Newbie 792--Mafia Island ~ Mafia win!

[Darkstrike_11]

/confirm

I'm liking the island theme!

[Darkstrike_11]

Hey khelvaster can you give macronaso, wickedestjr and mitey mouse a prod

or a modprod

after all you are the proderator

[Darkstrike_11]

He's only ever made one post, the one to join this match. Perhaps replace?

[Darkstrike_11]

For the record, I find random voting to be intolerable. I know there has been at least one game where people began by asking others questions rather than inanely random-voting, but I'm too lazy to look it up and link to it right now. I very well may policy-vote anyone who random-votes.

That’s interesting. I think that random votes are a good way to see early tells, but asking questions instead sounds more fun and a better way to get the conversation rolling!

Darkstrike_11, do you like having town roles or scum roles more?

As for this, I have only ever played meatworld games, and in those it’s almost always more fun to be the scum. In these games I should imagine that it’s fun to play scum, since you know exactly what’s gong on and you can see all the townies accuse each other and laugh. There’s so many more chances at manipulation. Then again, I find the whole investigative part of town roles fun, paranoid searching of posts for anything slightly scummy.

So I will say I think I would prefer scum roles, but I’m not sure yet. I wanted to be scum this game

Sorry to be boring, but can I ask you the same question Thesp? As our IC, you must have played quite a few games. What’s your preference?

Also, I noticed that Mitey Mouse and Wickedestjr both confirmed late, but on the same day. Maybe they are scum who were talking for ages to sort out their strategy, then both confirmed when they were ready?

Or maybe they got prodded and both responded…who knows?

[Darkstrike_11]

vote WickedestJr

because of the earlier thing I mentioned about the late confirmation possibly being due to scum talking tactics. Convince me otherwise!

[Darkstrike_11]

I've probably played somewhere shy of 50 face-to-face games. I know when I'm scum in those, I have to resist giggling more. If you get the chance to play in real life, it can be really awesome (with the correct crowd).

True dat. Face to face mafia is sooooo much better than forum mafia!

Darkstrike, are you playing connect the dots, without dots?

nope cos that would be drawing lines on an empty piece of paper. Don't be silly.

@Darkstrike_11 - I don't really understand how talking about our tactics would cause us to confirm after everybody else and in the same day. I didn't think mafia could even talk to eachother during the day, and even if they did I'm sure they wouldn't spend the whole day talking to each other instead of confirming to the game they were talking to each other about. Does that make sense?

No. As I'm sure you know, mafia can talk via a secret thread before confirmation. Once they have confirmed, they can't talk until night. Thus a late confirmation would give you a long time to talk tactics before your mafia-mafia communication ends.

We could all massclaim instead? lulz I'm open to whatever gets this game moving.

what would that achieve?

[Darkstrike_11]

@Darkstrike_11 - I was not aware that mafia had that privelige, but even if they did, there is no knowing when they would end their conversation. Maybe they wouldn't talk to each other at all before the game. Then they could suspect the last people to confirm. But however, knowing this, citizens might suspect the people that were first to confirm for this reason. Knowing this, the mafia might be last to confirm on purpose. Have you heard of WIFOM? This is a great example.

hehehe oh WIFOM, WIFOM, why the fuck do people keep talking about WIFOM. I know of it, but it annoys me to think about it. Well, it doesnt HELP to think of it when trying to catch scum. I should imagine that Mafia members LOVE to talk about WIFOM, because it is an excuse which has no response. It usually ends for me in an estimation of the player's intelligence, and whether they would actually be clever enough to do something WIFOMy.

As I said before, I'm not entirely sure about this set of evidence. I was half hoping for someone else to tell me that I was talking rubbish, thankyou tracker. It's just convenient that the two of you were late to confirm, then did so relatively quickly. What was interesting was that I almost gave you an excuse when I first posted this idea, that you could have responded to the prod. You haven't said that, only that you were late to come to the game. That's all I know about this.

Anyway, I'm trying to convey that I'm unhappy with our current pace, and open to whatever will get us to a faster clip.

I would love the game to be faster as well. I'd love to be on here while people constantly post to distract me from the spiders procreating on top of my desk. Ewww...

However, I wouldn't want to do something which would ruin the game. What I'm trying to say is that patience is a virtue, and we shouldn't be quick to do something stupid or mislynch just to move the game along. Unless you want to?

I think that it would be interesting to find out how many games (if any) we have all played. Could everyone please answer that?

This is my second ever forum game. I'm currently in an open game called Sickening Pimplicity, which is on day one. Check it out, its quite interesting.

A question for all players: Why does the spider on my desk get more action than me? Your answers will be carefully examined for scumtells.

nah sillyness aside, how about everyone posts a FOS? It's not a vote, but it gives everyone something to think about. It will almost definately generate discussion. My FOS is on Wickedestjr, cos I'm already voting for him and have given my reasons.

[Darkstrike_11]

1. Spiders are cool. You should put up a book or something to give them some privacy. They probably get more action than you because you have more refined tastes. Quality over quantity right? Right? No? Oh.

ouch. I felt that burn like a pissing drunk with Gonorrhea.

What I'm trying to say is that patience is a virtue, and we shouldn't be quick to do something stupid or mislynch just to move the game along. Unless you want to?

That was a hugely scummy statement. I'm asking for more content and you insinuate I'm wanting to mislynch someone.

You weren’t asking for more content, you were asking for a quicker pace to the proceedings. They are different. A quicker pace would help the scum, allowing rapid and ill informed lynches. That we do not like.

However I was wrong to insinuate that you wanted to mislynch. I was just saying that you shouldn’t ask for a more rapid pace, you turned it into an attack. Bit defensive aren’t we. The Unless you want to bit was half jokey anyway, I was hardly expecting you to say “Yes please darks I want to lynch a townie!”

And finally, it is NOT a scummy statement. It is a cynical, possibly paranoid statement, as I assumed the worst about you. It was also as you have proved a misinformed statement. However it wasn't scummy per se.

Vote: Darkstrike_11

Oh my god! You suck wickedestjr!

now if only there was an acronym to say that quicker....

Nah I understand why you feel that way. I zoned in on you because I thought you were scum. You feel attacked so you voted me, fair enough. I’m pretty willing to withdraw my vote anyway since the more I think about it the less I think you were talking scum tactics. That was the only piece of evidence I had anyway.

Unvote

I guess my FOS idea went out of the window then…

[Darkstrike_11]

votecount please mod!

If I count correctly, that puts wicked at -1. Nobody hammer until we have a bit more conclusive evidence.

@Boxman why vote wicked to put him at -1?

@Papa Zito any reason for your vote on wicked?

@ Tracker, yeah the last sentence was contradictory. It was supposed to be for light humour.

@ Wicked, do you have any defence to the wagon, ie why should we believe you are town?

If someone should hammer without further discussion, they will face my displeasure.

[Darkstrike_11]

heh good call.

regardless, why did you vote for him boxman?

[Darkstrike_11]

yeah fair enough. Why do you think he deserved pressure? Do you think he is scum?

[Darkstrike_11]

Hmm this game is intereting despite the post slowdown at the weekend. I have a few town reads, but not as many scum reads. On that basis, question time!

Papa Zito

How did you get your hunch about wicked? Was it his general posts? his voting patterns? I don't like "hunches" because they base too much on the tone of posts rather than the content and also get the user out of having to explain his vote.
Final question for you, are there any players who you think are definately town?

Boxman

You have been fairly quiet. Prior to page 4 you haven't really done that much scumhunting. Anyways who do you think are most likely scum? What were your reasons for voting wicked? I know you already said to pressure him, which is good, but why pick him rather then anyone else?

Indigo Heron

Indigo, same as box?

Wait...you thought I took offence? It was a valid strategy, and I applaud that, but I curse the rashness of the townie who voted along with the two of you...

I don't really understand what this is talking about. Is this about something meta-ey? Just so I understand

also why are you lurking? The game would be richer for your contribution!
Who deserves your FOS currently and why?

[Darkstrike_11]

having looked back it appears that Wickedestjr was not actually at L-1. I'm really sorry for getting all worked up. It was genuinely my mistake.

@ indigo I agree with you about Papa Zito, he is where my current suspicions lie.

that sounds like a very interesting game! What was the name of it? I'd like to have a read.

Also your policy of keeping out of the discussion is very anti town. Not scummy per se, but certainly anti town.

[Darkstrike_11]

to be fair to Zito, he has refuted the claims of speeding up the game. I'm fairly sure of his intent, which wasn't scummy. Anti town, perhaps, but not downright scummy. His reaction to my post on the subject on the other hand is a completely different matter. My read on him is neutral at the moment.

Someone I'd really like to talk to is tracker, though i'm not sure what's going on with him..is he getting replaced? does he have access on his holiday? who knows.

as for wickedestjr, his vote isn't particularly scummy, he was just trying to pressurise Zito into explaining what he has already done. My main conundrum over wicked is whether or not to believe his post stating a position of ignorance as to the abilities of the mafia to converse. Whether or not that post is believeable is the current test of whether wicked is scum, for me.

@Papa Zito, I understand your hunches thing, so far I have so very little to go on. Like I said, plenty of town reads but very few scum reads. And thankyou for answering my questions.

[Darkstrike_11]

Thesp - Townish read. Problem is I'm completely outclassed here.

exactly. I don't know what to do with Thesp. Sure I get a townie vibe from him, but he's so experienced that I doubt I would ever get a scummy vibe from him :/

darn.

oh and btw, I have 2 big exams on thursday, so will be LA until thursday night. Then I reckon I'll do a bit of a PBPA on everyone, try and sort out my opinions a bit better.

[Darkstrike_11]

Right a short post before I go back to cramming again. Tomorrow I will return with a suitable analysis, as was promised.

Until then, I think I am going to

vote Indigoheron

simply because active lurking is just pure anti town. I hope he makes a good case about exactly how his lurking is helping the town. I expect it to be convincing.

seeya tomorrow!

[Darkstrike_11]

Okay I am very much aware that this is a ridiculously long post. I went through each player and did a PBPA, to structure my thoughts. I thought I might as well post it up since it helps to see people’s actions better. If you don’t want to wade through it all though, read the bits in between for what I think of each person


THESP

post number:
1. Dislikes random voting, asks a load of questions
2. Prefers town roles, asks questions of Mitey and Indigo
3. Texas Post
4. Asks some more questions, says he has suspicions but doesn’t share
5. Likes my presence pseudo accuses wicked and boxman
6. asks for responses from wicked, asks Box for more content, expresses wish for less general content before a lynch (a response to the 20 pages comment)
7. asks for Agar’s suspicions
8. Doesn’t like the wicked-papa banter, wants to lynch Agar instead
9. Makes a post which qualifies post 5 as not being serious…
10. Doesn’t think wicked and box are town, thinks agar is scum
11. grue post
12. says he hasn’t said his reasoning for suspecting Agar
13. Says he doesn’t want to convince, but to gauge reactions, subscribes to the idea that people should keep information secret.
14. flattered post

His post rate is decent. I have said already how I think he’s experienced enough to be completely fooling me, but I get a town read. The call to withhold information and keep things to himself while asking questions strikes me as pro town. I think a scum would be trying to be more persuasive and obvious about suspecting people. Being quiet about suspicions while posting often makes me think town.

Darks’ view: TOWN

----------------------------------------------------

AGAR

1. banter post
2. finds random voting strange
3. explains hes used to clues
4. doesn’t want to random vote, wants to gauge opinion
5. says its too early to tell who is scum (on page 4)
6. suspects Papa Zito, for the speeding up comments

Seems to be very cautious. Isn’t posting that much, not sure if he’s lurking or not. The cautious thing seems like trying to blend in with the crowd, but I would say its much more likely a result of this style of gameplay as opposed to the version he’s used to, in which the town gets a bit more help. Therefore I don’t fault him for being tentative. I don’t really know one way or the other, and don’t have that much to go on, but this far I would be leaning o so slightly towards the scum side.

Darks’ view: NEUTRAL

---------------------------------------------------------

PAPA ZITO

1. votes Thesp in a joke vote
2. banter post
3. debates about question asking
4. says we need a random bandwagon to get anywhere
5. still wants the random bandwagon, votes tracker to encourage posting
6. explains random voting
7. banter post
8. banter post
9. attacks Boxman’s joke claim
10. attacks mitey for “coaching”
11. says he has no reads, suggests a massclaim
12. says hes unhappy with the pace
13. follows up the attack on mitey
14. explains his attack
15. says hes upset wit hthe joke post response
16. attacks me for attacking him for the speeding him up thing
17. more talk about coaching
18. starts to agree with mitey
19. retorts the speeding up attack, FOSs Agar
20. lots of reponses to questions
21. votes wickedestjr
22. claims the vote was a hunch
23. explains the hunch, says he isn’t sure about the game, says thesp is town
24. refutes the new attack for his speed comments from Indigo
25. does a PBPA on wicked and now says he is happy with his vote
26. more attacking wicked
27. questions thesp
28. more questioning, then develops into banter
29. does a player by player, says he has nothing on Agar so votes him
30. complains at wicked for bussing
31. refutes yet another attack on his speed comments, this time from Mitey


A very active player. Lots to say. He moves his vote around quite a lot. He seems to fluctuate between being sure in his votes to not really having any strong views about anyone. His PBPA was enough to convince him his vote was worthy on wicked, but he then changed to Agar after having nothing to accuse him with. This strikes me almost as if his earlier strong convictions were an attempt to draw other members onto a wagon. So far he has attacked wicked and Agar, possibly targeting the newer players? His commitment to the game is quite pro town, and he is good at pressuring people, but overall I would say I get a scummy-ish vibe from him. The thing is, I agree that there isn’t a huge amount to go on, but his attacks and sometime sureness in his votes seems contradictory. However I wouldn’t be surprised if he is an enthusiastic town member. Therefore:

Darks’ Read: NEUTRAL

---------------------------------------------

MITEY MOUSE

1. RV: wicked
2. says that not random voting led him to be jumped upon, which he didn’t want
3. banter
4. banter, though a comment construed by Papa as coaching
5. attacks a comment made by wicked, asks for game count
6. refutes the idea of a mass claim
7. refutes claim of coaching
8. more coaching discussion
9. refutes my scumtalk accusation
10. banter
11. banter/explanation
12. says that he doesn’t have a read on Papa
13. banter
14. tells tracker to give people the benefit of the doubt


Now I only just realised this, but mitey has contributed so very little to the game! Sure she has posted a lot, but hasn’t actually added to the game. She hasn’t expressed her suspicions, hasn’t done any scumhunting, and made a comment expressing her wish not to get jumped on ie a wish to avoid attention. Lurking is one thing, but appearing to be a part of the game while not actually participating or showing your hand is scummy. The fact that I didn’t realise this until doing a PBPA shows how effective this is. When there is a lack of decent evidence or scumtells, I would tend to suspect those who haven’t been participating (properly contributing to the game) as much. Thus my thoughts are scummy for Mitey.

Darks’ view: SCUM

----------------------------------------

INDIGO HERON

1. says he’s not scum, random votes tracker
2. says he’s VLA
3. banter about a previous game
4. says that the speed comment from Papa irks him, admits to active lurking
5. says it seems scummy, but waits for papa to defend himself


yep. That is it. He admits that he isn’t really contributing, but staying in the shadows. The only signs of life are when he tries to jump upon the speed comment from Papa which he successfully refuted a while back. Again, the lack of contribution annoys me. ACTIVE LURKING IS NOT PRO TOWN! It doesn’t help at all! The posts he DOES make seem to be very sheep-like. Following the crowd. Basically I don’t trust him. If he’s not posting, why should we assume he is town? In a game where there few scum tells, I would be quick to accuse those who have contributed the least. Perhaps you are responsible for the lack of scumtells. I want him to post more, and if he doesn’t we should lynch him simply because his actions are anti town. Tell us why you are worthy of keeping alive, Indigo, and we will consider it!

Darks’ view: SCUM

--------------------------------------

BOXMAN

1. Jokes that thesp is scum with him
2. other game banter
3. explains the joke post
4. banter
5. asks some questions, and casually places a L-2 vote on wicked
6. unvotes when I thought it was the L-1
7. says he wanted to pressurise wicked
8. slightly attacks wicked
9. says he randomly picked wicked to attack, and says he hasn’t seen any scumminess
10. sympathises with Thesp’s info holding back
11. FOSs Indigo for the lurkage

Again, seems to not be contributing as much. The vote for wicked seemed casual, but it was a fairly influential vote, the third on the wagon, then quickly retreated. He also comments on the lack of scummy activity. Most of his comments and actions are copies of other people’s. It’s not a scummy thing, perhaps an easily-swayed thing, but he does seem eager to blend in. My thoughts are incomplete on him.

Darks’ view: NEUTRAL

-------------------------------------

WICKEDESTJR

1. random votes indigo, asks tracker only a question
2. Votes papa zito for his wish for a random bandwagon
3. unvotes papa
4. claims not to know about mafia talking, explains his random vote, makes a VERY weird comment to tracker about him being lynched due to lack of experience.
5. again claims not to know about mafia chat threads
6. votes me for the comment on Papa’s speed post
7. plays down the earlier weird comment
8. says he won’t unvote me
9. asks for the reasons why people voted for him
10. tries to defend what little people have on him
11. votes Papa again, this time for “changing his mind” over the speed thing
12. says there is not much to give opinions about
13. more talk against papa
14. tells people why he is voting papa again
15. starts to talk about Agar’s scumminess, just after thesp first preofesses it
16. FOSs Agar and Boxman for going with the flow ( first really perceptive comment)
17. asks tracker a question

Wow. If wicked was more experienced, I would have lynched this guy ages ago. There is a lot of potentially scummy activity here, namely the quickness to vote people, the constant reiterations and seemingly “play to the crowd” which a scum would do to draw in votes. He also follows the crowd a bit as far as suspicion goes. The not knowing about mafia chat upsets me, mostly because I believe him. I don’t think he knew about it, therefore I doubt he is scum. I think most of his posts could be misinformed townie posts quite easily. The problem with this verdict is that it is noticeable flawed. I am basing it upon one factor, the mafia chat thing. Thus letting that influence how I see his other posts. The fact that some of the more suspicious members have accused him at various points backs up the idea of wickedtown. (sounds like a nice lace :p) therefore in my mind:

Darks’ view: TOWN (though very very subject to change, terms and conditions apply.)

---------------------------------------

TRACKER

1. asks a few questions
2. FOSs me for the comment on Papa’s speed comment
3. asks some other questions
4. isn’t convinced by my defence, says he will return
5. calls for more clarification over voting intentions
6. answers some questions, complains for lack of content
7. denies wicked the option to write a list of suspected people
8. makes a list, everyone neutral or town apart from me and wicked


Really not sure how to read this guy. The whole vacation thing is fair enough, so there isn’t that much to read, but I’m thinking probably scum, simply because he hasn’t done anything particularly scummy. He has suspected me throughout, and kept to his convictions despite other people changing their views, which I weirdly see as a town read when I manage to get over the natural scum read I get from him voting me, a town. He is truly neutral in my mind.

Darks’ view: NEUTRAL

--------------------------------------------

Well I found that enlightening for me. Turns out I have more scummier reads than I thought. Mitey was a surprise to me but that helped me realise her scumminess

The person I think is most scummy is without a doubt Indigoheron. I guess I’ll

confirm vote

. He really needs to post an explanation for why he thinks lurking is a good idea. Right now, there aren’t a huge amount of scumtells about, and with so little to read, I assume that the scum are hiding, thus Mitey and Indigo are my current suspicions.


Ok! I know that was incredibly boring, so to lighten it up here are 5 funny things that happened in the 4 hours it took to write this post:

1. I watched 3 episodes of family guy!
2. A spider crawled onto my desk, thinking it was the same one from before, I tried to give it a High 5 and may have broken it’s limb.
3. I threw a load of my history revision notes out of the window in celebration of finishing my last history exam, then was told by my parents to go and pick them all up.
4. I successfully introduced my sister to mafia, and she says she’s gonna play it with her friends at school tomorrow
5. There wasn’t a 5th funny thing

Gonna go rest my typing fingers in a bucket of ice.

[Darkstrike_11]

You can't MEAN to be anti town. That's against the rules of not playing to win. The thing is in this game we need to rely on the town playing in a pro town manner, and that's what you're not doing.

[Darkstrike_11]

unvote

'ang about, 'ang about. What exactly are you claiming?

[quote="Indigo Heron" Well...I was hoping that I could stay incognito a little longer...but hey, at least scum now know that at least 50% of the set-ups are valid. [/quote]

also could you explain this? not in an attacky way, I think this is game technique I'm not understanding. explain pwetty pwease

[Darkstrike_11]

damn...I always mess up when quickreplying.

Mod: can you fix that quote for me?

[Darkstrike_11]

I agree with Zito... huge fail about the mafia's knowledge of game setups. I also agree that if you are clever enough to leave the breadcrumbs, you could be clever enough to do that as scum. You invoke stoofers, but which 2 are you suspecting?

Hey Darkstrike! Nice work on that big post! You have been doing your homework! Now, I don't agree entirely on your assessment though. For example, you have me as Scum and I know I'm not. Now, you have me and several others as not contributing much to the game but, of these several others it's just myself and IH that you think are Scum. Why is this? Now, not that I'm breadcrumbing or hinting in any way but, there are other reasons to not show your hand too much in this game. Think on that!

This post interests me. It didn't at the time, but it interests me now.

[Darkstrike_11]

the talk of breadcrumbing, the hinting at a power role being a good reason to stay out of it...

there could be a few explanations, but it looks like either you coached Indigo, or (more likely) he read this and thought that it is a good excuse.

[Darkstrike_11]

Your outrage is justified, I heavily expect to be very wrong. But if you were both scum, you recognised that both of you were the ones I suspect, and it's subtle enough to come under your earlier stated terms of how quiet your in game coaching would be.

I still think the latter option of my explanations is more likey (by a long way) and neither reflects well on indigo.

Mitey, what is your opinion on the claim?

[Darkstrike_11]

On reflection, my earlier accusations of Mitey as coaching are completely wrong. I was just being too paranoid.

There have been no counter-claims, so I'm starting to believe Indigo's claim. This will be very interesting!

My current suspicion is boxman. You are really eager to vote for whoever is the accusee of the moment. I don't think you've ever voted for someone who someone else hadn't voted for.

You voted wicked after 2 votes, you voted Indigo once he started taking pressure, and you now voted Agar since popular opinion is against him. You rather look like a serial bandwagoneer.

It seems like you are trying to blend in to the game, and I think it is rather scummy.

therefore

Vote Boxman

[Darkstrike_11]

Your post seems important, but it really isn't. It feels as if you're out to get townie points by posting this 'long' message.

QFT. Seeing as point 3 we can generally assume is garbage, all your post tells us is that either Indigo is scum or he is the doctor. Which we already knew. I'm starting to come around to the idea of agarscum.

By the way if Indigo is lying in his claim, and there is an actual cop out there, now would be the time to counter claim Indigo.

[Darkstrike_11]

tracker stop trying to distract us, nobody cares about that running gag. Apart from Pope Zit of course :p

and wicked, being of no use to us is NO reason to lynch a cop! I know you're trying to say that there's no huge benefit to keeping him alive, but that's just wrong. It's our JOB to keep town alive. And it's increasingly looking like Indigo's claim was kosher. I, for one, am not going to lynch a claimed cop on the basis that he wouldn't be a help to us. Would you lynch someone on the basis that they don't help you because they're vanilla and have no power role? no.

[Darkstrike_11]

lol sorry, it's just the mod frequently misspells papa zito's name, I think he meant to do it as a joke the last couple of times. I thought that Indigo was being sarcastic in asking for it, I know I certainly was in my last post.

Your vote is currently the only one on Indigo.

I completely disagree with what you say. You said "shouldn't he be lynched anyway?" er NO! even if he is the cop, we shouldn't lynch him in the 50% chance that he is scum! That is the same situation as lynching a townie because he might be scum.

I could vote for you using the terms you used. I could say, well Tracker could be scum pretending to be town. Also, if he is town then he has no night role, so he is "neutralised". Therefore we should lynch him just in case. That is really bad logic.

If there is a chance, we should lynch scum tonight. Lynching a claimed cop is exactly what the scum would want! Seeing as the scum know if Indigo is telling the truth or not, they will kill him tonight if he is not one of them. It's too much of a risk for them NOT to NK a claimed cop.

Also since the claim Indigo has posted more, more than you for one, so that argument can't really be used insofar as "lynching him because he wont help us anyway" since he is now more active.

Also, I say 50% because the third option is a no go. There is no way a townie with half a brain would fake claim to save his own skin and lose the game for the town. It's a faux pas and I know an experienced player like Indigo wouldn't do it.

I do agree with the call for Thesp. Where are our experienced players? Thesp and Mitey, if you can hear us, please come to our aid

[Darkstrike_11]

That votecount is wrong, this is what I make the real votecount to be:

Agar(3): Thesp, Papa Zito, Boxman
Wickedestjr(1): Mitey Mouse
Boxman (1): Darkstrike_11

[Darkstrike_11]

I'm not hugely set. I think he's the scummiest, but am willing to be changed!

I agree with your big three, although I tend to favour AGar/Boxman as the scum pair.

[Darkstrike_11]

*huff* just cos I can't do tables

nah I joke. Very illuminating Papa Ziti, I like the sound of your pasta house.

For me the last minute unvote was the biggest scumtell for me. I'm loathe to point out that he should have known the vote count since I had the wrong vote count at the time However it seems like he hadn't seen the earlier pressure that he was adding to on wicked's vote, he didn't know how many votes there were already on him, but voted him anyway. He tried to claim that the vote was random afterwards, but it seems like he was following the town and trying to nab a cheeky lynch at that point.

Also the "following thing".

Good PBPA, ziti. Enogh to win your vote? Or is agar still more scummy for you?

Indigo, as the cop you work with evidence. Who is the scummiest in your books?

[Darkstrike_11]

Good PBPA, ziti. Enogh to win your vote? Or is agar still more scummy for you?

Yeah, I voted in the image.

I'm seeing Box > AGar at the moment. They both have done nil to help the town but Box's follow-the-leader and his oops vote make him more scummy in my eyes.

1. Boxman
2. AGar
3. Wickedestjr
4. MiteyMouse

Like I said, too many suspects. But I'd really like to see Box lynched today.

I like this post. I totally agree. Also I cant see the image, it turns up as a red cross, but I'm sure its funny. I agre with your 4 scum as well.

I'd like Agar and Wicked's views on Boxman as soon as possible please!

[Darkstrike_11]

perhaps because you make posts like that which shows how much you care if you are suspected or not. The scum care a lot about how they are seen.

But don't be downheartened mitey, I think you are neutral/scum, and I'm not thnking that you are scummy enough to deserve a vote, at least not today.

[Darkstrike_11]

unvote

this wicked/agar/boxman triumvirate thing is incredibly interesting. I was suspicious when they both jumped on the wagon. I'm going to look into the three of them after my FINAL EXAM WOOP tomorrow.

until then

vote Wickedestjr

I'm putting the earlier suspicious activity les and less down to newby swayedness, he is eager to jump on any wagon and refuses to call agar scum.

[Darkstrike_11]

and also how he seems to know that there are more than one power roles, which right now only the mafia will know...

[Darkstrike_11]

I'd just like to say I'm here, I've analysed the situation, I've written a post, I'm waiting for Wicked's claim before I post it though.

and I agree with Thesp, this is the most fun game Ive played of Mafia yet!

[Darkstrike_11]

Right I made a PBPA but then didnt save it on word and acidentally deleted it

The point is on reflection I get a much scummier vibe from Boxman. He casually placed a vote on wicked, and this is the scummiest thing he did. I believe Boxman is a better lynch righ now

unvote Wicked. Vote Boxman

tbh I'd be happy with either, but Box's lynch is probably a better call. Especially since I still think on some level that wicked could be easily swayed town.

[Darkstrike_11]

THAT VOTECOUNT IS WRONG!

sort it out mod! I voted Box a few posts ago!

[Darkstrike_11]

In fact, on counting it, Indigo's vote on Boxman was the hammer! I have pmed the mod, not sure what procedure is now...

someone else count to check I havent miscounted again :s

[Darkstrike_11]

I am not the cop

[Darkstrike_11]

^^^ I agree

Indigo, was your result guilty or innocent? Don't say who you investigated.

[Darkstrike_11]

I've made a bit of a match analysis, which I will post after Agar's post. I reckon I know who I want to lynch today, based on previous relationships with Boxman, but I'm still waiting for Agar to make his claim/non claim...

And Hi Yaw!

[Darkstrike_11]

Its from the new Halo 3 expansion pack. It represents the Superintendant, an artificial intelligence which controls the maintanance of the city your are in. Also the game developers used it in viral advertising on their forums, it would appear just saying "keep it clean" and whip all the halo fanboys into a frenzy.

I love the character because its a "dumb" AI which can only say a few phrases, but subtly controls your path and helps you throughout the game. Like saying "bridge tolls accepted" when you try to blow up a bridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaBmrcdHv40 watch that video if you are interested, it sort of gives the flavour of the character, if you look hard enough.

What about yourself? Your avatar is cool, I remember you said it was from the "sandman" series? I'm not familiar with it

[Darkstrike_11]

Right, thanks for that Agar, I thought it would be a good idea to post all the votes that people have made, and I have added any particular references to Boxman (or tracker) in it. Also there is a vote count at the end of each day.

PAGE ONE

Papa Zito -> Thesp
Mitey Mouse -> Wickedestjr
IH -> Tracker
Boxman says that Thesp is his scumbuddy in a jokey way. ( I love how later Papa Zito accuses Box of doing this deliberately to stick a finger to the town, which was actually right on the money. Still unlikely that Thesp actually IS his scumbuddy though)

Thesp (1) [Papa Zito]
Wickedestjr (1) [Mitey Mouse]
Tracker (1) [IH]

PAGE TWO

Wickedestjr -> IH
Papa Zito X
Wickedestjr -> Papa Zito
Papa Zito -> Tracker
DS -> Wicked
Wicked X
Papa Zito X

Wickedestjr (2) [Mitey Mouse, DS]
Tracker (1) [IH]

PAGE THREE

(wahey)
Wickedestjr -> DS
DS X

Wickedestjr (1) [Mitey Mouse]
Tracker (1) [IH]
DS (1) [Wickedestjr]

PAGE FOUR

Papa Zito -> Wicked
Boxman -> Wicked
(Boxman also FOSs Agar)
I call him out, Boxman unvotes Wicked hurriedly
Boxman X
Box claims he was trying to get a reaction.
Box gets a bit attacky on Wicked

Wickedestjr (2) [Mitey Mouse, Papa Zito]
Tracker (1) [IH]
DS (1) [Wickedestjr]

PAGE FIVE

Wicked -> Papa Zito

Wickedestjr (2) [Mitey Mouse, Papa Zito]
Tracker (1) [IH]
Papa Zito (1) [Wickedestjr]

PAGE SIX

Boxman says that Thesp doesn’t have to say why he thinks Agar is scum
Papa Zito -> Agar
DS -> IndigoHeron

Wickedestjr (1) [Mitey Mouse]
Tracker (1) [IH]
Papa Zito (1) [Wickedestjr]
Agar (1) [Papa Zito]
Indigo Heron (1) [DS]

PAGE SEVEN

Boxman FOSs Indigo after my vote
Boxman -> Indigo
Thesp -> Agar
Wicked -> Indigo
Agar -> Papa Zito
IH X

Wickedestjr (1) [Mitey Mouse]
Tracker (1) [IH]
Agar (2) [Papa Zito, Thesp]
Indigo Heron (3) [DS, Boxman, Wickedestjr]
Papa Zito (1) [Agar]

PAGE EIGHT

Papa Zito -> Indigo
Indigo claims cop
DS X
Papa Zito -> Agar
Agar X
Box says he can’t lynch a cop X
Box -> Agar

Wickedestjr (1) [Mitey Mouse]
Tracker (1) [IH]
Agar (3) [Thesp, Papa Zito, Boxman]
Indigo Heron (1) [Wickedestjr]

PAGE NINE

DS -> Boxman
Wicked X
Tracker -> Indigo

Wickedestjr (1) [Mitey Mouse]
Tracker (1) [IH]
Agar (3) [Thesp, Papa Zito, Boxman]
Indigo Heron (1) [Tracker]
Boxman (1) [DS]

PAGE TEN

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that AGar is the most suspicious at this point. He's lurking a lot, and I don't see any reason to go voting for anyone else.

Pressure starts to build on Box. Interestingly, he then makes a post strongly claiming that Agar is the scummiest person, without any real evidence apart from that he is “lurking a lot” and that he sees “nobody else good to vote for”, having already posted his vote on him previously. When the pressure is starting on him, and the pressure is already high on Agar, it seems unlikely that this is a bus.

Because no one else is really suspicious to me.

You were the only other suspicious person in my eyes, and you turned out to be the cop.

Papa Zito, darkstrike_11, and Thesp have all been useful in some way today.

Wickedest_jr, tracker, and Mitey Mouse haven't done anything to raise my suspicions.

A very interesting post. Somebody said this post would haunt me, Papa and Thesp, but I think this post typifies the mood at the time as far as more townish people goes. What is interesting is how he claims that Wicked and mitey havent done anything to rasie suspicions. Mitey I could understand, but Wicked has done a LOT of scummy stuff, and would be an easy target for a scummy player.

Indigo -> Wicked
Thesp -> Miteymouse
Papa Zito -> Boxman
Tracker X

Wickedestjr (2) [Mitey Mouse, Indigoheron]
Agar (1) [Boxman]
Boxman (2) [DS, Papa Zito]
Mitey Mouse (1) [Thesp]

PAGE ELEVEN

Agar-> Boxman
Wicked -> Boxman
Wicked X. Wicked asks boxman NOT to claim...
DS -> Wicked
Tracker -> Wicked
Wicked -> Boxman (his defence is that if he and boxman were scumpartners, he wouldnt have voted box in the first place, despite the fact that he was 4th on the wagon)

Wickedestjr (4) [Mitey Mouse, Indigoheron, DS, Tracker]
Agar (1) [Boxman]
Boxman (3) [Papa Zito, Agar, Wickedestjr]
Mitey Mouse (1) [Thesp]

Wow. We were L-1 on wicked, and Boxman DIDN’T hammer! This is interesting!

PAGE TWELVE

DS -> Boxman
IndigoHeron -> Boxman HAMMER TIME!

Wickedestjr (2) [Mitey Mouse, Tracker]
Agar (1) [Boxman]
Boxman (5) [Papa Zito, Agar, Wickedestjr, DS, IH]
Mitey Mouse (1) [Thesp]

PAGE THIRTEEN

Boxman is lynched, Tracker is Nked


Well thats it. One thing I can say is this: it's almost certain that Agar is not scum. It just doesn't make sense for him to be a buddy of Boxman's. The biggest thing is the fact that he was still pushing for an Agar lynch when Agar was at L-2. I think we can safely discount Agar as scum.

Miteymouse, however is completely different. She voted Wickedestjr throughout, and never voted Box, keeping a low profile throughout. Methinks scummy.

Wickedestjr is also a possible candidate, but I would wager a huge amount that he was who IH investigated.

Then again, there is the possibility that IH is scum. He and tracker had a bit of a rivalry throughout the game, often voting each other. However he hammered Box, and I'm sure he is the cop.

What does confuse me is tracker as a target. For me he was neutral. It pains me to say but his death helped the town, since I wasn't sure he was town. If I was in the remaining scum's shoes I'd have gone for thesp or papa or me. Also, why didnt they NK a (fairly) confirmed cop?! That would have been a fairly basic decision. The only reason I can think of is the fact that we all had IH's death as an almost certainty. I reckon the scum didnt kill IH and killed the guy who had opposed him in an attempt to cast suspicion on IH. It does nay work for me!

Therefore I reckon its between Wicked and Mitey for the remaining scum. Of course I admit it COULD be IH, but I find it unlikely.

therefore

vote: MiteyMouse

[Darkstrike_11]

Wow wicked. That analysis would have been fantastic back on page 2 when it happened. None of it is that relevant.

I said I wanted to be scum because I did. End of. No hidden meaning.

[Darkstrike_11]

Wicked, I remember that defence. It was not a good wifom defence. Wifom is rarely a good defence. Claiming that one type of wifom defence is better than another is just absurd.

Wicked is just making life more difficult for himself today. I still find it interesting that we had a L-1 wagon on him and boxman didn't hammer it. Though I suppose that could go either way, he could be afraid to hammer a townie, or he could have not wanted to lynch his partner.

I'd quite like to hear other people's thoughts on that piece of evidence..

[Darkstrike_11]

Wickedestjr (4) [Mitey Mouse, Indigoheron, DS, Tracker]
Agar (1) [Boxman]
Boxman (3) [Papa Zito, Agar, Wickedestjr]
Mitey Mouse (1) [Thesp]

This, wicked. Why wouldn't boxman hammer in this situation? This is what I want thoughts on.

I'm fine with a wicked lynch today. I'd prefer a Mitey lynch, but if either of them flips townie I'm pretty sure that the other one wouldn't on the following day. I can't see anyone other than Mitey or Wicked being the remaining scum.

[Darkstrike_11]

right now I'd like to hear from IH. Which wagon do you support? still gunning for wicked?

[Darkstrike_11]

In fact currently IH has the deciding vote! Its up to youuuu!

[Darkstrike_11]

looks like my wager may have been right on the money.

I'm very much a proponent of a long daytime, but in my mind we have a chance to win here. Maybe its because I can't see anyone other than mitey or wicked being scum. If the rest of the day will be taken up by wicked and mitey locked in a little back and forth, I'd rather hear IH's investigation result and lynch the other one.

correct me if i'm wrong guys, but surely thats the best way forward?

[Darkstrike_11]

I'm similarly itching for a hammer.

A game mechanics question I have (after all I am a newbie and this is a newbie game) Why doesn't Indigo share his cop investigation? It's seriously driving me mad that he might have the info we need to actually WIN this game but instead we choose to sit back and TALK for ages. I'm sure there's a good reason for him keeping it secret, but I can't see how keeping it private helps the town...

someone please enlighten me.

[Darkstrike_11]

I don't understand why an inexperienced scum player would nk tracker. I can understand why an experienced player would do it. Thesp is probably the most experienced player in this game. If he nk'd papa zito and darkstrike, then it would make him look bad. Thesp, Papa Zito, and Darkstrike are probably the only players that would benefit from killing an inexperienced player. I don't think that Papa Zito is scum, or, like he said, he bussed his partner pretty badly. Which makes me believe that Darkstrike or Thesp could be scum. However, it could also be IH, because getting rid of experienced players would make him look bad, because experienced players are threats, and so is a cop.

I have reconsidered it and decided that Mitey may not be the best lynch at the moment.

Unvote: Mitey

However, I still think Mitey is a player to keep an eye on. I would like to hear what other's think about my analysis in this post.

I think the scum is one of these four;

Thesp
Darkstrike
Mitey Mouse
Indigo Heron

I am not so sure about darkstrike though.

In response to this, I don't think experience came into the decision. I'm not sure if you are calling tracker experienced or not, but I disagree with killing an experienced player making Thesp look bad. I think I'm right in saying the more certain the townie, the safer the night kill, not the less experienced, the safer. Thats why tracker's death surprised me.

In response to your accusation and also general musings on the game so far:

If you look at the voting patterns, it was me and Papa Zito who pretty much brought the town round to a boxman lynch. Everyone was keen to lynch Agar, I voted Box first, which caused papa to investigate with his BYT (big yella table). If you read pages -10ish, it just wouldn't make sense for either of us to make the play we did if we were the buddy. When there was a wagon building on agar in the aftermath of the indigo claim, why would we bring box, the buddy, to attention? That, for me, is the biggest reason why I think Papa is town, and is the reason why you should know I'm town as well.

So me and papa are green. That leaves 5 others. Agar is certainly green. I have already stated why its pretty much impossible for him to be scum when boxman tried so desperately to get agar lynched instead of himself. unless it was a ridonkulously selfish bus, Agar is green.

Which leaves wicked, thesp, mitey and IH.

I have no reason not to trust Indigo's claim. There has been no counter claim. Its also important to note the scum's choice of nightkill. This one had me stumped. When there is a pretty much confirmed cop, why not kill him? For me, there can be only two reasons:

1. IH is scum. Could still happen. Obviously he doesn't kill himself, so he lives on. An interesting post was when i pressured him by saying he has the deciding vote, and he seemed to be stressed with that. He later said he already knows who to vote for. Confusing.

2. IH is the cop. In this case, the scum would have not killed IH in the hope of casting suspicion on him and getting the town to lynch the cop. For this strategy, Tracker makes a good NK. He and IH had a bit of a face off earlier in the game, they both accused each other. Thus he could be good to frame IH.

personally I believe the second. If IH was scum, there are far better NKs. Tracker's death only really goes with the second posibility.

Which brings me to the fab 3, Thesp, Mitey and Wicked.

Recently, I have come around to the idea that Thesp could be the scum. I intend on investigating him thoroughly. I have already put forward my cases on wicked and mitey.

There is also the thing that if I was the cop, wicked would be my investigatee. I'm guessing that he was investigated and turned out green. However he had some dodgy interactions with box, so am not so sure.

DS's scum list (from least to most)

Agar
Papa Zito
IndigoHeron
Thesp
Wickedestjr
Miteymouse

I'm still happy with my vote on mitey. I'm pretty sure either she or wicked is scum, and if mitey flipped town (unlikely) it would bring some interesting points to the table about thesp, my number 3 suspect.

[Darkstrike_11]

who fancies dropping the winning hammer?

[Darkstrike_11]

thank christ for that! Now we can get back into this game! Still don't understand why we couldn't have done that at the beginning of the day, but hey.

It seems, however, that my earlier analysis still holds up. Having looked back through the thread with regards to mitey being town, it doesn't give up much. I still think agar and papa zito are green due to their interactions with boxman. I'm pretty certain that Indigo is the cop, and of course as papa has pointed out even if IH is scum, we can still rely on the investigation result. Mitey is green.

Thesp and Wicked are the ones I'm looking at now. Thesp is hard to read...I might make up a big yella table

[Darkstrike_11]

woops

unvote

should have done that earlier.

*investigating thesp*

[Darkstrike_11]

I am also a bit suspicious of Darkstrike. It looks like he is trying not to make any body angry with these comments;

So I will say I think I would prefer scum roles, but

I’m not sure yet

. I wanted to be scum this game

This just doesn't sit well with me. It looks like a very safe answer. I think the "I'm not sure yet" part was just added in case somebody didn't like his answer.

or in case I haven't played a game as scum yet.

we shouldn't be quick to do something stupid or mislynch just to move the game along. Unless you want to?

???

Don't be pedantic. I already defended that. The last part of the sentence was meant in a heavily sarcastic way. Do you really think I'm saying "unless you want to...oh you do yay lets quicklynch"

Also make a point when you quote. Its not good to just make a post and not put an opinion on it.

What does confuse me is tracker as a target. For me he was neutral.

It pains me

to say but his death helped the town

Wicked - So your saying tracker's death helped the town? That is really suspicious.

Darkstrike - Look back at my post. I said that it pained me to say it.

Wicked - Oh oops, never mind.


Does anybody else find this strange?

stop playing to the crowd. When I say it pains me, i meant it to not disrespect tracker's contriution to the game. And why is saying that tracker's death helped the town scummy? It doesn't seem like it to me. His death genuinely benefitted the town, at least from my perspective. Tracker was a neutral/scum read in my mind, his death eradicated a neutral player, keeping more probtown players in the game. And I'm not the one going back to that post, you are, it would be a really stupid defence to use "hey wicked look how it pains me to see tracker killed"

what WOULD be scummy was if someone 'congratulated' the scum ie "wow we are in a pickle now that tracker is dead". But thats not what I am doing.

Therefore in conclusion your points aren't that valid. Come on, there are better and more solid things to base arguments around. Voting patterns for instance, rather than my idiom and turn of phrase. Your arguments are about the way I post, not on the content as much.

Haing said that, I'm welcoming the investigation. Nobody should sit easy in this game.


Something I'm thinking of, is that tracker's death is in my mind a ploy for us to suspect IndigoHeron. The scum must have looked at who would be most incriminating to IH to die. I consider this to be a fairly complex ploy. I would suspect Thesp over wicked in doing this. I'd quite like to hear other people's opinions on that because I'm not sure.

[Darkstrike_11]

That's L-1 wicked.

Give me a reason why I shouldn't drop the hammer.

[Darkstrike_11]

shh papa I'm pressurizing!!

In actuality, thesp is very hard to read. It's true that he has only ever voted for Agar and mitey, both of whom are confirmed/probably town. That doesn't look good. What is interesting though is that in both cases he wasn't following the crowd. He was the first to bring attention to Agar, and him voting mitey day one was against the run of play. Although the votes are scummy, the timing of them aren't. I'm still not sure.

in truth, I can't see anyone other than wicked or thesp being red. Throughout the game wicked has seemed more scummy, but right now I am very torn. Part of me thinks that wicked is a good lynch regardless because he is so ambiguous. The interactions with boxman also tend not to favour him that much...

What
Would
Papa Zito
Do?

[Darkstrike_11]

vote wickedestjr

In case the deadline hits, he's the one I think is most scummy. I don't think all the reasoning has to be explained again.

[Darkstrike_11]

@ Thesp: would you support a wicked lynch?

[Darkstrike_11]

Darks' Day 2 Final Scumlist:

1. Wickedestjr
2. Thesp
3. Papa Zito
4. IndigoHeron
5. Agar
6. MiteyMouse

(although I can't really see anyone but 1 or 2 being the remaining scum)

[Darkstrike_11]

Thesp, can I have your opinion on a wickedestjr lynch?

[Darkstrike_11]

I'm a bit confused, to be honest. I was heavily expecting either mitey or indigo to be dead now. There could be a couple of explanations for this.

1. We have the set up with the cop AND doc, so the scum picked a target he thought wouldn't be protected. I would have thought that a doc would always protect a cop over a confirmed townie, but hey.

2. We have the set up with just a cop, but the scum want us to think that there is a doc and roleblocker about, as Mitey has postulated previously. Personally I don't think that is that likely, seeing as it doesnt give the scum a particular advantage if we think there is a different set up. Also this "plan" of the scum's is quite complex. Its more complicated than I would have been thinking if I were scum, so I don't think this is the case.

3. Indigo is lying. He's the scum and is sitting back relaxing with no heat on him. Unlikely. The only thing in evidence for this possibility is that he's a claimed cop and hasn't been killed two nights in a row! The other thing is that if he were the scum having investigated the dead zito would be perfect for him. However his investigation of mitey was not a good scum play, as we were about to lynch. I can't help but think a scum would have let it happen. Therefore I don't really think this is likely either.

So 1 is the most likely. If that is the case, I'm not sure whether I approve of a doc claim. Should the doc claim and we DONT get the scum today, the remaining scum will neutralise both power roles in the night (kill the doc, block the cop or vice versa). Then again, should the doc claim I would be 100% certain of who the scum is, since there are only two people remaining in this game who can be scum from my point of view. I need to think about this a bit more.

Also I know who I want to lynch today, since of the two I previously mentioned only one makes sense. However I want to hear other people's views before I go and vote.

[Darkstrike_11]

how do you mean neutralise...by roleblocking? that is odd that that hasn't happened actually. I'm now possibly more confused.

Right now I'm freaked out by mitey asking Indigo what her own role is :s

anything to say/claim agar?

[Darkstrike_11]

ahhhhhh

thats really clever mitey! Pity it didn't work!

I'm not so sure about the mass claim. The fact that Indigo hasn't been roleblocked leads me to ponder whether we are talking about the doc/cop/roleblock set up or not.

although a mass claim would help clear it up... therefore I support a mass claim. Though I'd like to hear from Agar before we proceed with it.

[Darkstrike_11]

I'm a businessman on this crazy island
ie vanilla townie

agar, your turn!

[Darkstrike_11]

you can cut the tension in this thread with a knife.

On another note, Mitey why did you ask for Thesp before Agar?

[Darkstrike_11]

OK, so there's no doc. This is guaranteed since its not in the towns interests to lie. Of course we've already found that Mitey is innocent whatever, so the scum lies in Agar, Thesp or Indigo.

Agar, I just don't think so. Again with the day 1 boxman flailing. Just doesn't make sense to me.

So its Thesp or Indigo.

The case for Indigo is there, mainly in the choices of nightkill. The fact that he hasn't been killed two nights in a row is strange, especially if the scum knows that there isn't a doc present. However revealing mitey to be innocent was a pro town move. Of course this could be to appear pro town to reinforce his cop claim. In fact, having stated that he would only reveal his investigation target when the target was coming under fire, and then to reveal mitey when she was the first to come under fire, is a bit odd.

And at last we have the moment I had been waiting for, the moment when Thesp turns against our claimed cop. For a while I've been thinking that the nightkills could just as much be the scum trying to facilitate a mislynch of Indigo. Something I would think Thesp is very well capable of doing.

I'm just not sure which one to go for. Both are possibly scum, but I don't have any hard evidence. I can see strong reasons for either of them being scum, but nothing conclusive. I think I need to read them in iso, and think about which one I shall place my vote on.

[Darkstrike_11]

also I'd like to hear Indigo's take on all of this. Him having claimed cop is no longer a reason to take a step back from this game

[Darkstrike_11]

Thesp or Indigo....thesp or indigo...

Mitey, I'd really like to hear your opinion, both as a more experienced player and as the only confirmed town.

[Darkstrike_11]

oh and Indigo, no we are not at LyLo. We could mislynch today and still have time to lynch the final scum. The question there is who is the nightkill. In this case I would certainly expect Mitey to be killed, leaving the green Agar and me with the last scum. I actually like that situation as a last resort. Won't stop me trying to get the right one out of you and Thesp.

Oh and btw Indigo, who would you vote for? You haven't placed a vote in eons!

[Darkstrike_11]

If Indigo is the scum, he has played it very well. He made a sucessful townie invest yesterday, which would be good from a scum point of view to increase a pro town read, then a convenient invest of a dead townie last night. No doubt if we were to leave him alive tonight he would conveniently find a guilty invest for a LyLo day 4.

This decision is so wifomy it hurts.

Keeping Mitey alive N2 is something I'm trying to think about. There was no doctor, so what would the benefit be to Indigo-scum or Thesp-scum in keeping Mitey here? The only possible reason I could think of would be if for some reason the scum wanted us to think that there was a doctor present. Either could do that from their knowledges of the game set up.

I have come to a sort of decision, but it is by no means final. Thinking forward, Indigo scum could wreak considerably less havok in my mind on a possible day 4. If we left Thesp alive, we would have his word only, which could be persuasive. However Indigo would presumably have a night "investigation" and quite frankly I'd like to see what would happen in that situation. He could pull out a guilty invest, or clarify a clear townie in oreder to appeal to him. I think Indigo would be easier to take out on day four, therefore I

vote: Thesp

I realise that of course a Day 4 is not what we want, and we should look to taking out the scum today, but I just can't make the decision between the two.

With my vote down, I'd again like to hear from MiteyMouse and Agar. Who are your biggest suspicions guys?

[Darkstrike_11]

@ Thesp: if wanting a mass claim is as standard as people say it is, then it doesnt particularly confirm you as town. Plus a mass claim allows a lot of movement for a scum depending on where they have to claim. So I don't think this evidence means that much.

@ Mitey: Because of Day 1. Agar was about to be lynched, and BOxman had only one vote on him. However when people started looking carefully at box, he started flailing and got more and more desperate to lynch agar. It doesnt seem like a bus to me, so from that I concluded Agar to be town. Correct me if I'm wrong but I just don't see agar-scum

[Darkstrike_11]

I'm sorry for my lack of contribution, having my house to myself has led to several alcohol filled evenings...

in addition, I've never been at this stage of the game and am quite out of my depth with the whole massclaim/set up thing. I was certain of either Indigo or Thesp as the scum, but I'm not so sure now. Thesp made a good post before about how the night kills suggest a newer player. Now I'm wondering about Agar. I think I was too ready to use the day one box interaction to paint him green and make life easier.

I'd just like to say, I'm not the doctor. I would have claimed as such if I was. I was expecting Agar to be the doc to be honest with his level of contribution earlier in the game.

needless to say,

unvote

I'm not sure what to do again.

Me and mitey seem to have a differing opinion on the nightkills. If I were the scum I would have killed IH Night one. THat makes me think that keeping him alive must be part of a clever plan, same with mitey. However MM thinks its more a newbie mistake. Again not sure what to think. Are we looking at veteran scheming or rookie mistakes?

Also is it wrong to be looking forward to a potential LyLo day 4? I can't help but think things will be hugely in the towns favour then.

[Darkstrike_11]

Oh my Dark...you were so worth waiting for. Your most recent post may perhaps be the most interesting this game!

So, you believe that Agar is the doctor and yet you say that if you were Scum, you would have taken out IH on Night 1. Now this is paraphrased but, this is so interesting to me.

I did not say that I think Agar is the doctor, I said I THOUGHT he was. i.e. before the mass claim. Thats why I nominated him to claim, and why I questioned you for asking thesp before him. I had no reason to suspect there to be a doc after the massclaim until other people (read: you) started calling for the doc to come forward again!

First off, how could you have taken out IH on Night 1? One would naturally assume that the doctor would be protecting him...that is, after all, the doctor's job. Protect the Townies and it would have been his obligation to protect the claimed Cop. Not to do so would have been silly.

The mass claim just proved that there is no doctor. Thinking yourself into Thesp-scum's shoes, how could you have NOT killed the claimed cop. Of course, this is assuming that Indigo is not the scum.

Secondly, you have insinuated with this statement that you believe IH. Why else, would you want to take him out on Night 1? So all the Thesp vs IH that you have been doing seems like a big show to me.

I'd believe IH in Thesp-scum's shoes. Of course IH-scum's NK would be different. However I'm looking at Thesp-scum's choices from an odd perspective. How could he have not killed both IH and Mitey? It makes no sense! The earlier post did not infer the conditional of thinking in terms of Thesp-scum's motives. For that I apologise.

Now, probably the most interesting to me is that you still believe that there is a doctor even after the mass claim. Why is this? I think with the last 2 points you are leaking PIS (perfect information syndrome).

People started asking for the doc to come forward! AFTER a massclaim! Suffice to say, I was confused! I admit that it seems like PIS, but only when I was looking at THesp-scum's POV.

Of course the Scum would have known on Day 1, after IH claimed, what the set up was. With you still believing there is a doctor, I believe that you are a roleblocker.

Me and mitey seem to have a differing opinion on the nightkills. If I were the scum I would have killed IH Night one. THat makes me think that keeping him alive must be part of a clever plan, same with mitey. However MM thinks its more a newbie mistake. Again not sure what to think. Are we looking at veteran scheming or rookie mistakes?

You are the only one to have fallen into my little trap here. You see, we all like to defend our actions and like to think that we have made good decisions. I have dropped something along the lines of saying that the Scum is a newbie, in every post I made today...waiting for the Scum to get angry and defend himself. I'm sorry to have been sneaky with this and will make my appologies at the after party. You not only have defended the Scum but, called him clever. This is pretty telling to me.

Oh god how I hate traps... If you weren't confirmed town...

I didn't defend the scum. You are seeing what you want to. I was pondering which one it was, not postulating the former of the options. Just to clarify, clever in this context means "something I don't understand but there must be a reason for it" By not understanding the motives behind the peculiar nightkills, I deem them clever. Maybe I was too quick to do so.

Rushed posts which aren't fully explained are being my bane of late. This is something I will write about in the after party (which sounds fun btw, will there be food?)

Vote: Darkstrike

On another note, all this banter about IH's claim. Again I'm undecided, but I think that it was a bold move. Someone said at the time that claiming cop was the correct move for scum at that point. It seems like it. I agree that it was safer to claim cop than to claim vanilla in his position. Also, its hard to explain why IH is alive if he isn't the cop. More thinking required.

Mitey, a question for you. Obviosuly by your attack you don't think that there is a doc (despite calling for one to come forward) However why then do you think that IH and you have been kept alive? Can you think of a reason for the NKs?

[Darkstrike_11]

Dark...I didn't think that there was a Doctor after the claim. You are putting words into my mouth. I said once that if there was a Doctor that they needed to come forward right away but, that was after many others including yourself had mentioned that they still thought there was a doctor.

nor did I say you did. Stop putting words in

my

mouth. I just said thats where I started that line of thinking. From others calls for the doc to come forward.

You may not have little my little trap but, your response to it is telling to me. You see, I work in the Social Services field and know from my work how easily the human ego gets bruised.

My response? again seeing what you want! I replyed with being uncertain whether the NKs were clever or silly and you deem that to be me reassuring my battered scum ego? That aint gravy baby. I know that from my work as a waiter. :p

Now, all else aside, your post still says to me that you believe IH's claim. So, why all the theatrics with the Thesp vs IH earlier? On top of that, you believe me and AGar...you trust an awful lot of people to have unvoted the only person that you don't believe at this point.

I just explained this! I was basing that part of my post on the conditional of thinking through thesp scum vision! My intention is the opposite of what you think! Theatrics? THEATRICS? please. I believe you and agar. It leaves me with two. Possibly three if my belief in agar is wavering.

As to the issue of me understanding the Scum decisions in this game. The short answer is that I don't get them at all. Leaving a confirmed Town and a potential Cop alive doesn't make any sense to me at all...and taking Papa out is just odd to me. I did not believe that he was Town and he could have been a lynch candidate pretty easily. Well, at least easier than me.

Oh and the after party...that is always my favourite part of games! I'm going on a cookie baking extravaganza today...maybe I'll bring some for you to the after party!

I agrizzle. yay cookies! I love you Mitey!

[Darkstrike_11]

we're getting so mixed up. I never said that you thought there was a doctor, just that you asked a hypothetical one to come forward, and that influenced me. If we argue any more about this I'll have an aneurism.

Why thankyou. Although I copied the "theatrics" theatrics from the master. Remember someone shouting:

Coaching? COACHING!?

heheheee cookies

[Darkstrike_11]

Right, just to let you guys know that I'm on holiday starting tomorrow, and so will have pretty much 0 acess until the 8th. This annoys me because this game is getting to an interesting stage. Indigo is L-1, I'm getting some heat at last.

I'd be tempted to hammer Indigo if it wasn't for me being VLA, because I'd like to see the flip and the nightkill etc. Instead I will leave myself unvoting, I'll see you guys in a week! Don't lynch anyone I wouldn't lynch!

[Darkstrike_11]

hello! I'm back, on the 8th as promised.
and wow, has this game got interesting! The discussion has picked up well, but not in any way to help me make my choice. Of course, I still can't see anyone other than Thesp or Indigo being the scum, so as soon as I have unpacked I will try and have a look.

oh and when is the deadline?

[Darkstrike_11]

y halo thar
what did I miss? :p

I'm trying to work out the vote count, and I think it goes a little something like this:

IndigoHeron (2) Thesp, AGar
Darkstrike_11 (1) MiteyMouse
Thesp (1) IndigoHeron

Not voting: Darkstrike_11

amirite?

[Darkstrike_11]

I've decided.

For most of the game I've wanted to believe that Indigo is telling the truth due to the massive help a cop is to the town. However I simply can't explain him being kept alive for two days in a row. I've tended to go for complicated solutions in mafia before, but I think occams razor is the best way to go here. He hasn't been killed, and therefore IndigoHeron is most likely to be scum. I have suspected Thesp, but the night kills just dont make sense for Thesp-scum.

Hence

vote IndigoHeron

[Darkstrike_11]

Well, I have to say I was saddened by Indigo's flip. However, I'm fairly sure of who I reckon is the scum. A lot of things would make sense if this person is the scum. Will wait for more responses

[Darkstrike_11]

I'm not.

For your information, this is my first and only newbie game I've been in. I've been in other games on the site though. Both ended badly.

Answer this Thesp, why do you want to know how many games we've played? The last time someone asked this in a game I was in it was a very dastardly ploy.

Although you are right, there aren't really any responses I need so I'm gonna have to come out of my comfort zone.

I am strongly of the opinion that you are the scum, thesp. I don't suppose I need to say again my convictions of Agar being town, due to the way Boxman tried to get rid of him.

However you weren't present on the box wagon and instead voted for a (since) confirmed townie the whole day while giving very little reason for it. The other thing that niggles me is the banter post ages ago when Boxman joked that you were his scumpartner. maybe, just maybe...

I haven't been in a final day before, so I don't know what procedure is. However I am going to

vote Thesp

"cos it just makes sense"

[Darkstrike_11]

excellent post, Thesp.

unvote

I apologise. I understand the potential of one vote equalling a L-1. I guess I will FOS you instead. This late in the game a vote is too powerful to show your feelings.

Your post is good, based on the following conditional. You are an IC. Thus you are bound by the rules of ICs in newbie games to portray an accurate representation of game etiquette and, more importantly, game theory (not the economics form :p)

This means that you can't lie to us about game setups or likely tactics. Am I correct?

If this is so its done a lot to win my trust. However I could still understand the night kills as being situationally suitable. One such explanation could be keeping IH alive to cause the very mislynch that just happened. Then again, In my mind the risk in keeping a cop alive wouldn't outweigh the reward in getting him mislynched. So maybe it doesn't make sense.

I can't help but be left with two explanations for the two players who could be scum. Either the weird nightkills were a complex strategy by Thesp, in which he used bad night choices to accuse the newer players and get them mislynched; or they were by Agar who possibly didn't know the setup or made simply bad choices. I think I'm still favouring the former.

I'm skimming back through, though, and a post catches my eye:

I agree with Zito... huge fail about the mafia's knowledge of game setups. I also agree that if you are clever enough to leave the breadcrumbs, you could be clever enough to do that as scum. You invoke stoofers, but which 2 are you suspecting?

Was this in reference to F11?

Yes it was, or at least, you can assume I knew the setups. I guess all I have is my word, but while in the newbie queue I read other newbie games substantially, in any case I have played this game under full knowledge of potential game setups.

Instead, you jumped into a vote on me. What responses were you waiting for?

Any responses from you or (mainly) Agar which might validate my stance in suspecting you. As I have said, I'm in over my head as far as this day goes and am unsure how to play it.

anything to contribute agar?

[Darkstrike_11]

right I'm back! I'm really sorry for the lack of action, but it was A level results day on thursday, so I was busy wetting myself and preparing for failure beforehand and celebrating afterwards cos I GOT THREE As!!! I'M GOIN TO UNI!!!

ahem. Anyway that explains my absence, and I apologise for it.

This day is really interesting. I was always keen to see what an impact the existence of a small group of players would have on the game.

I do find Darkstrike_11's initial vote on Boxman post quite interesting. (This is the one he did just after Indigo Heron's claim, but before he unvoted and switched to wickedestjr.) Here it is:

On reflection, my earlier accusations of Mitey as coaching are completely wrong. I was just being too paranoid.

There have been no counter-claims, so I'm starting to believe Indigo's claim. This will be very interesting!

My current suspicion is boxman. You are really eager to vote for whoever is the accusee of the moment. I don't think you've ever voted for someone who someone else hadn't voted for.

You voted wicked after 2 votes, you voted Indigo once he started taking pressure, and you now voted Agar since popular opinion is against him. You rather look like a serial bandwagoneer.

It seems like you are trying to blend in to the game, and I think it is rather scummy.

therefore Vote Boxman

What I find most interesting about this vote is that he's addressing the

votee

rather than everyone else. In every other vote post, he's trying to convince the rest of the players that his votee is scum. Here, when he's the first to vote for Boxman, it looks like he's coaching Boxman on what is making him look scummy more than trying to convince everyone else that Boxman is the best lynch. I don't think Darkstrike_11 was trying to convince other players that Boxman is scum, here

I think he's trying to convince Boxman that he looks like scum

.

I’m seriously flattered. This is fairly complex stuff, and to think that I would know how to go about coaching a player in thread compliments me. However I don’t really have any defence for this, because I can’t truly remember why I changed my writing style for this

Furthermore, in Darkstrike_11's subsequent posts, he doesn't push the Boxman wagon, instead he pushes the AGar wagon, and indicates he's willing to join other wagons:

I'm not hugely set. I think he's the scummiest, but am willing to be changed!

Darkstrike_11 doesn't push the Boxman wagon anymore or touch it at all unless specifically asked. That is, until wickedestjr puts Boxman at L-1, at which point we get this post from Darkstrike_11:

unvote

this wicked/agar/boxman triumvirate thing is incredibly interesting. I was suspicious when they both jumped on the wagon. I'm going to look into the three of them after my FINAL EXAM WOOP tomorrow.

until then vote Wickedestjr I'm putting the earlier suspicious activity les and less down to newby swayedness, he is eager to jump on any wagon and refuses to call agar scum.

I don’t like this at all, Thesp. You say I push the Agar wagon when I did nothing of the sort. My posts after my vote on Agar consisted of ONE post putting down a bit of analysis from Agar, then defending Indigo from Wicked’s poor logic. I was disagreeing with Agar’s analysis, and if you read the post it heardly appears as if I’m pushing the wagon.

QFT. Seeing as point 3 we can generally assume is garbage, all your post tells us is that either Indigo is scum or he is the doctor. Which we already knew. I'm starting to come around to the idea of agarscum.

By the way if Indigo is lying in his claim, and there is an actual cop out there, now would be the time to counter claim Indigo.

Here I am just starting to find Agar suspicios, I am hardly pushing others to join the wagon. This looks like you are misrepresenting my actions to paint me as scum, Thesp, and me no likey.

I also like how you left out posts with me pushing the boxman wagon:

For me the last minute unvote was the biggest scumtell for me. I'm loathe to point out that he should have known the vote count since I had the wrong vote count at the time However it seems like he hadn't seen the earlier pressure that he was adding to on wicked's vote, he didn't know how many votes there were already on him, but voted him anyway. He tried to claim that the vote was random afterwards, but it seems like he was following the town and trying to nab a cheeky lynch at that point.

Also the "following thing".

Good PBPA, ziti. Enogh to win your vote? Or is agar still more scummy for you?

This is an example of e trying to get votes for boxman. Compare this to the post in which you say I am pushing the agar wagon and you see quite a difference.

Papa Zito notes this as well:

Wickedestjr's panicked unvote looks like scum trying not to get his partner killed.

Darkstrike_11 responds to the mounting push on Boxman with this:

I'd just like to say I'm here, I've analysed the situation, I've written a post, I'm waiting for Wicked's claim before I post it though.

Wickedestjr then claims townie, which is enough for Darkstrike_11 to return to his vote on Boxman (?):

The point is on reflection I get a much scummier vibe from Boxman. He casually placed a vote on wicked, and this is the scummiest thing he did. I believe Boxman is a better lynch righ now

unvote Wicked. Vote Boxman

tbh I'd be happy with either, but Box's lynch is probably a better call. Especially since I still think on some level that wicked could be easily swayed town.

(Of course, he's simultaneously pushing the other wagon while voting for Boxman.)

I encourage everyone to re-read the Boxman runup, which starts somewhere around page 9. I found it very illuminating, and I know which way I'm leaning (as I'm sure my post here intones).

I thought something like this would happen. I was always wondering what would happen in a 3 player game, and I thought that it would turn out as one player gets assigned as the more townish player, and the other two vote for each other, with the townish one making the decision. Here Agar is the more townish, due to his interactions with boxman.

So Thesp goes for me. And this now confirms his status as the scum. Knowing myself to be town, the attack gives me a huge scum vibe from him. He is an experienced player, and so I would assume him to be accurate in finding who scum are. The fact that hes voting for a townie proves to me that he is the scum.

Something else that caught my eye in reading back through:

And at last we have the moment I had been waiting for, the moment when Thesp turns against our claimed cop.

Why in the world is this something you were waiting for? This looks surprisingly

expectant

to me. This is in the same place that you make cases on both Indigo Heron and I, then state,

I'm just not sure which one to go for. Both are possibly scum, but I don't have any hard evidence. I can see strong reasons for either of them being scum, but nothing conclusive. I think I need to read them in iso, and think about which one I shall place my vote on.

...which looks to me like you're trying to see which way the winds blow, much like your first post today:

Well, I have to say I was saddened by Indigo's flip. However, I'm fairly sure of who I reckon is the scum. A lot of things would make sense if this person is the scum. Will wait for more responses

Thoughts?

I was waiting for it because you are scum and I expected the scum tactic to be to try to paint indigo as scum, in accordance with the nightkills. At that point I was still sure of that being the scum’s motivation, and hence I heavily expected you to make that play at some point. Don’t act so surprised.

I’ll agree my posts are cautious. But that is just my gameplay style. Underconfidence is my biggest weakness in mafia, I have discovered, as I am unable to have courage in my own convictions and tend to want others to clarify what I’m thinking.


Hennyway, Thesp is scum. The lengths he went to paint me as scum confirm this for me. I disagree heavily with how he portrayed me in the run up to Boxman’s lynch, and seems to want to distract us from the fact that I was the first to vote boxman and to start the theory of boxman-scum, whereas all he did was to vote Miteymouse all day, and occasionally put a few VERY noncommittal words into his support of the boxman lynch, presumably for this very occasion so he can say, look at that, I was sort of on board. Not enough to put his scumbuddy in danger, but enough to look all townish when boxman flipped red.

Anyway I thought I was going to be really witty, so I wrote "vote Thesp" in pen on my hand then was going to say "look at my tattoo" and link you to it. Unfortunately my facey b then crashed :p

the upshot of this is that now i have VOTE THESP written on my hand in black marker

anyway,

vote: Thesp

And I agree with thesp, Agar your tattoo is awesome

[Darkstrike_11]

NOOOOOOOOO

dammit! I was consistently wrong in this game and it makes me sadface...

[Darkstrike_11]

yes agar, please explain the night choices

[Darkstrike_11]

Wow....agar....just wow. that was truly amazing. You are without a doubt the mvp in this game! what a play!

I totaly agree as far as the game goes. This was so much fun. I started two other games and found them both incredibly hostile, slow and boring. I was ready to leave the site but this game has motvated me to play another game! What I particularly liked was how everyone was civil in the game, in other games attacks on players have often seemed very personal and rude, but this didn't happen here.

Despite this, I am truly disappointed in how I played in this match, I was by far the worst player for the town. I can't help but think that just by trusting AGar I lost the game for the rest of the town. I definately need more practice at this.

Also, everyone playing this game I have got on with, it was a nice group and hope to play with you all again in the near future!

[Darkstrike_11]

I echo the thanks to khelvaster, the flavour was awesome!

And I would be incredibly up for a rematch, it would be really interesting! It would be interesting to see if people's playstyles changed or not. I don't see why we couldn't just carry on in this thread, "792pt2" or something.

Plus next time we'll know not to think AGar is a confused newbie but a CRIMINAL MASTERMIND. I can't help but think that having played a match with everyone already a town win is more likely. Then again, I hadn't seen enough of players like tracker to have a semi decent meta.

Roll on game 2!

[Darkstrike_11]

yes I believe Khelv is working on it. He's done a thread and is coming up with flavour, if I'm correct!