Newbie 864 - Game Over.

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/confirm

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Vote: selecao

For having no avatar at all.

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Sweep is L-1, right? Isn't a bit early for that?

Col.Cathart, why the rush to bandwagon so early?

Sweep has 3 votes so he is at L-2. I agree it's a little early to be putting somebody into quick lynch range.

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Rayfrost do you have any reason to be pushing the marcosh wagon so hard besides it being RVS? I agree with Bach and would like an explanation from Col. Cathart on his reason for a sweep bandwagon.

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Parts's reaction is a null-tell for now. He acted cool, but I cannot shake off the feeling, he's kinda worried with already 3 votes on Sweep.

My reaction to Sweep being L-2 was based on my poor understanding of an early game quick lynch opposed to a late game quick lynch as RayFrost pointed out. Anybody making those next two votes has to know they would be prime candidates for a quick lynch the next day. It looks like the RVS is over so

Unvote

.

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Thanks for the tip Ray. I'm finding that there is a large difference between reading these games as an observer and actually playing the game and having your every action and word analyzed.

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I foresee somebody calling that coaching my scum buddy. It will be hilarious to see who does it first.

I would hope that most people could see the difference between scum buddy coaching and just helping a new player improve their game play.

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To the town: how long and in what capacity have you played mafia before? I've been on this site over a year with 13+ games to my name and play a great deal in real life. Tis good fun.

This is my first game of mafia played on a forum though I have read some games on here before i signed up to play. I have had some experience playing an IRC version of mafia but it doesn't really compare.

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I don't think Ray is scummy right now, it looks to me like Ray was trying to spur more discussion after Col Cathart abandoned his wagon and stalled any discussion about it.

I think Bach has jumped on Ray because it's really the only thing to go on right now in terms of scum hunting. I disagree with him that what Ray did was scummy though.

I agree with Ray that we need input from some other people even though I haven't been as active as I should have. I look to remedy that starting right now.

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I don't like Sweep's response to Bach and Ray's argument. He says that he finds Ray slightly scummy and calls him an obvious target but unvotes him anyway. I'd like a bit more explanation about the unvote.

Vote: Sweep

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It is disappointing to have so many replacements but hopefully the replacements will help us pick up the pace of the game.

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It feels weird to have to sit around and wait for people to get on so they can answer questions.

IKD - answer the questions, unless you want to be in bach's stoo tonight

I've been looking at this for a couple minutes and I can't figure it out. Is stoo supposed to be stomach?

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Ok thanks. I was seriously confused.

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Less than 24 hours since my last post and people are complaining that I am not posting enough? Seriously?

It feels weird to have to sit around and wait for people to get on so they can answer questions.

You'd best get used to feeling weird then; this website isn't my first priority in life, so I get on when I have time, and no sooner.
Besides, it's been less than 12 hours since bach directed those "questions" (which I fail to actually see any questions from him, btw)

That waiting comment wasn't directed at you, I wanted sweep to explain his unvote a while ago. Just wanted to clear that up, more substantive post coming in the next hour.

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Newb question: Is there anyway to get more than 25 posts per page?

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EBWOP: might as well answer this before I leave:

Newb question: Is there anyway to get more than 25 posts per page?

Nope. I think they disabled that functionality because it keeps the thread uniform for all players (so that one person doesn't say like "we're only on page 2" while another person has it show less posts per page, so they're on, for instance, page 5. Or something). But don't quote me on that.

Ok well that's disappointing, would have made it much easier to reread the thread. Thanks for the answer though. Here are my thoughts on the players so far.

The only thing of note Col. Cathart has done is announcing his bandwagon on Sweep. He said he was doing it for reactions and to push us out of RVS but he dropped it immediately after being questioned about it. This seems odd to me, if you're doing it for reactions why drop it so quickly?

Overall very slight scum read on CC.


Rereading Bach the first thing I noticed during my iso read of him is that in iso 4 he replies to CC that his previous post was meant to be humorous. Than in iso 5 he calls humor a scum tell. That is extremely inconsistent. Argument about the end of RVS seems to be mainly pointless and a null tell.

Overall leaning slight scum read on Bach.

On Ray I'm getting a town lean from most of his posts. He kept up his random bandwagon on marcosh until there was something real to discuss, pretty much the exact opposite of CC. I like the questions he's asking people and trying to get people to lay out their thoughts and take a stance. Pro town.

Overall town read on Ray

About IKD I can't really disagree with his analysis on me at this point. I think his analysis on Bach is good and I'm glad that somebody noticed the humor discrepancy scum tell in Bach's two posts. Need more posts and interaction from him to get a better read.

Overall slight town read on IKD


The rest of the players haven't posted enough meaningful content for me to get a read on them. Also the phrase you guys were looking for is ad nauseam.

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Huh? Either it's me, or you missed something. I dropped it, because I had all the reactions I wanted (ok, except from Sweep, my bad). I also posted my thoughts about it, so I don't know where is your point coming from.

Yes I did, I was very tired when I did my iso read of you last night and I missed the second post where you explain to Pablo of what you thought about the reactions you got. That changes my read even though I agree you should have held off for at least a reaction from Sweep. I now have a neutral read on CC.

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I just started replacing Sweep today, so this may be a little late, but Col.Cathart seems to be changing his mind a good deal. Does this seem scummy to anyone else but me?

Got any examples for us?

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@mod I will be V/LA until Monday the 16th

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The great mystery to me is why I seem so scummy. I'm just here saying what I believe to be correct but in other people's eyes it is not. The simple fact is that I am a newbie town player who constantly gets bombarded with scum accusations when the probabilities that I am every game are very slim.

It doesn't matter whether you are actually town or not it's the fact that people find your actions in this game scummy that is getting you attacked. Using probability as a defense against scum accusations is completely worthless. The only thing that matters is this game in which you have the same chance of being scum as the rest of us. I find your lack of an actual defense very scummy.

People are getting all worked up about how I placed vote and then took it off as people do all the time and if I was scum how am I ever going to win by not voting for anyone.

This whole sentence is just full of WIFOM. Also I'm not worked up over your unvote i thought it was odd that you said Ray is the only person you find scummy and unvoted him anyway. I still don't find your reasoning very compelling.

I'm happy with my vote staying on sweep for now.

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Ray really laid out the case against Sweep and I can't put it any better than he did though It looked to me that Sweep's vote on Bach was more OMGUS than opportunistic. If somebody wants me to lay out my own thoughts I will.

Under this logic

voted for somebody that he thought was the "obvious target" (scum vote for the easy people)

Then if people succeed in Scum hunting then they should not lynch them as they are not likely to be scum. The most obvious person is always the person which gets lynched due to the fact that they are the most obviously scum to most people.

Are you saying that scum will never vote for easy targets? Ray is saying that it is easier for scum to jump on an easy target where they won't have to explain themselves.

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@Pablo: I don't think OMGUS is scummy, I read it as a null tell. I said that because I was disagreeing with Ray on Sweep's reason for his vote on Bach and I wasn't counting it as a point against him.

My vote on Sweep was just a pressure vote because I wanted a better explanation of his unvote. I kept it there because I didn't think his explanation was very good and I wanted to hear more from Sweep. Then in Sweep's next post(ISO 9) he comes out with an appeal to probability and some WIFOM. I find both of these things scum tells because they aren't persuasive in a logical and rational way.

I admit I've been tunneling on Sweep so far and I will be doing a re-read of the thread soon to see if somebody else catches my eye.

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I'm getting slammed with work too. I won't be able to get anything up until tomorrow.

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Parts, does your "pressure vote" still apply?

I have a quick break between classes so I thought I would reply to this. Did you completely miss post 210? My pressure vote changed into a real vote when I found Sweep's reasoning for his unvote completely illogical and his responses after that made him look worse to me.

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@MOD V/LA Until wednesday the 25th for a family emergency.

Unvote

since I won't be able to change my vote before the deadline. Sorry guys.

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Quick post before I leave for the night. I really dislike when somebody either answers questions for somebody or just tires to tell other people what they meant. Let the person who used the words explain themselves. It looks to me like evilgorillaz is buddying up to rewq for whatever reason.

Vote:EvilGorillaz

About my unvote on Sweep, I unvoted him because I didn't want him to get lynched by my inertia vote and a vote from IKD with absolutely no case behind it if Sweep had started to look town to me. I still think he's scummy though.

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@Mod can we please get a prod on Evilgorrilaz it's been more than 48 hours since the thread opened.

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I'm totally up for a CC lynch.

Unvote Vote:Col.Cathart

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I'll let Ray explain. If he's doing what I think he's doing this is the right move.

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vote: Parts

Sheeping. Very, very

VERY

scummy.

I think Ray is obvtown. I'm willing to ride along with him for a while.

@Bach: Sup, you have more of a response than that? Wanna get on this train? Choo Choo.

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I'm guessing you were either a cop with a guilty result or somebody pulling a gambit for reactions. If it wasn't one of those I am going to feel very very dumb.

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It's not nice to get me that excited Ray. Oh well it got some super neat reactions that I'll make a post about later tonight. No later than around midnight.

Unvote

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My eyes refuse to stay open for me to type out this post. So I will be heading to bed and I will finish this post tomorrow.

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Still waiting for Parts to post.

Feel free to post in my absence next time. I woke up this morning and I'm sick so I went back to bed. I woke up a few a hours ago.

CC reacted to that gambit like I expected him too as town or scum since he was the target of the wagon. I think CC has been active but ineffective. He has played some gambits but they've generated weak responses overall. He's been scumhunting but I think it's been preety ineffectual. I think it's pretty strange that CC thinks he is an easier lynch than EG considering 3 people have said they would lynch EG and a wagon on CC earned some serious questioning. Scummy but not as high on my list as EG/Sweep.

CC: Do you honestly think I jumped on you because you were an “easier” lynch target than EG?
Edit: Just saw your post so you know it was a gambit but I still would like this answered.

Bach: Have your opinions changed since it was revealed to be a gambit? Do you still think me and Ray are scummy?

Ray may indeed be a cop and then he is going to be in trouble with a claim,

What do you mean by that? Since if you read the post before yours you'll see that Ray did not claim cop. Is this rolefishing? If it is please stop.

Also I felt that CC has an about neutral read from me. I had, and still have, nothing to say for him or against him.

I find it hard to believe that you have nothing to say about CC's contributions to this game and his scumminess or lack thereof. Any kind of opinion or analysis would be helpful.

I still think EG is the scummiest person in the game but since he is likely to be replaced pressuring him for responses is useless. So my number 2 on the list is Sweep. His defense consists of WIFOM and appeals to emotion with no actual scumhunting to speak of.

Vote: Sweep

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CC: Understandable. I agree sheeping is scummy but if anybody else had voted you I would have unvoted. I was hoping that if somebody else got on Ray's wagon he would explain what he was doing.

Rewq: I agree the scumtells get passed on to a replacement and I do support an EG lynch but since he isn't here right now there isn't any reason to vote him. If EG comes back or he gets replaced you can be sure my vote is going back to him or whoever takes his slot so I can get some answers.

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I'm really sick now and I can barely concentrate at all.

V/LA Until Wednesday or possibly Thursday

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If I were to claim anything else, I would be lying and the either a) cop or b) doctor would vote me saying that I am lying. If anything that would hurt my case.

I'm back. I think Ray is saying that a vanilla townie claim shouldn't save anybody from a lynch.

Going to read what I missed now.

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@Parts
What is the difference between your buddying to rayfrost and mine to rewq?
Can you explain what kind of reaction you were going for with the gambit?
What answers are you looking for?

I don't think I've been buddying Ray at all. I did jump on his gambit wagon but that wasn't buddying. I wasn't going to ride his wagon all the way to a lynch if it came to that. As for the gambit I wasn't looking for any specific reactions, I just wanted to see what people would do. Looking for answers was the wrong way to say that. I wanted more meaningful contributions than your day 1 play which had no reads and constant piggyback reasoning.

Even with rewq's recent rolefishing I'm getting a town vibe from him. I think EG is the better lynch for today.

Unvote Vote: Evilgorrilaz

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Or I could just find you scummy. I think it's this one.

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Look at EG's iso he has done nothing substantial all game. He just skates along and never gives any kind of reasoning for what he's doing. His only reads listed are right when he replaced in and we've gotten nothing from him after that. Now he's just jumping on rewq after using rewq's reasoning all of day 1. Looks like he's shooting for the easy lynch.

Rewq's last couple of posts just say town to me.

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His push for a claim by EG just seemed like noob town rather than scum rolefishing to me. It looked to me like he really thought that EG was gonna get run up to L-1 in which case a claim made sense. His resignation to his lynch reads genuine to me. It's more a gut read than anything though.

He is a common denominator. Might as well lynch the denominator than the fringe.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Please explain.

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Yea how do you reason that one out? So if rewq flips scum we lynch everybody?

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So what will you do if we're in a setup with no cop?

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Pairings excluding rewq do make sense. Its just those that include him right now make more sense.

Reason this out for us please. I'm just not seeing it.

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Can we lynch him now?

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We want to know why you think that. With evidence taken from people's posts.

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It was only following because you were saying I agree with rewq with no other reasoning. People want you to show scumtells from people's posts.

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How about this. Pairings including rewq are scummiest ATM.

Seriously not helpful. I agree with CC this is getting annoying.

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Reading the last two pages just gives me a headache.

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Yay the tiebreaker is back.

And hey...scum buddy voting for one of these clowns? Don't unvote. Don't hammer. It will come across loud and clear what you're trying to accomplish.

What do you mean by this? You think one of them is being bussed?

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EG is still my number #1 pick for a lynch considering his actions yesterday. He was just scummy beyond belief. Gonna look through the vote counts later to look for a pattern.

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@Mod:

Can we get prods on sweep + evilgorillaz please?

Ok lets try to get some discussion going.

CC: Why do you think me and Sweep are more likely mafia than EG is? How sure are you that the mafia team is me and sweep instead of me + somebody else or sweep + somebody else?

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I just noticed that EG has not posted his scumlist that he promised day 2, get on that.

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So are you saying that I shouldn't be aiming to get anti-town players lynched? It looks to me like that anti-town behavior worked perfectly for scum EG. He stalled all day and didn't have to put any of his own reads down or do any analysis and the day ended with a mislynch. This day has begun and CC is still vouching for him when he hasn't done anything of substance since D1.

CC EG scum pair seems the most likely.

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Hello Zach!

How should we do the mass claim?

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Alright that makes sense. My vote is for EG to claim first.

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Bach if you check post 472 my thoughts about EG are in there. My main computer is fried so I lost the notes I had. I'll add to that that the only person we know his current thoughts on are rewq and he is dead. The last time he tossed down his reads was when he replaced in on Day 1.

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Vanilla here too. I want EG to claim next.

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I don't think he's just acting in an anti-town manner, I think he is acting in a manner that is advantageous to scum. The only person he has any kind of connection with is rewq when he jumped on his reasoning end of day 1 and then got him lynched day 2. This seems like optimal scum play to me as he has been able to coast through the game offering up next to nothing for the other players to get a read on him with. Col. Cathart here is also letting him off without suspicion on the basis of meta when EG's meta is an excellent cover for scummy behavior.

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I'll still be here but it won't be much of a game with just 2 of us.

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Actually I think this day has just cemented a pair of EG-CC in my head right now. I'm reading your points on EG being town and I understand them but I'm not really buying into them. About his misunderstanding of the setup I think it's possible that he is the goon and has forgotten about a role blocker completely. In his post 512 he completely ignores you when you ask for a scum list and he has still not provided it. How have you not pressured him more for that?

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I don't like the part of your Bach case that just seems to be some poor/odd word choice. I'm not going to hold those word things against him as I do the same thing some times and I don't think it's scummy. I do agree with your assessment that he seems to have stopped scumhunting after he came in as the deciding vote day 2. That he seems to think himself the uber-townie and everybody has to make cases to him is points against him but it doesn't push him ahead of EG/CC for me.

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@mod

Can we get prods on Bach and EG please.

I agree with you that Col.C is scum it just seems that have different ideas of who his partner is. Unless something substantial happens I have no problem
letting EG and Bach give some input and then my vote will go on Col. C as well.