Newbie 792--Mafia Island ~ Mafia win!

[Wickedestjr]

Confirmed!!! Sorry for being slow to confirm. Nice theme btw.

[Wickedestjr]

Unless there is some wierd twist in this game, I am not scum.

Random Vote: Indigo Heron

tracker are you scum?

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: Papa Zito

I don't think we should have a random bandwagon going on this early in the game.
If you give me a good reason to unvote then I will, but I don't have any better reasons to vote for anyone.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry I misunderstood your post.

Unvote: Papa Zito

tracker please don't forget to answer my question above.

[Wickedestjr]

@Darkstrike_11 - I don't really understand how talking about our tactics would cause us to confirm after everybody else and in the same day. I didn't think mafia could even talk to eachother during the day, and even if they did I'm sure they wouldn't spend the whole day talking to each other instead of confirming to the game they were talking to each other about. Does that make sense?

@Thesp - Why the random vote? Well, the whole point of my first few posts lately has been to make observations about other players and how they react to things. Does that make sense?

@tracker - You say you've only played mafia twice. Not that I think this will happen, but if we were to decide to lynch you because nobody seemed scummy and we knew you were inexperienced, what would you say in reply? What do you mean when you say you still don't know how to play as town?

@Agar - You say you will be abstaining from random voting, so how will you be contributing to this conversation?

[Wickedestjr]

@Darkstrike_11 - I was not aware that mafia had that privelige, but even if they did, there is no knowing when they would end their conversation. Maybe they wouldn't talk to each other at all before the game. Then they could suspect the last people to confirm. But however, knowing this, citizens might suspect the people that were first to confirm for this reason. Knowing this, the mafia might be last to confirm on purpose. Have you heard of WIFOM? This is a great example.

@Thesp - You seem to think that me and Boxman are mafia. Care to give your reasoning?

[Wickedestjr]

As I said before, I'm not entirely sure about this set of evidence. I was half hoping for someone else to tell me that I was talking rubbish, thankyou tracker. It's just convenient that the two of you were late to confirm, then did so relatively quickly. What was interesting was that I almost gave you an excuse when I first posted this idea, that you could have responded to the prod. You haven't said that, only that you were late to come to the game. That's all I know about this.

It could always be a coincidence as to us quickly confirming after getting a prod. Who knows, maybe the timezones we live in are very close. I forgot that I joined this game until I got the prod. I just don't understand why you are suspecting me most out of all the people in this game. Even if I was saving some time before the game discussing tactics, that doesn't mean we will necessarily have our confirmations in the same day.

we shouldn't be quick to do something stupid or mislynch just to move the game along. Unless you want to?

What?!? I don't know what to make of this.

Until you explain that second quote...

Vote: Darkstrike_11

[Wickedestjr]

@tracker - You say you've only played mafia twice. Not that I think this will happen, but if we were to decide to lynch you because nobody seemed scummy and we knew you were inexperienced, what would you say in reply?

This question really bothers me! Why would we look at lynching someone based on experience in a

NEWBIE

game? That would be perhaps, the least Pro Town thing we could possibly do.

Ahem --> "Not that I think this will happen."

It is just a question. I wanted to see what his answer was. I'm making observations.

[Wickedestjr]

@Darkside_11 - Glad we have an understanding, however, I am not unvoting until either you give me a good reason to, or somebody else turns out to be more likely to be scum.

[Wickedestjr]

@Papa Zito - Even if you are voting me to pressure me, can you still please say why you are voting me.

@Thesp - I think that it depends on what kind of player is being voted for or bandwagoned. If it is somebody that is not very experienced with playing mafia then it is common for them to react suspiciously. If they are experienced with playing mafia, then I don't think it is common for them to act suspiciously. It could happen, but I don't think it would be as obvious.

@Boxman - Pretending as if you had voted for me without unvoting my reaction would probably be curiosity as to why you were voting me.

@Darkstrike_11 - Well considering I have no clue why people are voting me, my defense is that I don't think I have done anything scummy.

[Wickedestjr]

Considering I already have votes and I am at L-2, I don't think it is that difficult to imagine. I'm just saying what I would say to the other people that voted for me.

[Wickedestjr]

@Papa Zito - If your vote is just a hunch, then their's really nothing I can do about it.

[Wickedestjr]

Papa Zito said -

We could all massclaim instead? lulz I'm open to whatever gets this game moving.

Huh? I don't think this is funny. I also don't like the idea of mass claiming just to get the game moving. You posted this on page 3, which is kind of early in the game considering the random voting occured a few days prior to this post. I think you could be mafia trying to figure out who the power roles are.

20 was an arbitrary number, but I see your point. And I agree, I doubt we'll need the full 3 weeks. Besides, we wouldn't want you to be sad.

Wow, looks like somebody's just changed their mind.

Unvote
Vote: Papa Zito

The reason I am suddenly voting Papa Zito, was because I was curious as to why you thought he was suspicious, and then I noticed the above posts.

Does anybody else agree that this seems scummy?

[Wickedestjr]

Well, Papa Zito the main reason why I am not giving many oppinions is because I don't really see tanything to give my opinion about. But I did give you my oppinion on why I thought you seemed scummy and earlier I am pretty sure I gave my opinion on Darkstrike_11 as well. Did you not like these opinions?

[Wickedestjr]

I think you could be mafia trying to figure out who the power roles are.

Umm... This is an opinion isn't it?

Also, where has your random bandwagon suggestion been discussed? I do not remember this?

[Wickedestjr]

Oh, now I see where you responded to my previous vote against you. That still doesn't explain why you suddenly say;

"I doubt we'll need the full 3 weeks."

This doesn't seem like it goes with your post where you were eager to get the game moving.

[Wickedestjr]

What makes you suspicious of AGar, I am confused.

@Papa Zito - I understand that the contradiction between those two posts that I pointed out was not the best evidence of me thinking that you were scum, but the massclaim thing is the thing that really bothers me. While their might be people that disagree with this vote, I am voting him because I currently find him the most suspicious.

[Wickedestjr]

So, could you please tell us? If there is a certain reason why you can not tell us, then please say so.

[Wickedestjr]

I understood it completely. And I am not really in any hurry to lynch somebody, because this is day one, and we haven't gotten much information about other players yet. I think that people would seem more trustworthy if they didn't agree with everything that everybody said.

I do think that AGar seems to be just going with the flow which is a little bit scummy, but doesn't deserve my vote.


Just a few random questions to get some more contribution;

AGar - Do you think Thesp is scum?

Mitey Mouse - How suspicious do you think Papa Zito is on a scale of 1 to 10?

Indigo Heron - Who are you most suspicious of? Why?

tracker - Do you think Thesp is scum?

[Wickedestjr]

FoS: AGar and Boxman

They are both going with the flow, and aren't contributing. I don't like this.

[Wickedestjr]

@tracker - You said, or it least I interpreted from your post, that thesp is in the middle of most suspicious people. Who do you find less suspicious and more suspicious?

[Wickedestjr]

@Papa Zito - I'm not trying to seem like anything. I know that I am a townie so I am going to act like normal. The only time I stop asking questions is when I have more important things to talk about, like defenses to votes directed at me, and my suspicions and votes.

@tracker - Well, first you say that you don't like to just hand over who you think is suspicious and not suspicious, then your next post tells us how scummy you think each player is. How come? I don't really understand how telling who you think is suspicious and not suspicious really benefits anybody. If you did not want to tell me, then I am fine with that and you could have just said so.

[Wickedestjr]

And if you don't trust me....tough. If you want to go ahead, so be it. I honestly don't mind being a sacrificial lamb for the influential Day 1.

Okay.

Vote: Indigo Heron

. This quote is really scummy, considering you say that you don't care that we are voting you. I think you are pointing out all of the scummy things that you have been doing to make it look like you are town. I think this is a bad strategy even for mafia. I will return my vote to Popo Zita if you give me a good reason not to be voting you.

[Wickedestjr]

Yes, you admitted that you were lurking and you admitted that you didn't care about us lynching you. This seems like scum behavior if anything.

[Wickedestjr]

@Indigo Heron - Your post may not say completely that you are going to lurk, but that is what it means. If you are not going to post unless somebody asks you a question, then that is scummy. If you haven't been contributing much, yet you post right after I vote for you, that means you are lurking. If you were really town, you'd be contributing to the conversation more.

[Wickedestjr]

Indigo Heron - You have had a tendency to start posting when people begin talking about you. If you are really active enough to keep this conversation going on, then how come you aren't contributing any?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm sorry what is breadcrumbing?

I believe Indigo Heron's role claim for now, but if he was lying, then I don't think that the cop should roleclaim, because we might learn something important about IH's investigation.

@Indigo Heron - During your inspection tonight, please investigate a player that you think is scummy, or else it would be a waste of time, and it would make you look bad.

Unvote

Boxman has been going with the flow quite a bit lately, which does seem kind of strange.

I don't really see any reason why AGar would be scummy, but he isn't helping to contribute much.

The two people who I am most suspicious of right now are Boxman and Papa Zito, and I have noticed that they have never voted for each other, and if they have, then it has never really been a very serious vote. So I think they are scum.

@Papa Zito - How suspicious of boxman are you?
@Boxman - How suspicious of Papa Zito are you?

[Wickedestjr]

I actually thought AGar's analysis was a good one. It showed that, even if Indigo Heron is a cop, he is completely useless. He is basically a townie. If there is not a roleblocker, then IH will get to inspect, but there will not be a doctor, so he will die. If there is a roleblocker, then he doesn't get an inspection, but there will be a doc, so he survives. Each results in no information what so ever. I don't think that the doctor should save you if there is one. So IH could be lying or telling the truth about being the cop. If he is telling the truth, then he is basically a townie. If he is lying then he is mafia. So he is either no use to us, or mafia. Let us also keep in mind that he doesn't post a lot.

[Wickedestjr]

I do not think we should have the cop claim yet. He can claim whenever he wants to, but he can't make everybody forget his claim whenever he wants. If the cop reveals himself, then we will know that IH is mafia. If the cop keeps himself hidden for a little longer, he might have chance of finding the other mafia, which would allow us to win the game.

[Wickedestjr]

I never said I wanted to lynch Indigo Heron. If I did, wouldn't I be voting him. I was just explaining how I thought IH's cop role would not help us at all, and that if Indigo Heron starts acting really suspiciously then we should give him a few votes, because we wouldn't have much to lose. But I am all for keeping him in the game another day at least.

[Wickedestjr]

I am still unsure about AGar.

@Indigo Heron - I don't understand either of the questions in post 220. Please rephrase them.

[Wickedestjr]

@Papa Zito - I have a few ideas of who the mafia pair is. The idea that I am most sure of does not include AGar in it. I still don't see why you guys are voting for him. I just get a gut feeling that he is not mafia. I do think that he is lurking and he also seems to be agreeing with all the things that I said. I think that the chance of him being in the scum pair is half/half leaning towards definitely.

I think that Papa Zito's PBPA was a good one, and I agree that Boxman is lurking and agreeing with everything we say in an attempt to blend in.

Vote: Boxman

The problem with the above post is that you did intend to lynch me. You voted for me to make a dusk appointment with the gallows, remember?

You voted for me to get lynched earlier, remember?

This was before you claimed cop, so I changed my opinion.

I was just explaining how I thought IH's cop role would not help us at all, and that if Indigo Heron starts acting really suspiciously then we should give him a few votes, because we wouldn't have much to lose. But I am all for keeping him in the game another day at least.

You want to lynch me anyway if I act suspiciously, and you're all for keeping me for another day? Just what exactly do you anticipate happening on Day 2? I detect a hint of in-game coaching here.

You've also turned being disengaged into a Zen-like thing when it concerns AGar. You honestly don't have an opinion about AGar?

vote: Wickedestjr

unless he can satisfyingly explain.

I am all for keeping you another day

unless

you do something scummy. I have a link to a mafia game that I played in which I was mafia and ended up claiming cop;

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Foru ... &start=300

This does not necessarily mean that you are scum but IGMEOY. Even if you were cop, and we lynched you because we thought you were scum, it would not be much of a loss, because your abilities don't work anyway. You claimed cop, so if I had to decide whether you stay in the game or not for another day, I would choose to keep you.

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote: Boxman

Sorry, I was unaware of the vote count. Please don't claim boxman.

@Papa Zito - Wth? Why would you want a second player to say their role? Personally I would rather finish this day without letting mafia know all the power roles.

[Wickedestjr]

I am sorry, but I forgot that we were not positive about whether there was a doctor or not, but either way, I think two claims is too much to digest so early in the game.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedestjr's panicked unvote looks like scum trying not to get his partner killed.

That said, I still believe Box is the best lynch today.

If me and boxman were partners I most likely wouldn't have vote him in the first place. I didn't want the mafia to have to have two half determined townies. But fine, I obviously don't speak for anybody else when I say that box shouldn't claim so

Vote:boxman.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, I am a businessman A.K.A. a townie. I am afraid of the mafia and I win when the they are dead.

@tracker - Haven't I already answered your questions;

Your questions were;
why don't you want boxman at L-1? Why are 2 claims to much to digest? and why don't you want him to claim?

I didn't want him to claim because two claims were to much to digest for me.

I felt that two claims were to much to digest for the reason in this quote;

If me and boxman were partners I most likely wouldn't have vote him in the first place. I didn't want the mafia to have to have two half determined townies. But fine, I obviously don't speak for anybody else when I say that box shouldn't claim so Vote:boxman.

I didn't want boxman at L-1 because I didn't want somebody to accidentally hammer because we still have a bit of time left in this day.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked:

Oh, now you're calling me a half-determined townie, and are daring us to force a claim from boxman?

Also, your WIFOM defence is vague at best. If boxman and you were partners you would have voted for him anyway knowing that if we enquired you would have used the WIFOM defence.

What do you think of this?

I guess it could be true and it does not go along with my previous defense, but that just means that anybody voting for box could have any role.

How come nobody believes my claim?

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedestjr's panicked unvote looks like scum trying not to get his partner killed.

That said, I still believe Box is the best lynch today.

If me and boxman were partners I most likely wouldn't have vote him in the first place. I didn't want the mafia to have to have two half determined townies. But fine, I obviously don't speak for anybody else when I say that box shouldn't claim so

Vote:boxman.

This defense.

[Wickedestjr]

I am not the cop.

@Papa Zito - As for the scenarios you posted, doesn't it have to be B, C, or D, because box was a mafia goon?

I understand why you wouldn't want IH to reveal his inspection, but by withholding this information, we take the risk of him getting NK'd.

[Wickedestjr]

So if the player that IH inspected doesn't get any of the heat, and a person that he hasn't inspected gets the heat, should he still reveal his claim?

[Wickedestjr]

Nice to meet you Yaw.

*waiting for AGar*

[Wickedestjr]

I've made a bit of a match analysis

I've been doing the same thing.

[Wickedestjr]

Alright, here's the good news - if Indigo Heron is scum, he has lost. I could go into the details now, but let it suffice to say that a Day 4 doctor claim is important.

I don't understand sorry. Maybe it's just something I should just wait to fall into play. Why would you want the doctor to claim so late as day four?

I don't think she's pushed for finding scum at all this game. Her swipes at suspicions have always seemed a little half-hearted. On top of that, I can think of some reason why I think there's a decent chance every other player in the game is potentially town. I can't see one for her.

Mitey is also one of the people that I think is most likely to be scum, but I will not vote yet, until I reread the thread a little bit. I would also like to hear what Mitey has to say.

[Wickedestjr]

I ain't the po-lice.

Other than that, kinda confused by the tracker hit. Seems... bad.

It was probably because they felt tracker wouldn't get lynched today.

[Wickedestjr]

So I will say I think I would prefer scum roles, but I’m not sure yet. I wanted to be scum this game

Why'd you feel the need to say this?

unvote

since there's no sense keeping this vote here. I'm starting to think we'll need a random bandwagon to get anywhere.

Why the unvote then?

Thesp...I don't love the random voting stage. It is the norm here but, far from my favourite part of the game.
Speaking of which...

Vote: Wickedestjr

...because it took me a bit to try and pronounce your name!

I'm curious - if you acknowledge it as the norm, don't like it, and see a viable alternative presented before you, why then accept the norm?

This is because the only time (here) I've tried not randomly voting, I got jumped all over! I did not really want a repeat of that.

But like Thesp said, there is an alternative for beginning the game. Why did you not use this alternative?

As to the meat of this post, I took that as a joke. This would be a very short game if the Scum came out so easily.

Oh dear. Mitey, why are you answering for Boxman?

Hmm... I think this is important to take into account.

[Wickedestjr]

Papa...I was just giving my take on the comment from Boxman. I wasn't answering for him at all.

ORLY? Because it sure looks like you said out a nice little excuse that he could just pick up and say "yeah this".

Not to get all meta here but, you of all people know that I'm not fond of in thread coaching...that is what you are implying, is it not? And if I was to coach in thread, it would be far more subtle...again, you know this!

WIFOM excuse. I know that I did this as well, but I think this case is worse.

In your opinion, which is more valuable:
- A player defending against an attack directly against him/her; or
- A player defending another player.

I think that they both have value. A player defending themselves...that is a big part of the game and if someone didn't defend themselves, well then, they're not really playing are they?
A player defending someone else...well, this could be considered buddying (or cuddling as I like to call it) or it could be pointing out something that the accuser did not see.

Both get the players talking and that is always a good thing!

I see this as a very safe answer to a very revealing question.

First, arguing with Mitey sucks.

Second, help me see the value of defending? I'm missing it.

Also, you've hit on one concern, erm, cuddling. (lol) But you missed another, that of an experienced partner defending a less experienced one.

Yeah...I don't like fighting with you either my friend...but it's part of the fun of the game!

Defending (though I'm not sure that that is what I did here) could help to point out something that the accuser did not see. The joke part of his post seemed pretty obvious... You've played with me before, do you really think that if I were Scum with Boxman, that I would tip my hand this early and give us both away?

Well, we know boxman is scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Wow wicked. That analysis would have been fantastic back on page 2 when it happened. None of it is that relevant.

I said I wanted to be scum because I did. End of. No hidden meaning.

It is still analysis, which is good for the town.

It

pains me to say

but his death helped the town,

This kind of thing, and this kind of thing;

So I will say I think I would prefer scum roles, but I’m not sure yet.

I wanted to be scum this game

that makes me twitch a bit.

I've done some analysis of my own.

Darkstrike, you provide a good point about AGar. I am not very suspicious of him. @Thesp - What do you think about Darkstrike's point about AGar, you were suspicious of him during day 1, so does this change anything to you? I currently see AGar as pro-town.

I am not sure if I am willing to believe IH's claim yet. Thesp, you said that IH would lose no matter what. Can you please elaborate? Don't forget that this is a newbie game, and people like me, won't understand this.

I find Papa Zito to be pro-town at the moment mostly because of his big yellow table and he has been against him pretty much the whole game.

I am not sure about Dark_strike. The quotes earlier in this post make me a bit suspicious. Other than that Darkstrike has been acting pretty pro-town, but I still see him as neutral. Although, I don't know if I would want him lynched, because there is really no way he can defend himself that would actually be pretty convincing. I am kind of leaning toward neutral because it isn't the best evidence, but it is something I think we should consider.

I find Mitey Mouse to be scummy.

FoS: Mitey Mouse

I would be voting for him right now if that didn't put him at L-1. He isn't contributing at all. I kind of get the feeling that he is waiting for day to end so he can make another kill. He also doesn't seem too interested in scumhunting.

Last is Thesp. I honestly don't have a clue of what to think of him. Nothing he has done has seemed scummy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was scum. I get a neutral read from him.

[Wickedestjr]

I believe that I already answered this and then used his idea...and thought that it was fun.

Can you please point out the posts where this happens, because I can't find it.

How is it worse...please explain how my actions are bad but, your use of WiFoM is ok?

Darkstrike had a theory that me and you were the scum pair because we were the last two to confirm. He accused me first though. For my defense I used WIFOM by saying that there is no knowing that the last two to confirm would be scum and that the scum could have confirmed first on purpose to make me and you look bad.

However it looked to me like you did not realize that defending boxman would make you look so bad, and it looked like when you did realize this, you said, "oh do you actually think I would of done this if I was scum". Well you could have.

I think my WIFOM excuse is ok, because I didn't really do anything scummy in the first place when darkstrike accused me. However, you defended boxman who turned out to be scum which is scummy. Then you use that WIFOM excuse of yours.

Yes it was a safe answer

but, Papa was (quite obviously) implying that my defense of Boxman (though it wasn't really a defence just me stating an oponion) made me less valuable to the Town.

You even admit that it is a safe answer. Papa Zito asked you which of the two you prefer, and instead you say you think they are both equally important. That did not answer the question. It struck me as if you weren't sure how to answer the question. Possibly scared you may answer incorrectly.

No...MiteyMouse is a she!

Sorry about that.


@MM - What do you think of Thesp and Darkstrike?

[Wickedestjr]

Oh and also MM what do you think about IH? Do you believe his claim?

[Wickedestjr]

Darkstrike had a theory that me and you were the scum pair because we were the last two to confirm. He accused me first though. For my defense I used WIFOM by saying that there is no knowing that the last two to confirm would be scum and that the scum could have confirmed first on purpose to make me and you look bad.

Seriously?

Did you not notice this or are you being sarcasm somehow?

Wicked, I remember that defence. It was not a good wifom defence. Wifom is rarely a good defence. Claiming that one type of wifom defence is better than another is just absurd.

Wicked is just making life more difficult for himself today. I still find it interesting that we had a L-1 wagon on him and boxman didn't hammer it. Though I suppose that could go either way, he could be afraid to hammer a townie, or he could have not wanted to lynch his partner.

I'd quite like to hear other people's thoughts on that piece of evidence..

Who's defense do you think is better then? Boxman couldn't hammer, I think he was the one that put me at L-1 anyway.


@Papa Zito - The only way I can defend myself in this situation without using a WIFOM excuse would be to say that I'm the kind of player that likes to spend as much time in the day as possible, and therefore I didn't want a box lynch.


The reason I am suspicious of MM is because;

1: She hasn't contributed hardly any.

2: She doesn't seem to be too interested in scumhunting.

3: The only comments relating to boxman have been defending him in some way.

[Wickedestjr]

The reason I am suspicious of MM is because;

1: She hasn't contributed hardly any.

2: She doesn't seem to be too interested in scumhunting.

3: The only comments relating to boxman have been defending him in some way.

Please contrast these points to your play in this game.

1: My scumhunting may not have helped much, but I have been trying my best to find out who the last scumhunting member is. Mitey doesn't seem like she has ever.

2: If I wasn't interested in scumhunting then I wouldn't posting as much. Mitey made three posts during day 2 I think, so far. I have made at least 10 I'm pretty sure.

3: Well, the only times that Mitey has actually spoken about box, she was first defending his joke that he made at the beginning of the game that he was scum, which turned out to be the truth. Then mitey asked why we would want box lynched more than me. This seemed like she was defending him again to me. She was also never on the box wagon.


@Darkstrike

Box was the fourth person to vote for me. Then he unvoted. Then later I was either at L-1 for unvoting but regardless, box hadn't even posted around this time.

[Wickedestjr]

1: My scumhunting may not have helped much, but I have been trying my best to find out who the last scumhunting member is. Mitey doesn't seem like she has ever.

Who have you hunted, and what were your conclusions?

What do you mean by this question? Do you mean who have I been suspicious of?

2: If I wasn't interested in scumhunting then I wouldn't posting as much. Mitey made three posts during day 2 I think, so far. I have made at least 10 I'm pretty sure.

Does post count typically indicate alignment?

It shows how interested they are in scum hunting.
I admit, this is not one of my strongest points, but it is still something I thought was worthy of pointing out.

3: Well, the only times that Mitey has actually spoken about box, [1]she was first defending his joke that he made at the beginning of the game that he was scum, which turned out to be the truth. [2]Then mitey asked why we would want box lynched more than me. This seemed like she was defending him again to me. [3]She was also never on the box wagon.

1. Yes, it did turn out to be the truth. Let's look at this in more detail. Box identified himself as scum in that joke, which has proven true by his flip. He then identified Thesp as his partner. Since you're using his joke post as evidence, why are you not suspecting Thesp?

2. Why didn't you bring this point up before I mentioned it?

3. Which is more scummy to you: To never join a wagon on someone who later turns out to be scum, or to join it and then jump off when the voter realizes he put the person at L-1?


@Thesp, no worries, we have until July 14. We shouldn't be in a rush.

[/quote]

1: First of all, I sort of suspect Thesp, because he hasn't done anything to prove his innocence yet. Some people have to me, and Thesp hasn't. I would rather lynch Mitey though, because she's actually done things that make me believe she is the last remaining scum.

2: I didn't notice this until I saw you mention it.

3: Somebody who never joined the bandwagon. The defenses from mitey I would think would make somebody else lean toward this answer as well.

[Wickedestjr]

I believe that I already answered this and then used his idea...and thought that it was fun.

Can you please point out the posts where this happens, because I can't find it.

Looking back, it was not as much as I thought it was. I did answer a question and I asked one near the start of the game.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't answer this question? Where did you ask a random question?

Yes it was a safe answer

but, Papa was (quite obviously) implying that my defense of Boxman (though it wasn't really a defence just me stating an oponion) made me less valuable to the Town.

You even admit that it is a safe answer. Papa Zito asked you which of the two you prefer, and instead you say you think they are both equally important. That did not answer the question. It struck me as if you weren't sure how to answer the question. Possibly scared you may answer incorrectly.

Well I do admit that it was safe. I do believe that both are important...though, that is now looking to turn around and be used against me.

I am using it against you, because I think you are scum. If you were town why would you give a safe answer to that question? Town aren't afraid about being lynched, and that's the impression that you have given me.

[Wickedestjr]

Vote: Mitey Mouse

Mitey hasn't really convinced me at all. I gave her a chance, but she didn't change my mind.

[Wickedestjr]

My Defense By: Wickedestjr
--------------------------------

First of all, I would like to point out that I am the kind of player that generally comes across as scum regardless of my role, and I admit re-reading my own posts, I have done some strange things. I am not expecting you to unvote me for this reason alone though. I've noticed that people were suspicious of me because of my unvote of box and not wanting him to rc. I don't know if there was any other reason for people being suspicious of me, but please point out points that I missed. First Papa Zito posted a big table that convinced me to vote box. Honestly, he was not a player I was paying attention to and when Papa pointed out how box was following everybody else and trying to get on the town's good side, I decided this was suspicious enough for a vote. Keep in mind that this was about a page or two after IH's claim. Then I realized, that I put box at L-1, and when I saw Papa Zito asking him to claim, I unvoted. These are the reasons why;

1: I wanted to use as much of the day as possible. Even if we reached the deadline, I was pretty sure that box was going to get lynched anyway, and I didn't think it could hurt to get some more discussion.

2: I hadn't heard box's defense yet, and if his defense was decent enough I might have unvoted. If it wasn't then I wouldn't care to have him at L-1.

[Wickedestjr]

1: I wanted to use as much of the day as possible. Even if we reached the deadline, I was pretty sure that box was going to get lynched anyway, and I didn't think it could hurt to get some more discussion.

2: I hadn't heard box's defense yet, and if his defense was decent enough I might have unvoted. If it wasn't then I wouldn't care to have him at L-1.

1. We were 3 days from the deadline, and we had all discussed other alternatives. At this point, it wasn't going to be rushed. Plus you kind of kill yourself with the whole "Even if we reached the deadline, I was pretty sure that box was going to get lynched anyway" - why not just drop the hammer then?

2. Box wasn't going to give a defense, because he had none. He got caught very quickly and it was downhill from there.

1: When you ask "why not just drop the hammer then?" I don't know if you were asking me why I didn't hammer, but if you were, then I couldn't have because I was the one that put him at L-1. Just because we are pretty sure that somebody is going to get lynched, that doesn't mean we can't give the scum more time to act scummy.

2: What do you mean box wasn't going to give a defense? Everybody gives defenses regardless of their role. What do you mean he didn't have a defense? Please elaborate on this.


I think that IH should reveal his investigation. If he really is the cop, then we'd take the risk of him getting NK'd during the night.

[Wickedestjr]

Ok...it looks like I'm going to be the target for today. I'm going to take a closer look at Papa and Thesp. Papa because something seems off with him but, I can't quite get my finger on it and Thesp because of him voting for me on 2 Days in a row without reasoning. I'll be back shortly...
I just wanted that out there incase a hammer gets dropped on me.

I don't think Papa is very scummy at the moment, but Thesp is definitely a player that needs to be watched.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't understand why an inexperienced scum player would nk tracker. I can understand why an experienced player would do it. Thesp is probably the most experienced player in this game. If he nk'd papa zito and darkstrike, then it would make him look bad. Thesp, Papa Zito, and Darkstrike are probably the only players that would benefit from killing an inexperienced player. I don't think that Papa Zito is scum, or, like he said, he bussed his partner pretty badly. Which makes me believe that Darkstrike or Thesp could be scum. However, it could also be IH, because getting rid of experienced players would make him look bad, because experienced players are threats, and so is a cop.

I have reconsidered it and decided that Mitey may not be the best lynch at the moment.

Unvote: Mitey

However, I still think Mitey is a player to keep an eye on. I would like to hear what other's think about my analysis in this post.

I think the scum is one of these four;

Thesp
Darkstrike
Mitey Mouse
Indigo Heron

I am not so sure about darkstrike though.

[Wickedestjr]

Alright, I guess it is best if we believe the claim for now.

[Wickedestjr]

1. No opinions in early game until I called him on it.
2. The panicked unvote of Box late yesterday
3. Randomly throwing accusations around this morning
4. Attacked Mitey when it was convenient

1. When did you comment on this during day 1? Which posts did not contain opinions prior to your comment about it?

2. I have explained this, and not a single person has even acknowledged it. Care to explain what was wrong with it?

3. How so?

4. Please elaborate more on this, because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Wickedestjr]

I am also a bit suspicious of Darkstrike. It looks like he is trying not to make any body angry with these comments;

So I will say I think I would prefer scum roles, but

I’m not sure yet

. I wanted to be scum this game

This just doesn't sit well with me. It looks like a very safe answer. I think the "I'm not sure yet" part was just added in case somebody didn't like his answer.

we shouldn't be quick to do something stupid or mislynch just to move the game along. Unless you want to?

???

What does confuse me is tracker as a target. For me he was neutral.

It pains me

to say but his death helped the town

Wicked - So your saying tracker's death helped the town? That is really suspicious.

Darkstrike - Look back at my post. I said that it pained me to say it.

Wicked - Oh oops, never mind.


Does anybody else find this strange?


@Thesp - What is your read on IH?

@IH - What are your reads on Thesp and Darkstrike?

[Wickedestjr]

I am also a bit suspicious of Darkstrike. It looks like he is trying not to make any body angry with these comments;

So I will say I think I would prefer scum roles, but

I’m not sure yet

. I wanted to be scum this game

This just doesn't sit well with me. It looks like a very safe answer. I think the "I'm not sure yet" part was just added in case somebody didn't like his answer.

or in case I haven't played a game as scum yet.

It doesn't really make a difference in my opinion. How many games of mafia have you played prior to this one?

I already defended that.

It is still very similar to the other points in that post, so I felt like including it. Can you please tell me what post your defense is in. I don't remember it.

The last part of the sentence was meant in a heavily sarcastic way.

That was not at all obvious to me.

Do you really think I'm saying "unless you want to...oh you do yay lets quicklynch"

Well, the sarcasm was not obvious to me.

Also make a point when you quote. Its not good to just make a post and not put an opinion on it.

I was not sure what to say about it. It was so easily explanable, it was hard to explain. I felt that questions marks would best represent my opinion about it.

stop playing to the crowd.

How am I playing to the crowd?

And why is saying that tracker's death helped the town scummy?

It is not. I never said that it was. I felt that you added "it pains me to say this" because you wanted to seem like you felt that tracker's contribution was helpful and you were truly appreciative of it. (Not that tracker's contribution was bad.) Scum wouldn't be.

Tracker was a neutral/scum read in my mind, his death eradicated a neutral player, keeping more probtown players in the game. And I'm not the one going back to that post, you are, it would be a really stupid defence to use "hey wicked look how it pains me to see tracker killed"

It is not something anybody would want to use in their own defense, it is the kind of thing to persuade others of their innocence. It just doesn't sit well with me.

what WOULD be scummy was if someone 'congratulated' the scum ie "wow we are in a pickle now that tracker is dead". But thats not what I am doing.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But for future reference, why would that be scummy? I also want to know why you think it isn't scummy.

Therefore in conclusion your points aren't that valid.

They may not be, but it is something that I wanted to point out.

Voting patterns for instance, rather than my idiom and turn of phrase.

You've already covered voting patterns.
Okay, I will start thinking of something.

Your arguments are about the way I post, not on the content as much.

Sometimes considering the way people post can be a good idea.

Haing said that, I'm welcoming the investigation. Nobody should sit easy in this game.

Except Mitey of course.

Something I'm thinking of, is that tracker's death is in my mind a ploy for us to suspect IndigoHeron. The scum must have looked at who would be most incriminating to IH to die. I consider this to be a fairly complex ploy. I would suspect Thesp over wicked in doing this. I'd quite like to hear other people's opinions on that because I'm not sure.

Well, when I'm mafia I always kill the biggest threat. Mostly because I am not a good player and I don't have to worry about these kind of things while threats like Thesp and IH do have to worry about it. I'm not saying it confirms any inexperienced player's innocence though, because it could be a big case of WIFOM.

[Wickedestjr]

1. No opinions in early game until I called him on it.

1. When did you comment on this during day 1? Which posts did not contain opinions prior to your comment about it?

Please see here.

I did not realize you called me out on it so early in the game. And I admit I didn't have many opinions about other players prior to that post, but that is only because it is hard for me to get good opinions on players in the first 4 and a half pages in a game. It is not until around the end of day one, or day two, that I actually get good opinions of other players.

2. The panicked unvote of Box late yesterday

2. I have explained this, and not a single person has even acknowledged it. Care to explain what was wrong with it?

"Two claims are too much to digest" and WIFOM are not a defense.

Can you please cut through my defense, because this wouldn't really convince me if I were another player, and it doesn't convince me as myself either.

3. Randomly throwing accusations around this morning

3. How so?

Please see the jumbled mess here.

How is that randomly throwing accusations around? I am merely asking questions about things that I did not understand.

then you vote Mitey because she "didn't change your mind."

What's wrong with this? And as for the zoning in on Mitey, I felt that since others wanted Mitey lynched, that I should analyze her. She didn't change my mind about my suspicion, so I voted her.

With Box flipping scum, the group came into today with you, AGar and Mitey as most suspicious. When Dark declares AGar likely town, you hit the only other possibility, Mitey.

Me and tracker had very similar lists of suspicions. My main suspicions yesterday were box, mitey, agar, tracker, and ih. IH claimed cop, so I was willing to believe him for the time being. Tracker was nk'd so I knew he was evidence, darkstrike convinced me that agar was innocent, and box was lynched, so that left mitey.

[Wickedestjr]

I'd also like to remind everyone of this post:

Because no one else is really suspicious to me.

You were the only other suspicious person in my eyes, and you turned out to be the cop.

Papa Zito, darkstrike_11, and Thesp have all been useful in some way today.

Wickedest_jr,

tracker

, and

Mitey Mouse

haven't done anything to raise my suspicions.

One of these things is not like the other.

vote: Wickedestjr

How 'bout the list of people that box claimed have been useful in some way?

[Wickedestjr]

Papa is a mystery to me and that scares me as, I've seen him as Scum. If he's our Scum we are going to have to work hard to get him.

How is his play compared to his play in that game?

[Wickedestjr]

"Two claims are too much to digest" and WIFOM are not a defense.

Can you please cut through my defense, because this wouldn't really convince me if I were another player, and it doesn't convince me as myself either.

I just did. As did several other players when you said it.

1. "Two claims are too much to digest" - I'm not even sure what this means. Why do you think I asked for a claim in that situation?
2. Saying 'gee whiz guys I wouldn't do that as scum honest' isn't a defense. At all. You're asking everyone else to just trust you.

1. Well, I wasn't sure everybody would want a second person to claim, and when you told box to claim that kind of struck me as you were making the rules, and I didn't want us to do something that we would regret

2. Well it may not be a good defense, but I feel that the first point is good enough.

How is that randomly throwing accusations around? I am merely asking questions about things that I did not understand.

So later in this post you list Box, Mitey, AGar, Tracker and IH (over half the town!) as your main suspicions. Yet this opening post is throwing things at me and Dark, contradicting your list. Even worse, it's content from extremely early Day 1, when we have much better data to use now.

When I listed those five, I meant that those were the five that I thought the scum were amongst.

then you vote Mitey because she "didn't change your mind."

What's wrong with this? And as for the zoning in on Mitey, I felt that

since others wanted Mitey lynched, that I should analyze her.

She didn't change my mind about my suspicion, so I voted her.

This is a scumslip.

What is so scummy about analyzing the person that people want to lynch? Isn't that what everybody should do?

How 'bout the list of people that box claimed have been useful in some way?

What about it? What's your opinion on it?[/quote]

Well, his partner very well could be a person in the list of people he thought had been useful. I find it strange that you are just ignoring those people. If his partner was you, Thesp, or Darkstrike, what list do you think he'd put them in?

[Wickedestjr]

1. Well, I wasn't sure everybody would want a second person to claim, and when you told box to claim that kind of struck me as you were making the rules, and I didn't want us to do something that we would regret

You didn't answer my question. Why do you think I demanded a claim in that situation?

Because, if he claimed a PR, then we would most likely had unvoted.

When I listed those five, I meant that those were the five that I thought the scum were amongst.

What was the point of the questions then?

To gather more information, as I should be doing, yes?

What is so scummy about analyzing the person that people want to lynch? Isn't that what everybody should do?

You should be analyzing everyone, not just the current bandwagon favorite.

I have been, but most of the time, I haven't been finding anything that would be helpful. I also noticed that I wasn't paying enough attention to Mitey, so I analyzed her more.


[quote="Papa Zito"

Well, his partner very well could be a person in the list of people he thought had been useful. I find it strange that you are just ignoring those people. If his partner was you, Thesp, or Darkstrike, what list do you think he'd put them in?

In my experience, scum typically list their partners in neutral-sounding categories.[/quote]

So if his partner was you or Thesp then he'd put you in the group of people that he didn't suspect, but not in the group of useful people? You two have been very useful, so that would be pretty wierd.

[Wickedestjr]

Papa is a mystery to me and that scares me as, I've seen him as Scum. If he's our Scum we are going to have to work hard to get him.

How is his play compared to his play in that game?

Papa is a really good Scum. He seems to play the same if he is Town or Scum. I have played with him as both (in finished games)...it's terribly frustrating!

If he hadn't made the big yellow table, what would your read on Papa Zito be?

[Wickedestjr]

What is an IC?

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry the last post was mine. It was on a relatives account, and they hadn't logged out. Sorry.

[Wickedestjr]

For now I think I will vote Thesp.

Vote: Thesp

I realized something that I found suspicious about Thesp.

If he is scum then he knows that everybody else is innocent. Earlier he defended me. His reason however, was very weak. I am also getting the impression that he knows I am going to get lynched today. If I did, that would probably make him look good, because I would appear innocent, like he had predicted. I think he knows this. So that is why I am voting him. It may be a weak reason in some people's opinions, but he is a very experienced player, and we are probably not going to find much suspicious about him.


I would like to hear what other players have to say about this.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't know what to make of it other than maybe a last ditch effort by scum to get attention off of him?

Well, should I let you lynch me regardless of my allignment?

[Wickedestjr]

If he is scum then he knows that everybody else is innocent. Earlier he defended me. His reason however, was very weak. I am also getting the impression that he knows I am going to get lynched today. If I did, that would probably make him look good, because I would appear innocent, like he had predicted. I think he knows this. So that is why I am voting him. It may be a weak reason in some people's opinions, but he is a very experienced player, and we are probably not going to find much suspicious about him.

If he's scum then he also knew Mitey was innocent. Why do you think he pursued her two days in a row?

Well, he has to go after somebody doesn't he? I think he could be trying to attack as few people as possible.

[Wickedestjr]

You guys can lynch me if you want. Apparently I am just distracting you from finding scum. I thought I have defended myself good enough. But obviously that was not the case for others. We only have two days left, and that is probably not enough time to find the scum, because most of this day has been spent attacking me. You'll soon find that this has been a waste of time and I guess keeping me alive today would only waste another day. But good luck finding scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Here's my list;

1. Thesp
2. Darkstrike
3. IH
4. AGar
5. Papa Zito
6. Mitey


It is something like that. 2-5 may be in a slightly different order.

[Wickedestjr]

*Stops tying the rope around his neck wondering if he is going to live*

[Wickedestjr]

Good game AGar, I had no clue you were scum. I thought that Thesp was scum, and considered Darkstrike being scum, but never did I think of you being scum. After my lynch I still thought that Thesp was scum, and was suspicious of his desire to get rid of somebody that claimed cop.

Thanks for moderating this Khelvaster. This was a fun game.

[Wickedestjr]

Yeah but that was at the very beginning of the game, so even better.

[Wickedestjr]

Will we get notification when the new game is up?
And I'm assuming that I'm not the only one who hasn't gotten my role?