Newbie 849 (Game Over)

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/confirm

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Vote: crazypianist1116

/conform

Feeling a need to conform to the town? A scum slip maybe?

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My vote wasn't random

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Had it just been a simple typo then he would have corrected it after using the preview button. However, he chose not to, which leads me to believe that he knew what he was doing and could possibly be indicative of alignment. In addition, the vote also gets us out of the Random Voting Stage (abbreviated RVS from this point on), and moves us on to pertinent discussion.

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But why joke about something that could be interpreted as a scumslip? That just brings up a whole bunch of WIFOM. (Follow the link if you don't understand.

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@mipe

1. I have been on here for a year and a bit and I have played quite a few games, failing to adjust my sig after they all finish, however.

2. I just enjoy playing mafia and wouldn't say I prefer one side over the other, as long as I am in a game and having fun.

3. I am a decent player, not the best, not the worst, so I would say a 6 would be a fair rating for me.

4. My favorite role is a one-shot vigilante. It can be a very good role if you know how to play it and are very careful with your one kill.

@marcosh
Who knows what he could hope to gain by posting that deliberately, a scumslip however, is not a deliberate action, it is by definition a slip and therefore something consciously unintended.

WIFOM is a lot easier to understand if you actually watch the movie

The Princess Bride

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Thank you everyone except crazypianist for defending him. I will now stop my pursuit of his possible slip. I realize that I did contradict myself when posting and I should come under suspicion for that, but I merely wanted us to get out of the RVS as quickly as possible as often that could be a huge stall in the beginning of the game. I am just trying to show you guys what people in later games may try to do to you this way you are prepared, after all this is a newbie, and as the IC I am playing to win and to teach you guys what to watch out for.

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I understand where you are coming from Azelf, but upon making that glaring contradiction, I couldn't pursue what I was trying to say any further as the contradiction would be pointed out by everyone, so I backed off. Had I not made that contradiction, I probably would have tried to get a defense out of crazy, but I am also trying to show people what might happen in future games as that is my job.

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That was actually the only time that I was really going to say anything related to that, I am playing the game to win. From here on out, if anyone has any questions for me, I will answer them so long as they don't interfere with my win condition. That was merely to get my point across, but this is just pointless debate and distracts us from what we should really be doing, which is trying to find scum, not talking about how I word my posts.

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No I do not believe that you should not lynch a player because they are more experienced, in fact, I have been lynched or NK'ed in both my other games that I have IC'd. I did not mean to convey a belief that I am any better than anyone here. Could I have phrased it better, most definitely, but I didn't so I will have to take what comes and dig myself out of a hole that I have dug myself into.

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I was trying to see if I would get a reaction out of crazypianist based on what I actually did see as a typo. However, the fact that everyone except crazy seemed to react to it, that backfired big time, and as a result I have come under suspicion, and rightly so. I have played very poorly to this point in the game. I am not, nor would I ever, use my IC status as a defense on why I shouldn't be lynched. In fact, if I didn't already know my alignment, I would be pushing for my own lynch, because that's how poorly I have played right now.

By saying what I said regarding my win condition, how is that an attempt to stifle debate? You are all assuming that I don't have the town's best interests at heart, which none of you would know while I am still alive, unless you are scum. The only way to even test that is to play the game and decide from that, not based on what I said I would do.

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That is not a WIFOM statement at all. WIFOM more has to do with looking back on actions and seeing why would Person A say that as town or why would Person B say that as scum. That statement would mainly be seen as an Appeal to Emotion.

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Edit By Way of Post (EBWOP for short): Appeals to Emotion are generally seen as scummy as they play at what people are feeling and generally try to dissuade people from voting.

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Regarding Santos- V/LA is something that will happen to most players during a particular game of mafia. While he may have a week of our analysis to read, he will still have to read all of it, and we will be expecting a lot from him when he gets back, so he will still have a lot of work, and he will have to formulate his own opinions after reading everything we have said for the next week.

I would like to hear more from crazy, however.

What defense are you looking for from me python?

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1. Well, we could have gotten answers out of crazy as to whether it was actually a typo or if he had deliberately meant to type what he did, and based on his reactions could have possibly found out if it was a legitimate typo or a scumslip.

2. So basically what you are asking here is, what questions can't you answer and what answers can't you give? I don't see how that would be possible for me to answer regardless. Looking back at that, that was probably something I shouldn't have said, but I did, and we all make mistakes, I have to deal with the consequences of that mistake.

3. I don't expect you to be able to "vouch" for me at all, in fact, you can't "vouch" for anyone in this game unless you are the Cop who has an innocent on someone, to confirm them as town, or unless you are scum and you know who is and isn't town.

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My explanation was in my original post. A need to conform to the town, it is a stretch, but I was also searching for reactions from him as well, as I believe I stated in my previous post.

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1. Well, we could have gotten answers out of crazy as to whether it was actually a typo or if he had deliberately meant to type what he did, and based on his reactions could have possibly found out if it was a legitimate typo or a scumslip.

Scumslip? How?
If crazy would have said 'it was a typo', there would have been no information to get.
If crazy would have said 'I meant that', only information we would have is that crazy knows some Mafiascum memes.

Next day, on my first post, if I would say "Sigh.. X dued" instead of "Sigh.. X died", would that make me a scum?

I personally don't understand how a simple typo can be a scumslip.

If he had typed /confurm it would have been nothing, but /conform can have many different meanings so it could have been, but this is just beating a dead horse, as we now have confirmation that it was intentional.

As for your example, you would come under suspicion just for saying that, regardless of the typo. One thing you don't want to do is speculate about nightkills. Most of the time it just brings up a bunch of WIFOM.

@Crazy
You are discounting the RVS too much, many serious votes have been made in the RVS. With that said, it turns out that my vote was wrong so I will

Unvote

as now I have answers to what my vote was originally there for.

Now for my analysis of what has happened so far:

Azelf: Can't really tell what he is going for, seems to be trying to keep a safe distance from me while almost trying to buddy-up with me. For either town or scum this really doesn't make any sense to me, as scum would want to severely distance from a player under suspicion and town should be attacking a player under suspicion. Current leaning town

Crazy: Been very quiet to this point, need more time to determine a true read

Marcosh: Very active to this point, looking at many different options, not too quick to act, leaning town

Mipe: Asks questions at the beginning of the game, which are still being answered, Seems to be questioning the wording of my posts, telling me what I should say, neutral read leaning scum

Python: Seems noncommittal on my lynch even though he is "95%" that I am scum, scummiest player I see so far because the only reason to say that would be knowing that he is wrong. By saying that I am at L-1 tries to gain townie points from people

Santos: V/LA until Friday, so will withhold analysis until he is back

Staple: Seems all over the place and not able to focus on one thing, suspects Santos which doesn't make sense because V/LA is something very common on the site and in life. Neutral read

zzzz: Reading your posts and name put me to sleep. Jokes aside, you haven't really been an active part of this game, would like to see more.

With all of that said, I will

vote: Python

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[quote=Azelf]fuzzylightning: Screws up a lot. This could be the signature of a player who's just not very good, but how he kept pressing his mistake as a scumslip even after confessing it was a mistake strikes me as suspicious. I'd still rather withhold judgement until I see what more he has to say, though. [/quote]

Slightly confused on what you are saying here

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@Mod

Please fix quote tags in my above post, thank you.

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@Azelf, he never actually said whether it was deliberate or not until his post today, so therefore it wasn't clear that it wasn't a typo/scumslip.

@marcosh, Prior to today, I really hadn't had a chance to read through the game and develop a view on anyone because I was being blasted for poor play and was largely on the defensive. So now that I have had a chance to read everyone's posts in iso, I was able to formulate my own suspicions. It had absolutely nothing to do with what crazy posted at all.

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I think his insistence is slightly odd, and I really don't understand why he would say that. Just because I responded to individual posts, doesn't mean that I was reading to get reads on people. The posts from me were trying to defend myself on the posts about me, not really analyzing what people were saying. As far as your theory is concerned, that seems like a huge gambit to try and implement in a game. Especially a game like this. I would have no reason to follow anyone's lead on anything, especially with the amount of pressure I have been under to this point.

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Python: Seems noncommittal on my lynch even though he is "95%" that I am scum, scummiest player I see so far because the only reason to say that would be knowing that he is wrong. By saying that I am at L-1 tries to gain townie points from people

This sounds to me a LOT like OMGUS. It's like your sending two messages, it's bad to lynch you because you want us to believe you're town, but it's also bad to not lynch you because I'm just trying to gain town brownie points, as you stated it. I'm not really sure that this double bind is fair, reasonable, or possible to function within.

I don't think you understand my stance on voting you. I voted for you, this proves the commitment that you've been looking for. I also think you are easily the scummiest player in this game -- this has also been outlined in my previous posts. This I think is ultimately the action that gets the town furthest. That said -- I would NOT push for your lynch page 2 or 3 even though I want you voted out because we can't get more productive discussion. When doing a reread of this post after the night, the more material we have to read, the better off we are. This helps the town a LOT more than just a quick lynch.

That said, was putting you at L1 so early a mistake, probably if newb's would hammer you without realizing the forewarning I put forth. To me, it just doesn't make sense that any town player would hammer page 2 or 3, meaning anyone that DID hammer was probably scummy and at least not pro-town. But even if I didn't vote for you and insisted you were scum, you would still be making these last ditch arguments that I wasn't "committed" enough which are impossible for anyone that's scumhunting to function within, since you're suggesting that people abandon watching everyone else when they think someone's scum, and this doesn't help the town as much as staying vigilant does.

I don't think you understand what OMGUS is, I have a legitimate reason for voting for you. You seemed to be noncommittal on a lynch (it happens to be me, but even if it wasn't it would be the same thing aka not OMGUS) of a player that you feel is almost definitely scum. You put that player at L-1 then proceeded to say that vote put him at L-1 so don't lynch him just yet. Why vote if you didn't want the lynch at that time? I was already under enough pressure that I had to answer, L-2 and L-1 have very little difference at this stage of the game, except the huge one, that L-1 puts a player at a much larger risk of getting lynched. So its more a content thing, you want me lynched but not yet? That still doesn't explain putting me at L-1. I would rather you hadn't voted and used the well that would be putting him at L-1 reasoning for not voting because that shows that you do want the lynch but you are not ready for it yet, as opposed to the vote and oh, he's now at L-1 so no one else vote.

FoS: Everyone who has speculated a link in this game

: Setting up lynches is very scummy, you cannot know someone's alignment until they are dead, so as such, you shouldn't be looking for connections until you know what the person has flipped, at that point you go back and look for any possible connections that player may/may not have made. You should not be making those connections right now.

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The deadline day lynching procedure is at the discretion of the mod, so if the mod states that the day will end with a no-lynch unless there is a full majority then that is what happens if the day ends and no one has a full majority.

Personally, I prefer a no-lynch unless there is a full majority, because it forces players to do something at the end of the day or risk not having a chance to catch scum, a simple majority lynch could backfire on the town if people just left there votes on a person without really thinking about it.

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It looks like Azelf screwed up his quote tags b/c a lot of the information was clearly in crazy's posts.

How do you figure that I already know everyone's alliance? Putting words in another's mouth is generally a poor decision as it just makes you look scummier. When I am defending myself based on individual posts I am not reading for oh is this coming from a town player or a scum player, I am reading what they have written and refuting it based upon what I know of myself. When I have time to go back and read on people, that's when I establish what I think a player's alignment is.

I suppose I have nothing really new to say -- I still maintain that fuzzy is EASILY the scummiest player because of what I've said before, poor answers to my questions, and the stuff you guys have been pointing out.

The only comment I have to say covers like the discussion going back like the last 10-20 posts -- speculating links is irrelevant if we don't know what someone flips. A lot of D1 posts can be wasted depending on which way the flip goes, no matter how confident we might be that someone's scum.

This just reiterates what I said earlier. You seem so confident that I am scum, yet you fall back on a lot of posts can be wasted depending on the flip. You just appear to be wishy-washy on the lynch. You also don't seem to react well to a vote. I have been pretty clear in why I am voting for you, and as far as I remember, I am the only person voting for you. And you have nothing new to say on anything that has happened since your last post? How do you feel about what's happened outside of what I have said, cause there are things going on in this game and you are very clearly tunneling.

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Santos: Look at the context in which that statement was made. The question was regarding deadline day lynch rules. I wasn't saying that I prefer to have a no-lynch on a specific day. I was saying that when it comes to deadline, I prefer the rule be that a lynch only occurs if there is a full majority, rather than just a simple majority, that in no way is advocating a no lynch for this day. A simple majority could just be a bandwagon that a couple people stayed on and never left which wouldn't really help the town much, in my opinion.

FoS: Santos

for misrepping my statement and using it as a reason to vote.

Python: I don't think you really understand what I have against you, it isn't the fact that you are suspicious of me, in fact, I really couldn't care less if you are suspicious of me or not, aside from the fact that I am town, but anyway, my problem is with the way you went about it. You made an elaborate post about how I am "definitely scum" and then voted for me, which is fine. But then, in your next post you said, "alright everyone, be careful, he is at L-1." So you play is an inherent contradiction at the time. You think I am scum, that's fine, because you had good reasoning at the time, and you voted for me, which is fine too, that's what you are supposed to do to someone you believe to be scum, but you then tell everyone he is at L-1 and we shouldn't lynch him right now, which makes no sense based on the way you sounded in your previous post, and that is where you seem noncommittal. If you are sure that you have found scum, it shouldn't matter how long the day has been going on for, you should want the lynch, but if you want the day to go on longer, then don't make a vote that puts a person at L-1.

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How have I been "observing the game" and making statements that don't pertain to scumhunting? Have you missed the whole beginning part of the game where I was the subject of everyone's questions? In order to "put more pressure" on me, you thought it was ok to misrep something I had said and vote for me?

Unvote, Vote: Santos

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Then why make a vote that could put someone at L-1? L-1 is only something that should happen when you are ready for that person to be lynched.

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Yes, I would not put someone at L-1 unless I was completely comfortable with that person being the lynch at that moment in time.

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But I didn't say everyone, I said me, if I am comfortable with the lynch at that moment in time, then I will put a player at L-1 if that is the case.

If your opinion is changing for the better then why is your vote still on me? I don't know where your focus is so I can't tell you how you are losing your focus.

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Currently, I would like to hear more from Santos before we decide on who to lynch, because for me its between him and Python and Python should be back from his V/LA now and would like to hear what he has to say after the weekend.

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Mipe: Your defense of Python is noted. He is no longer V/LA he said he would be V/LA until the 11th, today is the 15th. I think it is time we heard from him.

Santos: Hopefully you will actually be able to join this game now, and get more involved. I would like a full summary of all the players to this point.

Ray Frost: I am going to apologize now if I call you she b/c your avatar is of a female and I look at avatar more than the actual male/female sign. I would also like it if you were able to post something by the end of the weekend because your replacee was very much a lurker and barely posted all game.

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Well, now that Santos has posted something with some content, I will

Unvote

. His opinion of Azelf makes me wonder why he doesn't want to vote him? On the brink of scumhunting...that's normally a scum tactic to make it look like they are doing something. I don't like how Santos set up lynches for today and tomorrow, that is a huge scum tactic to try and get the town to mislynch people.

HoS: Santos

I still want Python to be replaced or come back and post something, to me he is the scummiest player here for reasons already mentioned. So because Santos has come back

Vote: Python

I feel that the people who are voting for me now are going to vote for me no matter what I say at this point. If I am in fact today's lynch, I would look at those who were on my wagon, there is at least one scum on it.

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@Fuzzy: Why are you going the same way Staple is with the accusations against Santos for not having a vote on me? As neither of you seem to realize, it's time for lynch votes, not pressure votes.

Because at the time he is voting for Staple, which isn't a "lynch" vote because he is the only person voting for him.

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The lynch does appear to be between me and Python, as I don't believe, with the activity currently in the thread, that another bandwagon will be able to be started. I have already shared my feelings on Python, and I feel that he is the best lynch for the day. I have also not been posting much because I have been busy with school and my gf and soccer, plus there hasn't really been all that much that I have needed to comment on to progress this day.

We have a couple days before deadline, so I would like everyone to go back and provide reasons for which of Python and myself they want to lynch.

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I am a Vanilla Townie

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My vote is currently on Python. Just thought I would clarify that.

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I apologize for the crappiness of my play, it sucked and I couldn't recover from it in time to convince the town of my innocence. Good job in pulling it out without me though