Newbie 803 - Game Over.

[Santos]

confirmed

[Santos]

Vote: Living Players

because we can't vote dead ones.

[Santos]

Whoa, shows how much I pay attention. A ':' would have been nice.

No, it was a joke, but the intention was voting for an actual player; I thought

Living Players

was an actual player in the game.

[Santos]

Yeah,

Vote: Lupo El Loco

. ...biatch :p

[Santos]

Are you saying that people who talk more are more likely to be scum than people who vote more?

That would be bad logic, if that is what he is saying.

[Santos]

@Lupo, what are we betting?

[Santos]

Lupo, would you agree or disagree with Einlanzers thoughts on jonny?

[Santos]

VP Baltar, why start with a random vote on an IC?

[Santos]

To answer jammer:

I've appealed to emotion before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Lupo, are you done stating the obvious? Does anyone look suspicious to you? Why?

VP Baltar, are you going to include your suspicions in your reread post?

[Santos]

How should I post 'more' when I've been posting?

[Santos]

I'm posing questions to players. I would like responses from them.

Where am I 'looking how it unfolds'?

Where should I have 'opinions on the matter'?

[Santos]

Actually, ignoring questions seems a little suspicious.

[Santos]

I asked VP why he voted an IC because it seemed highly doubtful that it wasn't random. And he even said he voted him because Porkens got him lynched in another game. So, it wasn't random. His ulterior motive is revenge then? Ultimately, his vote is rather a joking vote as opposed to a random vote and I am not as suspicious it now.

Ein's lynch party grew fast. You're right that it seems a little steep for it to be random voting stage, but when does random voting stage really end? Does this mean his voters have good reasons for voting him? Well, lets look.
1) jammer votes Ein because he votes no lynch without saying anything. This is a good call, but its definitely not random.
2)

Jammer's vote on Einlanzers seemed to me like an attempt to push him into an explination of his NL vote, something that seems to me like a completely viable play.

^this.
3)I agree with Lupo here, but so far the main focus of votes on one person are definitely not random. Ein is not helping himself with his 'experience' comment. Looks scummy, IMO.
4) Clar votes
5) Appeal to emotion?
6) VP Baltar, why do you come to this conclusion?
7) Ein is OMGUS, right?
8) This seems indicative of a scum-tell. Turning the attention on himself to someone else. Does anyone agree?

Who do you suspect?

Lupo and VP Baltar to begin with, but Ein has surely turned into suspect #1 now.

If ein was your partner, how would you react on these posts?

This would depend on the opportunity if a 'bus' was available or not. If it is not available, then I would probably be wishy washy about the whole deal with him and distance myself from him as much as possible. If it was available then I would vote him now and use his play above as the reason to place my vote on him.

Was the wagon on Ein too much suddenly?

After taking a look back, no. It was not random and it has substantial evidence against him.
The only downside is what VP brought up in he could be newbtown by voting No lynch.

Vote: Einlanzers

Einlanzers you are now at L-1.
I think a claim is now justified.

[Santos]

EBWOP

I see in #6 I posted the actual quote instead of the link. Still works, even though I fail at BB code!

[Santos]

I thought what you are thinking about Clar, VP. It does seem entirely suspicious that she would vote so fast on Ein, but the fact that Ein condemned himself for the reasons he is being voted is warranted, IMO.

These are both loaded questions. Loaded questions=scummy.

Yes, I thought the same thing. But to humor jammer, I wanted to elaborate and see what he thinks of my answers. And I think if someone chooses not to try and answer them might be refraining from indicting themselves.

El Lupo Loco is looking pretty suspicious for the way he is avoiding taking an active role in the game, but is still posting pretty regularly. His vote on jammer for "trying to control discussion" or whatever is crap. If you think someone is controlling the game, then post more and take control.

I am not going to say that my posts don't appear like active lurking, but they were intended to get a damn response from Lupo other than his 'contentless' posts. I'm glad people are agreeing that he should be held accountable for one question at least.

Clara is the most scummy to me, however, for her sheeping along on einlanzers. She has at least some experience with mafia and I would expect her to be able to scumhunt on her own without being led around by jammer.

Exactly. So why vote her? Do you have questions for her since you think she is the most scummy? She has already stated as to why Ein is scummy. Could it be an early bus on her scum partner?

[Santos]

Well, its good to speculate what things could and couldn't be regarding a player bussing his/her partner. On the other side, you may be right that she is being an opportunistic scum not trying to offer anything else towards other players who definitely deserve some pressure.

[Santos]

So you would have been suspicious if I "random" voted Porkens? Why? (Even though there really isn't such a thing as a random vote unless your roll a die or something)

I would have been suspicious that your random vote would be on an IC considering you are the only other IC. But you were merely being humorous, right?

I know I am not certain ein is scum, and I feel a lot more can be discussed before we move toward a lynch. Why are you in a hurry to get him to claim and possibly lynch him?

Because the evidence towards him is not looking good. It looks scummy. If he wants retribution, then he should do something in his favor so he is

not

lynched today.

I would like to hear your case against me Santos, since I am in your top three of suspects.

I have a case against you? I asked you why you voted Porkens, but don't think I had an actual case. Why are you saying that I have placed you in my 'top 3' suspects? Did I say that?

Why are you asking for other people to back up your suspicions?

I am asking for what other people think because if they agree or do not agree I can then ask them questions about their thoughts.

If you're suspicious of ELL and myself, wouldn't you want to spend some time questioning us?

Again, I've already got my answers from you. Lupo, however, has not provided a damn thing.

So what is my objective? Get a claim from Ein because he definitely is suspect #1 on my list today and after his claim move on to Lupo because he is suspect #2. I'm not advocating lynching Ein today, am I? Where did I say that? I know I asked for a claim, but I don't recall saying 'I want to lynch Ein today'. The best thing we can do today is get a several suspects on the table and then decide collectively as to who we all agree should go to the rope today.

[Santos]

Right now it would be very easy for scum to come in and hammer him if he's town and end the day.

Exactly. They could hammer him, but then that would give me the satisfaction of knowing they are the scum because it was noted that he was at lynch minus 1 and that no other vote is warranted because we need him to claim due to his scummy performance.

Putting someone at L-1 is the same as saying you support their lynch. I've just explained above how easy it would be for scum to come in and kill him. You have facilitated this by putting him at L-1.

Also, are you proposing that we get multiple people to claim today before we make our lynch decision?

1) I support the lynch if he refuses to claim. I will unvote if his claim satisfies my suspcions or I will unvote after his claim (regardless of what I think his alignment is) and move on to Lupo.
2)I thought getting at least 1, if not 2 people to claim on Day 1 is perfect way to start? How would this be bad? Well, for one the doctor or cop could be the one we picked on, but the fact that Ein put himself out there like that is his own fault. We cannot ignore the evidence that started this lynch in the first place.

Yes, you listed me as one of the three people you were and/or are suspicious of today.

I'm not sure where I listed you three anywhere, but yes, as I read the thread and reread the thread I have questions I would like to pose towards suspicious players. As I've played mafia here I've grown accustomed to spreading the field of questions to particular players I find suspicious as opposed to tunneling one single player the entire Day. Such instances have gotten me lynched before because no one wanted to work with me because I had such tunnel vision. As I work around the player list, people might begin working with me if I broaden my spectrum of suspects. Ex: Lupo ignoring simple questions asked of him. Other people in the thread agree he should answer the question. This is what I find beneficial as working together as a team to find scum.

Not really. You asked "right?" and "does anyone agree?", which looks like you are trying to get people to back you up. If you wanted someone's opinion on the matter you would have asked specific people and said something like "do you agree or disagree with this?"

Once again, this must be a collaborative effort, VP. If what I present in who I find scummy is backed up by others, then we definitely have something to discuss. If my thoughts are shot down or called unsubstantial, then I will have to drop it and find something else to work on.

[Santos]

Oh and in case its not blatantly obvious for those who might not read the thread and see an instance to put down a vote not realizing it was the hammer vote...

Ein is at L-1! Do not vote until he has returned with a claim and/or a defense!

Do not vote Ein, or you will end the day!

There, that should be apparent enough for the newbies who can't even properly vote, etc.

[Santos]

Whatever :p

Someone else give it a shot then.

[Santos]

Look at it this way:

If Ein was a cop or a doctor, then he should have been more conservative in his random vote for a no lynch as well as the OMGUS he sent to jammer.

People are saying its suspicious of me to want a claim from him? The man indicted himself. How are we to trust him anymore unless he gives us a claim?

And if he does claim cop or doctor, wouldn't that be good that we at least had him claim before just lynching him?

[Santos]

And how are you to trust him if he claims now? He could simply, you know, lie about it.

Aye. This would be the point. If he lies, he is more likely to be counter claimed. If he is not counter claimed, then we are more inclined to believe him.

1) If he claims cop, then we expect results from him.
2) If he is a doctor, then we can expect him to die tonight.

Unvote

Ein, I want you to claim.

[Santos]

More activity plz

Fixed.

[Santos]

Well, Zorblag had to deal with a family thing, so he has all the right to be absent from the game. Everyone else not posting enough...suck it :p

[Santos]

Lupo, you still haven't given me an answer to my question posed to you earlier...have you?

[Santos]

Because if I didn't mention Lupo, how would he know I have questions made out to him? Is it supposed to be a guessing game? :p

'Okay! Now who am I talking to when I ask

this

questions!?'

[Santos]

Me pulling my vote wasn't intended to show my alignment. I was pulling it for my own sake because you actually humored us with a post and claim that sounded like a townie giving up and fingering two players you suspected the most before you died. I was hoping people would speculate on that and decide if you were lynch worthy today or not.

[Santos]

My interpretation of post 178:

dfh239nina98aSDN9NFAS8DHFPAUH2-FQ9HPFUH;-hh 234q4929qpbp[qbpf9hapdhf

Thanks for playing.

[Santos]

Whats you normal style of play what we saw earlier or what we saw later?

Its a discombobulated mess, let me tell you.

Your jump onto the Eins wagons seemed the most opportunistic.

Yes. I agree entirely. I wanted the damn guy to say something.

^Lupo too.

[Santos]

Hurley, hit the button! Quick! All the numbers and letters there are the code to start it over!

[Santos]

I guess VP hasn't seen Lost. Hurley

[Santos]

Oh, and Head Honchos vote seems incredibly OMGUS, but I didn't say it earlier. I was just laughing.

[Santos]

Omg, answer my questions and then I'll answer yours. Tit for tat, brosef

[Santos]

Yes, Head.

[Santos]

I'm really tired of going back to point out the same thing I've pointed out. If he could try to answer questions that seem relevant to the game, as opposed to what Lupo was actually playing at, then maybe that would help me out. I don't get why he gets a 'get out of jail card' for not having to answer his predecessors' posed questions.

Its ridiculous how I am scummy now because a replacement can't fulfill his obligations to the game.

[Santos]

Yeah, that's it, bud. So are you done kicking rocks and going to answer?

[Santos]

I don't see how he cannot catch up reading the thread and answer what his own thoughts are that were originally posted to Lupo.

[Santos]

Or is my stubborn attitude going to get me lynched? lol

[Santos]

Well, let me give it another go and I'll reread the thread with what I have observed.

[Santos]

Lupo says votes are more likely to provide clues about scum who aren't careful. Since Ein was an early topic for the day we get him voting for johnny and appealing to emotion.

I asko Lupo what he thinks about Ein's thoughts. I get nothing.

Conclusion? Lupo doesn't 'put his money where his mouth is' and offer thoughts on what is indicative of scum's and their voting patterns as opposed to random discussion not being indicative of scum.

-----------------------
Now to answer your questions since I don't seem I will be getting mine since that guy replaced out for being a hypocrite.

Head Honcho doesn't like how I put Ein at minus 1 and votes me. He says that I am scum because I put him at lynch minus 1 and my comments are 'snarky'. (No, I'm not going to look that up lol) Whatever it means, its contradictory of what my objective was with obtaining information from Eins. Eins did not start off well and was changing his votes to other players instead of answering for his own convictions (this is sometimes known as deflecting the attention) and he was appealing to emotion (If you lynch me, I'm a townie, but I tried to help anyways so I think johnny is scum!). ^This coupled with his admittance to giving up was ludicrous to do, but does his surrender mean we're just going to lynch a townie? I request that he should role claim to prevent a lynch as I explained my reasoning earlier to VP. Ein claimed and since then has proved not as scummy as we once thought.

Head Honcho, am I not doing my job for the town in preventing, an almost unanimous agreement, a newbie townie lynch?

VP Baltar says I'm deficient in providing responses. Then he votes me. You don't seem to have this sort of conclusion towards Ein or Lupo when they are incapable of answering questions. In fact, you defend Ein and never pursue Lupo for those reasons you place a vote on me. Seems a little contradictory, VP.

jammer misinterprets this and says this. I said it seems like an OMGUS vote, but it wasn't, obviously. I was being snide towards Head's ignorance to answer anything for his predecessor's scummy play.

VP, we've seen this before, haven't we? lol

Touche'

^This. Especially from someone who thinks posing questions is a completely reasonable substitute for analysis.

IT isn't?

What Mafia forum are you friggin from?

Santos: If ein hadn't returned and had instead lurked into a replacement, would that have made his role more or less likely to be scum?

More likely as it was his first game and he already seemed to have given up playing. However, he did not and now seems more likely to be a newb townie as opposed to newb scum. He did not give up playing on us because

that is more of a townie trait

as opposed to someone who replaced someone who 'lacks responses' and replaces out.

Also, earlier you spoke about getting multiple people to claim day one. I was confused about how that would be a pro town play. Could I get some explanation?

I like how you used 'multiple' as that would entail more than 1 obviously, but grossly stipulate that I would be seeking more than two role claims. You seem to have missed my intentions. Since some people agreed that Lupo was acting scummy, as well as Clar's vote on Ein, including Ein's complete lack of responses towards his voters we would most likely move on from Ein (which we did) and pursue the other people who we found to be scummy. Role claims would be nice, but not at the expense of exposing a power role. IMO, Ein forfeited that right as explained by myself earlier which forced me to put him in a situation where he would die or come out and explain his actions.

As for 'multiple' role claims, that would depend on what we seriously need before we make a lynch today. Since I no longer suspect Ein as being scum, I moved on to Lupo (Head Honcho) as he was my 2nd suspect.

Head Honcho playing around instead of being serious.

It is very difficult for a replacement to be able to understand the actions of the person they are replacing.

You're right, VP. It would be difficult to answer on behalf of someone who was playing incredibly scummy. So Head ignores those facts and 'OMGUS's' me instead saying I'm deficient.

Also, regardless of that, you need to answer the case he made against you because not doing so, as you said, look suspicious.

And you're becoming annoyingly, incredibly redundant. You've made your point, how about you stick by it with everyone who does not respond to cases made towards them.

Head Honcho continues to play around and not answer the simple questions I posed to Lupo.

Hurley points out this which I also agree with in what I thought about Porkens puting Ein at L-2. Ein answered soon thereafter, but Porkens left his vote on Ein for quite some time! Then decides I'm the better candidate as opposed to Lupo and Clara.

FoS: Porkens

for having no ability to look at the entire thread as opposed to singling people out.

Head Honcho ignores jammer, here.

In retrospect I get the feeling that he didn't want to have to write a bunch of text, and he maybe felt like that's what you guys wanted out of him. He requested replacement at some point on either the 22nd or 23rd and if your post had anything to do with it I think it just reassured him that this was not the game he had in mind.

So it would seem he didn't want to put his money where his mouth was and quit.

Who do you think should be the lynch today and why?

Right now I'm seeing a few scum pairings:
1) Clar/Porkens
2) Clar/Head Honcho
3) Porkens/Head Honcho

However, I remain skeptical because there is also Chiarosicada who has yet to provide much of anything. But as it appears my two top suspects now are Porkens because he focuses his attention

only

on the people with the most votes and does not look around the thread at anyone else or pose questions. This shows a complete lack of initiative in scum hunting and I've called one IC out before for doing this and he ended up being scum.

Clara is suspicious because of her vote toward Ein earlier and what VP said was suspicious about her part in being on the Ein-Wagon.

Head Honcho should at least back up his predecessor's ballsy proclomations and place his bet on who he really thinks is scum by what we've seen today.

VP should not be so damned redundant.

Ein should offer us who he thinks is part of the scum team and who should be lynched today.

Chiarosicada should post about what he thinks of my response in this thread.

Hurley is looking the most pro town on my list, btw because he does possess an ability in pointing out scummy variations.

jammer is doing a fine job asking questions to everyone.

Porkens/Clar, I could care less of what they think because they've obviously got no problems against wagons.

[Santos]

Lupo talked the talk, but did not walk the walk. This condemns the replacement. The replacement has made no attempt at redeeming himself, hence, my frustration with why he gets to slide by due to a technicality.

[Santos]

Obviously, no one said he is sliding by. No one is backing me up with my earlier question posed to his predecessor which he is perfectly capable of answering.

[Santos]

Hence, why I am not voting him. I've shown who I'm suspicious of. I might as well go after who I think is the most scummy.

Unvote (?)

Vote: Porkens

[Santos]

Wow, really? jammer, where have I not answered you?

Claim: townsperson

Guys, where do you normally find scum hiding in a game if they're not posting vehemently trying to prevent their own lynch? You find them not scum hunting. In an IC's case, it can make perfectly good sense in catching one. Look at the performances and note the differences between the two:

VP Baltar - asking provocative questions, not singling one individual out, but addressing the entire board, not a hasty lyncher
Porkens - quick to vote, not asking many questions, does not stand by his word of what he'll do, completely tunneled on one person at a time instead of eyeing the rest of the players.

Porkens is scum, IMHgutO.

[Santos]

Also, why is Hurley getting flak for his vote on Porkens?

1) A case is presented to why a player think someone is scum.
2) Someone agrees and votes for that person as well
3) Someone else steps in and votes adding the bandwagon
4) Another player thinks this lynch party is going too fast
5) ...

^ does anyone see a pattern here? Or a lack of a pattern and why? That is directed at everyone, by the way. I definitely have substantial proof at how I can prove some players are scum and not scum.

Ein's lynch party was just that example.
My lynch party was just that way, except it didn't contain the 4th option.
My proposed candidacy that Porkens is scum was supported with a reason, Hurley agreed and it was completely shot down.

Am I missing something, somewhere, where I am not doing what has been asked of me in complying with the other players and trying to come to a conclusion of finding scum as opposed to lynching the wrong person today? I've done all that I can in looking back through the thread and finding patterns in votes and posting styles that point vindictively at scum-tells.

I really don't want to throw in the towel and call it quits on day 1. It has to make sense why I am the best candidate for today because as far as I could tell we could have all lynched Ein from the start just the same as you're going to do to me now. I'm at L-1 now and have been upfront with just about everything I believe I have been.

[Santos]

I'll bring cake.

[Santos]

Lol, VP why are you blatantly ignoring.how opportunistic his votes are plus his complete lack in scum hunting this day?

Are you covering up for him? You're awful nice to all the other players today by practically letting them get away with murder, but the moment I try to stand behind my advocations to who is scum, I'm given a slap on the wrist and a noose around my neck! What gives with you, Mr. IC?

[Santos]

What i gathered on a reread enlightened my view on particular players.

I was becoming too focused on Lupo that it skewed my ability to take look at the game as a whole as opposed to individual parts. After looking back it broadened the horizon to find the players who are really doing a half ass job in hunting scum today. My conclusion is simple: Lynch someone who has been activley lurking and not providing any substantial evidence except facts that have been reiterated to death.

If its not that simple, then I'm more than willing to be educated on my opinion.

[Santos]

****, then what the hell are you waiting for.

Preemptive *facepalm*

I tried presenting as best of a case against those who i found incredibly scummy today, but we've all digressed to the fact that my vehement demand for answers was the simplest task at getting me lynched.

*thumbs up*

[Santos]

And if you truly believe Clar is scum as well as myself, then what the hell is holding you back from voting her isntead of me? You get the same information as well as keeping a more active player who has every intention of scum hunting.

For an IC, you're pretty ignorant.

[Santos]

I think its been every game except a lovers mafia where I've been town.

[Santos]

You talk about this like it was a definite mistake. Yes, we could have lynched Ein, you put the L-1 vote on him, you didn't swoop in and stop the Ein lynch. There is no certainty that he is town. It was a poor case to lynch off of the whole time. The lynch falling apart is not a town tell, it's a bad case tell.

1) That is because it

is

a mistake!
2) Ein had been reluctant to do anything so the L-1 vote was to get him into his do or die place to see what he would contribute. He did splendidly hence, my removal of my vote on him.
3) The lynch did not 'fall apart'. You make it sound like that would be a bad thing. Ein did his 'best' to defend himself and he comes off as a newb townie as opposed to newb scum. His appeal to emotion was the biggest town-tell, IMO.

This is such a scummy post. You pulled your vote to see if people actually wanted to lynch him. ldfkajfalfkjafj I want to lynch Santos so bad.

Aye, but as it would turn out, he is

not

the best option...as I've shyed away from thinking you were the best option as well after I did a reread and found who I'm confident is scum.

[Santos]

They're not tunneling me. They just must really believe I'm the best lynch for the day LMAO

[Santos]

For Head Honcho, here is an awful case of me winning.

Here is probably my most decent game where I lucked out incredibly!

This is probably one of my worst games as a townie.

Then in Newbie 730 I did pretty well with Charter playing as scum (I was looking in my PM inbox and forgot I had played as a team with him.)

Then in Lovers Mafia Open 133, I was scum with sekinj, but failed because I was a vote happy scum.

Enjoy the meta.

[Santos]

Oh and in 774, I called out SensFan for not scum hunting as I am doing the same to Porkens here. Gut.

[Santos]

lol

Regardless, I think Santos lynch is where it's at for D1 here.

That is because you can't tell what side I'm on! You're not doing a good job for the town and hell, you might even cost the town the game later (or is this your evil plan?). How many times do you need to repeat yourself before

you

even believe yourself?

[Santos]

wth, I missed that. Chiarosicada, why are you voting Porkens?

[Santos]

Hasty.

[Santos]

He is very transparent, as if he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. I seriously lack confidence in any vote he could make because he is a follower.

[Santos]

What are you trying to get at?

1) If you were scum, then you wouldn't bother continuing to talk with me because you would just be waiting for the hammer
2) If you are town, then your constant inquisitiveness may be a shining beacon of hope in this mafia after all.

You have me optimistic.

[Santos]

follows any wagons that are on a easy lynch target

^this. There is never a better opportunity than this for scum.

[Santos]

I think VP is losing confidence. 'Put your money where your mouth is'

LMAO.

Its nice to see how a couple people are sticking their necks out on my behalf, but according to VP, it would make more sense to lynch me for some stupid reason as opposed to

lynching someone like Clar or Porkens who've acted scummy the entire day and have not done a damn thing to scum hunt.

Because ^this is being ignored, VP is slowly losing confidence in his own game play that lynching me is his last resort.

Or he's scum playing puppets with several players here.

[Santos]

Vote Count 1.11

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

Santos: 4:

Porkens (15), Head_Honcho (17), VP Baltar (18), Hurleys_Van (22)

Porkens: 2: Santos (20), Chiarosicada (23)

Not voting: Claramata, Einlanzers, jammer

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Currently Santos would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 6:00 PM EDT/3:00 PM PDT on Tuesday, July 7th.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

There

is

a scum on this train.

Porkens

, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

Head Honcho

, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

VP Baltar

, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

Hurleys Van

, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

Clar

, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

Ein

, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

jammer

, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

[Santos]

Actually, I'm just trying to get him to flame me :p and ask for someone else to finish me off.

[Santos]

I don't understand why I am considered scumy, TBH. You say my thoughts on Ein earlier? I think they were well justified to get some activity out of him.

[Santos]

Loaded question! Because the game would be unfair casting both ICs as scum. You should know better than to ask a silly question like that :p

[Santos]

Well, TBH, Hurley, your voting patterns are incredibly suspicious as well. I hope you understand that what you did was following wagons instead of sticking to your own guns and not bowing down to another person's unsubstantiated 'arguments' like VP's. You wanted to vote somehwere, then someone called you suspect for voting where you wanted to vote, but then you basically chickened out and voted elsewhere which makes you look even scummier. This is what i see, and what the others saw, so you are either a very spastic townie or scum.

[Santos]

Still no one has shown me why I still have votes on my person...unless thats jammer's reason for still having them?

Voters: why are you voting me and why has my ability to continue playing not got me lynched yet?

1) You are still weighing the possibilities.
2) Both scum already have their votes on me so a hammer would come from a reluctant townie, most likely.
3) One scum had their vote on me while the other is waiting for the call sign to hammer.
4) There is no scum on my lynch party (highly unlikely, especially considering how opportunistic some people have made their votes so far) and the entire wagon is riddled with townies.

I guess the big question on my mind is: why am I not dead? If I do die, what the hell are the reasons?

I deserve some explanation.

[Santos]

^Further evidence why I think you and HV are the likely scum team. It wasn't a loaded question at all, nor was it silly. Role assignment is random, and both ICs very much could be scum. There was no need for you to step in here and answer for him.

Actually, it was a silly question because you know damned well the answer was ambiguous, hence, LOADED = how you can manipulate the answer to make someone sound more scummy.

You're getting awfully scummier every post, VP. I guess I'm the only one whose entirely afraid of how your posting ability has digressed from Day 1 til now.

[Santos]

You know what? Fuck it, I'm going to do it and you can 'omg, he OMGUS'd me!!11!!1!!! he's scummzorr!'

FoS: VP Baltar

because you're beginning to use questions like the above to use people's answer to manipulate them into making them sound more scummy than they really are. If that's not a scum-tell, then I'm a brown bag of shit lit on an old man's porch. Also, you're becoming so redundant its probably going to come full circle and you'll realize that I'm not scum, but a townie and you'll remove your vote from me and stand up and say 'I feel just the same way about Santos as I do about Ein.'

^Or was your defense on Ein entirely a scum buddy defense for your partner?

^^^THAT is a loaded question which I could use to manipulate your answer by the way. Enjoy

[Santos]

Read the thread and you'd know the reasons against you. People don't need to restate them for your sake.

So me pushing for Ein to claim is the reason? I thought we've been over this...

Your flailing about is quite indicative of scum fretting about their own lynch.

Yes, I don't want to be lynched because that would put us the scum at a disadvantage the rest of the game. WRONG, you're giving the scum a major lead by not pursuing the scummiest individuals this day has shown!

HV insinuated that both Porkens and I were acting scummy, so I asked him for clarification if he thought we were scum together. That is not by definition a loaded question. The example you gave is an actual loaded question because it assumes an answer. Mine did not.

Yes and no. Your question very much makes it plausible that two ICs can be the scum team, so why the hell isn't your question open for however you can make the interpretation from that other person's answer?

Jammer, why are you not voting Santos? You've stated your intentions many times and yet no vote for him.

Probably because he has the most sensible head on his shoulders this late in the day.

Santos, what were your motivations for stepping in on that last question and answering for HV, even though you find his voting patterns somewhat suspicious?

I explained that in post 340.

Are you glad that you pushed Ein to claim so early in the day?

Yes, actually, because I sincerely believe we avoided lynching a townie.

You

of all people should be agreeing with me on this because your initial mission was defending Ein the entire wagon! The conclusion of this I make is:
1) You're a townie defending a townie
2) You're a scum defending a scum
3) You're a scum defending a townie (ffs, there is no way a scum would do this to stall the day)
4) You're a townie defending a scum (which we know is FUBAR because you seemed confident he was newb-town)

So its either 1 or 2. Do you still believe Ein is townie, or scum?

What do you think of Ein's posting of recent and lack of voting?

He's not a god damned idiot, that's what I think.

Furthermore, you let Clar slide by even though she quickly landed a vote on Ein for something that is now arguably completely frivolous and even watched Porkens place a vote on Ein. So Porkens is off the hook for voting Ein, but not voting for me because you're both in agreement that I wasn't going to let Ein just toss in the hat and call it a day?

NO NO NO. Something is wrong there and it wreaks.

[Santos]

Unvote

Vote: VP Baltar

1) You were incredibly defensive of Ein while everyone else at least had a legitimate reason to put a vote on him.
2) You cast your suspicions on several players, but only choose one person to single out and follow a vote party that you know will be an easy lynch today.
3) You ask for others' help in hoping they will drop the hammer today even though they are seemingly not comfortable with a lynch yet, especially considering we still have 6 days before deadline.
4) The Ein vote party was a complete rush (which you were against) and my vote party couldn't arrive sooner for your taste...and now you're begging players with questions hoping their answers will give you collateral to use against them for not having the balls to lynch me.
5) You've been against a 'townie lynch,' but certainly advocate another 'townie lynch' because I 'grew a pair' or 'put my money where my mouth is' and told Ein to claim so we could weigh the confidence in our resolutions of him being more innocent than guilty as a newbie player.

[Santos]

And now I can't take jammer seriously.

[Santos]

So you're a spastic Van?

[Santos]

I'm going to bed.

[Santos]

while everyone else at least had a legitimate reason to put a vote on him.

Wrong.

How is this wrong? Ein was acting incredibly scummy! Why the hell did the wagon even start if that is 'wrong'?

Casting suspicions on several players is called scumhunting, and what makes you such an easy lynch? You didn't seem to have a problem with easy lynches when it was pointed at eins.

Apparently, I'm not an easy lynch, but just being dumbed down because I pressured Ein to role claim or die.

He wanted to throw in the towel, but I put him at L-1 to make him participate, not to just lynch him.

There is a fucking difference, and you keep trying to make me look scummy for doing something the town needed to do to not lynch a TOWNIE. And look what happened? OMG, everyone is not suspicious of Ein anymore! Holy crap! What happened?

You ask for others' help in hoping they will drop the hammer today even though

they

are seemingly

not comfortable

with a lynch yet, especially considering we still have 6 days before deadline.

Please provide quotes where I said I was uncomfortable with your lynch.

Here it is again, you trying to dispel what I actually said to make it look like I was saying

you

were uncomfortable with my lynch! Stop this! Eventually it leads to Strawmanning!

First you argue that I'm not pursuing you aggressively enough, now you are saying I'm rushing your lynch? Pick a side please.

Where? Where did I say this please?

Here's the difference: ein wasn't really acting scummy. You most definitely were and continue to.

ONCE AGAIN

, where is the proof? What posts specifically draw you to the conclusion that I am scum?

------------------------------------------

That would be interesting to see what happens if I move my vote back to Porkens...however, before I give that option, I would actually like to hear what Porkens has to say instead of lurking this day out probably hoping I eat rope before he has to talk. (In which he would come into the next day saying something like "Oh sorry I didn't have computer access" but I'm back now! Oh, man, had I seen Santos' latest posts I sure would have changed my mind!")

Mod, how long in between a person's last post do they get prodded? Speaking of which, Clar?

Because the Santos wagon is built upon very clear actions that he has taken in this game, whereas the Porkens wagon seems to be a shakier and built largely on accusations of his intentions with his votes.

Evidence-fail for the win. Nice, VP. So these 'actions' in the game are what are bringing me to my death today? I am stupefied as to what they are!

[Santos]

Christ.

Have I missed something or does it just boil down to "he changes his vote a lot for reasons I don't think are good"?

Honestly, I'm just trying to be fair in my questioning. Nothing has changed me wanting Santos dead at this point. It's pretty obvious what my stance on your vote swapping is, but perhaps

you could put a little bit of an effort into answering their posts.

Things like quoting and explaining reasoning further are always good.

Clar, last post 4 days ago.
Porkens, last post a day ago.

Chiarosicada, why, towards the end of the day, in post 373 you quoted me make me the entire reason why I must be lynched? Because of exactly what I said? That's frickin hilarious that I would instigate my own death by saying that because that was purely my intention!

[Santos]

Mod Note: As per the rules, prods are given if a player goes three days without posting or a prod is requested. Claramata has been prodded as of this morning PDT (i.e. post 337.)

I would at least expect a courtesy post from an IC instead of a lurking IC before I die today if I'm truly the one to die today.

[Santos]

So if you and VP are advocating not lynching Ein because he is not scummy, would those certainly be pro town traits?

[Santos]

Oh, 'active lurking' Sorry.

[Santos]

Have I missed something or does it just boil down to "he changes his vote a lot for reasons I don't think are good"?

"he changes his vote a lot for reasons I don't think are good"?

Quality post from an IC. Even though you and I are against each other this day, he certainly contradicts what is supposed to be 'helpful' in a newbie game.

[Santos]

Dude, I've been talking about him this entire DAY

[Santos]

If scum never made mistakes, mafia would just be a game of chance.

What is a mistake? You're implying what I said to be a scum mistake? Doesn't that seem a bit of a stretch to make?

[Santos]

Unvote

Vote: Porkens

Say something.

[Santos]

And you're not doing anything today. Do something.

[Santos]

And you're not doing anything today. Do something.

[Santos]

Whoops, double post.

[Santos]

Whoa, you just opened a whole new can of worms...care to elaborate on why you'd change it now this close to the deadline?

[Santos]

I'm getting more used to how he posts [shitty].

Fixed. lol

[Santos]

After rereading the last few pages, I'm really interested to see what Head has cooked up. His descriptions of Char are somewhat...accurate.

[Santos]

I feel so damned stupid. What is

scummy

about me? No one has said:

1) this
2) this
3) this

hence, you are scummy. I seriously will understand better if someone can draw it out for me like that. Otherwise, saying I'm scummy almost every post doesn't help me present a case against your claims.

[Santos]

Wanting to a make ein claim as early as possible!

I've provided why that was a good point as opposed to lynching the guy.

Later claiming it was you who saved him by making him claim!

Apologies, but you're right, I made that mistake in forgetting it was a collaborative effort in stopping his lynch. But it also proved that scum didn't take the chance to hammer which lead us to a couple conclusions:
1) Scum were already voting
2) Scum were scared to finish him off because they would be suspects Day 2

Trying to get a lynch on anybody and everybody!

Way to exaggerate. I know my vote has been in numerous places, but I'm playing the field as opposed to what some other people are doing today

Generally horrible logic in the cases you pursue!

Whatever.

[Santos]

Hardyly, Ein, remember I was hounding Head Honcho (Lupo) earlier? How would that be him (scum) sticking his neck out for me (scum) logical?

[Santos]

9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.

[Santos]

I totally thought Cathart was scum for posting once and laying the hammer on me.

Also, it didn't help my case later since Porkens turned out to be a cop. Jesus Christ, could you have played more scummy?