Newbie 738: NKOTB - Game Over - Town Wins!

[MikeSC6]

/confirm

Hey guys!

[MikeSC6]

bionicchop2 is the first, you get my vote. Purely arbitrary-

Vote: bionicchop2

[MikeSC6]

Coincidence in your (supposedely arbitrary)vote just makes me wonder.

I was in the process of typing my post when bionichop2 got voted for the first time. This whole little episode does seem suspicious to me, though-

Why would you get him that close to being lynched? So your scumbuddies can come in here and finish Bionicchop2 off?

It doesn't say exactly who you're talking to- and you don't support it with a vote. This looks like to me like you were trying to influence a bandwagon without explicitly being the first to start it. I'd noticed this last night (or earlier in the day, depending on your timezones) but I was hoping for some extra evidence- like if someone voted based on his influence and he then agreed with that voter. It didn't happen, though, and that route has been blocked off by other posts, so we can't be certain.

I believe Lester is town. If he was scum, he would've known that there were only two scum.

I'd go the opposite way- since we

all

know there are two scum- feigning ignorance about the situation is scummy. It might not be faking, but it's hard to call either way.

And it's interesting that straight after all this, LesterGroans went back into first-stage joke voting. It just seems fishy.

Quinnster's post seems to indicate town- he's making his first random vote after a succession of serious posts. Looks to me like posting before reading through the thread- which just doesn't seem like something scum would do.

[MikeSC6]

@LesterGroans: Alright, just wanted to get talking! Jlblue's probably just not playing, rather than intentionally not posting. I'm sure we would have heard something by now- any news on prods, or has anyone seen him/her online?

@AndyTony- could you give your reasons for voting, please? Your posts are fairly inscrutable. You've given us absolutely nothing to scrute!

[MikeSC6]

Oh,

Unvote: bionicchop2

[MikeSC6]

Vote: Bionicchop2

Any reason why? And I don't think it counts until you unvote your previous vote. I asked for a reason why you voted last time as well.

[MikeSC6]

***Unless his pro town signature means something I don't know about - that's a possibility, right?

If he's in more than one game, or had that signature since before the game started, I don't think we can read too much into it.

[MikeSC6]

So sorry guys, working on a big post now, I've been travelling the past few days.

It's cool- Jlblue still hasn't posted since the game started. It's gotta be replacement time by now?

And Mr. Dandy hasn't posted in a while.

[MikeSC6]

What reason would scum-Lester have to fake it?

I read it as faked naivete. "Oopsy-me, how many mafia are there?" you know? Foregrounding the idea that he didn't know about the mafia's numbers- when we know for certain there are two. It's hard to tell over the internet what's a mistake and what's a tell, though.

Why wouldn't scum do it?

I wouldn't have imagined scum to be that careless. But then it's quite possible that he's just clever scum. Or that there wasn't anything behind it at all!

These are just impressions, rather than a statement of "I think XXX is scum"- to try and kickstart some conversation, which is why I didn't vote or even FOS. We'll have a better chance of figuring this out if we post whatever impressions we get, I think.

There's been a fair few posts since my last visit, I'll have to have a look through.

[MikeSC6]

Welcome, Grandi!

[MikeSC6]

I get that he could have faked it. But scum don't fake things without a reason, and I don't see a compelling reason for him to fake it.

The reason would have been that it looks innocent. After going after a player for going to L-2, he explained it away with a claim that he didn't know how many mafia there were. It sounded like a play to me.

Why not? Does being town make ordinary people careless, or does being scum make careless people ordinary?

Posting without reading the thread (which is what it looked like to me) just doesn't fit with being scum. Scum would be looking to exploit things, I guess- not jump in with their first random vote after a period of serious votes.

Don't get me wrong- I'm not

at all

set on these opinions. Being repeatedly questioned about things that, as far as I can see, I explained quite fully in the original post makes it seem like I'm focussed on LesterGroans, which I'm not. Or that I have a clear opinion that Quinnster is town, which I don't.

Which is a reason why I'm against this whole "list your top 3 scum" business. If everyone else is the same as me then we have at most weak suspicions. Having to select three players can lead to these weak opinions being fixed, we'll feel like we have to stand by them- and scum can exploit it to either influence later picks if they post early or to strengthen earlier false picks (of which there definately will be some).

By all means, if you have three players to list- then share. But I wouldn't make it compulsory.

[MikeSC6]

Which is a reason why I'm against this whole "list your top 3 scum" business. If everyone else is the same as me then we have at most weak suspicions. Having to select three players can lead to these weak opinions being fixed, we'll feel like we have to stand by them- and scum can exploit it to either influence later picks if they post early or to strengthen earlier false picks (of which there definately will be some).

By all means, if you have three players to list- then share. But I wouldn't make it compulsory.

This bit was aimed in the general direction of AndyTony, by the way. And while I'm here- I just don't see this case against bionicchop2. It started off with a shaky- at best- foundation (the signature), and all the supporting evidence has been built on this. If anything, I'm suspicious of AndyTony's fixation on bionicchop2 as scum- I don't see how the evidence supports what seems like such a certainty on your part, AndyTony.

FOS: AndyTony

[MikeSC6]

There's a fair few people who've slipped under the radar recently- Grandi, Erratus Apathos, Mr Dandy and keyburrito haven't posted in a while. Actually, though- we've had a lot of posts in a relatively short time, so it's probably just relative inactivity- compared to the hyper-activity we've seen recently. This can't be be making it any easier for Grandi- he does have a lot to read through. We should give him some time, I guess.

[MikeSC6]

Hey guys, welcome to the game! Can't wait to get this kickstarted again.

[MikeSC6]

I think XXX is awesome! (TMI?)

Oh, I dunno. If we're gonna lynch today (which statistically we should) I think XXX should be the first to go

I'm a little embarassed that I don't know what TMI means also

As far as I can see, that is a good analysis. The game has been dominated recently by Bionicchop2 versus AndyTony- and I kind of fell into the trap of taking a side. I still think that the original evidence against Bionicchop2 doesn't hold up to any scrutiny... but that doesn't mean for certain he's town and AndyTony's scum.

AndyTony still seems the

most likely

to be scum, to me at least. It got fairly heated, but once "public" opinion went towards bionicchop2 he (AndyTony) was quick to dismiss what had earlier seemed to be such a certainty. His play has been very mercurial, to say the least.

If I'm honest, focussing on this episode completely drove everyone else out of my head! We have a wealth of information concerning a few players and next to nothing for the rest.

You're right, some players may feel artificially compelled to be unwilling to visibly change their weak opinions because they're paranoid about being called "wishy washy". Any such player is likely scum.

You know, that's a good point. We should give scum the opportunity to act like scum.

Maybe we could take AndyTony's idea about everyone commenting on three players, without naming those three players in the initial post. "I think A is scum because..." "B was suspicious because it seemed..." "C seemed like a townie when s/he said..." etc. And only post the names once everyone has posted their top three, to prevent scum from taking advantage easily- but still drawing some play out of them?

And if we make it so that we can comment on any three players- in case we don't have a top three most-likely-to-be-scum decided?

[MikeSC6]

Ah, cheers! XXX was originally a placeholder for any player, in an earlier post, as an example. There's probably something Freudian in my choice of "XXX" as the placeholder...

[MikeSC6]

Question about this. If you think he is most likely to be scum, are there specific reasons why you have not voted him? Also, I have not really seen you ask him any questions or do anything that would indicate you are trying to explore this any further.

I still wouldn't see AndyTony lynched on what we have so far- a vote would serve no purpose. It would put pressure on him, I guess- but I wouldn't want to do that. We have a week to go- I wouldn't want to waste it by focussing on a single player.

I haven't asked him many/any questions because I don't know exactly what there is to be asked. I'd rather go in a direction where we can gather information on everyone else as well- compare and contrast rather than judge a stand-alone case, which is where my slight modification of AndyTony's suggestion came from.

[MikeSC6]

Argh, I missed the quotation marks around bionicchop2!

Fixed.

[MikeSC6]

bubbles- why did you feel the need to claim your role? And you said you got what you wanted- a few reactions. Were those reactions what you suspected? Did they make you more or less sure of your ideas as to who is scum?

No one was talking about lynching you. Post #186 could be the scummiest thing I've read in this game so far, though.

Bionicchop, Like i said you and andy look scummy. I gave my reason for voteing on him over you. Im goign to say this once and once only im town vanilla town.

Lynch me but be warned when i come up town you will be the one they look at so you might want to talk to your partner and findo ut what to do about that.

(My emphasis). That sentence I find staggeringly scummy.

FOS: bubbles21112

I'm close to making it a vote, but I'd like to have some more discussion before taking any official action.

Thanks for fixing my quote elvis!

[MikeSC6]

bubbles, could you answer my questions please?

[quote-MikeSC6]why did you feel the need to claim your role? And you said you got what you wanted- a few reactions. Were those reactions what you suspected? Did they make you more or less sure of your ideas as to who is scum? [/quote]

[MikeSC6]

Yep- we don't have long til it's night, and not enough activity (and therefore evidence) that we can lynch with any confidence. But I read in another thread that it's considered axiomatic that a first day no-lynch is bad for town.

[MikeSC6]

We're still waiting for some responses from bubbles21112- and while I won't be putting a vote on Mr. Dandy (for obvious reasons, we've got a couple of days to go yet. We've gone from slothful to rash!)

Though I have to say I agree with AndyTony's analysis- especially since the what-looks-like a textbook "OMGUS" from Mr.Dandy.

But

, while Mr. Dandy has answered his questions in a straitforward manner- bubbles21112 has been dodging or ignoring the questions asked of her- and she's made posts after a lot of these questions have been made, so it's not like she's been away and not seen them.

So, I'm gonna-

Vote: bubbles21112

[MikeSC6]

I changed tack slightly after the first sentence (which is why it's worded strangely) and forgot to fix the sentence structure. "And while" shouldn't really be there, I was gonna add the bit about agreeing with AndyTony's analysis on the end of that sentence.

[MikeSC6]

Hi hohum!

bubbles21112: Could you please have a look at my post 191? That sums up why I think you're scum- the subsequent dodging and ignoring is what turned that suspicion into a vote.

[MikeSC6]

[quote= "hohum"]@Town: Also, I couldn't find her claim. Could someone point me to the post?[/quote]

Post 186-

[quote= "bubbles21112]Bionicchop, Like i said you and andy look scummy. I gave my reason for voteing on him over you. Im goign to say this once and once only im town vanilla town. Lynch me but be warned when i come up town you will be the one they look at so you might want to talk to your partner and findo ut what to do about that. [/quote]

It's even more scummy in context- she didn't give a reason to vote bionicchop2 over AndyTony- and she hasn't been answering any of our questions since.

[MikeSC6]

I'm a total

failure

at quote tags (fingers crossed my italics tags are right..)

[MikeSC6]

Deadline Rules: For a deadline lynch to occur, one more than half of the votes needed for a normal majority shall be needed for a deadline lynch. (If you need 7 votes for a normal lynch, you will need 4 to lynch at deadline. However, in a LYLO situation or a situation where there are 4 or less players remaining, normal majority rules will still apply for deadline)

So... with the normal majority being 5 today, a deadline lynch only needs 3 votes to happen. If nobody has at least three votes, game will go to night with a no lynch.

Also, if there is a tie, the player who reached that number first will be lynched.

Does this mean that Mr. Dandy will be lynched, being the first over the three vote thresh-hold, or bubbles21112, having an extra vote over the thresh-hold?

[MikeSC6]

@Mike: It means bubbles will be lynched first because she has the most votes (hovering at L-1 currently)

Ah, ok- thanks

[MikeSC6]

hohum is correct. Bubbles is currently the player that will be lynched.

Whoever has the most votes is always the player to be lynched.

Ta, best to be certain

[MikeSC6]

If there's both a cop and doctor, there must be a roleblocker too- so doc, keep your head down!

[MikeSC6]

AndyTony: It's

very

unlikely that bionicchop2 is lying. It could be a really convoluted play I guess... but if so it's one that I can't comprehend.

[MikeSC6]

I say we lynch EA tonight, and if the mob doesn't kill biochop tonight to prevent him from revealing investigation results tomorrow we lynch him then.

Wait, what? If bionicchop2 survives the night we lynch him tomorrow- a claimed cop? If he turns out to be lying, then we lynch him, sure. I guess that's what you mean, and that makes sense. But if EA is scum, we shouldn't lynch bionicchop2 if he survives... it would have to be one really convoluted play for scum to claim cop and then lynch scum, I don't understand how that would work at all- as far as I'm concerned, for the moment we can discount it.

[MikeSC6]

Vote: Erratus Apathos

The only thing on the wiki that could have bionicchop2 making a false claim, "Lepton's Gambit", isn't applicable to a game without "insane" cops.

[MikeSC6]

I'm sorry to hear that. Hope it's not anything too serious?

[MikeSC6]

They blocked me, so they know I'm the doc for sure now. I didn't protect bionicchop2 on the first night, though- it was Mr. Dandy, so I reckon that makes him a confirmed innocent?

[MikeSC6]

And Seraphim replaced Mr. Dandy- so I'm pretty sure Seraphim's innocent.

[MikeSC6]

I can't remember ever even considering Belvedere as scum- she seemed very helpful early on in the game after the replacement. I don't we can have "not voting for EA" as a reason to think she's scum, with a cop claim no one other than EA was going to get lynched yesterday.

But it would definately wouldn't be a bad thing to hear more from Belvedere on the subject.

[MikeSC6]

I just can't see it of Belvedere at the minute- sure she voted for bubbles21112- she was very prominent in that bandwagon, which ended up lynching a townie- but bubbles21112 certainly didn't seem like town. We had scummy behaviour from bubbles21112, then she dodged questions for several days. We reached the deadline without her answering our questions.

If we hadn't have voted for bubbles21112 then, Mr. Dandy would have been lynched at the deadline. And I reckon today we'd all be focussing on bubbles21112, which as she was a townie, would be pretty bad for us.

But then, I really have no idea! I'm still shocked that bubbles21112 turned out to be town considering her posts, and haven't been able to work out another likely "narrative".

[MikeSC6]

I keep saying "she", too! The name/avatar is in that kind of direction I'll stop that now.

[MikeSC6]

I find myself believing Belvedere. Really it boils down to not voting for EA yesterday, but if he had then someone else wouldn't have had the chance to and we'd be looking at them! We really should have spent day 2 hearing bionicchop2's opinions on everyone, I guess, rather than rushing into a lynch (which is partly my fault).

I've been re-reading bionicchop2's comments- and like he said, it is possible, if highly unlikely, that the scum

chose

not to kill anyone on the first night, so while I think it most likely that Seraphim is town we shouldn't rule him out.

Anyway, my opinion on the current zeitgeist is that the evidence doesn't condemn Belvedere as much as people think. Belvedere's concerns about bionicchop2 are legitimate, it could have been sacrificing one scum for an easy victory (though it would have been risky- he had no idea whether someone else was the cop.) We now know for certain that this isn't the case- and yet Belvedere posts her earlier suspicions, despite them having no concievable use for a scum play now that he's dead. It sounds like townie honesty, rather than any kind of "scumplay".

[MikeSC6]

AndyTony, can I just ask- how come you hammered EA, when there were questions open? Belvedere posted saying he wanted to hear more from Erratus Apathos- a defence from him, which could possibly have led to him implicating his partner accidentally. It would have given us a bit more to go on, and if he tried to manipulate us some more we could have gotten something from that.

You've been indicating town to me, but so has everyone who's left, so I don't think it's wrong to look down every avenue, trust no one. You could just be a good scum player, who hammered his partner before he could give anything away.

This is just too little, too late from me. I should have said yesterday not to hammer too quickly, or whatever. I was trying to keep my head down and throw off any doc-suspicions for the night :/

[MikeSC6]

It's been a while since hohum posted (even compared to the rest of us )

hohum: do you have any suspicions, or suggestions for what to do next?

Does anyone, for that matter?

[MikeSC6]

Since MikeSC6 pretty much confirmed Seraphim as town, I will...

It's still no

sure

thing. I think we discount people at our peril, when we're basing it on very-likely assumptions rather than concrete facts.

[MikeSC6]

Also, @MikeSC6: I haven't counted out Seraphim, or even you completely, for that matter(but I'm pretty sure you are doctor). Because, let's say scum finds out that the Doctor has protected one of their own on night 1. Would it not be a good plan to take a potshot at the protected scum, thereby alleviating a lot of suspicion once the doctor comes to bat for them and says they were protected?

Yeah, that's certainly possible. Seraphim hasn't tried to make an issue out of it, though. I think it's unlikely (I'm kinda see-sawing between "confirmed innocent" and "clever scum" with Seraphim. I'm leaning towards innocent.)

Also- on day one I had thought that AndyTony was a bit scummy. But he's been consistent and active throughout the whole game, so I reckon I was probably wrong. Does anyone have an opinion about reviving AndyTony's idea where we each comment on three people- to build some activity? With only the one scum left, it'd be less susceptible to scum hijacking, and it might help us get over this dry spell where everyone seems town

[MikeSC6]

I'm here! How about, as soon as Belvedere and Seraphim get back, we make some kind of plan to help bump up activity. Like commenting on a couple of players each, or describing how we each see the narrative of the game so far- to try and guage any trends we can agree on?

[MikeSC6]

So Mike - you seem active - tell me what your thoughts are between what's presented in Belvedere and Seraphim (Dandy)

I don't think we have enough evidence on either one that we could say they were scum with any confindence-

Belvedere- made, what I thought, were some good analyses at the beginning of the game, and then pursued bubbles21112 (but not in an aggressive fashion- he asked several questions, and gave a fair amount of time to answer them. Bubbles21112 turned out to be town, but she certainly didn't seem it.)
On day 2, Belvedere didn't immediately put a vote on Erratus Apathos- but I'm not sure that this is particularly scum behaviour. With an unchallenged claimed cop we weren't gonna lynch anyone else that day- I don't see it as buying time for Erratus Apathos, I shouldn't think scum would want to give their partner the chance to slip up under interrogation. It

could

have been giving EA the chance to try and incriminate another player though.

Seraphim, I'm not really sure. It's possible, if unlikely, that the mafia chose not to kill on the first night, which would have messed up any evidence I get from protecting. But if they did target someone, that someone was definately Mr. Dandy (so Seraphim). I don't have anything else to say about Seraphim, really- I had tended towards scum because of the OMGUS vote from Mr. Dandy against you, but I think we've seen from bubbles21112 that townies are perfectly capable of making, what seem like, obvious scum plays. If the other mafia-player is anything like Erratus Apathos, they'll have slipped completely under the radar rather than make text-book "scum plays".

[MikeSC6]

Happy birthday elvis!

[MikeSC6]

If it's the same as the last deadline, the lynchee has to have half the votes required plus one. So Belvedere's safe for now. I don't know how we can progress until Belvedere defends himself, though- we don't want to leave this conversation arc unconcluded, and we don't have anything concrete to go on elsewhere anyway.

[MikeSC6]

If I get lynched today it'll (most probably) be lynch or lose tomorrow- do you have a suspect for who it would be tomorrow? No need to say who, don't want to tip the scum off. If you've got a good idea of who's mafia, but need confirmation that I'm the doc, and this would give you confidence of your other suspect, then go ahead and lynch, I won't be able to do anything tonight to help (I'd expected to die at night, anyway.)

[MikeSC6]

Actually, yeah- no lynch tomorrow would give you an extra day at the very least. If you guys are confident you can find the scum in that time then this is probably for the best.

[MikeSC6]

Both you and Lester expressed passionately that nobody should come forward as the doctor. Why not keep it quiet JUST in case? What made you think you weren't setting yourself up to be killed by them if we don't figure out on this day?

On day 2 I said that, to try and get the scum looking elsewhere so I could protect bionic that night. But them having roleblocked me to kill bionicchop2 I thought there was no reason to keep from the town what the scum already knew.

Why would you protect Dandy instead?

Dandy had a bandwagon on him (so I kind of thought that scum would target him to implicate others- I can't really remember the reasoning behind this).

Why would scum go for Dandy instead of bubbles if they were after a quick lynch of a weak towny?

I'm not sure if this is directed at me? With hindsight I'd have thought scum would stick with lynching Mr. Dandy, which was going to happen until we started voted for bubbles. This is assuming Seraphim/Dandy's innocent of course. Bubbles, with that kind of play, would almost certainly have been lynched later on if we hadn't have done it on the first day.

If you guys are no-lynching tomorrow- do you have a decent idea of who you'd vote for in LYLO on the last day?

Also, if you need any more questions answering I guess you'd better be quick! Anything that might come in useful tomorrow or the day after?

[MikeSC6]

Also, it'd be nice to hear hohum's opinion on all this before laying down the killing blow, not posted in a while.

[MikeSC6]

Mike, if you aren't scum, who do you think we should look at tomorrow?

I don't have anyone who I'd pick in LYLO, there's one player I've grown uneasy about, though. I'm not brave enough to say who, in case I'm completely wrong again and it skews the game, and the scum could use it to get a final day mislynch if I'm wrong.

[MikeSC6]

Alright, but bear (is it bear or bare or some other b*** I don't know about ;P) in mind that this is just a hunch, it's not even a scum-identification, really. I'm just quite uneasy that we're all treating AndyTony like a confirmed townie, and we don't know if that's actually the case.

But, that could be from a scum player trying to buddy up to AndyTony, who has admittedly been consistent all the way through the game.

And the last few posts from AndyTony, trying to rush into a townie lynch before getting all the information we can? And like you said, we've had a long dry spell- and then near the end you want to all of a sudden rush into a lynch, despite being focussed on another player previously(waiting for them to respond, but then when they haven't after some time they're forgotten). I'd have thought you'd want to at least tie that loose end up before ending the day.

I suggest we use the couple of days we have left to figure out who you'd each vote for when it's lynch-or-lose. Not naming names, just an assurance that people are confident with their choice. The last thing we want is for it to end with three players who are all considered townies- gather some info on the players that'll still be around in a day or two, rather than rushing things. We all agreed we shouldn't have rushed into lynching Erratus Apathos.

[MikeSC6]

I gotta keep the vote in there. It feels good enough seeing as our supposed Doc can't rationalize why he protected Dandy instead of a high priority, and why we are to believe that not only did the scum choose not to kill bionic the first night, but chose not to kill Mike either as they would have had to have known he was the doctor to have made their actions so quick after EA's killing - - - there was nothing in between where he let himself get caught as the doc - the only discussion was about EA - it doesn't make sense, there's no room for his doc tell.

I thought I'd thrown them off on day 2, evidently not. Someone before suggested that Erratus Apathos's last words were directing his scumpartner to target bionicchop2 that night, I don't think it would have been smart for them to kill their doc-suspicion and leave a confirmed cop alive (with more evidence from the night.)

And you've got to remember that on day 1 we had no idea that bionicchop2 was the cop. I didn't give a second thought to his IC status. Day 1 left us with not a lot of evidence, the one I'd thought was scum turned out to be town- it could have been anyone, to be honest. Mr. Dandy was just high profile, which I had to settle for in lieu of a known high priority.

How come you've got your last three narrowed down to you, Belvedere and Lester?

[MikeSC6]

Bionic was worth protecting more so than Dandy - The IC status, and he was one of our strongest players (which is a fair statement).

It's easy to say that with hindsight- on day 1 you yourself had quite a lengthy back and forth where you seemed convinced bionicchop2 was scum. Why should I have been expected to be able to guess his alignment straight off any more than anyone else?

Bionic and Bubble were both being voted by townies - and technically bubbles was higher priority than Dandy by your reasoning.

bubbles21112 was a confirmed dead townie by this point. And that's the whole of the information I had at that point- I just picked a particularly high profile player.

And you still haven't explained why they would try to kill dandy instead of you (which is what we have to believe if we let you off the hook)

I had no reason to believe they'd attack anyone in particular, or to believe that they suspected me as doc. Day 1 was pretty much null information-wise.

The had a no kill night - they either CHOSE not to kill the unprotected and well playing Bionic AND the guy they suspected as Doc

Or they tried to kill Dandy because he was by your definition high priority, INSTEAD of bubbles who was more so and could have been killed for the same reason - - however they fialed because you protected Dandy?

Which one of the above is true, and can you explain the reasoning you suppose they would have? I doesn't jive well

What makes you think they had me as a doc-suspect by that point? Or that they suspected bionicchop2 as a power-role? I wasn't blocked on night one, and neither was bionic, so they didn't know who were powerroles that night. If it would have been common-sense to nightkill bionicchop2 as an IC, maybe they took that into account- not knowing if there was a doc or not to save him, and went for Mr Dandy? Or maybe there was a no-lynch and it's skewed the evidence we have.

And bubbles21112 was lynched before the first night.

I can't say what the scum's game has been anymore than anyone else (except for one, of course.) I think it's dangerous that, as you said, you have no one in mind for the last lynch. It seems like you're suddenly, out of the blue, putting all your attention towards myself- completely disregarding your unresolved suspicion from earlier in the day. And trying to force a quick lynch through because I can't explain the scum's game better than anyone else.

I'm gonna

Vote: AndyTony

- you've focussed on single players before. Namely bionicchop2 and Mr. Dandy (one a confirmed cop, one a possible scum-target). This kind of rush is certainly not town play. If the other players can post and just confirm, without naming any names, that they're confident they have a suspect for lynch or lose then I'll hammer myself. But if they don't, I think we should be looking to try and bag a scum player today with a second chance tomorrow. And you're the player that has been giving off the most scum vibes recently- this whole plan came suddenly, out of nowhere really, and you've been pushing to lynch me quickly without having a follow-through plan at all worked out. That's not town play.

[MikeSC6]

Actually, it was

Belvedere

who first started this line out of nowhere, straight out of a wagon on him- and then waited for you to vote before then appearing to back up your wagon (when really it's his.).

Unvote

Now I just don't know. Having two main suspects means I'm definately wrong about at least one.

[MikeSC6]

Scum had a no kill night. Chose not to kill Bioinic who was unprotected, IC, had a history with EA, and played as one of the more pro town players on the board. They also chose not to kill you, the suspected doctor - - we acknowledge they suspected your identity because there were no tells or room for tells between the lynching, night murder to follow, and you admitting it.

They couldn't have known he was unprotected- and having a history doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna nightkill him. This pro-town light you're giving bionicchop2 on day 1, I feel, is polluted by the information we recieved since. It's easy to look back and identify him as town when we know for certain that he's town- on day 1 I wasn't really even thinking of bionicchop2, other people had been pushed into the foreground and I just took a punt on one, not having any reason to go for anyone in particular. The scum couldn't have known if there even was a doctor until bionic got outed as a cop- and I can't say what it is they picked up on, or even if it was just a guess. I had thought I'd done a decent job of pretending not to be the doc.

Dandy and Bubbles are being voted by town. Scum like when townies die by town hands. You pick Dandy over Bubbles to protect for reasons still unclear. They ignore Bionic and a man they suspect as doctor and try to kill Dandy? But fail, because you protected him?

The reasonis quite clear, bubbles21112 was beyond my powers to help by this point. As far as I was concerned at that point everyone's alignment, after a null day 1, was equally ambiguous. I just chose someone who was high profile.

My focus on Bionic was premature in the game and when he and I were finished with our back and forths, you'll notice it was dropped since - I had accepted him as pro town.

You went from zealous certainty to accepting him as pro-town just like that before we had any new information? I can't see it. I've never been that certain about anyone, especially not someone I had previously thought of as scum earlier that day.

I'm not focusing on one player right now, I have you, belvedere, and Lester in mind - I am excited with the new light on your actions and the possibility of you not being the doctor - there's nothing wrong with that.

I know there's nothing wrong with it- what's wrong is trying to rush a lynch through without knowing how you'd follow it up. Say you end up on the last day with Belvedere and Lester- how would you pick between them and how would the other townie pick the right guy? Guess?

My voting on Dandy wasn't rash, I built a case. Don't try to down play how serious we should consider your life on the basis of us trying to hop out of the dry spell .

It's hopping out of a dry spell with a sudden zealousness for something that has popped up out of nowhere, with nothing new to back it up. What took you guys so long to bring this up if it was a concern? Why wait til near the end and then attempt to rush the lynch through without any further planning or discussion from everyone else?

You're asking me to defend myself by explaining what the scum did, when, and why. If I knew that we would have won weeks ago.

[MikeSC6]

This was kind of the reason I had asked for anonymous confirmation that everyone has a scum-choice. The scum can use this- you might get nightkilled and others might take that as Belvedere definately being guilty (or the opposite). Or if you don't, people might wonder why the scum would keep you alive if you've committed yourself to voting for Belvedere. Or people who had other inclinations might reconsider- and for all we know you could be a scum player intentionally nudging people in that direction.

I reckon we should no-kill today (that would still give us two goes at least- just narrowed down if the scum night-kill. And if they don't then we'll have more goes).

Vote: No Kill

[MikeSC6]

Why didn't you leave breadcrumbs in earlier posts if you're the doctor? Didn't want to chance scum finding it or didn't think it was necessary?

I was trying to look vanilla town- I knew there'd be no counterclaim if I ever had reason to declare my role (unless from the scum- which would have led to a scum lynch either on that day or the next, which would have been a fair trade.) I must have slipped up somewhere, or maybe it was just a lucky guess on the scum's part (who had been told, if we think EA was leaving a message, to kill bionicchop2 no matter what- indicating that night 1 went badly and they took a gamble).

[MikeSC6]

I thought you were going to no vote tomorrow to get it to a three way lynch or lose? Why not nudge that no vote over to today and then see what happens tomorrow? As things stand, you all don't have a solid suspect that you'll vote for in LYLO. More information between now and then can't hurt- you'll still have the same amount of lynches if you no vote now and wait til after the next nightkill.

[MikeSC6]

Yeah, they would I think.

Six now, lynch one, that's five. Nightkill, that's four. No lynch plus nightkill that's three.
Or six now, no lynch. Nightkill, that's five. Lynch one, plus nightkill that's three.

[MikeSC6]

Yeah, I think you can- no reason why not. I hope you can, I've been keeping an eye on the other game I had the choice of subbing into!

[MikeSC6]

If you're all set on Belvedere, then lynch away I guess. This way I can't be blamed for losing the game, at least!

[MikeSC6]

Ha, good game you crafty lot:) That's true, I made a ton of mistakes (sorry EA!) Like claiming to have protected Dandy (to try and "buddy up"), and voting for bubbles too early (I thought it'd be too late to save Mr Dandy, and would help set up a lynch of bubbles later on.)

Also, when voting for a "no lynch" I accidentally wrote "No kill," again, which I thought would lend credence to the "night one no kill" theory!

Also, it was my silly idea to no kill in the first place.

Here's the pm, for what I was thinking doing that-

"Hey Good day yesterday... I should have let Mr. Dandy get lynched, though. bubbles21112 would have been an easy day 2 lynch.

I’m just wondering what you’d think about a “no-kill” tonight?
Pros- If there’ a doctor, and they protected one of us they’d consider that one a proven townie.
If there’s a doctor, and they protected someone else they’d consider them a proven townie, and their comments in this direction might help us bag a power-role for the N2 kill.
If there’s no doctor- which we’ll know if someone claims cop- it would add to our case if one of us wanted to claim doctor later on.
We wouldn’t be giving them any real new evidence, so they’d have to base their votes more on Day 1 activities- and day 1 has been good to us!

Cons- It would probably mean a longer game (the longer the game, the greater the chance we’ll slip up).
We don’t know how elvis_knits is gonna make the morning post, or if she notifies doctors when they successfully protect someone. If she gives too much information it would break this strategy- if it’s a simple “No one died” with no explanation then it would work.

It’s risky- but the most obviously townie players (I’m thinking Belvedere and maybe AndyTony) are also among the most active... and it’d be a shame to kill them too quick. Much more fun to manipulate them and twist them all in knots! I reckon we can get a miss-lynch tomorrow, and if we can then kill the power role at night two that would be awesome. What do you reckon? There could be flaws I haven't thought of, or a better choice."

Didn't quite turn out how I'd hoped The last couple of days were the most fun. And swapping out Poirot for a rogue like Casanova was a mistake, too. I was going for subconscious associations.

Bionic being cop was a bit of bad luck, too.

[MikeSC6]

So glad it turned out this way, cause I was pretty certain that if you were actually the doc, AndyTony was gonna get me lynched.

I was trying to get Lester, Seraphim and hohum to suspect you and AndyTony at the end there- and for you two to suspect each other. That's why hohum got killed last night.

@bionic: Yeah, some bad mistakes there. It was a scramble just to try and survive after that day 2, to be honest. I probably shouldn't have doc claimed at all. And I was gonna originally pretend to have saved Belvedere on night 1 (I had thought differing slightly with your version of events might make it more believable) but there was some early suspicion of Belvedere on day 3 that I didn't want to derail. Probably would have been better to pretend-protect Belvedere.

[MikeSC6]

Oh, bionic- who did you investigate on night 2?