Newbie 917 - Game over.

[The Quintastic One]

Vote: Mysterious Mystery Man.

He's definitely got something to hide.

[The Quintastic One]

On that note, I am also an SE, but to be honest I am an SE by default. I wouldn't say that I am a shining example on how to play Mafia, considering my record on two sites combined involves 3 modkills, 2 replace outs and 1 game that I've actually completed and won (and I was Mafia).

So I'm back in the Newbie Queue, going to try and learn the ropes one last time. I know enough about Mafia that I can answer some of your basic questions that I usually see pop up in newbie games such as what is WIFOM, OMGUS, FoS and all that good stuff. But when it comes to how to improve your game and such, I would turn towards guys like Myst and Civil Scum.

[The Quintastic One]

When I came last night to confirm on the thread it was still locked; sorry to keep everyone waiting (I had no way of coming to the Internet up until now). (I also now know you can confirm by PM'ing the mod, my apologies for that.)
Good to meet everyone =)

I'm here wondering if I should random vote or OMGUS just for the fun of it.
I'll just random it.

Vote: thatguy00

Welcome to you as well. But I gotta ask as well, why did you feel the need to choose between random vote or OMGUS? Either way it's going to be interpreted as RVS at this point in the game so there's no reason to worry about the possible reactions of a vote.


Unless you're scum! Hoo-hah!

I won't vote hop as quickly as The Pimp, but it is something I'd like to press upon you for an answer.

[The Quintastic One]

So now that everyone's gotten their early RVS potshots in I'll pose a question for everyone to answer.


When do you believe the RVS (Random Voting Stage) ends? Do you see it as a post based thing, where the first page or two is considered RVS, do you see it as a time based thing, like the first 48 hours of a game or so, or do you see it as an action based thing, that people post RVS votes until someone posts a scummy looking vote?

[The Quintastic One]

Mega Pimp has a point, but I don't like his vote hoping to three different people in the course of one and a half pages of gameplay. It seems like he's stretching for anything he can get a nibble on that can be construed as remotely scummy.

I don't think it's scummy right now, as it could be enthusiastic town throwing his vote around as much as possible like a hound that smells blood. But it cheapens his ability to convince others of his opinion if he just jumps on every little thing that's said with a vote.

But apparently we're out of the RVS so I will go ahead and

unvote

for now.

[The Quintastic One]

I'll go and get it out of the way and say that I don't think that lurking is all that good a scum-tell either. Will be debated perhaps, if it becomes an issue- mmm, quintastic?

Are you asking me a question in regards to lurking being a scumtell? If so I would agree that I don’t believe lurking is a scumtell per se. More often than not I’ve seen the town play a “lynch all lurkers” rule and end up mislynching more than catching scum. So in my experience at least, Scum are the ones who push for lurker lynches because it’s easier to cast suspicion on a target who won’t fight back.

Jumping around for no/bad reasons will cheapen my ability to convince others. Jumping around for good reasons, I suspect, will not.

So long as you have good reasons for your switching around your vote, you’ll be just fine. For reference purposes, do your votes on Exilon & Mysti reflect good reasoning? And do you feel their reactions thus far in this game classify as early scumtells?

As for real lurking, if it becomes an issue, are you folks part of the lynch all lurkers crowd? I mean no, it's not always a tell, but at the same time I don't know if it's a good idea to allow lurking to be a safe strategy. You know?

And to elaborate on my point earlier towards Civil Scum, I don’t believe lurking is always a tell. But I do believe it is Anti-Town. As the less information we have, the more power we give to the Mafia. And if we have town players lurking in the shadows, they are only casting more suspicion on themselves and thus distracting from actual scumhunting.

And with that note, depending on Super Pimp’s answer to my question, I’d be willing to take a closer look at Mysti in particular and see if I can’t see where he’s coming from.

[The Quintastic One]

Erk, really? Uh. Hm. I guess that sort of makes sense. I've even seen it suggested that newbies find mafia roles more interesting and are thus less likely to lurk in them. ...Which is usually vehemently fought by the insistence that if lurking is allowed to be safe, scum will be encouraged to lurk and thus given a free pass... but I don't think I've ever double checked to see if the people saying that were scum. (I guess it's not the sort of game that's easy to learn by just watching other people play, is it? Not when you can't know who's genuinely scumhunting and who isn't.)

There’s no true one way to do scumhunting. So my analysis of lurkers and scumhunting shouldn’t be viewed as the be all end all way to play the game. The best way you can catch scum yourself is through experience and remembering who was scum and who was town and how they played. That will give you information to consider on the next game.

When it comes to finding out who’s genuinely scumhunting and who isn’t, look at the questions that people ask. Look at who they attack and who they drop attacks against. Look for patterns and see who’s posting fluff and making it look useful when really it does nothing for the town.

Okay, so.. what do you personally think is a good basis for choosing the first day's vote? (Echoing this question to other people who've played before, too, since I can't even know if any advice given is genuine.) Is it really doomed to be random unless someone slips up entirely?

It’s tough to answer this question, as I haven’t had enough experience to know exactly what seems to work in catching scum day 1. Statistically speaking town is always more likely to be lynched than scum on Day 1, but that doesn’t mean you should have a defeatist opinion about it. Like I said above, look at the votes that people place. Look at their arguments, question everything that doesn’t make complete sense to you, and see who gets irritated easiest when their lynch targets don’t go through as planned.

I agree with the unvoting thing, but I think that a mass unvote that was called by Quintastic isn't the best way to go about this. His calling for unvoting could be a ploy to get votes off him/herself or his/her possible "scum buddy" [though I'm not accusing you of being scum], but it is logical, now that we're a couple days in to call off the I'll consider it. As for that, I'm here.

Just to clarify, I didn’t call for a mass unvote. I myself chose to unvote since we were out of the RVS and I guess others followed suit. The main reason I did that was because Super Pimp’s vote was on Triple M and so was mine, but my vote was an RVS joke vote and I didn’t want a bandwagon to build up that I didn’t truly feel was worthy of my vote.

What's not good about them? What do you think about my logic and intentions for voting you?

You should already have your logic and intentions mapped out as to why you moved from Exilon to Mysti. This seems more like fishing for Mysti to give you your case instead of actually having your own logic to it. Which is both ironic and weak in its usage.

[The Quintastic One]

He's asking Myst to give his thoughts on Pimp's logic & reasoning when the inevitable answer no matter how it's spun is going to be WIFOM. Nobody can explain to SAMP what they think about SAMP's thought process or why he's voting for Triple M. So the question itself is more or less fluff. So I stepped in to question it.

However, I didn't question SAMP with the intention of obstruction. But you're not wrong, that kind of intrusion could allow for easy outs and non-answers. Though ignoring questions entirely no matter how pointless or WIFOMY would do more damage than answering it honestly all the same.

[The Quintastic One]

He said that he didn't think your logic and intentions are good at all when it comes to your vote on Exilon. You asked him what his thoughts on your logics and intentions were when it comes to your vote on him. That's silly fluff. Because you know going into the question that his answer is going to be the same.

Honestly, what kind of a reaction are you hoping to get from asking a question that's virtually rhetorical anyway? That's why I said it seems more like fluffy filler of a question rather than something you honestly expect to get information out of.

I'd like for Mysti to actually elaborate as to

why

he felt your vote on Exilon wasn't one of good intentions. And I would like you to elaborate as to why you asked him his opinion on a vote cast against him in the first place.

[The Quintastic One]

Ah... Nothing like waking up in the morning and finding yourself at L3. How refreshing.

L-3 isn't so much to worry about. Especially considering you only had two votes on you that made you at L-3 in the first place. I could understand this slight frustration if you were maybe at L-2 or L-1, but not L-3.

Vote: Super Awesome Mega Pimp! so I'm not the only one at L3 and I'll stop feeling lonely up here.

OMGUS vote is OMGUS.

By making the question a non-issue, you eliminate that small possibility.

Fair enough, I concede the point. It was a slight mistake for me to intervene on the line of questioning so early. However, seeing Triple M's reactions after the fact, it seems the interaction has served it's point all the same. As a combination of disappointment at being L-3 and then the ensuing OMGUS seems to be the scummiest actions thus far from Myst.

I think SAMP is pretty erratic, first voting Exilon for weird reasoning, then voting me when I pointed out it was weird reasoning.

I actually think the process went, he voted for Exilon. You said the RVS Vs. OMGUS debate was silly, he voted for you and THEN you pointed out his weird reasoning for the Exilon vote.

I'm in the process of developing a mathematical system to settle my internal WIFOMs. There.. there is clearly something wrong with me

Just a general piece of advice that a more experienced player gave me once. It's nice to keep your internal WIFOM's written down in a Word Document or something for reference purposes. Because although some questions will just be dismissed as WIFOM in game such as "If this player were town why would he say this?" it's actually a useful bit of information to ask yourself and then keep researching for those patterns and see if your WIFOM later in the game wasn't actually legitimate in the first place.

[The Quintastic One]

I also have been witholding my vote, but for a different reason than avoiding a quick lynch. I'm not sure at this point if I find Triple M or SAMP more scummy at this point. Because I agree with Mysti that SAMP's vote hopping is erratic and have a hint of scumminess to it, but I also see that SAMP's targeting of MMM has caused a bit of whiplash from Triple M in his direction, which smells of scummy OMGUS to me.

@Mysti: Since you voted for SAMP over me, what makes me your number 2 suspect at the moment?

[The Quintastic One]

Mass Claims seldom work, and are a bad idea just in general on Day 1. I've been in games where a mass claim helped make the game VERY easy for the town, but those are themed games where people can recognize which good guy you are from a TV show or Video Game with your hints. In a normal newbie game like this, a Mass Claim would only put any potential power roles in danger & would also serve no purpose. Since Mafia are going to all claim Vanilla Townie anyway in order to avoid being counter claimed in case they claim a power role.

[The Quintastic One]

Sorry about that. I misread your post. I thought when you said "My vote was better suited on SAMP than TQO" that you were debating between myself and SAMP as who's scummy. My mistake.

Although I find the parallels funny that you voted for me for voting for you during RVS, and then you voted for SAMP when he voted for you after RVS. It's just an amusing self defense mechanism you seem to use.

[The Quintastic One]

Given the analysis from Mustilicor, I can see how just by considering the odds, Myst's actions thus far would lean more towards scum than SAMP. I just want one more thing.

@Civil Scum: You are the second person voting for Triple M. Does Mustilicor's analysis strengthen your vote on Myst? If so, why? If not, is there another reason you have your vote still on Myst and how confident are you given the information we've gathered thus far that he is the right lynch today?

[The Quintastic One]

But, I'm really getting a bad vibe from how quintastic is playing, however it would mean that if quintastic is looking for a way to legitimize his vote on either samp or mmm before placing it, it's probably because neither one is going to be a good lynch for town. I'm not quite comfortable accepting that just yet, so I'm not switching. But it sounds to me like quintastic is trying to build up and support whichever vote he intends to make later, while citing other people's opinions heavily to distance himself from a mistake.

You are right that I was asking you for validation of my impending usage of a vote. On day 1 it’s impossibly difficult enough already to determine scummy relationships between players and motives without somebody slipping up. Hence why I was asking for validation from you to make sure you were as sure of today’s lynch as I am becoming. I wouldn’t call it distancing myself from a possible mistake, I am simply making absolutely sure that I have 100% conviction on who I believe to be scummy before proceeding.

I'd tend to hammer vote if the possibility came up, just so we can progress the game faster, would that get me portrayed as scummy?

So you would hammer for the sake of hammering if the opportunity presented itself? What about if the person being voted for doesn’t seem like scum to you? As a general rule, town usually turns on the player that hammers on Day 1. I don’t follow that logic, as anyone on a lynch wagon who has a problem with a hammer could of easily unvoted themselves in order to avoid the lynch if they weren’t 100% confident in their vote. So I look for those interactions, and not necessarily condemn town hammers all the time.

Lastly, can I assume everyone is at least claiming to be a vanilla townie? No one is claiming/pretending to be doctor or anything like that right off, right?

Nobody has claimed anything, I just said a mass claim WOULD result in everyone claiming Vanilla Townie in order to not give away any obvious information. But that’s WIFOM anyway, as I can’t know that for sure. But trying to ask for validation whether or not there’s been a roleclaim for the Doc definitely gives me pause.

So if I wanted to make a post that would make me seem less scummy, and more townie, I'd want to post some of my theories on who is scum, and who is innocent, right?

Wow…..well…..I might just be able to find someone here who’s more scummy than Myst to me….But the answer to your question regardless is yes and no. Yes, you want to post theories on who you think is scum. And to not be afraid of the potential backlash you might get from calling someone scummy. Whether you're town or mafia you're not going to feel very good about being called scummy, and you're gonna fight back. So when they do, be prepared to defend your suspicions as best as you can. But no, you don’t generally want to say who you think is innocent, unless you’re doing a player by player analysis. Because attracting attention to town players saying “hey look, we trust this guy to be town!” makes them prime targets for the Mafia at night since the closer you are to confirmed townie, the more dangerous you are in the end game to scum.

I don't actually plan on hammer voting now, as even if I was scum, that would be way too obvious.

I just feel like I should be doing something with my time. (Besides making myself seem more scummy )

I appreciate your activity, and your willingness to learn Mafia Theory and proper play. But the way you are presenting your questions screams to me like you are new player scum trying to get some advice as to not seem so scummy, which you shouldn’t focus on as town anyway. Town will say what’s on their mind and what they believe no matter if it looks scummy or not because if you can properly defend your own thoughts, it’s harder for scum to manipulate your posts. But if you look like your being overly cautious and apologetic, then that means you’re playing carefully for self preservation, which is a mafia tactic.

Vote: Antifinity.

For now, you’ve pretty much turned my head away from the SAMP Vs. MMM debate going on. My eye is still on both of those guys behavior in case they become more suspicious than Anti right now, but that’s just too many scummy posts in a row for me to ignore. I’d like to repeat, nobody that I am suspicious of is shut out right now, but right now Anti is definitely giving me new player scum reads.

[The Quintastic One]

The only thing I have figured out so far is that Exilon wants to prevent a lynching of a particular player other than himself. Now I know the lynching wasn't for a good reason, but telling other people to unvote someone is the one thing that a perfect scum player would be able to do, that no one else would be able to know for sure.

I actually think Antifinity has a point here. Not a strong point, kind of a distracting point, but a point none the less. An experienced scum player could easily be subtlety discouraging against town lynches under the guise of "we don't want to mislynch", but in reality that's actually a strong tactic that can be used to derail the town with fear of mislynching. Because if we're afraid to vote for anyone due to the possibility of a mislynch, then the game drags on, players lose interest, and scumhunting comes to a grinding halt. Is it likely in this scenario? Not very. But it's an interesting point that Antifinity brings to the table that makes me lean more towards extremely nervous new player town than way too easy scum. Almost like he's too scummy to be scum.

But my vote will remain on Anti for now all the same. Triple M's super defensiveness definitely is within my sights at this point, as I think that's worth looking at. But he's safely at L-3 for now, which gives McGriddle a good chance to post their analysis and we can see what a fresh perspective tells us.

And btw, Mustilicor is definitely an early candidate for MVP of this game. Town or scum, he's been playing great.

[The Quintastic One]

I agree. Although I think your vote for the sake of voting for a guy who has the most votes on him is ultra scummy, I'm far more inclined at this point to believe in a Anti + MMM scumteam. That's why my vote still lies on Anti. But pending on what McGriddle has to say, things could swing in the favor of anyone right now.

[The Quintastic One]

Upon further thought into it I am starting to lean that way myself. Like I said above it just seems TOO obvious that he could be scum. Even a new scum player would/should have enough know how to know that asking questions as to how they can save themselves from seeming scummy is too obvious a clue.

But I still lean on Anti for the sole fact that any self respecting townie that has read his role knows he is town. There is no reason why Anti would have to be wishy washy with us in terms of talking about "whether or not I was scum" or "if I were scum, or not scum depending on the situation" ect. ect. ect. If you're town you know you're town, providing variables for us to consider whether or not that is fact is very suspicious. And even new players have no reason why they would do so within good reason.

[The Quintastic One]

All of Andrius, Antifinity, SAMP, MMM & Exilon have all done things worthy of suspicion in my eyes for scum. But obviously there is no possible way that you all can be scum. But I digress, my point is

Well.. yes. Sorry! It's a game where you have to be suspicious of everyone

I agree with this. lol.


Just a word of warning to people who are being frustrated at the slowing down of the game. We're only on Page 6 thus far. That's actually pretty darn quick for a Mafia Game since we are THIS close to finding top suspects for Scum. My first Mafia game (that I replaced out of due to frustration with the slow moving day phase) went over 25 pages (approx) before they finally lynched someone. I'd consider it a big accomplishment that we have as many tells as we do right now just on page 6.

[The Quintastic One]

And BTW: I have no problems hammering Triple M at this point since I still subscribe to the possibility of a MMM/Anti scumteam. I can take the heat of a hammer. All I've been waiting on is McGriddle.

[The Quintastic One]

Hai guiyz, I ahm da scumzors!

Hehehe. Oh, sorry, I'll stop joking now. ^_^

[The Quintastic One]

I'm waiting on McGriddles analysis of the game thus far. It's not really 100% needed at this point, he's just the last person in the game who hasn't gave his two cents on who he thinks is scummy.

[The Quintastic One]

We shouldn't give up hope just because we lost two townies through a mislynch and a nightkill. It's 4 votes to a lynch with 7 players alive, only two of those can be scum. That means we still have the numbers on our side, and we've got a full day chalk full of information to go off of to analyze people's relationships throughout the past day.

With Triple M coming up town, I can't be positive anymore of an MMM/Anti scumteam anymore for obvious reasons. However, I still feel Anti is a good fit for a lynch. Newbie mistakes or not, they were more scummy mistakes than your average new player mistakes. Too many obvscum tells from Day 1 if you ask me.

But for today, I'm actually leaning towards SAMP. Believe it or not. When you combine the fact that he virtually tunneled on Triple M after RVS ended, with the fact that Triple M was town, along with the fact that although Andrius has been acting scummy, his pre-prepared analysis of McGriddles motives, and SAMP's immediate jumping on him for Day 2, all of these things make me believe that SAMP is trying to direct the town intentionally on mislynches.

And why do I believe Andrius (for now)? Because he typed up that entire analysis ASSUMING McGriddle would be alive going into Day 2. He had virtually no clue who was going to die in the night, and was convinced individually that McGriddle was scum. That was obviously not true, but he built up a good case all the same as he waited for the next Day Phase.

Here's the big tell: Scum, whether they are experienced Mafia players or new players, would never put THAT much effort into building a case on a player that they were targeting to kill on Night 1. There would be no rhyme, reason or point to that kind of strategy. Call it WIFOM all you want, but I don't believe our scum is so smart in this game that they believe a double-feint on McGriddle would be an effective way to go about things.

Therefore, when you consider the vote on Triple M, but not just the vote but the tunneling of the vote, the attack on Andrius for the same newbie scum reasons that he defends Antifinity from, and Andrius' case against McGriddle proving that he did not know that McGriddle was going to be targeted, I feel a SAMP/Anti scumteam is far more likely at this point, and SAMP being a far more dangerous threat to the town.

Vote: Super Awesome Mega Pimp!

[The Quintastic One]

I really gotta apologize to you, Civil Scum. As I do not want you to think that your giant wall of text is being ignored by me, but I KNOW my limits as a Mafiascum player. I cannot possibly, physically, devote enough time and energy required to answer every point you bring in your wall of text. So I will try to answer some basic points, but if you could do me a HUGE favor and condense that down into a set of one or two line questions for me to answer, I could gladly defend my actions that way. But that's way too much god damn quoting for me. lol.


First off, god damn I dunno even where to start. lol. Uhm, I guess we'll start wiiiith....the Triple M situation?

As best as I can elaborate on it, I would of gladly still of hammered Triple M on Day 1. So don't mistake my attack on SAMP as a sudden reversal of motives or anything like that. Triple M was the scummiest player to me at the time who WASN'T giving away obvscum tells like Andrius and Antifinity have done. I was shocked at McGriddles replacement of an analysis with just a simple quick vote with little explanation on Triple M.

Which is why I believe Andrius when he says he was convinced McGriddle was scum. Classic signs, little content, promising of content without delivering, unjustified votes, bandwagon hopping, you name it McGriddle did it.

This doesn't excuse Andrius' hammer which reeked of just laying in wait until somebody put MMM in hammer range so that he could blast him. But I already covered this in one of my first posts this game I believe. That the hammer is NOT always the most likely scum. That I look at the other earlier candidates pushing the lynches rather than the deciding blow. SAMP is a perfect example of my promise to stay true to my playstyle. He was the leader of the Triple M lynch, and pushed for it ever since he first argued against SAMP's vote on Exilon.

Obviously, with Triple M turning up town, I had to adjust my thought process a bit. There IS a possibility that MMM Vs. SAMP was a town vs. town exchange, which happens often. I can see that playing out, but I also mentioned my personal belief that the majority of the time scum are the ones who push for immediate lynches of the Day 1 Hammers. Which not only holds true to my targeting of the MMM lynch, in SAMP, but also just happens to be a double whammy in terms of SAMP immediately going for the Andrius hammerer.

So those two tells that guide my personal playstyle, combined with the more practical reasons I have outlined above, lead me to a perfect fit for a SAMP vote. There's no twisting of posts around or misconstruing what SAMP is saying, I am using pure facts based off of my personal philosophy on Mafia Theory as well as what has actually transpired in the game thus far. Does it make me a little scummy? That depends on your interpretation of my actions. But I'm playing to what I believe in is honest & true.

[The Quintastic One]

It's simple, I'm kind of surprised that you guys don't understand my Andrius/Antifinity comparison.


I call out Antifinity for obvscum tells. You guys defend him by saying that we can't go off of all newbie tells because they could just be an excited new player.

You call out Andrius for obvscum tells. I defend him by saying he's doing a better job rectifying himself from those obv tells than Antifinity is doing.

In a nutshell, both Andrius and Antifinity are scummy due to newbie mistakes, you guys are playing favorites deciding what tells you want to ignore from Antifinity and what tells you want to jump on from Andrius. So I'm going to call you out on the contradiction. It's as simple as that.

[The Quintastic One]

EBWOP: Adding more to my argument.

It's obviously easier for the town to jump on Andrius because he was the hammer, it's predictable Day 2 course of events. The hammer ALWAYS gets called out as scummy, no matter how good their reasons. So that's where I am drawing the contradiction. Antifinity is getting a free pass for his scumminess simply because he wasn't the hammer. Both are one in the same examples of scumminess, but one is far more appealing than the other because the former is the hammer.

I wouldn't be surprised if either Andrius OR Antifinity came up scum. The tells complete the tale. But even if it seems scummy for me defending the hammer as hard as I am I'm not going to sit idly by and let one scummy player get a free pass for doing the same thing the other scummy player is doing.

[The Quintastic One]

To Mustilicor: I'm about to post some WIFOM, so bear with me. But it's for clarification purposes. If I were scum, and I actively said you were playing great as town, that would mean that I considered you a great threat to my team and thus would of targeted you for a Night Kill last night.

But I knew by saying that going into it that you would possibly be painted as a nightkill target by the Mafia, call it manipulative, but it's apart of my plan. (wink)

Speaking of which, thank you Andrius for not hammering me as quickly as you did Triple M. Your recent posting reeks of appeal to emotion, but from my experience most appeals to emotion by scum are those brought on by incredible anger and ad hominem. So I'm inclined to believe that although your defeatist attitude is Anti-Town, it's not scummy.

And to those questioning why I was voting on Antifinity rather than Triple M or SAMP on Day 1, I suspected all three of them. But I can't possibly have my vote on all three of them at once. Antifinity I still find the scummiest player of this game and worthy of a lynch, but as I learned from Day 1, it's going to be impossible for me to lead that lynch because his mistakes right now are being dismissed as newbie mistakes, and I can't convince you otherwise.

But if SAMP should turn up scum, or I am lynched and am shown as town, then my dying wish would be that you guys opened your eyes and lynched the obvscum Antifinity.

[The Quintastic One]

Hmmm it seems my clues were a little too obscure for you. But I'm not going to spell anything out any further, I must of placed too much faith in your skills of observation, and it failed. So I'm sorry, but to give any more information places quite a few people in danger. And I can't risk that.


And to SAMP, I've said multiple times on both Day 1 and Day 2 that both Andrius and Antifinities actions are scummy. That's why I would not be surprised if either of them came up scum. But I feel Andrius has done a better job at defending himself and proving his townness than Antifinity has. If I have to explain why I support an Antifinity lynch > an Andrius lynch I'm afraid I'll have to lose faith in any possibility that you are town, since you're refusing to accept the answers to my questions and keep asking the same rebuttals in a different way expecting me to give you a different answer that suits your needs. That's not going to happen.

[The Quintastic One]

EBWOP: That first part is directed at Mustilicor and her confusion at my explanations. If I should be lynched, I will elaborate as to what I was trying to do in the end game. But to reveal anything right now gives too much information to the Mafia.

[The Quintastic One]

Thanks for the chance of a roleclaim. I appreciate that. So since I've been forced into it by the town, here's my elaboration.

I protected Mustilicor last night. I painted Mustilicor as a nightkill target to draw the Mafia to him during the night, as I believe Mustilicor to be obvtown and if I KNEW that by painting him as obvtown, that I as scum would of targeted him for an nightkill, and thought he was an obvious choice.

So like any good receiver as this role would do I painted him as the target for the Mafia so that I could PROTECT him from the nightkill, thereby distracting the Mafia away from getting a night kill off on Night 1.

But my plan failed for Night 1, as the scum threw us a curve ball and killed McGriddle. Hence my confusion as to why the Mafia would do that, and as to why I believe Andrius to be obvtown as well as Mustilicor because there's no way the Mafia could of come up with a gambit SO ingenius that they would purposefully build a case on a player that they were already killing to paint them as scum on Day 2. That not only is moronic in practice, but insanely genius in it's ability to throw off the entire town in the process if that were the case.

But it's not, at least, I don't believe it is. But now that you guys have forced my roleclaim I am most certainly going to be dead on Night 2, with no way for any of you to protect me. So at the VERY least I hope you can get your heads out of your asses and lynch the obvscum Antifinity unless you want to lose FOUR townies in the process of two days and get yourselves in Lylo Day 3.

The choice is yours.

[The Quintastic One]

But I'm curious, why would there be a counter-claim? If X comes forth and claim's he's doctor, we're going to lynch one of them, and the other will be NK'd by the mafia. XD So why would someone want to counter-claim, at this point?

The problem with someone counter claiming is that it would be far too risky for the Mafia to do that. Because I am by far the easiest lynch thus far, being at L-1, if someone counterclaimed and convinced the town to lynch me, I WILL come up as the real role, and they just outed themselves as either lying Mafia or the dumbest town gambit in the history of Mafiascum. Lol.

As to Exilon, I’m gonna have to reread your post, because I’m not sure I caught any questions here directed towards me. It looks at first glance as if you’ve just posted a series of accusations and analysis of my play, which without some form of a purpose, is very fluff and emits a mask of pseudo activity.

But here is my second read through, and I will try to answer any questions or rebuttals I see worth noting.

As for Quintastic… you do believe yourself a lot XD First, because of your development of a certain playstyle which you follow meticulously; as stated sometimes during day 1 and which represented the basis for your vote on Samp!.

As town I HAVE to believe myself a lot. Without confidence in my own reasoning, I’m too susceptible to manipulation by the rest of the town. On the last day phase I wasn’t asking Civil Scum, Mustilicor & others for their opinions because I believed their input mattered in terms of voting for Triple M, SAMP or Antifinity. I asked for their opinions so I could draw comparisons and observe relations between the players and see who was buddying with who, and who was bussing who.

(For a supposedly “experienced” player, one should know that there’s ALWAYS exceptions.)

I’ve also already addressed this on Day 1. I am a SEMI-experienced player, and that is only due to a technicality. My Mafia record includes 3 modkills, 2 replace outs and 1 actually completed game as a Mafia Roleblocker. I do not claim to know the ins and outs of Mafia Theory, I only claim to know my own playstyle and how I look at the game. Is it prone to false logic? Yes. But so is every single theory presented by any player on this site when they discuss who they believe is Scum. There is no one true way to fish for Mafia, otherwise these games would be insanely easy for the town to win. It’s like you said, this is a game about the mind, my mind simply works differently than anyone elses.

How am I supposed to believe you if your reasoning is based on “intuition”, as some would put it?

Your best ally in Mafia is your gut and intuition. You can analyze and analyze and analyze considering all the possible logical nooks and crannies of who is scum and who is not, but logic can only get you so far in this game. There are times when you have to follow your intuition on who you believe is scum or not, regardless if your mind is telling you it’s impossible.

What you said only rules out Andrius-scum. Why did you include Mustilicor? In fact, as I have stated in one of my posts before, one could suspect Mustilicor of being scum precisely because he didn’t get killed. So why do you believe Mustilicor is obvtown as Andrius?

Because Mustilicor has been doing the most scumhunting out of any player here. If Mustilicor is scum than I still couldn’t feel confident lynching her in a million years because she’s too damn valuable a source of information for us. She hasn’t been buddying with anyone, and she hasn’t been actively bussing anybody. She’s been posting theories, suspicions, questions & arguments to where almost all of her posts are quality. I’d be a fool to lynch her when I feel there are far more scummier candidates this game.

Unless they have a roleblocker or want to instill even more confusion.

This is the only variable I could imagine that would result in me not getting nightkilled tonight. If they have a roleblocker and simply choose to make sure my protections don’t do anything, while targeting whomever they please for the nightkill, then they can still lie low in the shadows and keep me alive making me look VERY suspicious and continue to distract the town. Or they could just ignore my roleclaim completely which would be laughable, but good for us!

I will end off this super long mentally draining post of mine with a list of player analysis on who I believe to be towny and scummy. I know I discouraged this on Day 1, but I’m pretty much dead in the water whether I get lynched or nightkilled anyway so I see no harm in my final hours of analysis possibly being of aid to the Town when they consider what to do when I’m gone on Day 3.

Antifinity:

He couldn’t be more scummy if I threw him down a sewage line filled with Phil Collins records.

Andrius:

Wouldn’t be surprised if he were scum. Wouldn’t be surprised if he were town. I say obvtown because he’s at least trying to redeem himself in the eyes of the town rather than just giving up and saying “go ahead, lynch me” like most newb scum would do. And if he were scum, I would be dead by now. There is no way in the blue blazes of hell that Andrius is scum and let me live. If that's not the most obvious town tell in the history of ever then I don't know what is.

Civil Scum:

I actually have a gut scum read on him. Something just rubs me the wrong way about CS, but I obviously have no concrete evidence to support this, so I’ll just let this suspicion lie.

Exilon:

Town. Slight twinge of scumminess due to making a large post that really does nothing to advance a lynch, but there’s certainly scummier.

Mustilicor:

She couldn’t be more town if you just moved in next door and she gave you an over elaborate jello mold, some corn bread, a pint of purple drank & a bucket of fried chicken.

Super Awesome Mega Pimp!:

He couldn’t be more scummy at this point if I used him as a water slide down a mountain of Nuclear waste and elephant feces.

But since nobody else seems to have the initiative to vote for Antifinity unless somebody else goes first, I’ll give you a headstart to start actually lynching scum today.

Unvote, Vote: Antifinity

[The Quintastic One]

I am going to dispel this TQO/Andy scumteam suspicion once and for all. This is my final attempt to dissuade you of your suspicions of me. Because I am officially insulted, that you would take any counter claim and instantly paint me as scum over that person, no matter how crappy their claim would be, you're basically BEGGING the Mafia to counterclaim me with any reason they can come up with so you can have an excuse to lynch me.

So this is the final time that I will attempt to dispel the TQO/Andrius scum theory. I refuse to answer anymore questions about my connections with him, as I have defended my reasonings and beat that dead horse a thousand times over, and at this point it's not my fault if you refuse to believe the cold hard facts in front of you.

So pay attention, because I'm not answering anymore questions regarding my motives.

So you're telling me, that if you really subscribe to a TQO/Andrius scumteam theory, that this would be our plan, as scum?:

1) From Day 1 paint Mustilicor as confirmed town.

2) But instead of targeting the confirmed town, we kill the fresh replacement McGriddle, who did nothing in this game of value beyond aid in the lynch of Triple M.

3) Prepare an argument as to why we believe McGriddle to be scum, despite the fact that we know going into the second Day that McGriddle should be dead.

4) Prepare a false protective roleclaim ASSUMING that I am going to reach L-1 and have time to counter claim.

If you believe that Andrius and I are the scum, THESE are the plot points you are subscribing to. Which officially makes us the worst scum team in the history of Mafia. Because we would of confirmed trust in a townie, refusing to even try to lynch them, nightkilling a virtually useless target, then building a case based on why we believe a dead townie is scum, and then set up a false claim ASSUMING ALL PREVIOUS STEPS ARE GOING TO FAIL and lead to my lynch?

If that's what you are subscribing to, then color me personally insulted. That you would assume that my play is THAT incompetent, I take as a personal attack on my character. I have done nothing but try and scumhunt this entire time, and yet any player can walk into this thread, counter claim me, and you would believe them over me no matter how horrible their reasoning is. If that's your motivations, and you are town, then you deserve to lose this game.

That is all.

[The Quintastic One]

If it influenced anything, your 'confirmed trust' just made people go 'hey, uh.. why isn't Mustilicor dead..?

Nobody should be asking this question anymore, as I have made it clear that I protected you on Night 1. So even if Mafia attacked you I would of prevented your death anyway. And I would of protected you throughout this entire game so long as I was alive, because you are the most Pro-Town player I’ve seen all game. But unfortunately my quest will end on Night 2, and I’ve nobody but myself to blame for that.

Finally, preparing a false roleclaim just in case seems like an inherently sensible thing for scum to do. It's also possible that this was a back up plan just in case the pre-painted target (the one getting the occasional 'TOO townie!' reads) was not falling under enough suspicion.

But if Andrius was the one coming under suspicion, how in the world, as scum, could I of possibly predicted since Day ONE that I would be the one who needed a false claim? Yes I know that we’re just throwing WIFOM back and forth but I seriously NEED to understand how you guys think this plan is at all plausible and not just a SUPER stretch on your part.

Okay, I have to say I was cracking up a bit when I read your last post. Pretty funny. Not that it's off-point, just how riled up you seem to be.

It’s in the Meta. If you’d like to do a little research on me. I get VERY riled up as town. While the one game that I was scum I was actually very calm, thoughtful and collected. Mostly because as town I panic at the idea of the town mislynching. It’s not that I care about dying per se, as a nightkill I have no control over and can’t exactly tell the Mafia not to kill me. But I know if I am town and people lynch me that they are lynching the wrong guy, and ESPECIALLY with me being the PR that I am, and that we’d be in Lylo Day 3 if I die before the Night, I have a very vested interest in this town NOT lynching the wrong guy right now. So I’m very excitable right now.

Incidentally, Quintastic, what do you think of Mustilicor and Samp using Andrius's AtE to drop their suspicions and leap over to your wagon?]/quote]
Well as I’ve said before, I’ve got way too much confidence in Mustilicor as town to vote for her no matter how many times she jumps on my bandwagon. You already know I believe SAMP and Anti to be scum. So SAMP jumping on my wagon as the obligatory OMGUS for my vote against him doesn’t surprise me at all. While Mustilicor is just jumping on anything she finds remotely scummy. I can’t implicate her for that.

Obviously, if Quintastic is around D-3, then something is up, and that's when we're better off going after him, not now D-2. But if he survives to D-3, even that is not for certain. But at that point his claim will need a SERIOUS SERIOUS look, to see if anything he's ever said or done this game could possibly contradict or weaken the claim.

In short, it's widely considered better play to accept the claim for now, because having him survive to D-3 should set off sirens.

This actually reads to me that you could very well be our scum. Because it seems obvious to me, strategically, that Mafia can have it both ways here. They can either kill me off, and continue to hide in the shadows. Or they can easily leave me alive, which would instantly implicate me as scum.
So let’s assume the latter happens. That means TODAY is our lylo. Because if we mislynch today, and I live through the night, I become the obvious lynch tomorrow, and that’s game over. If they have a roleblocker it’s even EASIER for them to do this strategy. Because they can just roleblock me to prevent my protections, so they don’t have to kill me. I stay alive on Day 3, am quick-lynched for being the scummiest, and town loses. So for you to instantly condemn me as scum if I live throughout the night, without considering if the Mafia could have a roleblocker that allows me to live, makes me believe this is exactly what you plan to do tonight, Civil Scum.

My vote remains on Antifinity. Because I believe we get the most information out of his lynch over you. There is no way that I am believing that both Antifinity AND Andrius are scum. So if Anti flips town, Andrius HAS to be scum. If he flips scum, then it heavily implicates everyone who was ignoring my warning that Anti was obvscum. Especially SAMP who has openly admitted that he has been defending Antifinity since Day 1. In the mean time,

Hand Of Suspicion: Civil Scum.

[The Quintastic One]

TQO: I think I've made my position pretty clear on this one. Almost certainly scum, making a desperate power role claim and getting lucky. I'll admit the possibility that he isn't scum, but even if he is innocent, then wouldn't we want to establish that now? If the scum follow the strategy he suggested, then lynching him tomorrow will guarantee we lose, but if we lynch him today, then the consequences would be no worse than lynching any other townie, since he has negated his ability, both by being role blocked and by making his protection target very obvious.

So basically you're admitting that you're going to be roleblocking/nightkilling me, whatever fits your agenda best, and that town should lynch me today, sending us into Lylo Day 3, and making your job alot easier to nightkill someone tonight. Right. Can we lynch this guy already?

You have a very powerful tool in a confirmed town player, regardless if my ability is useless at Night. I basically become a confirmed Vanilla Townie that the Mafia HAS to either roleblock or kill to get rid of for good.

You the town have 2 options at this point. You can follow Antifinity, and kill me, and go into Lylo, but you still have a slight chance to win. Or you can kill scum, preferably Antifinity scum, and be ahead of the game with Day 3 regardless if I die in the night or not, 4 Town Vs. 1 Scum. Giving you two whole Day Phases of Discussion to get it right and nail the last Scum.

So yes, lynching me today there is still a chance to kill Scum if you nail them two days in a row, but keeping me alive and forcing the Mafia to deal with me in some way gives you an extra day to rectify any mislynches.

I am your shock trooper, use me correctly, and we can cripple the Mafia. Misuse me, and the town goes up in flames.

[The Quintastic One]

TQO: I am sorry, but your logic is very bad. Annnd it's pretty clear you're being left alone for today, so there's no need to be defensive just yet.

I disagree. I believe my logic to be solid. I proof read my posts, and the scenario I posted considering your options seems like a good idea to me. But then again I'm used to this. Most Mafia players tend to say that I am Anti-Town, moronic, too scummy to be scum and all that other Jazz. I'm used to it. Because I know that in my mind my logic sounds right, whether everyone else wishes to consider me foolish is irrelevant to me at this point. I'm either Dead by Night or Dead on Day 3. And there's obviously no convincing you of an Obvscum lynch, so I'll just keep my vote on Antifinity and enjoy the rest of the show.

Good luck.

[The Quintastic One]

Because he is scum and it's his job to get the town into a mislynch?

[The Quintastic One]

(they both got riled up, showing some defeatism; (Quintastic just admitted to giving up from the game). (On another note, the similarity of the reaction is consistent with a coaching by Quintastic). I can't also discard some of his theories regarding playstyle and some of his statements due to the reasoning he used. Still, I'm believeing his claim, for now; so andrius is still on top.

I haven't given up on this game. I've given up on the town's ability to lynch obvscum. So my vote is going to remain on Antifinity, and I will let the rest of the chips fall where they may. If I get lynched, I get lynched. If Anti gets lynched, he gets lynched. If another townie gets lynched, then another townie gets lynched. I don't care or support the direction this town goes in anymore, as I know who's my picks for scum. I'll just wait for everyone else to get their picks settled.

[The Quintastic One]

You mean like how Andrius has been throwing around confusion with his wishy washyness and random case against a dead townie? This entire day phase has been filled with WIFOM, confusion, scumtells, roleclaims and ATE. If Andrius or Antifinity are not the scum, then they certainly did a very good job of making sure their activities prevented the town from getting a lead on anybody beyond themselves.

I seriously need to start a debate in the General Discussion as to how we can tell the difference between scummy and Anti-Town.

[The Quintastic One]

I've been rereading the thread a little, and I officially have a headache. I never like to use ad hominem, since that is used against me alot. But seriously, with the way Andrius has been acting, as well as the way Antifinity has been acting (self voting and admitting they think there is only one scum in this game respectively and most recently) I really have to believe that the incompetence levels are just too high for them to be scum and their partner has NOT tried to buss them yet.

I'm keeping my vote on Anti. I am going to stick with my gut and my mind on this one. No matter how much my body is screaming at me to give both of these guys the "too scummy to be scum" card. I can't let this one go. But something just seems to be pounding into my head that we've played this game the entirely wrong way, and allowed ourselves to get distracted by newer players anti-townness rather than focused on actual scumhunting.

So if Anti gets lynched, the only real suspect I have left is Civil Scum. If Andrius gets lynched, then I understand the towns motivations to lynch me. Since I know at this point the Mafia will be keeping me alive in order to condemn me as scum, since that's the smartest thing they could do, and I won't have any evidence to the contrary to convince you otherwise, I know I'm dead Day 3. So you can see how desperately I hang onto Anti's lynch, because if I am somehow by the miraculous fate of God wrong on this one, then I deserve to be lynched on Day 3.

[The Quintastic One]

As for my little "slip" that was because I'd only ever played this game with a single "killer" and so I figured that if we didn't lynch TQO, we would certainly be lynching a townie.

This does not equate......

The reason it was a 'slip-up' rather than an error was because I hadn't been reasoning, I'd just moved on without thinking about it because I forgot there is a second mafia. But yes, I am aware on a logical level that there are two scum, I just didn't think to consider it.

This.

One post you say that the slip is because you've only ever played Mafia where there is one killer, the next post you say that the slip up was because you forgot that there were two scum weren't thinking logically.

Therefore, I can only conclude that you have been changing your story, and thus are lying. Does anybody here subscribe to the "lynch all liars" rule?

[The Quintastic One]

How exactly do those two things contradict each other? That's a surprisingly desperate reach to implicate somebody already at L1.

You can't be serious......



Post #1: I suspect only TQO because I've only ever played in Mafia games where there is one killer.

Post #2: I forgot to mention anyone beyond TQO because I forgot that there was two mafia and wasn't thinking straight.


How do these two points NOT contradict each other? I mean, honestly, and you say you're scumhunting?

[The Quintastic One]

1) Why would you be dead if Andrius was scum? (I don't think you have answered this yet)

I already said earlier I'm not answering anymore questions regarding the Andrius/Myself situation. But I'm feeling good today so I will answer this last question. Because if Andrius was scum when I was at L-1 he would of hammered me to eliminate another town player. And get the Mafia into night phase.

2) On the first part of the quote, you basically say that if any of the two is scum, their partner hasn't tried to buss them yet. Do you believe Andrius/Antifinity is not feasible?

Considering I don't believe a scum gambit regarding a case on a dead townie coupled with some of the most incompetent play outside of myself I have ever seen, I would also say yes to this question. That I do not believe that Andrius and Antifinity are both scum. Only one of them are scum, so if Anti flips town, Andrius is scum.

3) If Anti gets lynched, your only real suspect left is Civil. What about Samp! ? In your pbp analysis, he rated pretty high.

SAMP is basically below my radar under Civil since CS's post where he says that I'm basically tomorrows Lynch if Mafia leaves me alive makes me believe that is exactly what Civil Scum plans to do. Kill a different townie in the night, leave me alive so that if we're in lylo, scum wins since I can't fight out of that hole. Since I am so sure that Anti is scum at this point, I can't possibly implicate both SAMP AND Civil Scum as mafia. One of them will have to take precedence, and right now I'm leaning CS.


4) Following the same line of thought, if Anti gets lynched (and eventually flips mafia as you believe he will), your next suspect is Civil. However, Civil is an IC, and supposedly the player who has the most experience and that would be more likely to buss/coach Antifinity, specially during the Night Stage. Don't you think this is a little contradictory? (= care to elaborate?)

I don't believe this late in the game that CS being our IC should have any bearing as to whether or not you feel comfortable challenging anything he says that may be suspicious. That would be bad IC play if he were leaning on his usefulness as an experienced player in order to keep him alive. So that's a non-factor in my scumhunting. As for bussing, it would be too dangerous for CS to do that at this point because that would be a radical shift in his current playstyle. Since he's played throughout most of the game just posting one giant wall of text every day or so with no real set goals in mind.


Just one more note on the whole L-1 thing since alot of people seem to be content to criticize me for my continual pushing of the Anti lynch despite him being at L-1, we've already had myself and Andrius at L-1 today and the town let us go for various reasons. So if I were to just sit back and be content with Anti being at L-1 and say "job well done TQO" then I would be failing my responsibility to push the lynches I believe in in order to lynch scum. If you have any reasonable doubt as to why Anti should be lynched, then you need to unvote for him, now. Because if you don't really believe in your vote, then you shouldn't be using it. But if you DO believe that Anti is our scum like I do, then you need to place your vote on him and get this gravy train rolling.

[The Quintastic One]

....they read to me as different wordings of the same damned thing.

First, he says he's only ever played mafia where there was one killer. Then this is attacked. He expands by saying that well yeah, he KNEW there were two, but forgot. Presumably due to - gasp - having only ever played mafia where there was only one killer.

My vote is already on him and isn't moving, but your current argument is a reach.

My current argument is yet another scumtell stacked upon a mountain of scumtells that have been accumulated throughout this day and the last day phase that continues to aid my case. The fact that you call it a reach is laughable. It's yet another slip up that you feel comfortable sweeping under the rug. I believe in giving people a free pass maybe the first, 2 or 3 scumtells they give. But when every single post they make screams scum, it's time to lynch.

[The Quintastic One]

What am I sweeping under the rug? Look at my vote. What is a reach is declaring this a LIE rather than floundering to explain an early contradiction and calling for a policy lynch.

Just because you are voting for somebody doesn't mean you believe in their lynch. Especially if you are scum. If you think Anti is the scummiest then why are you discrediting everyone elses vote on Anti beyond your own? I am solidifying my beliefs, and instead of trying to find more evidence that you are confident in Anti being scum you'd rather accuse me of reaching trying to discredit my own reasons for voting Anti despite the fact that we are both fighting for the same cause. Seems hypocritical to me.

Unvote:

This is my last gambit on Antifinity. I am not unvoting because I believe him to be town. I am unvoting because it's obvious that the town is not willing to lynch him. I am giving a prospective member of the town a chance to vote for Antifinity if they wish to do so to put him at L-1. The only caveat? I WILL be quickhammering him with a vote as soon as he is put back on L-1. This way I can take the heat for his lynch so nobody else has to feel the pressure of his hammer like Andrius had to do with Triple M. I'm already pre-determined by the town to be Day 3's Lynch so I have nothing to lose my hammering Anti.

If you do not vote for Antifinity I politely ask that you vote for me. I do not wish to stick around for Day 3 just because you won't consider the possibility of me being alive the next Day Phase despite that obviously being scums strategy. So if it clears my name once and for all and shows everyone that I am not lying and that my claim is true, then I willing to put us into Lylo since you refuse to believe any evidence less than a death sentence.


So there's your ultimatum. Lynch me, or Lynch Antifinity. I will be sorely disappointed in you as a town if you refuse to lynch either of us.

[The Quintastic One]

And no, I'm not answering anymore questions regarding the post above. I don't care about your analysis on me or anyone else. If you believe me to be scum, vote for me. If you believe Antifinity to be scum, vote for him. But I am not going to help you gain anymore information when you should have all the evidence you need at this point to implicate myself or my target.

[The Quintastic One]

Activity post. You all know who I believe to be scum. I've got nothing more to say.


No, I'm not going to hammer Andrius. I view him to be town. But at this point I would be more comfortable if you would all just lynch me since the Mafia's going to keep my alive through Day 3 anyway, and I could quote the Mod's PM to you (despite being against the rules) and you STILL wouldn't believe that I really am the power role I claim to be. So either way you will either lynch me today, or you'll lynch me tomorrow. I cannot be mentally invested in a game where I'm already pre-condemned to being scum without any way to prove otherwise.

Which makes me want to hammer Andrius anyway, in order to get this day phase over with, if he flips town then I can just be the sacrificial lamb on Day 3 in Lylo and you guys can lose this game without ever lynching a single scum. But I'm still not going to hammer Andrius. Because I still have an inkling of faith that you will turn around and lynch the Obvscum before it's too late.

[The Quintastic One]

To Civil Scum: Gut reads can be right alot of the time, but they are very hard to convince others of because that's all they are. Gut reads. I've heard many stories of townies that had gut reads of scum, who were actually scum, but had no evidence to back it up, and thus couldn't lynch who they really thought is scum.

That's a problem I am seeing in this game especially since the stagnation has caused even the vote counts to come to a grinding halt. Everyone is analyzing and rebutting and presenting counter arguments discrediting everyone's votes on everyone. Which makes reads alot harder to do. Since for the most part on this day both yourself, Mustlicor and Exilon have all been posting your thoughts and analysis but you're not really committing to a lynch or pushing for who you believe to be scummy. For the most part all of your activities this day have involved simply discrediting everyone elses suspicions instead of developing your own, which makes you look scummy. In my opinion.


So with your recent pressure on Exilon, and SAMP's gutread on you, let me get this straight. All throughout Day 2 all we have accomplished this entire game is the fact that we believe everyone, even the protecting role, to be scummy? We've basically come full circle to a stagnant and frozen spiral of confusion and uncertainty. Because if EVERYONE is painted as scum, then nobody can be voted as scum. And not to toot my own horn, but I've been the ONLY one with a consistent read on someone who's willing to stick to his opinion.

We could REALLY use a fresh vote count.

As there hasn't been one for several days now, and if it lasts through til the weekend with still no vote count, I'll probably have no choice but to believe this game has been abandoned.

Either way, I can't make a definitive action at this point until we DO get that vote count. Because if Antifinity ends up at L-1 then he's dead. But I can't make that choice until I know for sure I am dealing the killing blow on our first scum.

[The Quintastic One]

Since for the most part on this day both yourself, Mustlicor and Exilon have all been posting your thoughts and analysis but you're not really committing to a lynch or pushing for who you believe to be scummy. For the most part all of your activities this day have involved simply discrediting everyone elses suspicions instead of developing your own, which makes you look scummy.

[...]

And not to toot my own horn, but I've been the ONLY one with a consistent read on someone who's willing to stick to his opinion.

I do not think having absolute confidence in your analysis and lambasting those who disagree is quite as pro-town as you believe it is. And how long you hold a conviction has nothing to do with how right it is.

This goes for Andrius too: I present my concerns as they come up, for the most part. Before placing my vote, I deliberately ensured unchallenged oddities remaining were addressed. I used all of this to decide that Antifinity was more worthy of my vote than any of my other considerations.

My argument is out there in my previous posts. I have nothing to add to it at this time. This is why I am more quiet than I have been, and why I will continue to be.

As for 'discrediting' others, the fact that I am done wading through old concerns for now does not mean I will not address new concerns that present themselves. I

will

pick apart suspect reasoning. Just because I am voting for someone else at the moment does not make others safe. I am still looking around for number two, or even numbers one and two if it turns out I am incorrect about Antifinity (I acknowledge this possibility, and this acknowledgment should not be assumed to mean anything except that I know my own damned limitations).


I am not going to sit around and let somebody who I do not suspect at all be lynched. But I am perfectly okay with the majority of the town having a first suspect in my second suspect, and I am not going to fight it.

So basically, TL;DR, "I'm going to continue to discredit other peoples suspicions no matter how valid they are thereby preventing anyone from being confident in their suspicions to continue to grind this game to a screeching halt"

Gotcha.

[The Quintastic One]

Honestly I don't believe anyone's been leading this town towards any particular lynches. I've tried to get us to lynch obvscum but it just aint working.

On that note, we got ourselves an updated vote count.


Sorry to do this to you Andrius, as I believe you to be town. But this game has suffered extreme stagnation to the point where all we are discussing is Exilon Vs. Civil Scum on Exilon's posting style rather than actually scumhunting. So since I know that I am going to be the automatic lynch on Day 3 in Lylo and this town is going to lose without lynching a single scum, I might as well get the engine running on this failboat. Starting with you. Despite what other people may think I think you played a good game, and did your best to scumhunt even in the face of adversity.

Vote: Andrius

To the scum: You obviously don't want to kill me tonight. If you have a roleblocker, just roleblock me and kill whoever else in this town you wish. Town have lost this game, you win. Just sit back, relax, and let me be lynched Day 3. Good game.

[The Quintastic One]

Any and all questions regarding how Exilon could improve upon his playstyle can be discussed in the end game. I hardly think that it's worth waiting in game for him to get some coaching tips from Civil Scum when that business is done later.

[The Quintastic One]

Why would you hammer someone you believe to be town?! I cannot get over how silly that is. Was just waiting for a quick nod from everyone and the day would have been done unless something big was presented. What if SAMP! miraculously had something that would turn everything around forever?? Agh agh agh *fret*

If SAMP has any sort of amazing evidence that will implicate scum on Day 3 then he can present it on Day 3. You all seem so confident that Andrius is scum so why are you fretting? Because you know that Andrius is town and you're trying to backpedal away from your earlier suspicions of him to look more town going into Day 3? Alas. These are all questions that will have to wait, as we shouldn't even be talking during twilight.

[The Quintastic One]

To Mustilicor: Of course I understand why you're frustrated with the Andrius lynch, I just don't care. If he turns up scum (unlikely) then you can rest at ease. If he turns up as town (far more likely) then my purpose has already been stated and completed. I.E., I know I'm the auto-lynch on Day 3 no matter what happens. You yourself were going to lynch Andrius, except you were waiting on more repetitive analysis and for Civil Scum to blatantly participate in coaching of Exilon in mid game. Hence why I get mega scum vibes from you now, as you might of been trying to manipulate things so that the town IC could be coaching your scumbuddy Exilon. It makes sense since all both of you have done all game is discredit everyone elses opinions of your own and made sure that nobody could be sure of anybodies lynch at any time.

And now you gave us that little gem about how you don't even trust your OWN mind. Cute. So basically nobody has good reasons for voting, not even yourself? So very cute. And scummy.


To Exilon: I already answered your question. You can ask any and all questions regarding your playstyle after you lynch me and this game is over. Your argument with Civil Scum over your playstyle was nothing but fluff and stalling from the both of you because nobody knew how to actually stick to their vote so you decided it was time to discuss Mafia Theory instead of actual scumhunting. THAT'S what I call stagnation.

[The Quintastic One]

I was hoping to get another chance to defend Andrius (although admittedly it would just be the same defense as the one I used in 211 except worded differently) but oh well.

... more like another chance to try and make it look like you're town.
Can you all hurry up and hang me, officially? XD

That's going to depend on Zorblag. He needs to do the write up.

[The Quintastic One]

Yep.

I protected Super Awesome Mega Pimp on night 2. As Mustilicor's actions during the end of Day 2 had me lose any town tell I had for her. I wouldn't say I would of pushed for her lynch on Day 3, as I still was super convinced that Antifinity was scum and would of hammered him in a heartbeat. So well played by the scum on this one. Although I feel they had a slight unfair advantage with Civil Scum being the IC, as in my experience in newbie games scum IC's always last til near the end game because the newbies arn't willing to be suspicious of the most useful player, and if they are, they refuse to put a vote on them because this sites overarching meta suggests that it's anti-town to vote for your IC unless they are blatantly scum.

Not to mention the fact that Mustilicor is going to be an awesome mafia player for games to come. So with Andrius and Antifinity being your typical "too scummy to be scum" archtypes, and SAMP and Exilon not quite being forceful or convincing enough to be the necessary town leaders, as well as my own frustration at nobody believing my doctor claim, the town just didn't have any strong players capable of lynching Mustilicor and Civil Scum even if they wanted to.

I'm not saying this in a complaining matter, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. But looking back and seeing who the scum were in comparison to who the town were, we didn't stand a chance from the get go.

[The Quintastic One]

Also, consider this added to my meta that once again I've proven every time I claim a role I am always right, as I never false claim as scum. lol. I'm hoping to eventually build up a meta of claiming over 50 times and still be killed for it, until someone eventually realizes I tell the truth when I claim. lol.

[The Quintastic One]

Quintastiiiiic, you can't be so danged sure of stuff! There's just no way to justify the certainty you seemed to display. But I suppose that was obvious enough when Antifinity flipped town.

Except for the fact that I was 100% right about Andrius and I being town. I also was highly suspicious of Civil Scum but everytime he rebuttled I told myself (that's right. he's an IC, he's going to know much more about mafia theory than I am so there's no use being a one man case against him). That's what I meant by scum having an advantage this game.

Yes I was wrong about Antifinity, but considering if the town would of listened to me and lynched Antifinity on Day 2, then the Mafia kill me on Night 2, the town would of seen that the Andrius/Quintastic scumteam was not a possibility, and we then could of focused on more suspicious targets.

But that's all woulda/coulda/shoulda. The only thing I regret is that I feel very dirty thinking that Mustilicor was town til the end.

[The Quintastic One]

Lol. I'm still in debate as to whether the fire and ice mafia I am currently playing is the last mafia game I will be playing on this site. All in all I've had more bad experiences playing this game than good. But even in a losing effort, this game was a good one and everyone played their parts to the best of their abilities.

[The Quintastic One]

Same actually. I'd love to start modding and get some themed games in. But the waiting list to mod a game is soooooo long. Not to mention the exhausting approval process you have to go through with the List Mods in order to actually get your set up out the door. So if you have the patience and will power to go through that, I'll sign up for one of your games. I guess we'll see who gets there first! lol.