Newbie #957 (Game over)

[Espeonage]

easjo682

How the hell are we going to remember how to spell that or shorten it. You need to go.

Hai peeps. I am one of your SE's this game. I hate long posts (yeah get that random wagon going.) and am an Aussie. (Even more reason for a random vote.)

[Espeonage]

I don't like this game. The best thing about Newbie games is the little newbie's I get to corrupt and manipulate. SE's are too smart for that. :'(

[Espeonage]

Sorry. I should have made it clearer I wasn't voting.

Vote: Kunk

=P

[Espeonage]

ok this might actually end up being a fun game after all.

[Espeonage]

Also Mah name don't have a ! fool.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: easjo682

Why am I not surprised Miss fush and chups has such a weird username. And for your info my name is a clever play on words.

[Espeonage]

I love RVS with newbies.

[Espeonage]

Ok. Common thing in RVS is to get a wagon going. Pressure is what starts discussion. By putting multiple votes on me it means that discussion will probably start to occur. This little talk is exactly what the point of RVS is. Once people keep posting they have a greater likelyhood of dropping tells which lets us move forward in the game.

[Espeonage]

Yup.

This is normal.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Kunkstar7

Because as the IC here, he has the most experience and I must regard him as either my closest ally or deadliest of my enemies.

This is my first game here on this Forum, so let's see how this game goes! Good luck to everyone.

I actually don't like this post very much. I see where Elle is coming from but ifm he is scum we can catch him so not to worry.

[Espeonage]

O ok, would u mind going to L-1 then?

That might be pushing it bud.

[Espeonage]

lol

[Espeonage]

I hope you see the point I was trying to make now.

I know what you were saying. I just explained why my being put at L-2 wasn't unusual.

[Espeonage]

Noone was risking a lynch.

[Espeonage]

jay is town. In four games with self votes I have never seen a scum self-vote.

[Espeonage]

Did anything exciting happen while I was asleep. I really don't want to have to sift through that many posts.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

The time for random votes is passed.

[Espeonage]

I have been waiting for kunk to do this but he doesn't seem to be abliging.

Hmmm.... Actually, I can't think of a reason why kunkstar7 is extra suspicious. Let me change the list.

easjo682†
Elleran
Espeonage†

jayfl383

kunkstar7*
Mr.Sandman†
nevermind
Silver_o1
Slepz†

Black = no suspicion
Red = Scum
Blue = Pro-Town
Green = suspicious

There is rarely a good time to be posting town reads. Scum loves to hear what people are town in the town's eyes. They know not to frame them and to NK them instead. They also know which of their group they need to support more because he isn't on the town list.
tl;dr Posting town reads is almost never a good idea unless you are cop and going to be nked the following night.

[Espeonage]

EBWOP. That was me as SE not as a player.

[Espeonage]

I guess. Stating the occasional town read is ok but full out posting exactly where you head is at is usually not a good thing as it is too helpful to town. I suppose it comes down to how each player feels but I just know that when I am scum I love hearing who is town's pick as town.

[Espeonage]

Typo.

[Espeonage]

Animorpherv1 did something similar in Post 57 of Open 195.

I think a godfather would be more discreet then that,

considering that

we

lose if they get lynched

.

He was scum. So I'm not really willing to just let it go as a typo.

Fair enough. It's your choice wether or not to believe me. To base a case on it isn't really all that great. I'm sure I can find quite a few cases where typos have been just typos.

[Espeonage]

Jay. It is called breadcrumbing.

[Espeonage]

Also I have little grasp on this game thanks to the arguement. I need to get a handle on players and noone has been particularly scummy other than Kunk making such a weak case on me and even that isn't scummy because we have nothing to go on. I really wish we could go and do RVS over again.
Anyways. I'm not going to be voting until I see something just so everyone knows why I wont be placing a vote for a little while.

[Espeonage]

I'm confused about something, espeonage. You random-voted easjo, then kunk, then

re

-random-vote easjo, and then say the time for random-voting is past. I hear there are great reviews on

the case on (here insert playername of your choice. If you guess the right person, you win!), and it's coming out soon.

It was a long time after those votes that I actually said that the RVS was over. It was all part of the early game banter.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Kunk

[Espeonage]

I like to see what the town makes of votes by voting before putting reasoning but since you guys asked for it I shall tell.

As an IC kunk should be promoting good play and such. In the being a good IC it says that you should at all times try and keep playing to your win conditions. He is joking around and not exhibiting that which by what he is supposed to do makes him scum or being a bit vague to the newbies. Now I'm not judging him but in a game like this I needed to find something to vote someone for and that is what I picked up on.

Oh and don't take that as me thinking he hasn't been a good IC. He did do well to calm down that silly scuffle early on in the day and such.

I know it is a weak case but is what I have got.

[Espeonage]

At least you admit it's weak Espeonage. I find your vote without reasoning in the same post scummy but your subsequent reasoning is just a nulltell. I would like to know exactly what is joking, because outside of my original RVS votes/posts, which actually had a tinge of serious intent in them, and the oneline specified joke, I've been quite serious. The last half of that sentence sort of gets lost to me.

From reading some of the recent views of Elleran I think I'm looking at his actions wrong. The PR-tell searching, the apparent eagerness to please others and look acceptable are things that are scummy. Elleran, if jayfl is town to you, then why exactly are you voting him?

@jayfl: Please stop with the fallacy that just because he thinks you are scum (justified by your anti-town actions) that he is scum. Its not helping, and I have yet to see any viable reasoning come from you that shows to me that nevermind is scum. It requires more than "he thinks I'm scummy so I must have outted him."

It was a serious vote but based on paper thin logic. Honestly the only other people who have posted enough for me to get a read on are Mr.Sandman whom I have a slight town swing anf the nevermind jay fiasco which is a bitch to try and untangle to get something out of it.

[Espeonage]

Jay said they were.

[Espeonage]

I like that one better though.

[Espeonage]

Ok people this is just appaling. Someone get some posts in here.

@Everyone: What is your opinion on the jay/nvm exchange. I want a good explaination wether you think of something or even if you think it is a null tell.

[Espeonage]

Ok I personally think it is a town exchange. At the moment I think it is safe to assume jay is a VI and nevermind got caught up in the fire and figured he should defend himself and fell into the trap of he thinks i'm scummy so he must be scummy.

[Espeonage]

Nah I'm liking a kunk wagon until we can make something of other people. We still got time.

[Espeonage]

He is not playing how someone of his experience should be if they were town. Every newbie game I have played the IC has played as the white horse if they are town. He has not. This strikes me as odd since if he were town that would be the best way to go about putting town in the best position to win.

Add to that the points that Mr. Sandman raised when he put his vote down and you have the biggest case this game has seen so far. That in itself warrant s a wagon especially szince this game is stuck in neutral at the moment which is very detrimental to town. I'm not asking for a lynch ... yet, I'm asking for a wagon.

[Espeonage]

I hardly see how kunk is a policy lynch. There is a case based on that principle but that doesn't make it a policy lynch it makes it a good lynch.

[Espeonage]

jay is town. VI but town none-the-less. He is the reason why I keep playing newbie games.

Ok kunk. I suppose it was just confusing to me that you didn't even try to take the helm of the town. this is the first time I haven't seen this done except the one time that the scum killed the IC after a quicklynch seeing as there was no time for him to assert himself. In that game as a SE the town then followed me. The moral of the story newbie games have a completely different style of play to other games. They are a teaching excercise and thus are weighted heavily in the ICs alignment. So you tell me why you as town wouldn't want to get those townies scumhunting properly if you really do want them to. You hold alot of power in this game wether you realise it or not. I do think that opportunity is now gone but the fact that you didn't (I know you have played newbie games before and know how they work.) makes me think you really don't want an organised town. What you are doing is the same as someone trying to destablize the town. Would you consider that a scumtell?

Now maybe I have gone a little harsh and expected too much from an IC, I don't know. The whole thing seems fishy and the last three times I had a gut read this strong it cost my town the game because I didn't act on it.

[Espeonage]

You can't just ask for a replacement. they have to go through the inactivity for that to happen. So basically unless he flakes he is still around. I know this because someone was trying to force a replacement on me once.

Anyways.

Will be V/LA until monday depending on how well my 18th goes.

[Espeonage]

UNVOTE JAY. I don't give a shit about wether he is an annoying VI but a confirmed townie is as useful as anything. As far as i see it he needs to be kept alive. If the town can actually get their act together then we might get his respect as he has hinted at a few times. In which case he becomes a great asset late game as opposed to being a liability.

[Espeonage]

He does point out that he thinks the town is stupid. That is fair true so far. We have done very little except get our knickers all bunched up about his play.

Unvote, Vote: Elleran

I am seeing a kunk elleran scumteam here.

[Espeonage]

About a week I think.

[Espeonage]

Of course it is going to be a mislynch. Anyone with a brain on their heads can see that. Since when does VI = scum?

[Espeonage]

Does VI mean very ignorant? Just wondering.

Expands to Village Idiot but has become a blanket term for people that are unhelpful but are town none the less.

[Espeonage]

Ok his actions while not pro town are not pro scum either.

[Espeonage]

Ok my short guide on why Jay is town.

This is a newbie game. He obviously wanted to be a dick and playing a newbie game is the easiest way in which to do this. His play is in no way pro-scum (By pro-scum I mean that it isn't pointing towards jay being scum), it is instead perfectly explained by a newbie that wanted to be an annoying piece of poop.

Secondly, now that he has said his piece he is actually making an effort to play in his last few posts. Pro-Town points considering the rest of his play.

Thirdly, And this is classic WIFOM but so obvious that saying it is WIFOM is stupid. He would never have done that were he scum. Being the bad guy is the coolest role to be in a newbie game and would promote sensible play from newbies, especially ones like jay.

Now. If the 0.03% chance of jay being scum is true his scumbuddy lies within the people that asked for his replacement.

[Espeonage]

@nvm: Why exactly do you find me more suspicious than Elleran?

[Espeonage]

lol if we aren't suspicious of everyone, then this game would be at a deadstill.

Hey! Let's all be friends and not lynch each other!...forever!
*10 nightkills later*
Hey, where did all our friends go? *last townie gets lynched*

No. Being suspicious of everyone doesn't mean SCUMMY. It means that he is playing the game.

To each his own. Not everyone plays guilty until proven innocent.

[Espeonage]

If Elleran flips town I agree with the list. If the flip is scum the second lies in the list.

[Espeonage]

17 and a half hours. Has Elleran claimed?

[Espeonage]

Vote: easjo

Considering Ellerans flip and her play yesterday...

[Espeonage]

btw that is L-2 already so lets just be mature from here.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: Me=Weird

[Espeonage]

look at last votecount and his last post before hammer happened. I don't thing there were any scum on Elleran.

[Espeonage]

I'm already suspicious of easjo and I find it hard to believe that scum would be together on a wagon where they are the only two. Therefore Me=Weird.

[Espeonage]

Ok when you have a strong town tell you say it. Especially if they are about to get lynched.

Now to me=weird.

I get the impression that there was only town on the lynch. Common scum tactic is to stay off the lynch so that when wagon analysis comes around they can get a free ride.

So that means that the two scum lie between easjo, yourself and memmon. Now putting the scum votes together is a bit dangerous and the fact that you held off on the hammer when you could have dropped and said you would.

So now everyone knows what I think of easjo but what says I think you are scum more than placing a vote you?

[Espeonage]

So does town. It is a null tell.

Anyways. The wagon didn't have the feel of a scum driven one. It didn't have the urgency other than that we were getting close to deadline. Scum could just sit back and watch what was going on.

[Espeonage]

Ya. I don't see any particularly anti-town incentives for those votes.

[Espeonage]

I said why I went for you over Memmon.

[Espeonage]

My iso 52 and 53.

[Espeonage]

Hmm... Not sure. I haven't really seen anything particularly damning but on the flipside I haven't seen any great protown actions. The fact that he was caught up in the jay stuff makes it cloudy.

[Espeonage]

What am I defending myself from? Lack of good voting reason?

I wouldn't be voting if I didn't believe in it.

[Espeonage]

I'm already suspicious of easjo and I find it hard to believe that scum would be together on a wagon where they are the only two. Therefore Me=Weird.

Ok when you have a strong town tell you say it. Especially if they are about to get lynched.

Now to me=weird.

I get the impression that there was only town on the lynch. Common scum tactic is to stay off the lynch so that when wagon analysis comes around they can get a free ride.

So that means that the two scum lie between easjo, yourself and memmon. Now putting the scum votes together is a bit dangerous and the fact that you held off on the hammer when you could have dropped and said you would.

So now everyone knows what I think of easjo but what says I think you are scum more than placing a vote you?

These were the two isos I gave you. Both of them say why by process of elimination the scum is most likely you and easjo. I may move on to memmon or back to someone on the lynch wagon but for now I'm liking my vote.

[Espeonage]

I am happy with a lynch of either easjo or me=weird.

[Espeonage]

Has anyone PMed Vel? I will if noone has.

[Espeonage]

Thanks Vel.

[Espeonage]

lol

[Espeonage]

UNVOTE: Me=Weird
VOTE: easjo

M=W isn't going to pick up today.

[Espeonage]

V/LA for 48 hoursish

[Espeonage]

Someone please hammer ASAP.

Prod on easjo, memnon, and nevermind please, VRK.

sadface post


If it weren't for kunk on easjo I would REALLY love to see you lynched.

[Espeonage]

UNVOTE: Mah Vote
VOTE: Memnon

[Espeonage]

Come on. two votes on me or one vote on Memnon within the next 7 hours pleases.

Either way we need a lynch.

[Espeonage]

eh

[Espeonage]

Gah. I really wish I hadn't been killed. Never truely thought Me=weird was scum. I just didn't want scum on my ass. Shame it didn't work. Kudos to Utie. You did really well and made the most of the replacement halo.

[Espeonage]

Well unlike what everyone thought Nevermind was my top suspect once Kunk had been cleared by my first. I knew I could investigate him the next night so I layed off the wagon analysis for that wagon and build a shadow case that I knew wouldn't really take off. I figured that the scumperson would be laughing at how off track I was and as such would keep me alive. I originally went after kunk because I had a logical scum read but my gut was saying no.

[Espeonage]

also at that night my list would have been 5 to kunk, 4 to jay, 3 to m=w, 2 to you and 1 to nvm.

[Espeonage]

That's almost a compliment tbh.