Newbie 955 - Game over

[MrSandman]

Hey guys.

Vote Hoople

Happy Bday.

[MrSandman]

Oh dear. It's going to take me some time to get used to not being able to edit posts.

[MrSandman]

Unvote

[MrSandman]

Vote Valkyrie

You ever going to show up and post bro?

[MrSandman]

Pretty pretty sure it was a joke.

[MrSandman]

Vote Valkyrie

You ever going to show up and post bro?

Seems a bit early to be on the lurker hunt, no? If that is going to be the criteria for your vote now, why did you neglect to mention sailorpallas? Or are you only upset with Valkyrie?

Your first vote did not stick very well, and to be honest it was unusual unvoting when you did. It makes it look like you're now seeking a safe place to drop a vote, rather than concerning yourself with the reasons the vote is supposedly for. For if you were serious about it's intentions you wouldn't have been so brazen to miss another non-poster. I'd suggest this is a weak scum tell, as scum are likelier to try and drop a 'safe' vote to stay unchallenged - remember survival is a lot more individually important to scum than town. I'm happy to hear your interpretation of events before I abandon Ray for you.

No, I'm only upset with Valkyrie. I was just teasing though.

[MrSandman]

Also, we'd get nowhere if everyone wanted to hold hands and keep a one-vote-per-player rule in place. More Ray votes please.

isnt it also good for town to have discussion though, and not a total consensus on day 1 votes so soon? i mean, i know all of us voting for all different people doesnt get us anywhere, but doesnt having a few different perspectives and votes for different people help town more than just getting more votes for someone at first?

Random voting early on is supposed to spark the discussion.

[MrSandman]

No, I'm only upset with Valkyrie. I was just teasing though.

Why are you back-pedaling? I'd much prefer a lurker vote over a random vote - that's more reasoning than a couple of us have provided. Why not drop a serious vote now? Do you have any substantial reads either way yet?

How am I backpedaling?

[MrSandman]

No, I'm only upset with Valkyrie. I was just teasing though.

Why are you back-pedaling? I'd much prefer a lurker vote over a random vote - that's more reasoning than a couple of us have provided. Why not drop a serious vote now? Do you have any substantial reads either way yet?

How am I backpedaling?

It looks like you're taking a serious stance on non-posters, but then make up for your lack of sailor mention with a casual joke. 'I was just teasing' - plays down the potential seriousness of your lurker-vote which stops anyone finding you scummy for it, if there was no serious intent behind it.

So, was it serious? Why not place a serious vote now? In conclusion, why so serious?

You assumed that the vote was for a stance against non-posters. I replied saying it was just a lighthearted vote against Valk. The serious voting on page one is simply fabrication.

[MrSandman]

Can't say at this point. Anything I bring up would really be grasping at straws. If you put a gun to my head though I'd say LobsterCatapult is more likely to be mafia. Perhaps playing the naive game. This is Road to Rome though.

You seem fine to me so far.

[MrSandman]

Now hoopla, don't go spreading lies about me... I may

think

know cats are the spawn of demon creatures that live inside our blood, but I'm way too smart to throw

rocks

at them. That'd only make them eat me. You should clearly use a laser beam to fry them. Do you know nothing? Or maybe you are an agent of their chaos!?

Anyway, interrupting hoopla's interrogation of sandman to ask a question of the utmost importance that will determine the fate of the galaxy.

No, I'm only upset with Valkyrie. I was just teasing though.

Why are you upset with valkyrie? If you are upset with valkyrie (and that is why you voted valkyrie), how is your vote 'just teasing?'

He just sent me a PM the day I joined. Not upset.

[MrSandman]

I can see how that could look bad.

Vote Valkyrie

You ever going to show up and post bro?

Seems a bit early to be on the lurker hunt, no? If that is going to be the criteria for your vote now, why did you neglect to mention sailorpallas? Or are you only upset with Valkyrie?

No, I'm only upset with Valkyrie. I was just teasing though.

Did not expect a deal to be made out of a first page joke vote so I just copied the last option. Meant to come across as not just voting for as so far non-poster but picking out Valkyrie over sailorpallas for a reason.

[MrSandman]

sorry my job has lept me going and i juuuust got on to vote

Vote: Valkyrie

Hey. Random vote?

Not Liking Sandman's recent posts. Do we get to hear the gist of that PM to Valkyrie to be sure its not" 'kill them - kill them all!' *evil cackle* "

That was about the gist of it. You know how those welcome messages usually are.

vote Mr Sandman

Questions to all

(1) is respect for the mod the Mark of the ScumBeast or Town being nice?
(2) who has performed the best scumhunt so far, in your view?

Being nice to the mod is being nice to the mod. I see nothing scummy there. Is this just part of the random question faze or is there something specific you noticed?

Concerning your second question. Hoopla I suppose. Not much competition. It's only page three after all.

[MrSandman]

<b> unvote

vote:sailorpallas</b>

sailorpallas comes across as more likely to be mafia than adaham at this point,

reading over his posts

, and i'd like a reason for sailors vote, as well as an explination on just got on to vote...it seems like he doesn't intend on adding substance, only a vote, to posts to me.

You mean post? At time of this sailorpallas had but one message. It was just a seemingly random vote however but still, this comes off a bit stranger in my eyes.

[MrSandman]

unfourtanatley yes the reason i chose valk is that they came in late(which means that they could have been watching and waiting the entire time) my problem is that the same reasoning can be used against me D: but(and this was not on you because you reasoning makes sense) people without a reason who change there votes always strike me as suspicious

This makes absolutely no sense. From what I gather you voted for Valk for something you admit you did yourself. Please explain what makes you any better.

[MrSandman]

<b> unvote

vote:sailorpallas</b>

sailorpallas comes across as more likely to be mafia than adaham at this point,

reading over his posts

, and i'd like a reason for sailors vote, as well as an explination on just got on to vote...it seems like he doesn't intend on adding substance, only a vote, to posts to me.

You mean post? At time of this sailorpallas had but one message. It was just a seemingly random vote however but still, this comes off a bit stranger in my eyes.

i had merely taken it for a typo(easy enough as it should be a bit more strange not a bit stranger[ i to talk i typo hardcore]) the question is why a target at me instead of question both me and valk coming on

Why are you defending LobsterCatapult?

Also I did inquire about Valk's post. It's just that you took it to the next level and voted with nothing behind it. Not even an I agree with. This isn't page one. "I Just got on the vote" also rubbed me the wrong way. I assumed you just wanted to get a random vote in or something for your first post but then you go on to say it was because she came in late.

You came in later.

Quesion: Who's #2 on your scum list?

[MrSandman]

i can´t i can only give my reason for voting in that way and(i only mentioned as it is bloody obvious that i am hypocritical in a way for voting as such) though it does make me seem more guilty why didn´t i choose a person who more people are voting on or lynching? i only wanted to clarify that yes my reason implicates me but one still has to think on it

Is there anyway you can type a little bit cleaner? I'm having trouble understanding your points.

[MrSandman]

Someone explain to me why Valkyrie has three votes? The universe doesn't make sense.

Care to explain to the newbies on why this is a problem my inexperienced challenged comrade?

I suppose you're right though,

Unvote

. Too early for L - 2.

[MrSandman]

oh, gotcha..thats what i thought but i wasnt sure.i guess this is the best game to learn the terms XD

The Mafiascum wiki is a great place to learn the abbreviations and terms.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

[MrSandman]

Someone explain to me why Valkyrie has three votes? The universe doesn't make sense.

Care to explain to the newbies on why this is a problem my inexperienced challenged comrade?

I suppose you're right though,

Unvote

. Too early for L - 2.

lol

This, my dear townies, is an example of scum bowing out of a vote for little reasoning as soon as he's questioned about the why of his vote.

It was a page one joke vote.

[MrSandman]

Just a quick comment on SailorPallas - this doesn't look like scum playing and Sandman's tunnelling of SailorPallas is in itself more scummy. SP - if I said you looked like you had made a newbie slip or two I hope you won't be offended.

I'm not sure what tunneling means. Not in the glossary. Explain and I'll respond to this.

I'm still busy reading up the posts. I'd be more active, but is it only me or do pages sometimes take like ten or twenty minutes to load? Sometimes it's super slow.

I have a pretty fast connection and I was getting some problems earlier. Still though, we only have 5 pages. You should be caught up by now even with dialup.

I'm suggesting that if we don't have a clear scum choice, inactive/weak players (in that order) should be the obvious choice (since we gotta lynch in order to at least hit odds), for two reasons.


1. It's easy for scum to pretend to play weak, especially with new players since we have no meta on them. That means weak play is a scumtell in and of itself. This applies to being both weak and inactive. Being strategically inactive is an even bigger scumtell.


2. Strong players are more valuable to have in town in general, even if they flip scum, you're still leaving the majority of strong players in town, and this means it's more likely to have a successful lylo. This goes double for inactives, cause wasted slots or barely active players mean literally can't win lylo at worst, at best it's impossible to get a read on them.


So, my view on town lynch priorities is as follows:

1. Scum
2. Inactives
3. Weak players


K?

I really don't believe in the lynching of weak players and lurkers based simply on being weak or not posting. They can be a concern definitely but it's not a valid lynching reason alone in my opinion. Especially in a newbie game. We still have 16 days to find a target with some evidence behind it. I can't fathom being at the deadline and not having one or two people who the rest of the town can all agree on being a good lynch.

I also think it's a little early to even bring this type of thing up. Even though you said so yourself, it doesn't look good suggesting we thin out weak players becuase they're not very effective in a lylo situation.

[MrSandman]

Valkyrie (1) sailorpallas
MrSandman (3) Hoopla, RayFrost, kingcod
sailorpallas (2) LobsterCatapult, AdumbroDeus
AdumbroDeus (1) Adaham
kingcod (1) MrSandman
(No vote) Valkyrie
9 alive; 5 votes lynch.

Alright, here's how I'm seeing everything so far with five pages to work with.


Adaham: 15 posts, medium content.

Comes off town to me. Genuinely contributes and I agree with his thoughts on LobsterCatapult being fishy and AdumbroDeus having a very shifty Valk vote. I like how he targets everybody.


AdumbroDeus: 12 posts, low content.

I think this is the first time I am posting in regard to AdumbroDeus. Long overdue. Upon looking specifically at his posts, he comes off quite scummy. Does the exact same thing I got dinged for and voted Valk for lurking despite sailorpallas also yet to post. Only thing is, he posted with a serious tone. Whole dealeo about lynching weak players and lurkers is bizarre and really doesn't make sense. Guys trying to seem low profile but I see smoke here.


Hoopla(IE): 17 posts, medium content.

Starter of the MrSandman bandwagon. I think it was perfectly valid. You come off as the aggressive type(state you like people close to lynch) and it's a good way to get information for the town early on. However this recent statement:

Everyone else; we're getting to the point where we've got enough data to work with tomorrow and we should be wrapping up Day 1 before this game evaporates and goes stale. After Valkyrie and Sandman have placed a vote, we can view the collective suspicions of everyone and come to an agreement on someone.

makes my scumdar go off. Not only is the town in a bad position right now,(two players not posting anything of value) we still have 2 weeks to come up something better than we have now. Yes the game is running slow and all but we only have 5 pages of information riddled with double posts and offtopic nonsense. With only 7 actively posting, if Sailor and Valk are both town and remain irrelevant it would take all 5 remaining townies to lynch scum.

Hitting day one is slim but still, I want to at least have a chance. I'll vote but I am definitely not in favor of lynching someone with the town down 2 and 2 weeks left until the deadline.

Is there a chance your just being the IC trying to get things moving/ frustrated and want progress? Sure. That's why you're not one of my top suspects. I get a slight scum read on you but there are bigger fish to fry.


Kingcod(SE): 7 posts, low-medium content.

I get a scum read on Kingcod becuase he was third on the MrSandman wagon with the absolute worst reason, not sharing Valk's PM to me. Tries his best to come off protown but it looks like active lurking to me. Which I think is far more dangerous than just not posting. Backed off on the whole tunneling thing when I inquired and yes, the FoS did look very OMGUS.

In response to your questions:

@Sandman - are you not voting because you are scum?

Not at all, I've just been cautious with my vote. Waiting until I have a conclusive target.

Who should be topping the vote list if not you?

You or AdumbroDeus.


LobsterCatapult 19 posts, low-medium content.

Not sure on this guy. Playing newbie style and that's fine but seems all over the place. I agree with her on some things but the long posts when questioned or suspected looks bad. Could just be a total newbie trying to help the town, scum or all an act. Neutral(We are only at five pages after all) but if you put a gun to my head, I would lean ever so slightly to defensive scum.


RayFrost(SE) 11 posts, low-medium content.

Second on the MrSandman bandwagon. Vote spawned from talk over the Valkyrie vote. Didn't think it was justified but other than that I get a town vibe from RayFrost. Asks relevant questions, makes remarks and attempts to scum hunt. Agree with the weirdness of the Hoopla Valkyrie town read. Neutral read leaning lightly town.


Sailorpallas 5 posts, very low content.

Why isn't this dude replaced yet? He hasn't posted in 6 days.

I don't believe any "tunneling" went on during that whole jumping on him thing went down. Putting votes or asking questions is a way to get someone to start posting and was warranted with flawed reasoning being displayed. Very light scum read for jumping on the Valkyrie wagon for absolutely no reason. Should be replaced asap.


Valkyrie 6 posts, very very very low content.

Post! You have said you are suspicious of Sailorpallas and AdumbroDeus but only mentioned each once. Which is it and why? I get a slight scum read on you becuase you got very defensive when called out about not contributing and lied by saying you have added content.

In conclusion, I will

Vote Kingcod

becuase of above and the dude deserves at least one vote. Obviously I would also be in favor of a AdumbroDeus lynch also. I don't think it's a good idea to lynch anyone at least until Valk finally contributes something and Sailorpallas gets replaced.

[MrSandman]

Welcome redtail896. Thanks for replacing. If we get Valkyrie to start posting we may have something going here.

I get a scum read on Kingcod becuase he was third on the MrSandman wagon with the absolute worst reason, not sharing Valk's PM to me.

That wasn't my reason, sorry if it wasn't clear to you -
I said "Not Liking Sandman's recent posts" - which was to concur with Hoopla's initial reason.

Concurring with Hoopla's initial reason which was me "attacking" a lurker. So basically you just jumped on the bandwagon becuase you thought this post...

Vote Valkyrie

You ever going to show up and post bro?

was a legitimate scum tell. Notice how it was on page 1? Notice the

bro

? Both signs point to it being a light hearted vote. Hoopla even admits it's just a "weak scumtell" in her 4th post. Yet you have still have no problem jumping on the bandwagon. Strange how AdumbroDeus does the exact same thing here on page 3...

Fair enough Hoopla, just seeing what comes out.


On to my next person:

Unvote

Vote: Valkyrie

No activity yet at all, really?



Any particular reason you guys chose me? I'd like to here your reasoning for focusing on me as a bandwagon choice.

and you fail to even mention it!

Did you in fact say you wouldn't share the PM?

No I didn't.

@Sandman - are you not voting because you are scum?

Not at all, I've just been cautious with my vote. Waiting until I have a conclusive target.

But you could have voted on me last Thursday then couldn't you? That was when I posted the content you are now using for a 'conclusive target'? You seem to have waited until you were prompted to vote by Hoopla, rather than appear suspicious.

In conclusion, I will Vote Kingcod becuase of above

and the dude deserves at least one vote.

I don't know what to make of this. Scum might join a bandwagon, but scum might also want to spread the votes as wide as possible to create confusion. Any ideas?

Tell me this Kingcod, when and where can I vote and not have it look scummy to you? I vote, you say it's a scumtell. I don't vote, you say it's a scumtell. I vote after Hoopla alpha's up and finally sparks so meaningful discussion, it's a scumtell. If I choose to join a bandwagon(Which you did) it's a scumtell. If I "spread the votes"(Which I call voting for who I think is scum) it's a scumtell.

Just take the damn vote guy and don't get so defensive. "scum might also want to spread the votes as wide as possible to create confusion. Any ideas?" My idea? BS. Confusion? No, you are just not very happy I voted for you.

[MrSandman]

Hi, hopefully I'll be caught up by tonight.

Thanks for replacing.

@MrSandman Do you sympathize at all with the bandwagon against you?

At this point, no. I was alright with it at first becuase things were just starting out and there's always someone bandwagoned pretty early in my experience. When it didn't go away I got concerned about it though. The fact that Rayforst says she`s not willing to lynch me yet still says there`s no place better to put it really rubs me the wrong way.

why did you devote and entire post to a single unvote on page 1 (with literally no reasoning attached)?

I was just posting what I felt. It was my first game back and thought we would just be kidding around for the first few pages. Boy was I wrong.

CALM DOWN MY NEWBIES, HELPFULNESS ISN'T A SCUMTELL!

Also, I understand the paranoia about ending the day too quickly. I too was raised on the maxim of 'never rushing the day', but using time just for the sake of using time IS A DAMAGING LONG-TERM MENTALITY to fall into. It drops off awareness, dwindles interest in the game, and makes data harder to analyse the next day. I have had much more success in scumhunting after a short 100-150 post day, than chatting and circular arguments for 300 posts.

It came off as scummy to me. I`m glad you helped get some discussion going but I didn`t get being so eager to lynch. I`ve noted that you explained why you said it.

[MrSandman]

Could I get everyone's top 3 lynch targets and why?

Most people have already answered this. I would like to hear your answer for your own question though.

Rayfrost too. Me, valkyrie and kingcod where his earlier suspects but Valk has been replaced, he recently stated he's not willing to lynch me and he's yet to vote for Kingcod.

[MrSandman]

Sorry I had to go v/la right after replacing in. I'm about to finish some ISO's.

Good to hear. We really could use another to get revive everyone. Still waiting for AdumbroDeus and Rayfrost.