Newbie 864 - Game Over.

[Bach]

/confirm

[Bach]

Vote: Col. Cathart

For being first, and stealing my hatred of cliche fantasy characters. 2 reasons more that your average random vote!

[Bach]

Sweep is L-1, right? Isn't a bit early for that?

Col.Cathart, why the rush to bandwagon so early?

[Bach]

Ah, miss counted.

Sorry, please return to your random voting. If I haven't wrenched us away from that with a serious question.

[Bach]

@Col Cathart: Lame attempt at humor on my part. It's a personal trademark.

I foresee somebody calling that coaching my scum buddy. It will be hilarious to see who does it first.

I would hope that most people could see the difference between scum buddy coaching and just helping a new player improve their game play.

It was a joke. Besides, if I WAS coaching you, I'd obviously be far more subtle... I'm a seriously bad town but seriously decent scum player imo

I am going to

unvote

and

Vote: Ray Frost

. It's a newbie game, so I'd expect more experienced players to be giving out pointers. But what's with this "I'm a bad townie but a good scum player"? Are you insinuating you're playing poorly this game, thus you're town? Or simply trying to garner sympathy through self-deprecation?

[Bach]

@Pablo: First game on this site. I've played many games over the past year on another site, and modded a couple (Modding one now, actually).

That site has a really heavy meta-game, and we generally play under a slightly different rules set. I very much consider myself a n00b here.

@RayFrost: While I'm all for humor, especially in the early goings, I can also see it as a minor scum tell. I think Pablo's estimation of scum (generally skittish) is pretty spot on for most scum players. It's easy to mask that skittishness with humor. And this statement here...

I believe I have a bit of history with joking self-deprecation (dunno for sure, never bother meta-ing myself).

...is a bit fishy. Sooo, you're giving a meta-game defense, but you don't bother meta-ing yourself?

[Bach]

Waiting for the deadline is a bad idea, imho.

Best for the town to reach a majority decision, rather than have it foisted on us. We learn more that way.

[Bach]

I disagree, Ray.

RVS essentially ended with post 31, with me questioning the wisdom of the sweep bandwagon (also demonstrating an inability to add).

You continued with your random bandwagon on macrosh after that.

A little more on the scummy side, Mr. Frost.

[Bach]

I'm thinking I contributed to spurring discussion, and Bach is wrong and not realizing it / stretching to make a case on me.

You have definitely helped in spurring the discussion. It's been mostly you and me the past couple days. I both realize and appreciate your level of activity - but that's not the sole reason I've been hounding you.

Not sure I'm stretching anything, Ray. Really - I've called you 'slightly scummy.' Are you a bit worried about my line of questioning?

I don't actually think Bach is scummy as of yet, I am merely pointing out what I perceive to be flaws in his case (thus, defending myself).

You have expended a lot of time defending yourself. I think it's pretty clear I don't have much on you. Your logic is a bit flawed in spots, but could be as much from a poor choice of words as anything else. You've been using humor, but I can't very well peg you as scum wholly on that. Really, I don't have much of a case. We can both agree on that.

So, then: if I don't have much of a case on you, why have you spent every single one of your posts for the past two plus days defending yourself? Shouldn't you be out scum hunting?

[Bach]

Ray's response in post 81 is a good enough answer for me to unvote him. We have been the only two who have been very active, so I can't very well criticize him for not going after anyone else.

He IS getting downgraded to FoS status; he was quite defensive even before I started on him - even preemptively so. I could still come back to him.

Unvote
FoS: Ray Frost

I'm waiting for more people to post. I may have another vote soon. Nice to see some convo again.

[Bach]

Bach: Why the unvote without voting anyone else? Little pressure is still better that none at all IMO. You cannot generate any heat (which leads us to more discussion. more discussions = good for town) without voting on anyone.

Eh, a fair cop. I considered that when I was typing the post up, that I might be stifling discussion by closing out an argument without opening up a new attack. But I really just didn't see anyone else I could jump on logically right then. I'd be getting a prod right now had I said nothing.

@imakingdavid: I have to agree with Ray here. All that back and forth between me and Ray, and all you pull out is the "scum buddy" quote?

Also, on the whole "who ended RVS" thing: Ray made a vague claim about his conversation breaking us out of random voting; I countered saying

I

did simply to pressure him (posts 72-73). He reacted well to it (post 76). Others (Parts, Col Cathart, Sweep), have commented ad museum on it. You've just pretty much repeated what everyone else has said on these issues so far.

Vote:imkingdavid

. To possibly be removed upon a more substantive post.

Maintaining my gnarly

Finger 'o Suspicion: RayFrost

for aforementioned reasons.

[Bach]

Not game related: Out of curiosity, is losing this many people and/or the low amount of posts common on this site? Or just newbie games? Or is this an unusual amount of 'flaking' period?

[Bach]

KK. Sorry for derailing discussion.

Ahh, ROARRRR! imkingdavid answer Bach questions or Bach EAT HIM! GWARRR!

[Bach]

I would just be saying 'lynch lurkers' but 1) game is too small and 2) too many to choose from.

[Bach]

Apologies for my absence the past few days. No excuses.

I won't respond to every statement about me/thrown my way. Suffice to say I'm happy with everyone's opinion of me right now. If I missed any specific questions put my way, I missed them, and I'd be glad to answer them if they are pointed out to me.

I let up on Ray becuase he answered my attacks to my satisfaction. It was poor form for me to not refocus in the same post, granted. imkingdavid gave me a substabtive post (indeed, more than I wanted, lol) - all I wanted from him.

Sweep seems the scummiest option at the moment. I will cite Ray's post; I don't have anything significant to add to it aside from my agreement with it.

Unvote
Vote: Sweep

Yes, I know I am putting him at L -1.

[Bach]

@rewq: I've explained my attacks on Ray elsewhere, but I'll do it again for you. My goal was to provoke reactions from him. Ultimately, my attacks on him revealed (imo) over defensiveness. However, he also made a sound point that he is drawing heat primarily from his post volume. This, coupled with the state of the game at the time (many absences, incoming replacements) made me feel I had little more to gain by attacking him right then. There's room for your opinion on how appropriate that is, but that was my reasoning.

However, I will definitely say that my vote for imkingdavid was entirely appropriate. I wanted some pressure on him to immidiately produce a sounder argument than "Sweep seems scummy." I got more than I asked for. My vote is my weapon, and I will use it to provoke reactions. It's worked for me...and it just worked for you.

@Ray: Yes, I know I just did something dangerous, but I was really curious what type of reaction it would provoke. Yours is pretty telling.

[Bach]

That's OZ to you.

I think it's a strong town tell for you to unvote there...unless Sweep is scum.

[Bach]

@Rewq: The vote jumping accusation is pretty ridiculous. I've had clear reasons for every vote I have made. Ray was for pressure, imkingdavid to provoke a more detailed post, and Sweep to put him at L-1 to gage reactions from everyone.

You think I am scummy for pushing Sweep to L-1? Fair enough. You know what's odd? Pablo was about to do the

exact same thing

but caught himself (as per his own admission). Shouldn't you find him just as scummy?

FoS:Rewq

[Bach]

*sigh*

Gauge

reactions. That's like my umpteenth typo. I can't speel anymore.

While I am here: what does ISO mean?

[Bach]

I have a few questions for Sweep.

This is from Post #184

My feelings at this point would be that Bach is most likely scum due to the jumping around on different players. Each post is isolated, after the vote there is no expansion on reasoning and instead is focused on defence.

I have voted for three people outside of RVS. Can you give me an example where I did not either have a reason for my vote at the time, or make it clear in subsequent posts?

Also: what is risk bearing? Why are my three vote changes scummy?

[Bach]

You didn't answer the important question, Sweep. You claim I had 'no expansion or reasoning" for my votes. I wanted examples - because I know I have given clear reasons for all of my votes. IKD specifically - if you look at the post, I clearly state I'm looking for a more substantive post. I got it. I saw nothing scummy. I unvoted.

It's amazing what a vote can do to provoke reactions - heck, look at your post volume now! Would you prefer we all just talk and never vote?

I'd almost be willing to chalk up your defense to differences in play style (for me, lynching lurkers is a necessary threat, since where I usually play, we don't have replacements), but you are ignoring part of what I am saying in favor of a storyline that paints me as scum. This strikes me as more scummy than anything else I've seen so far.

[Bach]

@Rewq: My initial FoS was for jumping on me for doing the same thing Pablo was about to do (put Sweep at L -1, Post #163).

I'm keeping it there for the way you've sprung to Sweep's defense and tagged along on his fuzzy logic.

[Bach]

I want to hear from Pablo, Col Cathart, and Evilgorrilaz before we decide on wether or not to lynch Sweep.

For those three: what are your feelings on a Sweep lynch? If we are to lynch him, why? If not him, then who?

[Bach]

I also see a bit of strawmanning on the case against him
.

'Him' is ambiguous here. Me or Sweep?

[Bach]

Don't wait too long to get back to us with other options Pablo - we've only got a few days left.

If you truly think Sweep is being falsely accused, there is only so much time left to build a case on someone else.

For my part, I am willing to lynch Sweep today. His poor logic in his case against me is damning. I can still be swayed, but he has so far seemed the most scummy of targets.

[Bach]

I want to hear from Pablo, Col Cathart, and Evilgorrilaz before we decide on wether or not to lynch Sweep.

As Pablo said the case against me was weak and hinges on exactly one fact.
Your trying to restrict the options here so that I am the only person going to be lynched.

If you truly think Sweep is being falsely accused, there is only so much time left to build a case on someone else.

While you also removed your vote from Ray and didn;t vote for someone else. You may have had a good enough explanation but then all the pressure was directed at me rather than you. Hence along with the vote changes my vote still stands.

Sweep, I'm not sure if you get this: I'm not positive about you being scum. I only put you at L-1 to begin with to see what would happen. But you've since acted the scummiest of anyone here, with your poor logic in your attacks on me, and general panicking. I'm seriously looking for other options. Posts like this where you're misrepresenting my questions don't help, and only make me more comfortable with a decision to lynch you.

However, I still want to hear from Pablo one more time. I don't think there is enough time to build a case on anyone else...but I want everyone's thoughts on this lynch well out in the open.

@Pablo: Why were you ready to put Sweep at L-1? Do you truly believe I've been 'riding wagons' (Post #186)? Since you've gone from ready to put Sweep at L-1 to defending him, who would you lynch in his place?

unvote

For now - I don't want the day to end prematurely until I hear from Pablo again.

Oh and...

Vote:Bach

I agree with rewq.

Please look at Parts avatar for my reaction to this. This is the most useless post so far this game.

FoS:Evilgorillaz

I'm withdrawing my Ray Frost FoS, for anyone who cares. Rewq's still stands.

[Bach]

Hopefully Parts will be back - his absence may get a townie (me) lynched.

If your reasons for voting for me are simply because I put Sweep at L-1, consider two things: I am taking chances to provoke reactions from the town. I have been agressive in scum hunting. I have been clear about my reasons for doing what I have done. Lynching me does a disservice from the town - paticularly since I can now see there are misguided townies voting for me.

Ask yourselves this: if you are voting for me, and are prepared to lynch me for putting Sweep at L-1...will you lynch Pablo tomorrow for attempting to do the same thing, only to be beaten to the punch by seconds? Does this sound rational?

I will post more in the morning - omw to work atm. I still believe Sweep is the best choice - he hasn't given me a reason otherwise yet.

[Bach]

Sorry, those are not two things. I can't count.

[Bach]

Giving up on the Sweep lynch is, I think, bad for the town. I understand Pablo's argument of 'he's a n00b, he's panicking, he doesn't want to get lynched.' My problem with that is: this is a n00b game. How often to you write off mistakes just because we're n00bs? How many times do you let a n00b scum slip through the noose? Where do you draw the line on that type of thinking?

However, I can see it's moot with Parts' leave of absence. The numbers are not there. Well, this is why I keep FoS.

So, my heat is coming almost entirely from my decision to put Sweep at L-1. Contrary to what some of you are thinking, this was an awesome idea. Dangerous, sure, but there were so many positives from my point of view I had to do it.

First, we didn't end up with a premature lynch - and I frankly don't think there was much of a danger in one. It would have been a massive scum tell for the hammer, regardless of whether the hammer was town or scum.

Second, I have drawn the heat I was looking for. A few votes is a great thing if you're town; having some suspicion about you is good for keeping from getting shot at night (you look like a good lynch target tomorrow). The big benny here though is I got a bit of a wagon on me from doing such an obvious 'scummy act' (according to Rewq and Evilgorillaz)

Thirdly...yeah, damnit, I

did

want to see what would happen. Perhaps some of you are totally new to Mafia. I'm just a n00b here - I've been playing Mafia online for a year now. One thing I have never played in, though, is this classic 'majority style' voting. I've been dying to try something funky. The stagnating discussion, Sweep's mild scumminess, combined with him being a L-2 with two weeks left, was the perfect storm in my eyes.

So, we come to what I have left: a bandwagon on me. Judging by the veteran players (ColCathart, Ray, Pablo by his own action), putting someone at L-1 is not a scum tell in and of itself.

[Bach]

damnit...one moment, hit 'submit' early

[Bach]

(continued from post #276)
...

But I can easily see how it could seem like a scum tell...and why it would be a logical bandwagon to hide in if you're scum. I'd be a better lynch target for scum than Sweep anyways - after I flip town, they can easily point to my dangerous play as their reason, just like the other townies in the wagon will say.

My supposition is one of the people voting for me is Mafia. Three are on me right now.

First on the list is Sweep. I'm going to start from scratch here on him. His case against me is thin; 'vote hopping' in addition to the L-1. It really does look like an OMGUS to save his own butt. Still...he's backed off some. He may have seriously been looking for a way to attack without falling down the slippery slope of going full defense. Meh, either way - if he's scum, it seems logical his scum buddy would have to join him to try and lynch the next best target. If he's town, he starts a tempting bandwagon. This looks like WIFOM (am I right?), so I'm going to discount him.

#2 is Rewq. He comes on second, and he's ALL about the L-1. He begins with attacking my Ray Frost attacks, also seem to miss the point I'm probing for reactions early game. After that though, L-1 is all he cares about. He has a great circular post (#245) where he quotes Evilgorillaz and agrees with him...where Evilgoirllaz in the quoted post was showing why he agrees with Rewq!

#3, and finally, is Evilgorillaz. He pops on at the end, flat out agreeing with Rewq's attacks on me without much additional justification. Wait, he does have additional justification in post #244. He says he is pointing to Rewq's post for his reasoning for his vote...just like I pointed to one of Ray's posts when I put Sweep at L-1. It's scummy when I do it, but not when you do?

So, it's down to Rewq or Evilgorillaz. Both are tempting; they're here for my one perceived 'scummy act' and nothing else of substance. One of them has, or thinks he has, a good scum tell. I think the other is tagging along in hopes of hiding out in a 'safe vote' with a good out if I get lynched.

Rewq strikes me as the townie here. He's focused on me, and was very happy to have someone else agree with him (Evilgorillaz), vindicating his opinion. I can appreciate his aggression, at least, even if I feel it is misplaced.

Evilgorillaz is my pick for the scum. Tagged in after a couple others already set the ground, hasn't brought anything new to the discussion, and has sown some trust with a townie (Rewq).

In summation: out of the three voting for me, one is likely scum because of the easy excuse of voting for me, with me making a 'scummy' move by putting Sweep at L-1. Sweep is unlikely because he started the chain, and was acting out of self preservation (assuming it is him is WIFOM). Rewq has been agressive and focused on me from the door, and doesn't seem like he is willing to let me go easy - aggressive Townie. Evilgorillaz has tagged along with nothing new to add, taking advantage of the easy excuse in case of my lynching - scum.

Vote:Evilgorillaz

Note 1: Apologies for the extreme length of these two posts. I am quite tired, and am not arranging my thoughts as clear as I should - doing a lot of thinking with my fingers while my head nods.

Note 2: To veteran players: am I interpreting WIFOM correctly w/regards to Sweep? And is putting someone at L-1 for reaction purposes usually seen as a scum tell?

[Bach]

Again, even if it is "deflection" what differentiates me agreeing with rewq and IKD agreeing with you? Both me and IKD basically said we agreed with someone else's logic.

I ended up having to explain to Bach (and you) what rewq meant.

IKD ended up lurking.

Rewq, in answer to your question from a page back directed to me about why Evilgorillaz is scummy for following you, here is a bit more evidence. Apparently, Evilgorillaz is your interpreter, and as Ray pointed out, he jumped on your reasoning against me with little of his own.

It smacks of either scum buddying (pretty blatant), or scum trying to buddy up with a Townie. I'm leaning towards the latter, mostly because I don't think either of you are that stupid for the former.

FoS:EvilGorillaz

Not voting just yet...too few to lynch now.

[Bach]

Busy weekend. I'll try to post my suspicions as well as respond to Ray, but I'm not promising anything.

This is enough of a response for you to lynch him, Ray?

[Bach]

Huh.

[Bach]

EBWOP: My 'huh' was posted prior to Col Catharts long post above.

@Ray, Parts: My 'huh' was directed at you two. I was

really

curious what you had going on with Col.C, cause he was striking me as too trustworthy. I agreed with your first post this day. And you went and shat that angle down the drain. Parts, you had been off my radar as well. Both of you just slipped up badly, imo - regardless of you being town or mafia.

I am not prepared to vote or FoS either of you right now, but you are on thin ice. If you're going to go after someone and want to convince townies to go with it, make it convincing. "WE LYNCH NOW" and "YES LYNCH HIM" are not good arguments.

First of all, a word of explanation - that 'thing' I noticed and promised fireworks was a hoax.

This is not jumping out to me in your ISO. Post #?

Also, I disagree with you on Evilgorillaz. His actions have been far scummier than Sweep's. Pablo's estimation of Sweep as 'scared n00b', while distasteful to me, seems apt. Evilgorillaz has been guilty of not adding anything of his own to the discussion, tagging along on poor logic, and bandwagoning.

My FoS, and intention to lynch, Evilgorillaz, stands.

[Bach]

@Ray, Parts: My 'huh' was directed at you two.

Ray

, I was really curious what you had going on with Col.C, cause he was striking me as too trustworthy. I agreed with your first post this day,

Ray

. And you went and shat that angle down the drain. Parts, you had been off my radar as well. Both of you just slipped up badly, imo - regardless of you being town or mafia.

Edited for clarity. Bit tired.

[Bach]

Hello gentlemen. Apologies for my absence - Thanksgiving got the best of me. Please give me a few hours to read over the thread (omw to work atm).

[Bach]

I am the deciding vote. Good golly. Lots of power. I picked a nice time to come back, lol.

EG, I think you know I am fully prepared to vote you off. I'm going to do an ISO on you. If you happen to pop on soon, make your final case to not be lynched by me.

Rewq, same goes for you. I will do an ISO on you as well.

[Bach]

This...

Pairings excluding rewq do make sense. Its just those that include him right now make more sense.

Reason this out for us please. I'm just not seeing it.

Let A,B = random person excluding me and rewq who is alive
Let C = rewq
Let F(X,Y) be a linear map from R2 -> R1

abs(F(A,B)) <= abs(F(A,C))

Plus this...

Can we lynch him now?

Actually I'm confused now. Do you guys not get my logic? Or is it the reasoning behind the logic?

Makes me want to beat you up, btw. Not lynch you, just hurt you. Maybe, just maybe, your explanation was a bit lost on those of us with math allergies hmm?

This has little to do with whether I'm going to lynch you or not - my personal anger towards math is not a logical reason to lynch - just wanted to give you a heads up that stuff like this does not endear you to people like me. This is a game of language. I like words. Please use words.

Still doing my ISO's. Just wanted to vent.

[Bach]

OK. I have made my decision. I will type up and save my reasoning.

Rewq, EG, I believe you both have the right to one last post.

And hey...scum buddy voting for one of these clowns? Don't unvote. Don't hammer. It will come across loud and clear what you're trying to accomplish.

[Bach]

*cough* Apologies for my string of posts here...

EBWOP: I can still be swayed. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.

[Bach]

Well, I was hoping for more out of EG. It's a not enough for me to change my mind...though it doesn't make me feel better about my decision.

...........

Interestingly, both my targets today are people who voted for me on Day 1. I firmly believe that my original supposition (one of the three voting for me is scum; Bach ISO#30) holds true. I just hope I get the right one.

EvilGorillaz has been my target from late in Day 1. He has committed the following scummy actions: He tagged on to Rewq's attacks on me, without adding anything (Day1); acted as Rewq's interpreter (post#301). Surprisingly, this is all I got from his ISO. Those attacking him are annoyed with his playstyle (me too), but I understand where he is coming from with his 'everyone but me is scum' line of thinking. A vanilla townie has only one solid fact to work from: he knows he is town. He has acted consistent with this line of thinking.

EG's potential scum buddies: ColCathart, RayFrost. Neither of these two are high on my scum list...if I am mistaken, it is a grave one I have made.

Rewq I decided was Vanilla Townie on day 1 due to his focus on me. I didn't agree with his reasoning, but I could respect it. I also thought him and Sweep as a scum buddy pair was way too obvious, considering how quickly he sprung to the attack on me. Rewq's scummy posts: asking EG for a claim out of the blue (ISO#36); claims to have 'pressured' CC previously in response to Ray's accusation...check his ISO, his 'pressure' post (ISO#28) is weak; his poor reaction to CC's gambit (EG sums this best @post#356); more subtle rolefishing, poor argument. (ISO#49). There's more, but my general read is he has made a mountain of errors in Day 2.

Rewq's potential scum buddies: Parts, Sweep. Want to see something fun? Go do an ISO on Parts. Find 'rewq'. Parts has a pretty high opinion of him, doesn't he? Rewq hardly ever acknowledges Parts. Sweep has so few posts, but he's an obvious potential scum partner (see Day 1).

So, logically, I must bring the Hammer of Grabthor down upon Rewq. I hope I am right.

Vote: Rewq455

[Bach]

Based solely on the current vote spread. Assuming no one is getting bussed, you and ColC are potential partners with EG, and Sweep/Parts for Rewq.

[Bach]

WIFOM city, duh. Its simply more likely, if EG was scum, that you or Col C would be his scum buddy.

What are you worried about, Ray? Don't think Rewq is scum?

[Bach]

No...that's a non-answer.

Wasn't your big problem with EG your dislike of his playstyle? And now your offering up the same illogic defense? Shit, Ray...I wasn't even pressuring you.

I now have a bad feeling about my choice.

[Bach]

NO VOTES. We're in lylo now.

Ugh. So, I've been consecutively wrong. N00b indeed.

They should have left Ray alive...I was going to gun for him today.

With Ray's death, I have to assume our scum buddies are Col C. and EG. Col. C has been staying away from EG for the most part. He's also been very friendly and supportive of me all game...and damn me for falling for it.

I'd say we lynch EG today, Col C. tomorrow. I'm going to skim over the thread in the next two days, see if I'm missing anything else.

Remember, NO VOTES.

[Bach]

@ColCathart: Sweep/Parts? Are you saying Parts was bussing Sweep on Day 1?

[Bach]

Since everyone seems to agree I'm Mr. Good Guy Townie, I'd like to hear who everyone else would like to lynch, and specifically, their reasons for it.

@Parts: I would like you to make a case against EG (as you have pointed out you agree he should be our lynch target today). I gave my thoughts on him yesterday when I decided to hammer Rewq. I'd like your perspective...want to make sure we're going in the right direction.

As this will likely decide the game today, please note post #'s.

Welcome ZachRulez. Hopefully this won't be your only day with us.

[Bach]

Hey Bach, please respond to my mass claim suggestion and either object to it or nominate someone you'd like to claim.

I am fine with it. Col C. Can go first.

[Bach]

Well, since you're here, Zach, and Parts isn't...

On day 1 Sweep was quite close to being lynched. Col C. seems to be of the opinion Parts was bussing Sweep. As Sweep's reincarnation, what is your take on Day 1?

[Bach]

Now, Parts please.

:nod:

[Bach]

I want more, Parts. Make a case.

@ColCathart: Describe, in detail, how EG is different from Sweep. Both have been bad n00bs in my eyes. What is the difference between them? Why is Sweep a better target than EG?

[Bach]

Vanilla. Duh.

[Bach]

Hi, I am here. Yeah, I suppose I should V/LA myself till after the 1st, though i may be available before then. It's not a matter of not being able to access a computer, just quite busy.

[Bach]

Apologies for flaking out guys. I had a wicked rough time over the holiday with work, and didn't have the time - and frankly, the inclination...not sure I have the stomach for these really long games - to get on.

Great play ColC. I had you pegged as scum for buddying up to me...but the scum pairings likely would have led me into mislynching the next day (though Lacey offing EG was weird...not sure what I would have done). Parts played his part well too.

I believe due to my flaking, I have to do another N00b game before I can strike out into theme games. Is there any games on this site that move a bit...quicker? Not sure I want to subject myself to another n00bie game if day phases that go on for 19937465 days are the norm in all games.