Newbie 955 - Game over

[AdumbroDeus]

Random voting time.

Vote: RayFrost

What are your suspicions?

[AdumbroDeus]

Speaking of which, since the game started,

it would be nice if everyone got a PM saying that it started

, I was only here by chance.

[AdumbroDeus]

*rubs hands*


Let's get started, Hoopla, why'd you join my bandwagon?

[AdumbroDeus]

*rubs hands*


Let's get started, Hoopla, why'd you join my bandwagon?

I wasn't aware you owned the rights to this wagon.

Well now you are, so why'd you choose to follow in my bandwagon, was it something about Ray or because I had already posted, I'd like your thoughts.

[AdumbroDeus]

Hi hoopla! Nice to be in a game with you as a lone player this time around.

What do you mean by lone player?

[AdumbroDeus]

Hi hoopla! Nice to be in a game with you as a lone player this time around.

What do you mean by lone player?

Ever heard of hydras?

They are where multiple people use a single account and play as a single role.

For example, I could make an account named xxabeiab and use it in games and share the password and account with hoopla or some other person on MS, meaning that both of us post from the account and play the role given to the account.

Well, I have played in the same game as hoopla in a hydra, but, as far as I'm aware, have not played in the same game as hoopla outside of that.

Yeah, I know Hydras, there are a couple of ways that can be interpreted, wanted to be sure.

[AdumbroDeus]

Who's an alt?


Alts are alternate accounts, specifically of somebody already here.

[AdumbroDeus]

Fair enough Hoopla, just seeing what comes out.


On to my next person:

Unvote

Vote: Valkyrie

No activity yet at all, really?



Any particular reason you guys chose me? I'd like to here your reasoning for focusing on me as a bandwagon choice.

[AdumbroDeus]

EBWOP: fixing formatting, dunno if tags at the end and beginning invalidate it.

Unvote

Vote: Valkyrie

[AdumbroDeus]

Sorry about that, I've been busy with school.

Lurkers die quickly, if you're not posting with reasonable regularity you're probably ending up dead.

Someone explain to me why Valkyrie has three votes? The universe doesn't make sense.

Care to explain to the newbies on why this is a problem my inexperienced challenged comrade?

I suppose you're right though,

Unvote

. Too early for L - 2.

It isn't a problem - I generally favour one or two people hovering close to lynch. I just want to know the reasons from those voting her.

Personally, it was because she hadn't posted yet. Now I've got a scummy target, so no reason to prod for now.

Unvote


Vote: Sailorpallas

unfourtanatley yes the reason i chose valk is that they came in late(which means that they could have been watching and waiting the entire time) my problem is that the same reasoning can be used against me D: but(and this was not on you because you reasoning makes sense) people without a reason who change there votes always strike me as suspicious

So not even inactivity, that Valk came in late... that's a ridiculous reason and seems to put you in the "dumb or scum" category.

By your own admission, your reasoning applies to you, why shouldn't we lynch you?

[AdumbroDeus]

Just a quick comment on SailorPallas - this doesn't look like scum playing and Sandman's tunnelling of SailorPallas is in itself more scummy. SP - if I said you looked like you had made a newbie slip or two I hope you won't be offended.

Here´s one of the things I actually really agree with you. When I see top of the page that we´ve got two L-2 wagons, then I´m pretty sure the scum is probably having a vote on one of each. While writing this, I actually see with great concern that AdumbroDeus has changed the wagon, after being already on the safe side with his "calling out vote" on Valkyrie.

Of all people playing, I see SailorPallas as the one that has the most "Newbie"-air around himself. He comes in clanging clumsily and behaves a bit naive in general. Please don´t take this insulting, but I´ve seen plenty of really new players come in like that as innocents. Before they catch the drift of the game (or sometimes it´s just their style), they are usually lynched. Noob-Scum makes other mistakes, or so my gut says.

I believe the Scummies are very happy a lynchable, self-incriminating target has stepped upon the stage and they are trying to get the bandwagon rolling. This means that Lobster and Adumbro have risen considerably on my list of suspects. As it is good not to get tunnel-vision, and while my suspicion partially remains on kingcod, I´m going to move my vote.

vote: AdumbroDeus

His "pressure vote" on Valkyrie was the second vote, and considering Val hadn´t even checked in, it was a nice place in between. Nobody is going to call him out on that, but SailorPallas stepped into the trap and got all the attention for the third vote (the reason being pretty much the same as Adumbros, just uttered from the wrong mouth). His ways of scumhunting seem to be looking for easy bandwagons and as he admitted in his latest post, "he´s now got a scummy target", which probably means he´s serious about his vote.

Last, but not least, he´s got no Avatar

[/quote]


Honestly, how are either of us tunneling sailor?

We both seemed to have arrived to the conclusion that Sailor's logic is poor, and that is a scumtell. One other person is not a safe wagon, and "weak targets" seems to translate to you as "people with scumtells".


Regardless, even if Sailor is just a weak player at the end of the day, weak players are bad for town, especially in lylo, so scum is obviously top priority, but weak players are there too, failing a good choice for clearly scum. Of course inactives have priority over simply weak players cause the town cannot win with them.


Still, the day is young, at this point I just wanna see how Sailor responds, it's too early to have a preferred lynch.


Your post implies you had a similar purpose with me, so I'll take it as scumhunting.

[AdumbroDeus]

@AdumbroDeus - sorry I don't understand this - can you rephrase?

"Regardless, even if Sailor is just a weak player at the end of the day, weak players are bad for town, especially in lylo, so scum is obviously top priority, but weak players are there too, failing a good choice for clearly scum. Of course inactives have priority over simply weak players cause the town cannot win with them."

Are you suggesting lynching weak townies as a strategy to thin out the choices?

I'm suggesting that if we don't have a clear scum choice, inactive/weak players (in that order) should be the obvious choice (since we gotta lynch in order to at least hit odds), for two reasons.


1. It's easy for scum to pretend to play weak, especially with new players since we have no meta on them. That means weak play is a scumtell in and of itself. This applies to being both weak and inactive. Being strategically inactive is an even bigger scumtell.


2. Strong players are more valuable to have in town in general, even if they flip scum, you're still leaving the majority of strong players in town, and this means it's more likely to have a successful lylo. This goes double for inactives, cause wasted slots or barely active players mean literally can't win lylo at worst, at best it's impossible to get a read on them.


So, my view on town lynch priorities is as follows:

1. Scum
2. Inactives
3. Weak players


K?

[AdumbroDeus]

If I was kingcod and innocent, I´d be a bit more harsh in my critique of this basically outrageous statement of AD. to the packy to pace it down?

It was interesting to see how AD and Lobster replied in different manners. While AdumbroDeus appears short and confident, Lobster seems a lot more defensive, as if a nerve was hit. Anyone else seeing that? I´m not quite sure whether to ascribe that to different personalities, experience, or roles.

If I had to choose between AD and Lobster, I´d say that AD is probably more dangerous, but Lobster seems like he´s playing the newbie card a bit too much for my taste. He knows very well how to play this game and since most of us are new to this forum, he shouldn´t try to emphasize this as much as he does. Granted, this is very much gut-based, but since I respect my gut, I´m sharing these thoughts.

No vote change at this moment, but a

FoS: LobsterCatapult

Looking forward to some fresh nsights from Hoopla and more than only questions from RayFrost

Oh, I don't know about Lobster, but I can tell you why I have this viewpoint on lynch priorities.

I have experience in other forums and IRL games, and I've been in more then one game where:

1. Incactives meant no lynch in lylo or managed to destroy town by doing essentially what is in 2.

2. Extremely weak players managed to cloak scum/scum hid by playing inexperienced.


As such I take an extremely dim view on both, obviously scum is first priority always, but failing that, lynching players that are anti-town in hopes that they'll flip scum is the best choice.

[AdumbroDeus]

Ehhh, yeah, sort of forgot about this game for a bit, doesn't help that it's moving very slowly so there's little development.




Regardless, I disagree.

The fact that the three categories interlap is exactly the REASON why I have no problem lynching weak and/or inactive players, because good scum won't be showing up as playing weak.



Honestly, with basically nobody posting, there's very little in the way of concrete scumtells, which means little to scumhunt with.




How am I trying to be low profile btw sandman? I was attempting to be very aggressive... and this lacks the activity that I'm used to.

[AdumbroDeus]

*sigh*


Perhaps you guys have never played a game where a weak player chose to distract from scumhunting with tons of WIFORM logic, or scum very effectively hid as a newbie, well I've lost more then a few games as town for both reasons (hell, I even have one where I did the former before I realized I was being an idiot, still end up costing us the game).


I'll say right now, I come from an environment that's far less tolerant of that kind of play, if you can't effectively scumhunt, you get lynched and fast. If you lurk, you get lynched faster. We may lynch a few townies in the process, but we make sure that scum can't hide like that and do a very good job of forcing them out of their holes.


Heck, our scumhunting in one day produces more then it seems like all the games do in a week. Without the threat of being lynched, regardless of if you're dumb or scum, what's the incentive to actually respond, therebye producing the info?



So, that's where I'm coming from, and quite frankly I'm gaining a major distaste for the slow pace of games here, and the seeming distaste for lynching dead weight.

[AdumbroDeus]

I think it should be obvious why I resorted to primarily defending my approach... because literally everyone's dogpiling on it, leaves me in a very poor position to actually... do any scumhunting because it just gets read as OMGUS as pretty much everyone is suspicious of me, unless it's a really strong case...


And nobody made that big of a slip yet.


Now, if you guys took it as value neutral "difference of opinions", maybe slightly scummy, I'd have something to work with, but I know this position.


Heck, I'm halfway willing to let myself flip just to show you how idiotic you all are to make assumptions based on standard mode of play when somebody's playing their first game here.


But, I'm sure that will happen naturally soon enough.



But there is one person that's been wheedling on me ever since (and if it's just because you're looking at this more neutrally, I apologize, but this doesn't sit right with me):



@kingcod


Why are you attempting to buddy with me when it's obvious you disagree with my position on this? You're a semi-expirienced player here, you should know the modus operendi around here, and if everyone else thinks it's a lynchable offense around here, you certainly should be looking to lynch based on it. But here you are, buddying up with me on it, why? Is it that you expect me to be the first lynch, so when I flip, you get to say, "I defended him" and use it to avoid lynches in the late game.

unvote
Vote: kingcod

Similarly, Ray's lack of commentary on this doesn't sit well for similar reasons, though he doesn't seem to be attempting to actively buddy.

[AdumbroDeus]

=

i am surprised he still has this many votes, kingcod and adumbro, to me seem to ring a bit more scummy...even though they are at each others necks

We're not "at each others necks", he's "trying to hug me" and "I smell blood in the water" is a more apt metaphor, there is nothing that really associates us beyond his attempted buddying.


I found him extremely suspicious for buddying with me, even though he CLEARLY disagrees with my line of thought.

When you have buddying, you rarely have two scum, it's pretty much always a scum and a town, especially since I can see no discernible reasoning for buddying here beyond being able to say "I told you so" when I flip as town.





I'm not gonna respond to any comments about opinions on my scum analysis till kingcod responds.

[AdumbroDeus]

@AdumbroDeus Please explain kingcod's "buddying up" (I'm not seeing it) and why it's suspicious in this case.

@AdumbroDeus - sorry I don't understand this - can you rephrase?

"Regardless, even if Sailor is just a weak player at the end of the day, weak players are bad for town, especially in lylo, so scum is obviously top priority, but weak players are there too, failing a good choice for clearly scum. Of course inactives have priority over simply weak players cause the town cannot win with them."

Are you suggesting lynching weak townies as a strategy to thin out the choices?

Shows he disagrees rather obviously, and finds it to be an outrageous idea.

Well he is both, of course - , but I do agree with ray's sentiment. You are posting more about

not

posting than you have in giving your thoughts and ideas about the game.

Whilst I agree with you that newbies might be weak and therefore at heightened risk of being wrongly lynched I don't really agree that newbies tend to be less active.

We need your valued input whether its comprehensively researched or not.

On the whole 'lets winnow the chaff from the corn' debate its becoming a bit of a null point - surely we only vote for someone who we believe is genuinely scum ... therefore to rank order scum, inactives and weak players (post 103) is simply not relevant.

However, AdumbroDeus is right to raise the debate. Unlike Adaham:

If I was kingcod and innocent, I´d be a bit more harsh in my critique of this basically outrageous statement of AD. Wink to the packy to pace it down?

Methinks this might be stirring discontent

FoS Adaham

And now he's like, "ok, well, we have different opinions, oh but going after adumbro for expressing this opinion, BAD! FOS"


And while I admit it's possible that kingcod is merely more open-minded in terms of the metagame, I find it unlikely especially considering his earlier response, that's why it strikes me as odd, and attempted buddying.


Since I'm probably not gonna live out the day at this rate, my first concern is that town DOES NOT TRUST HIM when I flip.

[AdumbroDeus]

RayFrost

[/b] and

Lobster

are more gut reads, however Lobster is slightly more explainable than Ray. Her eagerness, and genuine curiousity seems genuine - her activity reflects this too. Generally newbie-scum tend to be more tentative and guarded in their posts, because the natural way you want to play scum is to leave your options open and not step on too many toes.. She really does have an inquisitve and naive air about her, which is strikingly town.

This summery is exactly the reason why I play that way as scum when it's my first time playing in a new group that's at least reasonably experienced.


EVERYBODY assumes that, and I end up as the least scummy person by the end of the game, after I bus a comrade or two of course.

We end up winning and I'm like, "serves you right for underestimating me".



Not saying Lobster is scum, I don't have a clear read, yet. But don't be too complacent.

[AdumbroDeus]

@AdumbroDeus - you seem hyper sensitive when your name is mentioned as making a positive contribution, and also suggest that me trying to clarify a point you made is buddying. How does that work?I disagreed with you about picking off weak players and still do. We should lynch scum, not slow players. Are we clear?

Since I'm probably not gonna live out the day at this rate, my first concern is that town DOES NOT TRUST HIM when I flip.

The melodrama in this is suspicious - there is only one vote on AdumbroDeus so he is no worse position than most others.

And just to be a little pendantic you did say you wouldn't respond to comments on your scumtell on me until I had posted ... but then you responded to Redtail896's question. I'll take that as general impatience with the pace of the game!

I must say that re-reading page 6 I am currently finding it hard to pick a strong lynch candidate.

The votecount is irrelevant atm, what matters is that everyone has tossed me into the "suspicious" category, and unless there's a major change in the game, when people decide to lynch, I'm the target.


Now then, to respond to your actual statements, then why did you immediately FoS the guy who went after me for doing WHAT YOU OBVIOUSLY DISAGREE WITH.


Now, please explain why you chose to do that, cause I find it scummy, and I think I'm not the only one (you managed to get Adaham to believe we're a scum team after all).






As for the response to redtail896, I in fact specifically said, "my scum analysis", in other words, "how I think scum should be analyzed". That was referring to RayFrost's post.


So, yes, my ideas are unpopular, might as well use that fact to scumhunt while I'm around.

[AdumbroDeus]

Watching the thread, it's causing a bit of a vicious cycle, there was so little coming in, that I didn't have much to really add to my comments before.


So let's break it shall we?

Could I get everyone's top 3 lynch targets and why?

@ Adaham, do you still think I'm more suspicious then Kingcod? If so why?

[AdumbroDeus]

Before anybody says anything else about me,

I'm replacing out.

My access has been frustratingly limited cause I left my laptop cord at a friend's house and still haven't been able to get it back, thought I could keep up cause this game's so slow, but my access is so limited it doesn't matter.



Obviously I should have access again by the time this game is over so I'll debate philosophical merits in the post-game. Peace all and go town.