Newbie 868 - GAME OVER, TOWN WIN

[RayFrost]

vote: Halvor.the.peon

Peon = goon = mafia goon

obv scum.

[RayFrost]

Havlor is obv scum. Vote Havlor!

[RayFrost]

Answering Redder's (the IC) question:

I've got probably around 8~11 games finished (I don't ever keep track) on MS, but I have no meatworld experience.

Anyways...

I'm one of your SE's, I'm just a player that got shoved into this game in order to be a false supplement to the IC.

[insert incessantly long-winded stuff that isn't really needed at the moment]

tl;dr

I'm just another player


oh, and... Halvor is obviously scum, look at his lame excuses for his obvious [urlhttp://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=OMGUS]OMGUS[/url] vote for me!

Halvor wagon, go, go, go!

[RayFrost]

mod: would you mind fixing my URL tag for me? much appreciated

[RayFrost]

It sounds dirty to me, but I am assuming they mean RL (real life?).

Are you a vegetarian?

It means the world that holds our meat selves.

So yeah... meatworld.

[RayFrost]

Everybody, this game is already over!

The scum are:

Halvor.the.peon

and

Leech

Note leech's chainsaw vote hidden behind the flimsy RVS excuse and then Halvor's similar excuse which is completely obvious OMGUS.

Let's lynch halvor first!

[RayFrost]

Your push for these two so early on seems a little much Ray. Can you be so sure so early? Leech's vote seemed innocent enough, merely stating you spelled Halvor's named wrong twice, and Halvor stating the same thing doesn't scream scum to me, it was his name you misspelled after all so of course he would use the same reason to vote you at this point.

D1 style: GET YOH BANDWAGON ON!!!!

So BANDWAGON HALVOR NOW

BANDWAGON POWAH ACTIVATE DAMMIT

[RayFrost]

Sorry, noobish premature submission, but, you could unvote for me any time now Mr. Wolf. I think that vote served its purpose.

Also, Rayfrost, the closest thing we have to a bandwagon right now are the votes that are piling up on you.

And it's not getting town anywhere, now is it?

BANDWAGON UPON THE HALVOR AND YOU WIN A COOKIE!

[RayFrost]

Did RayFrost not strike you as scummy for doing almost the exact same thing? He has repeatedly told all of us to vote for Halvor.

If I am scum, he is scum too.

Umm... I'm not telling anybody to unvote me.

I'm telling everybody to get off their arses and start bandwagoning to get reactions to get discussion to get us the heck out of the RVS.

Obviously, I'm going to say bandwagon the person I have my vote for

[RayFrost]

tsk, tsk, tsk.

Halvor, you seem not to understand.

I am pushing for a BANDWAGON not a LYNCH. They are

very

different things.

If I didn't think you were new, I'd say you were deliberately misrepresenting me. Because you are, I'm cutting you slack from that.

I think I shall have to school the lot of you here... saddening, truly saddening.

The desire for the RVS to be over is really logical from the point of view as town, as it means that there will be valuable discussion and the like. A bandwagon is one of the most common ways to do this because it 1. provides reactions and 2. gets people thinking.

Heck, as far as this has come, the RVS is ending merely because you people are surprised and shocked by my desire for a bandwagoooooooooooon!

Anyway, that's a small sample of my awesomeness [/joking]

[RayFrost]

RayFrost, you claim to be attempting to help the town, but really, your bandwagon is not picking up any steam.

We are now on page 2, I would have to argue that we have both had reactions and started discussion. Why does that make you protown, and me promafia?

I never said you were promafia. Do not attempt to put words in my mouth in the future.

At this point, there is nobody that anybody really thinks is scum, as far as I can tell...~

unvote, vote: ErikTheRed

for not helping out in the town (probably hasn't come on yet, but this will get his attention, at least )

[RayFrost]

I just want to post that i completely missed out on the second page until after my post. Also, rayfrost, thank you for spelling my name right. That makes me feel happy.
However, your desire for a bandwagon might be an attempt at a diversion from YOU and your scummy tendencies. I'm not saying that this is the case, but I'm just naturally suspicious of those who start a bandwagon this early like its some sort of crusade.

I assume by your post following this that you have retracted what you said here. In case you haven't...:

What scummy tendencies do you speak of?

Starting a bandwagon early in the game is one of the best ways to get information/reactions/discussion.

[RayFrost]

I've answered that question, so I don't think I need to again.

[RayFrost]

Sorry, noobish premature submission, but, you could unvote for me any time now Mr. Wolf. I think that vote served its purpose.

Does a single vote on you, RVS at that, make you nervous? It kind of bothers me how you just told someone what to do with their vote. Control freak, or scum buddy speak?

Interesting early day 1.

Leech:

this post implies / states directly that you believe it is possible that Marble is scum.

Your attempt to avoid answering the question is also noted.

[RayFrost]

I'm going to let the IC say the thing I want to say in regards to the unvote cuz the RVS is over thing... >.>"

The last bit of that post gives that post an edge of coaching feel to it, which is noted.

[RayFrost]

.

I am pushing for a BANDWAGON not a LYNCH. They are

very

different things.

Pushing for a Bandwagon could also be another way to push off a lynch against someone since according to the rule if a player had reached the necessary majority lynch votes, no further unvoting or voting would change the lynching process for the day. So if in case, many were successfully convinced to jump on the bandwagon and reached the necessary votes to lynch a player, then that player would be lynched.

It's kind of similar. So, even though your true intention was just to get the game moving, you can't blame anyone if the players had been suspicious at you. Whether one is a townie or mafia, still, not everything is certain in this game.

1. I'd unvote before the lynch happened (if I was on)

2. this is a wagon with virtually no reasoning, so a lynch happening would make everybody on said wagon

highly

suspect.

3. you seem to be assuming that the town has people that are dumb enough to put somebody not only at L-1 on a random wagon but also place the final lynching vote without any real case for said wagon... which is really, really, really pessimistic.

The possibility of anybody (town or scum) being dumb enough to to place a lynching vote for a wagon without reasoning behind it are virtually none, so this kind of paranoia is 1. highly unnecessary and 2. misrepresentation of the situation in order to perform fearmongering (if scum)

Seriously.

[RayFrost]

Are you so not used to the RVS that you forgot how it works, wolfram? Honest question.

Also, funniness and activity are null tells, imo. "can be scum easily" does not mean the opposite ("can be town easily") is false. Lack of mutual exclusivity.

[RayFrost]

Soyasushi has not posted content.

I find this annoying.

Soya: contribute or face my wrath.

mod: will you prod/replace the inactives? If you have done so, what is the status in regards to them?

The leech/wolfram vs marble stuff is moderately interesting, but I can't really tell if I've got anything out of it. It seems to be filled with mostly...:

1. misunderstanding

2. a touch of reaching

3. non-relevant things

and the bits and pieces of the "case" (hardly worthy of the title) aren't really convincing at all.

unvote, vote: soyasushi

This will remain until I see some content. Or soya is replaced. Or I find somebody I think is scummy for something they have done.

[RayFrost]

Marble's OMGUS is noted.

kr0b rehashing a dead horse (stuff about the early bandwagoning~ the RVS bandwagon is to get reactions and start discussion, nothing more, stop trying to misrepresent it already, it's tiresome) is noted.

[RayFrost]

Erik is scum partners with wolfram - discuss.

[RayFrost]

What question? I didn't ask a question.

[RayFrost]

Everybody should give their opinion to the above statement.

It'll be for the good of the town trust me

[RayFrost]

Erik is scum partners with wolfram - discuss.

That's pretty random, RayFrost.

That's the point.

Discussion = good

[RayFrost]

Ok Ray, i will bite, why do you think Erik and I are scum partners? You wants some discussion out of this (which seems really random to me) but you don't give any form of why you would think that this is the most likely of partnerships. Are you hoping to see peoples reaction to it and either run with it if it looks like others will? Or are you going to drop it if it doesn't pick up speed like your Halvor bandwagon in the beginning?

Saying would ruin my awesome plan.

Wait until everybody else replies first, and then I'll inform you, k?

[RayFrost]

Well, it's not really awesome so much as a plan I have to use to get my mind sorted out.

[RayFrost]

Everybody should give their opinion to the above statement.

It'll be for the good of the town trust me

I agree with rayfrost entirely: without something to cause reactions and discussion then there is little to go off of.

you weren't supposed to say! that ruins eet.

[RayFrost]

@Ray: Hypothesis is false. Let's lynch Wolf to test it?

@Halvor: People tend to frown on large chains of posts here. If you right-click the Post Reply button and open it in a new window, you can read the topic while still being able to make your post as a single entity.

Obv scum bussing your buddy for townie brownies, not gonna work

[RayFrost]

Marble is scum with soyasushi - discuss (yes, I'm throwing out random pairings to aid discussion, now discuss dammit)

[RayFrost]

Lol, please, if I were on the mafia, they would be fully throwing me under the bus right now. Hell, if I were on the mafia and someone acted the way I am acting, I would have gone ahead and slapped down a hammer vote then coasted the rest of the game.

Wouldn't work.

There is a halvor and leech scum team - discuss this too

[RayFrost]

Jr/Marble scum team - discuss

[RayFrost]

Ray, when are you going to chime in and discuss any of these pairings?

After everybody else does.

I'd rather or not let my opinion influence how the town reacts.

[RayFrost]

Sooo... wait...

"nothing bad to see about you, but you might be scum" - isn't this a form of fencesitting?

[RayFrost]

I don't see the point in "random scum pairing" like that. You could take everyone's name, slap it next to someone elses and find something similar. I want to know, though, why didn't you include YOUR name in any of these pairs? I mean, if you

really

want the town to think, why wouldn't you toss your name into the hat? What's best for the town, isn't always what's best for you. You're clearly not choosing

random

parings or your name would have appeared at least once.

Or are you doing this to prevent us from considering you as possible scum? It would be a smart play.

I haven't gotten around to deciding which of you people would be my most likely scum buddy from the interactions so far.

Got a problem with that?

Right now, my level of buddiness (from my perspective) is equal between the following:

erik

wolfram

until my buddiness increases between me and one of the two, I can't toss out a scum partner pairing.

[RayFrost]

Btw,

feel free to toss out your own scum partner pairings

and it does get the town to think, which is important

thinking leads to discussion

discussion leads to information

information leads to cha-ching, scum found.

[RayFrost]

I play at a place called RK.com, abbreviated but if you know it then you know it,


@Ray, I was making a little joke there. I don't see any of those four as particularly scummy players, but knowing me I've probably got it wrong and you, for all I know, could probably be scum.

It didn't have a particularly "jokey" feel about it.

It was fencesitting through and through, even as a joke.

Anyway~

kr0b & leech are scum buddies - discuss

[RayFrost]

That doesn't make sense, you said they were random pairings. What you are now describing would be logical pairings due to behavior, intentional disassociation, or voting patterns. If you're claiming they are just random pairings, which you are, then there's no reason you wouldn't have removed your name from said random selection.

(yes, I'm throwing out random pairings to aid discussion, now discuss dammit)

RayFrost is now saying that he hasn't been throwing out random pairings, as previously stated. Discuss. (Much better topic of discussion, IMO.)

It's easier to get honest reactions when you say random than if you say "logically deduced from these behaviors"

[RayFrost]

How's that? You're not being consistent. You claim one thing, then when asked for further detail, you contradict yourself. This isn't a good way to get "honest reactions" rather a way to get suspicion cast towards you. You specifically took the time to specify that you were pairing up

random

people for discussion, when there was nothing random about it due to your own later admission.

I really don't see the point in saying something completely false to get an "honest reaction." That just seems so counter-productive.

if scum know that you are trying to get their reactions in order to find them, they will be on guard.

if they don't, they will be less so.

[RayFrost]

"the town" includes

townies

and

scum

as they both, technically, exist in

the town

.

Nice try, though.

Anyway...~

if you want, I can make one of my now patented LoSes that have made me seem scummy and gotten me nigh near lynched 80% of the time I've made one~

All you have to do to get my opinion on anything specific is ask.

Currently, I have no

strong

reads to either direction, so yeah.

[RayFrost]

if you want, I can make one of my now patented LoSes that have made me seem scummy and gotten me nigh near lynched 80% of the time I've made one~

All you have to do to get my opinion on anything specific is ask.

Currently, I have no

strong

reads to either direction, so yeah.

So do you mean to say that you are afraid to be lynch?

Your initiative in directing the town makes it confusing to work out if you really are one of the townies or one of the scums.

Ummm... how'd you get the "you are afraid of being lynched" question out of what I said? I just said I'm

willing

to make something that has gotten me lynched and gotten me close to being lynched on multiple ocassions. That says the

opposite

.


re directing the town:

Would you prefer I took a passive, non-proactive role in the town and just played sheepishly?

[RayFrost]

Fair enough. But in regards to the "initiative" part, it has just been observed in most games that those who take such initative are the ones who has a "power".

a powerrole? I'm not going to answer your rolefishing.

Also, those that take initiative are one of the following (making such speculation worthless, imo):

1. scum trying to control the town

2. town trying to scumhunt

3. scum trying to seem like #2

4. town trying to direct the town

I'm #2, but my style, from what I can tell, is very... out there.

[RayFrost]

unvote, vote: J.R.

considered it and the blatant rolefishing was really the scummiest thing I've had to note so far.

J.R.

explanation.

now.

[RayFrost]

soyasushi basically said what rolefishing is in her post... (for your reference, J.R., it is when you attempt to get somebody to reveal hints about their role, which is a scum tell, imo)

[RayFrost]

My thought is that J.R. is scum.

Let's lynch J.R.

[RayFrost]

Ehhhh... D1, imo, is mostly built off of players attacking each other for reactions, somebody getting lynched, and then people going from the information of D1 (and the night kill) into the next day.

[RayFrost]

Seriously guys, just lynch J.R.

obv scum

[RayFrost]

Leech:

give me three to five reasons why marble is scum, please.

It's easier for me if I can see a case in one post.

btw, the J.R. case is that he rolefished, which is the single scummiest act so far, imo.

[RayFrost]

The quote examples you showed have a very obvious misunderstanding by you.

I won't say, though.

Marble should respond to the case.

[RayFrost]

unvote, vote: soyasushi

overly defensive of marble.

[RayFrost]

phweet~

unvote, vote: wolframhart

[RayFrost]

"phweet~" is the reason.

unvote, vote: kr0b

callin' a kr0b/soya scum team. any betters? returns are 2:1 on bets.

[RayFrost]

Apologies Soya, not sure why I had completely missed the fact you voted for JR, I call it an honest mistake. You said you were going to re-read the game, Soya, what do you think of Marble as a possible scum candidate?

I'm starting to consider Halvor as possible fishy playing just because of the last couple of posts have been "I won't be active" and "I will be active" with nothing in the posts even remotely concerning the game. Surely if you're active now you can read at least the last page and construct some sort of opinion on whats going on? By all means Halvor, who's scum in your opinion and using your own words, meaning no borrowed reasons from other places, why?

buddying/deflecting ain't it

[RayFrost]

Hmmm... gah, reread the post, and the "I call it an honest mistake" thing wasn't you talking about soya >.<"

there goes that theory.

unvote

[RayFrost]

erik claimed his reasons.

halvor just flaked.

[RayFrost]

When I am on the mafia, I am more concerned with making other people look bad. This is what it seems that Leech is doing.

The next post:

I have not said that you were trying to make Ray look bad.

Marble was saying that you were focusing on making

her

look bad.

Y'see, I was doing something similar to marble early in the game (in her stated opinion), so she was pointing out that you were being inconsistent in attacking her while completely ignoring me. She was asking how what she did (which she thinks is the same as what I was doing) makes her scum while I (who she thinks is doing the same thing as her) am not scum.

I think you are doing one of the following, leech:

1. misrepresenting her

2. misunderstanding her

Considering the extent to which you are pushing this despite the lack of popular appeal, I'd say #2 is more likely.

[RayFrost]

I pushed the issue to see the response. Now,

you

posted it, and she can just pretty much give the exact reason you did. She's latching onto what people are saying so I wanted an original thought, which I can no longer have.

I understood perfectly.

I'll say one more thing:

phweet~

[RayFrost]

So, you understood my reasoning and still interjected yourself into it? Why?

Time will tell.

[RayFrost]

Check the last time I said "phweet~" please.

There is a method to the madness~

My initial pairings were caused by traces of buddying or combined attacking of a single individual. Weak reasons, so I shot them out to get people thinking about it to see if anybody else saw it (helps me feel like I have a legitimate belief).

[RayFrost]

Check the last time I said "phweet~" please.

There is a method to the madness~

Or, you could be straight-forward instead of leaving tiny breadcrumbs. Just a suggestion.

breadcrumbs don't exist here.

[RayFrost]

replacing out is a null tell.

[RayFrost]

ITT, Marble gives up scumhunting.

ITT PiG shows a lack of understanding.

My votes are for teh pressure, and the fact I don't have a case stems from 1. lack of activity, 2. lack of activity, and 3. lack of freaking activity

Seriously, saying stuff should get people to say more stuff, but this seems to be having the opposite effect.

Constantly vote switching and making myself blatantly obvious and noisy is to get people to talk about

something

further than "U EEESSSS SCUMM!!!" "NO I'M NOT!" type things.

Also, a question or five PiG:

do you think it is legitimately scummy to try to start discussion by attacking people based off of flimsy reasoning?

do you think it is scummier to do that than to not contribute to the actual discussion at all?

do you have an opinion on the behavior of halvor and J.R. (guy you replaced, I know) for scummy / not scummy?

what do you consider to be pro-town behavior?

what are your reads for everybody else in this game?

what made you choose the most blatant and noticeable player to go after rather than any others at this point in the game? did you even consider this?

[RayFrost]

I suspect soyasushi.

vote: soyasushi

Although she's stated her suspicions and who she doesn't think are suspicious quite clearly on the people she

has

mentioned, I have yet to see any attempts to actually push for their lynch, apply pressure, or any such thing.

She has stated suspicion of Halvor and then only continues to mention it without following it up with any real pushing, just like "oh, btw, I still suspect this dude"

This kind of attempt to remain in the background is suspicious. The IC can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a form of active lurking.

In addition, she pretty much forgets about Halvor as soon as JR comes into the picture, which shows to me that she doesn't actually have any conviction in her suspicions and is, instead, just pushing for something easy to push for.

Halvor was away, so he wasn't going to defend himself.

J.R. wasn't posting much and didn't go in depth enough to be convincing in defense or offense.

Then she also attempts to misrepresent J.R. requesting replacement as a scum tell. Misrepresentation is a scum tell.

tl;dr:

soya is scum, so vote her.

[RayFrost]

You can just read her in isolation.

At the bottom of the page, look for:

Code: Select all

Display posts from previous: [All posts] by [All users] [Oldest First] [Go]

And click the drop down for all users and click her name (names are ordered alphabetically for all usernames that have posted in the thread)

[RayFrost]

Yes you do Erik.

[RayFrost]

I suspect soyasushi.

vote: soyasushi

Although she's stated her suspicions and who she doesn't think are suspicious quite clearly on the people she

has

mentioned, I have yet to see any attempts to actually push for their lynch, apply pressure, or any such thing.

She has stated suspicion of Halvor and then only continues to mention it without following it up with any real pushing, just like "oh, btw, I still suspect this dude"

This kind of attempt to remain in the background is suspicious. The IC can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a form of active lurking.

In addition, she pretty much forgets about Halvor as soon as JR comes into the picture, which shows to me that she doesn't actually have any conviction in her suspicions and is, instead, just pushing for something easy to push for.

Halvor was away, so he wasn't going to defend himself.

J.R. wasn't posting much and didn't go in depth enough to be convincing in defense or offense.

Then she also attempts to misrepresent J.R. requesting replacement as a scum tell. Misrepresentation is a scum tell.

tl;dr:

soya is scum, so vote her.

I have yet to see soya reply to this at all. Despit eher claim to have done so.

[RayFrost]

Well, 246 was her

first

post since I made that.

she obv hasn't replied.

[RayFrost]

unvote

Give soya a chance to respond.

[RayFrost]

Give her two days.

This way, erik will have a chance to post as well.

[RayFrost]

Soy & erik scum pair - both are scum on their own, which means they are scum together, don't it.

[RayFrost]

Marble:

opinions matter when there is logic stated that support it (and the logic being good leads to a lynch usually).

[RayFrost]

Defeatism/AtE is scummy.

Marble is third scummiest after soya and erik.

we are lynchin' one of soya/erik today folks.

vote: soyasushi

[RayFrost]

erik = lurker

soya = scummy

soya is better lynch choice

[RayFrost]

/ignored by WRH

Anyway, good game guys.

You really should've lynched pie earlier, though! That hammer was obviously scum bussing and trying to stop discussion short. /gripegripe

GG overall.

I have some issues I want to bring up, though.

1. The tunneling on marble was ridiculous. She was one of the obv town players, for serious.

2. The hammer from pie was bussing on an extreme level that I think may have cost the scum a bit. It was too abrupt to be effective as a "hey I'm obv town" flag.

3. trainedmonkey, you coming in then replacing out like that was unpleasant. Please don't do so in the future.

4. I demands that you all (as in those more experienced than me) comment upon my play for improvement tips. That includes you, starkmoon!

And thanks to starkmoon for modding. Stark is definitely my lucky charm as a mod. I've yet to lose (or be scum!) with her as my mod.

[RayFrost]

<3 Zorby