Newbie 1006 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[Zdenek]

Vote Zachrulez for lying right in his name.

[Zdenek]

VOTE ZACHRULEZ

Sorry about that.

[Zdenek]

Okay so andrew thinks that a 'random' vote coincidentally for the person he knows is random. So for clearly trying to misrepresent in the random vote stage, having his vote tactically on a player he obviously wants to mislynch me immediately.

Also the fact Zdenek is clearly trying to buddy Zach makes me very suspicious. There is no reason to apologise for a random vote so it is clearly a fear of someone striking in their first post.

vote zdenek

Cos he is clearly scum with andrew (I am not joking this is serious and I have so caught the scum already. Someone join me on this wagon it is looking hot.

A few questions:

How much mafia have you played?
How often are you planning to be online to play?
Who are you going to vote for?

My vote was random, and the apology was for a failure to bold it. I guess that wasn't clear enough.

Anyhow, to answer the questions:
I've played a few games on another board, but they were usually silly. Days in the game took one real life day, and there was little conversation, so whenever the town wasn't playing follow the cop, they lost.

It will depend on the day, but hopefully once or twice a day. So you know, I am in GMT, which might be a different time zone from the majority of players.

I am not sure who I will vote for at the end of the day yet. I will probably change my vote at some point, but so far, I don't see any reason to.

[Zdenek]

First of all, in what seems to be a time honoured tradition once someone places a serious vote,

UNVOTE

.

My vote was random

How did you choose who to vote for then?

Well, I saw the list of names, and saw Zachrules. I immediately thought of Zach Morris from Saved by the Bell, and then thought, Zach Morris doesn't rule at all.

About being opposed to the RVS and wanting to stomp it out. I guess the way you think would be best to do it is through the RQS, and then let that lead to a vote? Assuming that is the case, I think there is a (good?) chance that will lead to the mafia being able to get out to an even earlier lead because then instead of relying on random votes to try to get to a good early position, they will use the responses to questions. This could make their early accusations seem more substantial, since they'll be based on more evidence, and so more likely to attract attention and lead to a mislynch.

Now, let's see. I think we should take on of the inexperienced ones because experienced players are more likely to find a scum. It is very unlikely that 2 of the 3 experienced players are mafia, so we will have at least one left at Day2. Boberz and Rydonmower were fighting each other, so it is not very likely they are both scum i think.

VOTE: gaulamos

Or, by the same token, if we go after someone inexperienced, he will be less likely to be able to defend himself, and we'll lynch a townie on the first day.

Now, let's see. I think we should take on of the inexperienced ones because experienced players are more likely to find a scum. It is very unlikely that 2 of the 3 experienced players are mafia, so we will have at least one left at Day2. Boberz and Rydonmower were fighting each other, so it is not very likely they are both scum i think.

VOTE: gaulamos

Bad meta at its finest. Trying to guess what the mod was thinking, especially when roles are assigned randomly, leads to bad choices.

Vote: Wingless

Discussing the actual probabilities of events seems to have nothing to do with second guessing the mod to me. Between this and his Paschendale's early fence sitting, I am definitely suspicious of him.

I think that Boberz aggressive early play is in line with his desire to get rid of the RVS, so it doesn't come across as obviously suspicious to me.

Rydonmower's a bit suspicious. I think his phonetic writing is an attempt to come across as laid back. While he also seems like he is trying to play the game very carefully. It seems a little dissonant.

VOTE Rydonmower

[Zdenek]

I wasn't aware that waiting until everyone had posted at least once was fence sitting. Since we have twenty days for the first vote, I saw no reason to jump on anyone immediately. Then I saw something worth pointing out.

Boberz's claim that he had discovered the whole answer from three posts was absurd. I suspect he is just using his status and experience here to push his own view. A view that has no merit. Two people, voting for different people, and you have the answer? That's more OMGUS than anything else, and as someone who's supposed to be a role model for the new folks, you should know better. Also, could you actually say WHO you're quoting in your posts? I find myself ignoring almost every point you try to make because you're not being clear.

There is no question that Boberz was being absurd (he's even admitted that he goes out on a limb to make an early vote), but I don't think that is actually evidence against him, but that it's just a style designed to get the game out of RVS fast. It certainly seemed to have worked.

Can it be OMGUS, when you vote for someone who didn't vote for you?

Rydon's position not to jump on a bandwagon until he actually believes in his position is the correct one. Letting someone lead you by the nose makes you passive. Don't be passive.

Isn't not doing anything passive too?

This brings me to Wingless. I don't actually think he's scum. I think he's trying to outthink the meta of the game, and that's a stupid position. That's the kind of playing that is weak for town. That's why I voted him. You have to root out the weak townies in order to get at the scum. So, I stand by my position. Wingless is trying to do everything except analyze what people are saying. If you want someone who really isn't taking a stand, look at him. His contributions have been bad math and an OMGUS vote.

So you still think that trying to calculate probabilities of events is trying to "outthink the meta"? I'm not going to comment on whether it's weak (I think it would be if it was all you used for information), but working from an assumption that has a good chance of being true seems to be better than working off of one that has a low probability of being true.

I'm not quite sure about this root out the weak townies to get at the scum business. It seems like if you think if you've rooted out a weak townie, you would just let him go, and move on to someone else, rather than focussing on him. That would be more productive wouldn't it?

Him not analyzing, I agree with 100%. That's a point against him.

[Zdenek]

andrew94, regarding the post you made about boberz role fishing with the "cop out" comment and trying to figure out who to vote for, who to hammer and what people's voting patterns will be with his three questions, do you actually believe what you said, and if so why, or are you just playing stupid or a third option?

[Zdenek]

Boberz, and everyone else, in your opinion when is the right time to take someone to L-1?

[Zdenek]

'Ello again, chaps.

Rydonmower's a bit suspicious. I think his phonetic writing is an attempt to come across as laid back. While he also seems like he is trying to play the game very carefully. It seems a little dissonant.

VOTE Rydonmower

Haha. I can't say I ever thought my style of speech would come across as suspicious. Nope, with me, what you see is what you get. But thanks for pointing that out anyways.

I'm still pretty happy with my vote on boberz, but I don't think I'll be too disappointed if he's not lynched this evening.

Ha ha. It's not just the style of your speech. In fact that is a small part of it. I guess it is mostly a gut reaction to your posts, which make me feel like you are playing with artificial care, and then trying to hide it with your style.

[Zdenek]

Keep in mind, you're defending yourself at L-2, and you're doing a terrible job of it.

I was mistaken here. Zdenek changed his vote. Still, other than insults and whining, Boberz has offered no defense and no proof to his claims. I'd hate to imagine the string of wailing and profanity we'll see when you're closer to being lynched...

I've never voted for him. Boberz was at L-3 when the votes were last counted, your vote brought him to L-2, which where he sits.

[Zdenek]

...

Andrew and Zdenek have been also been critical of Boberz' actions. And, in fact, we both sit in the same situation. I have 3 votes against me, with Boberz threatening to be a fourth. Boberz has 3 votes against him, with Zdenek suspicious of him but not yet voted for him. The only strong difference is that Boberz needs to get someone else onto the wagon, because he can't rely on scum to hammer me, because he and Wisa will only make 4.

Zdenek, could you please elaborate on your reasons to suspect Boberz, but maintain your vote elsewhere?

Well, I don't recall saying that I am suspicious of him. I think he was being obnoxious, but he seems to have calmed down a little. This agrees with his motivation for this style of play, to get the game out of RVS/RQS, so I see no reason to change my vote to him.

[Zdenek]

Some quotes of Paschendale:

Of Boberz: Trying really hard to get someone hammered ASAP. You're very zealous about scum hunting. On day one, this is the right stance.

Well, later he did ask that we not take anyone to L-1, so this doesn't seem to be correct, but that's not the point I want to make. Initially, you were in favour of Boberz's actions, but rapidly changed your tune. So his methods are correct as long as he doesn't vote for you?

Bad meta at its finest. Trying to guess what the mod was thinking, especially when roles are assigned randomly, leads to bad choices.

That's more OMGUS than anything else, and as someone who's supposed to be a role model for the new folks, you should know better.

Misunderstanding both meta and OMGUS? Intentionally?

You have to root out the weak townies in order to get at the scum.

Anti-town.

You're a bigger threat than Wingless.

Wingless is a threat to you? Why would both Boberz and Wingless be a threat to you?

He'll sacrifice townies who disagree with him in order to make himself feel stronger.

I don't see any evidence of this.

Scum know not to engage so hard. Townies who disagree are the ones who'll fight back, as I am right now. Boberz is trying to kill the competition, not the scum. His position is geared towards ensuring that he lives longer and isn't lynched himself.

So you must be town because you are arguing against Boberz? That seems like a pretty terrible argument. Boberz has gone after you from the get go, and I don't think you were positioned as competition then (and you probably aren't now either).

Your second point is also wrong, since his methods cause a bandwagon on him to form.

After reading through your posts, I get the feeling that we are playing completely different games because I am just not seeing things the same way.

[Zdenek]

For the time being, it is clear that nothing is going to come of my Rydonmower suspicions, and Andrew94 really pisses me off with is garbage analysis. I think that his statements in various posts are ludicrous, especially where he discusses the meaning of "cop out.", so

unvote Rydonmower

vote Andrew94

While I am definitely suspicious of Paschendale, I think there is a good chance that he is just dumb, so I am not going to take him to L1 yet. Hopefully pressure on Andy will get him to start playing.

[Zdenek]

Could somebody explain to me why is boberz voted 3 times? You guys wrote a heap of posts and things, and my mother language is not english so i do not really enjoy reading them and i do not understand it as you do.

or you don't read the posts because you don't actually care who the mafia is . . . .

[Zdenek]

Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice ---> cough wingless

You've been around the site long enough to know the other version of that statement: never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. Now, I am not about to rule out the possibility that wingless is mafia, but I am sure that you know better.

[Zdenek]

Rydonmower is in line for a prodding . . . .

[Zdenek]

Here is my take on things at the moment:

Andrew94 - My impression is that at the start of the game he wasn't playing seriously, going on about the phrase "cop out" and presenting what I think is an incorrect interpretation of boberz' questions. Then he builds up some WIFOM with the posts about how he hates walls of text, and how "walls of text = mafia trying to hide" and then goes and posts his own walls, but he may have just felt like being obnoxious. I'm not going to change my vote yet, but I am also suspicious of other people.

Paschendale - My previous assessment of him stands because he hasn't said anything that makes me want to change my mind.

Wingless - Almost every time he posts, he says something questionable, and the only reason I can think of to play like this, if you are town, is to get yourself killed for fun. So if he is just pretending to be slow he probably is mafia, and if he's actually inexperienced, there's a good chance he's mafia.

Also, I'd like to hear from Gaulamos and Rydonmower because neither has posted in quite some time.

As town, we should probably start to focus our attention and come to a decision about who to hang because it might take a while to get enough people on board. So, lets start with the person who's been most in question lately, and who's around to defend himself:

Should we vote to hang wingless?

If this is premature, I'll drop it.

[Zdenek]

EBWOP: If this is premature or a bad idea, I'll drop it.

[Zdenek]

If you think it is a good idea, justify it and go for it.

Fair enough . . . .
When it comes to Wingless, I think I've seen enough. Post by post:

1. He opens the game with the plan to vote off an inexperienced player with the justification that it is unlikely that 2 of the 3 experienced players are mafia. While that's true, it is a completely ludicrous argument for voting off an inexperienced player who is no more likely to be mafia than anyone else.

2. Switches his vote to Paschendale for voting for him for those reasons. OMGUS? But okay, Paschendale turned out to be suspicious after all.

3.

I'm going to get a cool avatar,

How can i be SE or IC? Do i have to win heaps of games?

Where's that guide? I would be pleased if I were told where those guides are.

making comments that are irrelevant to the game.

4.

Wagon that Paschendale guy unless he shows us something

It seems a little chummy, and on top of that, they've both been suspicious. He seems really happy about this post, and I wonder if it's because he is bussing his partner . . .

5.

This is my first online mafia game, so i am fairly bad.

Here he says that its his first mafia game, but it turns out later that he's modding a game on another site, so I think it means he is lying about his experience level.

6.

Could somebody explain to me why is boberz voted 3 times? You guys wrote a heap of posts and things, and my mother language is not english so i do not really enjoy reading them and i do not understand it as you do.

He doesn't care to read people's posts.

7. Role fishing.

8.

I think I will be killed after you.

This seems to imply some sort of knowledge about the order in which people are going to be killed.

9. He goes on for a while about how he must inexperienced using a WIFOM style argument.

If he is inexperienced, then there is a good chance that he is mafia simply because of the things that he is saying: making comments that are irrelevant, not caring to read people's posts and seeming to have some sort of knowledge about the order in which people are going to be killed.

If he is pretending to be inexperienced, then his actions indicate that he is trying to out the power roles, and get the town to pursue poor strategies.

Unvote

Vote Wingless

[Zdenek]

As town, we should probably start to focus our attention and come to a decision about who to hang because it might take a while to get enough people on board. So, lets start with the person who's been most in question lately, and who's around to defend himself:

Should we vote to hang wingless?

If this is premature, I'll drop it.

Mafia is as much about the positions you take as it is the information you get from lynching. (Which means taking your own position, not assessing what your position SHOULD be.)

Well I thought my position was clear, but what I meant was, is it a good idea ever or specifically at this time, for the town to focus on a single player and decide whether or not to hang that player before moving on to the next, or is this sort conversation detrimental for the town.

[Zdenek]

I prefer two or three competing wagons, but I havent got a proper handle on this game really.

What's different or what would you need to get a handle on it?

[Zdenek]

Dear Mod: could you prod Gaulamos and Rydonmower

Unless I missed something, both of them have been absent for more than three days without posts.

[Zdenek]

Right now my suspicion is on Rydon and andrew, but I haven't formulated a case yet.

Why are you no longer suspicious of Paschendale?

[Zdenek]

Right now my suspicion is on Rydon and andrew, but I haven't formulated a case yet.

Why are you no longer suspicious of Paschendale?

Who says I'm not? There's more than one scum out there, and I'm looking for the other.

What is your case on Rydon?

[Zdenek]

Gaulamos: why do you think that Wingless is a townie playing badly, and not a member of the mafia playing badly?

Wisakedjak: For what it's worth, I did see Rydonmower lurking yesterday, and I was surprised not to see him post. If Paschendale wasn't in the game, who would you vote for?

Andrew94: Why haven't you voted for Wingless?

Paschendale: Why are you defending Andrew? Do you still think that Boberz is scum?

[Zdenek]

what do u think about wingless zdenek

What are you trying to do? I am sure that my thoughts on Wingless are clear.

[Zdenek]

...
that said i would rather lose to a more experienced person than someone pretending newbness

that also being said, i am willing to be lynched tommorrow or today, if that is what it takes to lynch wingless

Nice embedded an argument about why we shouldn't vote for you: because even if we lose to you you, we shouldn't feel to bad because you're experienced.

How is your lynching going to lead to the lynching of Wingless? and I'd still like you to explain your reading comprehension troubles.

[Zdenek]

Let's forget the whole newbie thing becouse if I continue it, that's suspicious, if I don't, that's suspicious. If you have a question about it, ask.
How could I explain to you that you are not making a wise move?

I'm not forgetting it . . . .

So, now that you've stopped playing dumb, what are your thoughts?

[Zdenek]

Boberz, are you still happy that you've unvoted?

[Zdenek]

gaulamos, you are missing the point. The question isn't about his experience, it's about his alignment.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Andrew94

L-1.

Nobody hammer until he has a chance to post please.

[Zdenek]

btw, reasoning zdenek, you were awefully sus of wingless and now u suddenly changed treck to vote me?

Why I've voted for Andrew: taken from my previous posts about him:

1. Repeatedly bringing up Boberz' "cop out" comment.

2. His bizarre explanation for Boberz' three questions.

3. His generally ridiculous analysis of the events of the game.

4. Not playing seriously.

5. Creating WIFOM with the posts about how he hates walls of text, and how "walls of text = mafia trying to hide" and then he posts his own walls of text.

6. making the argument that we shouldn't vote for him because even if we lose to him, we shouldn't feel too bad because he's experienced.

[Zdenek]

btw, reasoning zdenek, you were awefully sus of wingless and now u suddenly changed treck to vote me?

Why I've voted for Andrew: taken from my previous posts about him:

1. Repeatedly bringing up Boberz' "cop out" comment.

so?

2. His bizarre explanation for Boberz' three questions.

it was a joke

3. His generally ridiculous analysis of the events of the game.

i have different playing style, if you think im scum or otherwise incompetent because of this, it is effectively human discrimation

4. Not playing seriously.

i just finished exams

5. Creating WIFOM with the posts about how he hates walls of text, and how "walls of text = mafia trying to hide" and then he posts his own walls of text.

i believe i only posted 1 wall of text, and yes i dont like reading through huge blocks of text

6. making the argument that we shouldn't vote for him because even if we lose to him, we shouldn't feel too bad because he's experienced.

i did not say that, i was saying that if wingless wins because he was pretending to be noob, i would be pissed. and hencefore i would rather lynch him. i remember you actually want to lynch him, now you unvote and vote me to put me at L1 nice

I can accept one and two.

It is not human discrimination to think someone is scum because of how they are playing, that is a ridiculous appeal to emotion.

If you have something to contribute you should do so soon.

I don't care about the number of walls you posted, the point is that you did it right after you said it was something mafia would do.

I've been pretty clear about my suspicions of you, Wingless and Paschendale. There's a bit more than a week left, and it's time to start figuring out who to hang. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction. Having you at L-2 certainly didn't help.

[Zdenek]

Vote Yellowbounder

I was suspicious of Rydonmower at the start, and I find it odd that Yellowbounder didn't comment on Paschendale when he entered the game, and barely on wingless. It could have been that he saw those two as easy mislynches and wanted to distance himself from them.

[Zdenek]

Well, I'm still waiting to hear from Yellowbounder, and I guess it is unlikely that were going to get any more support for his lynch for the time being.

I agree with the statements that Boberz is making about Gaulamos, but, unless I am missing something, it seems that the best argument he has against him is that he's been wishy-washy. I think this sort of behaviour is more excusable than what Wingless was up to day one.

I still think Wingless is suspicious. For all the reasons from day one, and I'd also like to draw attention to this post in response to Boberz' case on Gaulamos.

Your words were good and useful.

I see this as blatant buddying with the most outspoken person in the game, so he is avoiding doing any work himself, and if the case is wrong, he can just plead ignorance.

Unvote Yellowbounder
Vote Wingless

[Zdenek]

I'd like to point out that Wingless is at L-1.

[Zdenek]

Okay, I agree with Boberz that wingless is an easy mislynch.

Unvote Wingless

Wingless, this unvote does not mean that I have ceased to be suspicious of you, it just means that I am looking for better ideas. If I don't find one, my vote will be back on to you.

[Zdenek]

315 tries to have it both ways. Both backing down from Wingless suspicion while keeping other options open, but stating suspicion of him at the same time.

I'm backing down from a wingless lynching while I reread, not wingless suspicion.

[Zdenek]

I would like to get information from yellowbounder, but I do not want to make him L-1. Becouse if I do that, a goon can hammer it, and we will have 1/3 odds.

It really does just feel so scummy. I was scum in my first game and I ended up saying something very, very similar to make myself seem town. All of this is WIFOM, I know, but it still tells me that wingless isn't necessarily innocent.

I said it because it was true. If the town manages to lynch me, their odds will be very bad.
I think scum is somehow trying to make me lynched. That's OK, this is good to them. I can be easily lynched because I am suspicious.
Let's investigate my voters:

Zdenek:
He started the wagon, but he said I'm not suspicious. His goal was not to lynch me I think. He just changed his mind.

Wisa:
A man voting me many times. But I reread the a bit and saw him scumhunting a lot. He may be scum.

Zachrulez:
A man that has never been really scumhunting. He charged me with several things and joined the bandwagon. I reread all of zachrulez's posts and I think he's the one I think is the most likely to be scum now.

UNVOTE VOTE: Zachrulez

I never said that I didn't find you suspicious. In fact I said exactly the opposite. This vote is OMGUS, and you basically say as much yourself. I was trying to consider other options because of the possibility that you are not mafia, and are really just an easy lynch for a lazy town as Boberz suggested. I also despise every post where you talk about your odds calculations.

Anyway, I don't like Boberz late unvote from Wingless day one, and combined with his defence of him now, if it wasn't for the fact that I feel he is aggressively scum hunting, I would suspect that he is scum trying to distance himself from townie lynches. I also don't like that the said he was ready to off Andrew, but didn't back it up with a vote.

[Zdenek]

I'd like to augment Boberz argument against Gaulamos. A lot of Gaulamos' statements are trivially true. For example:

i find the randomizing factor of "he is the only person i know" to be very weird.
...
Saying someone is mafia is not true just because you say it.
....
Lynching town is obvious anti-town

If you think I am cherrypicking, go through his ISO, and look. There are many of these perfectly true statements that carry with them no thought. I get the feeling that he is desperate to avoid saying something wrong, so he is confining himself to saying things that are absolutely true.

He is also parroting people, which will help him avoid being called out for saying anything controversial.

Playing the game this safely is indicative of scum, and for all the crazy stuff wingless is saying, I am not sure if scum would be inclined to do such scummy things so regularly.

So

Vote Gaulamos

That's L-1.

[Zdenek]

Oops I forgot wingless' unvote in my post.

[Zdenek]

The arguments against Yellowbounder aren't great, and I'd like to hear from him. That slot has given us very little to go on this entire game, and could easily be scum or TP. I don't think there is much merit in going for him now, because Gaul seems like a reasonable target.

[Zdenek]

Zach, what is it about my play that makes you think that I am not interested in finding out people's alignments, and what do I need to do differently to try to find them out?

I am currently sort of V/LA until Saturday, but I should still be able to post every other day at least.

[Zdenek]

V/LA until Saturday. I still like my vote.

[Zdenek]

Vote Zachrulez

He promised to present an argument against me, but never did, and then switched over to Gaul because Gaul voted for me.

I think he was never serious about finding me suspicious in the first place, and took the opportunity to bus Gaul at the last minute.

[Zdenek]

EBWOP: "replace switched over to Gaul" to "said he was willing to hammer."

[Zdenek]

Zach, any bread crumbs?

[Zdenek]

I'd like to hear Razgriz' thoughts before the end of the day . . . .

[Zdenek]

Unvote

On the off chance that that Razgriz wants to hammer Zach.

Wingless, after that exchange, I am very tempted to hammer you now, but just in case you flip town, I want to hear what Razgriz has to say before the end of the day.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek why do you want to hammer me?

Because of the post where you went on about either you or Zach being the cop. That statement isn't true, there are other players who could be scum, and I think you slipped up and essentially claimed scum.

[Zdenek]

I didn't say that I or zach is cop. If he's cop, I'm scum, if he's not cop, then he's scum, and I'm town.

But then you said

1 of us is the scum.

[Zdenek]

What is the problem?:D

There is nothing stopping someone else from being scum because Zach could be wrong about you.

[Zdenek]

Mod:

I know it's four hours away, but could you also prod razgriz.

[Zdenek]

Has anyone else read the games that Zach posted? I think he was much more helpful in those games than in this one.

[Zdenek]

posting to avoid prodding.

I think Wingless argument against Wisa is stupid.

[Zdenek]

Mod: SK is due for a prodding

[Zdenek]

If you guys need to lynch me for clarity on the last day's lynch, then do it. At that point it's between Wingless and SK, the latter of whom enjoys the advantage of having no record with the town where Wingless has a spotty record.

Why not Zach?

[Zdenek]

Because I don't really think he's mafia. But it is a possibility.

Have you looked at the other games that he posted?

[Zdenek]

We should get something from Kerrigan.

here is my own prod-dodge post

Could you take a quick look at the other Zachrulez games that he posted to provide meta, and tell me what you think?

Same question for everyone.

[Zdenek]

If this is what you're driving at, it would be a lot easier for you to lay out why you think I'm less helpful in this particular game, rather than expecting others to read multiple mafia games.

This would also allow me to address concerns you have about my play, as opposed to a hard claim without any reasoning behind it which I can't defend myself against. (Other than dispute it with equal non-reasoning.)

After a careful reading, I've decided that I can't make a reasonable case that there are any significant differences in Zach's play in this game vs. his play in the others that can't be easily accounted for by the activity level and nature of this game compared to the others.

Mod: could you prod SK

Sorry for being a bother.

[Zdenek]

I disagree with that move. Wingless is the scummiest person in the game, and we should be lynching him today.

Vote Wingless

The worst situation for town is that Wingless and SK are town, and we don't lynch Wingless today. Then we will almost certainly lynch him tomorrow, since it is likely that scum will leave him alive, and lose. It could still happen that SK or her replacement, if there is one, will still contribute before the end of the game.

[Zdenek]

Why do you think I am scummy?

Rolefishing, not scum hunting and playing the newbie card. You've also made some pretty bizarre statements.

[Zdenek]

Yes, I made bizarre statements, but I didn't play the newbie card with will. I am newbie without pretending it.

You carried on about non-game related statistical matters and your first vote was on Gaul which could have been an early attempt at distancing.

There are more reasons to lynch you than anyone else at the moment. Also, from a practical point of view, if we lynch you, we can go into LYLO tomorrow without you being a distraction. We'll have enough of that to deal with from SK (or whoever is in that slot) if it survives the night.

[Zdenek]

Are you saying I or SK is the scum? What about Wisa? And you?

I never said that. What I meant was that having an inactive lurker in lylo will be bad enough without you being there too.

Also, start paying attention: there is no scenario in which I can be scum.
Either Zach is telling the truth, in which case, he's investigated me, and I'm in the clear, and either you, Wisa or SK is scum, alternatively, Zach could be lying in which case, he's almost surely scum.

Frankly, this is just another reason to think that you are scum: feigning too much ignorance of players roles in the game when there are some that are obvious.

[Zdenek]

And what about Wisa?

Barring something very unexpected happening, I will not change my vote today. If I am still alive tomorrow, I'll have a lot of thinking to do.

[Zdenek]

Are we down for lynching Wingless? I've already made it clear that I don't mind lynching Wingless.

I am.