someone (the cop) wrote this system:
Everyone every day writes 3 names and a number from 0 to 2 randomly.
The cop is to add the numbers(but not his own number) and calculate his target number(I do not know how English call this thing) like this:
If the number is 3*k+0 then his target number is 0.
If the number is 3*k+1 then his target number is 1.
If the number is 3*k+2 then his target number is 2.

If the target number is 0, he investigates the first name, if its 1, he investigates 2nd, if its 2, he investigates the 3rd.

This way, the mafia cannot rule the cop who to investigate(because the cop will not add his own number) and the mafia do not know who the cop is.

Then, on the next day, everybody writes his own 3 names with a role. Like this:
andrew - townie
Wisa - townie
Paschendale - scum.

The cop is not to lie about anything, because it makes disadvantage to the town. The result is always written in the 3 names' roles.

This way, he doesn't tell his investigations' results, but when he dies, and it is clear to everyone that he was the cop, they go back in the topic and calculate his target number and find out who did he investigate. And they will have a name with a role.

This system is pretty good because the cop can share every information he gets and it nobody will be able to guess who it is.

This system doesn't work if the mod doesn't tell one's role when he dies. Does he?

This is not that trivial strategy i think. I didn't understand your last post, andrew. What is FOS and HOS?

[Wingless]

I start the strategy now(I write here 3 names, one of them will be chosen by luck if I the cop, and I will investigate it):

boberz
Paschendale
Rydonmower

Number: 2.

[Wingless]

Oh, i forgot to mention that this system has to be done every day to give the cop the full comfort. I may be killed, but i take that risk to help someone that may exist.

[Wingless]

Wingless, what you are doing is ery anti-town I still dislike this. The cop if we have one will choose who to investigate himself. We will not get involved in any kind of scheme that may give off cop tells.

I do hope you do get nked

Ok. You can have an own opinion. But with this system the cop can detect 2 scums without being killed.

I think I will be killed after you.

[Wingless]

Ok, if you don't want it, you don't want it. But what did that mean: wingless gets scumhunting now?

[Wingless]

Ok. Anyway, are we supposed to do anything else than voting each other and finding out who's suspicious?

[Wingless]

Why do you think it is me?

[Wingless]

What's yours?

[Wingless]

Listen, guys. If I were an experienced player, I would know that a strategy like that will do 1 thing: it will make me suspicious. I wouldn't get any value for my sacrifice. So why would I do that? I am not experienced. As I wrote, i read that strategy in the game that is being mod by me. I thought it was a good idea. I thought it would help the town. If I were scum, why would I do that?

Your 3 question boberz: I do not know who the mafia is. I do not have any evidence and I am afraid of neither of us will have a real evidence on somebody at any time. If I could answer that 3 questions, I would vote on my first mafia target.

[Wingless]

*As I wrote, i read that strategy in the game that is being mod by me, and that shows that the strategy was created by inexperienced players, so I am hosting a game to them therefore I do not know how to scumhunt.

[Wingless]

What is WIfom? I understand that something that doesn't bring us somewhere is useless.

[Wingless]

If you think it is a good idea, justify it and go for it.

Fair enough . . . .
When it comes to Wingless, I think I've seen enough. Post by post:

1. He opens the game with the plan to vote off an inexperienced player with the justification that it is unlikely that 2 of the 3 experienced players are mafia. While that's true, it is a completely ludicrous argument for voting off an inexperienced player who is no more likely to be mafia than anyone else.

2. Switches his vote to Paschendale for voting for him for those reasons. OMGUS? But okay, Paschendale turned out to be suspicious after all.

3.

I'm going to get a cool avatar,

How can i be SE or IC? Do i have to win heaps of games?

Where's that guide? I would be pleased if I were told where those guides are.

making comments that are irrelevant to the game.

4.

Wagon that Paschendale guy unless he shows us something

It seems a little chummy, and on top of that, they've both been suspicious. He seems really happy about this post, and I wonder if it's because he is bussing his partner . . .

5.

This is my first online mafia game, so i am fairly bad.

Here he says that its his first mafia game, but it turns out later that he's modding a game on another site, so I think it means he is lying about his experience level.

6.

Could somebody explain to me why is boberz voted 3 times? You guys wrote a heap of posts and things, and my mother language is not english so i do not really enjoy reading them and i do not understand it as you do.

He doesn't care to read people's posts.

7. Role fishing.

8.

I think I will be killed after you.

This seems to imply some sort of knowledge about the order in which people are going to be killed.

9. He goes on for a while about how he must inexperienced using a WIFOM style argument.

If he is inexperienced, then there is a good chance that he is mafia simply because of the things that he is saying: making comments that are irrelevant, not caring to read people's posts and seeming to have some sort of knowledge about the order in which people are going to be killed.

If he is pretending to be inexperienced, then his actions indicate that he is trying to out the power roles, and get the town to pursue poor strategies.


Unvote

Vote Wingless

I am inexperienced. I have never played with experienced players before. I am hosting my game on a poker forum, so I had to organize the whole thing and as the organizer, I couldn't take part in it.

If i were experienced, I wouldn't have made these nooby/scummy posts that cause life expectancy reduction.

I wouldn't be that fool. I am just totally newbie and I didn't know what is going to kill me, what kind of noob post. I was not role fishing. I tried to make a system that gives the cop full comfort.

I can not read all your posts here because I do not have that much time. I am a high school student, and I have a lot to do. My youth could cause that this is my first play, because this isn't for 10 year old guys. And, as I said, I cannot speak English as well as you can.

I think the mafia is trying to lynch me and exploit my weakness. They are trying to vote me off, because If they do not die in the lynch, that's awesome to them. I think at least one of them has voted me. I do not think boberz or Zdenek are mafia becouse as I read, they are really trying to find scum, I think I am going to change my vote:

UNVOTE
VOTE: andrew94

[Wingless]

And I said I was going to die after boberz because my opinion was that. He had 3 votes on him.

[Wingless]

I could give you the game's link but it's hungarian, you won't understand a word of it. Do you still want it?

[Wingless]

Let's forget the whole newbie thing becouse if I continue it, that's suspicious, if I don't, that's suspicious. If you have a question about it, ask.
How could I explain to you that you are not making a wise move?

[Wingless]

Wingless, start playing properly now.

Ok, I am going to try it.

Let's forget the whole newbie thing becouse if I continue it, that's suspicious, if I don't, that's suspicious. If you have a question about it, ask.
How could I explain to you that you are not making a wise move?

I'm not forgetting it . . . .

So, now that you've stopped playing dumb, what are your thoughts?

I do not know what makes scum scum, but I think I'll train myself with that mafia wiki thing now. I might improve with that stuff.
I do not have any new ideas, only what I have written. I think scum could try to exploit my scum image. I'll find what I didn't like about Paschendale.

[Wingless]

Becouse I have forgotten it.

[Wingless]

Personally I didn't understand it. If he made it becouse he was suspocious to Paschendale, why didn't he vote him? May i have assured boberz? That is not likely.

[Wingless]

I would seriously think about lynching my scum mate. But, it could make me a perfect town image. 1 mafia against 7 townie(and it could be worse, because there may be a cop or a doctor) is in the favor of the town(if everyone played mathematically correctly, and there were no power roles, the town's chance would be 19/35).
But I think i would do this because L-1 is very likely to become a lynch.
Was that doctor post a doctor claim from you, andrew? I am inexperienced, but I read JEEP's tells and he says many people try to avoid lynching with doctor claim(I do not know why is that such a powerful defense to them). If I were doctor, I wouldn't tell anyone. I would just play.

[Wingless]

Why is WIFOM a bad thing?
Does it give a chance to my opponents to have a look in my brain?

[Wingless]

I would think about doing it. I would not be sure whether to lynch him or not.

[Wingless]

I am interested in maths. I am now trying to add a formula because I'd like to take part in a tender or competition or what. And I try to find out how other people think about this situation, because at least one of them is scum.

Are you excited, boberz? You wrote your post so fast and you didn't correct your WHy to Why. I haven't seen it from you before. I think that was a town move about excite.

[Wingless]

I am calculating odds in general. Mafia is brutal.

[Wingless]

If andrew and I were mafia, I would lynch him in this situation, because he couldn't be saved. The important thing happens when it is something like L-1.

[Wingless]

I would like to get information from yellowbounder, but I do not want to make him L-1. Becouse if I do that, a goon can hammer it, and we will have 1/3 odds.

[Wingless]

unvote vote gaul

Forget that have a nice proper target now.

Gaul interests me, because early on he was quite intent on finding me scummy for my early play. But quite quickly he turns round defending me (not that I neede it but thanks anyway) because I and others suggest that it wasnt scummy. I just felt his whole attitude towards me early game as a bit flifloppy/wishy washy.

He epically jumped on my active lurking point with reference to andrew shamelessly hijacking it for himself with no original thought.
He later proceeded with some quite poorly reasoned attack on andrew for buddying zdenek.

He seemed obssessed with 'copoutgate' even ages after he accepted it was not scummy reffering to it on more than one occasion.

Your words were good and useful.

VOTE: galuamos

[Wingless]

What could i say? I remember these thing hapened or something like these. I actually do not really know what to find. I haven't been mafia so I don't know what is a scum tell or something like that. I read wishywashy stuff may be scum tell, but this tell is hard, becouse many poeple just do wishywashy stuff not being mafia.

[Wingless]

I would like to get information from yellowbounder, but I do not want to make him L-1. Becouse if I do that, a goon can hammer it, and we will have 1/3 odds.

It really does just feel so scummy. I was scum in my first game and I ended up saying something very, very similar to make myself seem town. All of this is WIFOM, I know, but it still tells me that wingless isn't necessarily innocent.

I said it because it was true. If the town manages to lynch me, their odds will be very bad.
I think scum is somehow trying to make me lynched. That's OK, this is good to them. I can be easily lynched because I am suspicious.
Let's investigate my voters:

Zdenek:
He started the wagon, but he said I'm not suspicious. His goal was not to lynch me I think. He just changed his mind.

Wisa:
A man voting me many times. But I reread the a bit and saw him scumhunting a lot. He may be scum.

Zachrulez:
A man that has never been really scumhunting. He charged me with several things and joined the bandwagon. I reread all of zachrulez's posts and I think he's the one I think is the most likely to be scum now.

UNVOTE VOTE: Zachrulez

[Wingless]

Zachrulez:
A man that has never been really scumhunting. He charged me with several things and joined the bandwagon. I reread all of zachrulez's posts and I think he's the one I think is the most likely to be scum now.

UNVOTE VOTE: Zachrulez

Accusing me of not scumhunting is as rich coming from you as it is patently untrue.

Even if you were scumhunting, you charged me now. You listed a couple of things. You said whaaat? after a vote was removed from me. You want my blood very much.

[Wingless]

It would be good to investigate yellowbounder. I don't really have anything to say now, because you didn't post enough. I don't want to be prodded.

[Wingless]

I reread.

[Wingless]

I reread some thing and I like the idea of lynching gaulamos.

[Wingless]

UNVOTE VOTE: gaulamos

[Wingless]

Zach you lost.:D
1 scum is left.
If he's town, i'm scum.
If he's scum, i am town.
1 of us is the scum.
The town can get 2 lynches. Before the end of the game, becouse there are 5 people left.
So lynch Zach, and if he's not the scum, than i am the scum. The town wins!

Vote: Zachrulez

[Wingless]

Because Zach claimed cop.

[Wingless]

Look if a claimed cop votes town, what's the point of doing it? I really don't understand you. You may be cop, who knows 1-2 people is town, but I think if you were cop, you would definately have investigated me. You voted on me, so I was scum in your eyes. If you are cop, you know I am town. You didn't understand this. If the town kills me today, then you'll be the next.

[Wingless]

Zdenek why do you want to hammer me?
Zach what is your opinion about playing the cop?

[Wingless]

I didn't say that I or zach is cop. If he's cop, I'm scum, if he's not cop, then he's scum, and I'm town.

[Wingless]

What is the problem?:D

[Wingless]

If he's cop, it is very likely that he knows what I am.

[Wingless]

Why? Why do you think that?

[Wingless]

If he's cop, it is very likely that he knows what I am.

How exactly?

I changed my mind. Zach just couldn't have claimed cop with scum and attacked a suspicious person.

UNVOTE

Rereading the past few pages to find scum.

[Wingless]

Wisakedjak is the scum, i know it now. I'll collect evidences soon.

[Wingless]

Wisa ISO 2

UNVOTE: Gaulamos
VOTE: Paschendale

sorry, something misfired in my brain

That's true. Something misrifed in your brain thinking about your scum mate gaulamos.

Wisa ISO 35

I'm shamelessly sheeping, but I have to admit gaul is looking pretty terrible at this point. He's all over the place with his accusations and is looking pretty hypocritical when he accuses zdenek of just trying to get a lynch right now.

UNVOTE

VOTE: gaulamos

He had not attacked gaulamos before. Never. And when he saw gaul was going to be lynched that thay, he joins the wagon at the end of the day, 1 real day before the end of D2. He was not posting before the end of D2he even admitted that) because he would have been forced to post about gaul's scumminess. He just didn't want to loose his mate. Then he joins the wagon quickly to get town credibility.

These were the main things.

VOTE: Wisakedjak

[Wingless]

in response to Wingless' accusations about me, the first was merely a slip - i got paschendale and gaulamos names confused because i'd just learned them that day. My previous post was an argument against pasch.

Yeah, the arguments were against Pasch.

But Paschendale and I appeared after the last post of gaulamos. Gaulamos couldn't speak with me or with Pasch before your vote. Gaulamos didn't even post on that page where you voted him while reasoning against Pasch! They hadn't done anything similar. You couldn't have swapped them without thinking intensely about gaul, your mate. There is nothing that could cause this but your scumminess.

After I reread that, you look scummier.

[Wingless]

This was really funny.
Do you have anything to protect yourself with? You didn't answer to my last post.

[Wingless]

in response to Wingless' accusations about me, the first was merely a slip - i got paschendale and gaulamos names confused because i'd just learned them that day. My previous post was an argument against pasch.

Yeah, the arguments were against Pasch.

But Paschendale and I appeared after the last post of gaulamos. Gaulamos couldn't speak with me or with Pasch before your vote. Gaulamos didn't even post on that page where you voted him while reasoning against Pasch! They hadn't done anything similar. You couldn't have swapped them without thinking intensely about gaul, your mate. There is nothing that could cause this but your scumminess.

After I reread that, you look scummier.

I don't understand this argument at all.

Let's talk about this. You know, there was a guy called Freud. He said things like that. I think wisakedjak(scums' name are not to be written with capital letters) mistyped because he had one really important and special name in his brain's chambers: gaulamos, his scum mate. I wrote that he had nothing common with these 2 people supposing none of them is special to wisakedjak. They didn't speak with each other, and gaulamos hadn't post anything about me at that point. So he really couldn't swap them if both weren't special. So one had to be special to him, and that is gaul, his SCUM mate.

wisakedjak swapped Paschendale and gaulamos subconsciously.

You know its like when you love somebody and you are talking about another person and subconsiously call that person with your beloved person's name. Because that person is special to you. I hope it is clear now.

[Wingless]

I don't care if Freud was debunked or not. Everyone can say truth and right things. However, the phenomenon exists.

[Wingless]

It's important and true so yes, in every case.

[Wingless]

I have already mentioned your case with gaul's lynch. That's another charge against you. I think you are scum and you can't do anything to change my opinion.

[Wingless]

What you should do is very simple: type in Vote: wisakedjak in bold.

[Wingless]

Then vote Wisakedjak.

[Wingless]

No matter what I do say, you guys won't change you opinion about Wisa.

[Wingless]

We should get something from Kerrigan.

[Wingless]

If i have enough time, i think i'll read one of Zach's game a bit.

[Wingless]

I think he's scum.

[Wingless]

I mean I don't think. We have 3 days left and we must lynch somebody.

[Wingless]

This is a bad idea. The mafia will kill Zach, the cop and Zdenek will not know you are scum wisa. But nice try.

[Wingless]

Why do you think I am scummy?

[Wingless]

Yes, I made bizarre statements, but I didn't play the newbie card with will. I am newbie without pretending it.

[Wingless]

Are you saying I or SK is the scum? What about Wisa? And you?

[Wingless]

And what about Wisa?

[Wingless]

I can't bring any new evidence but it doesn't change the fact you are scum wisa.
The D2 gaul-lynch and the Freudian slip. Both are strong evidences.

Zdenek can' be scum.
Saintkerrigan can't be scum(he is the 3rd replace i think, and most people don't abandon scum).
Zach is not likely to be scum.
I am not scum.
Only you are left wisa.

[Wingless]

If I die, it will be clear to everybody that you are scum.

[Wingless]

this game has languished in neglect from all parties

I am voted off, aren'T i?