Newbie 988-Apocalypse(Over)-Scum win

[tanstalas]

Hello all,

This is my first game on mafiascum. I have played a couple other games over at another site and was told about this site, so here I am - I have only played 2 full games before and was a replacement for another game. So I really am still quite new to the game.

To quote a friend from another game, votes are not like herpes, so spread them around

Vote: Dekes

He's German, they make good beer and I think scum like beer 0.o

[tanstalas]

Oh, sorry I forgot to mention in previous post, I am Joe and I am from Ontario, Canada. And Joe is not short for Josephine, it it short for Joseph, so hence, I am a dude

[tanstalas]

I would expect those votes not to count, besides. You'll probably have to redo once D1

Oh, I realize that. It's more of a tactic to get people talking.

[tanstalas]

Vote: Montgomery

The fact that we had one person claim to be female was surprising, this is the second one??

[tanstalas]

vote: montgomery

cause your avatar reminds me of charlie the unicorn.

Unicorns can be AWESOME...

Ever play the Robot unicorn game? It is so addicting, but at the same time, such a stupid game... but so fun..

Link is http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicor ... -game.html If you care to play, don't say I didn't warn you that it was addicting though

[tanstalas]

@montgomery: Actually, it's just

ongoing

games. Past games can and have many a time been used as a scumhunting means.

Vote: tanstalas

, only semi-random. How do you suppose RVS is going to invoke reactions from people at this point in the game?

@Dekes: Why did you use a randomizer to random vote?

Like I said - I'm still a mafia newbie, all the games I've seen throw joke votes around at the start, if anything it makes people more likely to throw a vote out themselves so we know they are actually here and not lurking. Also sometimes late game when we start to find out who scum is the joke votes at the start may give a clue on who else is scum.

Anything to get people posting is not a bad thing, in my opinion. And limited mafia experience.

[tanstalas]

Hey! Kyle99 Didn't vote for me, he voted for some guy named TanstalEs...

All kidding aside, I am also curious as to why yabba voted for me and said "semi-random" - and also why he is looking for a deadline already?

I answered your question, I think it only fair you answer mine

[tanstalas]

I think you're overvaluing RVS though. I've yet to see a game where random votes are referred back to. If anything, I claim I started the game when I questioned the stance. That's how I like to do it, pick an argument of trivial sorts, catch a reaction, and see what I get.

I voted you semi-randomly because I'm just trying to check up on a stance that I really find questionable. I don't think RVS is a good way to start scumhunting. But I see where you're coming from now. (answers 48)

@ yabba - I also asked why you were looking for a deadline after only 2 days IRL and only on day 1 of the game? Usually when I see that I get wary of the person as it makes them seem to want to get to night asap. Which could mean a few things. Either you are scum and want to kill someone, you have some super-duper awesome townie power or you just want to know if there is a deadline for the sake of knowing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt for now and assume you didn't see that part of the question in my last reply.

Unvote

FoS: yabba

Just FoS'ing to get your attention and to get your answer.

[tanstalas]

Quick question, can someone tell me what WIFOM-y and OMGUS mean?

Thanks, not used to these acronyms

[tanstalas]

I too would like to hear more from kyle99 and Montgomery, basically what I have gotten from all their posts thus far is:

kyle99
*I'm your SE
*Random voting for people is fun!
*Going to shortform your name to Tan

montgomery
*I'm a girl
*vote for the other girl because of someone named Blair Waldorf
*I know the mod from another site
*Voting again for makeorbreak because of Blair
*OMGUS!

[tanstalas]

Also, sorry for the triple post but could someone please clarify what AtE means?

Stolen from yabba's post on page 1 -

Appeal to Emotion (AtE)- For example, guilt-tripping players like "You'll be sorry to see me flip town when you get me lynched!" This usually implies a lack of inner resources to actually give an intelligent response as to why they shouldn't be lynched. Avoid.

I'd also like to point out that trying to argue while emotionally stressed, upset, or even ridiculously excited is sub-optimal. Clear, level-headed thoughts are ultimately what win out, especially since we play 3-week deadlines 'round these parts, so we all have time to think about it. Even if you are lynched, your statements don't die with you; we can always view them later. Keep your cool as much as possible.

[tanstalas]

There's no such thing as girls on the internet. Everyone knows that.

Hey! Now you're copying me! That's what I said, we have 2 girls here? That's the entire population of girls on the internet! (Ok I didn't say that exactly but that was what I was referring to back on post #30

Anyhow, on topic:

I was wondering if you more experienced players on MS can give me some help, and before you answer I would like to wait to hear if you can answer from the

mod

. Unless you know for a fact that answering it will not break any rules of the game.

Basically what I am wondering is how newbie games on here are typically set-up, we have 3 "experienced" players, 2 IC and 1 SE, correct? Just wondering how they are usually distributed through the teams, do both the mafia and town usually have at least one of the experienced people? Reason I am asking is I suspect one of the experienced people, though if you guys say that usually the mafia do have one of the IC's or SE's that will tip the scales a little more and I will feel inclined to vote on my hunch, and give my reasonings and then you guys can evaluate my thoughts and offer any ideas on it or not. If it's totally random then there goes one of my theories and I will still probably vote for who I think based on just observations of this game.

As for the makeorbreak thing, this is starting to get weird, I'm not liking that s/he has bandwagoned/(attempted to hammer?) twice and also the age thing on here, plus the "she's a dude" post that was pointed out.

On the other site where I play the motto usually is "lynch all liars" - Now I'm not saying that s/he should be lynched as it may just be that s/he is new or whatever, however I would like her to read some of the very helpful posts on this site on theory and game mechanics and just take the advice offered this game to not post if you are upset or whatever. If you are Mafia, by all means continue to act crazy and such as you are just painting a big bullseye on you, if you are town I'd be wary because you are just painting a big bullseye on you.

The most important rule of Mafia (IMO)

This is just a game, and above all have fun.

[tanstalas]

I'm considering dropping the hammer on kyle

I'm tempted to vote for the following reasons:

1) Lurking and then saying he forgot about the game
2) viewtopic.php?p=2401478#p2401478 Where he says he has contributed game content, which he has in 1 post thus far this game viewtopic.php?p=2400339#p2400339 in his last 3 posts this game though he has just thrown suspicion around
3)Going back to post #122 - makes a short post getting very defensive and then also wondering why Adrien's vote was still on him when Adrien stated VERY clearly by saying "

Preview Edit: *cough*Hypocrite*cough* Not defending her or anything, as she is wrong too, but you're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

"

As kyle is an "experienced" player I would not think he would make as many posts that seem as scummy as the ones he has.

I thought that an experienced player would be with mafia, apparently this is not the case - however I find that the above 3 reasons explain why I am thinking of voting the way I am.

If any of the more experienced players see a flaw in my logic - or if I may have missed something please advise, I'd hate to drop the hammer on a townie on day 1.

@kyle

- please respond

[tanstalas]

Vote: kyle99

voting now as I see beanman has retracted his vote, I want to keep the pressure on kyle. Though I do agree with beanman about makeorbreak, I am hoping s/he will take my advise and go read some past threads and look at theory of games etc.

Please though do not hammer kyle before he gets a chance to defend/roleclaim. If someone drops the hammer without letting him speak and he is the cop or doctor I will be voting for whoever hammered him no questions asked tomorrow if I am still here.

[tanstalas]

Y'know, I just want him to claim his role. I think he's actually at L-2 (so tan, you thought you were gonna hammer when it was L-3 ), but I don't want the hammer to happen until he claims anyway.

Yeah.. apparently I'm fail at math (and for a Software Engineer, that's pretty sad) - even though posts say takes 5 to lynch. Don't know why I was thinking 4 to lynch

[tanstalas]

@adrien-how is MoB off the hook exactly? she's offered nothing except scum tells this entire game. She's not as newbie as she claimed, pretty obvious from her posting.

I think he means off the hook for today, if you look at his post he says MoB can wait until tomorrow. Kyle just looks a little scummier than MoB now.

[tanstalas]

Your case is crap for a number of reasons:

1) Me lurking and not posting in the first 3 days would be incredibly stupid from a town standpoint and a scum standpoint, so the only logical reason for that would be that I forgot about this game.

2) I was comparing my 1 game related post to Makeorbreak's 0 game related posts.

3) My post was not "very defensive", merely questioning a questonable vote by Adrien. I had missed the first couple of pages and was attempting to get caught up, and Adrien was going after me when MoB had been active lurking, a much worse defense then plain old generic lurking.

@Adrien: Why the hell is MoB off the hook?

1) Like it has been said before with bookmarks, etc I find it hard to believe you forgot about the game, however, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, as you did not claim to have a photographic memory like another here

2) If you want to get technical MoB did contribute a little bit back on post #87, though it was not as well articulated as your post, and I hope that in the future she will put more thought into what she posts before she posts.

3)I was kind of referring to your last few posts, not that one in general. And by defensive I also mean throwing suspicion around, you tossed some suspicion at Adrien in post #97, and also voted for MoB in that post as well. Then MoB revenge voted you (which I admit was not a smart thing to do as it was JUST a vote, no reasoning behind it) you then spent the next 2 posts asking her what she put you at L-1. And when Adrien pointed out that you were basically doing the same thing as her you got defensive again saying you wern't lurking (uhh to our eyes you were lurking, you have said you forgot about the game, but you have to look at it from our point of view) and then you did the above post.

Oh and just noticed this as well:

No, I'm not. I've contributed some game content, albeit not a ton, haven't been using massive uses of AtE,

and don't lurk

and hammerfail like she did. I have no idea how your vote is still on me Adrien.

In the above quote you are saying you don't lurk, but in your last post you say:

My post was not "very defensive", merely questioning a questonable vote by Adrien. I had missed the first couple of pages and was attempting to get caught up, and Adrien was going after me when MoB had been active lurking, a much worse defense then plain old generic lurking.

Just wondering if you mean that you admit to "generic" lurking? Or if you mean that generic lurking just isn't as bad as active lurking?

I'm thinking you mean the former, but that would contradict your statement that you wern't lurking, so I am assuming that you mean active lurking is worse than generic lurking. I'm not sure what your definition of generic is, I would assume just not posting, in which case I would have to disagree with you. I'd rather see someone actually post anything than nothing at all.

There's no such thing as girls on the internet. Everyone knows that.

I remembered a funny quote I read once years ago.

"On the internet guys are guys, girls are guys and little children are the FBI"

Totally off-topic, but I remember that and thought it funny enough to share. Though to update it to today's stardards "FBI" should be replaced with "Chris Hanson"

[tanstalas]

Makeorbreak isn't an "obviously erractic" player, they are an obvious troll. Nobody makes statements about swinging their hair attractively and reacts that way she does that is serious. Trolls purposes are to ruin games, the longer Makeorbreak is kept around the more potential they have to ruin the game. It is better to get rid of them now while we have a ml then having them continue to troll later on when we can't afford a lynch of them if they are town. It is best to eleminate trolls early in the game then we can focus on kyle and etc.

I don't know if she is so much a troll as if she is confused on Mafia... She mentioned that the email address that she had that was found to be a dude was an "RP" email. I am assuming that is an acronym for "Role-Play". So maybe she thinks that Mafia is a role-playing type game?

I do agree that she and kyle are my #1 and #2 suspects, I just find that kyle may be the bigger threat ATM as he is an experienced player. Although if she doesn't start posting soon I'd be tempted to switch my vote to her and go after kyle tomorrow.

Just wondering as well what are everyones top 3 suspects so far in the game? I have already mentioned my top 2, my third would probably be yabba. I'm still wary as he asked for a deadline, he explained his reasoning for it, and it is not so much that he is acting really scummy, however aside from kyle and MoB - I don't really have a read on anyone else... yet

On saying the above though, if we do lynch MoB and she flips townie, I may put Kyle to the back-burner and pursue montgomery - as the majority of her posts this game have implicated MoB (With understanding as she is being very erratic) - or it could be that she is scum herself and sees it as an easy bandwagon-lynch vote.

All this talk about Adrien being scummy though - I just don't see it.. maybe it's my inexperience.

[tanstalas]

That "inexperience" that tanstalas thinks of her, is detrimental to town.

Hmmm?

I never made any posts in regards to my inexperience in regards to MoB, please don't put words in my mouth. I mentioned Adrien not seeing scummy to me in my inexperience. For MoB I have said in a few posts that she is behaving rather odd and that she is in my "top 3" list.

[tanstalas]

EBWOP: Sorry Beanman, just re-read your post, you are saying that my feelings that she is inexperienced is an excuse for her behavior I assume?

I do tolerate inexperience to a point, however, there are a ton of FAQ's and posts on here and other sites that give you some theory behind the game - and I have mentioned that to MoB in a previous post or two. I do not think she has taken my advice, that is why I agree with you that she is detrimental to the town. This is a newbie game and we are here to learn, she does not even seem to be making an attempt to learn the game.

[tanstalas]

@tan: I did explain my deadline query. I said that EVERY SINGLE OTHER NEWBIE GAME THAT I'VE SEEN OTHER THAN THIS ONE states the deadline up-front since it's mostly an ironclad 3 weeks. I was merely double-checking. Kind of a dick move to be double-checking the mod, but hey, I was just making sure he had it all under control. :\

Why are you dabbling into three suspects with only two Mafia in the game? Are you saying I'm a backup if one of the two is a mislynch?

@yabba, As I said in my previous post, that is the only reason why I even remotely suspect you, and it was moreso that I didn't find anyone else scummy as of yet. It's not like you are right behind those 2 in terms of being a suspect, I asked what everyone else thought were their top 3.. Woudn't be fair to ask that if I couldn't supply a top 3 myself

Acsii Summiness Chart

MoB---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yabba-(everyone else)
klye-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/

And as I said in previous post as well, my third suspect would probably change based on who we lynch and what they flipped

[tanstalas]

CC is counter claim. I've never seen FFS before.

For **** Sakes?

* word rhymes with Duck

[tanstalas]

@beanman - I don't know why you are so suspicious of the Kyle BW, you had him voted yourself at one point, I only voted for him when you retracted your vote as I wanted to keep pressure on him as I thought at the time he was the most likely person flipping scum (And I still do - but MoB's silence is starting to aggrevate me) I do not know if she is scum, but her playstyle is annoying to say the least. Is that a good reason to lynch someone?

As kyle said "Vote on who's scum and nothing else" - Best thing I think he has said all game.

Although now I am starting to wonder, if kyle flips scum, and you defending him so hard is that because you are his scum buddy? Or is this a WIFOM tactic so that we will think "He was defending him so hard - he possibly couldn't be scum because he knew kyle was most likely going down"

[tanstalas]

Unvote

I'm not convinced that kyle isn't scum, however at least he is starting to post. I would throw down a vote on MoB now - however like dekes I do not want to put her at L-1 before she has a chance to defend herself or get replaced. If her past post history in this game is any indication, then I think I will not be holding my breath on the former.

[tanstalas]

I'm pretty sure she e-mailing me is against the rules.

Well, if she gets modkilled then we have one less person to worry about

[tanstalas]

Welcome pacman!

I had a dream about this game last night, is that a good thing?

uh...no...no, it's not. It's a violation of rule 18.

Nice to see some posts coming from pacman, I'm leaning towards putting my vote back on to kyle, though I will wait until pacman has posted further.

And yabba - I think montgomery's reason for voting was the active lurking thing, if you ISO her and read her post #4 she mentions that. And then in every subsequent post she says troll or trolling. I think I found a new drinking game, everytime Mont says troll/trolling - take a shot.. I wonder how many pages of this thread I could get through..

[tanstalas]

Vote: Montgomery

She has gotten seriously quiet since MoB was replaced...
Did she drop off the side of the earth?

[tanstalas]

Tan-lurking is not a scumtell. Let the our great mod handle long periods of inactivity.

Sorry, have been busy and will just reply to the past couple of posts.

I should be able too write a summary on my thoughts of the past few pages in a few hours

. For the record I think MOB emailing is another act of trolling, the exact same thing happened to me last game and instead of resorting to emailing a fellow member of the game, I waited. It didn't take longer then 24 hours and surely because

MOB has been posting very sprodically throughout

- they would be okay with waiting the extra time. I just don't think someone who takes this game seriously would do something like that.

The above bolded is why I voted

First Bolded: Where is the post we were promised?
Second Bolded: MoB was posting sprodically? Assume you meant sporadically... anyhow that's like the kettle calling the teapot black, Mont's posting has been 3 saturday, 1 sunday, 8 monday, 1 tuesday and 1 thursday.

If she meant sporadically as in her posts were all over the place and didn't contribute much to the game, I will agree, however Mont's posts, while better were a lot of fluff as well. To sum up her 14 posts
1)RVS
2)EBWOP
3)RVS
4)OMGUS reply
5)Only decent post. Gives some reasoning behind voting MoB, throws a little suspicion on Adrien and questioning bean
6)Posts to ask to keep on topic
7)What does AtE mean?
8)Asks Dekes the exact same question she asked Bean in post #5
9)I know know what AtE is!
10)MoB is a troll
11)MoB is a troll
12)Roles are randomized
13)MoB is a troll
14)MoB is a troll

Basically, the only post Mont has made this game that helped move the game was made almost a week ago..

Also voted her as like I said in my previous post she has been strangely quiet since her #1 suspect has been replaced, would like her to comment on the latest happenings.

[tanstalas]

Tanstalas makes good points, but

I'm also wondering where Kyle disappeared off to.

Maybe there is a scum-buddy convention somewhere?

[tanstalas]

Tanstalas makes good points, but

I'm also wondering where Kyle disappeared off to.

Maybe there is a scum-buddy convention somewhere?

You are now on the verge of active lurking. I don't mean to be offensive, but could you please contribute to the game, in more ways, than just attacking players who are not defending themselves? AFK players get replaced, they do not get lynched.

I vote Mont because she had been lurking (well at least NOT posting) since her #1 suspect was replaced, you then tell me that is not a scumtell, so I go into a bigger post to explain all my reasoning behind voting for her (however you must have missed that post) but you just concentrate on my joke post about a scum-buddy convention and accuse me of active lurking?

I don't think that is any big surprise that the two people I have been most vocal about in this game in that I have FoS'd and voted for have been kyle and mont (refer back to ISO-9 post from me - and also was MoB for a bit there) - and now you are saying basically don't discuss who could be scum if they aren't here to defend themselves?

I mentioned those two way back in my ISO-9 post for not posting enough, they surfaced for a bit after that and now have slunk back to the shadows.

OK - fine, I won't bother posting again until those two start talking again.

If anyone needs me - I'll be lurking in the shadows with Mont and Kyle

[tanstalas]

ugh, i didn't mean that, i mean, there are other people discussing things, and I'd like to hear your 2 cents on them. I.E. what you think of Me, Adrien, Pac's PBPA.

Here - I'll break down everyone so I don't seem like I am "lurking"

Adrien - I originally thought all you guys were crazy for suspecting Adrien, though lately.. (Gonna sound like I'm parroting Dekes here) The "get her to L-1 and I'll hammer" thing is suspicious since the post just before that said he would not hammer kyle because he wants to give a person a chance to defend themself before he hammers. If we ever lynch pacmac(MoB) and he flips scum I'll be looking at Adrien; as he was all going after kyle but when it looked like MoB might be going down he was all gung-ho to take her out, and while Dekes thinks that he was doing that because he knew she would flip town I'd argue that he could be doing a case of bussing and saw that MoB might go down and wanted to distance himself from her.

Beanman - Like someone else mentioned, you have pointed your fingers at 5 out of a possible 8 players so far this game. Now I don't expect you to have a definite read on anyone since it's only day 1, but I'm seeing a lot of vote-switching. Also you seem to be very pro-kyle in your posts, actually doing a better job of defending kyle than kyle of defending kyle. If kyle flips scum, I'll be looking your way.

Dekes - He has seemed to move the game forward more than most of the other people in this game, I do not see anything scummy from him

pacman - For coming into game late I think he has a pretty good read on everyone and when prodded by yabba for more clarification I think he did a pretty good job answering his questions.

yabba - Not really much of a read on him. I am leaning towards him being pro-town as he is really one of the few people in this game that is trying to keep the day going as he doesn't seem to want a mislynch (or it could be that the town is leaning towards his scum buddy and wants to steer us away from them)

Tux - No real read on him either, going to say most likely pro-town, we seem to be looking at the same people (kyle and pre-pacman(MoB) though we do differ on dekes. I do not see anything scummy from dekes while I believe he is in Tux's top 3.

[tanstalas]

@ Dekes - He has until 5:56am EST (roughly 1 hour and 20 min from now)- according to Mod it is 72 hours, no more, no less lol

[tanstalas]

Although I should not be awake right now kyle has precisely 57 minutes from this post before prod.

Wish there was a cumulative timer. Sucks that you prod once every 72 hours, and they can make a quick post, then lurk for another 72 hours..

For a game where your rule #5 stated "I expect more than the bare minimum of posting" it's sad that you have had to send 2 prods(within a few hours of each other at that!) and we are still only in day 1

I feel for you man!

Go have a coffee or something

[tanstalas]

Dekes and Pacman - No read either way

yabba and Tux - Leaning anti-town

adrien and beanman - neutral - depending on if you or kyle die and what you flip to be

kyle and montgomery - leaning more towards anti-town than yabba and tux for reasons stated many times in previous posts

[tanstalas]

EBWOP: I meant to say leaning pro-town for yabba and tux

I know you asked for a more detailed explanation, however I have given elaborate explanations on my 2 biggest people I see as being the scum (kyle and montgomery)

[tanstalas]

EBWOOP:

Man, I did not sleep well today or something, also made a mistake with the kyle and montgomery line

"kyle and montgomery - leaning more towards anti-town than yabba and tux for reasons stated many times in previous posts" should read

"kyle and montgomery - leaning more towards anti-town than adrien and beanman for reasons stated many times in previous posts"

Basically on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being scum and 10 being town

montgomery 2
kyle 2.5
Adrien 5
Beanman 5
Dekes 6
Pacman 6 (MoB would have been a 3)
yabba 8
tux 8

I am not sure about anyone, hence why there are no 1's or 10's.. oh wait

tanstalas 10

[tanstalas]

ISO28-states he's going to the same thing he's suspicious of kyle and montgomery for doing, and start lurking...(when the two of them are actually just inactive, this is what first pinged my scumdar)
ISO29-Gives a PBPA of a few people(but really only gave everyone a sentence except me and Adrian. everyone else was less than a sentence. Dekes has been pushing the game forward the most in your eyes? He's doing what you've been doing, targeting inactive players. How does that move the game forward?)
ISO30-tells dekes about times for inactive player to get pinged
ISO31-makes a comment to the Mod
ISO32-34 states he has a null-town read on everyone but the 2 inactive players.

Tentalas has done pretty much nothing but target the people who haven't posted much and inactive players. This is an extremely lazy way to play this game, as they are the easiest targets to get picked off. This is also a common scum tactic to pull. He's been on or attempted to be on every single opportunistic bandwagon as Dekes has tried to be on. In fact they both have joined wagons near the exact same time. With all the information so far this game, he doesn't even really have a FoS on ANYONE but the inactive people.

I find this questionable at best, and scum at worst.

I realized during my insane typing of my case on Dekes, there really isn't anything that attaches him to yabba. But if you look at tent's play, similar bandwagoning with dekes and joining of almost identical times, I think there is quite the connection between these two. so yeah.

unvote:vote Dekes

I'm just going to address the posts you find "suspicious"
Also what you listed as ISO-28 shows as my ISO-29, but whatever

ISO-28 - You have a very poor sense of sarcasm Beanman, obviously I wasn't going to just start lurking and not post anything. I like how you twist the whole post into just saying I am going to start lurking, when in fact the reason I made that post was to ask how me responding to your comment that I am on the verge of active lurking because I made a joke in the thread.

ISO-29 - I said he has been moving the game forward more than MOST. IE: he is in the top 4 people in this game that are pushing the game onwards, I did not say that he was the only person, nor was the person moving if forward the MOST. Read closer, the word "MOST" changes the whole read of that sentence

ISO-30 - So apparently because I correct a player that makes me scummy?

ISO-31 - So apparently I can't make comments to the mod either, because that makes me suspicious?

ISO-32 - 34 - I said I thought kyle and montgomery were most likely scum, and then if I had to choose who after that was scum it would be you and adrien depending on if pacman or kyle got lynched and how the flipped. I said that yabba and tux I think are pro-town. The only ones I had no real read on were Deskes and pacman. (well I guess if you want to get technical it was also you and adrien - but like I said before if one of those others got lynched and flipped whatever way I'd have a better "feeling" of you two)

@ the bolded - I really don't know if I should defend myself on this, as I will have to bring kyle and montgomery into this conversation again and then you will start beating the "Leave the inactive players alone" horse again.

I will give you the montgomery thing, partially (I did mention that kyle and mont needed to start posting more back on my ISO-9 post). I didn't really focus in on her until after she had disappeared, however, I stated very clearly in a couple posts why she had risen on my suspect list. As far as the kyle thing goes, I have been on him since almost the start of the game, and was on him as well when he "wasn't" inactive.

So, tell you what, I will take my vote off montgomery, as you are right, I have poised her questions and she is not here to defend herself. When/if she gets back she can answer my questions. As well, it appears kyle has not been on the site for awhile and is not just avoiding this game..

I do think they are both scummy though, I already made that one post saying they haven't posted enough near the start of the game and now they are doing it again.. Takes a couple sec to log in and say "Sorry that I haven't been around, I'll post tomorrow" or "Hey Jack, can you get me a replacement?"

I mean something also may have happened personally, maybe a family member died or their house blew up and that is why they haven't posted. I just don't know.

In the meantime until we get replacements or they come back

Unvote

[tanstalas]

ISO26-Gives ISO of Montgomery, but no real information, except montgomery is not posting

What is considered to you to be "real information"? I mentioned why I was voting for her here #1 because she promised us a post of a summary on her thoughts of the last few pages since well, she hadn't posted in 2 days at that point, and #2 reason was because in her posts she was actively lurking, she only made one post in her 14 that contributed to the game. (seriously Beanman, I love how you cherry pick your ISO's, I'm thinking I should go back and redo all yours as you only seem to want to post stuff that makes me look bad) - Oh and yes another reason would be because at this point (when I posted this) she was MIA for 3 days.

ISO27-states Montgomery and Kyle are at a scum-buddy convention for not posting.

Again, wow, come on man, take a joke, hence the emoticon

Tentalas has done pretty much nothing but target the people who haven't posted much and inactive players. This is an extremely lazy way to play this game, as they are the easiest targets to get picked off. This is also a common scum tactic to pull. He's been on or attempted to be on

every single

opportunistic bandwagon as Dekes has tried to be on. In fact they both have joined wagons near the exact same time. With all the information so far this game, he doesn't even really have a FoS on ANYONE but the inactive people. I find this questionable at best, and scum at worst.

Yes, I target the people who haven't posted much, to get an informed decision I need them to post, I am sorry, I do not have psychic powers. The only power I have is MY VOTE - usually in mafia games I play when you start getting votes on people they "magically" show up and say they forgot about the game or whatever and start to post.

As far as your "I have tried to be on every BW that Dekes has been on" I had to check that out
I voted for kyle on Monday the 26th at 7:08pm
Dekes had HIS vote on yabba at this time. On Tuesday at 10:03am he changed his vote to kyle after making points on both MoB and kyle

Dekes voted for MoB on thursday at 3:51am
I unvoted kyle on thursday at 8:10am, though I said he was still a suspect
Dekes switched to Mont on friday at 3:33pm
On Saturday I voted for Mont at 8:46pm

So I guess you could say they were "close" however - if your logic works out, why didn't I vote on yabba's vote, or on the MoB vote? You said EVERY SINGLE opportunistic bandwagon. Oh and also in one case I voted first for someone and in the other case he voted first.

Oh and at one point of the game, I am sure EVERYONE can agree on this, kyle was the person who looked like the #1 suspect.

On the Mont front, I explained why I voted for her, as did Dekes

You are actually looking scummy to me Beanman by misquoting me or massaging the words to make me look guilty.

I would have thought you would have looked out for that sort of thing, especially when you complained earlier about yabba misquoting you in your ISO16:

This is where misquoting becomes bad. I said, if one flips scum, there is a "good case." Adrien is completely implicated. He has been pushing Kyle the hardest, while he has applyed NO pressure on MoB(even though she's "number 2" on his list...) and also, MoB stated she's going to just use Adriens logic in her votes, as taken from post 134. Also Adrien said MoB was completely off the hook(only to "change it later") in the same post he continued to continue to push the vote on kyle.

I'm starting to think you just want to knock of townies and throw dissent around, would explain why you have vote-hopped almost everyone. Reading your last post I thought I was going to get the honor of vote #5 (of a possible 8)

Vote: Beanman

(Hey, you're here! You can't be upset with me voting you)

[tanstalas]

@ tent-you know you basically confirmed everything i said, therefore I didnt misquote you @ all... Nice omgus as well, again w/i 24 hours of dekes... can we kill these 2 scum already?

OK - You obviously didn't read my post, I will take some of that blame because I should not have put my replies in the quote box, here I will make it easier to read then you can see why I am saying you are misquoting/massaging what I say to make me look like scum

You - ISO26-Gives ISO of Montgomery, but no real information, except montgomery is not posting

Me - What is considered to you to be "real information"? I mentioned why I was voting for her here #1 because she promised us a post of a summary on her thoughts of the last few pages since well, she hadn't posted in 2 days at that point, and #2 reason was because in her posts she was actively lurking, she only made one post in her 14 that contributed to the game. (seriously Beanman, I love how you cherry pick your ISO's, I'm thinking I should go back and redo all yours as you only seem to want to post stuff that makes me look bad) - Oh and yes another reason would be because at this point (when I posted this) she was MIA for 3 days.

You - ISO27-states Montgomery and Kyle are at a scum-buddy convention for not posting.

Me - Again, wow, come on man, take a joke, hence the emoticon

You - Tentalas has done pretty much nothing but target the people who haven't posted much and inactive players. This is an extremely lazy way to play this game, as they are the easiest targets to get picked off. This is also a common scum tactic to pull. He's been on or attempted to be on

every single opportunistic bandwagon

as Dekes has tried to be on. In fact they both have joined wagons near the exact same time. With all the information so far this game, he doesn't even really have a FoS on ANYONE but the inactive people. I find this questionable at best, and scum at worst.

Me - Yes, I target the people who haven't posted much, to get an informed decision I need them to post, I am sorry, I do not have psychic powers. The only power I have is MY VOTE - usually in mafia games I play when you start getting votes on people they "magically" show up and say they forgot about the game or whatever and start to post.

As far as your "I have tried to be on every BW that Dekes has been on" I had to check that out
I voted for kyle on Monday the 26th at 7:08pm
Dekes had HIS vote on yabba at this time. On Tuesday at 10:03am he changed his vote to kyle after making points on both MoB and kyle

Dekes voted for MoB on thursday at 3:51am
I unvoted kyle on thursday at 8:10am, though I said he was still a suspect
Dekes switched to Mont on friday at 3:33pm
On Saturday I voted for Mont at 8:46pm

So I guess you could say they were "close" however - if your logic works out, why didn't I vote on yabba's vote, or on the MoB vote? You said EVERY SINGLE opportunistic bandwagon. Oh and also in one case I voted first for someone and in the other case he voted first.

Oh and at one point of the game, I am sure EVERYONE can agree on this, kyle was the person who looked like the #1 suspect.

On the Mont front, I explained why I voted for her, as did Dekes


And then the stuff outside the quote box

[tanstalas]

EBWOP - and BTW, my nick does not have an "e" in it anywhere.. I think you are going camping everytime you refer to me as tent

[tanstalas]

You backed up your post with a lot of fluff that read to me as OMGUS. Either way, my case on you has proven to be quite legitimate, as NO ONE, but your BW buddy, has a pro-town read on you...

I'm assuming that the above was directed at me.

Again, I will ask you to stop misquoting me, at least do your homework before you start spewing out random crap

Dekes and Pacman - No read either way

yabba and Tux - Leaning anti-town

adrien and beanman - neutral - depending on if you or kyle die and what you flip to be

kyle and montgomery - leaning more towards anti-town than yabba and tux for reasons stated many times in previous posts

What part of "No read either way" made you think I said pro-town? Seriously man, at least try.

Still reading the new posts, a lot has been going on since I was sleeping, and will probably re-read so I don't miss anything and will make a new post in the next 12 hours (at work atm)

[tanstalas]

For the time being, until the new guys get caught up

Vote: Unvote

Like I said in my previous post, I will be re-reading what happened recently and making a post of it, next 12 hours I am here at work so I'll wait until it dies down a little.

I did want to address the below though before I forgot about it, especially the bolded

Well you can take a peak and find that Cliquey has never been scum on this site.

I really don't care to dredge through my old account for scum. If you care to look up Greenliquid's large Post Restriction game. I think I was scum in there, I don't remember if I replaced, however. Arguably, I did include a scum meta in those 6 games/18 replacements. As I said only 2 of those replacements in the games were scum, they're there but at a statistically lower chance than a town-replacements.

Anyways, I'm at page 5 now, I hope you guys stopped being nice at some point in this thread.

I just want to make sure I am reading this right, basically you are saying you are most likely town because all of the games you played as Cliquey here you have ALWAYS been town?

As I found out when reading the wikis here they use random.org to determine the alignments. So really, if you are starting out, you would have a 2/9 chance of being scum. If you are replacing in, I have no idea what that stat would be, you would have to know what % of people who are scum quit a game prematurely vs who is town. IE: (This is just for example) If 100% of people who always needed replacement were scum, then there would be a 100% chance that you are scum. If that number was 50% of people that needed replacement were scum and you had a 2/9 chance since there are 9 people (with 2 scum roles on 1st day) then you would have an 11.1% chance of being scum (2 divided by 9 * 0.5).

Also the fact that you have NEVER been placed into a scum role is actually probably less likely than being placed into the role at least once.

Granted if it is 50% of scum that need replacement then you only have a 11.1% chance then it could very likely be that you have just gotten lucky. Though like I said without knowing the actual % of roles being replaced all the above is just a hypothesis.

The above math I "think" is correct, been a good decade since I did post-secondary statistics - if I made a mistake, please feel free to correct me

[tanstalas]

EBWOP- Ignore my above post, I see Adrien already addressed about it in post 427... oh god, now I'm parroting Adrien, Beanman is going to have a field day with that one

I guess I should read all the new posts before I make a comment

[tanstalas]

It means that the replacements have a marginally smaller chance of being scum.

Prove? You don't need reasoning in math, just keep adding datum and refining the mathematical expression of the relationship. With a large enough sample there is only 2 variables that matter. Replace (Y/N) Alignment (M/T). 31 data points over 10 games have supported that Ry correlates positively with Am.

I'm ready to move past it, we have a German to string up.

I don't think your sample matters...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the % chance to be replaced into a game is ALWAYS going to be the same % based on the % of scum or town that needs to be replaced.

IE: back to previous example:
If replacements are ALWAYS for scum then you will ALWAYS be scum.
If replacements are ALWAYS for town then you will ALWAYS be town.

You really can't say that based on last game I can't be scum/town

Being replaced into a previous game as something has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on what you will be in a new game

Like I said, the only way to determine the chances would be to know of the % of people who replace out what % are scum and what % are town. Then you could make an educated guess on what you % chance you had to replace a scum or town. However, even if you replaced into 10 games in a row as town does not mean that the next game will be scum. You have the exact same % as every other game.

Like flipping a coin, you have a 50/50 chance of heads. Can you get 10 heads in a row, unlikely, but it is possible.
On flip 1 what is the chance of a heads? 50%
On flip 2 what is the chance of a heads? 50%
On flip 3 what is the chance of a heads? 50%
etc
...
On flip 10 what is the chance of a heads? 50%

Now the chance of actually flipping heads 10/10 is a lot lower than 50%, and I forget how to calculate it, think its like 0.5^10.. or could be wrong, that was High school math and that was over 15 years ago

[tanstalas]

@ tent-you know you basically confirmed everything i said, therefore I didnt misquote you @ all... Nice omgus as well, again w/i 24 hours of dekes... can we kill these 2 scum already?

OK - just preview edited this, and I am very sorry for the wall of text, especially since it is just re-hashing stuff from previous posts, but Beanman is not answering my rebuttal of his accusations.

OK - I re-read the last few pages 3 times to make sure I didn't miss Beanman explaining why he misquoted me on multiple occasions. I would really, REALLY like an explanation of the following since he said in the above quote he did not misquote me at all:

Everything from my post #360.
You said I gave no information from my ISO26 (which is actualy my ISO27 because you listed 2 ISO23's the second one should be 24) and I asked you what you meant by "real information" my ISO27 is:

Tan-lurking is not a scumtell. Let the our great mod handle long periods of inactivity.

Sorry, have been busy and will just reply to the past couple of posts.

I should be able too write a summary on my thoughts of the past few pages in a few hours

. For the record I think MOB emailing is another act of trolling, the exact same thing happened to me last game and instead of resorting to emailing a fellow member of the game, I waited. It didn't take longer then 24 hours and surely because

MOB has been posting very sprodically throughout

- they would be okay with waiting the extra time. I just don't think someone who takes this game seriously would do something like that.

The above bolded is why I voted

First Bolded: Where is the post we were promised?
Second Bolded: MoB was posting sprodically? Assume you meant sporadically... anyhow that's like the kettle calling the teapot black, Mont's posting has been 3 saturday, 1 sunday, 8 monday, 1 tuesday and 1 thursday.

If she meant sporadically as in her posts were all over the place and didn't contribute much to the game, I will agree, however Mont's posts, while better were a lot of fluff as well. To sum up her 14 posts
1)RVS
2)EBWOP
3)RVS
4)OMGUS reply
5)Only decent post. Gives some reasoning behind voting MoB, throws a little suspicion on Adrien and questioning bean
6)Posts to ask to keep on topic
7)What does AtE mean?
8)Asks Dekes the exact same question she asked Bean in post #5
9)I know know what AtE is!
10)MoB is a troll
11)MoB is a troll
12)Roles are randomized
13)MoB is a troll
14)MoB is a troll

Basically, the only post Mont has made this game that helped move the game was made almost a week ago..

Also voted her as like I said in my previous post she has been strangely quiet since her #1 suspect has been replaced, would like her to comment on the latest happenings.

You misquoted me in your ISO52:

ISO29-Gives a PBPA of a few people(but really only gave everyone a sentence except me and Adrian. everyone else was less than a sentence. Dekes has been pushing the game forward the most in your eyes? He's doing what you've been doing, targeting inactive players. How does that move the game forward?)

When I said:

Dekes - He has seemed to move the game forward more than most of the other people in this game, I do not see anything scummy from him

There is a HUGE difference between saying he has pushed the game forward the MOST versus he has pushed the game forward MORE THAN MOST.

This next one I just found funny that you didn't see it as a joke (hence the emoticons), when I am sure everyone else did:

@ Everyone

, did anyone aside from Beanman

not

assume that this was a joke?

Tanstalas makes good points, but

I'm also wondering where Kyle disappeared off to.

Maybe there is a scum-buddy convention somewhere?

You are now on the verge of active lurking. I don't mean to be offensive, but could you please contribute to the game, in more ways, than just attacking players who are not defending themselves? AFK players get replaced, they do not get lynched.

Next one, because it was the "first one" that pinged your radar. You said recently you were being sarcastic in a post, so you know what sarcasm is, but yet you couldn't tell?

ISO28-states he's going to the same thing he's suspicious of kyle and montgomery for doing, and start lurking...(when the two of them are actually just inactive, this is what first pinged my scumdar)

To which I replied:

ISO-28 - You have a very poor sense of sarcasm Beanman, obviously I wasn't going to just start lurking and not post anything. I like how you twist the whole post into just saying I am going to start lurking, when in fact the reason I made that post was to ask how me responding to your comment that I am on the verge of active lurking because I made a joke in the thread.

And another misquote:

ISO32-34 states he has a null-town read on everyone but the 2 inactive players.

What I said:

ISO-32 - 34 - I said I thought kyle and montgomery were most likely scum, and then if I had to choose who after that was scum it would be you and adrien depending on if pacman or kyle got lynched and how the flipped. I said that yabba and tux I think are pro-town. The only ones I had no real read on were Deskes and pacman. (well I guess if you want to get technical it was also you and adrien - but like I said before if one of those others got lynched and flipped whatever way I'd have a better "feeling" of you two)

I gave a hard "no read" on 2 people, not on everyone BUT 2..

Then there was your "Dekes and I must be scum because we BW vote everyone together" rant:

Tentalas has done pretty much nothing but

target the people who haven't posted much and inactive players.

This is an extremely lazy way to play this game, as they are the easiest targets to get picked off. This is also a common scum tactic to pull.

He's been on or attempted to be on every single opportunistic bandwagon as Dekes has tried to be on.

In fact they both have joined wagons near the exact same time. With all the information so far this game, he doesn't even really have a FoS on ANYONE but the inactive people. I find this questionable at best, and scum at worst.

Which I said for first underlined part:

Yes, I target the people who haven't posted much, to get an informed decision I need them to post, I am sorry, I do not have psychic powers. The only power I have is MY VOTE - usually in mafia games I play when you start getting votes on people they "magically" show up and say they forgot about the game or whatever and start to post.

And for second underlined part:

I voted for kyle on Monday the 26th at 7:08pm
Dekes had HIS vote on yabba at this time. On Tuesday at 10:03am he changed his vote to kyle after making points on both MoB and kyle

Dekes voted for MoB on thursday at 3:51am
I unvoted kyle on thursday at 8:10am, though I said he was still a suspect
Dekes switched to Mont on friday at 3:33pm
On Saturday I voted for Mont at 8:46pm

So I guess you could say they were "close" however -

if your logic works out, why didn't I vote on yabba's vote, or on the MoB vote? You said EVERY SINGLE opportunistic bandwagon.

Oh and also in one case I voted first for someone and in the other case he voted first.

Oh and at one point of the game, I am sure EVERYONE can agree on this, kyle was the person who looked like the #1 suspect.

On the Mont front, I explained why I voted for her, as did Dekes

And then there was this one, which you probably haven't seen yet, because you are sleeping, but I will include it here as well so you can just reply to this one post.

You backed up your post with a lot of fluff that read to me as OMGUS. Either way, my case on you has proven to be quite legitimate, as NO ONE, but your BW buddy, has a pro-town read on you...

I'm assuming that the above was directed at me.

Again, I will ask you to stop misquoting me, at least do your homework before you start spewing out random crap

Dekes and Pacman - No read either way

yabba and Tux - Leaning anti-town

adrien and beanman - neutral - depending on if you or kyle die and what you flip to be

kyle and montgomery - leaning more towards anti-town than yabba and tux for reasons stated many times in previous posts

What part of "No read either way" made you think I said pro-town? Seriously man, at least try.

I would like an explanation on the above. Seriously. Dekes and I come back with a rebuttal and all you do it say "hahaha you fell into my trap, now I shall vote myself and when I flip town the town will know you are scum" You have played this game well Beanman, however, I hate when I see people self-lynch themselves, seems very anti-town to me.

I'm not saying you are scum, I still do think the previous kyle and montgomery are. However you wanted me to look at other people who were not inactive. After you gave your ISO on me and I saw so many things you said either (take your pick of the word you want to use) misquoted, misrepresented, massaged (to your benefit) or mistaking what I said how could I not rebuttal you and go after you? You made yourself look like scum to me because I know I am town and you pushing for a lynch on me seems very scummy.

I will await your answer, in the meantime

HOS:Beanman

(yeah - I'm giving you the WHOLE hand)

[tanstalas]

Neither Kyle nor Montgomery are in this game, get with the 20th century.

It's actually the 21st century

Anyhow, you knew what I meant, if not, I will rephrase:

I still think that Cliquey and McG are the scum

See that didn't sound right...

Maybe I should have said I think the "new" kyle and montgomery are scum or I think the people replacing kyle and montgomery ie: cliquey and McG are scum.

There!

[tanstalas]

@tant-my accusation on you is that you are lazy. Almost 20 pages in and you have yet to prove otherwise. You are still frigging OMGUS'ing because I ISO'd you. Why keep up that when no one is lynching me today? stop being so damn lazy, and start scumhunting...

Awesome, way to keep deflecting. I assume you do not think I brought up valid points in my rebuttle, even though you stated many times you did not misquote me..

@All

- Would you agree with my post about him misquoting me, misinterpreting me, changing my posts/actions around to look scummier than they actually were?

@Beanman

- If the majority of the others agree with you I will drop it, if the majority agree with me will you finally admit you were wrong? I just find it hilarious that you are busting my balls for "being lazy" when I can name many more people in this game that I think are "lazier" and less active than me, and yet you leave them alone. Seriously, my read on you is if I would have been less active posting on this board you would not think I was scum.

[tanstalas]

@dekes, to answer your question, yes and no. I'm playing a different style of play than i usually do. i have been reaction baiting everyone, to gauge who reacts pro townly and anti-town on a number of subjects, while also questioning motives and possible agenda's. my analasys, is there are 3 people who haven't dont anything scummy all game. Myself, Adrien, and kyle(no kyle is not here, but his role is). these 3 people are obvtown. everyone else I am still on the fence as no one screams townie but these 3. you and tant scream mafia to me, and are in my opinion, the two that should be loooked at as todayls lynch. I will know w/o a question of a doubt if yabba is scum on day 2.

@ anyone, ok, can someone please clarify on who has replaced who? specifically who replaced kyle so I know who is townie. thank you

Thank you McGriddle and Cliquey for replacing montgomery and kyle. I will post the updated vote count. All votes carry over.

Would you like me to look up anything else for you?

[tanstalas]

it doesn't exactly answer my question. which person took which roles.

...and you have the nerve to call me lazy, lol ironic

McG replaced Mont, Cliquey replaced kyle

[tanstalas]

Slight town lean != Pro-town, and way to ignore the other, what was it, 5 things I mentioned?

[tanstalas]

im not going to waste my time responding to wall o text w/ a wall o text. if you want a response here it is. Im right. there you go. now i have another accusation. wtf are you HoSing someone who even the IC and SE have stated that I'm obvtown? what happened to your suspicions on our replacements? they're talking. being active. well cliquey is at least. ask ur questions.

Fine.

@Cliquey - You have said that you are leaning slightly towards me being scum, and you are convinced that Dekes is (And gave your reasoning). Do you have a read on any of the other players? You mentioned Beanman sits poorly with you, however you have explained your reasoning for that. You have read through all the posts more recently so you are more familiar with all the posts probably as they are still fresh in your mind. Can you give us a rundown on the other players, and what sort of read you get from them?

Also curious as to why the lean towards me?

@McG - Same question, but I'd like your read on all the players since you haven't said anything yet.

@both - I know it is going to be very hard to post stuff without seeming like you are parroting as pretty much everything in this game has already been scruntinized by yabba, Beanman and Adrien

[tanstalas]

I must really say I am not liking Cliquey's attitude, I do not think calling Dekes an asshole and telling him to "go die" for asking him not to include meaning of German words in his case against him as his understanding of German was not up to par was a bad thing, and saying "not game related" before it I do not think that should make it ok.

I also do not like how he keeps going back to the "stats" thing about being replaced in = he is not scum, and now he has started with saying that McG can't be scum either. Something about going back to that over and over doesn't sit right with me. Also the fact he doesn't like to do a PBPA on other players. I hope McG doesn't mind doing one, I would like a fresh perspective on it all. I am still waiting to hear from McG - it has been 13 hours since he posted saying he will be back with his "reread" soon.

I still do not think Dekes is as scummy as you all think. My top 2 suspects are still Cliques and McG. However McG hasn't posted enough to get any sort of tells yet, and Cliques keeps beating the statistics horse to death. Saying over and over he is pro-town doesn't sit right with me. Once or twice may have been ok, but Adrien even asked him to drop it and I see he brought it up again today.

@Dekes - RE: Your question on the Tux thing, I agree, I even forget he is playing sometimes because he is flying so low under the radar.

P.S. What does AtS mean? I looked at the page you mentioned yabba and did not see it. Update it!

[tanstalas]

@yabba - Oh shit son, now you've done it! Beanman is going to be all over you for voting for an inactive person

In all seriousness, I'd have my vote right there next to yours - for reasons given in viewtopic.php?p=2416074#p2416074 However, I am giving the replacee a chance to post so Beanman doesn't accuse me of going after the inactive and easy targets again.

P.S. Bruins suck. Though I am happy they got Tyler Sequin with the #2 draft pick... as it is better than the Leafs getting him

[tanstalas]

Alright, srsly, 4 people have now been questionably active lurking. Logic dictates that Active lurking is NOT a scumtell by this, as only 2 of the 4 people *could* be scum.

Tant you are a idiot

@everyone-In all seriousness, regardless if McG has offered anything, a lynch on him would be nothing but STUPID right now. no information gained. No progression of actual game play. If the IC was being Pro-Town, he would realize this, But our IC has been having the townies run around like chicken's with their head's cut off, trying to get us to Mis-lynch cliquey over here, first, now McG. His arguments aren't even convincing, shyt, the guys even tried to argue the dictionary during this game...

We should kill Dekes, it's the only intelligent kill at this point to make. Regardless if he turns up town or mafia, it gives us a crap ton of information to work with.

*sigh*

I would love to know why I am an idiot Beanman? I actually think you are, I think you are barking up the wrong tree with Dekes, and I know you are barking up the wrong tree with me.

Vote: Dekes

I'm hoping you all have seen the scum in our midst better than I have and I am hoping I am just naive in thinking he isn't. However, I do agree that this day has gone on for a long time. I

WANT

both McG and Dekes to post before someone hammers him though. If anyone hammers him before those two post I will be seriously upset, but on the upside I know who I will be voting for ASAP on day 2.

I do agree with the reasoning of whatever he flips will give us additional information, however I think we are going after the wrong person *points at Cliquey and McG)

[tanstalas]

Wow, thought we would be into N1 by now.

@McG - still waiting to hear from you your stances on all the players, or at least who you think are your top 2(at least) suspects, and your reasons behind it?

[tanstalas]

Wow, thought we would be into N1 by now.

@McG - still waiting to hear from you your stances on all the players, or at least who you think are your top 2(at least) suspects, and your reasons behind it?

Go read it then.

This is kind of suspicious because it makes me feel like you haven't been keeping up with the game, and that you're just looking to lay low and create a little drama.

As for bean. You are getting way too upset. Chill.

This..

This ^ is your reason for voting for me. It is a very dumb reason. Nothing in there shouts scum, it shouts bad time. And of COURSE he flew under the radar and was inactive, he had to be replaced, so they obviously didn't care about posting ITT. Your 4 lined case on her, and your nothing on me for a vote is completely ridiculous, and for that I would vote you, but I see how this game is going and if I did I would get the "Oh! Oh! He OMGUS'd Get him!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Despite my obvious reason to want you dead. Everyone else has done scummy things but do not strike me as predominantly scummy. I reserve my opinion on everyone else for when something else comes up that includes them.

One major thing I'd like to bring to everyones attention though is that he buddies with everyone in his PBP analysis except for me. And if you notice he semi-stands up for Dekes. So right now I see a Yabba/Dekes scum pair.

This is your PBPA of all the players? Seems more like you defending yourself against yabba's comments against you and trying to deflect suspicion back onto him.

Now I like your quote of "This is kind of suspicious because it makes me feel like you haven't been keeping up with the game" as it fits perfectly with what you are doing right now as you didn't even PARROT anyone on Dekes, you just said yabba/dekes scumpair. You said you reserve your opinion on everyone else for when something comes up that includes them. Well you included Dekes and yabba in your post, what is it that you find suspect in Dekes?

And I did not find that his post was "sticking up" for Dekes, just mentioning that the "proof" that has been put against him isn't wholly justifiable.

When you say he stands up for everyone else in his pbpa, did you even read his whole pbpa, he suspects Adrien as well. Do you expect him to think there are more than two scum? He suspects you and Adrien, if one of you get lynched and flip town I am sure he will come up with another suspect. At least he put some thought into his post and gave reasoning for voting you, which is more than I can say for you.

[tanstalas]

No, because all those people are also suspicious of Pacman and Tux for almost identical reasons. Which was Lack of activity. I really have yet to see anything that has been presented against any of them that screams SCUMMY. There is no higher likelihood there is more scum on your wagon than Cliqueys, as 1/2 the wagon are the same people, I'm obvtown, and then we have cliquey. The fact that McG hasn't quickhammered, actually makes him less suspicious in my eye. Regardless of any of that, we all have the same likelyhood of being cast into our roles, so your logic doesn't work....

This is true - it was very hard early game to determine who was scum as kyle, mont and MoB were all inactive or just plain fuckin' crazy. I'll let you guess who the crazy one was. Now that we have replacements it is getting better, though McG either isn't getting what I asked him or is trying to be subterfuge and he is still high on my radar. While Cliquey(kyle) is 2nd or 3rd on it.

If you flip town, I am going to push for a McG lynch tomorrow - If I am still here - as his predecessor was vague and he is doing the same thing (in my eyes)

[tanstalas]

@McG - Dekes and yabba were your two top suspects. You have been fairly quiet since you replaced into this game and the person you replaced was also very vague, in all her posts I think she only made one "substantial" post, the rest just used the word troll or trolling. I would really like to hear from you on who are your top 2 suspects now, since the two people you suspected are now confirmed as town.

FoS: McG

[tanstalas]

Vote: Cliquey

1)AtS

2)Sticking up for McG feverently, and has a town-read on him with only 10 posts? With 4 of those posts being fluff, 1 post of actually contributing something and then 5 posts defending his previous post?
(On a side note - I asked McG who is top 2 suspects were and in MY opinion he DID NOT answer that, though he posted a smartass remark telling me to go read it - well today he says that he never said they were scum - which IS true, but then why wouldn't you give me your top 2? Saying if X flips town then Y must be scum and vice versa is only telling me who you think 1 person is scum, not 2) - This is also why I am tempted to turn my FoS into a vote, but I do not want to put him at L-1 just yet as Tux seems to have a heavy hand.

3)Attacking Adrien for posting 6 minutes after day starts (I get notifications sent to my smartphone when someone makes a post) I can log on and do a quick reply in less than 6 minutes, this was not the case - however I do not know why you would consider this a scumtell - I know you explained your reasoning why, however in this day when everything is so connected I cannot fathom why you can't see how easy it would be to post.

4)Attacking Adrien from thinking from a scum point of view. (If you want to catch scum you should think like them)

5)Comparing Adrien's post with what time he "normally" posts (on a sidenote I work 7pm - 7am Sunday - Tuesday and every second wwednesday) usually on those days I will be posting between those times, on other days I will and can post at different times. Using this as a scumtell is also very weak.

@Tux - I will agree with Cliquey in that I would like to hear what you have to say

[tanstalas]

Wow, Tan ninja-ed me...

Booyah Grandma!

[tanstalas]

Bean, your location had me type your name thusly

Tans, that is unfair. I'm not allowed to talk anymore about the ATS (which basically is you guys saying "I'm too stupid to understand math, therefore you are scummy). Yet I can still be attacked for it.
Also unfair is that people can have a scum read on McG, but I'm not allowed to have a town read on him? Wow.
I found Adrien's entire first post from the beginning of the day to be suspect. Do you not read the scum point of view coming from it or the role fishing? Overarching all this is how Jack has seemed to start the day immediately after he had all responses instead of allowing the common 72hours and that I was still V/LA.
"If you want to catch scum you should think like them"? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? If you want to catch scum you should look for the people who are acting like scum. Jesus christ. If you have a flock of sheep, and you suspect that there is a wolf in there in sheep's clothing do you
A. Dress up like a sheep and look the for member of the flock acting wolfishly
or
B. Dress up like a wolf and try to howl for other wolves?
The time matter was a minor part of it. The scumthough/fishing is much more important part of that assessment.


Bean. I never said to manipulate you. But have you read a single one of your posts? You are doing exactly what I expected. Anything makes you fire off. You have called nearly everyone obvtown and obvscum in this game. You cannot hold a train, every post of yours has been basically flatulence with a different train than the post before it. That is what I mean, keep you in control instead of attacking every single person. You are raw, you come from a site (which I've researched) where scumhunting is very different than here. You can shit at everyone and you may get lucky, here you can't.
As to town advice, maybe I jumped the gun. But I posted anyways because my overall finding was that THERE WASN'T CRUMBING. I was reading into it.
Basically what you're saying is that things are OK when you are doing it (against MoB, Kyle etc. etc.) but when someone else does it its scummy. Got you are sparklingly consistent with your inconsistency.


Please read this. Stop using words that have accepted communal meanings to mean what they don't mean. You are keeping the connotation of bussing (ie scum) yet you aren't using the word remotely correctly.

Dealing with adrien in another post.

Oh, you can talk about AtS all you want, it was Adrien who asked you to stop. I found it amusing that you said that you and he COULD NOT be scum since you replaced into that game. Going by that logic then pacman can't be either, which leaves the scum between myself, Adrien, Beanman and Tux.

Did you read my post? I gave a good reason why I have a scummy feeling from him, he basically contradicted himself today when he said that he didn't tell us who he thought scum was the other day, but the other day I asked him who he thought was scum, or at least give two people he suspected, he made a post then I asked him again, who are the two people you suspect and he got snarky and told me to read his post, well to me that sounds like he was saying "I told you who the two were" well, today he back-peddled on that stance. Also his comment of "Why would I want both my two suspects dead" - Sounds WIFOM-y to me.

The part about thinking like a scum came from the fact that you attacked Adrien for thinking like someone who was scum. I think most of us were probably analyzing who would most likely be scum from the dekes flip. Adrien just happened to be the first one on and vocalize it. I was actually going to comment on his post as well as they "Did anyone learn anything?" comment at the end seemed a little off to me, almost like he was fishing for a cop to come out and say something, which would be stupid as hell on day 2 when we have 2 scum left.

[tanstalas]

You have me listed as both not voting and as voting for Cliquey - the vote is correct - actually you have everyone not voting

Btw also posting from my phone so excuse any spelling mistakes (text is incredibly small)

[tanstalas]

Unvote
Vote: McG

For the contradictory posts about the 2 suspects (that he still hasn't responded to) and also Bean made a good point about being in lylo with him.

At 10 posts he doesn't contribute enough. And at only 10 posts he has been caught back-pedaling. If you take out the fluff posts he has basically back-pedaled in 20% of his posts.

I'd hate to be in lylo with him if it comes to that, though I do not think we will be in lylo with him tomorrow as I am almost positive he and Cliquey are scum at this point, so we will go into tomorrow with 1 scum left and 4 town and even if Cliquey isn't scum on day 4(Which I would be surprised at) we would be down to 3 people with one scum and I am almost certain we will be able to determine who the last scum is at that point.

[tanstalas]

However, McG's posts are no different from his other posts in other games where he has been innocent.

Serious question here Cliquey:
Do you DENY that McG back-pedaled?

[tanstalas]

Oh wait, new ISO

McG-
ISO11-OMGUS, AtE to the max!!!!!!!!!!

How about, defending yourself on the lie we caught you in McG...

You're a something I am not allowed to call you but has to do with a lack of intelligence. I was not lying about anything, but tans noticed beanman getting pushed under a wagon and quickly turned the pressure up on me. Your reasoning for doing, my lack of activity. I am active now so there is no way that could be a scum tell. Your case (both of you) on me is extreeemmeellyy week yet you're both so determined to kill me. Even bean admitted to trying to policy lynch me. Only you 2 think I am a liability to the town if I am alive tomorrow.

And you go on a defensive rant and still do not address the issues we have with you except to misspell extremely to make it look extreme to the maximum potential. Seriously, why not just spell it X-treme?

Way to deflect and AtE.

[tanstalas]

Then you will find out just how moronic one can be. (Not saying any names). I'd be more happy proving you wrong than winning at this point so if you lynch me, I'm cool with it.

Awesome attitude! People accuse you of being scum, you AtE, deflect then AtE some more..

[tanstalas]

I don't think you know what AtE is because I am certainly not doing that paha.

Then you will find out just how moronic one can be. (Not saying any names).

I'd be more happy proving you wrong than winning at this point so if you lynch me, I'm cool with it.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... to_emotion

"An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you lynch me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust."

You.. don't see a connection between what I underlined and the definition of AtE?

And, what is paha?

[tanstalas]

*sigh*

What a group of people

Tux and Pac.. seriously, you should have an idea of who is scum by now... Screw the FoS at this point... we are not going to get past this point without you guys throwing a vote down. Bean and I think McG is scum (well we think both he and Cliq are scum) and Adrien is locked on cliqey..

Both of them are locked on beanman.. I really dont want us to hit a no lynch vote so the scum gets a free kill, so please vote for who you think are scum, but for god's sake explain your reasoning

[tanstalas]

Not a big surprise that the IC and the SE were the first people to die at night, and I agree with Beanman, I do not think they would have taken you out as the scum were probably hoping one of you would throw a vote on the other then it would be a simple speed-lynch and we would lose.

Glad to see neither of you put a vote down.

Welcome Fenhl, looking forward to your thoughts when you are caught up. Unlike Beanman I am too lazy to re-read the entire thread, will probably look at some ISO's after Fenhl gives us his take

[tanstalas]

Uh-oh...

Another German

Hopefully he is better than Dekes was :/

[tanstalas]

Pacman, if I can set up a false dichotomy for you; if there were 2 votes on me and 2 on bean and you were the only member of the town, who would you cast the hammervote on and why?

Tans, I pose you the same question.

Beanman, without a doubt. I am starting to lean towards him for a few reasons, most specifically his rants back on day one where he was sure that dekes and I were a scum team together and then Dekes gets lynched and well, there goes our doctor. I also defended myself against his crazy delusional theories back on D1, and asked him to explain himself in my ISO-38 - He never did, though he did go on a rant on how he "caught" Dekes and I in D1, voted himself (claimed it wasn't AtE).

He has also been spreading suspicion around on everyone that has been in this game, since he can't convince people he is obv-town he is probably trying to make everyone else look just a tad scummier to make him look more pro-town.

FoS: Beanman

[tanstalas]

Vote: Beanman

[tanstalas]

Sucks to win that way, but meh

[tanstalas]

I so thought this was going to be a quick game for the town, being paired up with the squirrelly player at the start

[tanstalas]

Here's the link to the rather short Zombie QT for anyone who's interested.

Active lurking? Me?

I was just sitting back the last two days.. I figured BEanman would hang himself out to dry with Cliquey.. We figured it best to leave Beanman and Cliquey in the game as we thought they would go for each others throats.. then day comes and Bean is like "Cliquey is OBV-Town" and I was like "Oh... shit" Thankfully Cliquey kept on him - I was not expecting Beanman to self-vote though

Our chat was:

http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/fEfzZJeAHxfkJ[url]
[/url] (I hope that it ok if I post, since well, game technically is over
Kind of a boring read, I liked your guys though

[tanstalas]

If I flip a coin 4 times and they all land on heads, what's the odds of me flipping a fifth head? Please note that at the beginning of this set of trials, there was a 1/32 chance of flipping 5 heads.

The odds are 50/50 on flipping a head on your 5th flip, not sure if that is what you meant? The odds of any individual flip is 50/50, the probability if correct though of 1/32 (2^5) of getting 5 heads in a row. The outcome of the previous flips have no bearing whatsoever on the chance of the current flip. Which is what I said in a long ass post when Cliquey first subbed into game that was overlooked by everyone. Must be my special power that Jack suspected I had

Well, I am now officially 1 win and... something else... what stat is it if everyone died in a game and everyone loses?

[tanstalas]

I've had enough of these insults.

McGriddle has been modkilled!
He was a

ghost.

lol