Newbie 907 - The Road Back to Magic World, Game Over

[Kishime]

/vote: Agar

Take that.

[Kishime]

I'm learning how to contact juggle which is basically ball manipulation.

That's what she said.

[Kishime]

I probably won't be able to get on my 24 hours but I'll try to. I came across a tool that RedCoyote uses that I found to be quite helpful in showing my thoughts. I'll give it a try;

B)Kishime
C)Lightwolfj
D)easjo682
E)SinSpawn9000
F)LordChronos
G)kyle99 (SE)
H)AGar (SE)
I)Papa Zito (IC)

[Town]-----E----D---B---[FI∙]-H---G---C--------[Scum]

What makes you think I'm town?

Vote: Regfan

[Kishime]

UNVOTE

I am now highly suspicious of both regfan and kishime.

Regfan for tossing out that list and defending kishime so outright for a "gut feeling".

Kishime for trying far too hard to distance himself from regfan so far as to vote him.

This stinks of mafia trying to look like they are not working together.

I voted for him because if he's mafia he knows that I'm town. Otherwise he shouldn't have really had a read on me.

[Kishime]

@Town: The whole fear of bandwagons, btw, is entirely counterproductive. We need bandwagons if we're going to get anywhere.

I agree with this. We need some reactions.

Vote: LordChronos

[Kishime]

I do think you missed the point of that second quote. The point I was trying to make is that it becomes far more difficult to convince other people to vote someone if you don't share reasons. For example, say one of us was to vote AGar right now and wouldn't say why but just said he was scum. Would you switch your vote to AGar? Would you ask why the voter voted?

But if you say why you voted for someone the mafia will pick up on that and not do those actions anymore. Sometimes it's better to not reveal your whole hand until necessary.

[Kishime]

I do think you missed the point of that second quote. The point I was trying to make is that it becomes far more difficult to convince other people to vote someone if you don't share reasons. For example, say one of us was to vote AGar right now and wouldn't say why but just said he was scum. Would you switch your vote to AGar? Would you ask why the voter voted?

But if you say why you voted for someone the mafia will pick up on that and not do those actions anymore. Sometimes it's better to not reveal your whole hand until necessary.

When is it "necessary", then?

I assume when you are confident enough with the information you have collected to make a solid case and point out the scum.

[Kishime]

So you agree with me that Papa Zito should give his reasons for attacking me, since he has felt it necessary to indict me as scum?

I assume at this point he doesn't really have much information, so no I do not agree.

[Kishime]

Then am I correct in assuming that you are voting me solely to get a reaction rather than because you agree with Zito that I am scummy?

Well if I told you that I wouldn't get much of a reaction.

You'll just have to wait and see and hope two more people don't vote for you.

[Kishime]

If there's any reason at all behind the vote, I'd rather you or whoever voted says it out loud. Otherwise no one else will be able to understand and possibly follow the vote.

I disagree for reasons I'm not willing to say yet.

Where's Agar at?

[Kishime]

You are being obtuse and unhelpful to town.

I'm trying to figure out who the two mafia members are. How am I not being helpful to town?

[Kishime]

Let me put it this way.

If I know of a certain tell that helps me catch mafia 80% of the time, it does me no good to announce it to the entire game.

[Kishime]

But how many other people will believe that you are actually onto a mafia if you won't say why you think they are mafia?

If I knew who both of the mafia were, I'd explain why.

[Kishime]

Mafia is not about personal gain, it is about the gain of the town as a whole, so keeping things like that to yourself is damaging to the town as a whole.

Keeping things from the mafia that would help them more than the town is helpful to the town as a whole.

[Kishime]

Well, after reading back thruogh the posts I have developed the opinion that you are scummy, is there a problem with that?

If he's scummy than why aren't I? We're playing a very similar way.

[Kishime]

Normally I wouldn't lynch a lurker, but if he's posting in other games I'm willing to make an exception.

Vote: AGar

[Kishime]

Extra long posts denote trying to draw attention to others, mafia tactics 101.

Wrong.

Think about it, the mafia will most likely have one noob and one more experienced player.

Wrong.

Also I wont vote Chronos cause he seems too witty to be mafia.

This just doesn't even make sense.

Town wins, lets finish this guys.

I agree.

Vote: SinSpawn9000

[Kishime]

One last thing, Kishimes vote on me is obviously a OMGUS vote cause I still think he is mafia and I have picked apart all his poorly made defenses.

You picked apart nothing. LordChronos called out your weak replies and you ignored them and voted for someone else.

[Kishime]

So you are not denying that your vote is indeed an OMGUS vote.

You didn't even vote for me.

I'm not voting for you because you think I'm mafia, I'm voting for you because you said three things that don't make any sense.

[Kishime]

EBWOP: And tell me then what have I ignored? And be smart and include quotes of the question AND my post.

I'm not going to bother quoting what Lord said. He even put it in number format for you right after your terrible rebuttal.

[Kishime]

More so, where my vote is placed has nothing to do with OMGUSing, I have been pressuring you most of the game and you are starting to crack, so naturally you would lash out at the source of the pressure.

Honest poll for the rest of the group here:

Who has "lashed out" more, Sin or myself?

[Kishime]

sin more, but you are both equally responsible for it. why? does it really matter who lynched out more at who?

It only matters in that he said I'm lashing out because I'm "starting to crack" which is weird considering he is lashing out more.

[Kishime]

it was still kinda immature to ask for a poll on who has lashed out more

How is it immature to ask the entire group's opinion? It's more mature to just argue back and forth?

[Kishime]

Its immature to ask about who started a scrap, because it takes two to contribute

I wasn't asking who started it; I was defending myself from his "lashing out" comment. Sin lashing out more than me (my opinion) doesn't make him mafia, but it does make him irrational considering he said that lashing out is a sign of a mafia goon who is starting to crack.

He also accused me of an OMGUS vote after I listed three of my reasons to be suspicious of him. After this, he votes AGar after AGar accuses him of being scummy.

[Kishime]

Though, he has managed to rule two people of his list, which mafia normally try to avoid because it leaves less people they can get lynched.

Really? Because one person says "I think these two people are town" they will never get lynched? Even if that was true, which it isn't, the mafia could still just kill them at night.

[Kishime]

Ruling people of the list means you've scum hunted to a degree meaning you've attempted to help the town, its a lot more then I can say for many other members of this game. Also do you think mafia would say they believe a bunch of people are town, leaving the town with less suspects eventually narrowing it down to them. I doubt it personally, and its not the sole reason I believe he's town.

It's a WIFOM argument, but I believe that one of the basic mafia tells is saying "I'm confident ____ is town" simply because they actually KNOW who the townies are.

Let's say Lord got killed by the mafia tonight and he was revealed to be town. I'm sure eventually Sin would say something like, "see I told you he was town!" when he could very well be mafia.

Again, it's WIFOM but I see it as a scummy tell.

[Kishime]

@Kishime:

Please explain why you joined the LordChronos wagon.

As I said when I voted, to get reactions.

[Kishime]

So tell us what you learned from the reactions you got.

As I said before, Lord is probably town. Sin is irrational which may or may not be a scum tell but it's good enough for me to vote for him and see if anyone tries to defend him.

[Kishime]

What's your opinion of AGar and easjo?

I was really suspicious of AGar since he was supposedly posting on other threads but not here, but I agree with most of what he has said since he returned.

Easjo seemed very towny to me in the beginning but I could see her and Sin as a potential scum pair based on how she reacted to my vote.

[Kishime]

Look at Easjo in isolation. What do you see in her posts that makes her more/less likely scum?

Isolated from Sin, I have no problem with her.

[Kishime]

Lightwolf is possibly scum, but AGar is definatly scum.

vote: AGar

You realize this puts him at -1 right? Considering your lack of posts that makes you seem very opportunistic.

[Kishime]

My two suspects would be SinSpawn and easjo.

Sin hasn't provided anything in his posts but fluff.

I agree with him that Sin has posted a lot of nonsense and I am also suspicious of easjo, but for different reasons than he listed.

[Kishime]

Also could no one hammer until AGar posts a defense and a claim please.

If you really didn't want someone to hammer him why wouldn't you just unvote?

[Kishime]

Sin's own opinon isn't nonsense, its not great detail scum hunting. But it surely is not 'fluff' like AGar said. So again, since you aren't understanding my question point out exactly what of AGar's posts makes you think he is;

A) Town and
B) That you agree with him.

A. I never said I thought he was town. He's probably 2nd or 3rd on my list of possible scum.

B. I agree with him that Sin's posts are fluff and logically incorrect (not opinions). I pointed them out before.

[Kishime]

What reasons are those? From looking at your posts it seems the way easjo reacted to your vote on Sin is the reason. Is this correct?

I'm pretty sure this is the third time I've said this. Yes.

[Kishime]

Extra long posts denote trying to draw attention to others, mafia tactics 101.

Wrong.

Think about it, the mafia will most likely have one noob and one more experienced player.

Wrong.

Also I wont vote Chronos cause he seems too witty to be mafia.

This just doesn't even make sense.

1 and 3 are illogical and 2 is factually incorrect.

[Kishime]

That's 3 posts, you don't think its possible for a noob to get 2 things wrong? Don't forget this is a newbie game. More 'fluff' quotes please.

In the first day there is not going to be that much ammunition to use against someone, so even 3 is enough for me to be suspicious.

If you can find more than 3 comments that are illogical or wrong by anyone else, I will apologize for isolating Sin.

[Kishime]

Feel like the paranoia is a pretty good indicator of your newscuminess.

AGar's reason for hoping on the Lord wagon, this reason doesn't make any real sense.

Hopping around with suspicions and trying to paint players as one or the other (soft-rolefishing imo)

Soft-Rolefishing? He's just pulled that rubbish reason out of his ass, how is voting someone soft rolefishing?

Considering he's only had 3 posts all game, one of them being about how he would promise he would post and the other 2 including these red herrings I would say that AGar has played far more illogical.

Those are both pretty bad. I'll be willing to hammer AGar if enough of us agree on it.

Having said that, if he's town I will probably really be pushing for Sin tomorrow.

[Kishime]

Actually let me rephrase that.

If we lynch AGar, who are the likely targets for Day 2...

1. If he's town?

2. If he's mafia?

[Kishime]

Actually let me rephrase that.

If we lynch AGar, who are the likely targets for Day 2...

1. If he's town?

2. If he's mafia?

I would highly suggest nobody answer this.

Do you think it would give the mafia an easy target?

[Kishime]

Do you think it would give the mafia an easy target?

I don't think we should make their decision any easier.

Eh I guess it could help mafia or town depending on how you look at it.

Do you think I should put the final vote on AGar?

[Kishime]

This is a decision you have to make, not us. You shouldn't play mafia if your just going to do what other people tell you to do.

You also shouldn't hammer someone without giving people the chance to speak.

[Kishime]

This is a decision you have to make, not us. You shouldn't play mafia if your just going to do what other people tell you to do.

You also shouldn't hammer someone without giving people the chance to speak.

We've all spoke, and we've all placed our vote. If you're going to hammer him, do it. If you're not, than don't and make a case against someone else.

Kyle,

Why so eager to have AGar lynched?

I'd also like to know this. You come out of nowhere to put someone at -1.

[Kishime]

What do you have for us AGar?

[Kishime]

While we are waiting on AGar we can still be productive and continue working out who else is likely mafia.

Kishime wrote:
Actually let me rephrase that.

If we lynch AGar, who are the likely targets for Day 2...

1. If he's town?

2. If he's mafia?

Although this isn't the best way to do this, the idea behind it is good. I think we should all probably give the thread a quick re-read while waiting for AGar and work out who our biggest suspects are.

I think it's a good idea for everyone to think about who they would want to lynch in either scenario, but not to announce it to the entire group just yet.

[Kishime]

Anyway, please compare AGar here (scum) versus here (town).

tl;dr - As scum AGar avoids posting, while as town he is far more engaged.

I'm very close to hammering.

[Kishime]

Also, Kishime, you are quite quick to abandon your buddy after he has gotten so close to being lynched.

I'm pretty sure I voted for him twice already and each time it was the only vote on him.

[Kishime]

Also, Kishime, you are quite quick to abandon your buddy after he has gotten so close to being lynched.

I'm pretty sure I voted for him twice already and each time it was the only vote on him.

Of course, the first one of those votes was a random vote at the beginning of the game and the second one you jumped off of pretty quickly to go after Sin. So I really don't see those as meaning very much.

Fair enough. But me being willing to lynch AGar after having agreed with some of his points earlier also doesn't mean that we are scum partners.

[Kishime]

I guess I'll switch my vote to the other person who I think is scum.

Vote: Easjo682

[Kishime]

Kishime, you are being manipulated here, you seem townie to me where as the other two people with votes on me come off as scummy.

How am I towny?

[Kishime]

As I said before, I think sin and easjo are scum buddies.

[Kishime]

How am I towny?

its just the feeling i get from you

Are you trying to seduce me?

[Kishime]

To Eas:

And why don't you think Sin is scum?

[Kishime]

EBWOP

Just thought of something else. Kishime, if you think sin and easjo are scumbuddies, why were you willing to lynch AGar?

Because it's the first day and anyone could be scum.

[Kishime]

EBWOP

Just thought of something else. Kishime, if you think sin and easjo are scumbuddies, why were you willing to lynch AGar?

Because it's the first day and anyone could be scum.

Wow, that's a really crappy defense. Got a better reason for why you were willing to lynch AGar, other than "Well, you never know, he could be scum..."

What's wrong with that? You are 100% confident of who the two mafia are?

[Kishime]

I just reread the first few pages and AGar seemed even more suspicious than I remembered so...

Vote: AGar

[Kishime]

I just reread the first few pages and AGar seemed even more suspicious than I remembered so...

Vote: AGar

Jeez, Kishime, it is really hard to take your votes seriously when you bounce from person to person every day or so.

Meh. I'd be fine lynching any one of those three.

[Kishime]

I know you asked haylen, but if its 72h after a prod then he is up for replacement sometime in the next 36h, if my math is right.

Anyway, Kishime you have not sufficiently addressed any question asked of you, so as I see it, its your head for the block tomorrow.

Anyone have views on this?

You want to lynch me after I've accused you of being scum so many times? No way!

[Kishime]

My reasons for lynching tomorrow you are as follows.

1. You do not stand behind votes and change by the wind.

2. Most arguments you have made are flimsy at best.

3. You seem to have drawn no conclusions of your own and when those you defend are in peril you distance yourself and burn your bridges.


Now if agar gets replaced before a vote goes through and his replacement seems competent enough we can easily speed your death up to today, how about that?

1. Why wouldn't my votes change on the first day? It's the best way to get reactions.

2. I think your arguments are worse.

3. Who have I defended? Burn my bridges? What bridges?

I'm pretty sure you're the only person who has even accused me of being mafia so far.

[Kishime]

also talk about a player that loves to bandwagon here, kyle it seems you hop onto the end of a bandwagon, very scummy. you're the third to vote on me and the fourth on agar... whats going on here?

so I take it that you dont have anything to say on this then Kyle99?

Bandwagons aren't always bad, especially when their on scummy people.

Is this bandwagon a good one?

Vote: kyle99

[Kishime]

Um, Kishime, does that L-1 vote mean you are fine with lynching kyle?

I don't think anyone will pull the trigger, but if someone did I think it would give us good information for Day 2.

[Kishime]

Answer the question please.

I did. I wouldn't mind him getting lynched but I'm not super confident one way or the other.

[Kishime]

I did. I wouldn't mind him getting lynched but I'm not super confident one way or the other.

Sounds like you just want the day phase to end soon, this is indicative of both scum and power roles, however I think the former is much more likely as we don't even know if there are any power roles.

I'm beginning to think you are actually town because I don't think a mafia would have such a one track mind on someone they knew to be a townie.

[Kishime]

Kishime, if you aren't that confident in Kyle-scum, why did you place an L-1 vote on him?

If you had to be confident someone was scum to put them at L-1, nobody would ever get lynched.

[Kishime]

If you had to be confident someone was scum to put them at L-1, nobody would ever get lynched.

I find no logic behind this, your not convinced that kyle is scum? but you would lynch him anyway?

There are 2 out of 8 people who can be scum. There's no way I'm going to be 100% confident picking them and especially not on the first day.

Having said that, Kyle has done enough to warrant my vote.

[Kishime]

There are 2 out of 8 people who can be scum. There's no way I'm going to be 100% confident picking them and especially not on the first day.

Having said that, Kyle has done enough to warrant my vote.

What exactly has Kyle done to warrant your vote, but that leaves unconvinced as to whether he is scum?

For the record I'm not "convinced" anyone is scum, but I have suspicions.

His vote on AGar struck me as very opportunistic and his reasons for doing so were very weak. When someone comes out of lurking at puts someone at L-1 it seems like a newby scum mistake.

[Kishime]

I guess that's true, I didn't grasp that he was at L1.

If this is true, it is almost grounds for a lynch on its own.

I'm not saying that I think AGar is town, I just think that since he appears to have flaked from the site, we shouldn't lynch him until we get a replacement.

I can agree with this.

In terms of who's scummiest, my current suspect is Kishime. In 318, Kishime puts me at L1, but in 322, he says that he's "not super confident one way or the other". Putting someone at L1 without being even remotely sure that person is scum is a bad thing to do.

This is such an absurd strawman argument. You are saying not being "super confident" is the same as not being "remotely sure." I am not "super confident" you are scum, but I am certainly "remotely sure" that you are.

When SinSpawn begins to questions him about his vote, Kishime just tries to make him go away by saying "I'm begininning to think you are actually town".

SinSpawn questioned me about my vote many times before I started to think he was town. No matter what I do, he is probably going to think I'm scum (unless he's scum).

Also, in 331, he says about me that "When someone comes out of lurking at puts someone at L-1 it seems like a newby scum mistake." Sure, this is true, but I should also remind you that Kishime came out of lurking to put me at L1 aswell.

I came out of

lurking?

Are you serious?!

Whoever asked what the difference was that makes Kyle's L-1 vote more suspicious than mine, my answer is that I have been jumping around and accusing different people all game to try to get reactions and information. Kyle went from being relatively quiet to jumping on a vote when it seemed like someone was close to a lynch for being inactive. His illogical defenses also do not help his case.

[Kishime]

Kyle very clearly knew that AGar was at L-1. He was of the opinion that we should lynch him. Saying now that he didn't know this seems to me like he is scum trying to justify to SaintKerrigan what he has done, but failing.

Agreed. I'm more than okay with lynching Kyle now.

[Kishime]

I guess that's true, I didn't grasp that he was at L1.

This is just ridiculous.

See here

This is a decision you have to make, not us. You shouldn't play mafia if your just going to do what other people tell you to do.

You also shouldn't hammer someone without giving people the chance to speak.

We've all spoke, and we've all placed our vote. If you're going to hammer him, do it. If you're not, than don't and make a case against someone else.

Kyle,

Why so eager to have AGar lynched?

I'd also like to know this. You come out of nowhere to put someone at -1.

I already stated my reasons why I think AGar is scum. Why do you not want to lynch AGar?

Kyle very clearly knew that AGar was at L-1. He was of the opinion that we should lynch him. Saying now that he didn't know this seems to me like he is scum trying to justify to SaintKerrigan what he has done, but failing.

This point isn't getting nearly enough attention from people. Come on guys!

[Kishime]

I guess that's true, I didn't grasp that he was at L1.

Alright, I'm at L2, so I figure the time for this post is now. One of the main things people are accusing me of was me putting AGar at L1. I really don't see how this is that scummy, and I think other people have certaintly done scummier things. I knew no one was going to hammer AGar until he either started posting or got replaced, and I was trying to get AGar to say something.

..............

[Kishime]

And now we play the waiting game...

[Kishime]

Can you both stop saying who you want to lynch tomorrow? It's just making the night kill decision that much easier for the mafia.

[Kishime]

Hammer without a claim is a no-no.

Vote: pwnman

[Kishime]

Anyone have any thoughts on why the mafia killed SK?

[Kishime]

Probably it was one of the people towards the bottom of Sk'scumlist.

Good thing you're #3 from the top.

[Kishime]

LC, did you expect to be night killed last night? I figured you'd likely be the choice.

[Kishime]

LC, did you expect to be night killed last night? I figured you'd likely be the choice.

I certainly thought there was a possibility of it happening.

Why did you expect me to die?

Everyone seems to agree that you are the most pro-town. Isn't that normally who the mafia would want to target?

[Kishime]

Also I realise SK was on me at the end of the day, but the mafia is trying to frame me.

Who do you think the two mafia are?

[Kishime]

I have a bad feeling that pwnman is going to end up just like kyle. Bad logic, but still town.

[Kishime]

I have a bad feeling that pwnman is going to end up just like kyle. Bad logic, but still town.

Do you still feel that SinSpawn is scum, then?

Not confident either way.

[Kishime]

Until I noticed that. I hate being in the hammer position, but that screams even more scum to me.

vote Kyle

I guess that's true, I didn't grasp that he was at L1.

These statements conflict.

Whoa. One of those was said by Kyle and the other was said by pwn. Let's not start misquoting people here.

[Kishime]

Unvote

before someone hammers again..

[Kishime]

Whoa. One of those was said by Kyle and the other was said by pwn. Let's not start misquoting people here.

They were BOTH said by Pwn posts; 380 and 387

It's a direct quote of Kyle from post 335. He just didn't use quote tags in 387.

[Kishime]

That isn't AtE. It's just a way to prove I'm telling the truth

That doesn't prove anything.

[Kishime]

Eh. Anyone object to me hammering? Given his logic so far he's not going to help us even if he's town and no mafia in their right mind is gonna kill him.

[Kishime]

Well if you're gonna lynch a claimed townie, we know who the scum are.

McG/SinSpawn or SinSpawn/Kishime

This is just the worst logic ever.

[Kishime]

I don't know yet, but I am going to slow down a little bit, it's too much of a gamble to vote him off so quick. He kinda seems like VI. He also gave up too easy, but he is still my number 1 suspect.

I have to agree with you here. Although he's made some terrible arguments, there's a strong possibility he's still town.

[Kishime]

sounds like you're just backing yourself up incase he flips town there mcgriddle

And it sounds like you are setting up an easy lynch target for day 3 if pwn flips town.

[Kishime]

Everyone and their mom thinks LC is town. There is no way the mafia wouldn't kill him one of the past two nights.

Vote: LordChronos

[Kishime]

Wait, wait, wait. You are voting me because you think I am town? What is up with that?

I think the mafia would have killed you if you were really town.

Do you have any better ideas of who to lynch?

[Kishime]

Did you think that Regfan was town?

Personally I thought Regfan looked more town than LordChornos.

Why?

[Kishime]

unvote

[Kishime]

wow, such bad reasoning there kishime and sinspawn voting for someone because you think they're town?

I don't think LC is any more town or mafia than the rest of you. The fact that EVERYONE ELSE seems to think that he's town means that the mafia would most likely kill him off one of the past two nights. They didnt. He's mafia.

The only reason I unvoted was because I didn't want you quick hammer and end the game. Given your lame response it either means:

1. You're LC's partner.
2. You're not very smart.
3. You're playing dumb to try to trick us.

I'm gonna go with 1 for now.

Vote: LordChronos

[Kishime]

Well now we know this.

If easjo is mafia, LC is mafia because she didn't hammer when she had the chance.

Whichever of eas and McG is the remaining town, don't you see the reasoning behind our vote for LC? The mafia usually kills whoever is seen as the most "towny" so they can leave behind townies that people are willing to lynch the next day.

LC has certainly had good posts and most of what he says makes sense, but that in no way means he couldn't be mafia. If you are so convinced LC is town, convince me with actual evidence.

[Kishime]

McGriddle,

It is up to you. Who do you find scummier, me or SinSpawn?

Whoa whoa. Looks like someone is panicking and forcing McG to vote earlier than he needs to. That would be a scummy tell, no? McG, since you have all the power right now I suggest you don't vote until enough evidence has been put forth. I'm in no rush.

On a side note, I really hope McG isn't mafia because if he is this game is over.

[Kishime]

how can I convince you of actual evidence when you are going to discredit things, you already havee with a post like '

LC has

certainly had good posts

and

most of what he says makes sense

, but that in

no way means he couldn't be mafia

. If you are so convinced LC is town, convince me with actual evidence.

if you're so convinced he's not you show me evidence.
How do I not know that you and sin aren't mafia, hell you could've planned this, leaving LC around, then saying 'he must be mafia because the mafia didn't kill him' knowing that it could sway me or McGriddle to lynch.

The parts you bold in no way point to LC being town. LC is a human being with a certain level of logic. Since he uses good logic in his posts, people haven't been suspicious of him. If he pulls a mafia role he doesn't suddenly lose all ability to form a coherent thought.

Show you my evidence for why he's not mafia? I just did. He wouldn't be alive if he was town because if you were to rank everyone 1-9 with towniest being 1 he would have been 1 or 2 on Day 1.

The second part of that is WIFOM nonsense that I have no way to prove or disprove. It would be like me saying how do I know you and LC arent mafia trying to say that I'm mafia trying to pin LC as mafia since I... and it goes on and on and on forever.

[Kishime]

how can I convince you of actual evidence when you are going to discredit things, you already havee with a post like '

LC has

certainly had good posts

and

most of what he says makes sense

, but that in

no way means he couldn't be mafia

. If you are so convinced LC is town, convince me with actual evidence.

if you're so convinced he's not you show me evidence.
How do I not know that you and sin aren't mafia, hell you could've planned this, leaving LC around, then saying 'he must be mafia because the mafia didn't kill him' knowing that it could sway me or McGriddle to lynch.

The parts you bold in no way point to LC being town. LC is a human being with a certain level of logic. Since he uses good logic in his posts, people haven't been suspicious of him. If he pulls a mafia role he doesn't suddenly lose all ability to form a coherent thought.

Show you my evidence for why he's not mafia? I just did. He wouldn't be alive if he was town because if you were to rank everyone 1-9 with towniest being 1 he would have been 1 or 2 on Day 1.

The second part of that is WIFOM nonsense that I have no way to prove or disprove. It would be like me saying how do I know you and LC arent mafia trying to say that I'm mafia trying to pin LC as mafia since I... and it goes on and on and on forever.

1. So, Kishime, what happens in a game with three people who everyone thinks is town on Day 3? Can the mafia have killed them all, or will one still be alive?

2. If those are not town-tells, what are?

3. Well, your argument against me is bigtime WIFOM as well. As easjo said, we can go back and forth all day over whether the mafia were framing me or not.

1. This is completely irrelevant. There were 6 people to choose from yesterday and you were the towniest according to most people. There weren't 6 equally towny people yesterday.

2. Beats the hell out of me. If it was that black and white what is stopping the mafia from doing nothing but "town-tells?" What do you think town tells are? The ones that conveniently apply to you this game?

3. By that logic, everything is WIFOM. Of course the mafia COULD have set you up like this, but it's more likely that you are mafia and therefore can't be night killed. Your conspiracy theory is pretty weak.

[Kishime]

McGriddle,

It is up to you. Who do you find scummier, me or SinSpawn?

I'm going to go back to this.

It seems that in his panic of being discovered as scum, LC has let slip that he KNOWS McG is town. I was still somewhat frightened that McG was scum and would hammer vote whoever was town, but LC doesn't show that fear and only tries to manipulate McG to vote for Sin.

Now THAT's a scum tell!

[Kishime]

so are you gonna respond to my lastest post or not?

I will gladly dissect your post to lead the town to victory.

you are doing the exact same thing as me, those bolded parts were for demonstrating the flaws in your thinking, you said I could prove LC town when you say hes been a good poster and what hes says makes sence but then you simply add that, that doesn't mean hes not mafia, which means any post I drag up you could easily discredit with, "well mafia could do that"

Are run on sentences mafia tells?

Mafia could do anything. The question is, is mafia more likely to do something than town? Are you implying that the town is more likely to produce posts that are logical than mafia is? I've played enough games where some moron townie got himself lynched by making illogical posts to know this isn't true.

as for the WIFOM, yeah i guess you're right there but that doesnt mean anything,

So when I'm right (logical) in my posts it doesn't mean anything, but when LC is right (logical) it means he's town. GOT IT!

I think you're mafia and you didn't kill off LC for some reason, and thats the best reason I can think of, either that or you saw Regfan as a bigger threat

If I was mafia LC would have been dead the first day. No way to prove this but it's true.

How is Regfan a bigger threat? Did he vote for me? I honestly don't remember.

[Kishime]

Ok, I did a read-through, and I had this thought constantly running through my head: why aren't there more votes on Easjo682? She hasn't posted much, and what she has posted hasn't been much. Classic scum behavior, in my opinion.

Vote: Easjo682.

Player analysis forthcoming, when I get the time. I'm afraid I don't have it right now.

I wouldn't say she hasn't posted much, but I do agree that she hasn't posted a lot of content.

Also, when she does post content, she often contradicts herself and changes sides quickly.

Just noticed this. SK was night killed soon after this I believe.

Hey LC, since...

2. No, actually. I think that town tells are things such as not active lurking, making reasoned posts that contribute to the discussion at hand, bringing up accusations/points against other players that are supported by what they have done, etc.

... you think active lurking is a scum tell, and you accused Easjo of that in the post quoted above, you won't have any problem switching your vote to Easjo right?

If you'd like, I can quote some other posts where you say Easjo has been active lurking.

[Kishime]

Kishime, you are being manipulated here, you seem townie to me where as the other two people with votes on me come off as scummy.

How am I towny?

its just the feeling i get from you

This was a while ago when easjo had some pressure on her and I put her at L-2. Seems like another scum slip up because scum would know that I was town. Quite the reason she has there for calling me town.

Hey easjo, are you still getting that "feeling" from me?

[Kishime]

so what now it's a crime to have an opinion that can change?

You're focusing on the wrong part. There's nothing wrong with changing your opinion on people's roles. You pretty much have to in this game.

The bad part is where you said I was town because you had a "feeling" about it. Pretty weak.

[Kishime]

Well, there was a cop flip in the day 1 lynch.

Okay, then I am going to

Vote: LordChronos

Man I really hope I was right.

[Kishime]

The bad part is where you said I was town because you had a "feeling" about it. Pretty weak.

you didnt have a problem with it then..

Sure I did. I was suspicious of Reg when he said I was "towny" too. I have no idea how people get these "reads" so early in the game. I think Kyle said something really stupid after that so I forgot about you and focused on him.

[Kishime]

So Eas are you going to make us wait a few days to lynch you or do you wanna just save us all the time and throw in the towel right now?

[Kishime]

umm, shouldn't we wait until we find out what side LC is on, the game could've finished although I imagine you'd be gloating right now if that was the case.

Everyone besides Sin has posted already since the hammer so If LC was town atleast one of you, mcg or myself would have already been gloating. LC also probably would have made a "I'm town" post after he realized he was dead.

The fact that you ignore the above makes you look even scummier.

[Kishime]

At this point if Sin is mafia he deserves the win.

Vote: easjo682

[Kishime]

I'm the doctor! please don't do this, I didn't reveal I was doctor earlier cause I had no need to! please don't kill me the mafia will win!

Do you expect this to hold any weight?

1. Nobody was saved any night
2. If you are a mafia goon you know that there is no doctor based on setup and can easily claim this without worry of a counter claim

[Kishime]

Sin are you retarded? seriously

[Kishime]

I'm just going to consider myself the winner of this game. I can't believe how dumb Sin is.

[Kishime]

And did anyone actually think LC wasn't the most "pro-town?"

[Kishime]

From the mafia qt.

easjo682 27
02-24-2010 09:07 AM ET (US)

"lets kill regfan, I've wanted to see him dead for a while, nothing against him, just I think if he uses his head he might get somewhere with the catching of us, if I do happen to get lynched

at least we know you are town enough to pull it off that you'll get a townie lynched the next day.

"

Even though town still lost I'm gonna have to pull out a big smug for this one.

[Kishime]

From the mafia qt.

easjo682 27
02-24-2010 09:07 AM ET (US)

"lets kill regfan, I've wanted to see him dead for a while, nothing against him, just I think if he uses his head he might get somewhere with the catching of us, if I do happen to get lynched

at least we know you are town enough to pull it off that you'll get a townie lynched the next day.

"

Even though town still lost I'm gonna have to pull out a big smug for this one.

Yep, we really thought you guys would go for easjo on Day 3.

Well, if it makes you feel any better I thought we would go for her on Day 4.