Newbie 834 (Game Over!)

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/confirm

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That was quick. Are we started yet?

vote: CSL

He always gets hung on day one anyway...

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1) None
2) Can't answer (see above)

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Visual representation of your name can make it easier to re-read a conversation quickly.

I second this. Plus it's nice to know where you are from.

@Americans: we don't know your states etc, would it hurt to add USA to the end?

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@playplay: glad you like the picture. How did you know it was from xbox?

@ef87: thanks for adding a pic. Mind you, the 2girls1cup ref is gross (just a comment, not a criticism).

@Darkstrike: Asking questions without providing answers is a bit smelly.

@Oman: how can you tell anything at this stage.

So my vote stays with CSL even though Jack is equally suspicious for lurking.

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Lurking vs Not Here

Thanks for that. It made me think a bit.

If someone really isn't there then they wouldn't respond to a prod. So Jack is either not playing or is mafia.

Two players did respond. At least Darkstrike provided some info. CSL's post was just pointless.

So my vote stays with CSL. It started off as a joke, but now I'm suspicious.

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More thoughts:

Hopefully JackTheLurker will be replaced so we can play properly.

Motbob is a bit suspicious.

I won't bang on about CSL, but my vote stands.

Oman hasn't posted with his player hat on. In fact he's said that he won't share his opinions. I can't see how this is helpful to the town...

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@CSL: another rubbish post. Why do you suspect 2play, he seems pretty clean to me...

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@Oman: I can see how an IC could railroad the game, but you haven't given a clue. What do you actually think?

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@Oman: I can see how an IC could railroad the game, but you haven't given a clue. What do you actually think?

What? Tell us what you think, first.

What? I've posted plenty of times with reasons to back up suspicions. I even answered Oman's question before he asked it. In fact the only time I didn't explain myself is when I said YOU were suspicious.

In conclusion, either you are not paying attention or you're a very touchy mafioso.

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@Oman: I don't care who you think is town, I want to know who you suspect of being scum. I fear that playplay is now a dead man walking, and you had a part in that.

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Yes, GreenDude, that's exactly what I meant. Good point about the doctor though.

As to your theory that Oman is protecting playplay: that would imply that playplay is a very subtle and devious player. I don't buy that.

On the other hand, I would expect Oman to be sly. That's why I don't like his attempt to get everyone to declare playplay as town. He's probably asleep down under so I'll leave it at that.

Can someone please jump on the CSL bandwagon. I want to crank up the pressure a bit.

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Well I don't know how to do multiple quotes in the same post, so here's lots of little ones...

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If you were scum would you kill me? :)

Yes, sooner rather than later. See Darkstrike's explanation.

Oman says it can be good or bad, without any clarification (which is odd...)

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Why do I feel like I'm going to be screwed Day 1, like I always am?

That's why I joke voted for you in the first place. I partially read a few games before I got in this one. Coincidentally you were wrongly lynched in both your first games. Got to be worth a giggle to suggest the same happen this time.

However, since then I have some proper reasons.

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Unvote

CSL is on 3? Hmm not where I want to have someone on page four. Just know that it can go back on if there is not more content.

Wuss.

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Ox1de, I'm pressured enough. I'm in 3 games right now, so don't do stuff like that.

Any questions?

Well if you are a townie, you're not exactly 'playing' this one. On the other hand, if you are scum, then you are lying low.

Ball's still in your court, as it has been for a while.

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tracker, that's going to get some people ticked off.

For tracker sub CSL

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More thoughts:
Hopefully JackTheLurker will be replaced so we can play properly.

Welcome DarklightA. Take some time to read all this stuff and wade in with your opinion.

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Sorry about the ludicrous number of posts, lubricated with shiraz and stella, but:

Right now im feeling a bit of a gut against Ox1de. I intend to read him in iso.

Honestly, what has CSL done:

• 1) Fingered playplay, just as his halo was glowing
  2) Jumped in to protect motbob

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Whilst I'm having a rant...

@Oman: I can see how an IC could railroad the game, but you haven't given a clue. What do you actually think?

What? Tell us what you think, first.

What? I've posted plenty of times with reasons to back up suspicions. I even answered Oman's question before he asked it. In fact the only time I didn't explain myself is when I said YOU were suspicious.

In conclusion, either you are not paying attention or you're a very touchy mafioso.

You haven't responded to this at all. Are you a rhino-skinned townie or a rumbled scum?

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3) Now wondering what the hell to do now.

The options are obvious, but I will shut up because this is looking like a vendetta. Over to you folks, I'm going to bed.

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Oh dear. After re-reading the thread I've just realised that at least

two

people are suspicious of me (I've just looked up what IGMEOY means), and all down to a simple mistake. Basically my post 65 crossed over with Oman's 62 - I should have refreshed the old page I had open in the browser before replying. Then I compounded the mistake by not admitting to it, and even further by not realising the implications.

So, Oman, I'm sorry for forcing your hand and messing up your play. As you say, it's stupid to make someone declare and then accuse them of railroading.

Plus I owe a big apology to motbob for hassling you

twice

about a perfectly reasonable post. I wholeheartedly and unreservedly withdraw my earlier accusations.

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Can someone please jump on the CSL bandwagon. I want to crank up the pressure a bit.

That was just after a skim, Motbob. This quote struck me though. He requests a band wagon!!

Unvote: Motbob
Vote: Ox1de

What's wrong with trying to crank the pressure up on someone playing like a scumbag? Welcome to the game, by the way, it's nice to see you are an active player even if your current vote is misguided.

There's not much to go on, so I'm going to put in a pseudo-random vote. His username is unpronounceable and he hasn't contributed much, so for both these feeble resons:

Unvote: CSL
Vote: ef87

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I'm not a fan of random voting. Instead, I'm more a fan of Thesp's "ask questions" routine.

So. I'd like to ask everyone the following questions!

1) How many games of mafia have you played?
2) Do you enjoy town or scum roles more?

@DarkLight and looker: can you answer these 'getting to know you' questions.

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@0x1de: what made you change your mind about CSL enough to unvote him? seems suspicious you get questioned for your tried band wagoning against CSL then just drop it with no explanation why.

FoS: 0x1de

along with a couple of others...

Thanks for that. By my count I have one vote and three fingers. I note that you didn't have the balls to vote to lynch me - not even in retaliation for my vote against you. But then scum wouldn't want to be in too early on hanging a townie.

My original vote for CSL was a joke, but then he started playing like a scumbag. It turns out he wasn't really playing at all and has been replaced by looker. I'm not going to hang looker for CSL's crimes.

@DarkLight: it's still day one and my prime suspect got replaced. Anyway it wasn't completely random.

@Oman: when you say you play to win, do you mean your team or do you want to be a survivor?

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@motbob: of course, if it makes sense. CSL casts a long shadow over Looker, but not enough to kill him now. The reason I suspected CSL was his infrequent terse posts, with no explanation or thought. That looked scummy, but is equally well explained by the fact that he didn't have time to play properly. Until Looker has a chance to contribute, he's off the leash as far as I'm concerned.

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So there's three things I've done that look suspicious to some folk. I'll address them one by one, so in chronological order:

• 1. Requesting a bandwagon
  2. Backtracking
  3. Pseudo-random vote

1. Requesting a bandwagon

I did this because I was frustrated that CSL didn't respond to my harassment with any posts of substance. Plus I was sure he was scum.
But was that scummy? DarkLight thinks so, DarkStrike thinks it's "not a huge scum tell", and motbob says it isn't scummy.
What does everyone else think?

2. Backtracking

My case against CSL fell apart. By his play, he was either scum or not playing properly. The fact that he asked to be replaced indicates the latter. Of course that doesn't make him definitely town, but I agree with GreenDude that if he was anything other than vanilla townie then he would have put some more effort into it. So I let him off the hook until his replacement has a chance to say something.
Was dropping my vote a scummy thing to do? I think not, the opposite is true. If I had continued to stick with CSL/Looker is spite of the lack of evidence, then that would be scummy.
I note that ef87 still has a vote against CSL/Looker and that DarkStrike is upset that I changed my vote. If I was scum, I'd be disappointed if a chance of a mis-lynch disappeared in a puff of smoke.

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3. Pseudo-random vote

So with two replacements needing time to catch up, I decided to go fishing (and I think I got a nibble). I had a few suspicions, but nothing much to go on - certainly nothing that stands up to scrutiny.
So why is it scummy to poke the quiet ones in an effort to get more info? If I was scum, surely I'd just keep quiet and hope nobody notices me.

@playplay: you may not have anything to add, but you can be more active. Ask questions, make wild accusations, pick fights, whatever, but do something.

@Looker: You need to up your play. For starters, why don't you comment on your predecessors posts?

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@Oman: You're play style is creeping me out. How about telling us who you think the two most scummy players are.

@DarkLight: Threatening and actually doing it are quite different.

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Has anyone else noticed this pattern:

• ef87 votes motbob
  DarkStrike suspects motbob
  ef87 votes CSL
  DarkStrike suspects CSL
  DarkStrike suspects 0x1de
  ef87 suspects 0x1de
  DarkStrike votes 0x1de

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Lots of stuff to digest, but here's a few quick things.

@playplay: Your vote count was wrong, ef87 is voting for CSL/Looker

@Oman: My post was completely factual, I don't understand your question.

@ef87: Where are you scumbag?

@Looker: Same. Where are you scumbag?

@Garnasha: Welcome to the game, I look forward to your sparring with Oman. Also do you want to answer DarkLight's questions, which were something like:

• How many games have you played?
  Do you prefer to play as scum or town?

@DarkLight: You are flapping about like a fish out of water. No one could compare you to a terrier, unless referring to an excitable puppy seeing snow for the first time.

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I meant DarkStrike's questions, not DarkLight's.

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Not at all, I was just correcting a mistake.

Now we are mainly a euro crowd, we may see more cross-posting

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@Garnasha: since you are here, can we hear your opinion of the CSL/Looker affair?

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We are going to have to start quoting, this is getting too confusing...

ARGH where did the lovely "show: <player name>/all" dropdown menu go? :'(

As I understand it, the configuration has been changed so that only mafia can view other players' posts in isolation

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What's the point in setting it like THAT?

I'll tell you tomorrow. Too late now, I'm off to bed.

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@mod:
ef87 last posted on Tuesday in 115
DarkStrike last posted on Wednesday in 124
Are they going to be replaced?

We've had four replacements already, so it's looking like a joke now.

Why should we bother anymore?

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@GreenDude: stop claiming for what I spotted. I'm not stating an opinion until ef87 and DarkSrike say something.

@Garnasha: I have long suspected Oman (see several caustic comments), but I have absolutely nothing to go on. You keep up the pressure though.

What p***es me off is that fact that my main suspect has disappeared. Again.

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@ox1de: I didn't really claim I found it. I found another little part. And I kind of took charge of the investigation becuase you weren't here. But I did say you found it.

I was here, but I will keep my comments to myself until DarkStrike and/or ef87 respond.

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well thank you Garnasha, but who are you? why are you in this game? who did you replace? how long was I out?

low activity: guilty as charged
buddying with ef: who is ef? and i don't remember buddying to anyone!

you strike me as scum Garnasha. you suck. omg

You need to respond to post 131. Also 132 etc. You are looking very scummy...

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@Garnasha: I have long suspected Oman (see several caustic comments), but I have absolutely nothing to go on. You keep up the pressure though.

To anyone who suspects this, its true. Remember Ox1de has been looking at me since way back for my throwaway comments but doesn't have a problem with my major articles as far as I know.

Just because I haven't commented doesn't mean anything...

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Has anyone else noticed this pattern:

• ef87 votes motbob
  DarkStrike suspects motbob
  ef87 votes CSL
  DarkStrike suspects CSL
  DarkStrike suspects 0x1de
  ef87 suspects 0x1de
  DarkStrike votes 0x1de

No, what twigged you to that?

But what do you think?

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@Looker: I thought I'd asked this already, but maybe not. What do you think of CSL's posts?

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@Darkstrike: your last post was all true. Please respond to Oman's original claims and also give us a considered response to the odd voting pattern. Thanks.

In case the other newbies don't get it: DON'T VOTE FOR DARKSTRIKE (yet)

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Ox1de's Post 244 - Nothing. Of Greendude, DarkLight, Garnasha, & Oman, which, if any, would you believe to be scum?

Looker, you do realise that several of us suspect you as scum? It's nice to see you are asking pertinent questions, but you do have to tell us what you think. A direct question deserves an answer, and I trust you will do the same, so:
@Looker:Of Greendude, DarkLight, Garnasha, & Oman, which, if any, would you believe to be scum?

In alphabetical order:

DarkLight

His scattergun approach is annoying and makes his vote less effective. However, I cannot call him scum.

Garnasha

I'm disappointed in the way that he rolled over for Oman, but again I can't call scum.

GreenDude

Someone else who has annoyed me (a tiny bit). Just call me grumpy. Nothing to call scummy.

Oman

Of this lot, Oman is the most likely scum. I can't explain it right now, but it stands.

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Abridged version:

Darkstrike's post doesn't help AT ALL.

As scum he knows that claiming cop or doc is really tough since it can make you look scummy.

At your own peril??
I think he's trying to scare us into not lynching him. I think a townie would offer an explanation instead of saying lynch me if you dare.

And he says he has a scum read on 3 people. There's ONLY 2 SCUM!!!

Discuss??
That is really helpful. He pops-up and says, "I'm vanilla townie, if you lynch me you will die, there is 3 scum, discuss."

My theory is that ef87 is NOT scum. And that's all the really matters.

@ox1de: Ok sure. I just thought it would be convenient for people not to run around the game looking for the quotes.
Also, I'm really interested how you found the "buddying", could you be scum trying to plant evidence but let someone else dig it up so when ds is town everyone will look at me??

First bit is pointless - a townie would do the same.

My theory is that ef87 IS scum, so go figure.

I really appreciate the work you did in coming up with the quotes to justify my original post. How you can accuse me of planting evidence when I just quoted the facts is farcical.

Now, how did I find out? Just like you I went through the thread keeping notes. My suspicions were aroused by the way ef87 and DarkStrike voted on me.

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post 131:

@Oman: You're play style is creeping me out. How about telling us who you think the two most scummy players are.

You're growing up my list, probably closer to number #3 or something. Your call for bandwagon isn't really that scummy, its the way you went back on almost everything you said, and started to get really twitchy about it. You're worried that people find you scummy.

I really don't like the way you backed off motbob, however, it does make me think you're a little bit town (because you're not sure of yourself). But then you get called on the CSL wagon, and you jump straight off?

I'm thinking CSL/Looker is probably in my top two at the moment, but there is no way I want a lynch yet due to the fact that if he is scum we don't have enough information on a partner. Also, CSL's replacement, that could certainly change my mind.

Darkstrike is probably my other suspect right now. His post voting Ox1de definatly put him up to number one. Its mostly patently false, and throws suspicion on Ox1de that isn't warranted.

Time to post my results of Ox1de’s iso read. He starts off so standard, with the random vote on CSL. However he then has this post:

@playplay: glad you like the picture. How did you know it was from xbox?

@ef87: thanks for adding a pic. Mind you, the 2girls1cup ref is gross (just a comment, not a criticism).

@Darkstrike: Asking questions without providing answers is a bit smelly.

@Oman: how can you tell anything at this stage.

So my vote stays with CSL even though Jack is equally suspicious for lurking.

Here he seems to infer that his vote on CSL is serious, and is at this stage as suspicious as Jack. I’m not sure what to do with this, its just interesting.

Yes, he uses the comparitive "as supicious as Jack" doesn't really run with it though, just a small though.

Ox1de seems to tunnel CSL a fair bit, for his lack of substantial posting, something I don’t disagree with.

False. Ox1de has been one of the most rounded players in this game. He has asked questions of everyone, put votes on more people than anyone else, and been probing every cranny. This is a flat out lie.

Anyway Ox1de's main source of scumminess comes from the urge to build up a bandwagon. I really don't like people encouraging a bandwagon, as only scum have a motivation to do it. Its not pro town to hurry up the lynch of another player.

Again false. Town has plenty of reason to build bandwagons. Bandwagons add pressure, and pressure catches scum. Thats the main one. There is also the fact that...you know...we want to catch the scum and kill them.

Up till here I was very much thinking a neutral read, and in fact was starting to suspect CSL a lot more due to the tunnelling Ox1de did against him. However this post confuses me.

Wait what? The problem was that he was tunneling, and that was a scumtell, but then you started suspecting his suspect for....what reason?

Ox1de suddenly drops the CSL vote he has been clinging to, mainly due to the fact that everyone is picking up on the bandwagoning post. This is scummy, as it seems to be a u-turn to pick up town points. A townie would probably stick to his guns. Also, a pseudo-random vote isn’t really good at this stage of the proceedings.

The only really logical thing to come out of this post.



All in all, pretty bad. And probably warranting a first vote.

Unvote Vote Darkstrike_11

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Still don't understand why I had to reply to that.

Because Oman was the first one to vote you.

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After an iso-read I realize what I didn't before.

unvote
vote: darkstrike11

You've voted for loads of folk now, but we need reasons.

Why are you voting for DarkStrike?

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Well, that was quick - about 6 minutes of twilight too.

@Oman: hope you are ok.

@hiphop: welcome to the game. Please answer the original intro questions:

I'm not a fan of random voting. Instead, I'm more a fan of Thesp's "ask questions" routine.

So. I'd like to ask everyone the following questions!

1) How many games of mafia have you played?
2) Do you enjoy town or scum roles more?

Right, I have lots to say, but it's all based on yesterday and last night. I will catch up with "today's" posts after...

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Looker, you appear real scummy to me for the following reasons:

• 1. You hammered Darkstrike too soon. We lost valuable information because of that.
  2. You won't even answer direct questions. Are you scared you will give yourself away?
  3. You never give any explanations or reasoning.
  4. You haven't done anything that might even vaguely be called pro-town.
  5. Several of us were suspicious of CSL and you seem to be carrying on the tradition. In my opinion, CSL only dropped out of suspicion because if he was anything other than vanilla town, then CSL would have made more of an effort. However, given playplay's desertion as cop and your continued scumminess, I have to suspect otherwise.

vote: Looker

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Now to Oman. Oman, Oman, Oman, the thorn in my side (or vice versa). So I've hinted a lot that I don't trust him, but why? Here we go, not much to go on, but whatever...

Let's start with Oman's post about Darkstrike (post 131). I don't have a problem with the content - all valid reasoning - but it's the tone that's wrong. Instead of saying 'I disagree' he uses words like 'lies' and 'false'. Looks like he's using emotion to help make the point when his arguments are weak. Seems a bit smelly to me and is inconsistent with his other posts.

Next, lets look at voting. With CSL/Looker, he voted then withdrew for some inane reason - basically to give CSL the benefit of the doubt. However, when it came to Darkstrike, there was no such consideration, he was left to die. Again pretty inconsistent and if CSL/Looker turns up scum, then there's a strong case against Oman as his partner.

Finally, there's the playplay affair. I don't have a problem with Oman calling playplay town (after all it was my cross post that forced it). What I don't like is that we had a player who was obviously town and Oman asked everyone to call him on it. We're here to find scum, not townies.

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@hiphop: I just reread the thread. Sorry for asking the same question....

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Darklight, you aren't really helping. This is supposed to be a newbie game, so don't just shout "scumtell", explain what you mean. You've been quite random and haven't helped the town much.

Can you do me a favour and go through all your votes and come up with an explanation for each of them?

Thanks.

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@hiphop: I was trying to put some pressure on ef87, but he disappeared. Can you answer a question, though: out of all of us, who is the most likely to survive to the last day, and why?

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u

nvote: Looker

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Though I believe Looker to be scum, I'm not happy with him having three votes already. Just one more and he's dead before we've really had a chance to chat. Besides, Darklight is so random, he might kill Looker without any thought.

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1. They were lies, they were fundamentally wrong theory points. He was stating fact, not making opinion.

Bullshit

2. I did give CSL the benefit of the doubt. Then I was in hospital and not playing for the part of the Darkstrike wagon that can be called a wagon. I was intending to vote looker once enough had checked it, looks like they have.

Fair enough.

3. Finding townies is almost more useful than finding scum in those early days. I'll explain that later when I'm not late for work. I wanted to see who was going to call him scum to see where people were reading.

I'd be intersted to hear this. I know a deffo townie, but I see no reason to tell anyone else.

4. That bit about "if CSL/Looker is scum Oman is his partner" looks like you know that Looker could turn up scum, and are trying to set up the neccesary mislynch after it. That said, I haven't had a lot to go on with you lately...I want to standby.

Doesn't apply now you've voted for Looker (unless you are sacrificing your partner)

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And that's Looker

ess

, ya'betta

ask

sumbody.

If someone had asked, would you even have noticed the question? ;-)

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1. They were lies, they were fundamentally wrong theory points. He was stating fact, not making opinion.

Bullshit

Now you're doing it too. Don't be hypocritical. Is that a lie and a falsehood, or are we differing on opinion. Quit appealing to emotion.

Touche. My original argument disappears in a puff of hypocrisy.

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I've been really enjoying this game. I've learned a lot, or at least changed some of my preconceptions. As such I am going to try and change my style a bit and chill out some - it's just a game after all.

There are some folk I've badmouthed, but I've changed my opinion: I've got nothing on Garnasha, GreenDude, or Oman. It doesn't mean they are town, just that I have nothing to say they are scum.

@Looker: I am flattered, but you (and CSL) are the scummiest here. Now that Garnasha has had a chance to say something I am happy to put my vote back on you.

vote:Looker

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@Looker: I am flattered, but you (and CSL) are the scummiest here. Now that Garnasha has had a chance to say something I am happy to put my vote back on you.

vote:Looker

Why? Why? Why? There is plenty of time to put your vote on him later. Do you want another early lynch? You complain about looker casting the hammer so soon on day one, but it really isn’t lookers fault, but the people who put darkstrike in that situation in the first place(@L-1). People like Greendude and Oman. If you don’t want an early lynch, why put him at L-1?

Two things:
1. I was the first person to vote on CSL/Looker (yesterday). I did actually back off for a bit to allow peeps to pitch in, but nothing's changed. I'd surely be the last person to have any doubts.

2. Several people voted for DarkStrike, giving considered reasoning. Looker came in and hammered DarkStrike even though we were waiting from info from him, and did so without a decent reason. If you think the former are more suspicious that the latter, then you are a bit mixed up.

All in all, your argument is so weak as to actually throw suspicion upon yourself. It's interesting to note that the only other person I voted for is ef87/hiphop...

@GreenDude: you do know that you are the only one who has said that ef87/hiphop is town?

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2. Several people voted for DarkStrike, giving considered reasoning. Looker came in and hammered DarkStrike even though we were waiting from info from him, and did so without a decent reason. If you think the former aremore suspicious that the latter, then you are a bit mixed up.

Again I ask you is the night more important than the day? What made you first suspect Looker? Let me guess, because there was something in his posts that did not fit with being a townie. When does he post? In the day. Would you have found this information at night? No. If Looker flips town, would it not be better to have as much day light as possible? What is the difference with him being lynched now, or closer toward the deadline? Could people be surer that the person is scum? Of course. So why put Looker at L-1 so soon?

You appear to be very selective about how you apply your arguments. Apparently Looker was fine to do the same thing (but worse), and you haven't said anything about the others voting for Looker.

Also you keep mentioning that this is a newbie game, yet you don't make any concessions for us: Joat, RB, L-1, VI, etc.

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You appear to be very selective about how you apply your arguments. Apparently Looker was fine to do the same thing (but worse), and you haven't said anything about the others voting for Looker.

Selective? Oman doesn’t answer questions. He put looker at L-1 originally. And greendude has a right to leave has vote on, because he cast the first vote on Looker. You on the other hand answer questions. You criticize Looker because he ended the day, without you getting all the information that you wanted. Just because looker did it, does that make it ok for you to do it too.

An excellent example of Woolly Thinking, which is a bit like Fuzzy Logic but less so.

Apart from the fact that Oman

does

answer questions, what are you getting at?

GreenDude has some special rights for being the first to vote for Looker? Why does my vote the day before count for nothing?

Oh my god, I actually answer questions...what does that mean?

DarkStrike offered to provide some info that might benefit the town, but Looker destroyed that chance by hammering him for no reason. How is that the same as me restoring my vote (with sound explanations), but without killing her?

I don't think I will bother arguing with you any further...

[0x1de]

Not again...

@mod: DarkLight hasn't posted since Wednesday 16th, in 275

[0x1de]

Goodbye Looker. In the unlikely event that you are town, can you say why I should die, for the sake of the town.

[0x1de]

Well, Oman, I'm disappointed in you for that weak attack. So much so, that I have to question your motivation.

You must have known that you were unlikely to be killed last night, so why the hurried post? I can't see any pro-town reason.

On the other hand, if you are scum then it makes sense: it was to get a feeling of the other players' view of me. After Looker told her partner to kill me, you were checking to see if there was any chance of getting me lynched.

First and formost is the way Ox1de jumped on my attacks on darklight once we'd found he was town, and then was entirely hypocritical about it:

1. They were lies, they were fundamentally wrong theory points. He was stating fact, not making opinion.

Bullshit

Now you're doing it too. Don't be hypocritical. Is that a lie and a falsehood, or are we differing on opinion. Quit appealing to emotion.

Touche. My original argument disappears in a puff of hypocrisy.

This looks to me like Ox1de just wants to look like he is the defender of the town.

So what's more likely:

• I made a mistake and admitted it. (no indication of alignment)
  I deliberately said that so I could retract it later for town points. (scummy)

Bear in mind that this is my first game of anything like mafia.

I've been really enjoying this game.

I don't want to put much weight on this, but Ox1de has not been under heavy suspicion for most of the game. And I don't know about you guys, but that makes it fun when I'm scum Minor point here.

Very minor point and says more about you than it does about me.

Two things:
1. I was the first person to vote on CSL/Looker (yesterday). I did actually back off for a bit to allow peeps to pitch in, but nothing's changed.

I see this completely differently. Ox1de voted looker, his scumbuddy, to distance himself. However, he had a change of heart when the wagon built, lifted the vote when it hit 3.

Strong words. Based on the assumption that I am Looker's partner, you conclude that I'm scum. Magic roundabout.

No, not DarkLight, it's Ox1de that's the scum. It's Ox1de that needs to die.

If looker comes up scum, Ox1de is scummy as hell. Looker seems just dumb enough to point this finger at his scum buddy, but has enough grasp on mafia theory to try to distance.

There is more, this was just the stuff I remembered from the last 3 pages.

More nonsense. If I'm Looker's partner and she's stupid, then I'm scum. Come on. What's wrong with the obvious reason that she was telling her buddy who to night kill?

All in all, I've still got my eye on you. You're not the most scummy survivor, but I don't trust you.

[0x1de]

Oman, I am enjoying sparring with you, but I think we should re-focus on the job in hand. DarkLight and hiphop are both scummy - we need to decide which one to hang.

Feel free to elaborate on your points against me and bring up other stuff - I will respond and defend myself.

Meanwhile:

vote: DarkLight

[0x1de]

No explanation needed.

vote 0x1de

What? Of course you need to justify your vote. Taking a look back at your recent posts, there's almost nothing about me. Why, why, why?

(and I know I voted for DarkLight without explanation, but at least I've previously said why I suspect him)

[0x1de]

No explanation needed.

vote 0x1de

What? Of course you need to justify your vote. Taking a look back at your recent posts, there's almost nothing about me. Why, why, why?

I believe that Looker said you were scum, and there is nothing besides an innocent on you that will make me believe otherwise.

(and I know I voted for DarkLight without explanation, but at least I've previously said why I suspect him)

No, you left your vote on him, after I told you you shouldn't be setting up the quick hammer(which it did).

hiphop, i think you are mixing things up a bit.

Looker is confirmed mafia. Why believe her?

I've never voted for DarkLight before. You are thinking of the votes for Looker.

Go re-read the thread...

[0x1de]

Come on mate, either come up with a reason for voting me or retract it.

What do you think of DarkLight?

[0x1de]

And that's Looker

ess

, ya'betta

ask

sumbody.

If someone had asked, would you even have noticed the question?

Lol. You know what...

unvote; vote garnasha

You're funny, ox1de

Good-bye to you, too, Ox1de, it's been a pleasure.

LookerScum=Ox1deScum

See how putting the quote back into context makes the accusation look rubbish...

[0x1de]

No, not DarkLight, it's Ox1de that's the scum. It's Ox1de that needs to die.

So this is part of that context?

Nope. That's 'dying scum telling partner who to kill'.

Quick (rhetorical) question: I'm guessing there

is

no honor amongst scum, huh?

In the same post. Makes me believe it was someone who was voting for Looker.

I missed that, but I have to agree with you there. +1 karma to hiphop.

[0x1de]

So DarkLight and I are at L-1 (see, I'm picking up the lingo). It all comes down to what GreenDude thinks .

Based on current opinion etc, I think this game is over. The winning team depends on who the scum actually is. If it's me or DarkLight, then town wins. If it's Oman or hiphop, then scum wins. Perhaps I'd better explain that:

This is based on three assumptions:

• GreenDude is town
  He will agree to hammer me or DarkLight
  He will be killed in the night because he's least likely to be lynched

If either me or DarkLight are scum then:

• One of us will be lynched today. If the victim flips scum then it's game over, otherwise:
  GreenDude gets killed in the night
  The survivor, out of me and DarkLight, gets lynched and flips scum. Town wins.

If Oman or hiphop are scum:

• DarkLight or I gets lynched and flips town
  GreenDude gets killed
  DarkLight or I get lynched and flip town
  The scum kills the surviving townie and wins

[0x1de]

@GreenDude: I don't know anything. It's just a theory. Oh and please don't make us wait three weeks - I'm impatient.

@DarkLight: It's easy. We had a discussion about playplay (obv townie) on the first day.

[0x1de]

Right, that blows my theory apart. More work is needed.

GreenDude, we're going to have to work together. This is a crucial lynch. Your post was a bit confusing though, you put Oman as second most likely then said he's 50/50. Which is it?

I find Oman impossible to read. He's a good bloke, helpful IC, and obviously a good player. Yet I cannot tell if he is town or scum. So I have to make a call here, and I choose to believe Oman is town. Do you want to join GreenDude and me?

DarkLight and hiphop are both scummy. hiphop less so because he has made some pro-town comments. I'm going to have to go through the thread again to pick out evidence.

[0x1de]

Yes it was.

[0x1de]

The righteous lynch mob

[0x1de]

<a long and well-reasoned post>

Welcome to the game.

Don't think that unvoting me earns you any town points, quite the opposite in fact. I know that I'm opening myself to further claims of hypocrisy, but this is different. I'm not going to be lynched today - neither Oman nor GreenDude will hammer me. On the other hand I was scared that 'Mr Random' DarkLight would hammer Looker early.

@hiphop: I give you credit for not voting Looker, given her 'honor' statement. But then again, you didn't vote for a scumbag. Swings and roundabouts. The fact that it was in the same post as an accusation against me doesn't count for anything.

Cult, meh. Oman won't join in so it's pointless. Imagine a gang of two, or even one!

@Oman: Yesterday you thought you might be killed in the night, but today you're sure that you'll be here tomorrow? Just teasing...

[0x1de]

@Oman: Can you dust off your IC hat and tell me how to view a person in isolation?

Talking of which:

We are going to have to start quoting, this is getting too confusing...

ARGH where did the lovely "show: <player name>/all" dropdown menu go? :'(

As I understand it, the configuration has been changed so that only mafia can view other players' posts in isolation

@all: Why didn't any of you comment on this?

[0x1de]

How to view in iso, or why you didn't comment?

Come on mate, just 'cos I think you're scum doesn't mean I don't value your input.

[0x1de]

I'm starting to think of a looker-hiphop relationship now. It would make sense, seeing as he was the only one of us sitting out on the lynch of looker, but I'm not sure.

Think about it. Wouldn't there be townie points for anyone who was on the bw of someone who was scum? Looker was going to be lynched. That was evident. Oxide could have seen this so he put Looker at L-1. And he has the nerve to post this.

On the other hand I was scared that 'Mr Random' DarkLight would hammer Looker early.

And yet you kept your vote on her, even though I told you, you shouldn’t put someone in that situation. It was easily seen that Oxide wanted a quick lynch once he placed his vote.

Yet I actually took my vote off for a while, until everyone had a chance to contribute. Again I have to point out that I was voting for CSL/Looker right from the random votes on day one. You never tried to tell the other two to pull their votes. Besides, why should we do what you say?

<a long and well-reasoned post>

Welcome to the game.

Is it well-reasoned, because he is unvoting you?

Now you're being silly. DarkLight's posts have all been along the line of: 'JoeBob smells. Vote: JoeBob'. Plus I already pointed out that DarkLight dropping his vote makes him look even more scummy.

The fact that it was in the same post as an accusation against me doesn't count for anything.

To you or to me? Because I know in this particular post it counts for me.

Whatever.

Cult, meh. Oman won't join in so it's pointless. Imagine a gang of two, or even one!

I posted my post before Oman declined. So you were trying to. You just failed that one. Either way a cult is still anti-town.

Yes I tried to, but failed. I've also been hypocritical and tried to encourage a bandwagon. All of these seemed right at the time, but turned out to be scummy things to do. Still, they say that 'if you don't fall off, you're not trying hard enough'.

@Oman: Yesterday you thought you might be killed in the night, but today you're sure that you'll be here tomorrow? Just teasing...

Oman you do know that if we don’t lynch scum today there will only be three people left. Unless Oxide, me and you are left, than convincing you that someone is scum, when one of us is dead is pointless.

I am convinced that oxide is scum, that I don’t even have a second.

As you say: if you, me, and Oman are the survivors tomorrow, then I'm dead. Which means scum wins. I haven't worked out what to do about that yet.

I can't believe you don't have a second. What is it that has convinced you that DarkLight is town? Or even Oman? Quotes please. Personally my suspect list has four names on it (well GreenDude

might

be too good to be true).

[0x1de]

Thanks hiphop.

[0x1de]

Is this concept so hard to grasp? Am I the only one that feels this is obvious? Can someone else chime in so I don't go insane on this.

It is obvious. hiphop has a habit of repeatedly making the same accusation(s) without paying any attention to the counter-arguments. I find this approach to be quite annoying.

[0x1de]

I'm going back on ox1de, due to him lately not contributing a lot, but still posting lots of small ones, showing activity (scummish), but an unwillingness to contribute.

Do you realize how much you just incriminated yourself? You think I'm scum because recently my posts look a bit like yours and CSL/Looker. The big difference is that ALL of yours and CSL/Looker are like that, plus the fact that you both chuck in random votes with no real explanation.

@all: If I am lynched, and flip town, who is then scum?

I've already answered this too - it's hiphop.

[0x1de]

// is drunk

Oy, you cheeky bar steward, don't I get my 15 mins of fame...

Unlikely, I know, but if DarkLight flips town, then it all comes down to the night kill. I can't be arsed right now to go through my thoughts, beside it might influence them.

Yay town, we've got it now...

[0x1de]

DarkLight
hiphop
Oman
GreenDude

I'd have to re-read hiphop because I need to make sure he's been scummy, rather than just having a play style that I don't like.

Oman is right in the middle. I really can't tell what his alignment is.

[0x1de]

SCUM
Ox1de
hiphop (sitting out on lynch)
oman
greendude
DarkLightA
TOWN

That's all I have to say in twilight.
You have lynched an innocent townie.
You are now in LYLO, unless there is a doctor with you.
Good luck. Go town!

I have a horrible feeling that Oman is the scumbag. I can't prove it though. Regardless, I am pretty sure that scum will win this game, but I won't go down without a fight.

[0x1de]

I have to say, I've changed my mind. Not because of your post.

hiphop is town

[0x1de]

I think I've been letting emotion cloud my judgment, though I still haven't re-read his posts yet. The clearest evidence is that statement by Looker about 'no honor'. hiphop didn't vote for Looker and one of the scum must have.

I think that Oman has brilliantly worked the game so that there are two clear suspects for lynching on the last day.

GreenDude is the most obvious kill: he's simply the least likely to get lynched. However, if he's alive tomorrow I'd suspect him too.

Bit hurried cose the sun's going down.

[0x1de]

Just remember think before you place your vote tomorrow.

And the same applies to you. Give it a while before you vote.

I like you Oxide, but I don't want the game to end with you being scum, and the town not voting someone who Looker pointed out to be her partner. I will have to think about it.

I know you think I'm scum, but I'm not (like that's going to make a difference

All I ask is that you open your mind a bit for the sake of the town. You say that townies will consider all possibilities but your refusal to even consider anyone but me is not good. Especially on the last day.

[0x1de]

@GreenDude: I get the feeling that you aren't sure what day it is. It is now twilight on day 3, tomorrow is D4

[0x1de]

@DarkLight: Since this balmy evening seems to be going on forever, can you give us some reasons for your suspect list?

@Oman: Who is more scummy, hiphop or me?

[0x1de]

@DarkLight: Since this balmy evening seems to be going on forever, can you give us some reasons for your suspect list?

SCUM
hiphop (sitting out on lynch)
greendude (his posts just seem very scummy to me)
oman (reasons posted earlier, when he was much higher on my scum list.)
Ox1de (I figured that it's a bit too obvious for looker to say that it was nice playing

with

you, or whatever it was, and that meaning that you're his partner)
DarkLightA
TOWN

You may have thought it but not wrote it. All I can find is:

Starting with Oman: Right now he's just pushing EVERYTHING onto other people.

I'd like to know more of your reasoning.

Likewise regarding GreenDude.

[0x1de]

You want to show me where I...why am i even arguing, either you're town, you're dead, and it doesn't matter. Or you're scum, we win, and it doesn't matter.

It does matter. We want to know what a townie thinks before he dies. You're being scummy again...

[0x1de]

Then again, you (Ox1de) has a real issue with interactions with our prior scum.

Please expand on this. I am sure I can knock it into a cocked hat...

[0x1de]

I'm rather worried about tomorrow, everyone right now is trying to make themselves seem townie.

I don't agree with this. No one is trying to make themselves appear better. Everyone has been defending themselves or attacking others. There's no obvious subplot...

[0x1de]

I pm'd the mod, he said he is coming.

Yet it is scummy to bring a day to a premature end...

[0x1de]

That's called 'sarcasm'

[0x1de]

In case I die tonight, just bear in mind that this is probably the most significant post in the whole game:

No, not DarkLight, it's Ox1de that's the scum. It's Ox1de that needs to die.

Quick (rhetorical) question: I'm guessing there

is

no honor amongst scum, huh?

[0x1de]

Its quite obvious Ox1de, I jump up his list after being part of his lynch, you drop down his list after not being part of it. He's got a terible case of the "Everyone who votes me is scum" or the "OMGUS!" mentality.

Um, I was part of his lynch though...

[0x1de]

@Oman: You are wrong. I think you are confusing me for hiphop and vice versa.

Official Vote Count:

DarkLightA(2): 0x1de, Oman

0x1de(2): hiphop, DarklightA

Not Voting(1): GreenDude

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Note: Please remember to BOLD your requests so that I don't miss them when skimming!

Deadline is October 7

[0x1de]

has hohum been nk'ed?

[0x1de]

Well it wouldn't be too hard to pull the wool over your eyes: you've missed out on several recent events. Not only did you mix up me and hiphop, but you missed the bit where I said hiphop was town.

[0x1de]

Nope, you are just not up to date. Lots of things happened in twighlight, and you missed them...

[0x1de]

Oman is

not

right. hiphop had just started to suspect Oman, there wasn't a clear vote on me.

@GreenDude: why did you change your mind about me?

@Oman: you've made lots of vague accusations about me, but haven't really followed up with proper explanations. Now it is a fresh day, so let's hear it.

[0x1de]

I disagree. He only placed one vote in the entire game and was certainly not all over the place (unlike CSL, Looker, and DarkLight). He started off by prodding everyone, but once he decided on me, he refused to consider anyone else. I managed to persuade him to remove the blinkers in twilight, when he made these posts:

Now you are making me have doubts about you. Oman's most recent post, and the posts about tomorrow shows he is setting up a lynch.

3. I said I thought playplay town, killing him would not confirm all my reads, as I even doubt myself in this game.

There is a slip up. Scum know who is town and who is scum, so killing him wouldn't make a difference, because if you are scum you would already know his alignment. So saying he is town and killing him only proves to us that you knew he was town.

So: no he didn't unvote me, but he couldn't because it was twilight. He never even said that he changed his mind. BUT he did show that he also suspected Oman and it's not as cut and dried as you say.

[0x1de]

That is one little suspicioun of mine, IF: ox1de is scum, then he obviously didn't kill me because i said I thought him town. BUT: Oman could have done that to place suspicioun on ox1de. The former being more likely.

Greendude, Regards me not killing you to throw suspicion you.

Is this a freudian slip? GreenDude says that not killing him puts suspicion on 0x1de, but you answer as if it puts suspicion on GreenDude. Which was probably what you were thinking when deciding who to kill.

[0x1de]

Ok, bollocks on the line. I am sure that Oman is the scumbag. So much so that:

Vote: Oman

GreenDude won't hammer, cos he's town (I hope).

[0x1de]

unvote: Oman

[0x1de]

So if GreenDude is scum, he's won. But I don't think so...

[0x1de]

It seemed a good idea at the time. Yes, I was drunk.

Really I wanted to make 100% sure of GreenDude. It was a risky gambit and I bottled out. I still think you're scum though.

(Posts 505 and 506 appear the other way round than I remember. Weird)

[0x1de]

It just doesn't makes sense for Omanscum to kill hiphop. Greendude had SAID he thought Ox1de was town, it would be SUCH A STUPID MOVE to kill hiphop instead. Hiphop at least had Ox1de pegged as scum, even if he was questioning everyone and making lots of accusations (my play also evidences that I didn't take him too seriously during the day yesterday, so to say I suddenly was afraid of him at night is silly.

Someone suspecting Ox1de already is a much better ally then someone I have to CONVINCE to help lynch Ox1de. It is such a bad play on my part to do that.

Reluctantly, I have to admit this is true. Perhaps I'd go even further and say that Oman's best kill would have been GreenDude, simply because everyone regarded him as town and so unlynchable.

You can apply the same logic to me as well. Why would I kill hiphop when I'd just got him to start suspecting Oman? Oman would have been a fair choice, just to remove a thorn in my side. But GreenDude would have been best. I know he was saying I was town, but he wasn't helping me lynch anyone. Plus there's the reason above.

Now lets look at GreenDude. hiphop was certainly his best choice, leaving two townies at each other's throats who both thought him as town. All he'd have to do is wait it out and hammer with the deciding vote.

@GreenDude: Your opinion of me has gone from probably town, through neutral, to probably scum, yet you've given no reasons. Why is that?

I'll finish off with something that's been niggling me. It's not a big deal by any means but worth mentioning. GreenDude has repeatedly said 'I don't know' or 'I'm confused' or whatever. I can't see why a townie would bother typing that out. On the other hand, scum might do it for town points.

[0x1de]

Well now it gets interesting.

@ox1de: I say whatever I would normally say. So if I'm confused, I'll say I'm confused, if I say I don't know, then I'll say I don't know. If you wanted to find out if I was scum or not you could have simply not have unvoted. Then I could have confirmed my townieness but you unvoted. But that's ok. It gives me something to think on.

I can't control what Oman does though. If he had left his vote on me, then you could have proved yourself.

I night kill seems very unusual.

eh?

I think that ox1de slipped up when he was drunk. And it slides into place. Hiphop was a threat to ox1de, so he was nked, while I was kept alive because I thought him town. Now when I say I'm ready to vote oman, he votes, and says he "knows" I'm town, (gee I wonder how), expecting me to hammer (maybe). But then why does he unvote?

Oman was a bigger threat than hiphop.

I never said I know you're town. Just that is was the general opinion.

Your statement about Oman was certainly one of the reasons I did it. I unvoted partly because of his reasonable defense, partly because he voted me (and so could prove my point), but mainly because I wussed out.

I didn't expect you to hammer him either because you appeared townie. Now I'm not so sure.

I swear ox1de is scum. Looker seemed sore that he got lynched, so he inconspiciously reveals his partner and then says "bah! Go town!" gee isn't that strange? He said there's no honor amongst scum, the makes sense, and then says to kill ox1de. I really can't see oman as scum subconsiously. This will so be the most stupidest or smartest but scummiest move on my part in the game. Hope the town doesn't lose Sad

Definitely the stupidest move. If Oman is scum, then it's game over. If you are scum, you just incriminated yourself quite badly.

So Oman has now gone from most scummy to not scum and again you give no reasons for this. Why don't you justify yourself?

Strangely you didn't answer my previous question:

@GreenDude: Your opinion of me has gone from probably town, through neutral, to probably scum, yet you've given no reasons. Why is that?

[0x1de]

Oh, and I'll address the Looker/0x1de connection after Oman has posted. No point wasting my breath if he is scum.

[0x1de]

Thank you very much ox1de for giving me information.

You're welcome. Though it's a shame that you are not so forthcoming. You don't even answer direct questions, even if asked a second time...

[0x1de]

All I was going to say was that just because she put two comments in the same post doesn't mean they were connected. I'm surprised that you all ignore the obvious explanation (telling partner who to kill) and focus on the less likely cause. Which also depends on Looker breaking the rules.

Anyway, I'm moving house too. I probably won't have internets for a week or two. Since Oman has enough on his plate already, why don't we bring this game to an early end? I've really enjoyed it and it's been a great intro to the world of mafia. You guys and those that got killed made it so.

vote: GreenDude

Obviously he will vote me and Oman has the decider. Oman will probably hammer me, but I'd rather be right than win (if you see what I mean).

[0x1de]

Oh dear. Sorry GreenDude, and sorry Town. I should learn to trust my instincts.

@GreenDude: in my defense, if Oman had been around when you voted me, then you'd have lost the game. We didn't lose it, Oman won it.

To be honest I made several mistakes throughout the game, but they say "if you don't fall off, you're not trying hard enough". I'm pleased that I made it to the last day in my first game, but that's only the secondary goal. I'm embarrassed about letting scum win.

In retrospect, Oman killed hiphop purely to throw suspicion off him. He's a confident and good player, so he probably felt up to the challenge.

[0x1de]

Relax guys, GreenDude wasn't the first townie to be hanged this game.

I'd long suspected Oman, but could never prove it. If you look back, there aren't any of his posts that are clearly scummy. I began to doubt myself - it was like I'd reached a decision and was now trying to justify it. You know, like deciding to buy an iPhone and then coming up with reasons afterwards.

GreenDude was acting real suspicious. He radically changed his view on me without an real explanation even when I asked him. To go from townie to "I am sure 0x1de is scum"

without much reason

is very odd. It is ironic that he claimed "I told you so" after that.

There were nine players in this game. To say that I am the only reason that town lost is simply churlish.