Newbie 864 - Game Over.

[RayFrost]

/confirm

[RayFrost]

/confirm

CC is in this game... I'm gonna die, I knows it.

[RayFrost]

Huh? Why is that? I missed something? Don't worry, I'm not going to take a revenge for you flaking in Deja Bastard, if that's the case

Oh, good.

Anyways, I did that cuz it was tl;dr. I'm sticking to not replacing into games for now~

[RayFrost]

Vote: marcosh

The darting blue fire from the sky told me to.

[RayFrost]

unvote

vote: Sweep

Go go, Gadget bigger bandwagon.

Did I mention the blue fire from the sky had fuzzy edges? We should totally trust it to find scum. Vote marcosh.

[RayFrost]

Sweep is L-1, right? Isn't a bit early for that?

Col.Cathart, why the rush to bandwagon so early?

bandwagons are good, l-1 is not.

Trust the blue fire and vote marcosh.

[RayFrost]

Sweep is L-1, right? Isn't a bit early for that?

Col.Cathart, why the rush to bandwagon so early?

Sweep has 3 votes so he is at L-2. I agree it's a little early to be putting somebody into quick lynch range.

Yay for scum quicklynching~

Seriously, L-2 is not a risk. L-1 is. L-2 requires either TWO stupid townies (I don't see that happening) or TWO stupid scum (I don't see that happening).

Anyway, MARCOSH WAGON NAO!!!!

[RayFrost]

Ah, miss counted.

Sorry, please return to your random voting. If I haven't wrenched us away from that with a serious question.

VOTE MARCOSH NAO!! THE BLUE FIRE COMMANDS IT!

[RayFrost]

Rayfrost do you have any reason to be pushing the marcosh wagon so hard besides it being RVS? I agree with Bach and would like an explanation from Col. Cathart on his reason for a sweep bandwagon.

Any wagon is a good wagon at this point in the game.

MARCOSH WAGON IS GOOD, VOTE MARCOSH NAO!!!!

[RayFrost]

Explanation, why 3rd vote on Sweep? That's pretty simple. I'm trying to take us out of RVS via random wagon. It even kinda worked, as some of you reacted to it.

Ray: Why do you think, that Marcosh wagon is better than Sweep wagon?

I think marcosh is better cuz I've never been in a game with sweep

[RayFrost]

Ray
Is there any other reason why you want to start up a second bandwagon? You have posted numerous times try to convert votes, because you have never played with Sweep before. Or perhaps, you just think that the answer to everything just happens to be 42, and look who happened to post on post subject 42: why marcosh. Very interesting.

Driz

Is there any reason you are bothered by the desire for a second bandwagon?

Marcosh:

Psssssshhhhh, the fact I couldn't be asked to catch up doesn't say much. Anyway, the fact you are bothered by my being in this game is slightly offensive. The wagon on you is purely for your reaction. I'd say your reaction is (to use driz's words) "Very interesting."

[RayFrost]

Parts's reaction is a null-tell for now. He acted cool, but I cannot shake off the feeling, he's kinda worried with already 3 votes on Sweep.

My reaction to Sweep being L-2 was based on my poor understanding of an early game quick lynch opposed to a late game quick lynch as RayFrost pointed out. Anybody making those next two votes has to know they would be prime candidates for a quick lynch the next day. It looks like the RVS is over so

Unvote

.

I'm going to plop into my SE chair for a moment. [SE]*plop* It's quite comfy.

Now, as your SE I'm not technically obligated to give game theory advice or the like. However, I'm going to do so.

Unvoting merely because "the RVS is over" is not a good reason to unvote. If there are currently no better candidates for your vote, then you should leave your vote until you find somebody scummy and thus vote them. That is, unless they start getting a serious bandwagon on them.[/SE]

[RayFrost]

I foresee somebody calling that coaching my scum buddy. It will be hilarious to see who does it first.

[RayFrost]

I foresee somebody calling that coaching my scum buddy. It will be hilarious to see who does it first.

I would hope that most people could see the difference between scum buddy coaching and just helping a new player improve their game play.

It was a joke. Besides, if I WAS coaching you, I'd obviously be far more subtle... I'm a seriously bad town but seriously decent scum player imo

[RayFrost]

I foresee somebody calling that coaching my scum buddy. It will be hilarious to see who does it first.

I would hope that most people could see the difference between scum buddy coaching and just helping a new player improve their game play.

It was a joke. Besides, if I WAS coaching you, I'd obviously be far more subtle... I'm a seriously bad town but seriously decent scum player imo

I am going to

unvote

and

Vote: Ray Frost

. It's a newbie game, so I'd expect more experienced players to be giving out pointers. But what's with this "I'm a bad townie but a good scum player"? Are you insinuating you're playing poorly this game, thus you're town? Or simply trying to garner sympathy through self-deprecation?

the was to give it that "tounge in cheek" feel. I believe I'm decent as town or scum. I just prefer being scum, since I feel I've got a good way to play as scum while I'm still trying to find the right fit for me-town.

I believe I have a bit of history with joking self-deprecation (dunno for sure, never bother meta-ing myself).

At this point, I have no real reason to be doing the AtE (nobody's voting me 'till now, IIRC).

re Marcosh:

I was talking about the game where you all were heathens and killed the blue fire. I couldn't be asked to catch up at that time.

I'd say that two votes is nearing wagon material, wouldn't you? Besides, why overreact to the word "wagon" and also imply that I somehow have a specific reason for choosing you other than you were in the same game as me this one time?

re Pablo:

Oh noes, we be caught in D1!!! D: town winz0rs

[RayFrost]

Firstly to address the panic caused by the wagon in the RVS stage, I was not worried as when has a wagon in the RVS ever led to anything and it is ridiculous to suggest that it ever would.

I do not like this from Ray as other people have pointed out.

I'm a seriously bad town but seriously decent scum player imo

This could be read either way as a town or a scum tell but my reading would be scum currently due to the confident nature of Ray's play and general attitude.

Lol. I am self-deprecating toward my skills even if my play is confident. I could give meta links, but I'm feeling a bit lazy today.

[RayFrost]

Anywaaaaay...

anything else to say other than just repeating what bach said?

[RayFrost]

To the town: how long and in what capacity have you played mafia before? I've been on this site over a year with 13+ games to my name and play a great deal in real life. Tis good fun.

I've been playing since my join date with I don't keep track of how many games to my name... at least 8, though. I'm currently in (including this one)... about 8 games or so. Maybe a few more. I find it quite enjoyable.

I've yet to win in a situation similar to m/lylo, though town or scum. It's frustrating.

re Bach:

"never bothering to meta myself" means I don't bother to go back over the games I've played to read my posting style and the like. That's why I said "I believe" and also offered meta links if you wanted them~

[RayFrost]

Okay, if your feeling lazy we should let this slide.

I don't understand how any of your posts are pro-town. Your just trying to get a senseless wagon started at first and then post some uncontructive short posts and now saying, I'm lazy so I can't be scum.

Example:

I foresee somebody calling that coaching my scum buddy. It will be hilarious to see who does it first.

Vote: RayFrost

Cool story bro.

I'm not saying "I'm lazy so I can't be scum" at all. Nice misrepresentation there, buddy.

If you can't understand how making (or trying to make) a bandwagon early in the game is a good thing, look at what is currently happening: OMG NON-RANDOM REAL DISCUSSION. I'd say I did a pretty good job getting the game shooting off~ Do you disagree?

[RayFrost]

I disagree, Ray.

RVS essentially ended with post 31, with me questioning the wisdom of the sweep bandwagon (also demonstrating an inability to add).

You continued with your random bandwagon on macrosh after that.

A little more on the scummy side, Mr. Frost.

Sooooooooo... your small question was the "end" of the RVS, then?

I guess we'll have to merely disagree, then.

[RayFrost]

Do you really think, this is relevant, who actually ended the RVS stage?

He made it relevant by making it a point against me.

I'm taking him seriously.

[RayFrost]

He made it relevant by making it a point against me.

I'm taking him seriously.

Wait, let me try to get your point - You're thinking that you were the one who ended the RVS, and Bach is ??? (<--- this is the point I don't get) for suggesting otherwise?

Care to elaborate your case here?

I'm thinking I contributed to spurring discussion, and Bach is wrong and not realizing it / stretching to make a case on me.

I don't actually think Bach is scummy as of yet, I am merely pointing out what I perceive to be flaws in his case (thus, defending myself).

[RayFrost]

So, then: if I don't have much of a case on you, why have you spent every single one of your posts for the past two plus days defending yourself? Shouldn't you be out scum hunting?

Not enough posts by others to really try scum hunting with. Thus, I focus on defending myself, which makes sure this topic is, in essence, bumped repeatedly in their watched topics list, ensuring they will, eventually, post.

That said...

Everybody other than Bach:

I would appreciate it if you gave input as to your opinions on the exchange between Bach and myself.

I would also appreciate it if you did not take your sweet time about contributing.

Also,

Zorby: would you mind prodding the unposters?

[RayFrost]

unvote, vote: Pablo Molinero

I probably failed the spelling.

Get in here and post! You, of all people, should know that it is important!

[RayFrost]

Pablo wrote earlier, that he's going to be away for the weekend.

I would appreciate it if you gave input as to your opinions on the exchange between Bach and myself.

I would also appreciate it if you did not take your sweet time about contributing.

Null tell on both sides. Discussion about who ended the RVS stage is IMO pointless anyway, as it's not even a strong town-tell, so there's nothing to fight for here.

That said, I'm not buying Ray's explanation about his defensiveness. True, some people are definitely too silent, and they should post like right now, but don't tell me there's absolutely nothing to look for. For example what do you think about my vote on Marcosh? This vote is 100% serious.

I believe it's decent enough reasoning. About as good as one could expect in Pg4.

Tbh, I didn't epect marcosh's reaction... I'm gonna brb to determine if I want my vote back on him (meta ftw)

unvote

didn't remember pablo's thing about V/LA.

[RayFrost]

Too early to tell for Marcosh.

vote: drizzt

Provide maor content

[RayFrost]

I would also like to hear more from Marcosh and other people.

I would also have to agree that I think the transition between RVS and normal play is irrelevant due to the insignificance of RVS.

Ray is such an obvious target currently due to his activity and prominence in the game, I still think he is slightly scummy but at this stage he is the only one who has said anything.

So,

Unvote

and let's hear what other people have to say.

I'd say I'm a less obvious target, as it means I'm more likely to defend myself, but eh

[RayFrost]

@Zorblag: You're welcome.

@all: Hey guys. And hello again Col.C and Pablo, and anyone else I have played with for any amount of time.

Give me some time to read through the four pages and post a proper intro post with my thoughts and all.

I replaced you in that one game where PP voted me/you in lylo and scum quicklynched before I got to say anything useful. Does that count?

[RayFrost]

I would also like to hear more from Marcosh and other people.

I would also have to agree that I think the transition between RVS and normal play is irrelevant due to the insignificance of RVS.

Ray is such an obvious target currently due to his activity and prominence in the game, I still think he is slightly scummy but at this stage he is the only one who has said anything.

So,

Unvote

and let's hear what other people have to say.

So, wait... you unvoted me just cuz it was out of the RVS, basically?

I, personally, would like to hear the following from you:

1. your read on the exchange between bach and myself

2. your opinions regarding the people that have not posted so far

3. your opinions of bach, myself, and Col. C

[RayFrost]

PP doing the tunnel vision screwed us over more than anything else.

Anyway, let's forget about it

[RayFrost]

Questions:

read on parts?

read on bach?

read on me?

read on anybody other than sweep?

[RayFrost]

To start things off, @ray and col.c: what were your goals with the bandwagonning on the first few pages?

missed this >.>"

Ummm... bandwagon in RVS is

FTW

, 'nuff said. If you don't get it, you are quite confusing.

[RayFrost]

Not game related: Out of curiosity, is losing this many people and/or the low amount of posts common on this site? Or just newbie games? Or is this an unusual amount of 'flaking' period?

As Pablo said.

I find newbie games have a slightly higher likelihood of people replacing out due to the fact that the majority of individuals in said games are, in fact,

newbies

, thus meaning they are unsure of whether or not they enjoy the site, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc...

IKD - answer the questions, unless you want to be in bach's stoo tonight.

[RayFrost]

It feels weird to have to sit around and wait for people to get on so they can answer questions.

IKD - answer the questions, unless you want to be in bach's stoo tonight

I've been looking at this for a couple minutes and I can't figure it out. Is stoo supposed to be stomach?

stoo = another way to say stew

It's from a book.

[RayFrost]

Newb question: Is there anyway to get more than 25 posts per page?

there's a post limit per page. I dunno the max.

[RayFrost]

Less than 24 hours since my last post and people are complaining that I am not posting enough? Seriously?

I was joking around, as I had nothing of contentfulness to say at the time

2) "read on bach?" - Has made 13 posts
-snip stuff on bach-

What is your resulting read on bach from this? I don't see an "overall" read thing, so it's hard to tell

3) "read on me?" - 33 posts. too late for that tonight. Maybe tomorrow if you're lucky.

Cool beans.

4) "read on anybody other than sweep?" there's 2 of the 3 asked. if you hadn't posted so much already, that might have been 3/3. Although instead of waiting for my opinion, how about you go get your own and post it as well?

1/3, you mean. didn't say your read on bach though you did summarize the posts. I believe my opinions are already known, but, if they aren't, I can give them easily: parts = leaning town and bach = neutral

You're welcome to direct me to things if you feel that I haven't covered something. Just try and be patient; we have time. No need to threaten to make me your dinner when I am not even near prod range.
Oh, and for the record, there's only 1 "a" in my username, and it's in "david". I am not "a" king david, I

am

king david.

Bach seems to have misunderstood me inmy post (As have you, I think). I was merely asking some questions that I wanted to know the answers to, NOT implying that I was not satisfied with what you had given so far. The comments about bach were joking (oh noes, I fulfilled a scum tells )

Sorry for missing anything. It's easy to gloss over things. If I miss something later, feel free to point it out and I'll address it. BTW, What is "ad museum"? Google had nothing for me.

I think he meant the phrase that means "at great length" I forget the spelling atm

You've just pretty much repeated what everyone else has said on these issues so far.

Did you expect me to have a radically different opinion on every issue? There's only so many different ways to say the same thing, and when I agree with someone, I'm not going to spend my time trying to figure out how to re-say the same thing differently.

I agree with IKD (rhymes are awesome)

I would just be saying 'lynch lurkers' but 1) game is too small and 2) too many to choose from.

So by this I assume you support the Lynch All Lurkers idea? If not, correct me. If so, in general (not necessarily this game, as you already gave those two reasons in your post), do you think it is more beneficial to lynch lurkers or replace them?

[imo]I find it anti-beneficial to lynch lurkers for the most part. If an active member can replace an in-active member, there's no need to remove a potentially pro-town role from the game based on their inactivity. once they start actually doing something scummy, then we'll talk. but while they aren't doing anything/much at all, I say we just replace them.[/imo]

Once again, I agree with IKD

.....have at it.

[RayFrost]

Had to fix a bold tag.

Mod, will you delete the first one of these for me?

Done.

[RayFrost]

I unvoted Ray because he was the most obvious target so to speak and my vote on him was for mainly this reason I realised. Sure that joke could be interpreted as a tell but after reconsidering I am going to take it as a joke.

I'm going to do an iso of a few players later and post my thoughts then.

Sooooo... you voted me because I was an easy target, realized how scummy that could be seen as, and thus unvoted to avoid seeming scummy?

AMAZINGLY AWESOME SCUM TELL MAN!!!

unvote, vote: sweep

Evilgorrilaz better come in with some justification or something.

[RayFrost]

I unvoted Ray because he was the most obvious target so to speak and my vote on him was for mainly this reason I realised. Sure that joke could be interpreted as a tell but after reconsidering I am going to take it as a joke.

I'm going to do an iso of a few players later and post my thoughts then.

Sooooo... you voted me because I was an easy target, realized how scummy that could be seen as, and thus unvoted to avoid seeming scummy?

AMAZINGLY AWESOME SCUM TELL MAN!!!

unvote, vote: sweep

Evilgorrilaz better come in with some

reasoning

.

Fixed

[RayFrost]

Hi.

*is awestruck by amazing reasoning and opinions*

Anyway, I recommend answering the following questions:

Opinion of Captain Obvious?

Opinion of seacore?

Opinion of the case(s) against CO/Seacore?

Opinion of Zachy's lack of proactiveness?

Opinion of every other player?

[RayFrost]

Hi.

*is awestruck by amazing reasoning and opinions*

Anyway, I recommend answering the following questions:

Opinion of Captain Obvious?

Opinion of seacore?

Opinion of the case(s) against CO/Seacore?

Opinion of Zachy's lack of proactiveness?

Opinion of every other player?

lol, I completely posted this in the wrong game DX utter mix up and fail...

mod, if you wouldn't mind deleting the quoted post and this one?

[RayFrost]

RayFrost:
slightly scummy. have not gone through a lot of his posts because he posts too much. wishy-washy behavior. srsly, please stop posting just for posting's sake. makes sorting through this stuff so much harder.

1. I don't post for posting's sake (except for like... my first three posts, which were banter), considering that my posts were either in response to somebody or for something else that is of value.

2. What part of my posts are "wishy-washy" in your mind?

[RayFrost]

Weak argument is still better than no arguments at all.

No argument can't backfire like a weak one can.

No argument can't give details of your thoughts to solidify reads like a weak one can.

[RayFrost]

2. Pardon my mistake. I was tired last night. Did not mean to say wishy-washy. I mean that quite a few of your posts have confusing logic to me. Do not get certain things, like second bandwagon, the weird overreaction to Bach's first accusation, and some others.

Second bandwagon cuz 2 is better than 1 in getting reactions, imo. If you bandwagon two players, there are two possible BWs to choose from, meaning it might provoke more throught from people as they decide which they like more...

I defend myself as thoroughly as possible for the following reasons:

1. If I can explain what is considered scummy, then I should do so to give people a chance to get a firmer read on me or determine the validity of argument/defense

2. If I shrug it off, it'd get fewer reactions, less conversation, and less information.

[RayFrost]

Unvote

Hell nah to the lynching.

Bach:

Why did you put the L-1 vote on sweep before any kind of defense/reasoning/etc was put forth by Sweep?

Sweep should, at minimum, have a chance to defend 'imself before being put at

high

risk of being lynched.

[RayFrost]

@Ray: Yes, I know I just did something dangerous, but I was really curious what type of reaction it would provoke. Yours is pretty telling.

Oh do tell~

What has my reaction informed you regarding myself oh great and powerful Bach?

[RayFrost]

That's OZ to you.

I think it's a strong town tell for you to unvote there...unless Sweep is scum.

OZ? Old Zombie?

Eh, if sweep is scum it becomes a null tell, as both scum and town have incentive to unvote here (scum to stall the lynch, town to stall the lynch)

[RayFrost]

I have some more thoughts about the latest situation, but I won't reveal them just yet. Carry on with discussion, I'm interested in posts of certain people.

You have any views on this discussion?

As I said - yes, but I want to hear some more from Bach, You, Ray and others, before telling it.

er... what are you expecting from me?

I've got nothin' to respond to here (atm).

[RayFrost]

Where were you, anyways, sweep?

Your point on Bach is a solid point on scum. They try and ride whatever wagon's hot at the moment and throw around their vote with little abandon. Bach was the first one to throw up those flags, as many people seemed to catch on.

Ummm.... I got to point something out here.

Bach was the

first

person to come at me, so he couldn't have been just riding the waves on that.

Sweep case:

voted for somebody that he thought was the "obvious target" (scum vote for the easy people)

unvoted when I said how I'm not due to more likely to be responding (newb-scum unvote when pressured cuz they don't believe their votes are solid)

and also: voted bach when suspicion was garnering around him

From my point of view here, sweep has been riding the curttails of wagons more than anybody else, has shown some rather serious scum tells, and not only that... he's been active lurking.

All in all, if my vote is on sweep (too lazy to check), I'm happy with it.

[RayFrost]

oh, right.

Well, I'm quite comfy with his lynch, but I would like to hear more from EvilGorrilaz before voting (I'd prefer that everybody post enough that I feel I have at least a marginal read on them, y'know?)

[RayFrost]

No, no.

Sweep votes for the popular,

easy

target cuz he's the popular easy target

I point out how I'm not an easy target

Sweep unvotes

[RayFrost]

sweep's case on bach is weak and contrived~

I also see a bit of strawmanning on the case against him

I'd prefer to wait for a bit more discussion before the lynch, but I would be willing to hammer / put sweep at l-1 at this point.

[RayFrost]

I also see a bit of strawmanning on the case against him
.

'Him' is ambiguous here. Me or Sweep?

case against sweep

[RayFrost]

I think the case against him (sweep) is weak and hinges on him changing his mind being a

solid

scum-tell. In my 2nd game ever, I got lynched (as town) on Day 2 for re-evaluating my thinking and changing my stance a few times while scum subtly prodded the idea along that changing one's mind is the worst thing evar. I'm seeing it basically happening again and it's bringing back the bad memories. Now, I feel that changing one's mind could very well be either a town-tell or scum-tell, but it's situational and in this case, I don't see it as the scum-tell version. I will be glad to break down this thought process later.

I have a few ideas formulating on who is scum, but I'm going to do a reread sometime over the weekend before I can solidly go after someone.

eeeeehhhhh... not quite.

It's more changing your mind from one post by somebody else without stating any reasoning for changing your mind and (this has been added) trying to downplay the case against you by picking out the weakest point and basically saying "this is the case! look how bad it is!" and then also going "look! this person is scum for [insert terrible, illogical stuff]!" gives a nice feel of trying to deflect attention away from himself.

Look forward to your reads, though.

[RayFrost]

Sooooo... you voted me because I was an easy target, realized how scummy that could be seen as, and thus unvoted to avoid seeming scummy?

Sweep was scummy because he bandwagoned and realized that bandwagoning is scummy. As is, it is a slight scum tell. I find your L-1 much more scummier. Your later justification seems much more appropriate (the inconsistent logic and such), but I cannot forgive you for your L-1 play.

What L-1?

I haven't placed anybody at L-1 I unvoted when sweep was at L-1 cuz it was way too early in the day and many people hadn't contributed to discussion, and I wanted to have at least some kind of read on everybody and the like.

How is this scummy?

[RayFrost]

It was Bach who gave the L-1

Mind explaining how that gives viable reason to suspect me?

[RayFrost]

EBWOP:
@Rayfrost
The quote of you is something that Bach referred to when he placed his vote. He said the reasons for his L-1 were summed up in your post. I used your quote because it was appropriate to do so. Your quote is the reason's for Bach's L-1, which I find to be a terrible reason for a L-1.

Would that not also make it a terrible reason to vote, and thus make my vote terrible?

[RayFrost]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

[RayFrost]

I'm going to quote sweep's vote post and his subsequent unvotings~

Okay, if your feeling lazy we should let this slide.

I don't understand how any of your posts are pro-town. Your just trying to get a senseless wagon started at first and then post some uncontructive short posts and now saying, I'm lazy so I can't be scum.

Example:

I foresee somebody calling that coaching my scum buddy. It will be hilarious to see who does it first.

Vote: RayFrost

I would also like to hear more from Marcosh and other people.

I would also have to agree that I think the transition between RVS and normal play is irrelevant due to the insignificance of RVS.

Ray is such an obvious target currently due to his activity and prominence in the game, I still think he is slightly scummy but at this stage he is the only one who has said anything.

So,
Unvote

and let's hear what other people have to say.

In his above post where he says he never "realized" voting me was scummy, he said I wasn't the most likely to be scum, yet he doesn't vote anybody else or show any suspicions elsewhere.

Thus, I would be "most likely" to be scum.

I unvoted Ray because he was the most obvious target so to speak and my vote on him was for mainly this reason I realised. Sure that joke could be interpreted as a tell but after reconsidering I am going to take it as a joke.

I'm going to do an iso of a few players later and post my thoughts then.

Here I feel he contradicts himself. He says I'm the "obvious target" for being active. He then basically says he doesn't consider me scummy at all anymore (backtracking, perhaps?).

The great mystery to me is why I seem so scummy. I'm just here saying what I believe to be correct but in other people's eyes it is not. The simple fact is that I am a newbie town player who constantly gets bombarded with scum accusations when the probabilities that I am every game are very slim.

People are getting all worked up about how I placed vote and then took it off as people do all the time and if I was scum how am I ever going to win by not voting for anyone. In fact I was not the only player to do this as Bach removed his vote but everyone was satisfied with his reason.

My feelings at this point would be that Bach is most likely scum due to the jumping around on different players. Each post is isolated, after the vote there is no expansion on reasoning and instead is focused on defence.

Vote: Bach

I feel the first bit is an appeal to ignorance and appeal to (in)experience.

Second bit is deflection and straw manning, imo. He focused on a single point against him rather than the entirety while also saying "look! bach did the same thing!"

Third bit is piggy backing rewq's reasoning.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP:

forgot to mention...

Despite having said he'd iso a few players, he hasn't really given his thoughts on anybody.

He piggy backed rewq's reasoning, did some appeals, deflection, and straw manning, but hasn't really given any

reads

of the players (excluding the "bach is scum for doing something I did, oh and what rewq said" stuff).

This attempt to avoid giving any reads or similar is scummy to me, since (newb and general) scum don't like giving reads for fear of what tells may be gained from it...

[RayFrost]

I will be placing my vote later tonight. As I've said, I'm not happy with a sweep lynch and only a little happier with a Bach lynch.

Reasoning please.

What exactly about the case I put forth is not compelling?

Who do you think is scum, then?

[RayFrost]

I will be placing my vote later tonight. As I've said, I'm not happy with a sweep lynch and only a little happier with a Bach lynch.

Reasoning please.

What exactly about the case I put forth is not compelling?

Who do you think is scum, then?

Ignore the second question, your vote has answered that one.

[RayFrost]

I'm still reading the case against sweep as him going after the obvious target and then stepping back and changing his mind (OMG!). I hate

hate HATE

the word "backtracking" when improperly used, like I think it is here. It should be used when someone holding a deep-seated belief suddenly changes later in the game. But here it was a relatively short period of time between sweep's vote-unvote and I think sweep adequately analyzed and explained himself.

His jump on the Bach-vote isn't exactly great, but I can't blame a guy, particularly a new player, for taking the only out he's got. That part reads neutral newbie to me instead of scum/townie.

And as I've said, a townie doesn't have to give reads on EVERYONE EVAR unless specifically asked for a read on someone. Concentrating on 1-2 (maybe 3?) people is the way to go, IMO.

If a person promises to give their reads on everybody, is it appropriate for them to then

not

do so and instead just jump on "the only out he's got" instead?

[RayFrost]

sweep lynch isn't happening.

i is sad

unvote, vote: evilgorillaz

stuff regarding IKD made by the gorilla is

classic

deflection, imo.

[RayFrost]

I thought I was, IKD

also, I remember trying to convince pablo that the sweep case is good and that sweep should be lynched

^--- this shows intent to lynch

'nuff said.

[RayFrost]

sweep lynch isn't happening.

i is sad

unvote, vote: evilgorillaz

stuff regarding IKD made by the gorilla is

classic

deflection, imo.

Read post 288

what about it?

[RayFrost]

rewq - piggy backing the reasoning of another player is a scum tell when you try to pretend otherwise (even if you don't, but it's not as good then)

[RayFrost]

Gorillaz:

at this point, I like a you-lynch more due to a slight edge of scumminess that drizzt had in his limited time with us. Marcosh felt slightly townish.

Just looking at your play and IKD's play, I'd not care about which of you died.

tbh, this is an unfair thing cuz you can't explain drizzt's reasoning for his decision to vote and then use bach's reason for suspecting me as a cover for his own empty vote (this is how I view it).

marcosh at least seemed like he was trying to help town.

Again, unfair to both you and IKd and blah blah blah, but that's how it is.

Of course, if you flip town, I already have a mental plan in place. I'll keep it a secret for now.

[RayFrost]

it's a terrible defense by IKD.

self-meta is bad

giving people links so they can meta is okay

re the votes:

bach seems town

sweep seems scum

that's really it.

personal bias.

really.

unvote

going to step away and reexamine this stuff to determine which is scummier >.<"

gotta reign in my bias and stuff

[RayFrost]

bach has applied pressure, been active, scum hunted... (see him questioning me for examples)

can't get a full post out atm.

[RayFrost]

Vote: Col. Cothart

I don't like his play so far.

I feel that, though he's asked questions, he hasn't taken a role that is very distinct or pro-active in helping the town. This helps scum and is scummy.

The motivation I can come up with for him just sticking to the background is to 1. let the town tear at each other & 2. to avoid notice

Neither of these are pro-town motives.

Following from this, CC is scum.

[RayFrost]

I'd be fine with a EG or CC lynch here.

[RayFrost]

@ Town: can we get a CC lynch, he's so obviously scum that it's hurting my senses.

[RayFrost]

Busy weekend. I'll try to post my suspicions as well as respond to Ray, but I'm not promising anything.

This is enough of a response for you to lynch him, Ray?

Of course.

I think he's scum.

I want his lynch.

Seriously.

[RayFrost]

I'll let Ray explain. If he's doing what I think he's doing this is the right move.

Hows about you explain your reasons and I explain mine after?

[RayFrost]

I do find CC to be slightly scummy, but I

did

overemphasize it to see what would happen.

phweet~

Rewq failed the test though.

unvote, vote: rewq

didn''t respond to my CC suspicion at all and plain ignored it, which seems to me that he doesn't care much about finding scum (if he agrees, he should've said so as town, if he disagrees, he should've said so as town. he didn't)

[RayFrost]

@RayFrost
What do you think of how rewq reacted to CC's gambit?

CC made a gambit? When? O.o

[RayFrost]

Rewq asked a normal question, then did a scummy thing (saying "fair enough" with nothing more is a scum tell dammit!), and then he failed to be either scummy or townish.

[RayFrost]

Requesting the role claim is odd, as there is not any consensus on a you-lynch and he had a town read on you before.

That is also scummy.

I'm liking the rewq vote.

[RayFrost]

Why thah fook would I fakeclaim cop? Seriously, I'm not the type of guy to claim what he ain't as town.

[RayFrost]

Mod - rewq means prod, not probe

[RayFrost]

rewq should claim.

unvote

until then

[RayFrost]

vanilla townie claim?

vote: req455

doesn't change a thing.

[RayFrost]

EG:

explain your sudden shift of opinion on rewq

Parts:

explain how EG is better than rewq

This is not a request.

[RayFrost]

What about rewq's posts say town?

[RayFrost]

That makes no sense, EG.

Make a case.

Now.

[RayFrost]

So all your scum pairings include rewq?

Do tell how this makes sense, will yah.

[RayFrost]

EG, say all of your pairings and how they make sense and how

no pairing excluding rewq

makes sense.

[RayFrost]

I see it as more... if rewq flips scum, EG has little to no idea where to go from there.

After all, he won't think everybody in the town is scum.

[RayFrost]

So... you are paranoid, think everybody is scum, and then just decide which one is more likely to be scum with all the other scum?

I really am starting to get a playstyle difference here...

[RayFrost]

Yeah, my playstyle is completely different from EG's, and, tbh, I don't have much in the way of respect for EG's. >.>"

It seems like a big excuse to vote/lynch anybody cuz, hey, everybody but me is scum right?

[RayFrost]

Both fail.

Both are playstyle

Both aren't my playstyle and are so utterly bad from my PoV that I can barely stand it...

seriously...

if I didn't think rewq was scummier at this point, I'd be voting EG.

If I had a day vig power, I'd use it on EG.

If I could have two lynches, it'd be rewq/EG.

I think I've made my point.

[RayFrost]

Wait a sec...

Bach is the only one not voting.

We have two people at L-1

Both of which have what could be considered decent cases.

This means Bach is the deciding vote

[RayFrost]

I'm confused...

How thah fook am I a potential partner for EG?

Seriously.

[RayFrost]

Or I could be bussing a partner that is obv scummy in order to avoid being on the townie lynch, or I could be distancing, or this, or that, or...

[RayFrost]

You sayin' I am worried just cuz I'm defendin' myself punk?

Seriously, if you think me questioning your reasoning is worried, then you should find everybody as "worried," including yourself.

If you don't like the way I go about it, then eh. That's playstyle.

[RayFrost]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

Wait, was I nightkilled?

Oh, right, I was.

Why?

I suck at lylo.

I've gotten it right in lylo 0/2 times as town.

[RayFrost]

Lacey - whether or not you killed that night is dependent upon the players.

If you had EG, zach, and bach where bach thought EG and zach were obv town, eg thought zach and bach were obv town, and zach wasn't sure...

then you would be in trouble.

If there was suspicion across all three, no kill would be best.

[RayFrost]

Zach, don't feel bad.

I've screwed up as scum and town more often than doing well.

My record kinda says so.

[RayFrost]

I prefer scum to town.

I fail way too much as town (yet somehow end up the NK target... wtf) to enjoy it.

[RayFrost]

I prefer scum to town.

I fail way too much as town (yet somehow end up the NK target... wtf) to enjoy it.

It means you are either better than you think, or you do actually do a better job at playing pro-town than you think.

You do actually seem competent from what I've seen of you Ray, though

you do have a tendency to unpredictably change your mind and act quite eccentric at times

.

I have mixed feelings about this.

[RayFrost]

"People who are impossible to lynch:

Pablo Molinero
RayFrost"

[RayFrost]

I have trouble in lylo... I can never decide to trust my gut or logic.

I get it wrong most of the time.