Newbie Game 720 -- Game Over!

[insanepenguin02]

/confirm

[insanepenguin02]

Voting

Longshanks

because he likes sheep - VERY scummy IMO lol

[insanepenguin02]

Though due to the experience, I have to

FOS qwints and Vamparific

. Chances are one of you is townie of some sorts and the other is mafia of some sort. Just a feeling...

[insanepenguin02]

Oh, yeah I definitely want to hear a lot more from everyone before I would ever cast a real vote.

[insanepenguin02]

True - I was just saying I had a feeling. That was all. My gut has many feelings.. lol

[insanepenguin02]

I don't like it when you offend my sheep. I don't think Frank does either.

vote insanepenguin02

for his apparent dislike of my sheep.

Do you really think that an insane penguin and a sheep could get along?! lol

[insanepenguin02]

Yes, thank you because I am definitely not suggesting that we get rid of you two quickly just due to being vets.

Mag - I will

Unvote

as well to get this game started.

[insanepenguin02]

I generally don't do to well or say something incredibly stupid.

Very interesting comment, vamp.

[insanepenguin02]

Good questions, Charrat.

1) Need more info

2/3) The only suspicious activity thus far would have to be vamp's comment. It is still rubbing me the wrong way - almost as if you were not only trying to cover your steps for the future but also to try to confuse us a little more in the future. If we know that you "make mistakes" then you're making it so you could be forgiven in the future. I just think that it was an unnecessary comment that really painted a bad picture of you right off the bat. It was a scum move IMO. So if I had to right now, I would probably vote for vamp (Note: not in bold, not official).

4) We need to give it some time to get more info. If we end with not much info in the near future, sure maybe we should no-lynch but if somebody suspicious shows their hand a little, then there would be no reason not to lynch.

[insanepenguin02]

Anywho I

vote insanepenguin02

He voted early..than said he wanted to wait for more information before he casted a "real vote". Next he takes back his vote, showing that he really didn't have any interest or knowledge in his first vote... Well what if people had jumped on a bandwagon and Longshanks was lynched...He's seems like a fairly sketchy scummy character to me. As we lack in concrete information I think this may be the best course of action, lest we give the mafia scum free night kills.

Oh, yeah I definitely want to hear a lot more from everyone before I would ever cast a

real vote

.

0.o very good points

vote insanepenguin02

Whoa, slow your horses there ben and vamp. I know that it has been explained already and is leading towards votes being cast on vamp right now but I need to interject here:

1) My first vote was a RANDOM vote as we were in the random voting stage up through at least page 2. Like I actually wanted to vote for longshanks because of his sheep avatar...
2) Therefore, that vote really wasn't a

real

vote, as I stated. I have been wanting more information in order to make an educated, worthwhile vote.
3) VAMP, you are not making yourself look good at all. For having some experience, why would you jump all over an obvious mistake on ben's part? This added in with your remarks from earlier really makes you look scummy. If you were town, why would you want to vote somebody out so early without any evidence???? This, my friend, is extremely scummy. And now it seems as if you want to be voted....

Therefore, I will cast my vote:

Vote: Vamparific

[insanepenguin02]

2. While I think that the bandwagon that has formed against Vamp has grown too quickly, I think

Vamp and Benmage have sort-of made themselves into a pair

, and that might be the greatest tell we have so far, although a pretty weak one at the moment.

I don't think that they are a pair. It was just very interesting and shocking that vamp would jump on a vote and agreement with 0 evidence at all,

especially

after his first "scummy" post. Maybe he really does just make a lot of mistakes and acts stupid as he suggested earlier because these are a couple pretty bad moves to make so early.

But I think that vamp would have jumped on ANY vote or accusation in the means to get some attention off of him, no matter who made the claim. In this instance it just ended up being benmage that made the initial accusation, only to retract that accusation later on.

Now, I am not against giving vamp another chance here as the evidence isn't concrete, just INCREDIBLY scummy IMO. But at this stage, that is the only evidence of any kind that we have. I would not argue against anybody that would like to get more info before casting a hammer vote. However, I would also not be against lynching vamp right now as I have stated the reasons before - overall the most summy thus far.

[insanepenguin02]

sigh...i just wanted a reason to vote

And I still want to know WHY?

For town, it makes the most sense to gather as much evidence as possible before making a non-random vote. If you are just trying to find a reason to vote, that is again....VERY SCUMMY.

[insanepenguin02]

Well, sorry vamp - looks like your comments got ya lynched.

On a sidenote - with this thread being locked after MOD sees the votes, just want to say Happy Holidays!!! Time will be very limited in the next few days for me but I look forward to getting back to this after the next few days! Everyone be safe!

[insanepenguin02]

EBWOP: i only have 4 votes cast against me btw

It is 5 votes: magisterrain, qwints, t-rex, insanepenguin02, bemage.

votes 4 and 5 are looking kinda scummy to me

I voted 4th. How is my vote scummy? I of everyone here has probably the most reason to vote vamp!
1) He voted for me so that he had a "reason to vote".
2) I have been building the case on vamp with my FOS from the very beginning.
3) I have fully explained ALL of my reasoning thus far.

So mag, please fill me in on why my vote is "scummy".

[insanepenguin02]

for those who voted me im sure both scum were part of it...you'll believe me after the lynch.

Well, if you are telling the truth, then we made a mistake. But you didn't make it easy to just shrug off your activities.

[insanepenguin02]

And I suppose that since I was a big player in getting you lynched, if you are a townie, I will probably be the one killed overnight.... If there is a doctor, I could use some help!

[insanepenguin02]

*gets bored waiting and ties noose around my own neck and jumps off the platform*

LMAO!!!!

[insanepenguin02]

First off, I hope everyone is having a great holiday season and will have a great new year!

Second,

MOD: I don't think that we were mad or anything at you, we were just having fun. So don't feel that we are mad at you or were getting feisty. You're doing a great job moderating this game.

[insanepenguin02]

with what happened during day one I sorta felt damned if I did and damned if I didn’t.

Why would be "damned" if you didn't? There were others that could have voted and you would have only had a non-vote. That wouldn't look too bad. Now, I would agree that you are damned if you did because of the way you are backtracking now.

Had Vamp been mafia, the biggest bullseye ever would’ve been on my chest.

Why? We would not have thought anything is you wouldn't have voted.

Perhaps I acted to hastily in my decision making.

I don't feel that there is anything wrong with hasty decision making. I like a fast moving game also, it keeps my interest. BUT I only act once I have reason and enough evidence to act. Again, you backtracking here is kind of interesting as there really wouldn't have been much interest in your hammer vote at least for a little bit.

Your right i did act hastily, my fault.. i guess i feared the association, and the fact that there was only

one vote left.

In hindsight now it was a bad decision.. had vamp been scum.. well

So you felt compelled to lynch him because there was just one vote left?! I'm confused by this. We could have gotten more info from vamp, had more info brought up about someone else, etc. and didn't NEED to lynch him that quickly. I thought vamp was scum because of the things that he said and when he said them. He felt very scummy IMO so I voted, giving reasoning behind it. For those that didn't give much reasoning but rather bandwagoned, there should be some questions answered as to their motives.

For you, ben, you need to REALLY clarify why you are trying to backtrack!

FOS: benmage

.

I have to say that I am with mag here in that you are trying to portray yourself as being innocent and making bad decisions only to backtrack now after the fact. You are looking very scummy but I am not casting a vote just yet in order to get more clarification and more insight from others over the next couple days.

[insanepenguin02]

I don't think anyone was mad at all. I'm just not quite used to Newbie impatience yet.

Got ya! lol

[insanepenguin02]

Ben - Thanks for clarifying. I am keeping the FOS on you though for the time being. Reason for that is just the obvious: Backtracking (or call it what you will) is a scum-tell IMO. But, I am not going to read too much into it after my scumdar was flashing insanely on Vamp and he was townie. lol. Overall, I am keeping you on my radar but am entertaining other ideas, thoughts, analyses, etc. to get better reads on everyone else as well.

mag - I agree with all that you said and showed this in my post (115). But voting on this evidence makes me a little more nervous now after what happened with Vamp. I think that we should wait until more people involve themselves in this new day and we get more info from others' posts before voting. Just my opinion.

[insanepenguin02]

Actually, benmage was voted for by mag so he has one vote on him

[insanepenguin02]

I would LOVE to hear some thoughts from T-rex, charrat, and qwints

And mag, I am starting to get an odd feeling about you after I just went back and read from page 1 again. You were the first to jump on vamp and ben for their comments on day 1, leading to vamp's lynching on day one. You then were the first to jump on ben for his comments on day 2. It just seems like you are working very quickly to try and form bandwagons without tons of evidence. I guess I am just wanting some clarification if I could to get a better understanding of why you have acted so concretely and quickly.

[insanepenguin02]

well i made a mistake with vamp. and benmage

acted too quickly for me to reevaluate my position

, which, in turn, is why i started getting suspicious of him

Ben hasn't really "acted" quickly. He has made some stupid comments, as I have said also, but how is that too quickly to "reevaluate" your position? As you stated, it is almost like we are the only 3 playing so things aren't really going very quickly IMO. Therefore, I still don't see much reasoning behind casting a vote so early without much hard evidence.

plus, i dont really know how the first person to vote someone can be said to start a bandwagon. i gave my reasons for voting vamp and the 2nd and 3rd and 4th votes are the ones that made it a wagon

Well it all starts somewhere. It may not be a bandwagon just yet but you never know how things will continue. You have been the one giving your reasons and voting first. If its not starting the bandwagoning, then it is damn close.

by the way, who put vamp at L-1?

You may want to revisit post 99. Thanks!

[insanepenguin02]

ok, so in post 99 you give your reasons for having voted vamp. all i was saying is that your vote nevertheless put him at L-1.
i don't understand how you can accuse me of anything worse than what you did just because i placed the first vote on someone.
and benmage DID act quickly by hammering vamp right after that.
and then acting very suspicious afterward in trying to justify his vote.

seriously, theres no danger of benmage getting lynched right now. i have a vote on him because he has not sufficiently defended himself in my eyes. as soon as he does, i will reevaluate my vote.

MOD: can we have some of the other players here prodded?

I completely understand the suspicion of benmage (though I guess I wouldn't have voted and haven't). But I want to make it known that I have some suspicion of you as well as it is pretty crazy that you have cast the first votes very quickly. Now, once more info gets out from others, it could very well get even more suspicious about the other votes on vamp, other votes that will result today, etc. Just voicing my opinions since there isn't much going on.

[insanepenguin02]

penguin, i think we are just pretty much at an impasse at the moment until more people return

while consistently voting first on people may indeed be scummy, thats inconclusive until we know who is scum or not.

i misread vamp.

i don't think i'm misreading benmage, but i am wary now that i could be.

Agree

[insanepenguin02]

@insanepenguin
I have a question about a statement you made on day one, after Vamp had received enough votes to be lynched, and before the thread was closed.

And I suppose that since I was a big player in getting you lynched, if you are a townie, I will probably be the one killed overnight.... If there is a doctor, I could use some help!

I don't understand why the mafia would want to lynch a townie who pushed to lynch another townie. Could you explain to me what you meant?

I guess that I was just worried. After you just said this though, that it would be a townie who pushed to lynch another townie, it doesn't make much sense. It happened in another game that I had played though. The town lynched a townie and the one who lead the charge was then killed. Maybe to try and keep the town guessing, I don't know. But thanks for asking and again I was just worried.

[insanepenguin02]

Glad to see some more people!

[insanepenguin02]

When I read that yesterday, it thought that it was a little concerning. First, because your reasoning why the mafia would lynch you was strange, and second because it seemed that you might have been drawing the attention of the possible doctor towards yourself, which could be interpreted as a mafia tactic to stop the doctor from saving a townie on Day 1. I am not saying that is what you were doing, but it is a possible motivation.

I completely agree, Charrat. I was concerned though, like I stated before, and guess that I really didn't have anything to feel concerned about.

Still looking for more info from the others that have decided to join in on the fun again!

[insanepenguin02]

*crickets*

[insanepenguin02]

*chirp* *chirp*

So you lurking, ben? lol

[insanepenguin02]

Amen!

[insanepenguin02]

Also other than the nitpicking at me..anyone have any leads elsewhere?

I am still sitting on my case against mag. Still need more info on many others though.

[insanepenguin02]

really penguin? can you explain why?

Sure will: Posts 131, 133, 135. However, I understand that you have responded to many of the accusations though from your actions (not words) I still have a scummy feeling from you.

BUT, as I also have stated, I need more information before I can make a better decision. Thus the reason I still have not voted for you.

[insanepenguin02]

Also other than the nitpicking at me..anyone have any leads elsewhere?

Now I understand the want to not have the attention on you but do you not see the suspicion that I have of mag? It hasn't just been the nitpicking at you, which makes me think this is all you are seeing (scared?). Why don't you come up with your own cases so that we can have more from you, rather than an opportunity for you to join a wagon or anything. I find it a strange comment to make at this juncture since you haven't made your own case or much analyses yet.

[insanepenguin02]

fair enough i suppose. though im just not certain i understand why my actions are scummier than anyone else's.
placing the first vote on someone in day 1 is entirely different than placing the first vote on someone in day 2.

but oh well.

Mag - I have heard your defense numerous times, no need to keep repeating it. It seems like the more I mention you (even though I didn't attack you), the more you reiterate, and then the more reason I have for staying focused on you. AGAIN - I am waiting for more.

[insanepenguin02]

Does anyone have any theories as to why LongShanks was killed last night? He did not get many posts in before the day ended, and other than a small disagreement with Ben, he did not discuss much with anyone. Maybe he was just a random pick, or maybe he was chosen because he was one of the few players not to vote to lynch Vamp, making him look more townish?

On LongShanks, like you said, the only real comments that he made before being killed was a minor disagreement with benmage back on page 4. Those were his last posts... It's hard to tell from so little information that it is kind of frustrating! Perhaps it was due to disagreeing with a scum, not being active so he was an easy kill... I don't know.

I am going to re-ask the questions I posted on Day 1, give people a chance to answer who didn't, and see who changed their answers and why.

1. At this moment, are there any players that you believe are town? If so, why?
2. At this moment, are there any players that you suspect are mafia? If so, why?.
3. How would you choose who to lynch today if you do not yet have any suspicions of who may be mafia?
4. Would you consider vote for no-lynching today? Why or why not?

1) Town: If I had to say anybody right now, it would be

Charrat

. For asking these questions he is trying to get information out into the open, encourage participation, and get people discussing the game and its possibilities. All others are just speculation.

2) Mafia:

Mag

- for reasons stated earlier; Slight possibility of

benmage

but for now, I still need to see more from him. I am still surprised at the weird, quick suspicion of me on day 1 that was a little scummy. And lastly I would say

Azhrei

due to just a couple comments that he has made in his last few posts:

I'm, still here! Sorry, I just forget to check this game sometimes.

1. Nope, except maybe penguin, cos he seems to want to help.

2. Maybe benmage or magis, for the reasons earlier stated, but im not sure.

3. T-Rex, if I had to, cos he's been the mst inactive.

4. Hell no, we needa at least try and get scum.

Seems to me that he is lurking a little. Making posts here and there just to seem active enough. Also, his answers above are VERY vague and follow the current trend to the t. Me being town is the outlook of just about everyone right now. Ben and mag have been the only ones looked at as being scum. T-Rex has barely even posted, making him an easy SCUM kill. And hardly any real reason to not vote no lynch. Could you explain a little more and provide some analysis please?

3) I would not choose anyone right now, reason for my no vote currently. There just isn't enough evidence out there yet.

4) Absolutely not. I want to drag this day out as long as possible and/or needed to get people to discuss in here. If us that are active vote for a no lynch, we are giving the possibly lurking scum the easy kills. So I vote on continuing this until we either get replacements, get people talking, etc.

[insanepenguin02]

qwints - Other than your vote on Vamp, what else do you think? You said yourself that lurking is anti-town/pro-scum. So are you lurking, busy, or what? Please answer Charrat's and my questions.

[insanepenguin02]

t-rex: What do you think about benmage now? Why are you not as active? You stated that you don't understand the ben hate so who would be a person that you would lean towards being scum right now? If you could also answer the questions presented by Charrat again and these questions it would be helpful.

[insanepenguin02]

1.lost
2.lost
3.lost
4. keep the day for sure, i feel if we are unsuccessful today, and without a doctor save or roleblock(if possible) were doomed with a double town deathblow.

i'm really unsure..need more information from all.

Charrat has proposed these questions.. but thats all, more needed from azhrei, qwints and t-rex for sure.

Wow. Weak IMO. You can read into some of these people's posts at least a little bit in order to at least post an opinion on something here. Are you trying to keep in all of your opinions or what? Don't want to give out too much info?

[insanepenguin02]

For everything that you have said and done in these two days of the game, I really have to

Vote: benmage

. You are very much sounding like a noob mafia IMO. From your quick actions at the start of day 2, your hammer vote of vamp, your misunderstanding of random voting (ex: my random vote and qwint's), and now the quick vote on qwints after he offered some evidence and a case against you. (I think I may be missing some info as well but this seems like a good enough list of reasons that I can think of w/out rereading)

[insanepenguin02]

to penguin...lol...i'm sorry but its difficult to keep my composure reading that post.. and its fine, this game is really dragging compared to the fast pace style i'm use to so.. it seems success in this game is not posting(that really sucks)

It is unfortunate that not everyone is participating but hopefully that changes.

MOD: Could you prod T-Rex or do you know why he is gone?

I look forward to more info from Azhrei and qwints, know that mag and you will continue posting (unless you die), and hope Charrat continues his activity even more. The game is dragging but as long as we continue being active, there shouldn't be much problem and then we can see who is just lurking.

And do you want to be voted for, ben? What was that last comment for other than telling us how many more votes for you til you die?

[insanepenguin02]

Well, it is down to qwints, Charrat, and T-Rex for votes. I am perfectly fine with letting BM hang out to dry, claim, and we all hopefully get more info because of drawing it out.

And also, we need to keep in mind the possible roles that we have in this set-up as well:

Setup:
This game uses the 9-player setup called F11, which consists of four possibilities:

* 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.
* 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies.
* 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies.
* 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Townies.

So far we have had 2 Normal Townies killed. This leaves two Mafia and five townies of some kind. Any thoughts?

[insanepenguin02]

NOBODY HAMMER UNTIL BENMAGE CLAIMS. WE'RE ONE VOTE AWAY FROM A LYNCH.

is that suppose to be a joke?

So what is it, ben?

[insanepenguin02]

While we wait, I put together a little voting analysis:

Azhrei: 22 posts total

Post 25: Vote Erato - random? not quite sure...
Post 69: Unvote Erato
Post 73: FOS Vamparific
-end of Day 1 at Post 106-
Post 196: Vote: Benmage

Benmage: 23 posts total (started at Post 70)

Started as Erato from Post 1 - Post 68
(Erato: 3 posts total)
(Post 18: Vote Azhrei - random)
Post 71: Vote IP02
Post 86: Unvote IP02
Post 92: Vote Vamp
-end of Day 1 at Post 106-
Post 183: Vote qwints
Post 190: Unvote qwints and Vote mag

Charrat: 9 posts total

Post 17: Vote IP02 - random
Post 88: Unvote IP02

insanepenguin02: 43 posts total

Post 21: Vote Longshanks - random
Post 22: FOS qwints, FOS Vamp
Post 46: Unvote Longshanks
Post 83: Vote Vamp
-end of Day 1 at Post 106-
Post 115: FOS Benmage
Post 185: Vote Benmage

Longshanks: 6 posts total

Post 30: Vote IP02 - random
Post 47: Unvote IP02

magisterrain: 33 posts total

Post 19: Vote T-Rex - random
Post 45: Unvote T-Rex
Post 65: FOS Vamp
Post 75: Vote Vamp
-end of Day 1 at Post 106-
Post 110: FOS Benmage
Post 112: Vote Benmage

qwints: 9 posts total

Post 16: Vote Vamp - random
Post 26: Unvote Vamp and Vote Azhrei
Post 79: Vote Vamp
-end of Day 1 at Post 106-
Post 182: HOS Benmage

T-Rex: 6 posts total

Post 20: Vote Vamp - random
Post 52: Unvote Vamp
Post 82: Vote Vamp

Vamparific: 14 posts total

Post 72: Vote IP02
Post 78: Unvote IP02

[insanepenguin02]

Day 1

Vamparific:

Voted by:

1-qwints, 2-T-Rex,

1-mag, 2-qwints, 3-T-Rex, 4-IP02, 5-benmage

insanepenguin02:

Voted by:

1-Charrat, 2-Longshanks, 2-Benmage, 3-Vamp

Azhrei:

Voted by:

1-Erato

, 2-qwints

T-Rex:

Voted by:

1-mag

Longshanks:

Voted by:

1-IP02

Erato:

Voted by:

1-Azhrei

Italics

= Later Unvoted
The number means that at that time, that was the number of vote that they cast.

[insanepenguin02]

Day 2

Benmage:

Voted by: 1-mag, 2-IP02, 3-Azhrei

qwints:

Voted by:

1-Benmage

magisterrain:

Voted by: 1-Benmage

Italics

= Later Unvoted
The number means that at that time, that was the number of vote that they cast.[/quote]

[insanepenguin02]

well. here goes.
i don't know if this is the best strategy, but thats why im in the newb forum!

i'm a cop. i investigated benmage on night one and he turned up scum. ( i dont know if he is goon or roleblocker however.) he made it pretty obvious anyway giving me a window in which to pursue him somewhat doggedly.

so, we either have a setup with a cop and a doctor or with just a cop. if there's no doctor, im dead at night and it will be 4-1 townies tomorrow and you have plenty of info from which to pick i think.
if there is a doctor, please try to save me. the roleblocker (if benmage is just a goon) can only block one of us. either i will live without a tell and we will be up 5-1 or the doctor won't be able to save me and i will probably die and we will be at 4-1. 4-1 is our WORST outcome.


hammer benmage and sorry if you dont agree with this move, but im pretty sure it will work.

lets hope there's a doctor and that benmage is a roleblocker, then we would be up 5-1 WITH another investigation result.

Wow....I have to say that for some reason, I believe you whole-heartedly and I guess we will see if it is a wise move or not.

This means that we are between two scenarios then:

• 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.
  
• 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies.

By hammering and lynching benmage, we will almost surely be able to tell exactly what scenario it is and I think that this would be to the benefit of the town overall. Bold move mag but I think that it should work out IMO.

[insanepenguin02]

Who do you two think the other scum is?

Well, after the long layoff in the game, I have been thinking:

I am very suspicious of Charrat - activity level has been actually pretty low after I counted it all up. And the only activity that he seems to be showing is to ask the 4 questions that we have all been answering. IMO this could be a way for scum to get the town's general feelings and act appropriately. Thoughts?

[insanepenguin02]

I still don't understand this claim? AM i suppose to claim my role? or claim how many votes left to lynch me (which seems like an obvious one) please elaborate.

Claim means to claim what role you are if it will help your case (and I suppose the town's case).

[insanepenguin02]

Alright. New day ready to go. First though: Any investigation info????

[insanepenguin02]

i'm a cop. i investigated benmage on night one and he turned up scum. ( i dont know if he is goon or roleblocker however.) he made it pretty obvious anyway giving me a window in which to pursue him somewhat doggedly.

so, we either have a setup with a cop and a doctor or with just a cop. if there's no doctor, im dead at night and it will be 4-1 townies tomorrow and you have plenty of info from which to pick i think.
if there is a doctor, please try to save me. the roleblocker (if benmage is just a goon) can only block one of us. either i will live without a tell and we will be up 5-1 or the doctor won't be able to save me and i will probably die and we will be at 4-1. 4-1 is our WORST outcome.

And so it looks like you're a cop, mag. Being that ben ended up being scum and we haven't had a counter claim, I think it is pretty clear. Also, if there is a doctor in the game, he would still be here as qwints was just vanilla.

I would love to hear some things from our replacement and hope that Azhreil, Charrat, and everyone else can chime in here on our new day!

[insanepenguin02]

EBWOP - I guess that was "everyone else". lol

[insanepenguin02]

i investigated t-rex and didn't get a result.
i dont know if that means he's innocent or if i got roleblocked however.
is there a doctor? if there is there's a roleblocker. otherwise im pretty sure trex is innocent and there's no doctor.

i think i would have been told he was innocent though, so i think i was roleblocked. they tried to go after the doctor and missed. the doctor protected me probably, but it didnt really matter. id really like to hear from t-rex's replacement right now

With no result, I think that it is comfortable to say that we have a doctor and a roleblocker then.

It is a real shame that T-Rex did not post much more than he did so we would have more to go on. It is interesting that his only post on all of Day 2 was one that came to the defense of Benmage. In fact, in the 6 total posts from T-Rex, he defended Benmage in the last three.

He is looking pretty bad in my eyes.

I can't wait to get jayfin's opinions on what has happened so far.

Very good analysis, Charrat. This really doesn't help jay out as his predecessor didn't paint a good picture while he was here.

Anyways, its obvious that we are in this setup:
1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.

It SHOULD be obvious, anyways.

Anyways, I think we can safely say Mag is town.

That leaves 1 mafia out of:
jayfin3, Azhrei, insanepenguin02, Charrat

1 of us is Doctor. They should NOT claim until necessary, becauese the minute they claim, they can be roleblocked, and the cop killed.

Also, Doctor should be on Cop every night from now on. Dont use WIFOM. Just be on Cop.

Welcome jay! Glad that you are already more active than T-Rex was!

So I think we are all in agreement here:
Cop - mag
Mafia Roleblocker and Doctor left as well as two Vanilla Townies.

Now I am getting a gut feeling of something here:
With T-Rex's scummy actions and defenses of Ben, I already have a bad feeling about jay/rex's character. But I have a feeling that jay's first move, after reading how the game had gone, was to roleblock mag, our cop. I do not have any evidence what-so-ever so take this for what it is. I still have a little suspicion of Charrat for posting the questions to gather the town's consensus, my suspicion of Azhrei is dropping as I don't feel that he has toed the line as much as it was made out to be and his defense was pretty sound just now.

So

FOS: jayfin

- Thoughts?

[insanepenguin02]

I would also say not to claim yet ONLY because whoever the mafia is will end up claiming to be one of the town roles. So we would end up with, lets say, two doctors. I suppose that we could then figure out who is lying but it might take a day and a possible mis-kill.

However, that is the only reason that I see not to. But I think we could still win even if we did mass claim.

[insanepenguin02]

Charrat, I feel comfortable with a vote as well, after hearing his, IMO, failed continued accusations against Azhrei. So:

VOTE: jayfin3

.

HOWEVER< I must say this:

To mag and Azhrei, you must have some very good reasoning and a case if you choose to hammer jayfin. If you do not and you just choose to hammer, I will be STRONGLY looking into eveyrthing you have said in the past as it will not look very good, no matter what jay comes out to be. I still want there to be some discussion as we still have some time to come to a final decision. So let's take that time.

[insanepenguin02]

So what does everyone else think then?

[insanepenguin02]

Ok, Azhrei you seem to be avoiding my accusation. Maybe I just wasn't clear.

My case against Azhrei is this:
1)He avoided taking the spotlight D1, by either hammering Vampirific, or stalling the lynch on Vampirific, both of which he would have reasons to do:

a)Hammering Vampirific: Azhrei states that his "instincts and my logic tell me he is scum", yet he won't hammer,

even though there are 4 votes on Vampirific already, presumabley from people who feel the same way.

. I don't understand the hesistation to hammer. it's not rushing the game, everyone has already stated how they feel.
And then,

if you still felt like hammering was too quick, why didn't you tell people to back off of Vampirific's lynch?

b)Getting Vamp off of L-1: If you felt so strongly about not rushing the game (which is what you are claiming), why not tell people to back off of Vampirific for the moment?? Clearly, what you are doing here, is avoiding the hammer (and attention), and letting someone else take it. In this case, it was your mafia partner (unlucky)

As Azhrei has stated, he is a noob, like most of us here so I start just with that. Now a) Azhrei not hammering Vamp looks very much to me that he just wasn't very convinced by the evidence that Vamp was scummy. We all were going off of just a couple things that Vamp said and, in hindsight, was a mistake for us to jump all over the seeminly scummy comments of Vamp. I see Azhrei as being cautious with that. And b) As a noob, I don't know if that would be a great thing for him to do as it may have come across as him trying to get attention off a scum buddy. I see this as also being cautious, not scummy, behavior. So this is number one of my reasons for your "failure" of a case thus far.

2)I know you voted Benmage, it's pretty obvious, and I don't see how I'd overlook that. Obviously i was taking that into account. The thing is, when you posted the post I quoted, it was a bit before you voted Benmage. I think that you figured out that since he was in such deep water, it would be better to vote him. Its called 'bussing', and it makes sense in a scenario such as that.

Maybe it is just me being a noob as well but I really wouldn't see him bussing his only other scum partner so easily. He didn't really bring much attention to it, didn't waiver, and kept the vote there from the beginning. I could see him causing more discussion if he were bussing him IMO. So this is #2 on how I don't think the case against him is working.

3)Both of your posts that I quoted struck me as being particularly scummy. I don't know, just that gut feeling. For reference, I'm referring to posts 89 and 168.

And #3, you try to build a case which is great. But I have to say that a gut feeling isn't the greatest excuse. I know that I use it and we all have these gut feelings but I can't count it as a GREAT accusation point.

[insanepenguin02]

Alright, I have been fighting this for a while now and think that I need to bring this up while I still can in order to try and get this more settled in my mind before we move forward. Maybe all of this is because I'm a noob, I don't know. First,

Unvote

before somebody may decide that they have been "caught" and hammers jay.

Second, I have to question the information that we have been informed of by the claims that have been made. Here's what we have total:

Players:

Charrat
insanepenguin02, Townie
magisterrain
jayfin3 (replacing T-Rex)
Azhrei
Vamparific*, Townie
LongShanks, Townie
Benmage (replacing Erato), Mafia Goon
qwints*, Townie

Now, we know who has died, 3 townies and 1 MAfia Goon. I know that I am townie so that means 4 townies and 1 Mafia Goon FOR SURE. This still fits every setup situation that we could be in:

Setup:

[*]1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.
[*]1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies.
[*]2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies.
[*]2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Townies.

And the claims that we have had now:
Charrat - N/A
Mag - Cop
jay - Townie
Azhrei - Townie

Now, I don't know if we can wholeheartedly trust mag, sorry. He first announces that he investigated ben on night one and got that he was scum. Sure, that may have happened, or this was bussing. If it was bussing, you of course knew ben was scum as you would be scum as well and wanted to bus him because he was REALLY not doing too well as a scum and you could do better by yourself. Then night 2, you claim that you were roleblocked and got no result which is very fitting if you are scum. And I'm just having problems accepting that you survived night 2 after "claiming cop". Here's why:

If we stick with the set up we are thinking, we have a doctor, cop, and roleblocker left. Why wouldn't the role-blocker have roleblocked one of the other townies and put the hit on mag, so that he could possibly block the doctor and kill the cop?

Thoughts?

[insanepenguin02]

In all, we know that there are 4 townies left and 1 mafia. What would happen if we massclaimed? Should we discuss the possibilities?

[insanepenguin02]

Agree, because the mafia would not know 100% who the doctor is. I just didn't know if a mafia would take that chance or not.

However, the idea of a counterclaim for the cop DOESN'T necessarily have to happen for mag to be lying. We might not even have a cop. This is yet another piece of the puzzle that could make it impossible for us to pinpoint what scenario we are in at this stage. I believe that the ONLY person that would have a good idea what scenario we are in right now would be the Mafia. If they are a goon, we are likely in this scenario:
[*]2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies.

If he is a Roleblocker, we could be in either of these:
[*]1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.
[*]1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies.
That all depends on if mag is correct or not in his claim.

It is just hard to put all of my chips into one person's claim that could be false and easily faked.

[insanepenguin02]

oh yikes...so insane isnt necessarily vanilla

Why not?

[insanepenguin02]

Got ya, mag. However, I am vanilla, not a doctor.

[insanepenguin02]

Well, jay - do you have any last words?

[insanepenguin02]

Man, this is a hard situation. I have to say though that I am starting to sway more towards mag being scum than towards being cop. The way that you have brought up how "I'm not that bold.", trying to make us think that benmage solidified your claim as cop before he died.... things just don't seem right. And this was why I brought my suspicion up. I just don't like how you reacted to this suspicion.

Vote mag

Yet I don't know why T-Rex would have been so inactive if he wasnt scum. Therefore, jay is still on the radar.

And without sounding scummy, I am almost wanting a doctor claim to help narrow down the possibilities. I think in the next day, that could be very helpful.

[insanepenguin02]

and to reply to the comment by somebody as to why suspect an un-cced cop??

Because there is a 50% chance that there is no cop, therefore nobody to CC.

[insanepenguin02]

OK. That was a bold move by me to try and get some info out of you guys in the form of reactions. Think me more scummy if you want, that is fine. As long as town wins, I win so I was willing to take a chance there. The meaning behind that vote for mag was to get some reaction out of everyone else. And that is what has happened, which is great! And I liked what I saw as it made me feel more confident about jayfin being scum. The goal was for you guys to think me more scummy but to not jump on it overboard by voting me (If this is unclear, I'm sorry - I'm trying ).

I like what I am reading from today (calendar day) and feel more confident that we would be making a good decision with lynching jay. I agree with not outing the doc as I don't think it would be to our best advantage. I hadn't thought of the possibilities that have just been mentioned.

With this said, bear with me townies, and DIE SCUM!!!! Any objections to hammering jayfin???

[insanepenguin02]

Azhrei, I know. that is why I want some more info, any objections, any ideas from others because I am still not 100% on jay. However, his threats and scare tactics that he has just tried to push onto me really don't help his case. But by fishing, I knew that I was going to get some slack - I am perfectly aware and ready for that. This will give me hopefully some more info to go off of, honestly. I guess that desperate times call for desperate measures but I want to make sure that the town wins. And actually, I am not worried at all about tomorrow as I want to make the right, informed decision today.

[insanepenguin02]

No, the qustion is directed at me. And when I can sit down and find some hard evidence rather than just explaining, I will do so - busy day today but just wanted to say that I will be posting more in the next day or so.

[insanepenguin02]

Sorry guys, I am REALLY not trying to stall here. I have been crazy busy. Let me give some answers though.

[

You say it made you feel more confident about me being scum...How? You didnt' give one reason.

You didn't give any logic to your decision. You vote the claimed cop, then make up an excuse after we all get mad at you for it. You are looking very much like scum right now.

So here is the question that you are waiting for the answer to? Here is some of the meat to my suspicions against you, jay. The first is your case against Azrhei - I feel that the case is weak and IMO not the most realistic case presented. I think that a lot of it can be explained by him being noob:

Ok, Azhrei you seem to be avoiding my accusation. Maybe I just wasn't clear.

My case against Azhrei is this:
1)He avoided taking the spotlight D1, by either hammering Vampirific, or stalling the lynch on Vampirific, both of which he would have reasons to do:

a)Hammering Vampirific: Azhrei states that his "instincts and my logic tell me he is scum", yet he won't hammer,

even though there are 4 votes on Vampirific already, presumabley from people who feel the same way.

. I don't understand the hesistation to hammer. it's not rushing the game, everyone has already stated how they feel.
And then,

if you still felt like hammering was too quick, why didn't you tell people to back off of Vampirific's lynch?

b)Getting Vamp off of L-1: If you felt so strongly about not rushing the game (which is what you are claiming), why not tell people to back off of Vampirific for the moment?? Clearly, what you are doing here, is avoiding the hammer (and attention), and letting someone else take it. In this case, it was your mafia partner (unlucky)

As Azhrei has stated, he is a noob, like most of us here so I start just with that. Now a) Azhrei not hammering Vamp looks very much to me that he just wasn't very convinced by the evidence that Vamp was scummy. We all were going off of just a couple things that Vamp said and, in hindsight, was a mistake for us to jump all over the seeminly scummy comments of Vamp. I see Azhrei as being cautious with that. And b) As a noob, I don't know if that would be a great thing for him to do as it may have come across as him trying to get attention off a scum buddy. I see this as also being cautious, not scummy, behavior. So this is number one of my reasons for your "failure" of a case thus far.

2)I know you voted Benmage, it's pretty obvious, and I don't see how I'd overlook that. Obviously i was taking that into account. The thing is, when you posted the post I quoted, it was a bit before you voted Benmage. I think that you figured out that since he was in such deep water, it would be better to vote him. Its called 'bussing', and it makes sense in a scenario such as that.

Maybe it is just me being a noob as well but I really wouldn't see him bussing his only other scum partner so easily. He didn't really bring much attention to it, didn't waiver, and kept the vote there from the beginning. I could see him causing more discussion if he were bussing him IMO. So this is #2 on how I don't think the case against him is working.

3)Both of your posts that I quoted struck me as being particularly scummy. I don't know, just that gut feeling. For reference, I'm referring to posts 89 and 168.

And #3, you try to build a case which is great. But I have to say that a gut feeling isn't the greatest excuse. I know that I use it and we all have these gut feelings but I can't count it as a GREAT accusation point.

This comment has stuck out to me also. Why would you make the comment that it is not in the best interest for the town for you to die?? If you are town, this is an obvious statement and not one that needs to be mentioned. The fact that you specifically say this is suspicious IMO.

Good point. I get your point of view now.

However it is not in the town's best interest for me to die, even if I am not a power role.

Cop will only be roleblocked again, and another townie or the doctor will die. It will leave us in the same situation, yet at LYLO, where I would not be around to point out the things I think are scummy that Azhrei has said.

And I really don't like comments like these. When, if I die, do this...The only times that I have heard this have been from mafia that are about to get killed so that they can influence the next day still.

So, when (if?) I die, look closer at Azhrei, but consider insanepenguin as well.

With all of this, along with the others' observations such as Charrat's analysis of the voting situations, etc. lead me to in all honesty suspect jay the most. Mag is convincing me again that he is indeed the cop as he has been uncc'ed and it would have been a very bold move for him to claim it that early if he wasn't. Azhrei and Charrat would be middle of the road for me right now.
SCum = jay
Middle = Charrat and Azhrei
Town - mag and IP

[insanepenguin02]

Oh and sorry -

Unvote mag and FOS jay

in order to continue discussion and scumhunting.

[insanepenguin02]

Jay - After my little test and need to solidify my decision on mag, I also see that it is very obvious that mag is the cop. Glad to see that we agree there.

By no means am I "constrict"ing your FOS. However, dying is a part of the game that nearly all of us will come to terms with. I find there no real reason to point out "When/If I die" when making a comment. It seems unnecessary to me therefore I find it suspicious or out of the ordinary when somebody states it that way.

See this comment can be taken two-fold:
1) You are town so we listen to your words tomorrow.
2) You are mafia and of course we ignore you.

And I guess that I don't follow how I am "bussing" off of Charrat?? Aren't I suppose to come up with quotes that I think are suspicious? The fact that YOU make a judgment on YOUR thoughts on my case on YOU means absolutely nothing to me nor would I be swayed at all by it if I were somebody else.

I enjoy the way that you have reacted while again on L-1. I have to agree that the longer you are, the more the scum will start to show on you. But I'm not ready to hammer just yet.

[insanepenguin02]

Here's my list:

1)Scummiest - jayfin
2) Charrat
3) Azhrei
4) mag

And yes, I'm agreeing that we have come to a stand still. I don't see it as meaning anything (either scum or town) if I or Azhrei hammer. At some point somebody is going to hammer some vote in order for the day phase to end. This could be anybody: Town if they feel the player is suspicious or scummy or if they just want to continue the game along and get info through a lynching. Mafia if they want to ensure another innocent killed and/or to move the game along. with all of this said, I see that EVERYONE but jayfin has jayfin as their most scummy. Therefore I see no new info to convince me otherwise and will act on the one that I find as the scummiest as well. And I will

Vote jayfin

.

(please be mafia....please be mafia.....please be mafia....)

[insanepenguin02]

YES!! Boy that was a tough decision! Good job, town!

[insanepenguin02]

I agree that the doc not claiming was interesting. If you would have claimed, I wouldn't have looked so scummy in that last day!! lol. I was so skeptical of mag being cop because nobody else had claimed a power role so I was really looking to not believe it, especially after saying that you had been roleblocked, mag.

jay, you did a great job coming into the position that you did. trex was EXTREMELY scummy and you came into a bad position.