Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[RandomMaster]

Confirm, this will be my first game. I hope it goes well.

[RandomMaster]

"Kyiv, why were you interested in the experience levels of the other players?"

Confirmation is a pretty boring stage of the game. Especially when it's dragged out like that. I wanted to call attention to the game, since it dropped so low on the list.

In any case:

Vote: Lastsurvivor

What is your reasonning to adding a second vote towards Lastsurvivor? The more information we can get for the town, the better it will serve in the long run.

[RandomMaster]

Kyiv and Lastsurvivor, can you elaborate what would be your definitions of the circumstances right now? Day 1 has just begun...

[RandomMaster]

Oh jeez, I'm already growing parnoid

Why are you feeling already paranoid? This is your first post of the day. Is it simply because of the fact that anyone might be scum, or is it that you actually might be scum and the pressure that the town might find you is causing the paranoia? This is probably a very weak argument, but at this point, it may be good enough for a Day 1 vote for me, and it's better than a vote by pure randomness. (This coming from the guy called RandomMaster)

Vote: Magic Trainer

For the reason posted above, and for the fact that he wrote paranoid wrong, in a game where it is everywhere.

[RandomMaster]

Yes, I feel like I may have jumped, but the vote actually has 2 reasons behind it.

1. I wanted to do a vote that had some hints of logic behind it, may they be weak. Even though many consider this as the RVS, I feel like much can be learned in these firsts couple of days, and randomly voting someone off isn't going to help the town. A vote with some bits of reasonning behind it is better than picking someone at random and voting for said person.

2. I feel like there may be a hint of bandwagonning towards Kyiv, and you seemed to have jumped on it. I'm wondering that is the only reason why you voted her is that she posted over you, or is there another reason?

[RandomMaster]

Yes, I feel like I may have jumped, but the vote actually has 2 reasons behind it.

1. I wanted to do a vote that had some hints of logic behind it, may they be weak. Even though many consider this as the RVS, I feel like much can be learned in these firsts couple of days, and randomly voting someone off isn't going to help the town. A vote with some bits of reasonning behind it is better than picking someone at random and voting for said person.

2. I feel like there may be a hint of bandwagonning towards Kyiv, and you seemed to have jumped on it. I'm wondering that is the only reason why you voted her is that she posted over you, or is there another reason?

As I said, I understand why you voted for me. Saying this is most likely goign to make me look scummy but I just want to point this out, if I was scum I wouldn't say I was paranoid because of pressure, or at least not when no one at the time was accusing me.

1. Got it, but wouldn't random voting lead to people defending themselves eachother which would not only have a chance to reveal people's allegiances but the night kill itself would help give some clues the next morning as to who the scum is? Both methods seem fine, I would rather have it everyone uses logic.

2. My reason is exactly as I said, when I saw this game start I skimmed the thread and then I voted. Then I looked over the thread once again, I didn't look at the vote tally until after I voted. I'd change my vote but at the time I have no reason to. (I guess I should look back again to make a more educated vote.)

Some people have their different styles of play. Some people will prefer random votes, others, including myself, prefer logical votes during this early stage. Seeing that you bring out good points in your counter-arguments and I am not seeing any slips or signs of panic by me questionning you, I'm gonna :

Unvote: Magic Trainer

Still, this recent bandwagon of Kyiv this early bothers me a bit.

[RandomMaster]

Sure, but even then you need to have some way to make the decission. Did you throw dice? Look at the playerlist to see which name you found interesting? Choose the player whose name came second to last alphabetically?

I looked at the playerlist, and I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious.

I was expecting a vote randomly tossed my way this early in the game, considering I have random in my name. I feel like I have nothing to hide, what do you wanna ask?

Michel: I'm new to the site, so I might be missing the obvious "Edit" button, but can you tell me how to edit, to avoid double posting?

[RandomMaster]

The reason why I didn't mention it is that I wanted to add some more pressure to see if you would snap and to see how you would play in those circumstances. I did notice the vote, but I wanted to slowly add it by questionning and accussing, seeing how you would react. Since you answered with good counter arguments and logic, instead of resorting to emotions and pleading, I unvoted. If you want to see it that way, yes, you could see as to building up on my theory. If I was completely geared towards lynching you, why would I have unvoted?

[RandomMaster]

Michel, nevermind. I just thought of the reason why there wouldn't be an edit button, which would be from scum to alter their messages to cover up their slips.

[RandomMaster]

I'm actually growing suspicious of Medix. He seems to be avoiding any questions that we ask him. Let me explain:

Post 60:

I feel like I have nothing to hide, what do you wanna ask?

I invite him to ask any questions since he has suspicions of me, and as of yet, he hasn't responded. I don't believe inactivity to be the reason, since he posts later on to defend himself (I'll explain later on in the post).

Post 61: Magic Trainer asks him to be more specific about his post, when he accuses Magic to, if he were scum, that his friend looks suspicious. As of yet, no response.

For me, there might be two reasons why he hasn't posted a reply to these. One, he didn't see them, or two, he didn't read the thread because he might be scum and the Day time is not important to him.

In addition, he seems to be defending himself already when Michel placed a vote on him.

Post 70:

MichelSableheart wrote:
Similary, I think a bit of pressure on medix is warranted. He has not yet produced any original content.

Unvote: Kyiv

Vote: Medix

Do you accuse me as a scum because I'm not throwing arguments yet? It's a very weak reason to accuse someone.

I feel like he's defending himself already when one vote flew his way, and his defense is that it's a very weak reason? So, a random vote that you implied was random on post 57 by looking at the playerlist is fine, but yet one with reasonning, even if it's weak, is not? I don't believe that.

For me, it sounds like you don't care who leaves, as long as it's not you. That sounds like scum to me.

Right now, I'll simply

FoS: Medix

and I'll leave a chance to reply to hear his side.

[RandomMaster]

@Random: I think random, baseless vote is better than weak-based vote since the random vote is a bridge to make a base to a better vote.

Ok, but aren't we passed baseless random voting? Now there some actual information to make a based vote, and like Michel said, wouldn't the weak-based vote lead more towards a bridge to make a better vote?

@Patriots: ANYONE can lurk as a strategy, either scum or town can use it.

Can you exlain how someone that is pro-town use lurking as a strategy? That would just withhold information from the town, and the town needs as much information as it can get.

@Michel: Okay, I'm still in learning session, so most thing I can do is either supporting any attacks or make a defense for myself.

Some of us are still learning, including me since this is my first game, but that doesn't prevent from trying to find scum. Like Patriots said, you seem to just pop out of nowhere when you're name is thrown in.

I feel that the explanations that you give don't really hold up to anything, baseless as Kyiv pointed out, and you still haven't answered the questions that I pointed out in post 92. I believe you're still avoiding to answer. For this:

Vote: Medix

[RandomMaster]

Medix has been unreliable at this point, that's true, and I think I pointed that out in previous posts. However, I would like to keep it at L-2. That should be enough pressure for him to make a defense, which I believe everyone wants to hear at this point.

While we're waiting, Kyiv, why did you FoS Patriot?

For the vote count, I reread a couple of times, and I am 100% certain it's L-2, unless someone posts a vote or unvote as I'm typing this.

[RandomMaster]

So, Medix is at L-1.

Would just like to say, I'm going to be out of the province this weekend, and since I am almost 100% certain I won't have access to a computer, I won't be able to do or say anything for all of friday, saturday and sunday. I'll be back monday.

[RandomMaster]

Hey, I'm back.

Are the four people voting Medix voting him because you think he's scum, or because he's not putting forward any content? I'm personally not sure if he's a scared scum or just a useless townie.

I'm voting for him because for me, he doesn't put forward content, he avoids it. He still hasn't answered many questions that many of us and myself have asked him. Nothing prevents him from answering these questions, so why isn't he? When I voted a while back for Magic Trainer to ask him some questions, he answered with a logical defense. With Medix on the other hand, he still hasn't gave one that really holds up. His recent absense does not help his case. For me, I think he is acting scummy.

[RandomMaster]

Also, almightybob and PatriotsDynasty09, are you guys still sticking to your votes towards Magic Trainer and Kyiv respectively, and why?

[RandomMaster]

(also note his lack of a vote, though RM beat him to the L-1 vote.)

I was the L-2 vote, kunkstar was the L-1 vote.

Besides that, the feeling of the Medix wagon changed suddenly. Kunkstar's and RandomMasters replies to LastSurvivors questions imply that they want to lynch him not because they believe he is scum, but because they believe he is not helping the town. Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

I might have also implied that I am voting for Medix because he isn't putting new information, but also when he does answer the questions and puts out information, it doesn't hold up any water, and we have called him out for that on several occasions. For example, post 73, 98, 117, 122, 148, 149, 153, end of 157, 160, 161, and 168. His defenses have numerous holes in them. For that, and the fact about not adding any information, that's why I voted for him. I guess it's a little bit of both, my vote is for lack of information and because I think he's scum.

[RandomMaster]

Kunk, you've been acting a bit strange recently, and some things you're saying now seem to be inconsistent with things you've said before.

From rereading my post where I voted Medix, I think I'm leaning more towards because of lack of content. He has been very weak and basically if he isn't scum then he is not helping the town at all right now, providing the scum with an easy lynch target.

That was your reply to LastSurvivor's question about if you were voting Medix because he was either scum or lack of information.

wrote:
Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

I completely agree with this statement. It is the case of lynching for noncontribution rather than scumminess. Until either Medix shows up or replaced, there shouldn't be a judgment on him.

My suspicion is on LS, as he is being the little voice in the back, egging anything that comes up on.

(The reason that MS is reffering is lynching not because of thinking one as scum, but because that one is not helping) So if you completely agree with MS, why are you keeping your vote on Medix/Gayle? You're saying that it is the biggest cause of mislynches, but yet you continue on as if you want Medix gone. Also, if you have your suspicions on LS, why not vote him?

wrote:
If Medix gets replaced, and his replacement can put forth content, are you going to lynch him/her still?

If Medix gets replaced, we would give the replacement a chance to prove otherwise. If the replacement is unsatisfactory as well, then I believe the lynch should proceed.

Later on, he replies with this:

Definitely. Straight up. Everything Gayle says is pure truth.

All that Gayle said before this post which, from what I understood was sarcasm, was that he was reading the thread and claimed town. So, where was his chance to prove otherwise? Also, can I just state the times between the posts? 11 minutes. That's rather quick to base your judgment of someone who still hadn't read the thread.

In addition, from what I understand as sarcasm, you seem to imply that Medix/Gayle is scum in your view. Doesn't that contradict what you said earlier, when you said that you voted Medix not because of you think he's scum, but rather because he's not helping the town?

Right now, I can't judge Gayle immediately since he only started this game and catching up, and also, as he stated, he cant prove his claim of being town in 2 posts. I have no reason to unvote at this time.

I'm gonna

FoS: kunkstar7

because of the reason that I stated above.

[RandomMaster]

Well, I think Kunk and PD are scumbuddies. They rarely acknowledge each others existance, and certainly never question each other.

Just in case you missed it, I said that Kunk is third on my list of scum

Gayle
Michel

Kunk

And inb4 "now he just trying to distance himself away from his partner"

You never mentionned this in any of your other posts, I checked. Since Gayle already asked you what makes you suspicious of Kunk, I'll add to that and ask the same quesiton but towards Michel and Gayle. Also, you still have your random vote on Kyiv, but yet you say that you are suspicious of Gayle, Michel and Kunk? Why are you keeping that random vote, if you are more suspicious of others?

Flareonage, who do you think is scum and pro-town in your view? You still haven't given us your actual opinion on the game yet.

It seems that my point of view on Medix/Gayle has changed. Now that I reread, it seems that I thought he was scum BECAUSE he wasn't posting at all and not helping. Seems that Gayle is actually participating and making discussions. So,

unvote.

[RandomMaster]

Wanted to add for the reason behind the unvote is that there are more suspicious people than him at the moment.

[RandomMaster]

And you asked me who I thought was Medix's partner if he was scum. I would have to say you and Kunk in that order. Michel, I know that "policy lynches" have a high chance of a mislynch but in post 157 you said that you would be willing to vote Medix if he doesn't give an opinion on the matter. Maybe you're trying to protect your partner from getting lynched...

I am a little pressed for time right now but I wanted to post this to show you guys where I created my order of who I think is scum.

I'll post something later on today

Must have missed that, but I would still like to hear your answers to the questions I asked in post 271 later on.

[RandomMaster]

Like to point out: PD's list of people he thinks is scummy in order:

Just in case you missed it, I said that Kunk is third on my list of scum

Gayle
Michel
Kunk

Yet, he throws a vote on AB. Why?

Also, Flareonage, do you have anything to add behind your vote besides what almightybob said in his post?

Kunk, I still would like to hear your thoughts of post 242.

[RandomMaster]

Either way, if PD ruined the game, or sending the confusion, he is lynched.

Gayle, Michel, AB, Flareonage and Kunk all voted for him. That is 5 and a majority.

[RandomMaster]

Ok, so for the entire PD saying Kyiv is his partner, I think it's just WIFOM (I think that's how you use it). He knows he was going down, so I'm guessing he picked someone and just threw said person under the bus. He could have done reverse psychology, picking someone town and hoping to throw some confusion, or reverse reverse psychology, or etc. Kyiv could be scum, he could be town.

Kunk has still not given me his opinion of post 242, where I wanted him to explain his contradictions that I pointed out, even though I asked multiple times what he thought of it.

Here's a case against Kunk, made by Gayle, a proven townie:

The Kunk
-I think that his attack on MT didn't pan out, so he switched to Medix, who was a much easier target.
-Claims putting someone at L-1 is good for pressure.
-Says his vote on Medix was because of Medix's lack of content. Aka Policy Lynch.
-Agrees with Michel, but keeps his vote on Medix.
-Quickly tries to discredit me though I had posted very little.
-Later claims that he was agreeing with me rather than attacking me.
-Blows off the last two points with a 'That's cool' and changes the subject.

Also, he was the hammer on PD. Might have seen there was no hope for his partner, so he did the last vote, trying to distance himself.

Interesting night kill. Gayle puts super suspicion onto PD and Kunk, gets one of them right, and is now dead.

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking?

Nice soft suspicion there. Why don't you just come out and say, "I THINK KUNK IS SCUM!"

I like your "brilliant" plan to cast suspicion on me, keep it up.

Vote: Lastsurvivor

OMGUS?

Vote: kunkstar7

[RandomMaster]

If I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night.

I'm going to have to be replaced. I simply don't have the time which I thought I had.

[RandomMaster]

If I am the cop, I investigated Gayle last night.

I'm going to have to be replaced. I simply don't have the time which I thought I had.