Newbie 803 - Game Over.

[Porkens]

Hello boys and girls, I'm your other IC.

[Porkens]

Porkens replaces SensFan

Vote Porkens

hater

I lol'ed, I really did !

I'm going to vote for the antepenultimate person to make a non-/confirm post.

[Porkens]

@Porkens
If a topic is quiet and going nowhere, and players are heading obviously the wrong way and going to speedlynch townys, would you try to rerail the game as IC, even if you where mafia?

Your question is unclear to me, unfortunately, because if the game is heading towards a speedlynch, then it isn't quiet and going nowhere.

If I assume that you meant "or" instead of "and," then I think I can answer.

If a topic is quiet and going nowhere, and I'm not comfortable with that; sometimes I will just let it sit and see who gets antsy. Other times I'll do something to shake the game up to hopefully get conversation going.

If I thought the town was "obviously" heading in the wrong direction, I assume that fact would be, either at that time or later, obvious to other people as well. With that in mind, it would be beneficial to me to act in the towns interest, even if I were scum.

That is assuming the situation is

obviously

bad. Not all speedlynches are bad, and lynching a townie isn't always the worst thing that can happen. In some cases, as town, I've supported, started, and hammered towny-lynches and not regretted it at all.

[Porkens]

Would you act otherwise in newb games as mafia if you can get away with it, then in other games?
Something obvious for a seasoned player, isn't always quite obvious for a new player. And as mafia would you kill the other IC to be left over as the only experienced player and have better shots at winning, or would you kill a lurker to keep a game interesting.

For what it's worth, I think I approach every game the same way, although the results usually come out differently.

If a scum-gambit would work in a regular game, depending on how many layers of WIFOM it had, it would probably work in a newbie game, so my answer to the question I think your asking is "no, I'd play the same ~general~ way." But that's not saying much as I haven't really established an obvious meta (as far as I know).

Would I kill the other IC or a lurker? Honestly- as scum, I'd never kill someone I thought was actually lurking, unless I had a very strong gut feeling that they were a PR. Lurkers can hurt the town more often than help it, so it's pro-scum to leave them alive IMO.

I generally ignore who's IC and who isn't. I don't ~think~ there's any rhyme or reason to the role distribution. That is to say; if one IC is scum the other wont be (I'm not 100% sure on that fact, though) so as scum I might NK an IC or I might not, it would depend on the IC and the game.

[Porkens]

Oh, and

vote Lupo El Loco

[Porkens]

Is there a way to have links to just a post? In can recall an other forum where quotes are automatically linked to the post it came from.

The code for the above is

(quote="(url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76#1724476)jammer in 44(/url)")Is there a way to have links to just a post? In can recall an other forum where quotes are automatically linked to the post it came from.(/quote)

just replace () with [].

to get the url for specific posts, click on the little white (sometimes its red, too) page icon next to the timestamp of that individual post.

[Porkens]

Random questions is just talking... It's easy for the mafia to talk and never take any risks. While by voting, they are taking risks that their voting record will ultimately look bad if they aren't careful. So I think random voting, at this point, is more likely to give clues.

Are you saying that people who talk more are more likely to be scum than people who vote more?

[Porkens]

Mod note: Removed as it was a post about another game.

[Porkens]

And that my friends is called posting in the wrong game.

Oh son of a !@#$.

Sorry.

Mod, can you delete 48 please?

Mod note: Removed without deleting as I want the vote count at the top of page three

[Porkens]

Well seeing as noone posted, I had no idea what anyone's personality was, so I couldn't even try to guess who was scum and who wasn't.

His very next post:

I believe he (jammer) did it because he knows who is scum and who is not.

Woah there pardner, are you saying you now know his personality enough to unload this much of a direct scum-accusation?

unvote

vote: Einlanzers

L-2 (2 votes away from a lynch)

If he flips scum I already think his partner is jonny, for that chainsaw-defense vote.

[Porkens]

I might be misusing the term, but from my understanding it means this;

When one scum comes under fire/suspicion/votes, the OTHER scum will vote/FOS/Attacj their attacker for, ostensibly, unrelated reasons. Basically "your attacking my partner, so I'm going to attack you."

Since Johnny hasn't said a word about you (Clara), but voted for you right after you voted for Lazerz, it comes off (to me, at least) as the kind of defense listed above.

[Porkens]

Ah, but go go gadget reading. Cartza and Carla are, in fact, different.

Please ignore me.

[Porkens]

Yeah, it could be. I'd like to keep the pressure on for a little while, though; at least till his next post.

[Porkens]

NL takes all power away from the town. It only works on EM so well because the setups are all open and familiar enough to "game."

Rest assured that 1 vote != a lynch. Most of forums mafia is voting for one another and seeing how the pressure, or lack thereof, affects people. Your declarative "I'm not voting because I don't want to risk lynching a townie therefore I'm so protown" wont hold water, unfortunately.

I'm not saying that it MAKES you scum to have that position, but that combined with your OMGUS (oh my god you suck) vote on your attacker, in my experience, are definitely scum-tells.

[Porkens]

Either way he doesn't appear to be an asset to the townies. And seeing as I'll probably be lynched anyways I may aswell go down trying to help the town out.

Does anyone else see this as an appeal to emotion?

[Porkens]

I could see it as a noob thing. But to declare, more than once; "I am town and I'm being lynched...poor me" is a noob-scum tactic (no offense). So is "I'm just a noobie, cut me some slack."

I'm not saying it's a strong scumtell, but it is certainly not compelling me to move my vote, nor is it an acceptable defense.

Thoughts jammer?

[Porkens]

Ok, I'm getting to my reread right now. While I'm doing that, porkens and jammer, can you tell me who else you are suspicious of, if anyone, besides ein?

I'm focused on Lazerz right now, and I'd like to reserve my other suspicions for the time being.

Both mafia and town-newbies are likely to appeal to emotion IMO

It might be a clue, but then again it might not.

So I don't find it to be very compelling evidence of anything.

How about Town and mafia-newbies?

[Porkens]

Ein is a good lynch. Vote for him now (hammer) and be a hero to the town.

(real post commin' later)

[Porkens]

Baltar, why aren't you voting for Santos?

[Porkens]

unvote

Lazer'z last post seems genuine to me. I'll believe his claim for the time being.

Someone else has been itching at my craw lately and I'll just come out and ask:

Santos; why have you mention Lupo so much in this game?

vote; Santos

[Porkens]

I ythink someone, earleir in the game, perhaps VP Baltar, commented on Santos and I asked "why aren't you voting for Santos?' That question was pointed because Santo's behavior, as outlined by VP (I think) was

vote-worthy

[Porkens]

I was more suspicious of Lazers.

[Porkens]

Mentioning one player a lot is fine by itself, and it may be fine in this case, too. However, when about 75% of your posts are mentioning one player in a variety of ways (i.e. agreeing, dissagreeing, attacking, etc...) then I see a connection.

[Porkens]

I'm sorry; it's been a hellacious week and I haven't had the time or energy to give the game the attention it deserves.

Ein's defense smacked of being genuine. I think he's a noob town.

SAntos, for reasons VP mentioned (those reasons are STILL valid), is my next good lynch.

Keeping pressure on someone isn't scummy and FOS Hurley's van for implying that it is.

[Porkens]

Scum team^

Notice how HV can't give opinions on Santos one way or the other, that he's still "on the fence". If we lynch Santos and he flips scum, that is pretty much the game right there.

qft

[Porkens]

At this point, I would vote Hurleys_Van.

I don't see the case on Carla as particularly strong atm.

[Porkens]

Chair would happily hammer anyone who's had a case built on them already, anyone who's had suspicion on them. This is what I get from 262-265.


VP: Et Tu?! Don't meta defend me scum!

[Porkens]

Now now let's not get catty.

Haven't I?

[Porkens]

Have I missed something or does it just boil down to "he changes his vote a lot for reasons I don't think are good"?

[Porkens]

Porkens, who do you think is the scum out of my voters?

Hmmm both HH and HV tickle my scumdar more than the others at this time.

Ein; how can ou focus pressure if you don't focus on one person at a time?

[Porkens]

You're jumping on anyone you can to save yourself.

[Porkens]

....ohh jee! let's completely switch topics so one of my scum buddies doesn't get hammered.

This better be good

FOS Head_Honcho

So you're certain that A: he's scum and B: one of either Santos or I are scum?

[Porkens]

The Santos wagon looks awfully scummy now:
Porkens (15), VP Baltar (18), jammer (25), Col.Cathart (30), Head_Honcho (31)
And with VP out of the picture that just leaves:
Porkens, jammer, Col. Cathart, and Head_Honcho.

I assume at least one of those is scum (if not 2). And seeing as CC and HH were the last 2 to vote on him make them the most suspicious in my books. The last thing we need right now is another mislynch. I'm glad that I was correct in my assumptions of Santos being town, but saddened that he was mislynched :/.

CC and HH could have hammered ME, no?

[Porkens]

I've played like crap; I won't deny it. However, I defy you to point out any non-lurker related scumtells.

[Porkens]

You realize that I didn't bring it up yesterday, right? The meta was what gave me doubt in the first place, but I didn't think it was a good point to argue his towniness. I wasn't even necessarily convinced he was a townie at that point, I just thought he was less scummy than Chia since his play had been pretty consistent under pressure. I brought up the meta in retrospect because I was being told there was no way I could have called him as a townie unless I had extra knowledge, so I provided the meta as part of my process towards that, which it was.

This sounds really round-about and evasive to me.

vote; head honcho

fine with this lynch.

[Porkens]

I'm fine with lynching HH; and this "gambit" by lazers has put him as my #2 suspect. 90% of the time, in my experience "traps" are sprung by scum.

[Porkens]

I'm being scummy on purpose, so I won't get nightkilled.

[Porkens]

I don't get why you agreed to IC if you're gonna be like this

I'm not sure what you mean by "like this".

[Porkens]

I'm the cop, and I have an innocent report.

[Porkens]

If you are really a cop, then you're gonna be NKed anyway, and we will know at least one innocent for day 3.

How certain are you that I'll be NKd?

[Porkens]

Porkens lurking and now stating he is "scummy on purpose" makes him a good lynch target. If I had to connect a partner, it would be HH. Then again there could be some bussing involved, as you mentioned Ein earlier as possible Porkens partner.

What is this possible bussing your talking about? Which direction is it going?

EBWOP. Dang, I forgot the possible roleblocker. But that would mean we have a doctor too. That means day 3 will be either big day of role revealing, or huge mafia shenanigan (One claiming cop, and one claiming doc)

Well, this seems genuine to me, at least for now.

I was just apologizing for being a dick, I thought he was just being aloof, I hadn't really considered him meaning the thing about not getting nightkilled having serious application.

Cathart's right to be skeptical though, and this claim is effectively impossible to verify at this point in the game.

So Porkens, now that the cat's out of the bag and you don't have to be 'scummy on purpose' anymore, want to post some of your thoughts?

No worries bro, I earned it. And yes.

[Porkens]

wow, well, that's about as transparent as you can get. Jammer for scum.

unvote; vote Jammer]/b]

[Porkens]

You never voted for me before I claimed cop. I'm dubious as to why

that

puts me over the top on your scumdar.

unvote, vote Jammer

[Porkens]

What points?! The lurking? I've explained that.

[Porkens]

Look; I've talked about my suspects (currently you), I'm fairly sure I'm right on the money. You never voted me till I claimed cop, probably because you wanted to keep a scummy player around till lylo. You've been giving me every benefit of the doubt in the universe until I claimed a power role, now you are HOT to lynch me, to get an easy lynch on a PR.

[Porkens]

Not gunna happen yet.

[Porkens]

Mm. If we lynch Porkens today and he flips scum, it doesn't matter who his innocent was. If he flips town, his innocent may die tonight. I'm not sure if it really matters.

The point is that if you don't lynch me, you have the opportunity to have 2-3 confirmned innocents tomorrow. Or 2 innocents and a scum.

If you're going to hammer me, give me some warning. I'll tell you who my innocent is before I'm hammered.

[Porkens]

Chiarosicada's town. You know who I think the scum are. go ahaid and hammer.

[Porkens]

:headdesk: What, exactly, would you like to know? I'm not trying to be evasive here, I just don't know what information you could want that I haven't given.

[Porkens]

A point of interest, though; if I

were

scum, and there

was

a real cop out there, this would be a very bad time to counter-claim. (just for future reference)

IC out.

[Porkens]

I don't mind misslynching today, especially when I wasn't out as cop. anyone lynched takes us to night. a scum is gravy, but a town makes it that much easier for me to find a mafioso.

I'd have been fine with ANYONE's lynch other than my own or of my innocents.

[Porkens]

I'm quite certain that Porkens is scum as-of-now. But that could change if he posted more on his thoughts and on his "innocent".

Porkens is my main suspect right now. Even when he's this close to lynch he still isn't posting anything over one sentence. I'd like to hear how he feels on EACH player and of course who his innocent is.

Ill get you a pbpa this weekend.

[Porkens]

Have re-read up to page six. Really questioning why I got all warm and fuzzy over lazers.

jammer:

Get's right into the game with

some questions. Could be genuine conversation-

starters or scumhunting, but on retrospect look

more like Capt. Danning.

Hurleys_Van (replaces Cartza):

Wierd

chansaw defence of Lazerz.

Einlanzers:

votes for jammer even after

extensive pro-town behavior (this was the root of

my origional vote on Lazers). Reacts extremely

defensive and OMGUS -ly to Jammer's attack, but

says

nothing

about Clara's vote.

Continuous Appeals to emotion. Bizzare vote on

jonnydelawelsh.

Head_Honcho^ (replaces Lupo El Loco):

Lupo

votes for jammer with genuine, at least genuine

looking, questions lingering. Argues against

Lazers ATO being a scum-tell. Attacks jammer for

asking questions.

Col.Cathart (replaces Claramata^):

Attacks Lazers for the right reasons, but doesn't

initialy vote for him. Only after being

encouraged by VP Baltar does he vote. Agrees

with the negative effects of appeals to emotion,

could be bussing but maybe not.

pg 6

unvote, vote Lazerz

for now

[Porkens]

annnd this is why i dont post content.

[Porkens]

Questioning someone's line of thinking is fine, but when I've done nothing this whole game but post pure opinion, and been crucified for not posting facts, and then, having posted facts AND opinions (they are obviously there in my pbpa), to be crucified for that as well; my god.

Actually, cancel that tantrum. There are two people in this game that

know

I'm the cop. I'm thinking that they are Lazerz and Jammer.

Lazers, what "great deal" of information will we learn from my lynch? After I'm dead, and so is my innocent, how will the town be better off?

With my vote; like I said; after re-reading Lazers through the first 6 pages; I can't believe I ever took my vote off him. My vote now isn't original, it's more of correcting a mistake

[Porkens]

I think you're scum and want to lynch you.

[Porkens]

Porkens, kinda funny you have a Ein/jammer pair though up now. You think it is likely I tried to bus my "partner" starting at page 1?

WIFOM.

Capt. Danning? Who is Capt. Danning?

Leading the town, being the super hero, scumming it in secret.

[Porkens]

my apologies, it's been an incredibly busy week.

Basically, I don't expect that my read on Lazers is going to change, honestly. I was the one that let him off the hook when he claimed, and now I feel that was a mistake. He hasn't done anything to redeem his early behavior, he's just sunk into the background.

[Porkens]

but he definantly smells of someone squirming to stay alive.

Is this a scum tell?

[Porkens]

If I WASN'T getting lynched, it wouldn't be a bad idea to counterclaim.

[Porkens]

I still think Porkens is the best candidate. The only issue I'm confused on is if Porkens is scum why he would say that Chia is town (if Chia really is town). I guess we will see :/.

What guesses can you make about this?


And as to my question in 571?

[Porkens]

Well, we are getting reletively close to deadline. I feel pretty confident in Lazer's swinging. But HV would be fine too.

If I've provided an inno, that's an easy target for the scum. I'd suggest protecting me if there is a doc, but that goes without saying. in any case.

[Porkens]

With that, I've heard no explaination, when at the time Porkens became the main lynch target for this day, he kept playing the same. Why didn't he stop the forced claim?


I would like to hear him answer for this as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Look at it this way: I was ignoring the game, fully knowing that I was accruing scum points, in order to survive the night. I was heartbroken that I got an innocent report. I came out becase I knew I had dug my hole too deep to recover with any expediency. It's obvious that the scum are Ein and Jammer or Hurley's at this point. so obvious that I'm not worried about being around or getting any other cop reports.

[Porkens]

I thought it was reduntant to investigate lazers. He'll get himself hung one way or another without a cop report. I went for a less obv. scum and was totally dissapointed.

[Porkens]

I was wrong to believe his claim I think. It's all appeals to emotion on a level inconsistent with sincerity.

[Porkens]

unvote; vote: HV

[Porkens]

Fun game guys, I hope my poor strategy didn't make it too hard