Newbie 736 (Game Over)

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Xtoxm was the first to confirm. (or at least, his name turned bold on the list first) Overeagerness is obvscum.

Vote: Xtoxm

Yay random votes!

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OMGUS!

Unvote, Vote: DIonized

Glad someone appreciated the irony.

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I did not call my vote random, although deciding to vote for the first person to confirm is about as good as random when there is no relevant information in the game yet.

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The problem is that you could have "randomly" voted for

anyone

and given the same kind of reason (first to confirm, last to confirm, first on the list, last on the list, etc).

That is pretty much my point. While not truly random, a vote based off of something like this might as well be since there was

no

information in the game when I posted. And if I had just posted a vote for Xtoxm without saying it was because he confirmed first, I'm asking you just as much to believe that it is truly random as I am now asking you to believe that my vote was not actually caused by some deep scum stratagem. I don't see how placing a vote based on someone's position in a list (or claiming to do so) is any more scummy than basing a vote on the roll of a die. I did not, and am not now calling my vote random; I am saying that it is not fundamentally different from a truly random vote at this stage of the game.

I note that you seem awfully quick to lay accusations based on something as minor as whether or not a Day One vote is truly random.

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It seems fairly normal to vote for an insubstantial reason on Day One; yes, it is slightly more scummy than attaching dice tags along with a proof of the randomness of the algorithm used by the forum, (which itself isn't truly random, only a good approximation) but in the same vein not getting night killed on the first night is slightly more scummy than dying, but most people who live through night one are not scum, and it hardly makes a good case against someone.

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i used FoS because i'm not sure
if he did the bandwagon because
he is a newbie, or because he is scum .

Xtoxm is one of the ICs here; not likely to play like a newbie. However, jumping on a bandwagon this early in Day One probably isn't very scummy since it's not likely to lead to a lynch this early in Day One. (I hope...)

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Hey Mod, I don't think that Vote Count is right... It ignores a couple votes, and LynchHimNotMe is on there twice. Ah, and since it looks like it might be relevant to me soon... Are we allowed /bah posts?

Also, fourth person on a bandwagon? Very scummy, especially this early in Day One.

Unvote, Vote: Sironigous

.

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Okay, that's what I figured, just wanted to make sure.

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Isn't it generally more appropriate to assume that another player is scum than that another player is town?

"innocent until proven guilty" ring a bell? I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch anyone until we have conclusively proved that they are scum, but the first assumption should be town, if for no other reason than the fact that if you don't know whether or not someone is scum, and you have no evidence one way or the other, there's only a 1 in 4 chance that they are.

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LynchHim seems pretty convinced that Sir is just the village idiot, and keeps pressing the point. A cover? If Sir winds up being scum, I would place my bet on LynchHim being the scumbuddy. Also, he still has yet to cast a vote one way or another; perhaps trying to stay under the radar and avoid being recalled as the person who started/jumped on second/third/fourth/hammered the bandwagon on that poor townie day one?

And speaking of staying under the radar, zindionne has made one post this game, which consisted of five words. Lurkers seem suspicious to me; if you have nothing to hide, why aren't you talking? Therefore,

Unvote: Sironigous

(who I changed my vote to on post 34, which you missed in the vote count, mod...) and

Vote: zindionne

. I still am highly suspicious of Sir, but I would like to hear more from zindionne...

Oh, and obligatory

FoS: Sironigous

.

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There are only two people here who could be described as "definite in their positions to lynch you"; LynchHim seems to think you are scummy but not enough to warrant lynching, and zindionne's vote is still random, as far as I can tell. He has yet to say very much, and not added even information, let alone analysis.

However, I will be very interested to see your views on the game so far.

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Argh, the wall of text...

i guess when you place your vote on
a player, it means you don't
think they are suspicious enough to be lynched .

The point isn't that he placed his vote on you, it is that he removed it three minutes later since you were at L - 1.

just one question, can people
that replace into games even be mafia ?
why would the moderator suggest to start
the game regardless of the three people
being replaced, if perhaps the scum
wasn't in the game yet ?
just me thinking out loud ..

Oh, and look at that! You just happened to have been one of the people who replaced into this game. Awfully convenient, isn't it? Obviously scum can replace into games, or else we'd have three confirmed townies at this point. The way in which you mentioned this seems scummy to me.

I'll live my vote on zin for the moment, though, as he still seems rather tight-lipped.

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EBWOP: I'll

leave

my vote on zin for the moment...

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Well, zin says he'll be busy this weekend so hopefully we'll see some content coming from him soon.

Unvote

.

However, Xtoxm seems to be lurking as well; he has said very little of actual content. Therefore,

Vote: Xtoxm

.

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Obviously, he was thinking what he said he was thinking, duh.

The problem is, he didn't say what he was thinking.

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My wagon si quite clearly scum fueled.

So who is quite clearly scum? Why is it obvious? You don't need to claim, but talking a little more would be nice.

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Sorry I haven't posted lately, have been busy and sleep deprived.

So, Porkens posted all his notes and PBP analysis; however, since he is of unknown alignment, it is hard to know what to make of it. I suggest we lynch him; if he flips town, we can use his analysis as an honest aid, and if not, it hopefully will give us some insight into who his scumbuddy is.

re LynchHimNotMe: the "don't look at this as a scumtell" only strengthens the vibe.

Seems to me that if he were scum, and thought what he was saying seemed suspicious, he'd try to reword it rather than drawing more attention to it. Of course, he might have done it on purpose with this aim... WIFOM.

At any rate, I think so far my own guess for scum this game are ZEE and Sir. Last time ZEE had a few votes on him, he posted a huge wall of text (post 72); however, some of the claims (ie. the voting patterns) were incorrect. He makes a few incorrect statements later as well; either he is being sinister, or he is not paying close attention; either is bad for town.

Sir is still under my suspicion for being fourth on my bandwagon, and this lovely quote:

There are 2 mafia in the game. What makes him a less easier target than I?

Why would a townie bother pointing out that there are two mafiates when trying to pull suspicion away from himself? It seems like he's saying, "Sure, I'm mafia, but he could be mafia too!" [/strawman]

Unvote, Vote: ZEEnon

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also, please tell me how the voting patterns i posted up were not correct.
i'm very positive they are correct.

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vote Xtoxm
vote DIonized
vote Sironigous

However, in post 58,

Therefore,

Unvote: Sironigous

and

Vote: zindionne.

As for other incorrect statements? There's your most recent one, for starters. IronTurkey points out another mistake of yours in post 88, and then you grabbed a quote from Xtoxm out of context in post 97:

I find Zee suspicious. Don't like his post style either, it's hard to read, which is anti-town.
Sir, what were you thinking when you said "that's what I think"?

..obviously he was thinking what
he said he was thinking, duh.

For context,

Actually...

Unvote

Vote: image

That's what I think....

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@Xtoxm: Okay, I will bear that in mind. I figured that with an early day one wagon a claim might be a little more than is necessary, especially since a lot of the wagon was due to you not posting much.

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So, if you want to get out of day one without accidentally killing a townie, wouldn't it be better to vote No Lynch than to hammer Xtoxm?

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I wasn't suggesting that No Lynch was a good idea. I in fact agree that it is a bad idea. I merely stated that

if

zin wants to get out of day one without killing a townie, and is willing to wait until the (non-existent) deadline to achieve this, would it not be better to just vote No Lynch?

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why is the case on Porkens being ignored?

The "case on Porkens" is being ignored because it is insubstantial... Unless I missed something big, your case against him is that he voted for Xtoxm who was lurking a little despite not explicitly believing him to be scum, and that he seems to be avoiding suspicion rather well...

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@Porkens: Just last page you were proclaiming LHNM as your number one scum pick, and now you say he's in the clear. What made you change your mind?

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(P.S. if you just absolutely hate this plan or hate me, hang me)

I'm against it!

Vote: Porkens

You told people who didn't like your plan to hang you... You can't say you weren't expecting an OMGUS. You in fact asked for one. This is, in my opinion, the least scummy thing Sir has done all game.

Also, this seems to be a bit of a false dilemma. It's not lynch Sir or Porkens, there are seven other people who we could lynch instead.

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Mod: Is vote count right?

Porkens 1 (LynchHimNotMe, Sironigous)

It is now >.>

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I almost want to hammer just to get through D1. I think we should give Moriarty a chance to defend himself before lynching him. He's gone from 0 to L - 1 in less than 24 hours... Wow.

Also, Porkens, LHNM, and Xtoxm, do any of you have a reason for this, or are you all pretty much following ZEEnon's lead?

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Porkens

- ... Dislike the early D1 ""case"" on image

Now now now, I never used the words "case" or "good" now did I?

ZEEnon seems to me to have been less scummy of late; therefore,

Unvote

. Add some token suspicion to LHNM for being fourth on a bandwagon without any reasoning.

FoS: LHNM

.

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Alternatively, we could lynch him and move the game along to D2.

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Well, lynching anyone puts the town at a disadvantage if they are town.

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And, by my count, we're at L - 1 again. I don't have much of a read on Zin since he hasn't been posting much; I wouldn't be unhappy lynching him. However, again, I feel we shouldn't lynch him before giving him a chance to speak. Or getting tired of waiting.

Zindione: I find his play contradictive, he says he hates day one's, yet he unvotes when his target nears a lynch, and FOS's me rather than hammer's me when given the opporunity. This feels to me more like a scum not wanting to step on anyone's toes.

QFT.

Also:

If I knew this earlier, I would of probably hammered you.

When the entire "case" on Xtoxm could be summarised as "You haven't been posting much lately."

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Much as I am interested in discussing LHNM's hammer, I feel it necessary to point out that...

4. After a majority to lynch has been reached, do not talk in the thread. Wait for me to get here and announce Night.

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Ah, finally dawn. I guess zin flipping scum is a fairly good argument for LHNM being town; also seems good that the bandwagon on Moriarty didn't go through yesterday. Time to go back and reread D1 and see if anything makes more sense now...

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Post 188

I think I would like to lynch Zind or Moriaty.

And now, they're both dead! Coincidence? I think not!
...Well, okay, it probably is a coincidence. However, late D1 he was going after Moriarty pretty hard, but still voted zin. Perhaps trying to get the wagon off his scumbuddy while making sure he was on it to look more town if it went through? (See posts 214 and 216)

Giuseppe was the second one on zin's bandwagon, placed him at the top of his scumlist, and seemed to actively try to get him lynched before the wagon had started.

@Sir: Any reasoning behind those FoS's?

Not getting night killed on the first night is slightly more scummy than dying.

FoS: LynchHimNotMe
FoS: image
FoS: ZEEnon
FoS: Giuseppe
FoS: Sironigous
FoS: Porkens
FoS: Xtoxm

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EBWOP: s/the wagon had started/the wagon had really gotten going/

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@LHNM: So you would've been a great NK, and yet you're still alive. And you, figuring he was dead either way, hammered zin before he posted anything, which both makes you appear more townie and prevents him from slipping up and implicating you as his scumbuddy.

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ehmm no, just the fact that a good case can be made based on my fast hammer, and i'm ready for it!!!

Hypothetically, if zin had flipped town, what would your defense have been?

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@LHNM: I'll buy that. I just wanted to make sure that question got asked, in case you knew he was scum and were just hoping that you wouldn't have to defend saying you were able to defend it.

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On zin's wagon we had:
*Moriarty, confirmed townie.
*Giuseppe, who seemed to actively try to bring the wagon to a lynch. This seems town to me.
*Xtoxm. I don't have much of a read on his vote.
*Sir, who joined the wagon after Giuseppe stated that he'd be willing to unvote if zin got replaced. It seems to me his initial FoS was an attempt to look anti-zin without moving him closer to lynching, and he later voted when it seemed like the wagon would wait for a replacement, who would probably give him a chance & justification to unvote.
*LHNM, who hammered after hearing that zin would be replaced. If he were scum, I expect he would have waited for a replacement, since everyone else not on the wagon would likely have been willing to wait to hear a defense.

Of those on the wagon, I find Sir the scummiest.

Not on the wagon were:
*Myself
*Porkens, whose last post on D1 was

Unvote, Vote: Moriarty147

He had early stated his aim of getting anyone lynched just to move the game forward; however, as soon as a wagon starts building on zin, he disappears. Of course, it could just be that the wagon went through so quickly that he didn't check the game in time to hammer.
*zin, confirmed scum.
*ZEEnon was says he would rather see zin lynched than Moriarty, but would still rather have him replaced. Similar action to Sir, although he didn't jump on the wagon.

Of those people not on the wagon, I find zin the scummiest.

Since zin is dead,

Vote: Sir

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@LHNM: To add quotes to your text, type [quote="PlayerName"]The quote here.[/quote] You can add as many as you want in this way. Of course, you need to manually copy the playername and text into the quote, which is less convenient than the quote button...

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While I do find Sir scummiest of the people on zin's wagon yesterday, I do not want to see a lynch this early in D2. Since LHNM seems prone to quick hammers, (:P)

Unvote

for the time being.

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@Xtoxm: If you have a good argument for why Sir is town, I'd really like to see it. Please do not neglect to post it because he is no longer at L - 1.

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Hm, that does seem a bit incongruous, now that I think about it. Gius campaigns for a zin lynch, but then when zin actually gets lynched, he tries to "save poor Zind from LHNM's idiotic hammer."

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Who previously

did not have a single vote.

Actually, Moriarty voted on zin first. And perhaps you are scum, and decided the townie points you could get by leading a wagon on zin would be more useful than a partner who did almost nothing. I agree this is unlikely, but not unheard of.

The point I'm trying to make is that you apparently changed your mind about lynching him after it became clear he would get a replacement.

If

he was your scumbuddy and you were trying to lynch him to look town, this would explain why you no longer wanted to lynch him.

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If we're going by "Innocent until proven guilty", the burden of proof rests on us to show beyond reasonable doubt that ZEE is scum, not on him to disprove a weak argument...

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Yeah, but "Innocent until probably guilty, or we just don't like you, or the game is dying and we want to move on to D2" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Anyway, I am willing to accept Xtoxm's defense of Sir, for the time being. I am interested to see how ZEE defends himself.

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When

we

use "we," we are of course practicing nosism.

In post 266, you make 3 points against Sir:

1. 1. He hopped on a bandwagon at one point with no real reason.
   2. He, like you, would rather have seen zin replaced than lynched.
   3. He FoS'd all of the people who did not vote for zin except for us.

1. As for the first, many people have jumped on bandwagons without stated reasons, yet you only go after Sir for this? We consider it, in fact, fairly WIFOMy and not a tell to admit that he had no reason for the vote.

2. Difference is, he actually changed his mind and voted zin. You did not.

3. Naturally Sir did not FoS us; the FoS was based on a fairly weak principle, ie. not being on the bandwagon, and as he stated before, he believes we are quite likely town aligned. The weight of whatever whatever evidence he has for this outweighed the fact that we did not hammer zin when we had the chance. Frankly, we would have found it more disconcerting if we

were

included in that list.

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I object. Don't hammer ZEE right after a claim; let him state his scumlist and PBPA. Then we can decide if we really should lynch him.

The real problem here is, if we say "We'll lynch you unless you're important," and he's vanilla, what's he supposed to do?

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@Xtoxm: I realise lying as VT is really bad. That's why we shouldn't put incentive on ZEE to lie in the case that he is VT. If he's scum, he's going to lie anyway.

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His scumlist would have been very useful, however, if he flips cop...

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Good game, all. Echoing the sentiments of Cephrir and Xtoxm, it is too bad the game was so short, but it still was fun. In retrospect, I'm quite glad I unvoted Sir rather than letting Sir claim; he probably would have been dead by D3 if he had claimed. (If we'd mislynched today)