Newbie 767 - Game Over!

[Phelan]

Vote:PlatypusDude

for being half Platypus, half Dude.

Btw, does IGMEOY mean I've got my eye on you? That's what I got from google.

[Phelan]

Oh, and delathi, it's Phelan, not Phalan.

[Phelan]

Just finished going through the two pages. If I missed something, or got something wrong, let me know.

I also think it's suspicious to put someone at L-1 without no reason, especially with justifications that seem to be circular logic.
Porkens, do you think it would make sense if me or PlatypusDude now voted for you, asked you to claim, and justified it the same way you have been doing?

Despite that, I don't have enough info to think he's scum, and I think I see what he is trying to do.

I'd still like to read Ethan's reasons (if there were any) to vote Wolf.

[Phelan]

Edit by way of post: without no reason -> without reason.

[Phelan]

First of all, I used to play mafia on another forum. We always did role reveals on lynch there. I'm getting the impression that's not the case on MS, so maybe I need some time to adjust to that.

Really?
I had the impression that MS had role reveals on lynch, at least on newbie games.
I used to play without role reveals, so I was trying to adjust.

Korlash, Porkens, which one is it?

[Phelan]

Porkens, while I don't agree with putting you at L-1, I think that now that the Wolf wagon has lost interest, you should tell us what you were doing.

[Phelan]

Archaist, just reread the thread, and you never voted in the random voting stage, nor did you vote for Ethan when you found him suspicious. Why?

[Phelan]

Thanks Archaist, that makes sense.

Why I put Wolf at L-1

Primarily, my attempt here was to illicit some specific reactions.

I was expecting it to be this, although I wasn't expecting something to have set you off.
I was also thinking you could be trying to get a newbie scum to hammer, although that wouldn't be very IC. That of course had the problem that someone who hammered would just be a proven newbie, not proven scum.
Thanks for the analysis. I still have one question, though:

Muzzz, on the other hand, being the first to 'random' vote for Wolf started pressing in with psudo-case material (the whole LAL business).

Muzzz didn't jump off the wagon right away, even though he doesn't seem to like it.

These two seem inconsistent. Why no conclusion on Muzz?

Phelan

is lurking. Post moar.

I probably won't be able to post more often than once or twice per day due to my college workload, but I'll try to post more when I do.

Role-Reveals

All newbie games here have open role-flips. We will know what someone was once they are dead.

Ok, thanks.

Also, Ethan, are you still with us?

[Phelan]

Hi guys, I'm sorry for not posting for so long, but I had some deadlines approaching before the holidays, and I forgot about the game.
I should now have more time for mafia, and just added this thread to my favorites.

Just finished quickreading the topic, and some things stuck out.

First, welcome MordyS.

I also invite Wolf to bring that number to four. It will still be L-1, putting the same pressure on Platypus that was once on Wolf, and it will also give some confidence that Wolf and Platypus are not working together. Obviously if someone drops the hammer immediately afterward, that would be a good indication in-and-of itself.

I feel like this group pressure to claim random people can only benefit the scum.

Why are you advocating L-1 on Platypus? Isn't this group pressure to claim? Also, I don't think the effect will be the same by now as when Porkens posted.

Actually, Porkens vote on Platypus was the only vote based on suspicion, Phelan's vote was apparently a random one.

Yup, my vote was random. It isn't anymore, see below.

How did it not look to you like anyone was going to throw the final vote? If this was a scum setup, they could've been waiting a reasonable + non-suspicious period of time before throwing the hammer.

Would there be any time-period that wouldn't be unreasonable+suspicious to throw the hammer on that vote? I think not.

Should we be looking to lynch someone today, even without a preponderance of evidence?

Yes, it's best to lynch even if it's at random, when no information exists. However, the more evidence we have, the better our chances in the lynch get, and it helps after the lynch to see how people behaved.
With 8 pages, we do have information.

(snipped quotes)
I took the liberty of providing the proper context for your quote. And I'm not too thrilled about this. Quoting something out of context is one thing. But to leave an unexplained "this stuck out to me" dangling around... Either you're being extremely careless, or you're deliberately trying to make that comment look suspicious.

Yeah, I find this strange too. Hence my vote not being random anymore.

That really only leaves Muzzz and Phelan from whom I feel I haven't heard close to enough.

Ask and I'll answer.

Isn't his only other possible claim to out himself as a powerrole?

I'm not sure who was the first to say this, Korlash or Porkens, but if you claim vanilla townie when you have a powerrole, you'll have trouble later getting past the lie.

A thought:
Forcing people to claim would also narrow the targets for the mafia, if they answer truthfully. Since according to the above, they should, to get past their previous lie, I see little reason to keep on asking everyone to claim.

Oh, and to make it official:

Unvote, Vote: Platypus

I'll try and read more thoroughly tomorrow, and answer any questions you have for me.

[Phelan]

I have to say that y'all are doing a bang-up job for a buncha newbs

I'd say thanks, but I haven't really contributed much, I think.

If you look at the bottom of any page in the thread, under the submit button, you'll see a line that says "Display posts ffrom previous:" and then some dropdown menues. If you click on the one that says "all users" you should be able to view just that person's posts in the thread. I hope that helps/is actually what you wanted to know.

Thanks, that will be helpful.

Platypus hasn't done anything to redeem himself for me, and his recent post in which he mentioned himself, phelen, and archaist moves Phelen up into my number 2 slot.

Is this because he's associating himself with me and Archaist?
I think there was a discussion before about assuming scum by association, and how it was bad.
Just checked, and it was Platypus that posted it:

Post 149 reminds me of my first game. The main thing I learned from that is: don't call scum partners without a body to confirm it. That case relies solely on the theory that both wolf and I are scum.

If it was the names in the same post, it also happened before from my direction:

Porkens, do you think it would make sense if me or PlatypusDude now voted for you, asked you to claim, and justified it the same way you have been doing?

Does this make me more suspicious?

Well, I have to get some sleep.
See you tomorrow.

[Phelan]

Prodded.
Had a lot more to do during the holidays than I expected, sorry.

I'll be reading what happened, and will post more in a few hours.

[Phelan]

Porkens, do you think it would make sense if me or PlatypusDude now voted for you, asked you to claim, and justified it the same way you have been doing?

Me, Phelan, and Archaist hadn’t posted since the L-1 vote. I don't feel like he should have guessed how we would react. I think newbie townies generally would unvote in that situation. I also feel there's been a general lack of scumhunting considering the amount of posts he has.

Two considerations for Phelan:

1. I'm actually not sure exactly how suspicious it is. My gut says it is suspicious that you both reached for each other when making rhetorical arguments, but that could be a coincidence and not a tell. (Pretty lazy Mafia if that indeed is a tell.)

2. More interesting, I think, is that - after knowing that Platypus considered Platypus' statement evidence against you (regardless of the validity of that evidence) - you provided him with more of the same kind of evidence! And then instead of attempting to argue away that evidence, you simply asked if it makes you seem suspicious.

My point (which I apparently didn't write) was that in my case, there were two people that weren't on bandwagons at the time, me and Platypus. That fact didn't seem to indicate any type of association. Why would the post indicate it?
Even if Platypus seemed suspicious to me at the time, I thought his point on "finding scum by association without a body to confirm isn't a good idea" made sense.

2a. If you are a Townie, there is now a paradox. No Townie would bring scum-related evidence against a fellow Townie. In general, that is mitigated by the fact that you don't have certainty about who you are bringing evidence against. So even if they're actually a Townie, you don't know that. But in this case, you know precisely whether the person is a Townie or not - as you're bringing evidence against yourself. If you are a Townie, then you're bringing evidence against an innocent Townie -- which a Townie would never do (that's the paradox). The only possible solutions here are 1) You brought up the evidence without explanation for some unspoken reason, or 2) You are Mafia trying to seed confusion. So...

2b. I suggest you give us your explanation to exonerate self for that evidence, and, now, your reason for not giving that explanation immediately upon bringing the quote up.

My only explanation for not mentioning the above in that post, was that I was super tired, and forgot to write it.

2c. (You may suggest that you brought it up to show that you're willing to 'call one on yourself' so-to-speak, for the benefit of the team. That if you were Mafia, you would want to hide that evidence and not mention it yourself. Before you do make that argument, I'd like to say that I find it utterly unconvincing, as there is WIFOM territory there. Ie: A member of the Mafia trying to pass would make the exact same argument.)

To be honest, that also went through my mind at the time, but you're right, mafia could do it too.

Another thing that I now see is confusing, is that I was writing the first post before Porkens posted, and only saw his after posting. Hence the second post.

[Phelan]

Why are you advocating L-1 on Platypus? Isn't this group pressure to claim? Also, I don't think the effect will be the same by now as when Porkens posted.

Why are you helping? I don't see any reason for your vote besides Porkens saying that we were connected. That makes me believe you're only trying to throw suspicion off yourself.

The reason wasn't as explicit as I thought, but it was there:

(snipped quotes)
I took the liberty of providing the proper context for your quote. And I'm not too thrilled about this. Quoting something out of context is one thing. But to leave an unexplained "this stuck out to me" dangling around... Either you're being extremely careless, or you're deliberately trying to make that comment look suspicious.

Yeah, I find this strange too. Hence my vote not being random anymore.

I was voting for you because you seemed the most suspicious person at the time because of that.

[Phelan]

Phelan: Misquoting someone is against my 'Code of Honor' if you will. I wouldn't do that on purpose regardless of alignment because I wouldn't want to win that way.

I've read the rest of the posts by now, and I think you have said it or something like it before.
However, I have no way to verify that.

I'm not so sure about my vote now, though. From the posts that happened between now and then(just finished reading them), I didn't suspect you as much. It might also be due to me being absent, so I'll wait until I reread to be sure.

[Phelan]

Oh, and to make it official:

Unvote, Vote: Platypus

I found this during re-reading, but the only prior vote I could find was on Platypus as well. Did I miss one?

I saw that too and figured he was unvoting his random vote and voting his unrandom vote in an attempt at cleverness. Or has bad book keeping skills and thought his random was for someone else.

I was indeed unvoting my random PlatypusDude vote, and putting down a serious PlatypusDude vote.
I don't think it was an attempt at cleverness. It was mostly a matter of record, as I thought it mattered.
Speaking of which, do the votecounts show the order of votes? Should my vote be the third or the first, in that case?

I just realised... I hope I have an isle seat... Perferably near the back so I can bolt myself in the Lavatory should the captain switch the "buckle seatbelt" sign to "kiss your ass goodbye"...

What do you mean by this? I know it's a joke, but I didn't get it.

(snipped quote)

But if it makes you feel any better: only Porkens is higher up my suspicion list right now.

I might still vote for you if lynching him turns out to be infeasible today.

(snipped part of post)

However,... Saying "Porkens is higher up on my suspicion list" and

"I may change votes if his lynch seems inevitable"

is not alright. Do a little search by author on yourself and tell me when the last time you actually said anything remotely close to questioning him and helping his lynch? I'll help you out.

(snipped rest of post)

The bolded parts are not equivalent. Are you implying, or putting words in his mouth?

Also, are you trying to start a different bandwagon to protect PlatypusDude?

[Phelan]

Porkens, at post 285 you said:

I think a lynch would do wonders for the game; our day 1 is bordering on the academic at this point.

Did you mean that you had thought no-one would change their votes at that point, or that you are sure that PlatypusDude is scum? Or was it something else?

[Phelan]

Speaking of which, do the votecounts show the order of votes? Should my vote be the third or the first, in that case?

By the way, this part of the post was for Korlash and Porkens, as IC's. If anyone else knows, feel free to answer.

[Phelan]

The bolded parts are not equivalent. Are you implying, or putting words in his mouth?

Also, are you trying to start a different bandwagon to protect PlatypusDude?

I agree they are not equivalent hence why I put it in "'s and not litterally quoing it. However if you feel the words I used changed his meaning then feel free to correct me. My intentions were not to change his words or put words in his mouth, simply to write something quick that borderlined explained what I was talking about. I do appologize for writing "inevitable" when I meant to write "infeasable" as those two words are completely different.

Almost opposite meanings.

And do you have any evidence I'm protecting PD or do you honestly think I'll let yu get way with such a bogus and false implication? Are you trying to plant seeds of disbelief in my case on Muzzz? Are you protecting him?

My case has nothing whatsoever to do with PD in anyway and to even ask such a question without any supporting evidence is scummy on your part.

Not much evidence, just the timing. You posted your attack and vote shortly after Porkens said that a lynch would do wonders. At that point Platypus was clearly ahead with 3 votes. Suddenly he and muzzz (who Platypus is voting for) were tied at 3.
Other than that, your (and Archaist's) case seems good.

I still think Platypus is suspicious, both for that strange misquoting that eventually got Wolf (now mikey) to claim, and for defending with "a matter of honor".
The only thing I have against lynching him is a bit meta and could be WIFOM, so I'm not sure I should trust it.

I finished reading everything that's happened

Hey Mikey77. You're a fast reader...

[Phelan]

Ugh, forgot to correct the quotes. My nick is Phelan, not Phalen. Looks really weird like that.

[Phelan]

Mikey, this is a newbie game, so us messing up is expected. Given that, did you notice that your vote on Muzzz would be the final, and that he would be lynched? What were your reasons for finding him suspicious?

Mordy, why the absence? Your last post was on April 14.

Almost opposite meanings.

Ok replace whatever he said with what I put in quotes. It would be pretty stupid of me to intentionally misquote him in the same post I literally quoted what he said no?

True, but it's still a strange slip of the tongue. Especially if you had the quote right above the text you were writing, don't you think?

Not much evidence, just the timing. You posted your attack and vote shortly after Porkens said that a lynch would do wonders. At that point Platypus was clearly ahead with 3 votes. Suddenly he and muzzz (who Platypus is voting for) were tied at 3.
Other than that, your (and Archaist's) case seems good.

unless I'm mistaken what I posted my attack for Muzz did AFTER Porken's said that so the timeing is his fault not mine.

Okay, the attack's timing was his fault, I give you that.

But I went back and reread your posts, and you were actually attacking him before, on post 252. Why didn't you vote for him then?

To be honest, I still think your case on Muzzz wasn't bad, and I was reaching when I asked about the bandwagon. But given that I now know he was a townie, and the above, I'd like to know why you were pushing so hard for his lynch.

And the same question goes to Platypus.
Besides that misquote that you defended from with your 'Code of Honor', you voted on Muzzz because of a joke he made, when he was supposedly even with delathi according to you, and then went toe to toe with him.

I don't want to start associating without a scum body for proof, but you two are making it hard.

[Phelan]

But I went back and reread your posts, and you were actually attacking him before, on post 252. Why didn't you vote for him then?

Can't be 100% certain unless I go back and reread it all and I'm not going to do that now but I assume because I didn't feel I had enough to vote him and/or I didn't feel the vote mattered at the time. I am not the type of player that feels the need to use my vote every single time. i often multitask, attacking multiple people at once, and thus the vote is just a distraction. It's also why I self vote day 1 and often end up leaving my vote on myself. Day one is the day I jump around the most, and so the vote is even less useful.

But that's just how I play. A lot of people always use their vote and that's cool too.

Okay. I'll try and read some of your games during the weekend to confirm it.

To be honest, I still think your case on Muzzz wasn't bad, and I was reaching when I asked about the bandwagon. But given that I now know he was a townie, and the above, I'd like to know why you were pushing so hard for his lynch.

... Because I had a good case on him...

I was expecting a bigger response, maybe a case recap... But yeah, he was behaving strangely.
Just one more thing about your case: Did it depend in anyway on Porkens being his scum partner? You mentioned that it was likely.

Also, just an FYI IC tip. Don't use the phrase "to be honest"... There are some people who tend to view it as a scum tell, and it also gives the impression you aren't in fact being honest. Like I said, just a tip.

Thanks. It's something I use(along with "to tell the truth") way too often in real life as well.

I don't want to start associating without a scum body for proof, but you two are making it hard.

Are you talking about associating me and Plat? because Associating me and Plat right now is kinda a stretch. The only real thing is we both were on Muzz's wagon, and you have already admitted my case was good, meaning me being on it is completely justified.

There were two other people on the Muzzz wagon, but none of them were as active in pushing the lynch as you two.
Muzzz also called our attention to this:

(...)

Platypus

His "I don't like giving reasons" stinks. In particular cases it can be justifiable for a townie to want to keep something to themselves. But saying you don't want to give reasons in general is just not pro-town.
I also didn't like his supposed reason for voting me. And how he suddenly stopped pushing it while the both of us were still arguing.

What I find particularly funny about that is that he stopped right after Korlash voted for me.

(...)

It also seems to me you never really attacked Platypus. Am I wrong?

But perhaps I am getting too paranoid. Assuming that both scum were in the bandwagon might be too much. Maybe even assuming one was could be wrong.
Do you think there were scum in the bandwagon? Is it likely for scum to be on any given bandwagon?

I probably also need to reread the whole thread to see if the new knowledge brings something up.

I'd still like replies from Platypus, MordyS and Mikey to my previous post. Especially the last two, since they have posted after it. Did you miss it?

[Phelan]

There were two other people on the Muzzz wagon, but none of them were as active in pushing the lynch as you two.

Correction: three. Forgot about Mikey. I really can't count today.

Also, now that I have a new post open, is there any reason for you guys to keep misspelling my nick?

[Phelan]

I'm not sure why everyone is missing this but Mikey hasn't said why he found Muzz, Porkens, or Mordy suspicious.

Actually, he posted about MordyS on 379. He used other people's comments as his reasons, the way I read it.
But it is a good question:
Mikey, why did you find Muzzz, Porkens and Mordy suspicious? If possible use your own words, and quote or give post numbers for what made you feel that way.

As for being quiet during Muzz's lynch, I agreed with enough of the points against him, but I had nothing to add.

You could have added your agreement. Korlash said he agreed with Archaist's point.Why didn't you do it?

But given that I now know he was a townie, and the above, I'd like to know why you were pushing so hard for his lynch.

And the same question goes to Platypus.
Besides that misquote that you defended from with your 'Code of Honor', you voted on Muzzz because of a joke he made, when he was supposedly even with delathi according to you, and then went toe to toe with him.

Why?
I'd still like a reply to this. I don't think you need a reread to reply to it.

There were two other people on the Muzzz wagon, but none of them were as active in pushing the lynch as you two.
Muzzz also called our attention to this:

So you're saying the other two were less acive... and that makes them more town? I would hink that makes them the best suspects.

Note: There were three others, not two.
It would, but Porkens has now flipped town, and Mikey seemed a real newbie. As for Archaist, I had a town read on him. I'll have to check his posts.
What surprised me about the lynch was how quick the bandwagon was, and when it started, so that's why I found the two most active people on it suspicious. My previous suspicion on Platypus didn't help.

[Phelan]

Why is it you are overlooking my actual excuses and instead focusing on something that isn't an excuse and playing it up like one? You're not making the mistake of trying to strawman me are you? *chuckles a little* No... You would never do that...

I picked that line because it stood out to me. Did I ever say that was the only excuse you made?

It was not my intention to set up a strawman attack, but yes, I

would

do that if I thought it would help the town.

This is strange. How do you think a strawman attack would help the town?

[Phelan]

First, sorry for not posting yesterday, I was exhausted when I got home.
I don't have much time right now, so just a few things.

First, I can't believe I missed post 384...

My suspicion is simply that among those who lynched the townie on a bandwagon (one that formed quickly,

I agree with you here, the bandwagon seemed quick.

without much conversation, and with little proof)

This is clearly false... Muzzz and Korlash had a lot of back and forth. It was one of the reasons I've attacking him, for being the main person to promote the Muzzz lynch.

, we'd likely find a scum or two. I explained why I was suspicious of Wolf (now Mikey) yesterday, as well as Platypus. I'm not really sure what stuff directed at me I tried to avoid. Basically any accusation against me has come down to a Too Townie argument. But I'm willing to entertain any questions.

Why, thank you, your Majesty. How gracious of you...

I've got nothing to hide. Ask away, I'll try to answer anything I may have inadvertently missed. (Why I was missing for a few days -- it was the end of the Passover holiday and then the restart of University. I thought I actually poked in once or twice before the day ended and then I was silent for obvious reasons.)

You poked in once or twice, but didn't post for almost 3 days. During a bandwagon that you think was too quick, had little explanation, and little proof?

FoS: MordyS

This post reads to me as: "I'm so glad I wasn't on the Muzzz lynch, now I can attack people in it at will."
It's pretty scummy, or maybe just very arrogant, as has been said.

If it were longer in the day, or it didn't put you at L-1, you'd have my vote.

You could have added your agreement. Korlash said he agreed with Archaist's point.Why didn't you do it?

1. It's sort of spammy to only post 'I agree'.
2. Someone was attacked in a game that I read for posting '^ agree' or 'This.'
3. Korlash didn't only post 'I agree..' He also had more to attack Muzzz on.

I'd say it would be more than pretty spammy, it would also look pretty scummy to just agree with someone jumping on your bandwagon vote, especially if he would later turn up town. You knew about it from a game you read, like you said. Were you consciously trying to avoid this?

I'm still waiting for your reply to this:

But given that I now know he was a townie, and the above, I'd like to know why you were pushing so hard for his lynch.

And the same question goes to Platypus.
Besides that misquote that you defended from with your 'Code of Honor', you voted on Muzzz because of a joke he made, when he was supposedly even with delathi according to you, and then went toe to toe with him.

Why?
I'd still like a reply to this. I don't think you need a reread to reply to it.

Any reason for you to keep ignoring it?
Also, have you reread the lynch yet?

[Phelan]

Phelan: I'm confused why you would think I was pushing for his lynch. If anything, I wasn't too much involved besides my vote.

I don't really know why I missed that post...

You have 5 posts attacking Muzzz:
270, 277, 281, 284, 294, then you stop while korlash attacks.
Korlash has 3 before he votes, then you post your last one, and then 5 more.

Archaist had two posts.
Porkens had two as well, if you don't count his OMGUS vote post.
Mikey just had one, his hammer vote.

So you were the second most involved with the lynch.

What about your initial reason for the vote being a joke he made? Why did you keep the vote after he had said it was a joke?

Also, I just noticed while counting the posts that you had had 3 votes on you for a while before you voted. Were you trying to shift attention?

I'd say it would be more than pretty spammy, it would also look pretty scummy to just agree with someone jumping on your bandwagon vote, especially if he would later turn up town. You knew about it from a game you read, like you said. Were you consciously trying to avoid this?

I think not saying anything at all is more scummy than just agreeing, so I was just trying not to spam. =/

I'm not sure I agree with the order of scummyness of the two, but ok.
However, that explanation begs another similar question: Were you consciously avoiding behavior(spamming) because you thought it was scummy?

And I finished rereading the lynch. Mikey is my top suspect for saying 'Muzz is suspicious to me' *hammers* and not giving any more reasons for others that he finds suspicious, and I'm less suspicious of delathi.

I have been discounting Mikey for extreme noobishness, but Korlash is right in saying that he could be newbie scum. I'd like to hear more from him.

If wolf is scum, we got lucky, if he's a townie, we're in Lylo based on what you're saying.

From the Wiki:

It is 'Lynch-Or-Lose' when a Day dawns with one less Scum (on the same Faction) than the number needed to Lynch; two Mafia among five players, for instance,

You were wrong, right? Two Mafia among seven is not lynch or lose, according to the wiki.

I've reread Archaist's posts, and he still reads as town. I'd like for him to post more often, but then I'm a pot calling the kettle black.

I still have to read some of Korlash's games to check on what he said...

[Phelan]

And FYI, PD is the only other person I have played with recently so my views on him will be slightly different then on anyone else as I am using that game as well. Not that that's an excuse mind you.

Given this, what's your read on Platypus?

[Phelan]

You have 5 posts attacking Muzzz:
270, 277, 281, 284, 294, then you stop while korlash attacks.
Korlash has 3 before he votes, then you post your last one, and then 5 more.

The things in those posts are the 'final straws' in me voting Muzzz. They were just little things that I wouldn't vote someone on by themselves.

Were there other things before these 'final straws'?

So you were the second most involved with the lynch.

I'd say that I argued with him the second most.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Also, I just noticed while counting the posts that you had had 3 votes on you for a while before you voted. Were you trying to shift attention?

No. Did I think people would vote for Muzzz based off what I said? No.

I didn't think so too, your case wasn't very convincing.

You missed a question:

What about your initial reason for the vote being a joke he made? Why did you keep the vote after he had said it was a joke?

I'm not sure I agree with the order of scummyness of the two, but ok.
However, that explanation begs another similar question: Were you consciously avoiding behavior(spamming) because you thought it was scummy?

You think posting 'I agree.' is more scummy than posting nothing? Personally, I disagree.
That's sort of what I answered in my last post. I was avoiding spamming by posting nothing, which I think is more scummy.

I do.
One is a way to passively hide, the other is a way to actively hide. I don't have much experience here to be able to say one is definitely more scummy than the other, so it's mostly a gut feeling the active hiding is scummier.

I also had the opinion that avoiding scummy behavior consciously was scummy in itself, but like someone said, townies also have to avoid scummy behavior to help the town.

You left part of the quote out:

Trigger happy newbie townies hammer as well. If wolf is scum, we got lucky, if he's a townie, we're in Lylo based on what you're saying.

Korlash was suggesting that if someone quick hammers, we lynch them next. I argued that there are some newbie town players that may hammer, thus, putting us in lylo.

Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about one lynch, not about two.

Korlash has 3 before he votes, then you post your last one, and then 5 more.

I had like 10... Why are people continuing to fail to notice my earlier interactions with Muzzz? Those attacks and points did not go away during my period of inactivity?

And yes, you're ame is misspelled on purpose! next time I hope you don't ingore my stuff! ;_; I thought you were better then that!

I didn't count your vote in the above, so according to my count it would be 9 (3 before+vote+ 5 after). I didn't count all interactions because some of them were just defences, not attacks. I was trying to count just attacks. I tried not to, but I might still have miscounted. Which ones did I miss?

Archaist had two posts.
Porkens had two as well, if you don't count his OMGUS vote post.
Mikey just had one, his hammer vote.

So... Mikey put forth no effort at all into the wagon except to end it? You find nothing wrong with this at all?

I do. I've asked him two questions, one he did answer, and another he didn't yet. I don't have much on him to question yet.

Given this, what's your read on Platypus?

If I were to 'guess' I'd say not cop... That's as close as I can get right now. I don't find your attacks on him to make a lot of sense. I mean how is it the two msot active people on a wagon are taking more heat for it then the guy who never said anything and hammered the guy? It doesn't make sense. So I'm currently feling a sort of kindred defense towards Plat based on this and that always effects my read on people. Right now I say town but it's a biased oppinion so I wouldn't really trust it.

Do you think my questions don't make sense? Or is it just that I've been pushing him and you the most that doesn't make sense?
If it's the second, it's because my gut still points to him. Since I had a few questions that he hadn't answered, and you were both responding, I've been pushing to get them answered.
If it's the first, let me know which.

I also found it strange that you would mention "not cop". I was expecting a "town/not town" read. I'm going to read the game you were both in together. I assume it was NG 700, from Platypus' IGMEOY post?

[Phelan]

Why is it you are overlooking my actual excuses and instead focusing on something that isn't an excuse and playing it up like one? You're not making the mistake of trying to strawman me are you? *chuckles a little* No... You would never do that...

I picked that line because it stood out to me. Did I ever say that was the only excuse you made?

It was not my intention to set up a strawman attack, but yes, I

would

do that if I thought it would help the town.

This is strange. How do you think a strawman attack would help the town?

Archaist, you still haven't answered this.

Also Mikey, your lurking isn't helping your case.

Mod, could you prod Mikey77?

/*
* Prodded
*/

[Phelan]

I still think Platypus is suspicious, both for that strange misquoting that eventually got Wolf (now mikey) to claim, and for defending with "a matter of honor".
The only thing I have against lynching him is a bit meta and could be WIFOM, so I'm not sure I should trust it.

What was the other thing? You may or may not want to trust it, but it might be handy to know it.

It was the fact that he was the one that asked the mod to prod me, according to him(post 258). The reasoning was that scum would be more interested in having lurking players, so they could hide among them.

[Phelan]

Platypus, I believe I've given explanations earlier. When I get a proper chance, though, I'll go back through my posts and highlight the pertinent details. Most tellingly, I think, and something I haven't brought up yet: You've had 3 votes on you for the majority of the game time so far, and there's been nary a peep or protest from you. It's as though you're hoping that by lying low long enough, people will just get bored on move on. The longer we go with votes on you, and you being under-responsive, the more I'm ready to lynch you.

How do you feel about Platypus now?

[Phelan]

Responding to prod. I have a lot of catching up to do, I've been busy recently due to project deadlines coming up... I have now finished them both, but i still have a presentation on friday, after that then i can actually participate again because that is the last thing that i have to do this week. sorry for the lack of posts, will post after reading what has happened at about lunchtime

I'm not sure what's your timezone, did you manage to read at lunchtime?

[Phelan]

I didn't count your vote in the above, so according to my count it would be 9 (3 before+vote+ 5 after). I didn't count all interactions because some of them were just defences, not attacks. I was trying to count just attacks. I tried not to, but I might still have miscounted. Which ones did I miss?

The stuff on an earlier page having to deal with him being L-1 happy. It happened a good 10 pages before I voted him but that doesn't mean it's ignoreable.

Thanks.
You're definitely right, I missed that. Next time I'll try to be more thorough.
The posts I missed: 107, 112, 121, 126, 139
These were before his absence and return.
When you came back you mentioned you remembered being suspicious of Plat and Arch, but not being sure why(post 252). Had you forgotten that previous discussion with Muzzz, since you didn't mention him?

Do you think my questions don't make sense? Or is it just that I've been pushing him and you the most that doesn't make sense?

I remember reading one or two particular questions or attacks against him from you that I just found to make no sense what-so-ever. I think I had just scanned the thread right before I said this and so they stuck out to me. Let me go back and see if I can't find them..

Rereading I think it's the "failure to agree" thing you pressed on him. I just found that entire line of questioning on your part to be senseless and alittle reaching. I mean "Why did you not add your agreement?" I just don't see the point in a question like that. It's way to specific in a subject that should be broader and it seems untown to do that.

Let me explain that, you are pretty much asking him why he was so quiet on the Muzzz wagon yes? So instead of saying "Why didn't you respond to this one specific point?" you should just be saying "Why didn't you comment on anything?" It just doesn't make sense to use that as a main point unless you are going to question him on every post he didn't comment on.

That actually looks to be the only attack from you I don't like. I might have been tired when I wrote that last post of mine so I might have made it look like a bigger deal then it was.

Yes, I didn't mean it in relation to just that point, I meant it for the whole discussion. I was trying to say that even when you don't have your own different points to make, you can agree with other's points, and press the player yourself.
I pointed out your agreement with Archaist as an example.

I think it is scummy to just agree and don't press, so I was also trying to see if he was consciously avoiding scummy behaviour, because I thought it could be a scumtell. I've changed my opinion on that.

I also found it strange that you would mention "not cop". I was expecting a "town/not town" read. I'm going to read the game you were both in together. I assume it was NG 700, from Platypus' IGMEOY post?

Yup, he was the cop. (unless I've gotten my games mixed up in which case forget everything I've said on the topic.)

I cannot give a town/not town answer. I haven't played with him as scum, and people act differently from a power role and a vanilla town. They even act differently with different power roles. And I'm not even completely sure he isn't the cop. Like I said thats only if I HAD to guess.

Yeah, that makes sense. I haven't read the whole game yet, but I agree, he does seem to be playing differently here.

[Phelan]

How do you feel about Platypus now?

I think I mentioned this earlier, but I may not have. He's my number two suspect after Mikey. I think his role in the lynching was suspect (poor arguments, leaving his vote on,

claiming today that he was surprised anyone voted with him

), and I don't think there's been any mitigating information to make him less suspicious to me than he was yesterday.

Where did he claim that?

Did you know you didn't mention the poor arguments before day two, just the vote-leaving?

I had looked at your posts before posting 422, and saved a few notes, which I've now checked back on.

You didn't attack Platypus that much on day 1, for someone you believed to be scum. Just 6 posts out of 27 were directed at him.
You seem to just plop a vote on him, and then go after others. Then you remember your vote is still on him and post again.

I had quoted the post below(which you omitted from your quote. Why?) because it promised details which never came, until now. This is a bit of a theme in your Platypus suspicions:

Platypus, I believe I've given explanations earlier. When I get a proper chance, though, I'll go back through my posts and highlight the pertinent details. Most tellingly, I think, and something I haven't brought up yet: You've had 3 votes on you for the majority of the game time so far, and there's been nary a peep or protest from you. It's as though you're hoping that by lying low long enough, people will just get bored on move on. The longer we go with votes on you, and you being under-responsive, the more I'm ready to lynch you.

Post by post:
149: You see a possibility of Platypus and Wolf(now Mikey) as a scum pair, so you vote Platypus and ask Wolf to put him at L-1.
159: You say you wanted to promote some drama and get people talking. You attack Platypus for not having done so.
174,175: These seemed more like requests for clarification than attacks. Were you trying to attack him here?
185: You say Platypus has not eluded suspicion enough for someone who has 3 votes. However, you were the one to place the third vote on him. I might be wrong, but this seems like the kind of circular logic Porkens was criticized for using in his "vote. Please claim" post and explanations.
232:This has a note about Platypus having the second lowest word per post ratio.
264: You are comfortable lynching Platypus, because he's the most suspicious for you. No other reasons given.
271: The above post. You never highlighted the "pertinent details" after this. You criticize him again for being at 3 votes for a long time and doing nothing about it.
After this, the Muzzz wagon unfolds. You poke in once or twice and post nothing, according to what you've said.
Your next post was on day two.
359: You vote Mikey because of the hammer. You apparently still feel strongly about Platypus, almost to the point of voting, but again post no reasons.

HoS: MordyS

Did I miss something? Did I get something wrong? Let me know.
I'd like to hear some more details on your Platypus case. What were you going to post before deciding to vote for Mikey? What were the pertinent details mentioned above?

[Phelan]

Where did he claim that?

Playpus writes in Post 141: "No. Did I think people would vote for Muzzz based off what I said? No."

Are you understanding that differently than I am?

I was. I didn't read it as surprise. I guess it depends on the tone you read it with.

Did I miss something? Did I get something wrong? Let me know.
I'd like to hear some more details on your Platypus case. What were you going to post before deciding to vote for Mikey? What were the pertinent details mentioned above?

First of all, I don't think six posts attacking someone is a light amount, particularly as one of those posts contained a vote (which, I know, Korlash doesn't see as particularly meaningful, but to which I disagree). My post linking Wolf to Platypus wasn't merely a speculation, but, if you read it, an attempt to explain what I felt was suspicious behavior in the light of a greater relationship. I wasn't randomly picking two people and saying they might be a scum pair. (If you disagree, please post it and specify what is bothering you there.)

I think it has been said before, probably in regard to that post, that trying to find associations without a scum body is not helpful. In that regard, it's speculation. It can generate theories, but is not conclusive. I also didn't like that in that post you also wanted Wolf to "disprove" your theory by putting Platypus at L-1. It looks like you are trying to trick or threaten him into it.

185: You say Platypus has not eluded suspicion enough for someone who has 3 votes. However, you were the one to place the third vote on him. I might be wrong, but this seems like the kind of circular logic Porkens was criticized for using in his "vote. Please claim" post and explanations.

That would only be circular logic if I said, "I voted for you because you have had 3 votes on you." I didn't. I said that his response to having 3 votes on him was underwhelming, and I continue to feel that way. I've been led to understand that the M.O. of scum is keeping a low profile and remaining as subtle and unhelpful as possible, and that's what I'm pointing to here. When Korlash and Archaist voted for me, I tried to address their concerns as often as possible and in long defenses. I've attempted to answer every question posed at me. (Which reminds me, Archaist and Korlash both still have votes on me - which of your questions have I not answered to your satisfaction?) When Platypus was under attack, he completely ignored the circumstances and barely responded. This argument was confirmed when I did a post analysis and saw how little of content Platypus had posted overall.

My reasoning for the possible circular logic was this:
You feel suspicious about him, so you put him at 3 votes. You don't push him, so he doesn't respond. He's at 3 votes and isn't responding, so you feel suspicious about him.

264: You are comfortable lynching Platypus, because he's the most suspicious for you. No other reasons given.

What's your question here? Of course I'm comfortable lynching the most suspicious person. Isn't that how this game works?

No question, I was pointing to the fact that you say you're suspicious of him, but don't mention any reasons.

You vote Mikey because of the hammer. You apparently still feel strongly about Platypus, almost to the point of voting, but again post no reasons.

The reasons were basically a combination of the amount Platypus had participated in the lynch and my previous suspicions (his low post rate, his attempts to stay off-the-radar). Moreso, something like "No. Did I think people would vote for Muzzz based off what I said? No." is very suspicious to me. You don't vote for someone unless you want others to vote with you. And my final reason was that Porkens had led the 3-vote assault on Platypus on the First Day. It makes sense, in that context, that he'd be the one nightkilled.

This last argument creates WIFOM: If it makes sense that Platypus scum would nightkill Porkens, it could also make sense that scum would frame Platypus by nightkilling Porkens.
It's best if you don't base your arguments on nightkills, I think.
I think the only thing we can draw from them is that they killed an innocent, because we can see the flip.

[Phelan]

Finished reading NG 700. Korlash replaced in twice!
Seems a bit unfair, although people seemed to have spotted your change in play. I didn't see the change myself. It was a fun read.
The next of your games I read, I'll try to avoid knowing beforehand who is who, it spoiled my fun a bit.

[Phelan]

delathi, why didn't you vote for MordyS when you posted 375?

You were suspicious of him the previous day, enough to vote for him. Why didn't you do the same today, since he just added another suspicious thing to what you had before?

[Phelan]

That's a pity, Claus, I was going to ask for a prod on Platypus, he hasn't posted in 3 days. And Archaist is close to that as well.
Have a good vacation.

Mikey, how did your presentation go?

[Phelan]

Phelan: You will become paranoid of Korlash being scum after a game with him.

Who says I'm not paranoid of Korlash being scum right now?

I'm most suspicious of Mikey still, and sorry about not posting. =/

I'll forgive you if you reply to my last post regarding you (415).
There's still two questions there. Why didn't you reply to it when you posted?

Well, Archaist hasn't posted for three days, and I see Mikey hasn't said anything yet... Even Korlash the Prolific is due a prod... Is there some regional holiday I'm missing?

I don't think discussion will advance much until Mikey posts some more (or is replaced), so we can get a better read on him.

[Phelan]

This last argument creates WIFOM: If it makes sense that Platypus scum would nightkill Porkens, it could also make sense that scum would frame Platypus by nightkilling Porkens.
It's best if you don't base your arguments on nightkills, I think.
I think the only thing we can draw from them is that they killed an innocent, because we can see the flip.

This is false actually. You should make arguments on the nightkills. However you need to take everything in.

For one this is a newbie game and Porkens was an IC. I, the other IC, pretty much lead the wagon on a townie. So between the two of us he was the obvious "NK" choice for most if not all newbie scum pairs. Looking at who Porkens was attacking as a possibility of why he was Nightkilled is fine too. In most games that is a legitimate way to start off new days.

However, with that reasoning, there's another possibility: You could have nightkilled Porkens to make it look like the scum framed you. Isn't this WIFOM? This is why I think it's pointless.

I'm not really much into the point in question here. I find it as equally likely Plat killed Porkens for fear as I think Mordy killed Pork to frame Plat. I don't actually think there enough call for a vote either way.

Well, Archaist hasn't posted for three days, and I see Mikey hasn't said anything yet... Even Korlash the Prolific is due a prod... Is there some regional holiday I'm missing?

-_-'

What?

[Phelan]

However, with that reasoning, there's another possibility: You could have nightkilled Porkens to make it look like the scum framed you. Isn't this WIFOM? This is why I think it's pointless.

I don't see how this "frames" me at all. a general feeling amoung newbies is that one IC is town and one is scum. It's insane for any scum IC to NK the other as it throws this coomon pressure on them. In addition, I had been pushing for Porken's lynch. In fact I had made a pretty big deal in making sure my case on him wasn't necessarily linked to Muzzz. NKing him would have cost me a much built up mislynch opprotunity.

The WIFOM here would be if I was trying to use his death to clear me, which I'm not. I'm just saying it's hardly likely he was killed for the sole purpose of framing me.

I see. I was going to say that I hadn't felt that way, but when I thought about it, I did. At the start you both felt town to me, but I then shifted more towards Porkens. It seemed to me he was doing suspicious things for unsuspicious reasons.
Are you saying that if one of two opposite nightkill cases is more likely than the other, then there is no WIFOM, so it's more viable for the night kill to be analyzable?
To me it still seems murky territory. I don't think I'll be using that until I understand it better.

What?

Not sure which one you are "what"ing me about so I'll explain both.

I think it is as equally possible Plat killed Porkens as it is Mordy killed him. Because of this I find the actual speculation irrelevant in this situation. This is a little confusing as I just called you out on it not being irrelevant but I was refereing to it as a whole there and as this individual situation now.

The face was for saying I needed prodding...
what satisfied, I'm shuting down...

The "what" was just about the smiley, I wasn't sure what you meant by it.

[Phelan]

Just posting to say I'm here.
Thanks for the clarification, Korlash. I think I understand now.

I'm too tired right now to check if everyone's answered all I had asked about, so I'll do that tomorrow. Hopefully we'll know more about the Mickey situation by then as well.

[Phelan]

What about your initial reason for the vote being a joke he made? Why did you keep the vote after he had said it was a joke?

I was still fine with my vote, and I thought he wasn't exactly telling the truth when he said it was a joke.

Any reason for thinking he was lying?

[Phelan]

I didn't count your vote in the above, so according to my count it would be 9 (3 before+vote+ 5 after). I didn't count all interactions because some of them were just defences, not attacks. I was trying to count just attacks. I tried not to, but I might still have miscounted. Which ones did I miss?

The stuff on an earlier page having to deal with him being L-1 happy. It happened a good 10 pages before I voted him but that doesn't mean it's ignoreable.

Thanks.
You're definitely right, I missed that. Next time I'll try to be more thorough.
The posts I missed: 107, 112, 121, 126, 139
These were before his absence and return.
When you came back you mentioned you remembered being suspicious of Plat and Arch, but not being sure why(post 252). Had you forgotten that previous discussion with Muzzz, since you didn't mention him?

Korlash, you didn't answer this.

Mordy, you didn't reply to my 430.

Mod, any news on the Mickey front?

[Phelan]

I just reread your 430 but still don't see a question in there. What exactly do you want me to respond to?

Well, do you agree with what I said?

I was expecting a response to this:

Did I miss something? Did I get something wrong? Let me know.
I'd like to hear some more details on your Platypus case. What were you going to post before deciding to vote for Mikey? What were the pertinent details mentioned above?

First of all, I don't think six posts attacking someone is a light amount, particularly as one of those posts contained a vote (which, I know, Korlash doesn't see as particularly meaningful, but to which I disagree). My post linking Wolf to Platypus wasn't merely a speculation, but, if you read it, an attempt to explain what I felt was suspicious behavior in the light of a greater relationship. I wasn't randomly picking two people and saying they might be a scum pair. (If you disagree, please post it and specify what is bothering you there.)

I think it has been said before, probably in regard to that post, that trying to find associations without a scum body is not helpful. In that regard, it's speculation. It can generate theories, but is not conclusive. I also didn't like that in that post you also wanted Wolf to "disprove" your theory by putting Platypus at L-1. It looks like you are trying to trick or threaten him into it.

[Phelan]

I think it has been said before, probably in regard to that post, that trying to find associations without a scum body is not helpful. In that regard, it's speculation. It can generate theories, but is not conclusive. I also didn't like that in that post you also wanted Wolf to "disprove" your theory by putting Platypus at L-1. It looks like you are trying to trick or threaten him into it.

Yeah, in hindsight it might have been a bad tact. I was hoping that Wolf would go ahead about vote Platypus, therefore putting some pressure on the person I suspected. I also assumed that one member of the Mafia wouldn't vote for another member out of fear that the other member would be hammered. Wolf ended up not voting, and

that 'bit' ended up doing a hammer later to someone else

. So... I don't know. Maybe it wasn't the best strategy but I was trying to sift through their allegiances there.

So you were trying to manipulate a possible townie?
I don't think that's acceptable behaviour for anyone that isn't confirmed town.
By the way, I'm not sure that I understood the bolded part. What do you mean by "that bit"?

[Phelan]

Im as much in a cloud as to what my predecessors were up to as you are.
Although the question seems very loaded.
A question phrased that way when answerd in pretty much anyway would make me look sucpisios to others, to much defence, scummy, to little defence, scummy, No defence, avoiding the question and thus scummy.

I do however agree with Mikeys previous FOS and phelans accusations on Mardy being manipulative. His statments are very verbose yet defencive enough to pass guilt from him on to someone else. Although this may just be sentencing myself to death if I am wrong.

Vote: MordyS

You do realize that this puts Mordy at L-1 (one vote away from being lynched)?
Is there anyone else you feel could be scum? If so, tell us who, and why, please.

[Phelan]

So you were trying to manipulate a possible townie?

This is a totally bizarre statement, Phelan. So it's not cool to try to trick anyone into giving anything away because everyone is a possible townie? Everyone here is also a possible scum.

It's a question, not a statement. And it was made with the context in mind. I'd appreciate it if you didn't quote me out of context. Or if you do, make sure the context is unnecessary.
I'll clarify the question: Were you trying to manipulate a possible townie into voting for the same person as you?
I'd appreciate an answer this time, instead of another question.

As for your question: Depends on the situation. If you can find a way to trick scum that won't also make a townie more suspicious, then yes, it's cool. I don't think I can do this yet, however. Can you?

By the way, I'm not sure that I understood the bolded part. What do you mean by "that bit"?

It's a colloquialism. Like, "that's his bit," or in old MUD games, you would say that an admin has a bit. It's like --- their role, as opposed to the person. It distinguishes the person from the office.

Ah, ok. Hadn't heard that one before. Thanks.

[Phelan]

Hmm, ok. If you say so.
How about the effect it would have on the rest of town?

Also, I forgot to ask, what's your experience level with Mafia? Have you played before on real life or other sites?

[Phelan]

Also not the doc.
Archaist, Delathi what say ye? Claim Doc or not doc?

I think that a real doc should counterclaim a doc claim, because if he doesn't, town might not trust him when he does come out.
If he comes out, the town now knows one of them is scum.

In our situation, it would mean we could lynch one today and the other tomorrow, and be sure of hitting scum, like Korlash said.

So far Mordy's explanations mostly seem alright. Can you reply to my 474, though?

Conji, however, still seems to be very accusative for someone who just outed a doc (possibly).

FoS: Conji

I was overlooking Mikey's hammer due to his very apparent newbishness, and Wolf's previous vanilla claim, but your "clever game" comment seems strange.

[Phelan]

By the way, uploaded an avatar.

[Phelan]

As there are no counterclaims, now either MordyS is the doc, or a Maf with a free pass. If he's the doc, and he protected Porkens, then at least we now know more about the setup. And I agree with Korlash, the cop should stay hidden.

As for your question: Depends on the situation. If you can find a way to trick scum that won't also make a townie more suspicious, then yes, it's cool. I don't think I can do this yet, however. Can you?

I think I can try. I don't think I shouldn't try to uncover Mafia out of fear that it'll make a Townie look suspicious. We have to lynch the Mafia. All of the Town wins if we accomplish that, so that's our primary goal.

Ok, thanks.

The thing is, you avoided a question again. First you avoid it by asking a question about my question, and now you answer only part of my post. This is the third time I'm asking it:

So you were trying to manipulate a possible townie?

This is a totally bizarre statement, Phelan. So it's not cool to try to trick anyone into giving anything away because everyone is a possible townie? Everyone here is also a possible scum.

It's a question, not a statement. And it was made with the context in mind. I'd appreciate it if you didn't quote me out of context. Or if you do, make sure the context is unnecessary.
I'll clarify the question:

Were you trying to manipulate a possible townie into voting for the same person as you?

I'd appreciate an answer this time, instead of another question.

As for your question: Depends on the situation. If you can find a way to trick scum that won't also make a townie more suspicious, then yes, it's cool. I don't think I can do this yet, however. Can you?

(bolded for visual recognition)

As for Cojin, I'm suspicious of him. I wasn't nearly as suspicious of Mickey and Wolf as I am of him.

[Phelan]

I also know its impact on the rest of the town if he gets hammerd and is town. im on the fence of unvoting or not, but as it is just a game I want to see how this plays out.

So, what would be the impact if someone had hammered?
Did you get anything from how it played out?

[Phelan]

Were you trying to manipulate a possible townie into voting for the same person as you?

I don't really understand what you're asking. EVERYONE is a possible townie at the moment. So yes, I suppose that's what I was trying to do, for the reasons I outlined earlier. But he is also a possible scum. So I don't really understand what you're trying to get at.

(And your insistence on phrasing the question this way is a lot like asking, "When did you stop hitting your wife?" There's an assumption in the way you ask the question and every time I try to address that assumption, you accuse me of dodging the question.)

The reason I insisted is that you didn't answer it, nor mentioned why you didn't answer it. I didn't see your previous response as addressing an assumption in the question at the time.

I was also annoyed that you removed the context of the question. It was about trying to manipulate someone into voting, not manipulation in general, and it seemed different without the context.

What I was trying to get at, is that trying to direct people's votes seems wrong and looks scummy to me.

I was also mostly interested in your reaction to the question, more than the answer. If you had answered straight away, I would not have pushed as much.
However, you kept not answering for quite a while, even though I pointed it out. That didn't look townish to me. It looked like you were dodging the question. Also, I read somewhere (probably another game) that you should not let a question go by unanswered, and it made sense.



I've just noticed that we only have a day until deadline.
Since I don't know if I'll be able to post before it, I'm leaving a vote.

Vote:Cojin

Though I still think Mordy acted strangely for a doctor, I'm tempted to believe him.
That leaves Platypus and Cojin.
The first is lurking close to the deadline and I still have a gut feeling that he might be scum. Nothing conclusive, though.
The second for almost repeating Mickey77's mistake. We had gone after Mickey a lot for the sudden hammer, and subsequent lynch of a townie, and Cojin's second post here puts Mordy at L-1.
Since Cojin and his predecessor have claimed vanilla, at least we know we're not losing a power role.


I'll try to come to the forum tomorrow, in case something else has come up and another lynch has better reasons.

I'm really tired now, so I hope this post makes sense.

[Phelan]

Forgot to say my vote puts him at L-2.
See you tomorrow.

[Phelan]

First, reply to Mordy:

I also have a question for Phelan. You've been probing about a few players (in particular me, Cojin, Platypus) but, as I remember it, fairly quiet on some others. I notice you ask some incisive questions (even if I disagree with a few of them). What do you think about Korlash, delathi and Archaist? Archaist has posted almost as little as Platypus today. Do you find anything suspicious about any of those three? Or are they above your suspicions at the moment?

I don't think any of them are above my suspicions, however at that moment I found them less suspicious than Cojin, Platypus and you.

I also didn't want to post a list of people I found less suspicious so close to a deadline. I don't think it's a good idea.

[Phelan]

So, if we mislynch, we lose, right? If that's the case, I don't think anyone should tunnel-vision anyone right off the bat (not that there is time for tunnel-visioning). I made that mistake in NG 700. Depending on how the day goes, we can have the cop (if there is one) claim, no lynch, or other things that aren't coming to mind right now. The cop should claim if he has a guilty (don't claim yet otherwise). I think the cop is guaranteed to have at least 1 clear, which is nice too.

I wouldn't say guaranteed. He could have been roleblocked two nights in a row, although it's very improbable that that would have happened.

I'm still not happy with Korlash's hammer (because you didn't bring up Cojin much), but I do realize it needed to be done. I'm also getting the feeling that the Archaist and Korlash conflict is townie against scum.

Any reason for that feeling?

[Phelan]

I also think Mordy is the Doc.
When he posted his 489, no one had said they weren't the doctor, so adding something that seems implausible like that wouldn't be something scum would do, I think. The way he mentioned the mod also makes sense.

The other possibilities Korlash mentioned could have happened, but it seems strange for scum to mention something like that if they weren't sure the mod would confirm it.

Korlash, I find you going after Archaist without mentioning any particular reason is suspicious. Why did you vote for him yesterday? Why are you voting him today?

[Phelan]

By the way, Platypus, if you were here rereading on the last few hours of Day 2, why didn't you post to say you were?
I agree with what Korlash said Yesterday: It looks as if you were waiting for someone else to hammer.

[Phelan]

I am still not certain about MordyS's claim.

However, assuming MordyS is telling the truth, Cojin moves to my #1 suspect based on three different player's individually and separately suspect actions.

Primarily, the thing keeping him from being the #1 suspect is the fact that my other #1 suspect is attacking him so vehemently.

A no lynch is bad also, and we are moving towards it rapidly.

Unvote
Vote : Cojin

What actions were those?

[Phelan]

Sorry guys, having a busy weekend.
Reading.

[Phelan]

I am still not certain about MordyS's claim.

However, assuming MordyS is telling the truth, Cojin moves to my #1 suspect based on three different player's individually and separately suspect actions.

Primarily, the thing keeping him from being the #1 suspect is the fact that my other #1 suspect is attacking him so vehemently.

A no lynch is bad also, and we are moving towards it rapidly.

Unvote
Vote : Cojin

What actions were those?

delathi, you missed this question...

[Phelan]

EBWOP:

By the way, Platypus, if you were here rereading on the last few hours of Day 2, why didn't you post to say you were?

I really didn't expect him to be hammered. Korlash had seemed content with his Archaist vote, and I didn't think Archaist would pop in, nevermind vote.

I seemed content with my lack of reasonings and stupid questions? And it was Delathi that poped in, not Arch.

I'm not sure if I misread you comment or you misread my answer. You and Archaist were the only people that weren't voting Cojin at the time besides me. I didn't think either of you were going to hammer him.

You were happy with a no lynch?

I meant that Korlash or Archaist hammering caught me off guard.

So you were expecting to hammer Cojin yourself? Or were you expecting Korlash and Archaist to let the deadline hit?

[Phelan]

Korlash, MordyS, I understand what you are doing, but I don't like it.

Mod: Can we have a prod on Archaist?

[Phelan]

Also by the way:

Vote: Archaist

[Phelan]

Oh right I should probably mention GG to you guys. I have a hard time going after the less active people so Del slipped by me. I had suspicoons of Phelan with his constant agreeing with me but I always found something else in someone else.

Duly noted. I think I agreed with the IC's more than I should.

I tried to play this game with a town mindset, without actually voting for delathi. I only noticed I was ignoring delathi too much when it was actually noticeable.

o_O

I looked at the thread and was like, 'The only people who aren't voting Archaist are me, delathi, and Phelan. The game can't be over." So, I was completely surprised by the scum pair, and I was indeed busy/not paying attention for most of the game.

How did you two get your votes 1 minute apart from each other? And why did you choose Porkens?

delathi has answered the first part.
Because I thought he would be hard to lynch, and delathi saying that Porkens and Korlash together would be hard to deal with.

Definitely the mod error made things a bit more difficult. I'm really glad Korlash wasn't the scum tho. After Porkens died (and I failed to save him), I was really concerned that now the only IC left would be scum, and as it was my first game, it seemed like that would be it. It seems more fair somehow that Korlash was Town like the rest of us.

Also, congratz to Phelan and Delathi, though I have to say: This is going to strengthen my inclination to attack early and often people who fly under the radar. If Archaist had been vocal sooner, I think we could have avoided a mislynch on him (and if everyone who took over Wolf's bit didn't do something suspicious, we could have done the same). I gotta reread the game now, knowing what I know. I suspect Phelan might turn some hints up, but Delathi - you really did not post much!

I probably will. Without rereading, the feeling I got from this game is that I kept seeing people say that such and such is scummy, and started to try and avoid it. I think I learned a lot from this game.

I'll see if there is any problem with posting a link to the secret scum thread.

I've seen other games where it was posted. I don't think there's a problem. Here it is: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/BwF4R9SnFUmR
As you can see, I kind of disagree with giving us unlimited daytalk abilities. But I might be biased, since I wanted to play cop and lynch Platypus.

GG, mobsters.

I enjoyed reading the past two days. Some parts were pretty funny, from an observer's perspective. Although being completely wrong is a bit of a pain.

Thanks. What parts?

I want to thank Korlash and Porkens for all they taught me, and the people who replaced in. Especially Cojin, who didn't have much of a chance from the get go.
Thanks for modding, Claus.

Also a note: MordyS, I never suspected you of having a power role, so well done there. I kept looking at Archaist and Platypus as the possible people with a power role.

[Phelan]

Happy Birthday Mordy!

Don't have much more to add to this thread. Would like to know what Porkens thought of the game, but maybe he wasn't following. Sorry for killing you night 1.