Newbie 958 ~Game over!

[Coach Travis]

/confirm

[Coach Travis]

Vote:LordChronos

Totally random.

[Coach Travis]

@brianj

I've seen games where someone made an obvious mistake in random voting(maybe bandwagonning, or just saying something really suspicious), and it led to them becoming the top suspect right from the start. it doesn't happen often, but it's possible.

Either way, I do think RQS is more useful, because you can use the answers people give against them if you find out they aren't completely accurate, while RVS is just fun.

[Coach Travis]

Because I do think both can be useful in their own way, and just think RQS is maybe slightly more useful, but not much more. So since this game was clearly starting on an RVS, I just went along with it, though I'll admit;Because I'm relatively inexperienced, I still don't really understand how to use either very effectively.

[Coach Travis]

I'm not sure yet if I find Remouk scummy:On the one hand, he is being an active lurker(meaning your posting but not really adding much0, but I can also see how it takes some people a while to really pick up reads. I'm having the same problem. So for now I will look out for Remouk, and he's probably the most suspicious to me right now, but it's only a minor thing at this point.

Though I've never liked bandwagons in the RVS stage, so I'm also a bit suspicious of Incognito for even suggesting such a thing at this point.

[Coach Travis]

@Incognito

You're vote seemed random, and you specifically said it was good to start a bandwagon. However, considering we're still in RVS with little actual evidence, to suggest putting multiple votes on one player, which could potentially put them in danger, just comes across as scummy. Also, if you have an actual reason to vote him but never give that reason, that just makes it worse.

@Earlder

At this point, I have one strong positive read, and one somewhat negative read:ThatTumblweed is doing a good job of trying to focus us during the early stage(calling out an off-topic post), and has somewhat of a case already. This shows he's willing to scum hunt, which is a good thing for the town.

And because of what I mentioned above, and just an overall bad feeling of him that I can't otherwise explain right now, Incognito currently gets a scum read.

At the moment I'm leaning towards town for you, though that's a bit less certain than the other two, and I'd say right now ThatTumblweed has my clearest read. Everyone else I'm still not really sure about yet.

[Coach Travis]

I'm still undecided about Remouk. I find with active lurkers it's best to wait a little while to see if they will ever contribute anything. And it is still early in the game. I definitely find him suspicious, but I'll give him a chance for now. Same with Earlder 1, because I know in my first game I was also overly worried about my appearance, because I got an early vote on me(a serious one), so that made me scared. And I was town. So again, it is somewhat suspicious, but doesn't guarantee he's scum. I will be watching for both of them though.

After Incognito's latest post I can understand what he's saying. I prefer an explanation along with a vote, but now that he's explained himself I can understand that he sees things differently. He currently gets a null read.

And I did give my thoughts on ThatTumblweed in my previous post.

[Coach Travis]

The problem with such a strategy is that even if it makes you less likely to be NK'd, it makes you more likely to be lynched, which is worse, because if you're a townie who gets lynched, it means you failed your team by not convincing them of your innocence, and in this case, by deliberately not acting townish. Personally, I'd prefer to be NK'd, because in that case you're obviously doing something right, or else the mafia wouldn't be targeting you.

I'm finding Earlder 1 suspicious right now, but I'll at least wait for his analysis. Alta and Remouk need to add something soon:They're completely null right now. I'm feeling better about Incognito the more I see from him, and I'm mostly liking LC(his post on Earlder 1 was good, his case on Alta is a bit of a stretch). He is clearly trying to help though, so that's good. Everyone else, I still need more time to analyze.

[Coach Travis]

I'd help more, but the problem is I can't do anything in a non-active game, because I'm more reactionary than aggressive, it's just how I always am, even in real life.

It's nice to see Remouk finally post, but his vote on Incognito is indeed weak, considering a lot of it was based on something I originally found suspicious, then realized was just a different strategy which I'd never known of, but seems to be valid, and this has since been pretty much confirmed by another experienced player(LC). By no means am I giving Incognito a free pass, but he seems town to me right now, while Remouk is still suspicious, because after all that time his only content was responding to something that had already been dealt with.

Also don't like Alta's somewhat contradicting himself. So those two and Earlder 1 still seem most suspicious to me, meaning nothing has changed at all, and I still haven't seen enough from anyone I haven't mentioned at some point this game.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, I have no reason to keep that random vote, and there's no reason for me to be overly soft like in my first game.

Anyway, I didn't want to vote Earlder 1 because doing so would put him in L-1, and I think it's too early to do that. Remouk has a vote, and Alta doesn't, so because he hasn't done much and I don't like how he's saying he suspects Remouk even when earlier he didn't, with no reason to really become suspicious of Remouk during that time(this happened before Remouk's weak vote)

Vote:Alta

I doubt this will be my final one of the day, but I do need to see more from Alta, and he is one of my three suspects right now.

[Coach Travis]

@Incognito:It still wasn't much of an explanation, since he wasn't that suspicious of Remouk at first, then only became a bit more suspicious after a couple more posts, didn't post for a while, and all of a sudden he returns to say Remouk is his only suspect. Either way, he clearly hasn't been putting much effort into this game so far, and that alone is suspicious, because even though this has been a slow game, Alta's been one of the least active here.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, so now that Earlder1 has delivered his big post, I feel a bit better about leaving my vote off of him, as he actually made an effort to help in that post. I pretty much agree with him about Incognito, Tumblweed, Leech and Remouk.

Though so far I'm getting a townie vibe from LC, as he has been trying to help at points, and hasn't done anything terribly suspicious so far. I know he's experienced and all so the same thing applies to him as to Incognito, but so far I do get a townie vibe from both of them.

I actually haven't noticed much about Brianj either way:He has been posting at a decent pace, but I haven't found much on him to make me feel strongly about him, so I'll definitely go and read back through his posts, to see if I can get a clue as to what Earlder 1 is seeing in him, because at first glance he seems unremarkable.

And I'm still somewhat suspicious of Earlder1 due to his early play, but I'd say his most recent post puts him behind Remouk on my suspect list.

So far my listing would be this:

1.Alta
2.Remouk
3.Earlder 1
4.Leech(not overly suspicious, just really needs to do something)
5.Brianj
6Incog
7.LC
8.Tumblweed

[Coach Travis]

@LC:I have mentioned scummy things as well. For example, my whole case on Alta wasn't really about lack of activity, as it was that he was saying he wasn't all that suspicious of Remouk, yet that was his only suspect, so it's like, did he even bother to look into any other players, or was he just dead set on voting that one person? Obviously, not being willing to investigate everyone is a big problem for the town. And I've also talked about Earlder1' excuse for being a bit scummy. But yeah, I'll admit I'm still not the greatest when it comes to spotting scum activity. I am trying though.

But now that Alta's been replaced, things become more complicated. The vote will stay for now, but I'll really be paying attention to Shadow Dancer for the next while, to see if he does any better.

Nice to see an analysis from both brianj and ThatTumblweed. brianj's was nice and detailed, and gave some good information, generally seemed like he was scum hunting. So I feel a bit of a town vibe after that one. And well, I've always had a town vibe from Tumblweed, and nothing has changed there so far.

[Coach Travis]

@Incog:Yeah, I definitely get what you're saying about Leech:For all my work targeting unhelpful players, I never really got around to him, it's like he's been so inactive I sometimes completely forget about him. He seems the same to me as Remouk:Hasn't really done anything particularly helpful, and has been epically lurking, though he hasn't necessarily done anything scummy like Alta did. I'm still not sure about him, due to the lack of posts, though by default lurking is anti-town I think, so he seems a more likely scum than townie right now.

[Coach Travis]

@Shadow Dancer:Yeah, that was probably the only stupid thing I've done so far. I think what happened is I figured that since there were already some random votes when I went to do my first post, I'd just go along with it. And as I've said, I don't feel comfortable really initiating anything, and I still don't fully understand how to effectively use RQS(I more just think it sounds useful in theory, but don't really know how to apply it, which questions to ask, etc.)so when you take that and the fact that I find RVS entertaining and don't exactly find it useless, well I guess that's about as much of an explanation as I have.

[Coach Travis]

@LC:Because just in general I'm not used to initiating anything(in real life I'm the quiet guy who's just kinda there, and rarely says a word, except to people I know well), so it's like I wouldn't even know what to say get anything going, so I prefer to just sit back and then comment on things I see. I find I'm more helpful reacting, because if I try to initiate anything, I'm more likely to make a mistake than to do anything helpful, due to my lack of experience doing such a thing. Basically to sum it up:I've spent so much time being a certain way, I don't think I could just suddenly change it.

On topic, I definitely think Shadow Dancer is doing a much better job than Alta, and he doesn't seem nearly as scummy so far.

[Coach Travis]

it's a tricky situation though, because obviously I was very suspicious of Alta, but it's not impossible that his bad play could be ruled out by inexperience, and just him being bad at the game, because I'm pretty sure he is a newbie. I can see it being hard for Shadow Dancer to have to come in and replace someone who was as bad as Alta, and had immediate suspicion(not to mention, 2 votes) on him just because the original player was doing that bad. So far, I'd say Shadow Dancer is doing a good job, and there's no way I'd be voting him if he wasn't replacing Alta. In fact, I think I'm ready to

Unvote

, because ever since joining the game he's done nothing suspicious, and he's been helpful.

[Coach Travis]

Well, I'm still a bit unsure of Remouk, because I can't decide if he's really all that suspicious, or it it's just that he hasn't done much of anything aside from that weak vote. Same with Leech, really. Everyone else has mostly been trying to help, and with players like that unless they do something clearly scummy, it's kinda hard to pick one to vote early on, because they kinda deserve a chance to prove their innocence.

With that being said, out of the active players, Earlder 1 does still seem the most suspicious, due to his whole attitude, and plan of deliberately not wanting to appear town, because that really doesn't help anyone except the mafia, because it makes him an easier lynch target, if he is in fact town. He has been doing better lately, but if I had to pick someone to vote out of the actual contributing players, it would be him, since I'm finding no reason to vote any of the others.

[Coach Travis]

@Shadow Dancer:No, I don't think he's town, and it wouldn't be a policy lynch. The point is, he's clearly doing stuff that doesn't benefit the town, and sense he does have a bit of experience, I think he'd know better than to do that, so it makes me think he's scum. Because it's either that or he's a bad player, and from what he said about his first game, I don't think that's true.

[Coach Travis]

I already answered that in my last sentence:No, I don't think he is. I think he can be good(as shown by getting NK'd previously), and is trying to come off as neutral, to avoid getting caught at this point, because I think he's scum. I just don't see any other way to explain trying to not act town to avoid being NK'd, because being NK'd is not a bad thing at all.

[Coach Travis]

I don't know, I've just always been slow to vote outside of RVS, like I'm afraid it could cause some bandwagon and backfire on me or something. I'm kinda paranoid like that. But yeah, since I am suspicious of him and he's no longer at the stage where voting him causes an L-1, I have no real excuse, so:

Vote:Earlder 1

I think he's probably the most likely day 1 lynch, but I'm not against voting anyone else if it comes down to it.

[Coach Travis]

@Shadow Dancer:I didn't mean I'd vote with no reason. I meant if something else came up where I found someone else scummy, I'd be willing to switch my vote, and get that person out, but only if they seemed scummier than Earlder1. Basically, I'm expecting us to lynch Earl, but my vote isn't set in stone, is what I was saying.

And yeah, I never read through his other game, but from what he was saying I gathered that he had played very well, so that's what made me suspicious of him here, because he hasn't come across as an experienced player, good enough to be the first target of an NK, and so since we know he can do well as town, a total change in style like this means he could be scum.

[Coach Travis]

@Incognito:I think what I was referring to there, was because I knew my vote would be putting someone close to lynch(because Earl was the only one I had good reasons to vote for), I would feel bad if we got two immediate votes afterward to hammer him before I had a chance to unvote, and he turns up town, Of course, I realize that wouldn't happen anyway because scum wouldn't be that obvious, but I don't know, I just worry a lot. Basically, it was just one of those times where I typed something without really thinking it through, and I'm mostly just cautious, but realize I need to get over that if I want to help the town catch scum.

[Coach Travis]

Earl's latest post actually reminds me of what I was like in L-1 in my first game:Regretful of how he played, doesn't have anything to claim, gives one last analysis, and doesn't really try to get out of it. Interesting, because I was town when I did this same thing, though I'm hoping he's just trying to make us feel guilty for lynching him, and he does turn up scum. Either way, we need a day 1 lynch, and even if he's town we at least learn something, and the list of potential scum gets narrowed down a bit.

[Coach Travis]

I don't see how you could become more suspicious of Shadow Dancer just for making a big post to show why he feels Remouk's case was unfounded, and completely lazy. I read through what Remouk said, and didn't find anything that wasn't a stretch, and I agree with SD that he just seems to be lazy and not really putting much effort into his cases. He's my number 2 suspect right now, but at this point I think lynching Earl is still our best option. I'll be waiting for DTMaster's big post though, to see what he thinks, since he's replacing into a role I read as town.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, I need to take another look at those posts as well, see if I missed something. Either way, I think a huge information overload like that from a townie, may be reason enough, because it shows he was clearly putting in a lot of effort to catch them. That, and because of Tumblweed, I think people generally considered him town, so lynching him would have been highly unlikely. But I will go back and read his posts more thoroughly now. Sucks that we lost him so soon.

On the Remouk/Shadow Dancer thing, I'm not quite sure what to think now, because I agree with SD about Remouk being a bad player, and SD is clearly a good player, but bad playing isn't a guaranteed scum tell, and a good player can just be really good at being scummy, so I'll look into him as well, see if I find anything suspicious.

[Coach Travis]

Reading through the Remouk/Shadow Dancer exchange, I think it's possible they're both townies who are just getting badly sidetracked, as SD has made some good points, but while I haven't liked Remouk's responses, I feel he could as easily be confused townie as scum, and I have a gut feeling he's town, and just isn't very good at this game. SD I still think is town as well, but will be looking at closely. The problem is, he could in fact be a skilled scum, but right now I read him as town.

LC I'm really not sure of. I did kinda think he was town early on, but he really hasn't done that much and I can certainly understand the case on him. I think my most suspicious right now are him and smashbro, just because they're the two I'm less certain of.

Incognito I do still read as town, as he explained the one thing I found suspicious about him, and he's been doing well the entire game. He could be skilled scum as well(especially with the stats mentioned earlier), but I don't see him as scum at the moment. I've never suspected brian j either, and I'm definitely getting a townie vibe from him.

If I were to vote now it would likely be for LC, but I'm not really all that convinced, as I said, it's more that he's a player I'm less certain of, because he really hasn't done all that much.

As for my actions:I just don't think I'm a natural scum hunter, it's not my style. I have pretty much zero aggression in me, and it takes me a long time to come to conclusions on other players alignments. I did think Earlder 1 was the most suspicious, and I did say that in previous posts. I was just hesitant to vote before and so that post was me finally deciding not to worry about what could go wrong and just taking action for once.

[Coach Travis]

Man, in case I wasn't already a bit conflicted, this happens. I was never quite sure about LC, so for him to be replaced right now only makes things more complicated. At least with Remouk I was finally getting a read from his last few posts, but now with Equinox the process of reading LC has to be restarted. So yeah, I'll definitely be paying special attention to Equinox, and try to get a read on him as quickly as possible, and maybe get an idea of who the scum are.

[Coach Travis]

Because the whole nature of scumhunting requires you to focus in on someone and attack their posts, breaking down why you think they're scum and pretty much just just trying to tear them apart, which really is kinda mean-spirited. I'm just not aggressive in general, so I find that tough to do. But I do get the importance of it, because without people doing that, it makes it harder to find the scum, and the scum can just relax and control the game. I'm just one of those guys who prefers to examine the posts of the scumhunters, decide if I agree, and then either vote along with them, or explain why I disagree.

I agree about brianj. In fact, my big problem is I'm getting a lot of town reads right now, and no strong scum reads(only possible scum read I was getting was from LC). I'm kinda stuck at the moment.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, I can see how my play style is anti town in nature. Thing is, I don't find anyone overly scummy, but if I had to vote it would be Equinox based on LC being the one player I wasn't really sure of either way, so if taking a stance on anything can help prove my innocence in the long run, I may as well

Vote;Equinox

, because if I had to choose one person to lynch right now, it would be him. I'll still watch out for everyone though. And it's not like I've never taken stances:If anything I lack confidence, so even when I sorta feel a scummy vibe, I have a hard time expressing it, because I'm worried it won't work out.

[Coach Travis]

@brianj:I don't agree with your case on SD at all. The thing is, his points on Remouk were all correct, and Remouk really seemed as lazy as SD was making out to be. The only thing I disagreed with him about is that I saw Remouk as newbie town. So I don't see how a big argument with him over his sloppy play is scummy, unless the two of them are in fact a scum team, which is possible, but I personally don't believe it. Either way, I find it more likely that they're either both town or both scum, than one being the other, just the vibe I get from reading through their posts on each other.

[Coach Travis]

Ouch, I think that brings me down to L-1 now. Aside from the vote being on me, I really don't like SD's vote at all, as he doesn't really say anything scummy I did, and instead just says voting me is his best option because of how I played early, even though he likes what I've done lately. Really confusing, and it actually comes off as scummy, because looking from a scum perspective, he could see I was at L-2, and am the easiest the easiest townie to get lynched right now. So his lack of reasoning really is suspicious here, and makes me reconsider what I said earlier. Wouldn't be the first time I made a bad read.

Anyway, one thing I don't get is how I'd benefit from DTM completing his analysis, since he seemed to pretty much know exactly what he thought of me, which was that I was townie but wasn't playing well at all. Why would I not want him to complete his analysis, considering even while attacking my playstyle, he still thought I was town? Anyway, SD was someone he suspected, which makes me confident in my decision to

Vote:Shadow Dancer

I hate OMGUS voting, but this is the first time in a while I've had a scum read, and obviously I have to do whatever it takes to keep myself in the game, so the town doesn't fall further behind.

[Coach Travis]

If you're going to meta me, you should know I did so bad as town as to get myself lynched day 1, which is obviously a pathetic effort. Plus, the lack of scumhunting was as big a problem as ever:Basically everyone called me out on it, and I think I did it maybe twice the entire day. And if I have become even more cautious, it's because of the disaster late in that day where I finally made a vote, and everyone found how I did it suspicious, which ended up playing a part in my lynch. I sure don't want that happening again.

[Coach Travis]

After reading through some recent posts for awhile, it's time to return to something Equinox rightfully accused me of not doing. Truth is, I wasn't getting strong enough vibes early in this game, as I require time and a lot of posts from everyone before I can really get a good read. So without further ado, here's the one useful thing I can carry over from my first game:

brianj:

I've never been suspicious of him from the start of the game.At first, he seemed to be blending in, but he quoickly became one of our more helpful players, doing scum hunting and making very good analysis. Nothing he's done has seemed scummy, and he's done plenty that's come across as townish. Basically, it'll take a huge turnaround before I'd vote him.

Town Read

Incognito

:Apparently others shared my initial feelings about his methods, but I won't judge him for that, because I said I understood it then and I still do. However, while he has been helpful at points, I can kinda understand what everyone else is saying about him just trying to sneak through. I'm not getting a huge scummy vibe, but I agree he could be a good lynch candidate for day 3.

Null Read/leaning Town

Shadow Dancer

:I already shared some thoughts on him. I was suspicious of Alta, and while SD started off well, and I could understand his attacks on Remouk, his recent play has been confusing to say the least, and since the vote came out of nowhere and I know my role, I have no choice but to think he saw me as an easy target at the time.

Scum Read

Smashbro

:To be honest, I haven't really seen that much from, and I wasn't even sure about the original role either. Nothing overly scummy, but I really have no clue at this point. Probably worth looking into soon.

Null Read

Equinox

:Well, my thoughts on LC are known, but I'm actually liking Equinox, even if I disagree with his reads from metagaming(I was totally useless that game, why else would I be the first lynch as town?), I find he's been a helpful scum-hunter, I can see where he's coming from with his case on Incognito.

Town Read

Zachrulez

:Obviously, I need to see more from him, but judging by his original role, Remouk, he seems townish, because while Remouk was unhelpful, almost everything he did just screamed newb, and I understand we could have a newb scum, but that wasn't the read I got from him.

Town Read

In conclusion, I still want to lynch SD today as I find him to currently be the scummiest, but I would also like to look into Incognito and Smashbro as we go along. brianj is currently my strongest town read, then I'd say Zachrulez, and finally Equinox, but it'll take a big mistake for me to vote either of them.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, I definitely don't see Equinox going today. I'm still the most likely lynch aside from SD. Though I agree that because of the extended deadline, we should at least give SD some time to claim, no need to rush and get a mislynch.

@Incognito:I flip-flop a lot in general, pretty sure it happened a few times in my first game as well. It's because I often make a bad first read, and need something big to happen to make me re-think my initial read. I do think SD is scum right now, and there are currently two others that I think could be scum. I've never been good at speculating as to who scum partners are, and would prefer to wait until we catch a scum before actually getting into that, since it doesn't matter who scum #2 is until we catch scum #1.

[Coach Travis]

He's certainly my top suspect and I do believe he's scum, but that doesn't mean we need to rush to hammer before he has a chance to claim. Of course, with how hesitant people in this game have been so far, that comment does seem unnecessary, but still, no reason not to take advantage of the extra time, so we're as sure as we can be.

[Coach Travis]

Oh wow! Wake up to see SD claiming as cop, now that sure makes things complicated. My first reaction is to not trust him, but his explanation does make perfect sense, and if he is the cop I could see why he'd be so hesitant to reveal himself, because you never want a PR to be discovered this early.

Problem is, if I do trust him, my scum read is gone. For now, I need to think about this, as I don't want us to lose our cop, but I;m really not sure who else to vote, or if there's even enough time to change things. For now,

unvote

, just to prevent a hammer, but I'll make a vote before deadline, probably tonight.

[Coach Travis]

Hmmm, this makes things even more interesting. Do I believe the original claim, the counterclaim, or neither? At least in this case, brianj is someone who to this point has never done anything I've found scummy, and he has been consistently after SD, so his claim does make sense as well. I think because of the situation, I'd prefer to trust brianj,and lynch SD, because I find him more suspicious than brianj, and if SD turns up town we at least have a good lead for day 3.

Vote Shadow Dancer

[Coach Travis]

At least now if SD is in fact as he claims, we have a guaranteed scum lynch day 3, so I'd say our odds are looking good right now:No matter what happens, we catch scum today or tomorrow.

[Coach Travis]

I don't see how I could be suspected as SD's partner. Sure, I did think of him as town most of the day, but once I got a scum read on him I put a vote on him when there was only one other, helped get him to L-1, and only backed out later to give myself time to think, then I ended up voting him again anyway. I just don't think a scum would be that willing to sacrifice their partner.

Also, by process of elimination(I have a town read on Equinox, Incog's unvoting of me to help lynch SD seems definitely townish, and I haven't suspected Zachrulez's slot in a long time) I feel my best course of action is to

Vote:Nobody Special

, as I've never had a read on him, and everyone else currently seems townish.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, same here. I'm Canadian so my holiday was Thursday, and I've just been waiting through the American holiday for this to pick up again.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, as much as I've liked Equinox, I didn't like LC much at all, and even with the fake cop claim SD was defending Equinox, claiming he investigated her as town, so going just by interactions I could see Equinox being his scumbuddy. I'm still suspicious of Nobody Special though, and won't do anything major until we hear from him.

Even Zachrulez can't be ruled out yet, because his defense of SD when he was clearly faking(I find it hard to believe anyone could trust him over branj at that point), was definitely suspicious, and the whole thing with Remouk could have just been distancing, and my original read was that they were either both scum or town.

Right now Incognito is the only one I'm very certain is town, as none of his play has ever been overly suspicious, I can't see a connection to SD, and he's been very helpful throughout. Right now, I'll just go with my gut feeling, which is that Nobody Special is scum, but I'm not certain of Zachrulez, and Equinox does indeed have to big a connection to SD to just ignore.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah you're probably right about the Remouk thing:I really just get concerned that scum may be running strange gambits, but that was indeed a bit too heated to be fake. And obviously, in a case like this you know more about what you're talking about than me, since you have experience playing as scum, so judging by my current read on you, you're probably right about Zach. And I really never have gotten a scum vibe from Equinox anyway, and I just realized why my previous comment on her was flat out stupid: We didn't know the real cop at the time, so there was a possibility they could have investigated Equinox as scum, which would have proven SD as fake, so I doubt a scum would do something that risky. Which means, I'm as confident as ever about Nobody Special.

[Coach Travis]

Well that vote is kinda weak, because you're doing the same thing you accused me of:Saying you only have one scum read and everyone else seems town. Hypocrite! Plus, you had the a similar reason for voting me and that you no other suspects, and which is I voted you:If there's one scum left in the game, one person I'm not sure of,and everyone else is clearly getting a town read, that leaves me with one conclusion:The person I'm not sure of must be scum. So yeah, the lack of any defense and this weak vote makes me even more confident than ever that Nobody Special is scum.

And the second of your examples for "distancing" is just sloppy play from me, because I tend to flip-flop around very often, which means I'm really just not the best mafia player around. Still, I said I found him suspicious and needed time to think about it, and obviously if I was his partner I wouldn't have come back and voted him again so quickly. I simply realized I was too quick to let SD off the hook, trusted brianj over him, and was correct in doing so. Also:Do you really think the mafia would put each other into L-1 situations back and forth like that, and not offer up any good cases against anyone else, ornot even try to make a townie seem scum? That would be one stupid mafia.

[Coach Travis]

Definitely still not liking Nobody Special. His sudden switch to Incog really makes no since to mew(even he claimed he was after him before), to just pull a 180 like that doesn't seem townish to me at all, especially since I see no way of Incog being scum at this point(I see more reason to suspect myself than him). It's like he realized a case against one townie wasn't working, so he needed to change it up.

[Coach Travis]

I know I'm not Incog, but it's obvious why we have no doc:After SD was proven as scum, brianj's claim was confirmed, and obviously the mafia wants the cop out of there the instant he reveals himself, because they wouldn't want to risk getting found out by an investigation. So that meant if there was a doc they would have known he'd be the target of the NK, and they would have prevented it. Obviously, the NK went through. Therefore, we don't have a doc.

Also, while I didn't like Zach's defending of SD, it did seem like it would be too blatant if they were in fact partners, and that argument with Remouk went pretty far for something planned out. So while I don't know enough about Zach to know how he plays, I don't think he's scum.

[Coach Travis]

Whoops, realized my mistake in that last post:Forgot there could be an RB. Still, if we're goig to speculate on setup, I'd say it's less likely there is an RB or doc, because if there was I actually think the most logical move from the mafia would have been to block the cop, because the doc would probably be protecting him anyway, and so they would have a free shot on anyone else, giving them a shot at getting the doc, where with what happened, I think it would be tough to just randomly chance upon finding the doc ad blocking them, so they can get off the kill on the cop. Just how I see it. So either way, I doubt there's a doc.

[Coach Travis]

Mostly I just feel you haven't contributed all that much to the game, and haven't really stood out. Obviously, mafia doesn't want to stand out, because they don't do anything silly and get caught. I really haven't seen anything suspicious from you or the other two players in your slot, but that also adds to it:Avoiding doing anything suspicious so you can blend in. Take that I haven't really gotten much out of you or either of the first two in your slot, it has to mean something, doesn't it? At least with Equinox I've finally gotten a read through her actions, while Zach started with a slot where I had a read, and I don't think he'd be crazy enough to deliberately seem supportive of SD. That's really all I can think of. So through all of this, it just seems like you've kinda been around not doing much, and I think that's what the mafia would want to do.

[Coach Travis]

The case against Equinox seemed weak, and I've never been big on metagaming, so never went through the other game with the two of them. All of Nobody Special's attempts to make a case on someone so far have just seemed like a scum trying to misdirect the town because he knows he's pretty much done, and is just stalling. And I have heard of people "defending" others they vote for, because you don't need to think every single thing someone does is scummy to think they are scum. You just need to think the scum posts outweigh the town ones.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, I really can't object to hammering Nobody Special at this point. I don't see him being able to convince me he's town. Obviously things become complicated if he is town, but I'm very confident he's scum, and hammering him will result in a town victory.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, this is a very tough situation indeed, never thought it would be down to the three of us, that's for sure. Seeing how I've thought both Incog and Equinox to be town lately, I think this will be really hard for me to figure out. I'll have to go through posts as well, though obviously now that NS is gone, his suspicion of Equinox is something I'll look into, and with a couple things we've mentioned on Equinox in day 3, I currently find her the better option, but I won't even think of risking a lynch until I'm totally confident this time.

[Coach Travis]

@Incog:The thing with Alta was that a lot of my case on him at the time was based on the fact that he had been pretty much useless, and not really helping in any way, so I figured that was scummy. Due to the nature of my case on him, I didn't think it was likely he'd be lynched, because there was already a stronger case on Earlder 1, but I definitely wanted him to get some attention, which I felt he did by the time he was replaced.

As for SD, I thought from the start he was contributing much more than Alta, I liked some of his posts early, nut the one flaw I have in this game, is for whatever reason I always assume the best in people, like my lack of social skills are making me naive and easy to manipulate, so that also kinda plays into backing off so quickly at first, until I had a reason to find him suspicious again. So I think I was finding town because he was contributing a lot and making good posts, and not actually because I had a good town read. That even explains why I was eventually willing to write Alta's off as a pure newb.

Right now, I can see a case either way, though still leaning towards Equinox. A lot of the points on LC make sense, and I know she can't really defend against that, but it is the same role, so if the original player could possibly be connected to SD, it's possible they are partners.

[Coach Travis]

Well, I currently believe Equinox is scum, but what I mean is I won't totally dismiss the possibility that it's you. I know my problem early on(and even yesterday), was I was so fast to dismiss people for various reasons, when it's obvious someone has to be scum. So basically, I'll give Equinox a chance to make her case against you, and then examine it to see if I believe it as much as yours, though right now I do feel the better case is against Equinox. I really just don't don't want to make a mistake here, so I'm not dismissing any possibility.

[Coach Travis]

Not sure what to think of the case on Incog. I'm trying to come to my own conclusion right now, since this very well could come down to my vote, and I'm going insane. The problem I'm having is a lot of the points on Incog were already explained by him, pretty well even, though I can see a connection to SD, and it is possible to come to the conclusion he was SD's partner, but I'm not sure if I believe it. Though obviously his whole trichotomy thing could have been because he knew SD was scum, due to being partnered, and was doing more distancing. Or he could really could have thought at least one of us was scum. I really wish I was better at reading people for clutch situations like this. I really can see a case on either player right now. I'm definitely going to to take more time, see if I can ever sort this out. Though I'm still not sure about this whole "fake" thing Equinox sees in Incog, so between that and generally not being too sold on that case, I'd still probably lean towards voting Equinox right now.

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, I realize he's very skilled and obviously has experience manipulating people, which is why I'm hesitant to lynch anyone until I'm more sure. One thing I don't like about him is how he suspected you about the connection to SD in day 3, then when you defended against that he thought you seemed townish, then just used the same argument again today, and mostly focused on LC, which really can't be defended either way now because LC's been replaced. Things like that make me unsure, but he's so skilled it's also hard to make a case against him, because he's very smart, very careful, so that's why I'm having a really hard time here. I can see both sides, and I'm not sure if all I have against him is that his experience makes me really nervous or if I really find him scummy. Going through his posts a bit, I actually can see how I was to quick to trust him about an unexplained vote because something like that really doesn't benefit the town as far as I can tell where scum don't need reason because they know everyone's alignment.

And, I'd need examples of what seemed fake. Reading through his posts I still can't really notice anything. I agree that he seemed very null early on, though.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, still not planning to hammer quite yet but this sure is getting interesting. After reading through both cases extensively, and going over all posts brought up, I'm still leaning towards Equinox right now. The thing is, a lot of her points did seem to be really stretching it, and that's what I meant when I said Incog had already explained them:A lot of it just seemed like her trying to make him look bad when at least to me most of his actions being referred to were very understandable. And I also feel that the WIFOM about him being an IC, and simply saying he's better at explaining things just seems like Equinox trying to scare me into voting Incog because she knows there's not really a case against him but wants me to think there is. So this is definitely interesting. and I'm getting a bit closer to voting, but I still need to be even more sure. Maybe tomorrow.

[Coach Travis]

Man, this is tough, and I'm going to feel pretty awful if I'm wrong, but worse things have happened. Thing is, while Equinox has been very passionate throughout this, Incog really does have a stronger case here, and all the evidence piled up against the LC/Equinox slot seems much stronger than and more concerning than anything anyone could pick out against Incog(which really is mostly just saying he's experienced as scum, and could just be tricking us,), not to mention most of Equinox's arguments are huge stretches, and even stuff like the thing with SD I feel could go either way, so taking everything into consideration, I'm going to

Vote:Equinox

[Coach Travis]

I know. I'm actually forced to be up for a while longer anyway, so that's why.

[Coach Travis]

Damn. Well, it's pretty obvious what happened there:Got outsmarted by Incog, he really is the legendary scum Equinox made him out to be. This sucks, but at least I can take comfort in the fact that I noticeably improved the instant I was forced into L-1, made a good recovery, helped catch a scum, and at least avoided being lynched as town this time, so I got the defense part figured out. Now I need to work on some offense, and yeah, digging up stuff on people so I can present my own cases. Ah well. Congrats to Incog:He pretty much played me the entire game. I will study his performance here to learn some effective scum tactics, and how I could notice them better in future games.