Newbie 917 - Game over.

[Andrius]

Someone's killing the mods, eh?

VOTE:EXILON

[Andrius]

That said, I would like to hear posts from thatguy, antifinity, and

andrius

in the near future (next day or so). Lurking does make me a sad panda. Obviously none of them could even remotely be called lurkers, but I just mean that one post a piece and then nothing for 4 or 5 days would make me worry that we are going to have some inactive players which is always negative for a game.

I'm here. Granted, I don't think I'm "lurking". I'm watching the conversation, and since I have nothing worthwhile to post then I don't bother. I mean, I could just be all "good idea" or "nice line" but that won't contribute to anything besides portraying myself as easily manipuatable and shallow. I don't mean to be inactive; I could post here a whole ton, but I just don't have much to say at this point, being a n00b. XD So I'm kind of watching you three do your thing. But if you'd feel safer with me sticking around I can do that too.

I agree with the unvoting thing, but I think that a mass unvote that was called by Quintastic isn't the best way to go about this. His calling for unvoting could be a ploy to get votes off him/herself or his/her possible "scum buddy" [though I'm not accusing you of being scum], but it is logical, now that we're a couple days in to call off the I'll consider it. As for that, I'm here.

[Andrius]

Just to clarify, I didn’t call for a mass unvote. I myself chose to unvote since we were out of the RVS and I guess others followed suit. The main reason I did that was because Super Pimp’s vote was on Triple M and so was mine, but my vote was an RVS joke vote and I didn’t want a bandwagon to build up that I didn’t truly feel was worthy of my vote.

Yeah, sorry about that. I reread it and it wasn't a call. ^^;

see, I hadn't thought of that that way. Although I don't think he called a mass unvote (he already 'stated it', but this is my opinion), he just unvoted first and others kinda did the same...

Yeah, he didn't call. But its an interesting tactic. First off, he's a SE [right?] so he has a bit more know-how than the rest of us. Secondly, it allows him to keep the mafia in line, assuming that they would follow along with any town-trend like mass unvoting, to avoid suspicion. Lastly, it would allow him to see who else would follow his lead. If we all decided to unvote, then he knows that we take him seriously, and follow his advice, making us usable.

Vote: Super Awesome Mega Pimp! so I'm not the only one at L3 and I'll stop feeling lonely up here.

1: What's L3?
2: At this point, Antifinity has the most influence over us, since he has the earliest vote in a tie.
3: Where is Antifinity? Has he posted at all yet?

And finally, something just occured to me.
SAMP voted for Exilon sometime after I did, right? And by doing so Exilon was then placed in the first position to be lynched, since my vote was the first one, therein making Exilon the first lynching candidate at that moment. He then shifted his vote to MMM around the time the unvoting began. It seems scummy, but it is early in this DP for that... what do you all think? I'm not sure it warrants an unvote, but it is better than just the RVS perhaps.

[Andrius]

I think SAMP is pretty erratic, first voting Exilon for weird reasoning, then voting me when I pointed out it was weird reasoning.

But it doesn't mean that he's scum, he could just be a crazy RVS'er or an obnoxious person or just strategic...

[Andrius]

As much as I want to think SAMP's mafia, he probably isn't...

But then again, we're probably going to wind up lynching a Townie anyway... and it is just a game... idk.
*sigh* /complicated

Oh, and I changed my avatar, for those who recognize me based on that. XD

[Andrius]

Andrius, Exilon, and Antifinity: Do you actually believe your votes are currently on the individuals most likely to be scum, or are you simply retaining your RVS votes? If the answer is the second, why do you think this is preferable to your RVS vote? (If you're lurking and reading out there, thatguy00, this question is for you too, but for now I'm just assuming your vote is where it started because that's the only time you were here.)

My reason for maintaining my vote is twofold:
1) So I don't show a vulnerability to giving in to the will of others, aka, showing myself to be use-able.
2) My vote can be seen as the most powerful vote, in this moment, since I currently hold the earliest cast vote [#2]. If I remove my vote, this falls to thatguy00, who is being prodded. In that case, the vote falls to MMM, who by you has been called most scummy. Granted, this little power is not a weapon to be wielded or a threat in any way [except a vote against Exilon]. I will probably change it, but I'm not too keen to do so now... I'm being stubborn, as this move is rather pointless, unless Exilon becomes more scum-like.

Andrius: What is it about SAMP that makes you say he probably isn't mafia?

I'm not sure. I have a feeling about him. I think he could be mafia; he's one of our top two candidates. But I also think that its a bit too easy- like the golden idol in the opening sequence of Indiana Jones. I'm not sure...


For now I'll re-evaluate my vote and read up on MMM, as I haven't payed much attention to him... either way, good work Mustilicor.

[Andrius]

Fortunately that random verb dropping didn't seem to throw off Andrius, but I thought I'd clarify it for you other two.

Yeah, I figured that's what you wanted; like the "Do as I say, not as I do."

But you can't say "Since there's one possibility of town play and one of scum play, the read is null.". In the end, he played as ONE of those possibilities. He is either Town or Scum. He cannot be Null.

But even if we count the "null" as mafia alignments, then MMM still gets the noose...
Hmm...

Similar to what Andrius said; even if I'm retaining my RVS vote, it is not totally unreasonable because he is lurking; also, since I don't like to jump (I like for my votes to have solid reasoning, or at least a very good purpose), and I'm still waiting for a little more development between Samp! and MMM.

Yeah, if I unvote then the alpha-vote [if I can coin that] goes to thatguy00, who isn't exactly a shining bastion of townie-ness, IMO.

[Andrius]

While easily coincidence, I wasn't particularly keen on andrius admitting to lurking after several lurking=/=scummy sentiments had been posted. The
congratulation of his "interagator" also seems a little out of place. And his response to mustilicor's question left something to be desired.

Wait, I'm not sure I understand. What are you implying? What does "interagator" mean? And what question was this? Sorry for not living up to your standards.

I'm not sure what you mean. Why would you consider null aspects of an argument to be scummy?

No, someone asked why Mustilicor included the Null data, to which I responded with that, saying that if we considered the neutral null votes as mafia MMM still has more.

I'd tend to hammer vote if the possibility came up, just so we can progress the game faster, would that get me portrayed as scummy?

Its called "speed lynching" and is generally seen as a scummy thing to do.

Lastly, can I assume everyone is at least claiming to be a vanilla townie? No one is claiming/pretending to be doctor or anything like that right off, right?

No one is claiming, unless you want me to, then I can claim Jailkeeper. But yeah, its generally not done this early on.

Interesting. If I'd noticed the significance of vote order before unvoting myself, it's a move I might have been tempted to go for as well. It's one of those things where there's only a very, very small chance of it confering an advantage.... but why give up that small possibility before you have to?

Exactly. In a game where the vanilla townies have little "extra" power, having the alpha-vote is a bit of an advantage, even in the one condition. It does me no good, seeing as Exilon's not being scummy, besides keeping the vote from passing to the prodded thatguy00.

Wooo. That.. I can see how that could have just been confusion, Antifinity, but overall that was an insanely scummy post. Cripes.

Yeah. My thoughts exactly.

[Andrius]

Exilon doublepost! XD

Wow. Antifinity, I'm blown away with just how scummy you are. I considered the possibility that you would just fake being mafia, just for fun, but there's really no point in doing that, as you'd tick us and His Highness, Zorblag, off.

MMM said:

Meh. Antinfinity looks newbie town for me. Or newbie anyway. I'm not getting much of a scum vibe.

SAMP still looks like the most iffy to me.

Hmmm... you would say this if Anti were your scum-buddy. And you'd beat on SAMP just because he's the other closest player to being lynched.

For now, I'm going to be choleric.

UNVOTE, VOTE: MYSTERIOUS MYSTERY MAN

I feel that, as of now, Antifinity and MMM are the scummiest, with SAMP just being weird (for lack of a better word). And since MMM has more votes, I'll vote on him. Besides, if MMM is the mafia, then the other person (who probably is a newbie, as dictated by simple math) would be without the help of their SE.

Alright. Let's see what happens now.
And I'm still waiting for Civil Scum to tell me what he thinks of me.

[Andrius]

MMM said

scummyscummyscummybandwagonscummyandriusisscummy!

L1 at page 4? You are taking this stuff WAY too seriously. I'm not even sure who looks the scummiest at this point, but Andrius is a big candidate. That was a very risky vote.

Yeah, it was risky, so is every vote. I mean, SAMP is taking heat for voting and unvoting and voting and voting again. thatguy00 is taking heat for not being here, and not voting.

I'm looking at this from a mathematical view, akin to Mustilicor and logic.
There are nine of us here.
So, there's about a 75% chance that we'll lynch a vanilla townie, no matter what. 75% because of 6/8. 8 people due to the fact that one of us is absent, and we're not going to kill him based off his sheer absence.
MMM, nothing against you, but whatever we do will, stastistically, result in a vanilla townie being hung.

I voted for you. I would have been #3 instead of #4 except I had to log back in [internet connection issue] when Exilon ninja'd me (aka, posting right when I was going to). My reasoning: I think that you and Anti are the mafia. Whacking you is better because:
-You're the SE. You have more experience than Anti, and are therein a more dangerous opponent.

It came down to you and Anti, and you're the bigger threat, ruling out the fact that I could OMGUS for Civil Scum because he doesn't like me. So it came down to voting for you.

Mustilicor said

Andrius: We are at no risk for a no-lynch. Why go with the guy with the most votes?

How is it possible to no-lynch? Everyone's voted for someone, and there's no possible way to tie, with the alpha-vote. Explain please.

[Andrius]

No big. We all doublepost. XD

As for hammering, it happens. Why do you want to let MMM have a say; of course he's going to say no to hammering! We'd all not want to get ourselves killed, unless you were a Vengeful Townie or something. XP
You want me to unvote? I'll do it, though it'll look scummy.
I want two people to tell me to unvote, or I won't do it.
Because if I unvote then two people would still have to vote for MMM, painting themselves scummy. What are we supposed to do, not lynch anyone for fear of being seen as scummy? Then the mafia will NK us one by one while we wave "No Lynch" signs all day.


Sorry about my choleric-ness. I'm in a bad mood for personal reasons, [there's this girl, see], and I'm alot more impulsive and less pensive when I'm in this state.

...This just seems... a little weird reasoning. I'm tempted to ask who would you vote for if SAMP! was the one with most votes; it seems that that's what you're implying. (That you voted for him because he has the most votes).
Also, I wouldn't so easily assume that the scum is a pairing of SE and newbie or IC-newbie. You never know what you might get; it seems like you're looking for a quick way to solve this game... :s

Its alright; its a matter of life or death for MMM.
I see it as such: MMM and Anti are mafia. That's my gut feeling. Last time I played this [with friends, so it was easier] I had a gut feeling and guessed both mafia correctly. Needless to say I was promptly Night Killed.
I'm not assuming the pairing of newbie and SE; it is how I see it. Anti's already painted himself semi-scummy, and he is a new player. IF MMM is a mafia, then the other mafia loses out on a partner and an experienced player.
As for your question, I wouldn't just impulsively vote for SAMP! like that. I'd look into his posts. Quintastic saw Anti as mafia so he voted for them. I saw MMM's line as scummy, as tied into Anti's posts, and voted for him.

This is really long. Sorry about that. If two of you call for me to unvote then I will. [Excluding MMM for obvious reasons, since anyone in his position wouldn't want to die. ]

[Andrius]

You're forgetting the 'possibility' that the absent player could be scum.

Yeah, I noticed that afterwards... D:

[Andrius]

UNVOTE

There.
Done deal.
And I have no qualms with revoting for him, let that be known.
Sorry I'm being really b!tchy today; this girl is driving me crazy. >:|

Reasons for voting:
-We're not getting anywhere sitting here.
-I personally think that Anti and MMM are the scum.
-MMM has more of a "fanbase" than Anti does.
-MMM has more experience than Anti, and should be eliminated first.

Reasons for unvoting:
-I'm not the only one playing; we're all in this together, and as such, I should give the other players the time they want to analyze the situation.

My Goal:
-To act unemotionally; or to not let my playing style be meddled with based on my mood.

I think that's good for now.
And I really want to know what C.S. thinks of me now. XP

[Andrius]

Wow. I unvoted and look what happened. Antifinity got hella' smart and is confusing everyone.

Heya' McGriddle.

I have no idea what to do now... 78% we lynch a vanilla townie.

[Andrius]

I'm still leaning Anti + MMM. Unless we get any great analysis or someone says something hintful, I don't see us getting anywhere anytime soon.

And btw, Mustilicor is definitely an early candidate for MVP of this game. Town or scum, he's been playing great.

I'd like to second this.

[Andrius]

Yeah, I really screwed myself over with that one line. Oh well, I'm still a n00b. XD

Can I be a replacement if this is my first game, or is that not allowed?

[Andrius]

MMM said

Looking more closely at Andrius. He's been bandwagoning a far bit.

Technically, MMM, I've only voted twice, one RVS and the other was me going to vote but being ninja'd, so my vote put you at L1 instead of L2. So its not like I'm going along with whatever just to do it. I was going to vote for you anyway. : P

Mustilicor said

R-really? Eee. Your flattery has found its mark. Its female mark, I suppose I should clarify. I feel all fuzzy now, and slightly guilty for making my last post while so distracted. Apparently I have set a standard for myself to live up to..!

Yeah, you're playing really well, as of now.

Mustilicor said

Where does this number come from? Of course I'm pretty certain I'm guilty of writing the entirely wrong number in one of my posts before, but I'm still curious if that's not what happened.

78% comes from 7/9. If we hang randomly, we're 78% likely to hang a vanilla townie.

Mustilicor said

Hm. Well, what was your logic on that one line? Just an emotional need to get the game moving? I understand being frustrated with the stall, I suppose.

Yeah, pretty much. Its going really slow, I was in a bad mood, and I wanted to get a move on things. XP and I recognize that it was a scummy move, but if we don't vote out of fear that we'll be seen as scummy then we'll never vote.

Mustilicor said

I think my opinion on whether this was a 'n00b'y scum sclip or a 'n00b'y impatience will have to wait until we see how MMM flips. If he is in fact scum, I couldn't see you wanting to off him on Day 1 as his teammate, so you'll be cleared in my eyes.

... You're saying that MMM has to be scum in order for me to be cleared... great...

I'm going to vote, again, soon. But no one's going to want to place the last vote on MMM if I vote now... D:

[Andrius]

Exilon: YOU NINJA'D ME AGAIN!! XD

[Andrius]

We can vote out of safe reasoning. ...right? xD

Exactly. XD Because we know everyone's roles for sure. XD /sarcasm

[Andrius]

Yeah, I'd even take it down to 5/7, since there's one person that everyone's hesitant to vote for, for one reason or another. That places it closer to 71%, which is still high, but doable.

Personally, I feel as though we have a 2/7 chance of lynching a mafia. That's 29%. First is the fact that you wouldn't normally vote for yourself. Then there's the person you won't for, as you think they're a townie, or relatively certain, enough to not vote for them.

As for the hesitance to vote, I also think that no one really wants to take on the "scumminess" of placing the last vote

needed to lynch someone, in case that person turns out to be a townie. I mean, look at me. I placed a vote on MMM, wiping your suspicion away. Then I'm classified as "scummy". If MMM is a mafia, I'm cleared. If MMM's a townie, then I'm in hot water.

Well.. yes. Sorry! It's a game where you have to be suspicious of everyone. ^^; Don't take it as I'll definitely see you as scum if he does flip town though. I just won't be able to completely disregard the dogpiling.

Yeah, I don't know what to do at this point. D:

[Andrius]

Oh geez. Um, tell me what a VT is and a PR and I'll answer. : P
...
Or give me a minute and I'll go look them up.

[Andrius]

Got it. VT = Vanilla Townie and PR = Power Role.

If I were a VT, then in order to preserve my own life I'd say I'm a VT.
HOWEVER, given that the VT doesn't act alone, and that there are 6 other players on the Townie team, and the fact that you "win" even if you're a dead Townie:
Then I guess it would be better to claim a power role assuming that:
-the real holder of this role does not claim as well
-and that the mafia take the bait.

Its a risk, either way.
I don't think that the real holder of the role would claim, as they would be risking themselves. Besides, a doctor's only good to the town as anonymous, and the sheriff claim is a risk regardless.
The mafia would then have to take the bait, which is entirely up to them.

So, in the end, I'd fakeclaim a power role [I know which I'd claim too] and hope that my efforts were not in vain. Granted, McGriddle, this is the "right" answer, if there is one, but I'm working out a plan now, for this vote here, and you helped me out a bit, so thanks.

[Andrius]

And BTW: I have no problems hammering Triple M at this point since I still subscribe to the possibility of a MMM/Anti scumteam. I can take the heat of a hammer. All I've been waiting on is McGriddle.

I'm considering this too, though I'm working the possibly casualty list out now...

[Andrius]

And another thing.
How do you guys get your quotes to say "Andruis wrote:". Mine all say "Quote:". D:

[Andrius]

except you put a "before and after the name

Oh thanks.

[Andrius]

Sooo... what/who are we waiting for now?

[Andrius]

Well, there's really not much I can do by myself, so someone will have to go and unvote. Or we can all wait until March 12th.

[Andrius]

Technically, you need to unvote too, Griddle. XD

[Andrius]

Its ok. No big deal.

Now. I wanted to give MMM a chance to say something before I did this.
I feel as though I should be the one to place this last vote, since Mustilicor said that my fate hangs in the balance of this lynching.

VOTE: Mysterious Mystery Man

Reasoning:
-I think he's scum.
-I'm already seen as scummy for doing this, so that doesn't hold me back. I feel as if I don't do this, I'll be saying that I'm too afraid of being seen as scummy to vote. I think that we have to overcome the fear of being seen as scummy in order to win as the town, because if we don't vote out of fear of being labelled as scum, we're never going to vote, and we will lose.
-Yeah, I put myself in a bad position, but as Mustilicor said, if MMM’s a townie than I’m in serious trouble, whether I place this vote fourth, fifth, or not at all. So I’m really S.O.L. if MMM’s a townie, I guess.

Well, MMM, if you are a townie, then you'll probably see me hanging here after a little while. D:

[Andrius]

Man, SAMP! you're really out to get me, huh? XD

Let's see: SAMP!, Civil Scum, Mustilicor, McGriddle, and I all voted for MMM to kick the can. McGriddle's dead. I thought he was the scum, who was manipulating me. I wrote up this big ol' thing trying to explain my reasoning, but nope; he's dead.

That means SAMP!, Civil Scum, Mustilicor and I are left. Now, if we take Stoofer's crazy-ass law and apply it here, two of us four are mafia. Naturally, we'll all claim that we're town. Though I'm willing to bet that at least one of us four is a scum. I know that I'm not one, and the only way to prove that I'm innocent is for me to die, or for the Sheriff to investigate me and claim and prove my innocence; which isn't going to happen.

[quote="SAMP!]
"I'd fakeclaim a power role". Seriously.
[/quote]

That's the correct thing to do, if you were a town-aligned person. It makes obvious sense. Simple as that.

And finally, I'm glad you seem to think that you've "nailed me" because you haven't. You didn't vote for me. And you can't "nail" me because I'm a townie.
Now, I can OMGUS you. I could also counterattack and say that you were both voting for MMM since the beginning, because you are mafia and you knew he was innocent. I could say that you're out to get me because you're mafia and you know that you can get the others to lynch me.

If my posting of my reasons why I thought McGriddle was a scum would somehow help my case, I will. But for now I'm off to church, and I'll be back later.

[Andrius]

ghgh.

[Andrius]

Sorry, idk what happened with that last post. XD

Well, Quintastic mentioned hammering, only after McGriddle posted his analysis.
I assumed that his analysis was the short thing on his accepting hammering, and then his voting. I took his vote as the culmination of his analysis.

Yeah, I'm really pessimistic now, after having, essentially, failed with MMM. So yeah, if my posts reek of martyrdom, its because I see it as having been a failure on my part. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

Alright. I'll give you my analysis, which basically declared McGriddle as scum. *goes and grabs it*
Here we go:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Alright, I’d like to say that Mustilicor has the right to kill me now. You all do, because of my bandwagon-ing.
However, there’s something I’d like to point out before I get lynched.
I think McGriddle’s scum. Once he came on here you all asked for his opinion; it was an opinion he never really gave.

It seems like Mysterious Mystery Man has posted enough to be active but hasn't given a lot of substance other than the fact that he thinks SAMP is scum. The fact that he is close to being lynched and starts to back of SAMP NOW seems a little fishy to me so I have no problem with the hammer.

This was the analysis we all waited for. It basically said that his great big analysis was that MMM should be lynched. Yes, I was going to vote for MMM no matter what McGriddle said. I was convinced he was scum.
McGriddle, upon voting for MMM and bringing MMM to L1 said:

I enjoyed playing with you. It's pretty clear you will be hammered so goodnight sweet prince.

McGriddle was clearly banking on my support for the hammer, and in a way, hopped on the bandwagon with me.
Now, why could McGriddle depend on my support? Because he read me once he got here. He posed a question to me here, which seemed to be innocent.

@ Andrius - If you were at L-1 and you were a VT but it was inevitable you were going to get lynched would you claim a PR to get a better chance at lynching scum and have the scum waste a NK on a fakeclaimed PR and take one for the team? Or would you continue your prior defense and hope that you will not be lynched, and if you did waste 2 townies in the process?

I then responded:

If I were a VT, then in order to preserve my own life I'd say I'm a VT. HOWEVER, given that the VT doesn't act alone, and that there are 6 other players on the Townie team, and the fact that you "win" even if you're a dead Townie:
Then I guess it would be better to claim a power role assuming that:
-the real holder of this role does not claim as well
-and that the mafia take the bait.

Its a risk, either way.
I don't think that the real holder of the role would claim, as they would be risking themselves. Besides, a doctor's only good to the town as anonymous, and the sheriff claim is a risk regardless.
The mafia would then have to take the bait, which is entirely up to them.

So, in the end, I'd fakeclaim a power role [I know which I'd claim too] and hope that my efforts were not in vain. Granted, McGriddle, this is the "right" answer, if there is one, but I'm working out a plan now, for this vote here, and you helped me out a bit, so thanks.

Now, it was an innocent question, at the time. What was really going on?
I am convinced that McGriddle was going using me. He knew, by simply reading through the past posts, that I had voted for MMM, and MMM was at L1, and that I still thought MMM was scum, despite the unvoting from Mustilicor and myself. He inferred that if MMM got to L1 I’d hammer him dead (which I did, I don’t deny it).
So his next move was to test me, to see what I’d do that next day phase, after the first night. On Day Two, MMM would be long dead, and someone else would have (probably) died during the night. Then, with two townies dead, we’d go back to voting. His question and my reponse went well for him. I basically said that if I were thrust to L1, I’d claim a power role to save the townies from another death. Knowing this, he set me up.
Granted, I voted to lynch MMM on my own free will. He just used this. Quintastic and I both expressed a desire to hammer MMM. I was waiting on the fourth vote. McGriddle provided this, and was waiting for me to follow up (which I did).

So, McGriddle bangwagon-ed, trusting in me to cast the fifth vote. I’m not accusing McGriddle of bangwagon-ing, as I’m guilty of that too. I am simply pointing out the fact that McGriddle was able to foresee my move, and plan accordingly, so that I’d be the last vote needed to lynch MMM, and that he’d set me up to be killed Day Phase Two. Then, since he knew what I would do in Day Phase Two, upon reaching L1, (I stated earlier that I’d claim), he wouldn’t have to waste a Night Kill on me, assuming that the rest of you didn’t lynch me first.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

That's a wrap. This was all assuming, of course, that McGriddle was, in fact, alive. And that probably reeked of martyrdom as well... sorry about that. I had given up all hope, having failed with MMM.

As for you, SAMP!
Sorry, I didn't see that you had voted. XD /fail

[Andrius]

Aaaand evidentially I can't remember how to make the "He wrote" thing work. XD
/fail

Sorry again. Hope that helps, Mustilicor.

Mod Note: Your format was correct. The problem was that the forums didn't like your quotation marks for some reason. If you wrote up your post using any sort of word processor and the copied it to here there's a good chance that it's using a fancier version of " (I've had it happen with MS Word for example.) I've fixed the quotes in your last post.

[Andrius]

First off, thanks to Zorblag for the edit. Yeah, I wrote it up on MS Word once I saw what

happened.

I'm replying in order of posting, so bear with me.

@ Quintastic: I agree that SAMP!'s been acting strange; after voting MMM didn't he disappear, for the most part, and then come back to get on my case? But I won't vote for him out of sheer OMGUS, for now.
In general:
-Can someone explain what "tunneling" is?

Thirdly, I don't think Andrius' case on McGriddles really proves anything. Meaning I don't think it 'proves that andrius isn't scum.' That might hold some water if he had gone that way or posted that D-1. But even then, if he had "suspected" someone hard, that just makes the NK good in that sense. And there's nothing to say he didn't write that up during night time at the suggestion of his scum partner. Yes?

But I had no possible way of knowing that McGriddle would've done that; I was convinced that MMM was scum. After it was revealed that he was a townie, then it was Night Phase, so I was going to post my analysis as soon as I could D2. However, it was McGriddle who died. Had I been able to post that immediately after MMM's innocence, I would have.

Shouldn't he go after the other "hammerer", or the replacer who BW'd with him? Those two looked the worse for the quick-pile. And like Andrius says, he knows he's not one of the stoofer's so... A decent strategy then to claim you were going after the other guy who looked bad for the lynch, when you were the other one?

First, what's BW'ing? Second, you were also on the lynch, so you could be the mafia trying to get me lynched.

I totally missed how strange it was for Andrius' "reasoning" to include so much doubt about MMM's alignment and thoughts around him being town. A good catch imo, and absolutley ridiculous when you say in the same breath that you think that person is scum. If he really had that much doubt about him being scum, then why would he want to hammer so bad. He basically says he's withholding his vote to hammer, he ensures that McGriddles vote is correct as to be counted, and then he hammers....full of doubt?

You forget, CS, that I thought MMM was scum. My analysis was written with the knowledge that MMM was a townie, after my vote. Which is why I sought martyrdom, because I had failed. So, I thought he was scum, enought to lynch him. I know, now, that he was a townie.

Anways, what I didn't miss or what DID strike me when I read andrius' post was the list titled "reasoning" and how it didn't quite match up with "reasons to vote MMM". I didn't take note of how much it mentioned MMM=townie -.-

You mind quoting this for me? I can't seem to find it. D:

'don't worry about voting or hammering, as long as you give some reasons.'

But the mafia can't PM during the DP, right? So the mafia couldn't have set this up beforehand, correct?

If mustilicor is right that andrius has exaggerated it greatly, its yet another thing that looks bad for him.

Let me save you some time. I exaggerated. Sorry, but it was alot of pressure, and I knew that after MMM died as a townie, most of you would come after me. So yeah, I was pretty hopeless about the situation.

I'm not sure where I said I didn't like you...but that's beside the point.

You asked me all these questions, and I asked for clarification, which you never gave. So I was dismayed and confused as to why you asked me all that and then left.

While easily coincidence, I wasn't particularly keen on andrius admitting to lurking after several lurking=/=scummy sentiments had been posted. The
congratulation of his "interagator" also seems a little out of place. And his response to mustilicor's question left something to be desired.

THIS is what I was referring to. You remember this, CS?
But yeah, I'm a bit concerned as to why Mustilicor didn't die, because that's who I thought would get killed.

@ Exilon:

As Samp! said, if he had suspicions that McGriddle was manipulating him, he wouldn’t have gone forth with the vote. As stated several times, it’s always good to hear what everyone thinks. Andrius did not heed that advice and voted immediately; causing the hammer.

After Zorblag declared the results, I basically said "oh shit" and realized that I shot myself in the foot. I then went back to look to read over the past two pages, when I noticed that this great analysis was never actually given. So that bothered me. I've already stated my reasoning, but still; McGriddle stood out for not giving the reasoning, when it came to me that I might have been used, since I was rather outspoken over MMM.

[Andrius]

Sorry, I accidentially posted. Not done yet.

When Mcgridle proposed the L1 situation to Andrius, what he was looking for was a tell; a slip up which almost everyone recognized and pointed out day 2. Therefore, it makes sense McGridle also saw this: what if Andrius was the scum? He then cast the vote; and his real objective was not MMM: it was Andrius reaction. And I might say, I guess he got what he wanted. Andrius proceeded to vote, and ended the day right there. Of course, there was no chance for McGridle to pronounce himself after the day ended; and as most people here say, it was a ‘pretty scummy’ action. This is why he got killed: starting day 2, he would reveal his gambit and hit on Andrius with all his strength, probably causing his lynch. The Mafia saw this, and that’s why they decided their best target was McGridle. I don’t know if this is a bit of a stretch or not, but it makes awful sense.

NICE! Good work there, Exilon! Wow. I've dug my own grave. XD Hurry up and throw me in! I'll add another body to the townie side, and the mafia'll kill another tonight, so then it'll be 3 v 2; still doable. So go ahead, you've still got room for error.

I don't really have anything to say to Mustilicor... I guess... : |
ummm... looks like I'm done, for now.

[Andrius]

Wow, I sound like a martyr. Sorry, I'm not helping the townies at all... /fail
I guess I got to wait for Civil Scum to hop back on, or you all got to question me. I don't really have anything to add right now...

Sorry for my martyrdom.

[Andrius]

Alright, I'm not sure what I should be doing at this point, besides helping the town.
...
I guess I could vote...
...
ummm...
Idk. I could OMGUS SAMP! and Civil Scum.
I could vote Quintastic.

Umm... how best to help the town...
...
I guess I can claim. I'm a Vanilla Townie. Hooray. Big deal, right? XD

I guess... this is the end for me.
Don't be surprised when I'm revealled to be townie.
I guess the best way to help the town is to vote myself dead.

Zorblag, can I vote for myself, and hammer myself? XD

Yeah, so there. I'll be dead soon.
...
I guess that's it.
Let me know if I'm needed, if not, I'll await the lynch.
Fun playing with you guys.

I guess I can go ahead and OMGUS...

Vote: SAMP!

pretty much for jumping on me right after the gates opened. Within the hour, at that. Umm... I guess I'll be cleared when I'm dead, so maybe my death will knock some sense into you.

I think I'm forgetting something... probably something mean and spiteful. Oh well.
Thanks for playing with me, and I hope my lynching helps the town.

Zorblag, after I'm lynched, do I have to wait for this game to be over in order to start a new game / serve as a replacement, or do I have to wait for this game to be 100% over? Thanks for modding Zorblag!

Andrius, out!

[Andrius]

I'm on L1, with you, Exilon, and SAMP voting for me. XD

Yeah, defeatism's a pretty good word.
Idk. I was all prepared to come in, guns blazing at McGriddle. And then that got taken away, so I'm just in utter loss. And you all are going to lynch me anyways, so yeah. Just utter loss...

I did vote for SAMP! right? Good.

[Andrius]

Yeah, you learned something from me. Perhaps I'm not a complete waste after all. XD

What am I doing still here? XD

[Andrius]

XD Now, if I'm correct, both he and me are on L1. XD
With SAMP! on L2.
Should I hammer Quintastic too? XD
I'm losing it. I'm just losing it. XD

[Andrius]

No, he's on L1, thanks to you, and I'm on L2 with SAMP!

[Andrius]

First things first: I could have both hammered myself, and Quintastic, earlier in this page. Maybe I should have hammered Quintastic. That definitely would have gotten me killed, if he were a townie. XD But yeah, I think I've established myself as the final voter. XD

It was a pretty involved theory (although the scum may have just been PR hunting, or eliminating an experienced player coming in with a fresh perspective)
and a possible theory. But I don't understand this quote. Are you agreeing with Exilon here? Are you saying he's right? Is this sarcasm? Then at the end you call your lynch an error? Can you explain what was going through your head when you wrote this?

I was being sarcastic, yet I thought that my death would most benefit the town, so I congratulated him on getting me to L1. Sarcasm, yes. I thought, at the time, that my death would benefit the town, so I said it.
But just throwing away myself isn't exactly helping either, because without me, you all would still be pointing fingers at SAMP!/Anti/Quintastic without a major concentration.

Even though it goes against what I've been saying about Andrius I think it's a fairly strong town tell. Frustration at being a top lynch candidate encourages scum to try even harder to get out of their situation, not to just accept it. It's possible it's a gambit, of course, but I doubt it. He showed signs of martyrdom yesterday ("Well, MMM, if you are a townie, then you'll probably see me hanging here after a little while. D:"), well before he had any reason to believe a martyrdom gambit was his best chance to avoid a lynch. Overall his reaction today supports the idea that he really was paranoid that he'd be a likely D2 lynch if he was wrong about MMM.

Wow, SAMP!, you do have a shred of decency... or is this just a move to get us all thinking that you're not scum, trying to lynch whoever you can, when the "opportune moment" presents itself?

But it should come down to winning, not everyone feeling great all the time. Like you said yourself.

I was all prepared to come in, guns blazing at McGriddle. And then that got taken away, so I'm just in utter loss. And you all are going to lynch me anyways, so yeah. Just utter loss...

Well, your case was pretty solid. I suspect that McGriddles would have been lambasted by several players if he had survived.

And you seemed quite capable in putting it together, and noticing the right things. Which confuses me greatly to hear that you have nothing now. Surely you should be able to do this again? Or atleast something approximating scumhunting?

It's strange to have seen you do it once, and then hear you claim that now you have nothing and are at an utter loss.

So now, I think that whoever killed McGriddle feared the analysis that he may have given. That's the only way I can see the motive to kill McGriddle. Because, if I were mafia, I would have whacked Mustilicor or Civil Scum, because they're good, strong, seemingly-townie players. But if you turn the chessboard around [Umineko no naku koro ni allude] maybe the mafia are hoping that the rest of the town would see Mustilicor as a mafia, since he, a big townie asset, was not killed. Then then the mafia would hope that we would lynch Mustilicor, out of thinking that Mustilicor would have been the first to go.
That's my train of thought.

@ Quintastic: You're lucky I wasn't impulsive enough to hammer you. XD

@ Mustilicor: I think that you're suspicious, being still alive today, but due to the WIFOM I posted a few lines ago, I think you're a townie.

@ SAMP!: I think that your change of heart is very interesting. I almost unvoted you because of it, but I WIFOM/turned the chessboard around and saw that maybe you're trying to just blend in, and make it seem like you're being a thoughtful townie, when you're just a scum who will take the opportunity to jump on a townie early on in the DP, so you're not attacked yourself, while removing the vote to blend in with the townies. Hence, my hesitation to unvote for you.

@ Civil Scum: I think I said everything I needed to say earlier. Ummm... were there any specific questions for me, from you?

@ Antifinity: It seems like when I'm not under fire you are. XD Anyway, I think you're pretty clean, due to my suspicions on the other two.

@ Exilon: Sorry for my outburst after your vote. And sorry for the resignation. As long as I'm not at L1 I'll try to do better. XD And I totally could have hammered Quintastic, earlier.

So, my analysis. I'm suspecting SAMP! and Quintastic seperately, though SAMP! more for his unvoting of me, which was made to seem gracious on his part, like a lord sparing his servant from execution. Or so I took it.

Oh yeah.
@ Zorblag: Thanks.

[Andrius]

I love Genji and Kanon and Ronove. 8DDD And Sakutaro! 8D

We're all lucky you were able to control yourself. I wonder if that's telling us anything. (I believe it'd be incredibly bad for the town to do so, so hold on to your hats xD)

I don't really get the last part, in parenthesis. XD

Oh, here Exilon:
http://kl-chan.deviantart.com/art/hello-132655174
Its so sad... in a way... DDD'8 How that family should've been...
/off-topic

Sorry! XD /waiting to hear from the others.

[Andrius]

My major issue causing indecision here is that I sort of feel like Andrius is townie because of his discouraged/martyry behavior (Sort of because of what SAMP said, but mostly this is a purely emotional reaction). This contradicts my logical view of the matter. I really do not like going by intuition, but it's strong intuition, and that's why it's tripping me up. I don't know why. I mean, I've had my intuition proven even worse than that of most individuals quite a few times. I guess logical side is sleepy and letting impulsive/ooey-gooey-emotional side have a bit more fun than it usually would. It's enough, is all, to throw me the hell off balance when I'm as exam-weary as I am.

You like Star Trek? That's the point of it: you can't be all logic [Spock] or all emotion [Bones/Kirk]. You have to embrace- or accept, at the least- both sides. Perhaps Death Note is more appropriate. Neither Near nor Mello could alone surpass L. But, as Near famously said, "Together we can surpass L!"

Speaking of which, thank you Andrius for not hammering me as quickly as you did Triple M. Your recent posting reeks of appeal to emotion, but from my experience most appeals to emotion by scum are those brought on by incredible anger and ad hominem. So I'm inclined to believe that although your defeatist attitude is Anti-Town, it's not scummy.

It "reeks" with AtE? That's a horrible word choice, as without Mello, Near wouldn't have been able to win, and vica-versa.

I can see why you'd be concerned with that possibility. Unfortunately I don't see any way to argue against it. v v

Yeah, thought so. Oh well, I already voted so you're in luck. XD

[Andrius]

Ok, let me clear something up, because both Mustilicor and Civil Scum are asking about. XD

I was being sarcastic, yet I thought that my death would most benefit the town, so I congratulated him on getting me to L1. Sarcasm, yes. I thought, at the time, that my death would benefit the town, so I said it.

Why? Why do you think a townie death would benefit the town? Please explain this.

And

...though SAMP! more for his unvoting of me, which was made to seem gracious on his part, like a lord sparing his servant from execution. Or so I took it.

I'm not sure that I understand this last part, but definitely scum can use a [insert not very good reason] to jump off a wagon, (a not very good reason like AtE).

I meant to add here, that this did kind of bother me, but since Samp is voting for my top suspect and Mustilicor is vacillitating between my top suspect and the person she jumped from, I don't have much of a problem ignoring this for the time being.

Mustilicor, I figured that by my death, I'd be removing a suspect from a small list of suspects. Then, hopefully, another would be NK'd. Then the TQO/Andrius pair would be eliminated, so you'd have less suspects. That was my reasoning: that my death would mean having one less town suspect.

Civil,I suspect SAMP! more because he was, esseentially, pardoning me right after he condemned me to death; not exactly a nice thing to do. This sudden change of heart bothered me. XD And you were referring to me with that one part. Yeah, I guess I did an AtE, though I didn't really "use" it, as I was just speaking. XD

@ Mustilicor: You're suggesting that logic is superior to emotion. While this is not the time not place to discuss this, I think that both sides have merits. I mean, my impulsiveness got MMM hammered. While he was a townie, impulsiveness goes against the slow thought-process that is used by the logical. ^^; No matter, its not my role to debate this. XD

@TQO: Yeah, I understand your claim, and what you were trying to do. Let me rephrase it and see if I'm right. You were baiting the mafia. You had the ability to make sure you wouldn't fail, if they took the bait, however. Last time I baited the mafia, I baited them

with

the doctor. Yeah, the Doc died in the NP, but we lynched the last mafia the next DP. Idk. I understand your claim, and I'm really hesitant to vote for you because of it...

I won't hammer because I want all of you to ask whatever questions you want. I'll be reasonable about this. XD /fail

[Andrius]

Andrius wrote:
I won't hammer because I want all of you to ask whatever questions you want. I'll be reasonable about this. XD /fail

That's all, though? You're just waiting on us? You're willing to lynch a possible, plausible doctor if there's no counter claim?

No, I was just trying to be humorous/funny/ironic, because last time I hammered MMM dead before you guys could say anything. /fail
Also:
-I could've hammered him earlier, so I'm not too keen on it, still
-My vote lies for SAMP!, so naturally, I'm keeping it there
-It is a rather ingenious play, but I don't think we should take it at face value... the odds of the doctor actually protecting somone during the NK are rather low, as per Numbers Pt. 3, in the mafia scum wiki.

But I'm curious, why would there be a counter-claim? If X comes forth and claim's he's doctor, we're going to lynch one of them, and the other will be NK'd by the mafia. XD So why would someone want to counter-claim, at this point?

[Andrius]

Sorry for not being on in a day or two. I was busy, and travelling.

But yeah. I guess I'll have to read that big massive page of text soon... D':

[Andrius]

Sorry guys!! DDD8
Let's see... Thursday I was writing mid-term papers all day.
Friday was mid-term testing, and me being in an airport the other half of the day.
Saturday and Sunday were me being sociable with my family. XD
But yeah. I'm on break for a week, so I'm here.

Andrius: Where are you? Lying low while it looks like suspicion might turn towards Antifinity? Hmmmmmm? Did you read that big massive page of text yet? *prodprodprodprod*
You haven't posted much at all lately except to defend yourself. What's your take on the current situation? Antifinity's vote on Quintastic despite his claim, for instance?
You currently suspect SAMP. Why? The only recent reasoning I've seen from you is confirmation bias.
Definite AtE all over the place. Not much real content lately, little scumhunting.

I'm not lying low, I'm on spring break. Yesh, I read it, but not really for comprehension ^^; Yeah, I'd like to see a votecount soon, that'd help me out, just to see who's voted and where everyone stands.
As for my vote, I'm kind of unsure who to vote for now.

Unvote

I feel better about SAMP!, though he still bothers me with his... idk. Persona? That's not the right word, is it? XD

So, I think that, in order of my "suspicion levels" are:
Anti > TQO > SAMP! > Exilon. I think Civil and Mustilicor are good lil' townies. XD
I was actually thinking about Anti and TQO being most scummy, before the claim. Now, I'm starting to wonder... no one's counter-claimed. I mean, sure TQO's been acting scummy, but then again, I was at L1 [so i must have done something scummy] yet I'm a townie so...
I think that TQO is who he says he is.

So, I'm not willing to lable SAMP! as town. I'm not willing to label Musti and Civil as townies. But the last two are the most likely candidates as town, even though there are at least 2 other townies lying around. XD

Idk. I think I need to go back and reread the last pages, and see what's up. I feel that we're moving towards an Anti/TQO/Me lynch.

I'll read and be back later; I have some business to attend to.

And Musti & Exilon, sorry for being away.

[Andrius]

Hmm...
Mustilicor, you're actually starting to get on my nerves. XD Its like you're beating on me for being emotional. XD Oh well. If I were as impulsive as you were logical, I'd have OMGUS'd you for being mean to me. XD

Sorry. In all seriousness though, I think that someone needs to die. Everyone's pointing at me/Anti/TQO, so something needs to happen.

ZORBLAG, can we get a vote count?
Vote: Andrius

, since I have no idea how the voting stands.

[Andrius]

Ah, here they are. I was looking for these.

And "My vote is for SAMP, so naturally I'm leaving it there" - I have no idea what's natural about leaving a vote wherever you've put it, or 'just because you've voted someone'??? That sounds a lot like you don't want to appear vote-jumpy.

Well Civil, I'm looking scummy if I jump, I'm looking scummy if I sit on a vote for too long without Mustilicor-approved reasoning. So yeah, I unvoted. And I look scummy for unvoting. At this point, there's

NOTHING

I can do to magically redeem myself in your eyes and make me look like a pure-blood townie like Mustilicor.

So yeah. At this point, the only way to redeem myself is to die and turn up dead. And the mafia aren't going to kill me because that'd be the stupidest move they could make. So they'll kill someone else and leave me to hang D3. /pessimistic
Come on. None of you are magically going to start trusting me as if I were a townie, so I'm not going to try to bend over backwards to gain your favor and good graces.

What do you think the difference is from "labeling people townies", and this other statement of yours?

Nothing that I can recall, besides the time that transpired in between one line and the next.

And a self-vote...haha. Do you really think that's a good idea, Andrius?

Why not? XD Why is it a bad idea, then? I'm just helping out the town. If you guys want to lynch me, that's cool. If not, that's cool too.

Unvote

I'm happy. XD

Ha. If you'd like, Andrius, I could actually be mean to you for a bit. Give you a little perspective and all that. See, I'm not sure if you landed in here by accident or something, but you are playing a game in which you are going to be suspected and in which your posts are going to be picked apart.

Go ahead. Make my day. =D

But Andrius.. play the game or don't. Seriously.

I feel insulted, to be frank. If I weren't going to play the game I wouldn't be here.

That said, a lot of your ridiculousness seems like it might just be your personality. If you really don't want to be in the game anymore, request a replacement please. Self-voting is poor sportsmanship. If you ARE town, the way to be useful to your team is to root out scum, not to deliberately cause a townie death.

You cannot logically analyze my personality. Which is why I gave up on SAMP!.
Well, from my POV, I see "rooting out scum" as lynching possible candidates. Which are me, TQO, and Anti. I think that TQO's who he says he is, so I'll let that lie, for now. I'm a townie. No surprise there. XD So that leaves Anti. Maybe I'll hammer him. XD Maybe I won't. XD I know that you suspect me and Anti most, and I know that I'm a townie, so respecting your judgement, it boils down to me hammering Anti. And then we'll see how good your logic goes, and if it fails, then my impulsiveness will pay the price.
Sound good?

I was actually thinking about Anti and TQO being most scummy, before the claim. Now, I'm starting to wonder... no one's counter-claimed. I mean, sure TQO's been acting scummy, but then again, I was at L1 [so i must have done something scummy] yet I'm a townie so...
I think that TQO is who he says he is.

This seems so confused that I'm getting confused as well. Could you clarify how you being on L-1 and being a townie rules out Quintastic as scum, from your perspective?

I basically was making the point that I am a townie. I got up to L1. So why is it not possible for TQO, who may be doctor, to also be shoved up to L1? (That work for you?)

Oh, you THINK your suspicions levels are like that? You're not sure about your own thoughts? Because that's exactly what you are implying here... xD

Yeah, I think, as opposed to: "I rolled a set of dice, and whoever got the highest number will be my most suspected." Or, "Musti's being mean. I'm going to suspect him."
Exilon, are you 100% sure of your own thoughts and suspicions? Why is that, because you're a mafia who knows who the townies are? Huh?


Well, Antifinity, I think its going to be you or me who kicks the can this phase. XD
I'll not hammer you, for now. XD

[Andrius]

Andrius, or anyone else who "equates" to me. HAMMER ME. I dare you. I know I'm town, and you do too, so you know that if I actually go down, you'll go down with me. If you really are town, then you don't know I'll flip town, and you can believe that you'll take out a scum and win.

You should wait an appropriate time if other people still want to question me, but honestly, if you're innocent, bite the bullet, kill me, its the only way I'll believe you're simply mislead.

XD Well, you've really thrown the glove down. Can I do this too, and see what happens? Then neither of us will get lynched! Hooray! Everyone dance!

To gain our favor? Whether you are voted does not have to do with favor. It has to do with whether we suspect your role in the game is a member of the mafia. Furthermore, to be suspected is not an insult and should not be treated like one; roles are randomly assigned. Why should you be so aghast at someone thinking maybe you were randomly assigned one role instead of another? To dig at you to search for rational reasons to determine your role is just playing the game.

Its not an insult. I'm part of an elite group, of me, Anti, and TQO. XD We're all buds. XD Minus the fact that Anti challenged me, after I threatened him. XD

Did you interpret the question regarding your vote as declaring it invalid? I was genuinely asking. I wanted to gauge your response. It wasn't an accusation, it was investigation. Scum-hunting. This was what I was suggesting you do - find unanswered questions, request answers, judge what you get.

Yeah, I'm just clueless as to what to do. Honestly, this approach is too slow for me. Idk. I mean, its just going at a slow pace... idk. I don't feel like we're breaking any ground. If Anti is a townie, and if TQO is the doc, [and I'm a townie, oh by the way] then we're completely off track. Then we'd all be forced to point fingers at the others. I mean, I feel that if I/Anti/TQO died suddenly/replaced out then you all would have an incredibly hard time finding the scum. We're the brunt of all the suspicion floating around.

Scenario: If the town lynches Anti/me and gets a VT result, then we're moving on. Assuming that TQO is the doc, he'll most likely get killed in the NK. Then you all are down two of your three main suspects.
Where was I taking this?
... *minutes passes*
Oh yeah. That there's probably a mafia lurking amongst the four of you.

*sigh* Fine. Sure thing. You are an idiot if you don't understand why a town death isn't a pro-town thing to encourage. We only get so many mislynches. We can't just choose a list of maybes and lynch them one by one without further investigation, or we'll run out of time. Every mislynch is the death of TWO town members. There are five town members left. Use your head.

Yeah, but a town death allows for the list of suspects to grow thin. Its not a laudable strategy, to be sure, but it could help. Idk. That's how I see it. /un-helpful

If you are town that wants to help the town, help us figure out why we should suspect people more than you. The object of the game isn't to figure out who the scum is eventually by process of elimination. If we're wrong too many times in a row we lose. So we have to use rational inquiry (or even gut!) to try to decide who the very best target is each given time, not just throw out lynches randomly until the game is over.

Gut feelings aren't exactly a smart way to go, its more impulsive, which isn't very reliable...

You keep attacking logic as not the best way to go about playing, but you don't seem to be offering any alternative besides just following what everyone else is doing and hoping for the best.

Yeah, I know. I don't have any alternatives. Really, there isn't a better way to go about doing things. I mean, we could Russian Roulette this and see how it goes, but that's not going to help at all. I guess I could be helpful and go back and read. From like, page 1, and build a case for everyone's being scum. Idk. That's the only way I'll get myself back to work.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to bed, and then waking up and taking a crack at all of this again.

Addition:
So what, we have anywhere from 3-5 townies, and a scum.
50% says we've got a roleblocker. In that spot, we've got 50% of no town power roles, and 50% saying we have both. Without a roleblocker, we've got either a doc or a cop. So, assuming that TQO is in fact the doc, we [50%] have a sheriff, and 50% that we have a whole ton of townies, of which, 4 are still alive. Idk. I'm going to look into something tomorrow, possible Sheriff tells. Idk. Maybe it'd help.

[Andrius]

So, I just read up to page... i don't remember. page 8.
I'm posting this so I don't forget what I was thinking when I get back on.
Now, there's a 50% chance of having a cop; 50% in TQO is doc. [And the only way to verify this is for him to die. Or for the sheriff (whose likelyhood of existing is low) having investigated TQO ( which is at a 12.5% chance of randomly investigating TQO)]
Also, my top suspects are, getting support from CS's post way back when:

And Andrius, if you're serious about following that law, or wanting to, then you have to be after me, Mustilicor, and Samp, in a pairing of two of us amongst three.

Therefore, I'm looking at CS, Musti, and SAMP!
(excluding myself for obvious reasons XD)

So yeah. One of us should be a scum. But then again, if CS is scum, he said himself that he's never played a game wherein at least one scum was not on the D1 lynch. So he could then have coached his partner (and himself, of course) to have avoided the D1 lynch. So, by turning the chessboard around, I'm willing to push CS a notch towards the pro-town line. But then again, assuming he is town, why'd he go and place himself amongst the list of D1 lynchers? Perhaps he wasn't expecting to see me pull the Stoofer's. But at this point, CS leans town, SAMP! is sitting in the middle. And as for Musti, the fact that she'd be up for an "Oscar" as CS said places a big burden on anyone looking into her. So its important to clear this bastion of (supposed) townie-ness soon.

Then there's Exilon. He's neither amongst the D1 lynchers, and not in the Top Three Most Wanted.
D1 Lynchers: SAMP, CS, Musti, Me
TTMW: TQO, Anti, Me

So yeah. I'll have an interesting morning ahead of me. XD

[Andrius]

Tch. Overall he still leans scum. But is he the scummiest scum?! ...well yes. But not by much anymore.

Who's "he"? XD

I reeally think that's more of a silver lining of a mislynch than something we should be aiming for. I mean, if we get it wrong this time, we HAVE to get it right on D-3 or we lose. And since it would be two scum out of five, only one town member would have to be misled into voting on the scum's wagon. So that's really not a position we want to put ourselves in if we can avoid it.

True. Too true.

You... you haven't done this yet?! XD Ahahaha no wonder you are lost as to how to investigate.

:shame: No, I haven't. I've been sitting around waiting for people to ask questions of me, or to help, not neccessarily trying to be a lead investigator, or the like. I'm on page... 10.

If you do this, I don't suggest you post what you find. If there's a cop, let them hide until they deem necessary. Otherwise you're painting a target on their head.

True, but there's only a 50% chance that we have one, since I think TQO is Doc. But if he is doc, there's also a 50% chance that we have both, so then the mafia cannot kill both of them. But then if we have both, we also have a Roleblocker, so yeah, that makes things complicated.

[Andrius]

Yeah, both you and Anti are being incredibly un-helpful.

I'd vote for both of you, if the situation were not so dire.

I have 2 more pages to go, bear with me.

I subscribe to it, Exilon, but not in this time. We've got two suicidal people here, begging to be killed.

I should be done reading, and analyzing, by tonight.

[Andrius]

Here's what I really wanted when I wrote that to you: be more wary of your wording, otherwise it could be hard for people to understand you, making it hard for people to see your point.

XD IRL, I talk too fast, so yeah. Sorry.

I am not 100% sure whether my suspicions are right or not, but I AM 100% sure of who I THINK I suspect. It's two slightly different things, and your sentence looked like the second case.

EXILON. YOU NINJA'D ME. XD
And I'm not reading you, who are you suspecting?

[Andrius]

Anti, you're starting to act really scummy. Basically saying that you're saying that if we don't vote for you, then we're scum. And if we do vote for you we'll be killing a townie.

So try and help us out, if you are a townie.
*sigh* I'm not ready for this; I had an emotional train-wreck earlier.
I want to hear from Musti and Civil. Personally, you're bugging me Anti, condemning TQO and me either way- which is kind of scummy, seeing as you're setting up another town death.

[Andrius]

Well, let's see what happens when I do this
vote: Andrius
Fos: Exilon
The fluff-style of posting, having a good grasp of the game yet almost always -trying- to sound lost/confused, only voting for two people when "suspicious of everyone".

Umm... I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish, but sure, go right ahead. I've got another page to read, so I'll go ahead and do that. :d Be back in a few.

[Andrius]

Alright. I went back and read up on everything in D2. *sigh* Though since this spanned at least 2 days, I don't remember what I was going to say, for the most part.

Hmm...
First off...
I'm looking at this:
1 Mafia Scum, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Doctor, 1 Cop, 5 VTs
OR
2 Mafia Scum, 1 Doctor, 6 VTs
I've included the doctor-only ones because no one's counter-claimed TQO.
As for the Cop, I doubt we have one, at this point. Simple as that.
With 7 people left, we're at a 28.5% chance of randomly lynching a scum.
Me, TQO, and Anti have all hit L1 at least once.
Exilon's the only one who hasn't hit L1 and wasn't on the D1 lynch.
Stoofer's says that there's a scum amongst me, SAMP, CS, and Musti.

@ Civil Scum: ... damnit. I knew there was something I was going to say yesterday... D: *sigh* I'll have to go reread pages tomorrow and get back to you.

@ TQO: Personally, I think you're the Doc. I could be confounded. But its a tremendous risk for a scum to claim mafia in this game. Assuming that there is a roleblocker, you'd only have a 50% chance of guessing if there's a doc or a cop. The same goes if there isn't.

@ Anti: You're being really anti-social now, first daring us to hammer you, and then you slightly improve your mood when you hit L2. (i presume that was humor there; thats how i took it) Then there's this, I found:

he’s at least trying to redeem himself in the eyes of the town rather than just giving up and saying “go ahead, lynch me” like most newb scum would do.

Sounds like Anti, daring us to lynch him.

Then there's SAMP.
Last-ish but not least.

First off, you came on, D2, and immediately, (literally, the first words) were to vote for me. You then stick it there and sit around through my posting of the McGriddle attack, and hold your vote until I get all defeatist. Then you withdraw, after Mustilicor does so. Perhaps you're trying blend in as town. Your whole unvoting for me was weak, and I called you out, and you just said that you couldn't defend yourself from that.

Overall his reaction today supports the idea that he really was paranoid that he'd be a likely D2 lynch if he was wrong about MMM.

This is a departure from your earlier posts, when you were couldn't see that I was panicking over it the entire time. Does my getting to L1 and then Mustilicor unvoting put you in a position where you felt you had to unvote?

Vote: SAMP!

After reading all those pages (please don't make me do it again, though I probably will to get back on CS's case XD) I feel that this is my strongest impression, without placing Anti within TQO's hammering range.
Reasoning?
-Jumping on my ass right at the metaphorical "dawn" of D2
-Refusing to acknowledge (the fact that I might have been a bit paranoid about being lynched after MMM's turning to town) until after Mustilicor had unvoted
-For giving a really suspicious, and un-characteristic unvote (from voting for me) that he was unable to defend when pressed (by me)
-For his close-mindedness. Unwilling to see that I may have been concerned about MMM turning town (which I thought meant my subsequent lynching), and his weird form of questioning (which was brought up by Exilon or TQO).
-Jumping off the TQO BW once he roleclaimed as Doc. Granted, we all put the parking break on, but if he has so sure that TQO was scum, would a PR roleclaim really be enough to sway his vote that much? Or is he merely looking for an easy lynch?
-Looking for easy lynches. Hopping on the hammerer's back (me) right at the start of D2, then jumping on TQO until he Doc roleclaimed, then not really voting or doing much of anything constructive, besides working on the Anti case, who he says is town.

For now, this is it. I'll have to reread (UGH!) to get back on CS's analysis, as it was all taken from pgs. 8-10-ish. A vote for Anti means letting TQO hammer him dead. I think TQO's a desperate pro-town, cornered.
TQO: I don't think that's a smart move, either. If you get Anti to L1 and then hammer him, he could turn up town. Then you've basically given up. If the NK doesn't kill you, you're saying that we will. Which isn't true. I hammered D1, and I'm still alive.

I'm tired. Going to sleep now. Besides for CS, I've said everything I want to, I guess.

[Andrius]

SAMP! and Anti.
*facepalm*
I believe that TQO is the Doc. So, in my mind, we have a 50% chance at a Cop. I know, if you don't think he is, its a different scenario. But that's how I see it. Take it or leave it.

SAMP first.
I doubt there's a cop because its a 50:50. And if I thought there was a Cop, as Musti said, I wouldn't tell because I don't want scum like you to kill him. Simple as that.

Well, yeah. What am I supposed to do, not bring up my case until the middle of the day for no particular reason?

Yeah. Would've made me feel a bit better. XD

How is me unvoting you uncharacteristic? It's my fourth unvote.

Then your voting pattern can be seen as wishy-washy. /scummy

As for the picture of i-don't-know-who, it failed to make anyone laugh, and you effectively dodged the question. Answer please, without a sarcastic and/or smart-ass photo.
In regards to 340, I meant that if Anti says he's town, and gets lynched, townie dies. I'm town. If I'm lynched, I die. I believe TQO to be doc. If he is lynched, its a townie death. So yeah. There's "another" town death, besides for MMM and McGriddle.

I don't want to hammer him until he has had a chance to explain this seeming error.

Gee, thanks. ^explained above^

Mustilicor, you have the right to have a weekend. XD
Musti, you told me to not say anything about my findings regarding the Cop. And I still see it as a 50:50 shot anyway.
Well, by finding someone the cop, I find someone who is definitely a pro-town player. So yeah. To sate my own need to research, and to try and help.

And Anti and TQO, you both are being pitiful [i admit, like I was] about dying and hammering someone. XD

Anyone paying attention to the votes now? Or should I wait for a votecount?

Exilon~ where are you~

[Andrius]

That doesn't really explain anything. you're just saying you believe he is the doctor because you believe he is the doctor.

vote Andrius

It explains why I think the way I think. I'm not expecting you to believe it. I'm expecting you to accept the fact that

I

believe it. Simple as that.

But call the "WRONG" scene from Superman Returns not funny? We're going to have to take this outside.

Yes, SAMP! we all find it incredibly funny. /sarcasm
Now please, drop it and move along.

Yeah, Mustilicor, I'm not liking the fact that you just decided to be "relatively quiet", since both me and Anti and TQO could be dying. I mean, let's assume that 2/3 of us is scum. You're still going to sit by and let a townie die? Come on. I decided to be more active, and now I'm at L1.

I'm probably going to continue to be relatively quiet as this day peters out.

Mustlicor and Exilon have all been posting your thoughts and analysis but you're not really committing to a lynch or pushing for who you believe to be scummy. For the most part all of your activities this day have involved simply discrediting everyone elses suspicions instead of developing your own, which makes you look scummy. In my opinion.

I don't care if this makes me look more scummy by agreeing. I agree. I think that you two, especially Musti, who said that he's going to go silent, are making a mistake.

Well geez, I'm back at L1.
I guess I can throw out some last words, in case this is it.
Last Words, Take 2. XD
I claim VT.
I keep my vote on SAMP!
Yeah. Oh wait. There's only seven of us now. Nm. We are all posting semi-regulularly. Never mind. Let's see where this takes us.

[Andrius]

Oh hi there, Civil Scum. /ninja'd

[Andrius]

So I went back to page 13 and grabbed the old votecount.
So, if I'm correct, we are at:

Andrius (3): Exilon, CS, Anti
Antifinity (1): Mustilicor
SAMP! (1): Andrius
Civil Scum (1): SAMP!

Not voting (1): TQO

At deadline, I'll be lynched.

[Andrius]

I think I'm done here.
Ummm... thanks for playing with me, everyone.

Ah. Well, you sort of did before I asked that. So I was asking what led you to your conclusion, because it seemed unusual for me. 50/50 translating to unlikely.

You know, something interesting to me is how you keep noting that this is all assuming we have a doctor. The thing is, though, whether we have a doctor doesn't change the probability of a cop... unless you know the mafia set up.

Hm hm hm. You also addressed SAMP's playful threatening of you without addressing his actual question in the very same post.

Look at that. Just enough to put you in the lead in my analysis.

Yeah, I decided that I was going to be positive and all. XD
I have no idea how its setup, besides for the fact that there are 5-7 townies, due to my being a VT.
And yeah, I dodged his question, partly out of his general being elusive.
Gee, thanks. XD

FoS Quintastic if he turns up scum, FoS Antifinity if he turns up town.

Well, it looks like Anti will be next, but you all won't believe me until I'm dead. :/

Last couple things. I'm glad you decided to be the hammer, Mustilicor.

Anyone have feedback for me, now, or should I just wait until the post-endgame for feedback?

Well, I'm done, I guess. Though I'd prefer to be shot instead of hung.
See, MMM? I'm next. See you soon.

[Andrius]

the exact reasoning for my movement from Antifinity to Andrius is that what put Antifinity ahead in the first place was a comment of his easily readable as a slip caused by knowing more than a town member should. Andrius now also has something easily be construed as this. When taken together with other reasoning you can find easily in my iso, it adds up to more than what I've got on Antifinity.

Wait, I'm confused. o_O Care to explain?

[Andrius]

I meant, Mustilicor wrote, BTW. /fail

[Andrius]

Ah. Got it. ^^; /fail
Well, it was a stupid mistake. :/
How long are we going to wait? XD

[Andrius]

Alright, well I'll stick around until I'm officially dead.
See ya', for now.

[Andrius]

Mustilicor, even if I were scum, I wouldn’t know that there’s a doc. Its still 50:50.
And If I /my scumbuddy were Roleblocker, its still 50:50.
So yeah. Just because I think there’s a doctor, at 50:50 odds, doesn’t mean I’m scum. The only way to know that would be if I were the doctor, which I’m not.
:/ Though you all are probably looking for a good lynch, so I understand.

[Andrius]

I was hoping to get another chance to defend Andrius (although admittedly it would just be the same defense as the one I used in 211 except worded differently) but oh well.

... more like another chance to try and make it look like you're town.
Can you all hurry up and hang me, officially? XD

[Andrius]

Nice game everyone! I can post now, right? XD

[Andrius]

Andrius too, you had some flashes of greatness

I don't recall any of this, but still. XD

Andrius, you were a little more a victim of circumstance I think? Besides that first hammer anyway. I'm not sure about suggestions to offer your way. During the game I pressed you to build a case through looking through things that had already happened rather than waiting around for something new to (which was honest advice rather than an attempt to mislead you), and you already adapted your play upon receiving that. I think it was just a touch too late. ....your being emotional might have helped you get lynched? But eventually that will just be a part of your meta, so I'm not sure if there's much to be said about that.

My meta will consist of:
SARCASTIC /bad trait, given no one finds it as humorous as I do
EMOTIONAL /bad
Whenever someone claims Doc in a game in which Andrius plays, even if Andrius votes for the claimed Doc, THE CLAIMED DOC IS THE DOC. (Evidence: 917, 924) /potentially good

Except for the fact that I was 100% right about Andrius and I being town.

Also, Andrius, while it turned out you were right, I just couldn't believe your blind support of TQO's doctor claim. I wish you had somehow convinced me, because that could have turned out much better for our side.

We totally were on top of our game here, with TQO fully believing in me and me in him. Go team!

But yeah. Idk, I just totally believed in TQO. It just happened. I mean, I got lynched and all. But one of you mafiosos could totally have couter-claimed if I hadn't been on the chopping block since dawn of D2.

I don't know what to say. Great game, and stuffs. Hope to play with you all some other time! Especially Quintastic, my buddy. XD

[Andrius]

Once I've been here for 3 months I may drop playing entirely to full-time mod. XD Maybe with a newbie game on the side. XD Idk, I most enjoy creating setups and themes, and I've already hammered out two of them, so yeah. ^^; Just waitin' for May 16th. XD I know I'm not a great player, so I'm totally willing to step back and let others play.

[Andrius]

/on-topic
Come day three I would have totally been questioning Musti's alive-ness a bit more, and Civil Scum was always kind of in the background, so yeah. XD
/fail at staying alive
But yeah, it was a great first game and stuff. XD

/off-topic
@ Quintastic:
I don't know enough about the waiting list and etc., but I know that theme game setups have to be approved, and that doesn't seem too hard to do.

Yeah, I'll totally hop into finding out how this all works once I hit two months in 10 days or so. Then I'll totally start working on getting my mini normal game approved, and then going on from there. XD

[Andrius]

Yeah, not a problem, Exilon!

Man, it was perfect, with Musti as scum. The Doc would totally waste a night protecting her, or two nights, since she was the bastion of townie-ness, and she'd go around NKing people. Way to go. XD