Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[Kyiv]

/Fwee!

[Kyiv]

Well, while we're waiting for BH to be confirmed/replaced, let me throw out a question to everyone. How much experience do you have playing Mafia? On this site, and elsewhere? How many other games are you in? Well, I guess that was three questions.

To answer my own question first, I've played 5 games, and am in another one on this site. I haven't played any games elsewhere.

[Kyiv]

"Kyiv, why were you interested in the experience levels of the other players?"

Confirmation is a pretty boring stage of the game. Especially when it's dragged out like that. I wanted to call attention to the game, since it dropped so low on the list.

In any case:

Vote: Lastsurvivor

[Kyiv]

He's the best choice I have considering the circumstances. There's no reason to vote anyone else over him.

[Kyiv]

^ Your misinterpretation

[Kyiv]

That doesn't actually answer my question. It explains why you posted, but it doesn't answer why you chose the experience levels of players as the topic of conversation.

It seems a recurring question to help players get to know each other, in any Mafia game, especially those with newer players. It was less of a game-related question and more of a personal question. I could have chosen any question. I simply chose that one.

How's walrus helmet doing?

[Kyiv]

Do you accuse me as a scum because I'm not throwing arguments yet? It's a very weak reason to accuse someone.

Day 1 accusations are going to be weak. However, I disagree that Medix hasn't produced much: He did make his vote and back it up. However, I think his accusations are baseless, which is worse than just weak. For instance:

I looked at the playerlist, and I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious.

Because someone didn't vote back at you, or because someone completely ignored your RANDOM vote, you assume that they are attempting to avoid you? I can't agree with that.

If you were a scum, you could be paranoid, because you saw your friend looks suspicious.

Another baseless accusation. This is not something you can either prove or disprove, it's just WIFOM, which is something dangerous especially in Day 1.

Similary, I think a bit of pressure on medix is warranted. He has not yet produced any original content.

I agree. I think Medix should flesh out his thoughts:

Unvote Vote: Medix

[Kyiv]

You needed a second "[/quote]". When you quote multiple people, you need multiple tags, for instance:

Code: Select all

[quote="Mith"][quote="VRK"]Hai[/quote]OMGUS[/quote]

Wtf are you guys doing?

Would look like:

Hai

OMGUS

Wtf are you guys doing?

If you're still having trouble quoting, try simply clicking on the "quote" button, and copy and paste the quotes you need to a notepad and then just put them all together (I use notepad anyways, for longer posts.)

[Kyiv]

Oh yeah, it actually looks like you had a misplaced "[/quote]" tag. My bad.

[Kyiv]

@Kyiv: the accusation wasn't that he didn't produce much, the accusation was that he didn't produce anything original.

I'm not so sure about that... He hasn't posted enough for me to think either way.

The accusation that Lastsurvivor responded defensive in his second post of the game seems to be much ado about nothing. There are far better tells around.

The only reason I mentioned it was because there really wasn't any tells at all at the time. Now I think people are starting to grab that and use it as a baseboard for their arguments.

Why

they're doing it remains to be seen, but I think that's worth looking in to.

IMO (in my opinion) lurking is a valid scumtell that is unfortunately greatly overused and far too often misused.

QFT

I think we need to be more specific when it comes to Medix:

I looked at the playerlist, and I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious.

Can you explain what you meant by this? You mentioned your vote for Random was... random, so do you have anything better to go off of? Who is scummy in your books right now?

[Kyiv]

I looked at the playerlist, and I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious.

Can you explain what you meant by this? You mentioned your vote for Random was... random, so do you have anything better to go off of? Who is scummy in your books right now?

New questions! Are you going to answer these questions, Medix? Why did you avoid them?

Welcome Almighty Bob! Let's hope you live up to your name.

[Kyiv]

I also agree that L-1 is unnecessary this early in the game. L-1 is where you put someone when you want them to roleclaim. I wouldn't put someone at L-1 unless I was happy with them being that day's lynch. By all means state your inclination to vote for Medix or lay down a FoS so we all know where your vote

would

be, but better safe than sorry - I would like one of you to unvote Medix please.

I don't like taking the steam out of a good bandwagon. Merely stating your caution, as well as others doing the same, is a good enough ward against any quicklynches. Medix is at L-2, I don't think an unvote is necessary, unless we see some form of defense or a better candidate.

Anyways:

FoS: Patriot

[Kyiv]

Can't really say, but his behavior so far has been off-putting. I think he is someone I want to be wary about.

[Kyiv]

Kyiv, is it possible to give an explanation for your votes and FoSes in the posts you put them in? #136 is rather confusing. On first glance, it looks like you are FoSing Patriots because he tried to take the steam out of the bandwagon. On second read, that's clearly not the case, but still.

My votes are typically clear enough, and unsurprising. I should have said: "

IGMEOY

" instead of FoS, since that's all I'm really trying to point out.

Medix, you're not impressing me here. Answer the questions please.

1) What did you mean by "I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious."?
2) If your vote for him was purely random like you said, why did you expect him to counter it? It's not like there's much to defend against if you get chosen randomly.
3) What did you expect him to do while countering your vote? What reaction were you looking for?
4) Who do you think is likely to be scum just now?

If you are confused, go back to when it happened and reread to refresh your memory.

1. I just bait him to see if he has a good counter or not.
2. Many Day 1 votes is a random vote, and there must be some counter from the target.
3. I still can't really read a response, so I hope he gave a response that can be seen by another player to hit back.
4. I have no idea. I should wait to day 2 and keep more focus in the arguments.

Oh so you answer his questions, but mine aren't good enough for you? [/bad joke]

So from these answers, can I assume that you haven't been reading or keeping up with the thread? Because if you have, you must have an opinion or a stance on

something

. And if you haven't, then you REALLY should go back and read the thread. Waiting until D2 is bad because:

1. You're about to be lynched.
2. D2 discussions are usually revolving around D1 discussions. You'll still be at a disadvantage.
3. The longer you put off reading the thread, the harder it is to catch up. Eventually, you'll be so far behind, that you'll dislike the game and want to replace out or simply not play. You'll have no idea what's going on, and we'll be very much chagrined and tempted to lynch you just for not playing. This is no fun for you or anyone.

So far your defense isn't all that great, but at least you put one up. I'll be waiting on another response from you =P

[Kyiv]

Happy scumday pablito!

Random question: Can I join games in other parts of the forum (like mini normals for example), or does the "one game" rule apply for everything?

Yes, you are allowed to play non-newbie games whenever you wish, though some mods prefer players to have completed at least a game or two before allowing them into their games (Typically, this is for the themed and larger games). The

I still haven't seen anything new from Medix, so I support the L-1 vote, but I prefer giving him more time to post his suspects and thoughts before we rush into a lynch.

[Kyiv]

Quick note:

and he tried to change the debate focus to me, which is worked

Pot, meet kettle.

What does that mean?

It looks like Medix is our lynch today unless something incredible happens... I believe a role claim is in order, but it isn't my place to say: it's up to those who are willing to hammer. For now, my vote remains on Medix.

[Kyiv]

Thanks Michel!

I'm still somewhat unsure about whether to vote Medix. You're right, we can't just wait and hope some other people will find evidence as the scum might just lurk. Which is why I think it'd be a good idea as to get the statistics of each players posting. For those we see who don't post much we can question them about their activity leval and pressure them for information. Just how do I search the thread though?

And who exactly would you be looking at? What kind of content are you hoping to find? What would sway your vote? Don't answer them, just keep it in mind.

I'm still annoyed at Medix for consistently disappearing and avoiding questions. I believe that if he isn't scum, he can still provide good info from his flip. For now, he is my best choice for a lynch.

[Kyiv]

-.-

Okay, doesn't look like Medix is coming back, and no one else is doing it, so I'll just keep scumhunting:

Post 52 here invokes a bit of WIFOM, and then an unrelated vote. He continues the discussion with more WIFOM, and eventually comes to blows with Lastsurvivor with this post. He blows the misinterpretation out of the water: LS admitted to misinterpreting based on lack of sleep, and I'm almost certain Kunkstar was joking about his being defensive. Note that this was

long after

my RVS stage vote on LS for that exact reason. As he continues his tiff with LS, he stays completely on the fence about Medix, neither pushing his lynch nor rushing to his defense. It's a small thing, but it was worth looking at.

Secondly, there's Patriots

Destiny

Dynasty, who has been eerily quiet this entire game. Most of his posts deal with game theory, and are even very short about that. Once a real bandwagon got started, he expressed that he would be more than happy to hop on, but has yet to do so. He is clearly shown rushing the town and Medix here. Although he wasn't trying to end the day, he was threatening with a self-imposed deadline, which I find very scummy. Once he was called out on it though, he backpedals (also note his lack of a vote, though RM beat him to the L-1 vote.)

I've performed a miracle, and posted something "new" while you guys waited, this isn't going to happen again. So get moving =P

[Kyiv]

Hello replacements! The biggest reason for my vote was because Medix was a very good informational lynch, and he had a few scum vibes too. But he's been replaced and that annoys me, but no reason to take it out on Gayle =P

Unvote

Kyiv, a couple pages ago, you put an IGMEOY onto Patriots. What about his behavior do you not like, and do you still think that you need that IGMEOY?

Err... yes? Why would you ask me this question right after I posted my case on Patriots? Did you miss it?

[Kyiv]

Now knowing that we have a cop, a no lynch in this situation would not be a bad thing because I can get an investigation and the chances of lynching someone who's town is very high.

Now that's a scummy statement if I ever saw one.

PD, assuming that you are the cop, what was your reason for claiming at L-2, with 4 days until deadline? Also assuming that you are the cop, what is your case on AlmightyBob, other than OMGUS?

[Kyiv]

If I am cop, I investigated Gayle last night. (I'll have more tonight or tomorrow, sorry!)

[Kyiv]

Yes, everyone has.

I was thinking Flareonage more than anyone, but your Kunk case is a bit better than my case. I won't vote until we see what happens with RandomMaster's slot.

[Kyiv]

Just pointing out my incompetence here. Sorry guys, I've been distracted lately, and I have things to do today as well. I'll try my best to reread and make posts this weekend.

[Kyiv]

Something is still nagging me about Flareonage. If he hadn't read the thread, then that means he lynched PD almost purely on his claim. Sure, it was outrageous but it still feels like bussing to me. Even Kunk pressured PD before hammering him (if only a little bit).

Even so, Kunk's actions for today have not been fantastic. I'm going to put him back on L-1:

Vote: kunkstar7

I don't have an opinion on the bob debate. This looks a lot like townie mud-slinging to me.

[Kyiv]

Look at the entire page as a whole, starting with AB's L-2 vote. Although the post by itself looks like bussing, I can hardly think scum would vote their partner before they even look all that scummy. Furthermore, Gayle was the most vicious attacker, and Kunk had just recently attacked PD09. After the claim, PD makes the quoted statement:

When I am revealed to be the cop watch for Gayle and Kunk. Look how they disregard my claim.

This was directly after their rather immediate response to his claim. I don't think it would have mattered who falsified his claim, I'm sure he would have made a similar statement for them (And it just so happens that they were already mentioned in his scumlist). Furthermore, he dragged several players down with him, not just bob. Gayle, Kunk, and Michel were all mentioned on his scumlist. And then he "outed" me as a scumpartner to top it off.

Of all those people, Kunk and Gayle are mentioned the most, and there were no cases on Kunk, nor were there any reason given to his placement on PD's scumlist.

Kunk, today you have voted for LS for soft suspicion, which I think is an overreaction, though perhaps warranted. Before your case on AB, you mostly defended yourself or your statements, and now it looks like you've abandoned your LS case for a bob one? Or are you still on LS?

[Kyiv]

Hello Charlie!

Kyiv, you ask whether I think bob was bussing, the simple answer is yes. I understand it was not bussing at a really obvious time to do it. The timing was very good, but suspicions were on PD, bob made his excuses, and then voted for PD in a following post. It was bussing done well imo.

PD was not playing incredibly poorly as scum. Think about the big picture:

Let's say AB and PD were scumpartners. It is D1, deadline is in 4 days (as I believe it was). The largest wagon is PD, scum, with 2 votes, with 3 competing votes (although one was RVS). Given that deadline = No lynch and most of the town is unsure of what to do, would you bus your partner? Scum can hardly afford to bus D1, especially not when things are going fairly well. It is not likely that AB-scum would place a L-2 vote on his partner in that situation. If a bus happened on PD, it would almost certainly have been after his claim. That means Flareonage/Charlie and Kunk.

"I don't have an opinion on the bob debate."
"This looks a lot like townie mud-slinging to me"
This is just wrong, the statements contradict. If you think they are both town, Why didn't you just say so instead of using those poor choice of words? Did you get nervous?

They do? I figured "I don't have an opinion" meant "I'm not taking sides". I don't see a contradiction.

As for your thoughts on the Gayle NK:
I don't think Gayle was trying to goad scum into NKing him/her. The part about fooling town is just ridiculous. Why would Gayle wish to disable MS's game breaking method? Why would that be beneficial to town? Why should a hypothetical doc protect a dead player? I think you need to rephrase what you meant.

[Kyiv]

This collaboration on a lynch doesnt quite feel right to me...town should be working together to actually decide a lynch rather than just stand steadfastly on their own suspect.

bob, I think you are scum that much is clear. Decided is not a word i would use in htis context because i dont KNOW but I think that is strong.

I think the bussing is definately bussing. You just didnt do it right at the last minute which for some reason means some other players dont accept it, others said it did look like bussing. I have read the game in context, many times now, I still think this is the strongest point against anyone. I refuse to read you another time, just because you ask me to, you will have to accept that I have read you and find you scummy.

?

What's stopping you from scrutinizing me now, Kunk?

Charlie: I asked you to rephrase because I was almost certain I was misunderstanding you. I thought you were trying to bring up a point with Gayle's play, but it turns out it was just a commentary.

I think you're confused, LS. Charlie replaced Flareonage, boberz replaced RM. I'd like to see more of you LS, you were doing so well D1

[Kyiv]

So for you to use my pressure on Magic Trainer as a point against me is hypocritical. Although the second point regarding Patriot is ok.

A hypocritical statement does not make it incorrect. This is just deflecting.

If you say that PD09 putting me on his scumlist with no reasoning but a gut feeling is distancing, then this in effect is exactly the same thing Patriots did. She can now point out that she was suspicious of PD09 and use it as a point to defend herself. Except this time it works, because PD09 flipped scum and she is alive.

Except, you know... I backed it up later. I mentioned my suspicions for exactly that reason I stated. I had nothing because Patriots posted nothing. As soon as I got evidence (however weak) I shoved it into the limelight (as well as MT because he was another one I was watching.)

Again, this isn't defending yourself, you're deflecting.

[Kyiv]

I've got a splinter on my tongue ( XR ). I'll respond to you later Charlie.

I'm still not all that enthused about Boberz's relentless attack on AB.

[Kyiv]

Do you mean you think it's scummy? Why?

No.

Seeing as it is getting me nowhere I am going to

unvote

that said I am still not happy that nobody is telling me why they are safe on almightybob, that said MS was defending you and he was a protown player.

Both MS and I have pointed out that his interaction with PD was inconsistent with scum behavior. In fact, we pointed it out multiple times.

I think when pablito was messeged about stopping the game, if kyiv was not scum they would certainly want the game to continue; but if kyiv were scum pablito may have stopped the game. This is not to say he would, but because of the pressure he was put under he would have had some probability of stopping it. So purely on probability I may vote flare.

This is exactly what

not

to do. Speculating on mod actions is not only unfair play, but it also detracts from actual play of the game (believe it or not). Basically, the mod needs to be as close to a zero factor on the actual game's play as he can possibly be. Forcing him into it is not looked upon highly. Also, the mod is just as likely to stop the game as he is to allow it to continue whether I'm scum or not. Basically, pretend the mod never saw it (but don't pretend it didn't happen).

now I expect someone will scream wifom at me, but i dont think it is. There are two converse points but that is not wifom. Basically if we can decide which is more likely then we can establish something. If you dont think we can establish which is more likely then we dont have a point. But it was still worth saying.

It -is- WIFOM. There's nothing concrete about it and PD is just as likely to do one as he is the other.

LS you have been vague about your suspects, and you have hardly taken a stance on most anyone but Kunk (at the last moment). So far you have voted twice, and both times it was the same person. A few noteworthy posts:

Possible Coaching
Aggression against early suspicion on (hypothetical) partner

Also, he was completely absent when PD was going down in flames. Not just for the claim, but for the entire case building against him, too. All of this is pretty vote-worthy for me:

Vote: Lastsurvivor

[Kyiv]

You have been ignored for almost the entirety of the game, and as such you really haven't done much in the way of scumhunting. The last time you scumhunted was here, and your last efforts to actually build a case was here, and you have yet to build your own case on anyone as of yet. This entire game, you are mostly seen defending yourself. With all that in mind, simply saying that you took a stance where you were okay with lynching Kunk most of D2 simply throws a scummy motivation into the mix.

No, not exactly a "strange person to put on his suspicion list". More like "inconsistent in line of thinking thus open to misinterpretation". That post has to be read in context, Gayle was saying that we're likely to hit scum with either: MichelSableheart, Kyiv, RandomMaster, kunkstar7. But at the end, he stated he was okay with lynching Flareonage, Kunk, PD. I predicted people will ask: Why? I provided my answer in advance: It reads to me that he’s suspect because Flareonage want to wait for Gayle to post first.
So you see, it is easy to misinterpret what he means without proper reading in context.

I find it peculiar that you use this as a point to get me lynched. If you notice PD -and- Flareonage was not on the wagon, yet Gayle was still open to lynching both of them. I don't think "who was on the wagon" was what Gayle was looking at, but the context of the wagon itself.

Is outguessing the mod really bad form, if so then that is really silly. It is an integral part of mafia. Although I agree, infact I began to conclude that we cant gain much from what I posted.

Kyiv, I explained after every post you link to why i felt it was wrong or irrelevant. You essentially shout 'he didnt bus' at me whilst MS shouted 'it looked like bussing to me, but he is still safe'. Ludicrous. I still dont get why people are safe on him.

It's considered bad form simply because 90% of the time, trying to outguess the mod will get you nowhere. Normally, they take that kind of thing into consideration. Sometimes, they even goad you into trying.

I'm not going to say any more about this. I've said why I think he was not bussing, even if it looked like it. You've given your reasons why you think he was. We're looking at the same thing and thinking different (though I don't appreciate your saying my read is ludicrous.) I'll go back and look at your read on AB (outside of the bussing) later.

[Kyiv]

@First post: POSSIBLE coaching, emphasis on POSSIBLE. If it's not coaching, it's "a townie wondering why someone wants to have a deadline so early."

Of course. That's why I said it's possible coaching, and not definite. It's also POSSIBLE for AB to bus. It's up to you how you want to interpret it, and I'm saying that it looks like coaching.

@Second post: Doesn't hold much merit, since it was mainly a badly phrased question to try to start a dead discussion.

I don't see what you mean. Badly phrased or not, the aggression (however slight) was there.

HEAVEN FORBID I have priorities before I play mafia. The claim elapsed during what, a day or so? A day where I wasn't on mafiascum.

Fair enough.

Also, I'd like a definite time period for when the case building was, because I can't defend myself over something that I have no idea what you're going on about.

We can start here if you'd like. That entire time, you made two statements

[Kyiv]

So I am going to propose a fairly unorthodox solution to this problem.

I'm going to try to get my thoughts together tomorrow.

Can we have a prod on Almightybob?

[Kyiv]

I've clearly missed them, can you point me to them?

[Kyiv]

Appeasement much, Charlie?

[Kyiv]

Sorry guys, I've been having trouble with the site again! I'll try and be more patient with it this week.

I'm townie.

[Kyiv]

And now we wait for someone who hasn't shown in over a week. Also:

Unvote

[Kyiv]

It's like waiting at the DMV office for an hour only to be told you were in the wrong line. For the sake of the game, I think we need to move on?

[Kyiv]

Hi Blueprints! Thanks for replacing.

I'm slightly confused about why the order of claims matters at all? If cop/doc are alive we win no matter what, if not then claiming vanilla innocent doesn't matter what order it happens in? Not claiming until I get a clarification on this, but yeah I just thought having an order in which we claim was kind of unnecessary.

Is this matter preventing you from claiming? Do you feel that claiming without this information could be a mistake? I think not; I think you're stalling.

[Kyiv]

based more on personal experience and not more on logic.

Logic is overrated.

My opinion is that the last scum is between Kyiv and boberz. BrokenBlueprints's latest attack on me reads town to me...

vote: almightybob

My read on boberz is based mainly in the manner of his attack on me. In it I see myself in the past as Town, so sure that I had found scum. The way he focused on me just reminds me so much of my own Town play from my early games that I would have a very hard time seeing him as scum. It's extremely difficult to fake that as scum, and to be honest it probably would be a bad idea for scum to tie themselves down to that extent.

Not good enough, almightybob. If the core of your argument is that boberz is town because of the way he attacked you, then your judgement is totally biased; based more on personal experience and not more on logic.

So, both me and BrokenBlueprints have the same mindset, which makes me inclined to believe the is town.

You are not immune to contradiction, Charlie.

FoS: Charlie

Let me go back and dig up my case on MT. I'm sure I could reread and find scummy things Charlie did as well.

[Kyiv]

First off MT. I don't know if I need to restate how much WIFOM he used, but that wasn't all he did. (WIFOM here). He voted me for posting just before him; RVS was pretty much over at that point, especially since that was an L-2 vote. Later on he attacks LS, the crux of his argument revolving around his "defensive reaction" in the RVS stage. I made this point earlier, but it was pointed out by others that this was extremely weak. I think I even admitted to it, but mentioned there was nothing else to go on at the time. The fact that MT brings it up as the basis of his entire non-RVS vote caused me to wonder at the time, but I believe he was trying to make a case out of nothing; a weak attempt to scumhunt. MT and LS continue to slug it out, and Kunk joins in on the fun. PD sits idly by. As MS mentioned a while back: if MT, LS, and Kunk were all town (and we know that Kunk is indeed town) then PD almost certainly would have been in on the action. This is the kind of thing that scum like to see. And we know he was paying attention to that argument because of this. (I'm still unsure what to think of PD's and LS's interaction there.) This means that LS or MT is very likely to be scum at this point: either LS as scum already has this base covered and PD doesn't want to associate with his partner (which I'm thinking is less likely now, given the interaction between the two that I posted above), or MT as scum is under attack and PD doesn't want to be seen defending his buddy, or attacking him for more obvious reasons. Normally, I'd let this go as null, especially since there are other factors that might have been involved in this, but this adds up pretty well with what happens next: PD attacks Medix. PD is attacked directly after. Twice. Popular opinion is drifting away from a Medix lynch and suddenly MT is unsure, although he sounded fairly certain to me. And the parroting... he does it a lot. The last three links I posted were not his original opinions.

And that's just MT. (I need to be away for a while, I'll be back for Flareonage and Charlie =P )

[Kyiv]

I have nothing on Kyiv's case against MT. If I do then I'll be defending MT and not myself. That is ridiculous. Kyiv, if you would be so kind as to attack me instead?

Did you already forget?

I'm fairly certain Charlie has given up, but I haven't. I'm still working on that case for Charlie, though I don't know if I can find anything on Flareonage.

[Kyiv]

No, really, I do feel that defending my predecessor for the scummy things he/they did is not the correct thing to do regardless of alignment.

You asked me to attack you, not your predecessor. I'm trying to point out that I already have. Furthermore, I stated -in that post- that I was going to do an analysis of your entire slot. I'm not asking you to explain the actions of your predecessor, I'm giving my analysis of them.

[Kyiv]

All I can say about Flareonage is that he lurked pretty hard (null tell), and that this looks very much like bussing. On his own, Flareonage seems neutral, but stick this on top of MT and it's really leaning scum.

Charlie enters the thread with his analysis of my play, followed up with a vote. His argument is based on the fact that PD outted me as his scumpartner and directly afterwards I disappear for a time. It's a very weak case based pretty much entirely on speculation (though it's forgiving). At the very end of his post is a lot more speculation and NK WIFOM that was probably best kept to himself. When Kunk looked to be the lynch of the day, he artfully sidesteps the entire wagon, feigning that he is going to reinforce his entire case on me. In fact, he ignores the kunk wagon entirely (Look at him in iso). Beginning of today, he opens with a case on RandomMaster, (bringing up some genuinely good points) and comments on the AB boberz debate stating that, "almightybob came out looking better. Boberz ended up with a slight disadvantage." He wraps up this case by voting me based on the same speculation from before. What happened to your case on RM?

What happened when you posted this? Was I not scum at that point? You failed to point out what about my case you agreed with, you just said you wanted to see more. With Charlie-scum goggles on, that looks to me that you want me to continue my drive on LS, especially when AB had stated earlier that he was thinking of posting his own case on him (though I think at that point he rescinded this.) Charlie could have gotten another Kunk-esque mislynch. But when Boberz did not look to be on board with this, he asked Charlie to expand on his thoughts of a possible LS scum. With AB missing, a lynch on LS could not occur and Charlie suddenly decides that the LS - PD interaction makes it impossible for LS to be scum, but fails to point out why he felt this. I point out that this looked like Charlie was trying to appease various people in the town (Me with my case on LS, AB with Charlie's analysis of the bob debate, and boberz for dropping the LS case). His response to my accusation I don't even understand, but to be fair I was not entirely clear either.

I don't know if I need to post any more on Charlie (his recent actions are fairly clear and have already been stated and analyzed to death), but I can if asked for it.

Question that I'd like everyone to answer: What have I done that made you think I am not mafia? i.e. what part of what post, or what series of posts made you decide I wasn't mafia in your mind?

I don't. In fact... this post worried me. Asking permission to hammer in this manner is not generally a town thing. (Though I'm reading it as a joke for now.)

[Kyiv]

Hot damn.

I rode on MS's back this entire game. From the "This wagon [Medix] isn't scum-driven" to the "AB wouldn't bus". Only thing I didn't use him for was the quick case on PD.

No worries PD; I like a good challenge, although people seemed content with guessing that I wasn't scum. For the record, my case on LS was to get him to take a stance... probably shouldn't wait until Day 3 to do it, but I was fairly convinced Kunk was the last scum D2 =( (Sorry kunk!) Good effort Charlie! (though you definitely should tone down the pleading).

Speaking of LS... I seem to drive people away from the game when I make a case like that... makes me feel bad =(