Newbie 907 - The Road Back to Magic World, Game Over

[LordChronos]

Hi all, I am LordChronos or Chronos or LC. This will be my second game of forum mafia.

Ok then, let's start out with a random vote.

Vote: Kishime

because it is a weird name.

Wooo! A post! ^.^ ~ Hayl

[LordChronos]

I propose that if I do that, you find someone with a weird name to vote to join in the fun.

[LordChronos]

Ok then,

Vote: SinSpawn9000

[LordChronos]

EBWOP:

Haylen, do I need to add an unvote now? I promise I will do it if/when I change votes in the future.

I dont require unvoting. Some mods do, though, so beware. ~ Hayl

[LordChronos]

Come on guys, let's get some more activity going on here.

Speaking of more activity:

Papa Zito, is there any reason you voted someone who already had a vote on them, as opposed to someone who didn't?

[LordChronos]

Ok, I can understand Zito putting another vote on SinSpawn to get a reaction from him. (I assume this was his reason)

But Lightwolfj, you do realize that you just put SinSpawn at L-2, right? It seems to me that there is no need for anyone to be at L-2 this early on day 1, so I am going to unvote.

Unvote

[LordChronos]

EPWOP again

Part of the reason I am so upset is because on Day 1 of my last game, a pair of townies who didn't pay enough attention to the number of votes on a person ended up quicklynching them. Personally, I would far rather wait to lynch someone so as to gain more time to get information than to quicklynch them.

[LordChronos]

Hi there easjo. Yay for more posters.

[LordChronos]

And that isn't at all an OMGUS vote, SinSpawn?

[LordChronos]

Think about it, the mafia will most likely have one noob and one more experienced player.

Plus I am tired, going to bed, and may be delusional at this late hour.

Actually, statistically speaking, if Haylen did her job and randomized the roles, everyone is equally likely to be mafia. (Although, I have been reading a lot of games where a scum IC or SE did a great job fooling everyone and ended up winning. For that matter, that was what happened in my first game.)

[LordChronos]

FoS Lightwolfj

for just omgus'ing without any discussion. I'd like to hear from everyone else before I place my vote.

Currently I am getting a town vibe of Sin and null vibes of everyone else. I'll be back later to see if the others have posted.

Regfan, why do you feel Sin is town? His attack on Papa Zito seemed either a) OMGUS or b) really poorly reasoned. It seems a little hypocritical of you to criticize Lightwolfj for OMGUS voting and then say that Sin, who also OMGUS voted, seems town.

[LordChronos]

First off, my vote on Sin was joking around with him. Second, I believe that generally, mafia partners do know each other day 1. Papa Zito, as the IC could you confirm that?

The fact that Sin's vote was the first on Papa does not absolve it of being OMGUS.

Quoting is done by inclosing the quoted text in ["quote"][/"quote"] tags, without the quotation marks.

I fail to see how that post makes Sin not mafia. Not very knowledgeable about statistics perhaps, but not necessarily town either.

[LordChronos]

Ok, I can understand Zito putting another vote on SinSpawn to get a reaction from him. (I assume this was his reason)

Why did you ask the question if you already knew the answer?

Mostly confirmation. Also, I was trying to get some more discussion going.

[LordChronos]

Mostly confirmation. Also, I was trying to get some more discussion going.

Right-o.

unvote: SinSpawn9000
vote: LordChronos

AGar, get in here. I know who our scum are already.

What about that makes me scum? The fact that I like to be sure of things?

[LordChronos]

Vote: LordChronos

Feel like the paranoia is a pretty good indicator of your newscuminess.

When was I paranoid? I didn't like Lightwolf talking Sin to L-2, but as I said, that was influenced by a similar thing happening in my first gme.

[LordChronos]

EPWOP:
Change talking in the above post to taking

[LordChronos]

/vote: Regfan

because he seems to know more than he is letting on to...

Why do you think so?

well although his first post looks like its making assumptions it also has an air of 'I know this to be true'

That is ... an interesting way to read his post, to say the least. Personally, I think it was more of a gut feeling post. His instinct based on my/SinSpawn's conversations thus far was that Sin was townish. This reading is backed up at least in part by his reply to me in post #26, which basically says that Sin's post seems not scummy.

@Kishime, Lightwolf

While I understand that the game has only been going for about a day and a half, everyone else here but you two has made some kind of contribution. Pretty much all either of you have done is jump in with a random vote. No pressing for opinions, no looking for weaknesses, no nothing. Just the random votes.

@Papa Zito
You know, your accusations would be much more convincing if they weren't just: "A quote makes me think he is scum". When I asked why you felt I was scummy, you just said

it's a combination of things.

None of which I want to go into at the moment.

This seems a tad scummy to me, just accusing a player and then refusing to say why.

[LordChronos]

@Regfan

I was just looking back at some of your posts and I noticed that in your alignment chart post you put Kishime as town. Why is that? Kishime has done almost nothing so far in the game other than random vote.

@easjo

because it does currently equal a bandwagon, if circumstances arose where another vote or two were placed on the same person I would take back my vote unless I was certain without a doubt that the person was scum.

Is that something that will be true on future days as well, or just today?

[LordChronos]

Haylen,

It has been nearly three days since lightwolfj posted, with no notice of a V/LA. When will he be prodded?

Sorting all prods and vote counts out now. Please be aware that I'm incredibly tired at weekends due to working 8 hr shifts both days, getting up at 5am and being in full time education too. I can handle everything, just weekends are a very hectic time. ~ Hayl

[LordChronos]

UNVOTE

I am now highly suspicious of both regfan and kishime.

Regfan for tossing out that list and defending kishime so outright for a "gut feeling".

Kishime for trying far too hard to distance himself from regfan so far as to vote him.

This stinks of mafia trying to look like they are not working together.

I voted for him because if he's mafia he knows that I'm town. Otherwise he shouldn't have really had a read on me.

I don't know, I'm starting to get a read on you. (Hint: It isn't the one Regfan is getting. You are way overreacting if you are town!)

[LordChronos]

3) LordChronos, you seem to have died down as the game progressed, if you had to place a vote right now who would it be on?

If I absolutely had to place a vote right now, I would probably vote either Lightwolf, to try to get him to post more, or AGar for just jumping on me because Papa Zito said so, without giving a reason.

Would you mind answering that question yourself?

@easjo

Right now I think Regfan is the most town-looking. He is scum-hunting and not overly paranoid or lurky. Most scummy would be AGar - he hasn't said much, jumped on me without really explaining himself, keeps promising to make posts but hasn't.

[LordChronos]

Would you mind answering that question yourself?

It would be on Agar, I just noticed him on a little while ago, he posted in another thread but not this one despite his continuous promises that he will make a long post here.

That is interesting. In my last game, RayFrost did that a lot, and he turned out to be scum. Just something to keep in mind, though hopefully AGar will get in here soon.

[LordChronos]

This seems a tad scummy to me, just accusing a player and then refusing to say why.

Is it? What makes you think a scum player is more likely to play that way than a town one?

Would you please enlighten us about who the scum are then?

Papa Zito - Why is Lord scum?

5) Papa Zito, earlier you said you know the mafia, please enlighten us who they are.

Well, I'm voting one of them.

Stuff about not telling scum how he identifies them

I think a scum player is more likely to play that way cause it helps them not have to do as much talking and reduces the chance of being caught in a contradiction.

The second part of your post is absolutely ridiculous. According to your logic, we should all just vote and hope that we manage to 1. Actually lynch someone, and 2. Lynch scum. If we don't communicate to each other why the people we are suspicious of seem like scum, we will not be able to agree to lynch someone.

On the whole bandwagon issue:
There have been three bandwagons so far. The first one came about 3 hours after the game started and was on someone who barely posts and did not react to that wagon. Nothing gained there. The second one, if you can call it that, came against me when you said I was scum and AGar jumped on. That one has produced the result of the rest of us inquiring into your/AGar's motives. The third one has been against Regfan, who has calmly defended himself. Again, it didn't go anywhere. I do think easjo is getting a tad overworked on the issue of too many votes, though.

[LordChronos]

@Town: The whole fear of bandwagons, btw, is entirely counterproductive. We need bandwagons if we're going to get anywhere.

I agree with this. We need some reactions.

Vote: LordChronos

@Kishime,

Did you have anything to add to the "LC is scum" argument from Papa Zito, or are you just following his lead and voting on me? You may notice that I have reacted a couple of times now to his attacks on me.

@Kyle99, Regfan

What are your thoughts on Papa Zito's continued refusal to share his reasons for going after me?

@AGar

Where is that post you keep promising?

[LordChronos]

I think a scum player is more likely to play that way cause it helps them not have to do as much talking and reduces the chance of being caught in a contradiction.

Townies contradict themselves too. But that's beside the point.

Dig deeper, LordChronos. Forge your intellect into a shining dagger of truth. Pierce my posts with the force of your reason. You said yourself that pushing your wagon has focused attention on me. Is this in Zitoscum's best interest? Could Zitotown have a reason for doing this?

The second part of your post is absolutely ridiculous. ... If we don't communicate to each other why the people we are suspicious of seem like scum, we will not be able to agree to lynch someone.

We're lynching someone today, even if it has to be me. No worries in that quarter.

Um, I think you have got me there. I can't think of a reason for Zitoscum to want more focus on him.

I do think you missed the point of that second quote. The point I was trying to make is that it becomes far more difficult to convince other people to vote someone if you don't share reasons. For example, say one of us was to vote AGar right now and wouldn't say why but just said he was scum. Would you switch your vote to AGar? Would you ask why the voter voted?

[LordChronos]

I do think you missed the point of that second quote. The point I was trying to make is that it becomes far more difficult to convince other people to vote someone if you don't share reasons. For example, say one of us was to vote AGar right now and wouldn't say why but just said he was scum. Would you switch your vote to AGar? Would you ask why the voter voted?

But if you say why you voted for someone the mafia will pick up on that and not do those actions anymore. Sometimes it's better to not reveal your whole hand until necessary.

When is it "necessary", then?

[LordChronos]

I do think you missed the point of that second quote. The point I was trying to make is that it becomes far more difficult to convince other people to vote someone if you don't share reasons. For example, say one of us was to vote AGar right now and wouldn't say why but just said he was scum. Would you switch your vote to AGar? Would you ask why the voter voted?

But if you say why you voted for someone the mafia will pick up on that and not do those actions anymore. Sometimes it's better to not reveal your whole hand until necessary.

When is it "necessary", then?

I assume when you are confident enough with the information you have collected to make a solid case and point out the scum.

So you agree with me that Papa Zito should give his reasons for attacking me, since he has felt it necessary to indict me as scum?

[LordChronos]

So you agree with me that Papa Zito should give his reasons for attacking me, since he has felt it necessary to indict me as scum?

I assume at this point he doesn't really have much information, so no I do not agree.

Then am I correct in assuming that you are voting me solely to get a reaction rather than because you agree with Zito that I am scummy?

[LordChronos]

The Malteser Bunny! Vote Count

SinSpawn9000: Lightwolfj
Regfan: Kyle99
LordChronos: Papa Zito, AGar, Kishime


Not Voting: Regfan, LordChronos, SinSpawn9000, Easjo682

Deadline falls 3 weeks from now on Thursday the 25th February at 9pm, England time. With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Lots of Love,
Hayl xxx

Then am I correct in assuming that you are voting me solely to get a reaction rather than because you agree with Zito that I am scummy?

Well if I told you that I wouldn't get much of a reaction.

You'll just have to wait and see and hope two more people don't vote for you.

Aren't you getting a reaction now? The second part of that sounds as though you are willing to lynch me now. Is there a particular reason for that, or am I taking your post the wrong way?

[LordChronos]

If there's any reason at all behind the vote, I'd rather you or whoever voted says it out loud. Otherwise no one else will be able to understand and possibly follow the vote.

I disagree for reasons I'm not willing to say yet.

Where's Agar at?

This is precisely what SinSpawn, Regfan, and I are complaining about. You make these statements, refuse to back them up, and then try to lead us away.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: Kishime

.

You are being obtuse and unhelpful to town. You are blindly following Papa Zito in voting me. You are refusing to even admit that or to give any other reason for voting me. You even refuse to tell us why you won't tell us.

[LordChronos]

You are being obtuse and unhelpful to town.

I'm trying to figure out who the two mafia members are. How am I not being helpful to town?

Well, I'm pretty sure I just said how in my last post, but I'll say it again. You are refusing to give reasons for voting people. You won't explain yourself when pressed. You haven't done anything to scum hunt besides make an opportunistic vote on Regfan and argue for half a page with me.

That clear things up for you?

[LordChronos]

But how many other people will believe that you are actually onto a mafia if you won't say why you think they are mafia?

[LordChronos]

But how many other people will believe that you are actually onto a mafia if you won't say why you think they are mafia?

If I knew who both of the mafia were, I'd explain why.

First, please actually answer the questions I ask. Second, if you had been refusing to give any reasoning up to that point, why would everyone else believe you then? Third, the only way to

know

that someone is mafia is to either be mafia yourself or to be a cop and investigate them. Fourth, Papa Zito has claimed he knows who both of the mafia are, so why aren't you asking him to explain why?

Keeping things from the mafia that would help them more than the town is helpful to the town as a whole.

How on earth is it helpful to the mafia to have people build cases on them!! The more that people build against them, the more likely they will be lynched, which I don't think would be in their best interests.

[LordChronos]

This is precisely what SinSpawn, Regfan, and I are complaining about. You make these statements, refuse to back them up, and then try to lead us away.

I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Kishime.

Although 'these statements' are not beneficial to the town, it doesn't make Kishime mafia either. Considering he hasn't had much experience him playing badly is not a strong scum tell.

Ok then, can you give me an example of a strong scum tell, preferably one that has occurred in this game. Also, just because Kishime is newer doesn't mean that poor play (if he is town) can be written off as newbie town and not as a scum tell.

[LordChronos]

Oh, and AGar should post a content-filled post soon or else I say we lynch him. Active lurking kills newbie games.

Wouldn't it be better to replace him than to lynch him just cause he was lurking? Although in my last game someone was active lurking and turned out to be scum. Also, would you want to lynch lightwolf, who has posted once, which was a random vote?

@Zito

You have a point about other people's reactions. I really don't know why you would do both of those things. I guess I would have to conclude from that that you really aren't trying to push my lynch?

@easjo

What are your thoughts on the issues that have come up today?

[LordChronos]

@Papa Zito,

I think that you have a point there. Your current actions do seem foolish for scum.

@All,

AGar has still not posted, though he has posted in other games. Do we lynch him for lurking, or do we see if we can get him replaced?

[LordChronos]

I never promised a "long post", so don't misrepresent me. I promised activity. I went through a flurry of life things I had to deal with this past weekend, most of which started right as this game started. So yeah, I had some activity issues.

My two suspects would be SinSpawn and easjo.

Sin hasn't provided anything in his posts but fluff. Call it hypocritical, but I was just posting to let you know I had no intention of replacing out and I was going to get here. Life takes a toll every so often. This happens to be one of those times. Sorry. Absences aren't characteristic of me.

easjo is just waffling on his suspicions and accusations. He's going back and forth on how he feels about certain things. Not really committing to anything and fencesitting big time.

AGar, if something like this happens again where you have to deal with a whole bunch of real life issues at once, could you please say something to that effect? I don't have a problem at all with that as a reason for lack of posting.

One point about easjo, she is a girl. I went back and re-read some of her posts and you have a very good point here. I think probably the number one example of these contradictions was when she first said that she didn't care about Zito not giving reasons and then voted him for not giving reasons.

As far as Sin goes, I don't know. Yes, he hasn't contributed alot, but I think a lot of that is just being new. To be perfectly honest, kyle99 hasn't said/done much either, although he has definitely been more reliable and has done less of the hopping around.

Could you clarify how what Sin has done so far is soft-rolefishing?

[LordChronos]

1. Either it is someone who thinks too much of themselves or someone who wants other people to think more of them.

2. I forgot about the randomization of roles, I have never played at mafia scum before. Going after this is a bad excuse of an attack.

3. You obviously do no understand humor.

4. Maybe I should not have taken you off my list, you and Agar are now high on my list but I am still not convinced on the innocence of zito.


HEY LOOK I CAN MAKE LISTS TOO

Mafia

Papa Zito
Kishime
Agar

1. Your either or denotes that Kishime is correct that that is not a scum tell.

2. You are correct that that is not an attack against you.

3. You should be more clear.

4. There are only 2 scum, so your list of mafia is by definition wrong.

[LordChronos]

You're right, I am fence sitting, because right now I'm not 100% sure on who the scum
are so I'm hoping around trying to give my opinion of the time and situation.

Easjo, as I said to someone earlier, you will never be 100% sure of who the scum are unless you are a cop who gets a guilty or unless you are a mafia. You will eventually have to commit to a position, regardless of whether you can't be a hundred percent certain you are right.

[LordChronos]

@SinSpawn9000

Why is AGar high on your list?

[LordChronos]

Haylen, can we get a vote count soon?

[LordChronos]

Oh, and to add what I said, if AGar is scum, than Kishime is also scum.

Why is Kishime scum if AGar is?

[LordChronos]

Also could no one hammer until AGar posts a defense and a claim please.

Wasn't planning on it.

[LordChronos]

My two suspects would be SinSpawn and easjo.

Sin hasn't provided anything in his posts but fluff.

I agree with him that Sin has posted a lot of nonsense and I am also suspicious of easjo, but for different reasons than he listed.

What reasons are those? From looking at your posts it seems the way easjo reacted to your vote on Sin is the reason. Is this correct?

[LordChronos]

Actually let me rephrase that.

If we lynch AGar, who are the likely targets for Day 2...

1. If he's town?

2. If he's mafia?

You know, Kishime, this almost sounds like you are mafia trying to find out who we will go after on Day 2 so you know who not to kill.

[LordChronos]

This is a decision you have to make, not us. You shouldn't play mafia if your just going to do what other people tell you to do.

You also shouldn't hammer someone without giving people the chance to speak.

We've all spoke, and we've all placed our vote. If you're going to hammer him, do it. If you're not, than don't and make a case against someone else.

Kyle,

Why so eager to have AGar lynched?

[LordChronos]

I already stated my reasons why I think AGar is scum. Why do you not want to lynch AGar?

I haven't said I don't think we should lynch AGar. However, I would prefer to wait for a claim so that we don't accidentally lynch a PR.

[LordChronos]

I'm very close to hammering.

Its much better if you wait for;

1) A defense by AGar

2) A claim by AGar

3) Sin to have a full re-read and post a player analysis.

On 3) you do mean SaintKerrigan, not Sin, right?

[LordChronos]

Also, Kishime, you are quite quick to abandon your buddy after he has gotten so close to being lynched.

I'm pretty sure I voted for him twice already and each time it was the only vote on him.

Of course, the first one of those votes was a random vote at the beginning of the game and the second one you jumped off of pretty quickly to go after Sin. So I really don't see those as meaning very much.

[LordChronos]

Fair enough. But me being willing to lynch AGar after having agreed with some of his points earlier also doesn't mean that we are scum partners.

True. Just out of curiosity, which of AGar's points do you not agree with?

[LordChronos]

@metagamey people

Has Agar lurked or posted in other games since we put him to L-1 and told him to defend or die?

Not that I can tell. Forum search isn't working, so I don't know for sure.

[LordChronos]

Personally, what I would really like is for a) AGar to get in here and b)SaintKerrigan to finish his re-read and to post his thoughts/player analysis.

[LordChronos]

Ok, I did a read-through, and I had this thought constantly running through my head: why aren't there more votes on Easjo682? She hasn't posted much, and what she has posted hasn't been much. Classic scum behavior, in my opinion.

Vote: Easjo682.

Player analysis forthcoming, when I get the time. I'm afraid I don't have it right now.

I wouldn't say she hasn't posted much, but I do agree that she hasn't posted a lot of content. Also, when she does post content, she often contradicts herself and changes sides quickly.

[LordChronos]

On the subject of people not being very active, we have kyle99.
What's up, kyle?

Vote:kyle99

[LordChronos]

Also, @Lord, why did you vote me for being unactive? I just find this odd, especially considering there's a lot more unactive people than me.

Well, you haven't done alot, and have only posted in bursts either when you were attacked or when you were jumping on AGar's bandwagon. And surprise, surprise, when I vote you to get some pressure on you to come out and talk a little, what do you but bandwagon.

[LordChronos]

It looks like easjo is looking pretty scummy. She voted Papa Zito 3 days ago but never gave ANY reasoning for that vote, plus she wasn't voting for AGar when he was at L1 yet kept pushing for his lynch, almost like she didn't want to be blamed when he flipped town.

unvote, vote easjo

.

Just thought of something. Kyle, if you feel easjo was scummy for voting Zito 3 days ago without reasons and for trying to lynch AGar without being on the wagon, why did you wait until now to say anything? Those events happened a few days ago now.

[LordChronos]

(In relation to replacements)

What I mean to say is that I want to either see his defense or what the replacement has to say before I decide if I should change my vote or not, plus I am not about to go back on my stance that I wont vote easjo today, at least not yet.

Sin,

Why are you so against voting easjo? Zito and SK are correct that she hasn't posted much content.

[LordChronos]

Kishime, you are being manipulated here, you seem townie to me where as the other two people with votes on me come off as scummy.

Since Kishime is asking about the first part of this, I'll ask about the other. Why do you feel SaintKerrigan is scummy? (SK, I know you aren't voting here anymore, but you are the only one she could mean)

@SaintKerrigan

I am going to second Regfan in asking for that player analysis you said you would do.

On kyle99. Well, the reasons I gave when he questioned me for voting him were pretty similar to yours, so you aren't they only one with that impression of him. Kishime, regfan, SinSpawn, easjo, what do you guys think?

[LordChronos]

As I said before, I think sin and easjo are scum buddies.

Kishime, what makes you think this? What precisely have they done that makes them look like scumbuddies? And would you please answer my question about kyle99?

[LordChronos]

EBWOP

Just thought of something else. Kishime, if you think sin and easjo are scumbuddies, why were you willing to lynch AGar?

[LordChronos]

I just reread the first few pages and AGar seemed even more suspicious than I remembered so...

Vote: AGar

Jeez, Kishime, it is really hard to take your votes seriously when you bounce from person to person every day or so.

[LordChronos]

Haylen,

When does AGar get replaced?

[LordChronos]

Um, Kishime, does that L-1 vote mean you are fine with lynching kyle?

[LordChronos]

Answer the question please.

[LordChronos]

There are 2 out of 8 people who can be scum. There's no way I'm going to be 100% confident picking them and especially not on the first day.

Having said that, Kyle has done enough to warrant my vote.

What exactly has Kyle done to warrant your vote, but that leaves unconvinced as to whether he is scum?

[LordChronos]

@Papa Zito

What is your opinion of kyle and what do you make of those who have jumped on his bandwagon?

[LordChronos]

I guess that's true, I didn't grasp that he was at L1.

This is just ridiculous.

See here

This is a decision you have to make, not us. You shouldn't play mafia if your just going to do what other people tell you to do.

You also shouldn't hammer someone without giving people the chance to speak.

We've all spoke, and we've all placed our vote. If you're going to hammer him, do it. If you're not, than don't and make a case against someone else.

Kyle,

Why so eager to have AGar lynched?

I'd also like to know this. You come out of nowhere to put someone at -1.

I already stated my reasons why I think AGar is scum. Why do you not want to lynch AGar?

Kyle very clearly knew that AGar was at L-1. He was of the opinion that we should lynch him. Saying now that he didn't know this seems to me like he is scum trying to justify to SaintKerrigan what he has done, but failing.

[LordChronos]

First off, welcome pwnman.

Regarding the issue with Sin:

Yes, this wanting to end the day early is anti-town, but it is not anti-town enough to overturn my previous read of him as merely an overzealous townie with a tendency to tunnel.

Kyle,

What do you have to say regarding what I brought up about you saying you weren't aware that you put AGar at L-1?

Pwnman,

Does BW mean bandwagon? And how far have you read, cause I wouldn't say that Kishime hasn't posted much.

[LordChronos]

He claims that he doesn't want to go back on his stance of not voting Easjo, but I failed to find anything that indicated that he ever held such a stance

Post 77

SinSpawn9000, you seem to be the type to make rush votes and not think things through entirely, tell me 1-2 people right now you would consider to be town or that you wouldn't vote today for sure.

Post 78

I already said LordChronos.
His posting has none of the tells of being mafia.

I would have to say easyjo as a second.
I have not seen any mafia like activity from him yet.

Ok, SinSpawn, that is great. You thought easjo hadn't done anything scummy almost three hundred posts ago. What have you thought of her behavior over the last three hundred posts?

[LordChronos]

Now, I have not seen much out of easjo that makes me think she is scum. I would be looking at the more quiet players like papa zito who has not posted in some time or the bone we seem to have picked, Kyle99.

Ok, so you haven't seen anything that makes her look scummy. Has she done anything that you think makes her look townie?

[LordChronos]

Ok, woah, that was unexpected. Why is it always when I am gone that we lynch someone? (This happened on Day 1 of my last game as well. The player we were looking at was at L-2, I had to go do something, and when I got back he was lynched.)

[LordChronos]

@Easjo

What do you think of pwnman's hammer?

@SinSpawn

Please answer my question about easjo.

[LordChronos]

I don't like the fact that he voted for Sin saying that he found Sin scummy because he had jumped on to kyle and said he just wanted to end the day; and then 20 minutes later did pretty much just that to kyle. It really smacks of hypocrisy and does seem like he wanted to get kyle lynched before anyone had second thoughts. Also, I don't like that he didn't wait for a claim from kyle. Also, I don't like his lies about asking for a claim.

In short, pwnman just jumped up a couple notches on my scumdar.

[LordChronos]

I gave him PLENTY of time to claim which he should of done at L-1. He also had some screwed up reasoning in his post.

I don't like the fact that he voted for Sin saying that he found Sin scummy because he had jumped on to kyle and said he just wanted to end the day; and then 20 minutes later did pretty much just that to kyle. It really smacks of hypocrisy and does seem like he wanted to get kyle lynched before anyone had second thoughts. Also, I don't like that he didn't wait for a claim from kyle. Also, I don't like his lies about asking for a claim.

pwnman, do you have a reply to my previous post that I just quoted?

Until you adequately persuade me otherwise:

Vote:pwnman

[LordChronos]

LC, did you expect to be night killed last night? I figured you'd likely be the choice.

I certainly thought there was a possibility of it happening.

Why did you expect me to die?

[LordChronos]

LC, did you expect to be night killed last night? I figured you'd likely be the choice.

I certainly thought there was a possibility of it happening.

Why did you expect me to die?

Everyone seems to agree that you are the most pro-town. Isn't that normally who the mafia would want to target?

I agree that it would make sense for the mafia to kill pro-town people.

[LordChronos]

Ok I realise I did hammer too quickly, but his logic was messed up.

I didn't know AGar was L-1

I can't believe people jumped on me for putting AGar at L-1

Also I realise SK was on me at the end of the day, but the mafia is trying to frame me.

Personally, I am not attacking you because SK was suspicious of you and then died, I am attacking you for your hypocrisy, your quickhammer, and your lies about said quick hammer.

Why did you feel it was necessary to lie about asking kyle to claim?

[LordChronos]

I have a bad feeling that pwnman is going to end up just like kyle. Bad logic, but still town.

Do you still feel that SinSpawn is scum, then?

[LordChronos]

PS. I just got officially engaged Gonna get married after me and my new fiance have finished Uni. I'm so so so happy right now.

Just noticed this. Congratulations Haylen!!

[LordChronos]

Ok, quickly read through the burst of posts.

I concur that pwnman needs to provide examples of SinSpawn's scummy posts before I take my vote off him, much less vote SinSpawn.

I don't have a problem with lynching pwnman today. I think he has a reasonably high likelyhood of being scum. However, I don't see a need to quicklynch him. We have lots of time, we can continue to talk.

Regfan,

Ok, I will do a player analysis tomorrow. Does that sound good?

[LordChronos]

Player analysis, ordered from least scummy to most scummy:

Regfan - Throughout the game, Regfan has been scumhunting and has presented reasonable arguments backing his votes. He hasn't contradicted himself much either. Probably town.

McGriddle (IC) - I felt Papa Zito was town mostly due to the argument he had with me and how he jumped off of the AGar wagon. McGriddle hasn't done anything since he repaced in to change this read. Probably town.

easjo682 - Easjo has contradicted herself a few times and tends to come in and post after other people do and continue their attacks. She doesn't post a lot of content. Neutral-scum.

SinSpawn9000 - At the beginning of the game, I felt Sin was just an overzealous townie. However, his play is becoming more and more erratic and both at the end of Day 1 and now in Day 2 he is pushing for quicklynches and trying to end the day early which seems scummy. Read: neutral-scum.

Kishime - Kishime has listed three or four people now that he would be happy to lynch. He pushed for AGar's lynch while claiming that he thought easjo and Sin were the scum team. He tried to get people to say who they would go after today if AGar had been lynched on Day 1. He is very loose with his vote as well. The combination of these things has me leaning towards scum on him.

pwnman (SE) - I think I have discussed why I find pwnman scummy in my last few posts. But just to recap: he quickhammered kyle without a claim, he

lied

about asking for a claim; and he acted hypocritical in berating SinSpawn for being opportunistic, then doing just that himself. Very scummy.

So, given all that, I feel that pwnman is our best lynch for today.

[LordChronos]

The fact that he acted like this in a previous game makes me wonder though. In meta he was my scum buddy and when he was at L-1 he blurted out a false scum-buddy and scum ended up winning. This time he just keeps telling us he swears to God he is town. It worries me via meta but he is using obv-scum actions, and even if does flip town his uselessness will not hurt the town and I will get more info, as well as everyone else.

What game did this happen in, McGriddle?

[LordChronos]

Ok, you have a point there, though the only reason that blurting out worked was because RayFrost was apparently temporarily blind and missed the doc flip.

[LordChronos]

Well I guess there is nothing to stop me from being lynch. Town-mates yall suck this game.

Peace out

pwnman,

That attitude won't help not get you lynched. I asked you to show me how SinSpawn has played scummier than you. Saying something like you just said does nothing to convince me that someone other than you is a scum.

Where are SinSpawn's scummy posts that you have referred to?

[LordChronos]

Well I guess there is nothing to stop me from being lynch. Town-mates yall suck this game.

Peace out

Unvote

I dont think you are scum fully.

Who do you propose we lynch today, then? Kishime? SinSpawn? easjo?

[LordChronos]

OH, excuse me SinSpawn for having a life.

FYI I was at hockey practice for 2 hours. But of course I don'tsee anything stopping my lynch at this point

pwnman,

Instead of continually making these statements, bring up those examples, convince us you aren't scum. Don't be apathetic.

@Everyone else,

I get the feeling we aren't going to get the information we wanted from pwnman here.

[LordChronos]

Wait, wait, wait. You are voting me because you think I am town? What is up with that?

[LordChronos]

Did you think that Regfan was town?

[LordChronos]

Ok, right now, I am thinking SinSpawn is the most likely to be scum. His attempts to finish several days early make him look really scummy to me. Also, he hasn't been around since the start of Day 3, which is indicative of scum trying to stay off the radar.

[LordChronos]

Well now we know this.

If easjo is mafia, LC is mafia because she didn't hammer when she had the chance.

Whichever of eas and McG is the remaining town, don't you see the reasoning behind our vote for LC? The mafia usually kills whoever is seen as the most "towny" so they can leave behind townies that people are willing to lynch the next day.

LC has certainly had good posts and most of what he says makes sense, but that in no way means he couldn't be mafia. If you are so convinced LC is town, convince me with actual evidence.

Kishime,

Two problems here. First, the people that have been night-killed were also people that I, at least, felt were townies. I know McGriddle agrees with me about Regfan, and I know he has been on the townie section of several players' lists. Second, the "too townie" argument is and always will be a logical fallacy. Vote based on who you think is scummiest, not who you think is scum because they seem town and haven't died.

SinSpawn,

First, see my response to Kishime. You said I am the most likely to be townie. That means from your point of you, lynching me is the worst possible move. Second, your continual attempts to get people lynched quickly for bad reasons have convinced me.

Vote: SinSpawn

[LordChronos]

McGriddle,

It is up to you. Who do you find scummier, me or SinSpawn?

[LordChronos]

McGriddle,

It is up to you. Who do you find scummier, me or SinSpawn?

Whoa whoa. Looks like someone is panicking and forcing McG to vote earlier than he needs to. That would be a scummy tell, no? McG, since you have all the power right now I suggest you don't vote until enough evidence has been put forth. I'm in no rush.

On a side note, I really hope McG isn't mafia because if he is this game is over.

Did I say vote now? Nope, I did not. Speaking of evidence, how about answering easjo's latest post?

[LordChronos]

how can I convince you of actual evidence when you are going to discredit things, you already havee with a post like '

LC has

certainly had good posts

and

most of what he says makes sense

, but that in

no way means he couldn't be mafia

. If you are so convinced LC is town, convince me with actual evidence.

if you're so convinced he's not you show me evidence.
How do I not know that you and sin aren't mafia, hell you could've planned this, leaving LC around, then saying 'he must be mafia because the mafia didn't kill him' knowing that it could sway me or McGriddle to lynch.

The parts you bold in no way point to LC being town. LC is a human being with a certain level of logic. Since he uses good logic in his posts, people haven't been suspicious of him. If he pulls a mafia role he doesn't suddenly lose all ability to form a coherent thought.

Show you my evidence for why he's not mafia? I just did. He wouldn't be alive if he was town because if you were to rank everyone 1-9 with towniest being 1 he would have been 1 or 2 on Day 1.

The second part of that is WIFOM nonsense that I have no way to prove or disprove. It would be like me saying how do I know you and LC arent mafia trying to say that I'm mafia trying to pin LC as mafia since I... and it goes on and on and on forever.

1. So, Kishime, what happens in a game with three people who everyone thinks is town on Day 3? Can the mafia have killed them all, or will one still be alive?

2. If those are not town-tells, what are?

3. Well, your argument against me is bigtime WIFOM as well. As easjo said, we can go back and forth all day over whether the mafia were framing me or not.

[LordChronos]

1. This is completely irrelevant. There were 6 people to choose from yesterday and you were the towniest according to most people. There weren't 6 equally towny people yesterday.

2. Beats the hell out of me. If it was that black and white what is stopping the mafia from doing nothing but "town-tells?" What do you think town tells are? The ones that conveniently apply to you this game?

3. By that logic, everything is WIFOM. Of course the mafia COULD have set you up like this, but it's more likely that you are mafia and therefore can't be night killed. Your conspiracy theory is pretty weak.

1. Is not irrelevant. Are you trying to tell me that you felt Regfan was in no way similar to me in townieness?

2. No, actually. I think that town tells are things such as not active lurking, making reasoned posts that contribute to the discussion at hand, bringing up accusations/points against other players that are supported by what they have done, etc.

3. So we have two WIFOM arguments here, but mine isn't a logical fallacy and I have other arguments to support my position.

[LordChronos]

McGriddle,

It is up to you. Who do you find scummier, me or SinSpawn?

I'm going to go back to this.

It seems that in his panic of being discovered as scum, LC has let slip that he KNOWS McG is town. I was still somewhat frightened that McG was scum and would hammer vote whoever was town, but LC doesn't show that fear and only tries to manipulate McG to vote for Sin.

Now THAT's a scum tell!

You say I am not showing fear of McG hammering whoever is town. But that is precisely why I am making the case for lynching Sin instead of me. I have presented a case against SinSpawn, and no one has refuted it. The one argument against me, that I have survived until now, is both WIFOM and a fallacy. Why would I not attempt to convince McG to see my point of view?

[LordChronos]

Well, there was a cop flip in the day 1 lynch.

[LordChronos]

Well, there was a cop flip in the day 1 lynch.

Okay, then I am going to

Vote: LordChronos

How does kyle flipping cop make me scum? Although it is a little late now, since the hammer has been cast.

[LordChronos]

Sweet!

Go easjo!!! Thanks for the compliment SK.

[LordChronos]

Thanks Papa Zito. In the end it was my undoing though, dang Kishime.

I don't have a problem with posting a link to the quick topic.

[LordChronos]

Papa Zito,

You have no idea how much it worried me when you jumped in and said you knew who the scum were and named me as one of them.

[LordChronos]

I've made an error worse than sin's.

I read the OP in a game three times when I replaced in to check the deaths, and I still missed that the doc had died D1, so I ended up voting the cop thinking that there wasn't a doc... x.x in lylo

I read that game. I think there is a link to it in this thread.

[LordChronos]

I didn't find LC 'the most town', he was active and showed signs of scumhunting but he was just questioning everything not looking into it too far.

Who did you think was "the most town"?

[LordChronos]

From the mafia qt.

easjo682 27
02-24-2010 09:07 AM ET (US)

"lets kill regfan, I've wanted to see him dead for a while, nothing against him, just I think if he uses his head he might get somewhere with the catching of us, if I do happen to get lynched

at least we know you are town enough to pull it off that you'll get a townie lynched the next day.

"

Even though town still lost I'm gonna have to pull out a big smug for this one.

Yep, we really thought you guys would go for easjo on Day 3.