Newbie 816 - Game over!

[Adel]

vote: Steve Kulko

for not having an avatar. a sure sign of scum.

[Adel]

unvote, vote: pancakes

for not having an avatar.

you can get an avatar by visiting the Profile link at the top of the screen, and selecting a image, either from your home machine or from a url.

[Adel]

But I'm used to NLing at epicmafia.

Vote: No lynch

I've played at epicmafia, and no lynching on day 1 is standard there. It is not standard play here, mostly because our power-role to vanilla role ratio is lower, on average.
~~~
Are all of you familiar with the F11 wiki article?
How about the No Lynch article?

[Adel]

I've got a question. Why are the days so long? I'd think 7 RL days would be more than enough time.

actually, I agree. If we all post several times a day, we should be able to generate an informed (as informed as day 1s ever are) decision within a week or so.

[Adel]

yeah, so why are you voting for EB?

[Adel]

lailai was the first to get two votes, right?

[*]At deadline, ½ the original number of votes will be required for a lynch. In the case of a tie, the person who first received the required number of votes will be lynched. If this number is not met, a No Lynch will occur.

There will be no reduced number of votes in LyLo.

[Adel]

unvote, vote: ElectricBadger

yeah, so why are you voting for EB?

RVS?

are you happy with him being at lynch -2 then?

[Adel]

unvote; vote: Adel

No. You are an IC, you should know better than to put someone at l-2 in a game where the newbies can EASILY quicklynch.

take a look at http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... uthor=Adel to see how many posts I've made on this site since I placed him at lynch -2. No quicklynch was going to happen.

[Adel]

Unvote Lailai, Vote Adel.

I see what your play is, but a nice time to shift out of RVS, I think. How did you feel about me at L-2, Adel?

I wasn't worried about it.

[Adel]

Unvote Lailai, Vote Adel.

I see what your play is, but a nice time to shift out of RVS, I think. How did you feel about me at L-2, Adel?

I wasn't worried about it.

And what sort of a tell were you looking for?

none, I'm just getting to know the rest of you.

unvote; vote: Adel

No. You are an IC, you should know better than to put someone at l-2 in a game where the newbies can EASILY quicklynch.

take a look at http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... uthor=Adel to see how many posts I've made on this site since I placed him at lynch -2. No quicklynch was going to happen.

How does that relate to anything?

I was on the site and paying attention to all of the games on my watched topics list. Had there been another vote, placing him at lynch -1, I would've responded by unvoting. Then we would have a tell, or at least a "teaching" moment.

~~~

A teaching moment:
using the search function of the forum, like ttp://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.php?search_author=Adel allows you to see all posts made by a certain player, in reverse chronological order. Many games have a problem with lurkers, and many new(ish) and some lazy veteran players make the mistake of lurking in one game while posting often in the forums or in other games. Talking about on-going games is against the site rules, but mentioning (as an example) that player xxxx hasn't posted in this game for four days, but has posts elsewhere on each of those days for a total of 74 total posts since his last post in this game, is allowed by every mod I've played under.

[Adel]

since there is only a 50% chance of us having a cop, I'm very confident that no-lynch is a really bad idea. In most games here, even ones where mathematically no lynch is a good idea or at least no worse than a random lynch, proposing a no lynch will only draw negative attention your way from most other players.

Additionally, it is a prevalent belief on this site that day 1 provide much of the information necessary for the town to successfully lynch scum on later days, even if the day 1 lynch is basically random.

[Adel]

by my count:
ElectricBadger - 1 (Adel)
Cirdua - 3 (Steve Kulko, tfrench, lailai)
lailai - 2 (havingfitz,)
no lynch- 1 (pancakes)
dramonic - 1 (Cirdua)
Adel - 2 (dramonic, ElectricBadger)

Not Voting - 0 ()

[Adel]

unvote, vote:havingfitz

most probable scum on a pancakes-town wagon.

[Adel]

What're your thoughts on trfrench as the second L-1?

We're looking for a scumgroup of 2, not 3.

So there could be a scum group of trfrench + havingfitz, or havingfitz + Cirdua, but I don't think Cirdua + trfrench is very likely.

[Adel]

I don't understand voting tfrench over havingfits. Please explain it to me again.

[Adel]

Ok, HF put pancakes at L-1 originally. TF continued and put pancakes at L-1 AGAIN after EB unvoted. So while I agree that HF's L-1 vote was suspicious, it seems moreso suspicious that TF would see the L-1, the unvote, the reasoning, and then cast the L-1 again.

Does that make sense?

who can be scum if TF is scum?
who can't be scum if TF is scum?
who can be scum if TF is town?
who can't be scum if TF is town?

[Adel]

unvote, vote: imkingdavid

it is impolite to answer a question with a question.

[Adel]

In any case, for the sake of being

polite

...

who can be scum if TF is scum?
who can't be scum if TF is scum?
who can be scum if TF is town?
who can't be scum if TF is town?

1) 1 other person
2) 7 other people
3) 2 other people
4) Himself and 6 other people.

stop being evasive, scumbag, name names.

[Adel]

I'm holding out on you questions until I get an adequate answer to the four simple questions that I asked first.

Name names, please.

[Adel]

As a follow up, let me explain why I think it's a bad idea to pair two people as possible scum partners before you lynch the first scum. Here are a few scenarios:

Scenario 1

You pair 1 Townie and 1 Scum. You lynch the townie first, and since you paired the two, you will find it less likely that the actual scum is really scum. So you let him go based on your failed pairing.

Bad for town.

Scenario 2

You pair 1 Townie and 1 Scum. You lynch the scum first, and since you paired the two, you find it very likely that the actual townie is scum. So you lynch the townie as well. While you might have found a scum, you ended up lynching a townie for no good reason.

Bad for town

Scenario 3

You pair 2 Townies. You lynch one or both of them (just to make sure).

Very bad for town.

Scenario 4

You pair 2 Scum. This is the ONLY way it can go well. And at this point, where there are 9 players, I don't think it's highly likely that unless we get lucky we will pair scum.

Good for town, but HIGHLY unlikely.

So that is why you at least wait until the first scum is gone to look for links between two people. In my last game, town lost because they focussed on who might be linked.

Also, can we try and be a bit more active? This game looks to be going a bit slow, imo. (4 pages in 1 week is slow to me)

Finally, understand that we might not lynch scum Day 1. In fact, the odds are against it (7/9 are not scum, only a 2/9 chance of being correct).

However, since there have been so many unnecessary bandwagons, I would recommend that we please try to do some thinking before we place our votes, especially when we get up in the L-2 and L-1 and Hammer areas.

My vote is on TF right now, but I will change it if someone else appears more scummy to me.

this post is so misguided it is breathtaking.

Examining connections between players and voting patterns are the two most reliable ways of identifying who is scum. Part of examining connections between players is encouraging players to express what their opinion of other players is, like the four questions I asked iamkingdavid. More voting and more bandwagons on players yields more empirical information that can be used later in the game.

The four scenarios he listed are true enough, but just like the lynch on day 1 that will probably lynch a townie, their utility is in identifying the entire scum team later in the game.

[Adel]

Should I ask the same to you but change TF to HF?

yes, I think that would a be a useful question for you to ask.

And I don't see why we are trying to look for partners at this point. As I showed in my second post, there is very little chance of being correct until we lynch one scum.

as you

claimed

in that post, but it is not true.

Why are you so concerned about defending TF?

Because I can see HF being scum with more people than I can see TF being scum with. I think that both are scummy, but HF is more likely to be scum.

[Adel]

@Adel: another question: Is impoliteness a bigger scum tell to you than bandwagonning?
Because I've only heard of the latter ever being a legit scum tell. And you were pretty quick to switch from HF (for L-1ing pancakes) to me (for mere impoliteness).

I didn't vote HF for L-1 pancakes, I voted him bacause I can easily see him being scum with TF or Cirdua or EB (thanks to EB switching from HF to TF). I

FTR, I don't think that impoliteness is a scumtell.

[Adel]

I've repeatedly stated that it DOES NOT help town IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM to attempt to pair people. Did you miss my post? If you saw it, what are your thoughts about it?

saying that something is true does not make it true, and repetition has no effect. I think that your post was logical, but logic varies with player aptitude with logic, not player alignment.

I'm not going to try and pair people that might or might not be scum until I know for a fact who at least one of the scum is.
In any case, I'm not going to be pressured into hurting the town by one vote from you.
But since you're so desperate for names, you may feel free to list people in whatever way makes you sleep peacefully at night.


And while you're at it, you can answer the questions that

you

skipped:

since when is impoliteness a scum tell? And do we have to be polite when scum hunting?

impoliteness is not a scum tell, and we do not have to be polite when we are scum hunting.

and

Why are you so concerned about defending TF?

I think that HF is more likey to be scum, and the way that TF picked up votes so quickly does not encourage me to think of him as scum.

You seem pretty determined to call me scum. What are your accusations against me? From what I can tell they are that: 1) I am not being polite and 2) I am being evasive/avoiding your questions.

Well, 1) you calling me "scumbag" isn't really the most polite thing I've seen, and 2) I just stated a couple of questions that you avoided.

I think that you are trying to:
1) discourage people from voting
2) discourage people from making the kind of posts (those linking players together) that will be useful under later analysis, once some players alignments are revealed by the mod
3) evade my questions