Newbie 985 Game over

[NashiNashi]

/Confirm

Fourth ever Mafia game, second on this site. Looking forward to this!

[NashiNashi]

Alright, proper post. I am busy with school, so I'll try to at least make one analysing post every day during my dinner time. Zachrulez, cheers for the link.

As I am still learning, I will not going to go for random votes at this particular stage. As the ones of you who have paid attention to my last game would know, that game ran unbelievably quickly due to our keenness to lynch, as a result the town didn't fare very well. Right now the votes are spread enough for me to not worry about a premature lynch yet, but still doesn't hurt to play safe.

Kalofer, thanks for the analysis but may I please ask you to also include the person's name as you quote? Just easier for rest of us to follow. 8)

DavidParker, we were in the same game for the last game, and that was the one that we got all triggyhappy with lynching. So I am not surprised that he is weary with quick voting. Then again, we are not in danger of immediate lynch without sufficient discussion yet, so I'm not too concerned beside not going to vote yet.

So talk away, folks. As much I think we should lynch on the first day, I also really think we should use our entire 3 weeks to discuss before coming to the conclusion as to who to lynch.

[NashiNashi]

@Kalofer

I live in Australia, and I am an university student. We do have summer holidays, just not in middle of the winter.

[NashiNashi]

I am indeed interested to see how David's going to play in this round, as my last game with you, you had a distinctively different playstyle. Oh, Hi from other side of Australia 8D

[NashiNashi]

@DavidParker Now I have to ask, how would 100% RVS be anti-town? I operate on the belief on drawing out talk, talk, more talk. Eventually the scums will start to leak. I do think that sticking to 100% RVS is a bad idea, though. Right now we are nowhere near it.

The last game was, well, shall I say I don't know how badly or well it went as far as a game goes as I have few past experience to compare with, but the fact that our town lost was a good indication that at least something was done badly. If anything, IMO the biggest downfall was the speed of lynching, it was bam bam gone. By no means I think we should go for a no-lynch. What I don't want this time is an opportunity for a quick lynch draw to turn into a quick hammer by the scum. Do I think you are wary of it? I think you are less wary than me, as you have a far wider background experience. Having said that, would you not agree that had we, and I mean the players before you, took our time, it would be far less of a speedy disaster?

Regard to quality versus quantity. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Especially in Day 1, I'm leaning toward quantity purely because there are more room for slip ups that way.

[NashiNashi]

Abe27342, I'm going to sit and wait for your better explanation.

[NashiNashi]

What is v/la?

[NashiNashi]

@FakeGod

If you insist.

Vote FakeGod

[NashiNashi]

...Feel free to...?

[NashiNashi]

Alright, FakeGod, let me ask you a few questions.

Why are you rushing us into voting right now, while we still have plenty of time left over before the deadline? Why would not voting right now equals wanting a no lynch? That are some pretty heavy logic fallacies to me.

[NashiNashi]

@Abe27342

Do I "believe" that he is a scum? At this stage, I don't believe anyone are solidly set scum. I do find it bizarre that he is rushing a lynch while we are nowhere near the deadline. This coupled with "if you don't vote now you are a scum"seems like the sort of logic fallacy that could easily be used by a scum to lynch not based on scumminess, but based on the speed of playing style. If we are close to the end of the deadline however, I would consider his actions far more understandable.

His explanation is satisfactory regard to wanting a lynch, however there are still things I find unsatisfactory. And FakeGod, this is where I disagree with you.

A vote is not a solid commitment, people could unvote the moment they changed their mind. On the scale of usefulness, I would consider a thoughtful analysis on talking about scumminess and explaining why a far better move, especially in a newbie game.

[NashiNashi]

I'm getting more a sense of Kalofer being a very naive player rather than a clear scum. If this is a themed Mafia I can understand such a manic suicidal way to play, but in here it does not serve him what so ever.

Kalofer, could you please write a paragraph on all of the players in this game, and let us know what do you think our status are and why is it so?

David, you just have to bring up that GnH game. That one I'm still cringing about. Have a read if anyone are curious. It was just URGH.

[NashiNashi]

Analysis time. This took a wee while.

Kalofer

There’re so much fence sitting, the sort that I would’ve nailed him all over for if it’s not a newbie game. Yet those behaviour are so very consistent to just being new.

My reason for believing that he is more likely to be Town than Scum is that scums tend to be far firmer at grilling and FoSing, as they know for sure who they are accusing is. Yet Kalofer? He is unsure of himself? From the sound of it? How he ends so many of his sentences with questions? Which don’t come across as a good look regard less if he’s a town or a scum? He even asks “where did I screw up”(#195) within the game. I found this far too suicidal for a scum who knows what they are doing. Lots of the accusations are based on the assumption that he has some ideas on what he’s trying to do, while what I’m seeing is someone overwhelmed by a huge learning curve and no one in game is explaining anything to him.

If he was a newbie Scum, he would likely to be coached by the other scum in private to remove the hatch cross on his forehead. As a newbie Town, he’s on his own. He reminded me very much of the townie who was quick hammered in my last game with David, a player called Parkourie.

I still stand in that I read him as a newbie town. If Kalofer turned out to be a scum, then this would be hell of a learning of a game for me.

Verdict: Likely town.


Tvellalott

Wishywashy voter in the beginning (which isn't significant on its own but worth noting). Post #126, regard to voting for David on the basis that he didn’t analyse himself is truly bizarre. In a newbie game, would anyone seriously suggest not self-analysing their role a scummy behaviour? As if any self analysis in this sort of setting would ever be trust worthy to begin with.

I thoroughly enjoyed his analysis on page 11 though.

Verdict: Could be scum, right now I’m unsure.


Abe27342

Solid analysis, I read protown. Not much else to say.

Verdict: Likely town


FakeGod

I still don’t know where he stands, beside that the only thing that stood out to me was his “vote or you are scum” saga. That lead is truly dusted now, and even though I disagree with the logic, I think his explanation is sincere.

I no longer see the need of my vote.

Unvote FakeGod

Verdict: Unknown.


DavidParker (SE)

David is a character. Once I have moved on from the newbie phase, I can foresee some incredibly fun games with him in the future. Having said that, learning with David is a little bit nightmarish because of his play style.
He is very good at initiating discussions, a catalyst of the game. Based on my last game, something I had not commented on was that even though his scum-telling is not 100% accurate, he had made some pretty amazing observations just by reading between the lines. However, in this game he had forgo the arguing with logic and facts, and started with arguing with Magic-8-Ball –not that helpful for the new players. I found this strange and somewhat suspicious, but still I have not played enough with him to know whether it’s a common tactic. Further complicating the matter, I don’t know what his D1 usually goes as he was a replacement.

I get that he stated he doesn’t adhere to a single Meta, but still it’s something that I found worth looking at. And before anyone asks, no it’s not a policy suspicion. I’m more interested in seeing inconsistency in one player, than “all players playing like this should be lynched”.

Verdict: Unsure.


Zachrulez (IC)

I see Zachrulez as the either character right now, however I am quite disappointed at the mentoring from him so far. There are very little explanation for new players, and he is not encouraging discussions or giving out tips as what I think an IC should be. A link to another topic is the best you can do? Really?

Nor that I am convinced with “I’m not giving out standard game theories because no one asked”. (Post 183) This is a NEWBIE game. In order to even ask the right questions people would need some degree of experience. The IC should be taking the initiatives – be the locomotion choo choo, not the safety net.

He just does not come across as someone who is eager to help throwing the rope. Perhaps a scum who sees winning more important than being IC guide? So far both of the SE had done far more at teaching than he has, and Nikanor had stated right in the beginning that he didn’t want to teach. Ridding of the IC so early in the game is a risky move, and we are at the point that we could get hammered. Hence I'm holding onto my vote until later on, even if my FoS is on him.

Verdict: Likely scum.


Zombeh-Pug and Nikanor (SE), my questions are regard to you guys?

Nikanor
Something, intuitively about him, makes me think scum. Yet because I can’t pin point down why, this is conflicting. In the past I have passed pressing a “gut feeling” who later proved to be the winning scum, so this time I’m not going to ignore this.
Nikanor. Why should I vote Zombie-Pug over you?

Zombeh-pug
You are another lurker. Being a lurker myself, this alone is not enough for me to vote, but it does make my attempt of analysing you difficult. So question. Why should I vote Nikanor over you?

[NashiNashi]

Zachrulez, we are aware that you are also a player. No one expected you to tell people what to do, however you don't even bother to give any explanations on anything which makes me wonder about your priority.

It's possible to teach without "babying", and you are not doing it. People would never learn to swim if they don't do it on their own - but your push into the deep end and watch from sideline attitude is also very unhelpful. All it does is force the players to self-adapt by trial and error, and possibly acquire some pretty bad habits along the way.

Take my FOS as a fourth vote, even though I'm not going to do it before you give an explanation to answer all other people's suspicion.

[NashiNashi]

Zachrulez

Can you define "harming a game"? If by that you meant that "your side didn't win", then yes day 1 is far too early for that. Still IMO a newbie game is about guiding and teacher first foremost. On post #12, Nikanor asked you whether you'll going to do an IC intro. You ignored him for 3 posts, then slapped a Wiki and a link in. If that alone is sufficient then why do we need an IC in a game? Anyone can google for those links. You did make some explanations on the first three pages, but after that, it was the SE who did the explaining.

Funny how you mentioned explaining No-Lyching, because that's the one question no one in here needed to ask yet.

Nikanor

I thought this degree of cluelessness is more likely to be a new town, as new scums would have an informed scum buddy who could coach him in private. Posts like #195 would've been asked in private if he's a scum IMO.

Before you ask - yes I think it could be one smart forged naivity. So right now I am on the side of thinking Kelofer's Town, but as the game progresses I may change my mind.

And yes, I get that it's impossible to defend oneself from "gut feelings", nor I expected you to. I do like your explanation though.

Zombie-pug

"Lurking" is the wrong term .What I should've said is "inactive". Either way, it makes you hard to read because of the lacking of volume .

Lurking was indeed the wrong term for it. My apologies.

[NashiNashi]

In my hot little hands I twiddle
A piece of vote I fiddle
I want to mark but not to fumble
what should I write in the line in the middle?

Here, I'm not going to pay attention to YOUR votes but rather, convince me. Don't say "look at what I wrote before". Just convince me.
FakeGod. Should I vote for Zach, Tvellalott or Kalofer? Why should I not vote for you?
Zach. Should I vote for FakeGod, tvellalott or Kalofer? Why should I not vote for you?
Tvellalott. Should I vote for FakeGod, Zach or Kalofer? Why should I not vote for you?
Kalofer. Should I vote for FakeGod, Zach or Tvellalott?Why should I not vote for you?

[NashiNashi]

Nikanor

I am actually not aware of that, as the only other Mafia games I have played was free for all for the Mafia.

In that case, my sureness to Kalefer's town alignment took a good stumble, as that is my biggest reason for believe him to be town so far.

[NashiNashi]

akajring fragogt shit ashfkr.g ;zach scurmq dfi3tnitly.

David. I've read it twelve times and I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

[NashiNashi]

Mind to entertain us with your knowledge that isn't 8 ball related? I'm all ears, but you need to use Earth logic to communicate once in a while too.

[NashiNashi]

And right now I am FoS Tvella at the most, Zach/David second.

[NashiNashi]

I have decided that I'm going to call David and Parker as two different entities now, both of whom are growing increasingly higher on my suspect list.

Having said that, I would like to deal with my two biggies first. Tvella and Zach.

Vote Tvellalott

Even out the votes because right now, I'm still inclined to keep an IC in the game.

[NashiNashi]

Awesome page.

unvote

[NashiNashi]

Nikanor, I'm leaning the same here. I love you David, but Parker scares the living crap out of me.

[NashiNashi]

I can't believe how fast Kalofer turned on me when I tried to defend him.

If you are not using this as a AtE but rather a genuine post - dude, I don't know if Mafia is the game for you.

[NashiNashi]

Nashi, do you even know why I'm voting tvell?

You better have a good explanation for your unvote, because actions like this is exactly why my vote's on tvell right now.

You voted him for what you perceived as inconsistency, of course. Except that most people are inconsistent at least to a degree at the first day of the game, and I am satisfied with the explanation that the whole third person to vote thing don't stand out THAT much.

I unvoted because we still have five days. It's not a LyLo, not even a potential missing the deadline.

So FakeGod, why are you so jumpy about not lynching Tv right now rather than say four days later? Mind to explain that?

[NashiNashi]

Oh, FakeGod. When the time comes I have no qualm at hammering anyone. I have nothing to hide.

[NashiNashi]

Unless we push players to L-1, we're never going to get anywhere. I don't see why you are so afraid to push tvell into L-1.

If it meant that we're trading 4-5 days of discussion for impatient mafia to jump out and hammer away a poor innocent townie and put himself in the spotlight tomorrow, I'd gladly do it.
.

Quite simple. I'd rather wait til I'm a little more convinced. I have stated before, I don't have a clear suspicion at the point of voting or Tvellalott, the only reason I pushed for him was because I thought an IC is more valuable in a game. Hardly a good enough reason for anyone to get lynched when we still have a deadline.

Having said that, the modkill request just did it for me. Felt too much like wanting to rid of people for the sake of ridding of people, and it is such an understandable mistake. A warning should be sufficient IMO. "Impatient", indeed .

Vote DavidParker

Hammer.

[NashiNashi]

Zombie, I was.

Except that I think I've seen enough now with the ModKill saga.

[NashiNashi]

That means you either really really believe that DP tried to get a innocent townie killed via modkill, or you're scum and found a good excuse to finish a inno off 5 days early.

I really really believed that DP tried to get an innocent townie killed via modkill, simple as.

I was proved to be wrong. This modkill saga was the only definitive suspicion as far as this game went.

[NashiNashi]

Just as expected, Zombeh is killed by the mafia and since he suspected me of being scum I am right now probably the most suspected person of being scum since he is dead (this leads to WIFOM but who cares), however this makes me even more certain that Zach is scum and so Zachrulez

How would that make Zachrulez more suspecious?

[NashiNashi]

I don't really fault the hammer itself, Parker deserved that lynch... however, stated philosophy and quick hammering by your definition of the discussion you said you wanted before settling on a lynch is a bit bothering.

Quite simple really, I hammered because I perceived that DavidParker was attempting a backdoor kill. I'd rather lose someone who I, as well as many others thought were a townie, than someone who was one vote away from being lynched.

FakeGod, you are getting increasingly interesting .First you got all jumpy because I didn't cause a lynch, then you get all jumpy because I did. Mind to explain why that is?

[NashiNashi]

Um, aren't you're the one who voted tvell and jumped off real fast, saying something about mafia might quicklynch and we need to use the time we have left?

Then you come in 5 days till deadline and hammer away DP. I think my suspicions are well founded.

Um, did you read the part about no quick lynching

when I'm not sure about who is the Mafia and it was a vote for the sake of vote?

[NashiNashi]

So you voted tvell when you weren't sure who was the mafia and it was a vote for the sake of voting, and that's why you're perfectly excused to just unvote him soon as it seemed like pressure is building on him?

Did you just admit to having randomly voted tvell for no apparent reasons other than for the sake of voting?

And you haven't answered my other point. Why did you come in with 5 days left till deadline and hammer?

1. Obviously. Unless you are one of those people who actually think it's a good idea to explicitedly state that you are pressure voting for pressure voting, which is a terrible way to play. I pressured, and I'm glad I did.

2. I have stated before - ideally yes, I would wait for the final day. Except that the most suspicious person have done what I viewed as attempt to bypass a voted lynch and tried to kill a slightly less suspicious person via another method. In that case waiting with a known imminent likely town kill would be stupid.

And FakeGod, you have posted twice since my question to you, and tried to evade it by asking me questions that I've already answered. Why are you avoiding my question?

[NashiNashi]

Voting randomly isn't the same thing as voting for pressure. If you were voting for pressure, you would've kept your vote on him even when he goes to L-1, so that you could get a claim and etc.

I don't understand "In that case waiting with ........would be stupid." If you could explain it better, that would be great.

Your question? You simply observed that I was getting "jumpy", but I was simply pointing out inconsistencies in your actions (being opposed to lynch vs. quicklynching), and inconsistencies = scum in my mind. I don't know what's there to explain.

I don't care what your stance is, but all I ask is that you stay true to one stance.

You were accusative when I didn't want to lynch someone who I was not convinced of being scummy, and you were accusative when I did lynch someone who I was convinced of being a scum. That's pretty inconsistent too.

[NashiNashi]

Re how I feel about FakeGod. I don't get a strong anti-town vibe from him, a fairly active contributing player who is also driving the game. However I don't get the pro-town read either, as despite of saying a lot, he had never done anything useful. He just appears to be useful. This three scenario comment? Typical of appearing useful but it's really stating the obvious while offers nothing on scum hunting.

Regard to the comment on "Pointing out inconsistencies isn't inconsistent.". It would be a valid point if he was being vigilante about my hammering of David after stating I'd prefer wait for the full day. However, he was more than inconsistent himself, as he tried to call me scummy because I didn't want to put Tv into a lynchable position at post #380, depsite of being fully aware of my position of not wanting an early lynch, a position I changed due to the modkill situation arised at #422.

At least my consistency was caused by an immediate change of situation - the modkill attempt which makes waiting for a lynch no longer seemed like a good idea. FakeGod still hasn't offered why he is inconsistent. Timeline here is important.

So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a scum, even if I'm not completely set on it.

[NashiNashi]

Theory 1

: There was 2 scum in the DP wagon, and no scum outside the wagon. Hence, there are two scum among Nikanor, Zachrulez, Kalofer, Abe27342, NashiNashi.

Theory 2

: There was 0 scum in the DP wagon, and 2 scum outside the wagon. Hence, there are two scum among tvell and Fakegod.

Theory 3

: There was 1 scum in the DP wagon, and 1 scum outside the wagon. Hence, there are one scum among Nikanor, Zachrulez, Kalofer, Abe27342, NashiNashi, and one scum among tvell and FakeGod.

Good people of Newbie 985, which theory do you believe is the most likely?

With your next post, please indicate which theory you believe is most probable.

To answer your question, here is how I see it.

DP and Zombie are confirmed townies. That leaves six players, each with 1/7 chance of being the scum. I'm not going into the "I know I'm not" argument consider the entire point of Mafia is that we can not prove this until the game's revelation, so I won't throw that in for that reason. So:

We know that a townie voted for Zach, and a townie voted for Kelofer. That leaves DP who was a townie who's lynched, and Abe and Tv.

5 people were on the bandwagon, 2 people weren't. I assigned "1" as the whole of the Mafia, meaning each mafia member has a 1/2 position of being a Mafia while a townie is a 0.

SO. ((Individual probability x number of people in Bandwagon x (Person 1 being Mafia prob+ Person 2 being Mafia prob )) + ((Individual probability x number of people outside of bandwagon x (Person 1 being Mafia prob+ Person 2 being Mafia prob ))

Theory 1 - 1/7x5x (1/2+1/2) + 1/7 x 2 x (0+0) = 5/7
Theory 2 - 1/7x5x(1/2 + 0) + 1/7 x 2 x (1/2 + 0) = 3.5/7
Theory 3 - 1/7x 5x(0+0) + 1/7 x 2x(1/2 + 1/2) = 2/7

So in the order of likelihood, it's Theory 1 > theory 2 > theory 3. However it still doesn't do anything regard to telling us WHO is it that is the Mafia when it comes to the individual level.

I am intrigued with the Nik and Abe theory though. Mind to tell more beside the lurking?

[NashiNashi]

Because I'm not allowed to edit, @mod please fix my last post, my code's showing. Also, you have listed DP as a living player in post 1, he isn't.

Cheers

[NashiNashi]

FakeGod, wasn't my last post clear enough? Clearly I think theory 1 is more likely than theory 2, which in turn is more likely than theory 3.

[NashiNashi]

I am more inclined to put a vote on Nikanor due to the lurking, though I can't agree more with that non of the maths means much beside "out of 7 people there are 2 scums". But hey, I was asked a useless questions, so an useless answer is might as well.

Vote Nikanor

[NashiNashi]

Let me just say that after D2, I would be defaecating myself if Fakegod turned out to be a scum.

[NashiNashi]

There are 5 people left now, one of which is a scum. Up until D2 I thought FakeGod was a more likely candidate due to the reasons I mentioned, as well as the peculiar tendency of asking people to not lynch the most scummy person under the reason of "we'd get more information if we lynch someone less scummy". Yet FakeGod also have led the lynching of Nik. It is still possible that he is the scum who have gained a good deal of credibility by doing this, but right now I'm really leaning town on him. The only other strange thing is that being THIS active, I found it strange that the mafia killed Zach over FakeGod last night. You'd think FakeGod is the biggest scum threat right now.

Right now my top FOS is Tv. I have read town in the first two days thinking lots of his behavioru was based on being new at Mafia, a bit like Kalefor or myself. Yet out of all three of us who played pretty badly, he's the only one who self-confessed to be a more regular player. So in that case, I wonder how much of the over the top hissy fits were for show.

[NashiNashi]

@Tv So I'll take that you have missed when I voted for you a few days ago, and the only reason I took the vote away was because at the time I thought the emotions were genuine.

You have now admitted that was a lie all along, which have killed the only pro-town reading I had on you. Now my choice is easy.

Vote Tvellalot

[NashiNashi]

@Tvellalott

I did read the whole thing, actually. No, I'm not convinced. Do you seriously think that claiming you want the town to win is going to be sufficient to prove that you are town?

And I have to laugh at the comment about how I only FOS you now. I'll take you purposely ignored a good chunk of my last post. Nice try but, no.

[NashiNashi]

Tvellalot, two things. The garden path you've been replying to me is such a diverter, I can't even be bothered to repeat myself now. I'm just going to say this though, when people suggest not doing the most pro-town move "because it's BOOOOOOOOOOOORINNNNNNG", scum tell. I'm not changing my vote.

On that topic, are we doing a mass claim or not? I say go for it, as it is the most pro-town move right now IMO as long as no towns lie about their role. (Townies, please don't lie at this stage). At this stage we have two Town power roles, if the Mafia fakeclaims one of those, after one maximal mislynch we'd get the reminder Mafia. The more likely move for the Mafia is to claim a vanilla, in which we would have two true vanilla claims and one Mafia claim. We would end up with a maximum of two mislynch, and I mean MAXIMUM. That is assuming the worst case scenario for town in which the cop gets done for before being able to release any information on investigations.

So, I'm 100% for a mass claim.

@ Kalofer I am not convinced with your argument. Based on past experience, lurking is usually a more likely scum move (or, a PR) even if it's not completely fool proof. Simple really - people who have more responsibilities are less likely to stick their heads out.

"Gut feeling" is like the worst explanation EVER, something I would personally not use as a persuasive argument, however it is also not something to be completely dismissed. In both of the Mafiascums I've played, it was my gut intuition that pointed to the scum, not any in detail analysis. Which sadly said a lot about my playing ability.

Which brings in the last point, about FakeGod's latching onto one person. Being someone else with a serious tunnel vision playing problem, I think it says more about a person's playing ability than their status. I do think FakeGod is a far more skilled player than I am, having said that I can still see the mistakes I make and it's plausible that it is also done by people who are much better at the game.

[NashiNashi]

I have to thank you for introducing me to epicmafia, Tvellott. Now I've played a few games there, I'm even less convinced. The games there are nothing like the games here. Nothing.

Bloody fun though.

[NashiNashi]

Wow, did I make a dick out of myself right there or what. Serves me right for running off to Melbourne for a weekend.

This isn't working. So far Tvellalott, FakeGod, AND Kalofer have claimed VT. Abe is assumed VT. There are only 2 VT left in this game.

What's even worse is this - I also claim VT.

[NashiNashi]

Fascinating. To hammer, or not to hammer. Unlike the scum, at this stage I'm not too worried about dying as there are plenty of people on my side. Having said that, if it's a mislynch, tonight we'll lose a townie and I will die tomorrow for sure. That would endanger the town quite a bit.

Hmmm.

[NashiNashi]

I'm going to stick to my suspecion. Kalofer's getting more and more scummy, but still comes across as an unskilled player - less scummy than tvellalott IMO.

I don't think we can afford a mislynch right now, as if we get a townie, I'm pretty sure the unskilled, scummy town players like myself will live through, who will get lynched tomorrow and that's that.

[NashiNashi]

I admitted myself being an unskilled player. Again tvellalott, nice try but no cookie.

[NashiNashi]

@Kalofer Pity that in order for that to work you shouldn't have told anyone that you are requesting modkill to get hammered.

I have stated my reason why I don't want to vote for Kalofer. Tvellalott, what's your reason?

[NashiNashi]

Same to you, David.8D As for Tv - I KNEW IT! Can't agree more with Abe about the gut tells. It is so easy to over think in games like this, especially for a newbie game where inexperience and scumminess are frequently present in the same way. Tv was inconsistent as hell, but somehow people just wasn't picking it up at all. Not saying that I did a superb job at articulating it, though.

[NashiNashi]

Great job Tvellalott by the way. I know I gave you bucket loads of flake through out it, but you are one hell of a good player and you worked for the win. Congrats!

Also goes to FakeGod, who I think did an incredible job. So much so that I'm amazed he lived that long. 8D

[NashiNashi]

Indeed Zach, that risk from the scums were hell of a risk, something that I didn't not think anything would dare to take. Something that turned out to be what aided them to win.

Thank you Tv for explaining why you kept FakeGod alive. That's one element I flat out couldn't figure out, well played. I'm surprised that EM served you well though. Tried to play there and I was beyond disappointed at that place.

I think another good thing to learn from this is that non-activity can be a tell, but it is never anything definitive. When I play Mafia I am on the quieter side of thing, regardless which side I'm on. Remember that regardless what we we are assigned on, real life commitment do not change. I know people lie their heads off regard to this, but again, not the most accurate one-for-all scum tell.

Lastly David Parker, may I ask why did you played the way you did this time around? For the last game you were quite onto lynching me too as I appeared scummy to you. In reality I was way too unstable to remove my head from the toilet bowl to post.

[NashiNashi]

Zachrulez, comment please. ;D

[NashiNashi]

Is Kalofer going to come back out again? I wonder what he would be like as a scum player, because so far he came across as one of the most serious and honest player I have seen. It helps greatly with his townie read when playing as a townie - a significant contrast with my lolwhatever attitude. Not sure if it's a good or bad thing, I can't get worked up emotionally in a Mafia game even if I tried.

Kalofer, no need to hang your head in shame. If anyone played a crap game it goes to the scummiest townie ever walked. I'm happy to take that title for this game. 8D

[NashiNashi]

Make sense, David. Pity that during a game it's hard to believe anything anyone says!

[NashiNashi]

This David being convinced that I am scum and I'm convinced David was scum solely based on a change of our playstyles is another good lesson - every game is a new game.

[NashiNashi]

Abe, believe it or not it was ranked game that did it for me. It was so bad I felt rotten for winning, like I was beating up children. And I'm not even a skilled player. I think it must be one particularly off day on EM.

I think Tv's bussing has to go as one of the most epic things I've ever seen. Just WOW.

[NashiNashi]

Completely a tangent,but I think this may also explain why "gut feeling" works for me. "http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3013 ... th_Jam.php"

The down side is, try to convince anyone with that.